IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 November 2007   (all times are UTC)

00:26teacher007 has quit IRC
00:42MasterOne has joined #ltsp
00:49flopperl has quit IRC
00:51
<MasterOne>
hi guys, anybody around?
01:03plamengr has joined #ltsp
01:09
<daya>
MasterOne, hi
01:09
<MasterOne>
hi
01:10
too bad, I wanted to ask a question, but got distracted, and now I don't remember what it was ;)
01:10
<daya>
what happen,
01:10
MasterOne, :), haha
01:10
<MasterOne>
ah, now I remember
01:11
Is a dual or even triple monitor setup going to work on a thin client?
01:12
<daya>
MasterOne, I didn't get u , do u mean vga sharing or just logging in multiple screen in client,
01:13
<MasterOne>
one client with two or three monitors
01:13
with one large desktop
01:14
<johnny>
it seems possible.. with enough hackery
01:14
<MasterOne>
hm
01:15
isn't the xserver setup in the thin client root supposed to recognize the monitor setup automatically?
01:15
<cyberorg>
MasterOne, if you have xorg.conf preconfigured for that task, yes
01:15
<MasterOne>
wondering what it does, if it detects 2 graphic cards with altogether 3 monitors attached
01:15flopperl has joined #ltsp
01:17
<MasterOne>
cyberorg: can a specific xorg.conf be prepared for a certain machine, or does it need a separate thin client chroot for that?
01:17flopperl has quit IRC
01:18
<cyberorg>
MasterOne, it can be prepared and you can specify which one to use for the machine in lts.conf
01:18
<MasterOne>
oh, must have missed that one
01:19
how do you specify a specific xorg.conf in lts.conf, and where do you put this specific xorg.conf file?
01:28
<cyberorg>
MasterOne, sorry i cant find any documentation for it, but you need to configure X_CONF variable pointing to xorg.conf in lts.conf under the client [mac] section
01:29
<MasterOne>
what would be the appropriate place to save that modified xorg.conf?
01:30
<cyberorg>
https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml
01:31
this is the only thing google turned up
01:31
X_CONF = /etc/X11/my-custom-xorg.conf
01:31
<MasterOne>
/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11</filename>
01:32
;)
01:32
<cyberorg>
where do we get the handbook that is readable?
01:32
<MasterOne>
it's installed on the Edubuntu setup
01:32
<cyberorg>
http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ google
01:33
http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-client.html nice
01:34
<MasterOne>
the online handbook is not the same as the installed one
01:34
the installed one (using Gnome Help system) is far more detailed
01:39
<cyberorg>
MasterOne, heh, that is why many people suggest rtfm :)
01:39
<MasterOne>
yes,
03:30Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
04:23bobby_C has joined #ltsp
04:27mikkel has joined #ltsp
04:34martoya has quit IRC
05:01Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
05:20Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
05:22plamengr has quit IRC
05:22plamengr has joined #ltsp
05:27Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
05:55subir has quit IRC
06:09otavio has quit IRC
06:09burnerx has joined #ltsp
06:13kaminski-ltsp-br has joined #ltsp
06:52daya has quit IRC
06:58jammcq has quit IRC
07:05Q-FUNK has quit IRC
07:08elisboa has quit IRC
07:08elisboa has joined #ltsp
07:08elisboa has joined #ltsp
07:10plamengr has quit IRC
07:10plamengr has joined #ltsp
07:11MasterOne has quit IRC
07:24flopperl has joined #ltsp
07:31Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
07:52topslakr is now known as Topslakr
07:56makghosh has joined #ltsp
08:23Gadi has joined #ltsp
08:24prpplague has joined #ltsp
08:33RiXtEr has quit IRC
08:34RiXtEr has joined #ltsp
08:35burnerx has quit IRC
08:35RiXtEr has quit IRC
08:41Q-FUNK has quit IRC
09:04makghosh has quit IRC
09:32Faithful has joined #ltsp
09:32
<shogunx>
hi all. i have a colleage in africa who wants to add some HP T5720's to a LTSP we built for him. anyone know of compatibility issues with this client?
09:32J45p3r has joined #ltsp
09:35
<sutula>
shogunx: I have a half-dozen 5710's working fine...how much RAM?
09:35
<shogunx>
not sure. i will ask, but its likely a factory config. pxe boot on those?
09:35
<sutula>
shogunx: Yes
09:36
<shogunx>
great. thanx.
09:36
<sutula>
My 5710's are doing OK with 256M
09:36* sutula notes, that what may be OK for one person/installation may not be for others :)
09:37cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
09:37
<shogunx>
cool. the system we sent had several Sumotech st166's with 128M and they do the job just fine too, so I', sure 256 in the HP's will be sufficient for our purposes.
09:39
<sutula>
shogunx: If you hold on a sec...I'm asking someone with a bit more background in another channel
09:43
<shogunx>
sure, thanks.
09:49
<sutula>
shogunx: OK, so different processors, different graphics, everything's different, so my saying that the 5710's work fine don't say anything about the 5720.
09:49
shogunx: My source also tried the 5720 under Linux and it worked fine, so I expect LTSP will work as well.
09:50
<cflynt>
Hi - I just upgraded my Ubuntu box from Edgy 6.10 to Feisty 7.04. I'm guessing I wipe /opt/ltsp and redo the build to update LTSP, or should that have happened with the Ubuntu update? Do I need to get a new base LTSP/ltsp-build-client kit?
09:50
<sutula>
shogunx: However, it wasn't worth the extra money, and he felt that the 5710 performed better than the 5720. If your friend is buying some used, our recommendation would be to look for 5710's instead.
09:53
<ogra>
cflynt, you need to rebuild the client
09:53
cflynt, move the old chroot in opt out of the way and just run sudo ltsp-build-client
09:53cflynt has quit IRC
09:53cflynt has joined #ltsp
09:54sepski has joined #ltsp
09:56
<Gadi>
so, on gutsy, I just had to comment out a line in ltspfsmounter to get localdev working (ie. settingDISPLAY ito localhost:10)
09:57
when using DIRECTX
09:57
is that normal?
