IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 March 2014   (all times are UTC)

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07:18
<vagrantc>
heh.
07:19
i was thinking of changing the default recommendations for ldm-server to have a desktop environment away from gnome ...
07:19
so i tested gnome-session in Debian jessie and was surprised to find it worked reasonably well in libvirt, without even resorting to gnome-flashback or anything
07:20
so, i guess i can leave it as is.
07:20Phantomas1 is now known as Phantomas
07:29
<work_alkisg>
vagrantc: it's using llvmpipe, isn't it? I.e. it only works on good CPUs?
07:29work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
07:35
<vagrantc>
no idea
07:35
i was tempted to switch to lxde ...
07:35
<alkisg>
What CPU did you test it on?
07:35
<vagrantc>
a virtual server with a virtual thin client
07:36
<alkisg>
Sure, but what host CPU?
07:36
<vagrantc>
both of which were... reasonably modest
07:36
i guess it's a 2.6 GHz quad-core
07:37
<alkisg>
Well yeah llvmpipe would work there :)
07:37
<vagrantc>
the last time i tried to use gnome3 with LTSP, it just failed disasterously ... so i was impressed
07:38
<alkisg>
The problem is with Pentium 3 or 4, and on real network, not VM network which is faster
07:38
<vagrantc>
the server was configured with 2 procs, 2G or 4G of ram, and the thin client 1 proc ... maybe 1G of ram.
07:38
is a network latency problem?
07:38
and aa CPU intensive problem... ok.
07:38
<alkisg>
VM networks can be 10 gbps even if declared as 100 mbps
07:38
<vagrantc>
i'll try it with some real hardware
07:39
<alkisg>
Anyways, I think you should wait until mate-desktop is ready, and make that the default then!
07:40* vagrantc got an impressively stupid response commenting on a mate-desktop bug
07:41
<vagrantc>
https://bugs.debian.org/737013
07:42
<alkisg>
Both mate-desktop and mint maintainers seem to lack good packaging practices...
07:43
<vagrantc>
which is probably more why it's not usefully in debian yet than any technical reason...
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09:22
<gbaman>
alkisg: what was the GUI written with for sch-scripts? was it hand written?
09:23
<alkisg>
gbaman: it's python/gtk/glade
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09:23
<gbaman>
ok
09:25
just got glade working last night on my mac
09:28
am liking it
09:29
nicer than using qt
09:29
only issue is
09:29
it is a pain to make windows guis with it
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09:31
<alkisg>
Nicer than qt?!!!
09:32
Me and Phantomas think it's horrible and we're planning to switch to Qt...
09:32
We're hoping unity 8 and lxde/razor-qt will help more apps switch to Qt...
09:36
<gbaman>
qt is a pain to set up with python
09:36
and seems rather poorly documented
09:36
especially for mac...
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20:36
<gbaman>
how does one install sch-scripts?
20:36
ignoring the fact that they are greek
20:36
on a debian server
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20:38
<Aaronboy>
Hi Noobie to LTSP here
20:39
is it possible to use LTSP with only 1 NIC?
20:39
<vagrantc>
yes
20:39
<Aaronboy>
awesome
20:39
<vagrantc>
!proxydhcp
20:39
<ltsp`>
proxydhcp: A proxy DHCP server is defined by the PXE specification as a server which sends auxiliary boot information to clients, like the boot filename, tftp server or rootpath, but leaves the task of IP leasing to the normal DHCP server. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
20:39
<vagrantc>
Aaronboy: you'll probably want to look at proxydhcp if you have another DHCP server on the network
20:40
works will with smallish networks that use DHCP off of a little router box or somethin
20:40
<Aaronboy>
WOW..that makes me happy..We are using Vyatta and it provides our DHCP server
20:41
I want to use the Vyatta to assign the DHCP, shut off the DHCP service of the Edubuntu..and enable the second NIC to have an IP of 192.168.4.90
20:41
This is doable ?
20:42
<vagrantc>
yes, that's what proxydhcp is for
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20:42
<Aaronboy>
the reason for asking about one NIC is because DHCP as a second server..caused all kinds of chaos..and beat Vyatta to ip assignment
20:42
<vagrantc>
well, not sure i understand what you want with the second nic...
20:42
<Aaronboy>
Here is the setup:
20:43
<vagrantc>
a pxeclient will first look for proxydhcp responses, i think...
20:43
<Aaronboy>
ESXI running Edubuntu 13.10 installed with LTSP and two NICS
20:43
<vagrantc>
i don't know what vyatta is, but it sounds like it's your router?
20:43
<Aaronboy>
problem we are having is two DHCP servers..(Vyatta and Edubuntu..create problems
20:44
yes, Vyatta is Debian based Software/Open routing for routers..
20:44
<vagrantc>
so, you disable the dhcp server on edubuntu, let vyatta hand out it's DHCP requests, and you let dnsmasq on the edubuntu server handle the proxydhcp requests
20:44
<Aaronboy>
Vyatta gets beat every time when it comes to IP assignment..Edubuntu beats it and causing chaos..
20:45
<vagrantc>
i'm done repeating myself.
20:45
<Aaronboy>
Exactly..how do I disable DHCP on the Edubuntu..without removing DHCP service and breaking LTSP?
20:46
<vagrantc>
you either configure your DHCP server to give the right information to your LTSP clients, or you configure proxydhcp on the edubuntu server... see URL mentioned above.
20:46
<Aaronboy>
okay..
20:46
I got it..thank you.
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20:47
<vagrantc>
good luck!
20:47
<Aaronboy>
thank you.
20:47
We are trying to dump as much Windows as we can
20:48
<vagrantc>
this of course assumes you don't have any other network booting services on your network
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22:31
<ball>
Does ltsp usually offer Xv?
22:34
<||cw>
ltsp offers whatever the distro offers
22:35
<ball>
||cw: Xv is an X server thing though.
22:35
Oh, are you saying that the X server depends on the distro?
22:35
<||cw>
yes
22:36* ball thinks about that for a bit.
22:36
<ball>
Do distributions vary much in what they push out to the terminals?
22:36
<||cw>
IIRC options are X over ssh tunnel, encrypted XMDP, and "direct_x" which I think is just XMDP, the latter being the fastest, but least secure
22:36
most use xorg now
22:37
capabilities might depend on the client driver driver though
22:37
and also the application
22:38
<ball>
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the ways that ltsp differs from traditional X terminals.
22:39
<||cw>
ltsp is mostly a collection of tools and scripts that tie all the variable tools like pxe and ndb or nfs together in an easy to manage way
22:39
<ball>
It hadn't occurred to me that the stuff that runs on the thin clients would vary between distros.
22:39
<||cw>
it provides almost no services by itself
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22:40
<vagrantc>
there's no such thing as ecnrypted XDMCP, direct_x is login over ssh tunnel with session over raw X11 protocol.
22:41
<||cw>
I thought XDMCP was the X11 protocol?
22:41
<vagrantc>
XDMCP is just a login protocol
22:41
<ball>
vagrantc: So once you're logged in it's all cleartext?
22:41
<||cw>
ah ok
22:41
<vagrantc>
it's easy to get confused.
22:41
<||cw>
ball: yes, if you enable DIRECT_X, which is not the default
22:41
<ball>
I thought xdmcp was the protocol that let the xdm find hosts.
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22:42
<vagrantc>
it is
22:42
<ball>
||cw: Is the new default to tunnel everything through ssh?
22:43
(where new < 20 years ;-)
22:43
<vagrantc>
new as in since ltsp5 started in 2005 ...
22:43* ball nods
22:43
<vagrantc>
so, almost 10 years of ltsp5 ...
22:43
<ball>
As you can tell, I'm a bit out of date.
22:44
<vagrantc>
ltsp5 should retire after 10 years of service... really time to introduce ltsp6!
22:44
<ball>
I just tried X11 across the LAN here at work and it's not great for video. I'd love to try it on a gigabit switch though.
22:44
<vagrantc>
yeah, video is not exactly network-freindly
22:44
<ball>
What would you put into ltsp6 that isn't in ltsp5?
22:44
<vagrantc>
you really want to run video-intensive stuff as a localapp or even use ltsp fatclients
22:44
<ball>
vagrantc: video seemed much better over VNC, fwiw.
22:45
...but then I'm not sure the server was offering Xv.
22:45
I should check that.
22:45
<vagrantc>
VNC, NX, x2go all do some black magic to make some things more viable
22:45
<ball>
vagrantc: I don't think there's much black magic in hextile :-)
22:46
brb, coffee mug.
22:47
<vagrantc>
it's totally feasible to use other protocols with LTSP, although the defaults only support ssh, direct_x (ssh login), RDP and dare i say it, XDMCP (but please, no!)
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22:48
<ball>
I think X11 is probably the right choice, given a decent network.
22:48
I should test that though before we go buying lots of thin clients.
22:48
(we need the server anyway)
22:49
Which is to say the host machine, not the X server. ;-)
22:49
<vagrantc>
LDM_DIRECTX is a pretty good compromise, and is well supported out of the box (i.e. sound, localdev, etc all work)
22:50
can't say the same for all the others
22:53
<ball>
I should be taking notes.
22:54
What has to be in place on the host for the terminals to be able to connect using ssh Vs. xdmcp?
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22:54
<vagrantc>
ssh
22:54
well, openssh-server
22:54
ideally, ldm-server
22:55
that should pull in appropriate dependencies
22:55* ball writes that down.
22:55
<vagrantc>
this is on ubuntu?
22:55
<||cw>
ball: what were you using the play the video in your test?
22:56
<ball>
vagrantc: Potentially.
22:56
<vagrantc>
i'm most familiar with debian, and ubuntu's not hugely different
22:56
<ball>
||cw: Firefox, though VLC's probably worth a try for stand-alone media files.
22:57
<||cw>
as in, html5 video?
22:58adrianorg has joined IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@179.182.76.158)
22:58
<||cw>
if you want to be sure xv is used, mplayer with the -vo xv option is the easiest way
22:59* ball nods
22:59
<||cw>
it'll also complain in detail if xv isn't supported for whatever reason
22:59
<ball>
I'll try it.
22:59
<||cw>
mplayer is by far my favorite A/V swiss army knife :)
23:00* ball looks for a video file to play.
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23:02
<ball>
I have to go
23:02
Bye!
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