09:57
<cflynt>
ogra: Thanks. The big question for me was whether I needed to get a new ltsp-build-client kit - you think that the upgrade should have upgraded that for me. How will I tell what rev my LTSP client is at once this is done?
09:58
<ogra>
the upgrade will have upgraded ltsp-server which contains ltsp-build-client
09:58
Gadi, yes, known bug :(
09:58
<cflynt>
Thanks - starting the big rm and build...
09:58
<Gadi>
ogra: ah.
09:59plameng1 has joined #ltsp
09:59
<ogra>
sigh ...
09:59* ogra cant get sound on hardy ltsp in virtualbox ... seems something changed in pulseaudio :/
10:01
<cliebow_>
sigh...
10:02
ogra: so i can change sources.list and start breaking thingsd with hardy (non-produaction?)
10:02
<ogra>
cliebow_, well, the fedora changes are not in yet, its very likely that it breaks badly soon
10:03
currently its only the gutsy code with debian merges
10:03
and different packaging
10:03
if fedora needs to change anything beyond the ltsp-build-client plugin dir it might break
10:04
<cliebow_>
guess there is no rush yet anyway..
10:05
<ogra>
ldm themeing is broken as well ....
10:05
but beyond these two it looks quite good
10:06
the soudn stuff might be a virtualbox problem even ... i have no thin client around atm ...
10:06
<shogunx>
sutula thanx. i appreciate it. those folks already have the thin clients, and just want to know if they could make use of them.
10:07
<sutula>
shogunx: Our guess is yes
10:10
<cliebow_>
i'll send you a netvista...8~)
10:10
<Gadi>
ogra: do you have a link to that bug report?
10:11
<ogra>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/160420
10:12
<Gadi>
thx
10:12
<ogra>
beyond the DISPLAY stuff something is wonky with scotts token thingie
10:13
(nothing to do with -X thats a wrong assumption, but i havent found the reason for teh wrong tokens yet)
10:13
<Egyptian[Home]>
evening all
10:13
is there any plan to integrate voip to the thin client ala sun ray?
10:15plamengr has quit IRC
10:17flopperl has quit IRC
10:17flopperl has joined #ltsp
10:23K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
10:25
<ogra>
Egyptian[Home], if someone implements capturing client side ... there is no setup for that yet
10:25
(the capabilities are there but time and code is needed :) )
10:25
<Gadi>
ogra: /me wonders if this 'fix' works with DIRECTX, too
10:25
as DISPLAY is not the same
10:26
<ogra>
should ...
10:26
<johnny>
Gadi, thanks for that patch you made to th previous ldm btw :)
10:26
<ogra>
as long as the tokens are right
10:26
<Gadi>
johnny: my pleasure - it would be great if *I* knew better how to use it :)
10:26
<johnny>
that hostname| thing was awesome
10:27
<Gadi>
johnny: I was just copying what gdm has done forever
10:27
:)
10:27
speaking of dms, remind me to talk to sbalneav about the whole three password thing
10:27
<johnny>
hmm..i wish i had the money to afford to pay for a programmer for a few years.. his only job would be to fix my open source annoyances :)
10:27
<Gadi>
it confuses the bigeezes out of everybody
10:27
<ogra>
yeah
10:27
<johnny>
yes.. we've had that at our place
10:28
<ogra>
its inherited from ssh though
10:28* Gadi understands
10:28
<Gadi>
but, the USER needn't know they are using ssh
10:28
:)
10:28
nor how to spell it
10:28
<ogra>
no
10:29
what i mean is, set ssh dto ask only once and you have fixed it
10:29
<Gadi>
for now, Im gonna be lazy and change the line in ltspfsmounter to: env['DISPLAY'] = [conn+':6.0']
10:29
should do the trick
10:29
<ogra>
hmm, on hardy my tokens are equal ... and i can actually load a CD in virtualbox just fine
10:29
Gadi, no
10:30
drop that line altogether
10:30
it will just use whatever $DISPLAY is set anyway
10:30MasterOne has joined #ltsp
10:30
<Gadi>
but, with that line it works and I dont have to rebuild an image while people are working
10:30
yeah, but DISPLAY is not set
10:30
bec ltspfsmounter is called in the background
10:30
<MasterOne>
anybody here actually using a dual or even triple screen setup on a thin client?
10:31
<Gadi>
thats why you need your -X trick
10:34MasterOne_ has joined #ltsp
10:35
<ogra>
Gadi, intresting ...
10:36
for me it works only if i remove the line completely
10:36
but then it works with and without DIRECTX
10:36
<Gadi>
right
10:37
urs is a better fix
10:37
mine is a quick - no l-u-i fix
10:37
:)
10:37
<ogra>
and i simply cant reproduce the token difference here
10:40
<Gadi>
meanwhile, I think the latest gnome-screensaver does weird things. My thin client screen blanks on me every 10 mins even if Im not idle
10:40
lol
10:40
oy... even in the future nothing works
10:40
<cflynt>
It appears that the update didn't update LTSP. I did an apt-get remove and a new apt-get install and got a new size/date for ltsp-build-client. Running a new install now.
10:40
<Gadi>
cflynt: perhaps you meant *upgrade*
10:41
<ogra>
cflynt, did you properly use the update-manager to upgarde the system as we recommend ?
10:42
any other method isnt reliable ...
10:44staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:45
<iMacGyver>
ogra: were you the one yesterday that said there was an easy hack to the acpi script of a client to get it to cleanly logoff before shutdown? if so, could you give me a hint on the commands to cleanly log off?
10:45
<ogra>
no
10:45
i said it would be an easy hack to make the powerbutton shut down directly through installing acpid in the chroot
10:45
that will kill your session indeed
10:47
<iMacGyver>
ogra: ok, i have that, but not all the processes are dying on the server (eg gconfd, bonobo...etc)
10:47
<ogra>
indeed
10:48
these are application bugs, gnome upstream is working on it
10:48
if you shut down cleanly they should all go away though
10:48
<iMacGyver>
ok
10:48
<ogra>
s/shut down/log out/
10:48
<iMacGyver>
yeah...was wondering if there is a way to fake the logout before the powerdown :-p
10:48
<johnny>
it's easier to kill the old procs on re login
10:48
<iMacGyver>
through the acpi handler on the client
10:49
<johnny>
iMacGyver, i don't think so :(
10:50
<iMacGyver>
i thought logout just killed gnome-session, but i guess this isn't how it works?
10:51
<Gadi>
you could always tie the power btn to: ssh -S <socket> <server> pkill -u $USER
10:51
;
10:51
;)
10:51
<ogra>
eeek !
10:51
no
10:51
<Gadi>
lol
10:52
<iMacGyver>
tempting ;)
10:52
<ogra>
tie it to gdm-signal <whatever that needs to bring up the logout dialog>
10:52
<iMacGyver>
well ldm/gdm is running on the client right?
10:53
<ogra>
gdm is runnig on the server
10:53
but thats not the right command
10:53
what i mean is make the powerbutton trigger the logout dialog
10:53
that way users *have to* log out properly first
10:54
<iMacGyver>
why not just log them out for them :-p
10:55
ie what does the logout dialog do when the user clicks logout
10:55
<ogra>
telling gnome-session the right things to shut down the apps in the right order
10:56
but the ubuntu logout dialog is special here
10:56teacher007 has joined #ltsp
10:56
<ogra>
that would need a deep code review
10:56
to find out what exactly to do
10:57
<iMacGyver>
do you know what the logout dialog program is called?
10:57
<ogra>
its a patch to gnome-session
10:58
look in the gnomesession source package
11:00
<warren>
ogra, saw my changes?
11:00
<cflynt>
ogra - I used the button on the GUI to upgrade the system, and took a bunch of defaults. I'm mostly a SuSE/Fedora user (except for this one box), so Ubuntu/Debian-speak is slightly foreign to me. My next trick is to figure out where 34G of space went on a system that has no users...
11:00
<ogra>
warren, busy day i havent pulled yet (i'm building the first edubuntu 8.04 alpha CD today)
11:00
cflynt, if you used the gui all is fine :)
11:03
<johnny>
ogra, are the autologin and local devices issues required for hardy ?
11:03
<ogra>
??
11:03
<johnny>
to be fixed for hardy that is
11:05
<ogra>
local devcies will be fixed in gutsy upgardes ... once i found out why there are differences in the tokens for some people
11:05
its only that one silly line in ltspfsmounter that makes it fail .... thats not in hardy anymore
11:07
and i know only 50% about the autologin bug yet ... its clear that LDM_SERVER isnt properly set but there is more ...
11:08
<johnny>
with vagrant's fix it is i thought?
11:09
<ogra>
no
11:09
only partially
11:10Guaraldo has quit IRC
11:12
<Gadi>
ogra: did you test ur fix with directx as well?
11:12
<johnny>
sorry ogra, i wasnt' clear
11:12
<Gadi>
for localdev
11:12
<johnny>
isn't LDM_SERVER always set with vagrant's fix?
11:13
<ogra>
Gadi, works fine here in hardy
11:13
johnny, yes .. but that still is only half the thing we need to fix
11:13
please read the bugreport again
11:13
<johnny>
truely
11:13
i know tht
11:13
<ogra>
its all described in the first comment
11:13
<johnny>
yes, i read that
11:14
i was only speaking of LDM_SERVER not the rst of the bug
11:14monteslu has quit IRC
11:15
<ogra>
LDM_SERVER will be set ... but the get_hosts() finction is still broken/nonexistent
11:15
*function
11:23BadMagic has quit IRC
11:24BadMagic has joined #ltsp
11:26MasterOne_ has quit IRC
11:26MasterOne has quit IRC
11:33Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
11:58otavio has joined #ltsp
12:16zodman has joined #ltsp
12:20ogra1 has joined #ltsp
12:20ogra has quit IRC
12:20ogra1 is now known as ogra
12:23BadMagic has quit IRC
12:26scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
12:26teacher007 has quit IRC
12:27nubae has joined #ltsp
12:28
<scrapbunny>
is there any other script/program besides gnome-watchdog that will help clean up left over processes from improper shutdown?
12:28
<nubae>
wow, I am an idiot... I just deleted my /etc directory, thinking it was /somebackup/etc
12:29
I've now backed up to an older /etc, but there are some ssh known_hosts problems... Gives me the eavesdropping error in ldm.log
12:29
when a user tries to login a terminal... any ideas?
12:30BadMagic has joined #ltsp
12:30
<Gadi>
nubae: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
12:30
and, if you are on gutsy, you need also: sudo ltsp-update-image
12:31
and make everybody reboot their terms
12:33nubae has left #ltsp
12:34
<johnny>
scrapbunny, you're not the only one with the problem :)
12:34plameng1 has quit IRC
12:35
<scrapbunny>
is there anything I can so to track down things and shut them down? I installed watchdog and restarted the server but my lab is acting like there are a ton more computers running then really are
12:37
<ogra>
file bugs az bugzills-gnome.org
12:37
<scrapbunny>
i am thinking of switching to xubuntu desktop to help with speed but i don't want to leave a bunch of phantom gnome users hogging resources
12:37
<ogra>
*bugzilla.gnome.org
12:37
<johnny>
not like any of those fixes will appear in gutsy in any reasonable time frame tho
12:37elisboa has quit IRC
12:37
<johnny>
or in gnome itself for that matter
12:38
<ogra>
80% are in gnome i was told
12:38
already
12:38
so please file bugs upstream to speed the guys up and make them aware of the prob
12:38
<johnny>
80% of what?
12:38
the issues?
12:38
<ogra>
of the issues
12:38
<johnny>
yeah, i'm sure of it
12:38
<scrapbunny>
so what do i want to look for on bugzilla?
12:38
<ogra>
bonobo and dbus shall be fixed i heard
12:38elisboa has joined #ltsp
12:39
<ogra>
scrapbunny, the apps that hang
12:39
file bugs on tehm
12:39
<johnny>
fixed for 2.22 i assume
12:39
<ogra>
*them
12:39
johnny, indeed
12:39
<johnny>
yeah, but that's a few months away
12:39
<ogra>
sure
12:40
well, for that time use xterminator or gnome-watchdog
12:40
or write your own script ...
12:40
<johnny>
i've never heard of gnome-watchdog
12:40
guess i'll check that out
12:40
<ogra>
the really important thing is that upstream is made aware of it through users filing bugs
12:40
<scrapbunny>
i have gnome-watchdog, should i get xterminator too?
12:41
<ogra>
that shows them the importance so it doesnt go down on the priority list
12:43nubae has joined #ltsp
12:43
<nubae>
hey, my keyboard got stuck... thanks for that Gadi
12:43
I'm not on site just now, but it didnt work with just ltsp-update-sshkeys, so guess image must be updated too
12:43
makes sense...
12:45
if I have several chroots, do I have to do ltsp-update-sskeys just the one time and then ltsp-update-image --arch=
12:46
<ogra>
yup
12:47
but you can also use -a instead of --arch= its shorter ;)
12:47
<nubae>
ok ltsp-update-sshkeys does all chroots
12:47
<ogra>
right
12:47
<nubae>
ah cool, nice little tip
12:49
<johnny>
scrapbunny, i386 or amd64 ?
12:49
on the server
12:50
<nubae>
the computer teacher at my school resigned today because they found that admin part of edubuntu too complicated... the school asked me if an admin from a microsoft background should be able to migrate to this systems without too many issues
12:50
I didnt really know what to say, but the answer should be yes, no?
12:51
I've never worked with windows servers, but I cant imagine the admin issues would be any different
12:51
<Gadi>
ogra: Im investigating the LTSPFS_TOKEN thing as well atm - cannot find where it is set
12:51
ltspfs seems to allocate it and read it
12:52
<ogra>
Gadi, tsp-client-core initscript iirc
12:52
*ltsp
12:52
<johnny>
nubae, i think i'd disagree
12:52
<Gadi>
ah... mcookie
12:53
<johnny>
somebody with a heavy MS background and a lil *nix backgroudn't couldn't even stop me from re logging back into my old account at my old job
12:53
<nubae>
well, these were the complaints: problems logging on, problems with usb, problems with internet connectivity, problems with printing
12:53
<johnny>
internet connectivity ? never heard that one..
12:53fernando1 has quit IRC
12:53
<johnny>
related to ltsp that is
12:53
pritning, haven't done it..
12:53
<nubae>
heh.. well the teacher/admin didnt even know the difference between ip 4 and 6, nor what dpi meant
12:53
so...
12:54
<ogra>
he shouldnt need to
12:54
<nubae>
as a teacher?
12:54
I think its pretty important knowledge
12:55
<ogra>
it totally depends how your setup looks like ... i'D say maintaining a single standalone edubuntu server is way easier than maintaining windows
12:55
if you have a setup with multiple servers, ldap etc i'D agree that its more tricky than win
12:55
<nubae>
I have to agree, but the school had to decide whether to kick edubuntu and move to Vista or get a more knowledgable admin/teacher
12:56
after explaining the cost differences alone, they changed their tune...
12:56
<ogra>
well, as long as he knows help.ubuntu.com and learnd reading he should be able to everythig he wants )
12:57
<nubae>
yeah, agreed... but people from a windows background dont usually go to help forums/websites or read any type of manual :-)
12:57
<ogra>
beyond the two or three commandline commands you need for ltsp you can maintain an edubuntu server completely through the gui
12:58
(uness you step away from the default setup ... but then its assumed that your knowledge level is high enough)
12:59
nubae, well, we ship a huge handbook in edubuntu especially for edubuntu admins ...
12:59
(plus the server guide and the desktop guide)
13:00
<nubae>
yeah, the biggest issue here was that the admin/teacher in question wanted to use MS and windows products through crossover
13:00
<ogra>
the problem is that windows help is so bad that win people stopped trusting shipped documentation i guess
13:00
<nubae>
and getting that to work flawlessly isnt easy
13:00
<ogra>
it isnt ? i thought crossover would make everything easy there
13:01
<nubae>
in some ways yes, in others no
13:01
getting it installed yes
13:01
<ogra>
i hope you pointed out that he breaks the licensing by doing that on a ltsp server
13:01
<nubae>
oh yes... many times
13:01
not to mention they werent paying for ms office anyway
13:01
<ogra>
(unless you have multiuser liceses for al MS apps you want to use)
13:02
<nubae>
well, I think its just the radical move to open source that the teacher/admin couldnt take
13:03
people from ms backgrounds still have the idea that open source means unsupported and unprepared software
13:03
<ogra>
well, you can buy edubuntu terminal server support at canonical ... its even cheap ;)
13:03
<nubae>
really? give me a link
13:04
<ogra>
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
13:04
<nubae>
that would be a great plus to show the school
13:04
<ogra>
Thin client and cluster support $1200 (USD)* for 9x5 support (9h 5 days)
13:04
<nubae>
as many clients as one wants?
13:04
<ogra>
$4000 (USD)* for 24x7
13:04
sure
13:05
<scrapbunny>
sorry had to grab a class i am using i386
13:05
<nubae>
so if its connected to the net, you'd support it remotely entirely?
13:05
<warren>
ogra, how many thin clients?
13:05
ogra, or servers
13:05
<ogra>
warren, one thin client server ...
13:05
<warren>
ogra, how can you verify that I have only one?
13:05* warren evil grin.
13:05
<nubae>
man, that is cheap...
13:05
<ogra>
no limitation on clients ... (beyond the HW restrictions indeed)
13:06
<nubae>
is this marketed... this support, because its the first I've heard about it
13:06
<warren>
"My 900 clients aren't working on this one server. Help me!"
13:06
<ogra>
warren, i dont wor in any of our support offices, no idea how they make sure you only run one :)
13:06
well, thats easy they'll point you to the miimal reqs :)
13:06
<nubae>
heh
13:06
<ogra>
nubae, it exists since 2 years ... but i'm not sure how much it was marketed
13:06
<nubae>
I guess u cant have like 150 different types of hardware
13:07
<scrapbunny>
if i have a dell poweredge 1750 server with 3 gig memory should i be able to run 30 dell gx 110's as clients running gnome or should i switch to xfce?
13:07
<ogra>
the marketing team grew only over the last 6 months and currently focuses more on ubuntu-server i guess
13:08
scrapbunny, i'd add another gig and leave it as is
13:09
switching the desktop wont magically make everything better ... xfce will have different drawbacks ... i.e. there is a bug they dont get fixes where every user can shut down the server etc ...
13:09
you will get rid of one set of probs but face others
13:10
if you are very familiar with xfce i'd go ahead, but if you have to learn all the diferent stuff it needs from scratch i dont think its worth the effort
13:10elisboa_ has joined #ltsp
13:11
<scrapbunny>
that is what i was thinking but i am up to 19 clients and the system is running really slow. i think that part of the problem is the after school program not logging the computers out but just turning them off
13:11
<nubae>
scrapbunny, I have that problem all the time... zombie processes
13:11
one really needs to go through and see what processes are still lurking eating memory and cpu time
13:12
<ogra>
scrapbunny, does the server need to run through the night ... worst case just reboot it at 00:00 as ugly workaround
13:12* ogra ponts to sudo crontab -e
13:12
<ogra>
*points
13:12
<nubae>
or every couple days manually see whats causing the process overrun...
13:12
<scrapbunny>
ogra- the shutdown bug is why i switch back from xfce after it loaded as a purposed update : )
13:13
<nubae>
I had to educate the teachers that they cant open 10 instances of tuxpaint on the same computer :-)
13:13elisboa has quit IRC
13:13
<ogra>
thats not as bad as tuxmath :)
13:13
you wouldnt run 5 instances of it
13:13
<johnny>
i run a script at night that looks over all terminal group members and pkill's all leftovers
13:13
<nubae>
hehe... well, u should see the crossover stuff
13:14
<scrapbunny>
ogra-i have been restarting the server. that should force everything to close right?
13:14
<ogra>
johnny, why not just shut down the server at nicght and save power ?
13:14
<nubae>
the teacher was using paintshop pro through crossover and boy o boy does that eat memory and cpu time
13:14
<ogra>
scrapbunny, right
13:14
<johnny>
it's in use at night
13:14
<ogra>
oh, ok
13:15
<scrapbunny>
tux paint has been slow but ok, i just have to do a bug report that it will not totally close
13:15
<johnny>
we run our point of sale software in it, so folks often login and run it remotely
13:15
or run other finance reports
13:15
<ogra>
scrapbunny, do that please, i'll look into it in hardy
13:16
<nubae>
I've been using gnucash... thats really cool soft... very developed
13:16
<ogra>
i left the edu apps aside a bit the last release, to many ltsp changes ... for hardy i'll switch the balance again :)
13:16
<johnny>
yeah, he uses that for accounting
13:16
almost fully open shop here
13:16
<ogra>
what do they use ?
13:16
<scrapbunny>
i have gnome-watchdog but is there another script/program/command line to check and kill zombie processes?
13:17* ogra only knows bananapos ... but that seemed dead last time i looked
13:17
<nubae>
I found a very cool open source school reports system called CLASS
13:17
<johnny>
ogra, it's called infoshopkeeper
13:17
<ogra>
scrapbunny, xterminator from moquist
13:17
johnny, oss software ?
13:17
<johnny>
yes
13:18
<scrapbunny>
back on the crossover, i didn't think wine or crossover would be a good idea on thin clients. i might try a few things : )
13:18
<ogra>
hmm, we should ackage it in ubuntu :)
13:18
*package
13:18
<nubae>
CLASS is similar to school tool, but specific for writing reports for mid and end of term, managing classes, and student details
13:18
<johnny>
the subtitle is "Free Software with a circled A" if that means anything to you
13:18
<ogra>
scrapbunny, well, it puts some extra load on the server ...
13:18
<nubae>
scrapbunny, crossover works fine, as long as you dont rely on it for every single client
13:18
<ogra>
johnny, it does :)
13:19
<nubae>
ogra... about 10x the load of oss software...
13:19
<ogra>
i can imagine
13:19
<nubae>
openoffice uses 10 times less memory than msoffice
13:19
<johnny>
it has a few reporting scripts, a very basic web interface for reports, lending library, book inventory by ISBN, configurable buttons, running a tab
13:19Guaraldo has left #ltsp
13:20
<johnny>
we run it at red emma's
13:20
the original developer is still there
13:21
it's also in use at a local pub
13:22
as well as an infoshop up in montreal
13:22
<scrapbunny>
so far there are very few windows programs that i like better then the free options. my students love tux paint so i wish it worked better and closed on its own
13:22
<nubae>
what about gimp?
13:22
<johnny>
scrapbunny, so.. are you willing to pay for it :)
13:22
<nubae>
or these younger students
13:23fernando1 has joined #ltsp
13:23
<scrapbunny>
i have first through fifth grade
13:24
<johnny>
ogra, oh yeah.. it also integrates with a cash drawer , but our drawer is broken an we haven't replaced it
13:24
so i don't know if it really works after a year
13:25
we also want to do a more granular inventory system , especially for the pub around the corner
13:25
so we can estimate how much liquor has been used :)
13:26Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
13:26
<scrapbunny>
i am playing more and more with the gcompris
13:27
<nubae>
yeah that and childsplay is great
13:28
childsplay works better in terms of memory usage actually... and now it has more plugins (used to be just 2) I think its easier to use than gcompris
13:30
<scrapbunny>
how old of a child does childsplay work with though?
13:31
<nubae>
from 2-10
13:31
a little younger than gcompris in some cases
13:31
<scrapbunny>
cool
13:32
<nubae>
theres a lot of good soft coming out now for primary students
13:32
there it really blows windows away
13:33
<scrapbunny>
i was super excited to see that using epiphany instead of firefox helped with internet speed a little
13:33
<nubae>
have u got a proxy in place?
13:35
<ogra>
scrapbunny, you shoudl try firefox 3.0 :)
13:35
its immensely fast ...
13:35
saldy not 100% stable yet
13:39
<scrapbunny>
where would i get firefox 3?
13:40cyberorg has quit IRC
13:40
<ogra>
scrapbunny, apt-get install firefox-3.0 :)
13:40
but dont use it in production
13:46scrapbunny has quit IRC
13:46otavio has quit IRC
13:46Gadi has quit IRC
13:46klausade has quit IRC
13:46Topslakr has quit IRC
13:46F-GT has quit IRC
13:47scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
13:47otavio has joined #ltsp
13:47Gadi has joined #ltsp
13:47klausade has joined #ltsp
13:47F-GT has joined #ltsp
13:47Topslakr has joined #ltsp
13:50
<scrapbunny>
ok what was that?
13:50
<johnny>
netsplit
13:51
<nubae>
ah... I have one client that doesnt seem to want to work due to graphics issues, it carries a intel GMA 1300
13:51
anything special I need under XSERVER settings?
13:54
3100 GMA even
13:54
<ogra>
X_COLOR_DEPTH=24
13:54
intel cards try to start with 32bit by default which most of them dont suport
13:54
<nubae>
tried that... already have that for some other clients
13:55
also tried to set it to 16 bit color depth
14:00
<scrapbunny>
thanks a bunch for all the help, as always. i am off to try xterminator and firefox 3 :)
14:03
<johnny>
i'd like to see the code for xterminator
14:04
<BadMagic>
ok, well switched back to Xorg (using aiglx instead of Xgl) so I should be ok now. BTW: If anyone is using nVidia binary, use aiglx instead of Xgl!
14:04
<ogra>
johnny, i think its public in moquist's LP bzr branch
14:04
<johnny>
actually nividia doesn't use aiglx
14:04
it has it's own implementation
14:04
it definitely shouldn't use xglx tho
14:05
ogra, last i checked it was broken, couldn't even view the files
14:05
<BadMagic>
I had to set Option aiglx true in xorg.conf
14:06
<ogra>
johnny, https://code.launchpad.net/~moquist/
14:06
<BadMagic>
oops, all msgs supposed to go to #suse, sorry.......
14:06
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/~moquist/+archive for binaries
14:07
<scrapbunny>
ortuno3
14:07
sorry, typing in the wrong window
14:07
<nubae>
hope that wasnt a password ;-)
14:07
<ogra>
change it if it was :)
14:07
<johnny>
why does launchpad make it so difficult to navigate
14:07
i can't even find a link to src under code
14:08
<ogra>
johnny, the branch is just in fron of you with the link i posted
14:08
just click on it
14:08
<johnny>
i did
14:08
<scrapbunny>
no just a username
14:08
<johnny>
oh i had to click on the word main, not the name
14:08
<scrapbunny>
:)
14:08
<ogra>
yeah, thats the branch name
14:08scrapbunny has left #ltsp
14:09
<johnny>
http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~moquist/xterminator/main/files totally empty
14:09
no revs but initial, and no files
14:10
<ogra>
hmm, right, you should ping moquist then
14:10
even though its just scripts, you can just get the debian package and unpack it
14:12
<johnny>
sure.. if i was on a debian box :)
14:12
or ubuntu box for that matter
14:12
atm
14:13
aha.. the 2nd link had a way to get a tar.gz
14:13
yay
14:14
<ogra>
debs are just ar archives
14:14
file-roller should open it for you
14:14
or the KDE equivalent however its called
14:15
<johnny>
funny guy
14:15
# $Id: killing-me-mostly,v 1.7 2007/04/16 12:29:32 moquist Exp moquist $
14:16Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:16
<johnny>
i don't have to install that in the chroot?
14:16
<ogra>
no idea, never used it
14:17
<johnny>
it looks like an ldm rc
14:17
<ogra>
i guess it is
14:17
its the easiest way to kill stuff
14:21J45p3r has quit IRC
14:35Q-FUNK has quit IRC
14:38Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:45Gadi has left #ltsp
14:49zodman is now known as zo1
14:50zo1 is now known as zo[d]
14:52Faithful has quit IRC
14:54Blueagnes has joined #ltsp
15:08
<joebob777as7>
iMacGyver, did rebuilding chroot fix your issue?
15:11
<iMacGyver>
joebob777as7: didn't try it, running the gnome-watchdog now
15:11cliebow_ has quit IRC
15:12
<joebob777as7>
what's that?
15:14
<iMacGyver>
kills user processes when it detects the panel is gone for more than X seconds
15:14
it also looks to see if they have processes already running on login and gives the option to kill them
15:14
<joebob777as7>
gotcha cool
15:15
<iMacGyver>
i also made my own script to kill everyone at 8pm ;-)
15:15
<joebob777as7>
that should be included in gnome
15:26lns has joined #ltsp
15:26
<lns>
Wassup all
15:27
<joebob777as7>
lots of thin clients and no local devices lns. what abou tyou?
15:27
<lns>
Hey has anyone figured out a way to have global bookmarks in Firefox (I.E. shared between all user accounts) ? A teacher is requesting this and I'm not sure where to go. I can't simply make a script that makes a link to the bookmark.htm file but every profile dirname is different, so /etc/skel is out..
15:28
joebob777as7, sorry to hear that!
15:28
<joebob777as7>
lns, couldn't you change the profiles configuration file to point to /home/profiledirofsharedprofile?
15:28
shoudl be pretty easy
15:28
*should
15:29
<lns>
shared firefox profiles?
15:29
well
15:29
<joebob777as7>
yeah
15:29
<lns>
hmm..never heard of that!
15:30
the thing is, the students should be able to bookmark their own stuff too
15:30
<joebob777as7>
might work dunno...
15:32
<stgraber>
can't you just create a common bookmark.htm file somewhere, set the write permissions correctly and symlink all of the others to this one ?
15:32
you can easily guess the path to bookmarks.htm even if the profile name is random
15:33
cat ~/.mozilla/firefox/`cat ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini | grep Path | sed s/.*=//`/bookmarks.html
15:33
for an example
15:35
<joebob777as7>
yeah i didn't realize that it saves all the bookmarks in an html file sounds easier than shared profiles less chance for conflict.
15:37
<stgraber>
so you can easily do a shell script doing for each of your user a "rm" then a "ln -sf" to your common bookmarks file and that should be it
15:45scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
15:46mikkel has quit IRC
15:47
<scrapbunny>
hi again. how do i make sure i am getting the highest internet connection possible on thin clients? I know i had to do a bunch of fixes to fix the speed on my laptop with 7.10
15:51sepski has quit IRC
15:59zo[d] has quit IRC
16:05Guaraldo has left #ltsp
16:07
<lns>
oh man, sorry =) was afk
16:08
stgraber, thank you for that info, didn't know the bookmarks location was in profiles.ini
16:09
OIC, nm
16:12vagrantc has joined #ltsp
16:14K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
16:28Blueagnes has left #ltsp
16:29scrapbunny has left #ltsp
16:29richard__ has joined #ltsp
16:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, hey
16:30
the themeing in ldm is totally broken ... and i dont understand why :/
16:31markvandenborre has joined #ltsp
16:33
<markvandenborre>
hi all, I'm a volunteer for a local primary school
16:34
I've run an ltsp setup for this school for three years now, and there is need for replacement
16:35
there is one question that I had to answer "no" to 3 years ago that might have become a "maybe" or "partially" or "depends on the program"
16:35
and that is ... Wine and educational applications
16:35
how feasible is this?
16:36
<richard__>
markvandenborre, what are you asking?
16:36
<lns>
markvandenborre, it completely depends on the program
16:36martoya has joined #ltsp
16:36
<markvandenborre>
what I'm asking is mostly: how resource hungry and stable
16:36
is wine in a thin client context
16:37
resource hungry I mean mostly on the network side
16:37
there won't be more than 3 clients per 100 Mbit connection to the server
16:37
<lns>
markvandenborre, network bandwidth also depends on how the progam is made/uses animations, etc
16:37
<markvandenborre>
I see...
16:37
<ogra>
you can ignore the network side ... the CPU utilization on teh server will be your bottleneck
16:38
<markvandenborre>
ogra: dual quad core xeon
16:38
<lns>
ogra, very true in most cases
16:38
<ogra>
it will be more serious than the network stuff
16:38
<markvandenborre>
ok
16:38
<lns>
For instance, i have shockwave plugin running on a dual dual-core xeon 1.6 w/8GB RAM for 35 clients
16:38
<markvandenborre>
how ram intense is this stuff?
16:38
<lns>
when they're all in firefox, using shockwave (this is crossover office, but same diff)...the cpu is pretty much tacked out, but still very responsive to the clients
16:39
<markvandenborre>
I asked scott b at uds boston, but I didn't really make decent notes
16:39
<lns>
ram also depends on the program
16:39
<markvandenborre>
I knew he said something about decent cpu
16:39
<lns>
if you have 3 clients on a dual quad-core xeon i wouldn't worry about it =p
16:39
<ogra>
heh, yeah
16:39
<markvandenborre>
it's more like distributed...
16:40
3 per 100 Mbit link to the server, about 35 in total
16:40
<lns>
...?
16:40
<richard__>
depends on the app as well
16:40
<lns>
like 3 sharing a single 100mbit link each?
16:40
on a hub or something?
16:41
<markvandenborre>
two 100 Mbit switches with gigabit uplink to the svr
16:41
<lns>
ok
16:41
<markvandenborre>
35 clients in total, throughout the building
16:41
just checking if the specs for the new machine are somewhat in line with the optimum
16:42
for stuff like youtube on the clients
16:42
(wine is just a "happy if it is stable and working, nothing lost otherwise"
16:42
)
16:42
dual quadcore, 4 Gb ram, 3x146 Gb 15k rpm sas disks in hardware raid 5, dual gigabit
16:43
<lns>
i'm using similar server hardware and with all 35 stations running flash/shockwave stuff through cxoffice it handles pretty well
16:43
<markvandenborre>
my only concern is the ram requirements
16:43
is 4 Gb enough?
16:43
<lns>
markvandenborre, is this 64bit OS?
16:43
<ogra>
you need roughly 128M per logged in user
16:43
and i wuldnt run it 64bit
16:43
<markvandenborre>
ogra: I won't
16:44
<lns>
ahh, what's the fun in that?
16:44
<ogra>
just makes flash and friends complcated
16:44
<lns>
what about the new nspluginwrapper?
16:44
<ogra>
lns, you dont really gain anything in running 64bit
16:44
only for apps that really make use of it
16:44
<markvandenborre>
I'd love to put gnash on there, but I'm afraid the students & teachers wouldn't really appreciate that ;)
16:44
<ogra>
which are ... gimp ...
16:45
dunno which others but they are not really many
16:45
all others are just 32bit apps compiled for 64bit ...
16:45
<lns>
ogra, but when an OS is packaged for 64-bit they're all compiled for it right? are there specific calls in the code for 64-bit stuff that people have to use to actually make it sensible? (IANAP)
16:46
<richard__>
wouldn't it be best to install 64 bit on the server but use i386 chroot?
16:46
<lns>
man...i wish i knew that before i installed 3 servers..heh
16:46
<ogra>
wellm, you have to make use of the bigger variable length, the threading etc ... 64bit makes sense if you run a heavily loaded apache server
16:46
<richard__>
since he's using more than 3.5GB ram?
16:47
<ogra>
if youuse the ubuntu 32bit server kernel you can make use of 64G ram
16:47
<richard__>
oh ok how do you recompile to do that?
16:47
<markvandenborre>
ogra, others... I will be ruthlessly testing the improvements you guys made to the thin client experience since I installed this machine with debian stable in 2k4
16:47
beware!
16:48
<ogra>
richard__, no idea i havent compiled a kernel since i use ubuntu ... there is simply no need for that
16:48
markvandenborre, feel free to hunt me down if you find probs :)
16:48
<markvandenborre>
:)
16:49
<richard__>
i'm running an ubuntu gutsy server with ltsp 64 bit server. i didn't know i could use different kernel for i386...
16:49
markvandenborre, good luck with local devices
16:49
<markvandenborre>
ogra: any gem you created that I should really try and use/demo to the teachers?
16:49
richard__: how so?
16:49
<ogra>
there is -generic (the default) -server (up to 64G ram) -biiron (not sure but it can handle serveral TB orf ram and u to 64 CPUs)
16:49
*-bigiron
16:50
<richard__>
markvandenborre, i've had it hit and miss for me but i'm using gutsy... so mighrt be smoothly for you
16:50
<ogra>
oh and i forgot -386 for small footprints
16:50
<lns>
"Wouldn't it be sweet to bag one of those Gibsons? OOoooOO!" lol
16:50
<richard__>
ok i'll look into it ogra
16:50
<ogra>
richard__, apt-cache search linux-image ;)
16:50
<richard__>
thx ogra
16:52* markvandenborre is looking into user management tools... ldap integration in particular, but also student screen overview & stuff...
16:53
<ogra>
iTalc :)
16:55
<markvandenborre>
that's the stuff I need to read upon
16:56
thx ogra!
16:56Q-FUNK has quit IRC
16:57bobby_C has quit IRC
17:00vagrantc has quit IRC
17:03
<markvandenborre>
hm, ogra, is there a doc somewhere obvious where the existance of this is italc stuff documented?
17:03
<ogra>
http://italc.sourceforge.net/
17:03
if thats enough
17:04
we'll likel switch edubuntu to it by default in the upcoming release
17:04
*likely
17:04
<markvandenborre>
ogra: I can find my way around it, that's not a problem, really
17:05
but I see that you may not want to promote it heavily before having it in there by default...
17:06
<ogra>
??
17:06
why shouldnt i
17:06
i'm convinced enough of it to want to have it by default :)
17:07
<markvandenborre>
heh
17:12
what about user management tools in the sense of ldap?
17:12
the school is a fairly simple situation with one server and a fairly static set of users
17:13
<ogra>
edsadmin is pretty nice ... lat was considered for upstream inclusion in gnome ... there are plenty tools out ther
17:13
e
17:16
<markvandenborre>
do you think ldap is worth the effort in this kind of setup or overkill?
17:16gentgeen__ has quit IRC
17:16
<markvandenborre>
no MS Windows machines in the classroom network
17:16
fairly static <300 audience
17:18
<ogra>
how many servers will you have ?
17:18
<markvandenborre>
just one
17:18
<ogra>
if you start scattering users over the network (i.e. have real workstations etc) yu should use some network auth mechanism ...
17:19
<markvandenborre>
ogra: not really the case, that's the beauty and simplicity here
17:19
<ogra>
if you only run a single ltsp server centralized i woudlntbother with ldap
17:19
<markvandenborre>
I started off by throwing 088 and 286 machines out of the window
17:19
replaced it with this :)
17:20
they went from the steam era right into the future: all converted to free software at once ;)
17:20gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
17:22
<ogra>
but you loose all the fun like preparing the oven in the morning to get enoug steam etc
17:23
<markvandenborre>
yeah, nostalgia...
17:23
the part I really miss are the 35 kg IBM keyboards
17:23
managed to save one though
17:23
<ogra>
metal ones ?
17:23
<markvandenborre>
they made some _really_ heavy ones
17:24
<ogra>
yeah, i'm hunting these since years
17:24
<markvandenborre>
their weight is a multiple of that of the laptop currently in front of me
17:25
<ogra>
thast fine for a desktop keyboard :)
17:25prpplague has quit IRC
17:31markvandenborre has left #ltsp
18:02kaminski-ltsp-br has quit IRC
18:09Uranellus has quit IRC
18:48staffencasa has quit IRC
18:59
<lns>
hey maybe you guys can clarify this for me
19:00
i'm trying to implement global firefox bookmarks for ~200 students, with a simple hard link to /home/share/firefox/bookmarks.html
19:00
i didn't really understand the diff between symlinks/hard links before this but maybe it's supposed to do this...
19:01
symlinks wouldn't work when a user with the correct privs added a new bookmark
19:01
so i created a hard link...logged in as user1 (had perms to the original file) - made a new bookmark, it stuck for that user.
19:03
hold on..verifying
19:04
ok so each user can add his/her own bookmarks and it works if the file is symlinked from their profile
19:04
but it's fragmented from the time you link it...so even if a user can change an original file (has permissions to) it will only change in the hard linked file
19:05
i guess that's the way it's supposed to work, that just sucks because it's not going to be as easy for me now..wish ff would allow symlinking of bookmarks.html file...
19:08fernando1 has quit IRC
19:08nubae has quit IRC
20:04martoya has quit IRC
20:24jammcq has joined #ltsp
20:24
<jammcq>
hey all
21:22BGomes has joined #ltsp
21:56vernier has joined #ltsp
21:57richard__ has quit IRC
22:06zodma1 has joined #ltsp
22:10BGomes has quit IRC
22:10
<vernier>
LDM autologin does not work for me in LTSP5 (debian etch) ... I get a frozen black screen with a X and I can't even ctrl alt F1 so have to hard reboot
22:10Faithful has joined #ltsp
22:11zodma1 has quit IRC
22:11
<vernier>
perhaps related: LDM ltsp5 does not tolerate incorrect logins: it also freezes up and requires hard reboot
22:12
also: changing user in LDM causes a freeze up
22:12
otherwise everything works fine :-)
22:13
<warren>
LDM on the server or client?
22:13
<vernier>
LDM on the client machine
22:13
client machine running ldm vt7 :1
22:13
i mean :0
22:21subir has joined #ltsp
22:56Faithful has quit IRC
23:02edgarin has joined #ltsp
23:03cyberorg has joined #ltsp
23:05
<sutula>
vernier: AFAIK, LDM autologin is broken in ltsp5...I think that's a known issue
23:07
vernier: Other than that, I have an Etch system and it doesn't have trouble with incorrect logins
23:32
<vernier>
thank you sutula: i did not know that was a known issue and i thought i read almost every posting on the subject in the mailing list
23:32
there must be another source of knowledge i am missing such as bug manager?
23:34Faithful has joined #ltsp
23:45
<vernier>
oh i see... the IRC logs are the missing source of wisdom :-) i just read the relevant bits