IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 June 2014   (all times are UTC)

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14:56
<Asterisks>
So, is anyone here?
15:28
<alkisg>
Nah... all are out for coffee
15:28
!ask
15:28
<ltsp`>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
15:30
<Asterisks>
Thanks sherlock, I actually didn't have a question persay. I'm planning on presenting an LTSP cluster as a low cost (small budget) solution to their outdated windows XP system and wanted to get in here incase I come across anything I need help with
15:30
maybe see if anyone here has experience in a similar situation and had any words of wisdom
15:31
<alkisg>
Experiences vary... There are clusters of 5.000 clients, or there are 1.000 labs of 10 clients each...
15:32
<Asterisks>
LTSP cluster for.. ~100 computers (entire network, small school)
15:33
<alkisg>
How much RAM on the clients? I.e. will the be LTSP fat clients or LTSP thin clients?
15:35
<Asterisks>
gunna say thin. most of the system hasn't been upgaded since I was there in kindergarten (I'm 17 now)
15:37
<cyberorg>
alkisg, hi :) where are clusters of 5000 clients?!!
15:37
<alkisg>
If they're pentium 4, you could buy them 1 GB DDR-1 RAM and use them as fat clients
15:37
cyberorg: revolution linux mentioned that number
15:38
I think it was the main reason for ltsp-cluster...
15:39
Asterisks: for fat clients, one good server with a few bonded NICs will suffice for 100 clients. For thin clients, you'd need a cluster, yeah
15:39
<cyberorg>
any idea if they actually implemented that kind of cluster in single location or that was just a theoretical numbers we can do with cluster
15:39
<alkisg>
Fat clients are preferred by schools, as they better support multimedia apps
15:39
cyberorg: sorry I do know it was an actual, not theoretical number, but I don't know any other details, haven't asked
15:40
<cyberorg>
k :)
15:41
<Asterisks>
my reason for the cluster is also redundancy
15:41
<alkisg>
Asterisks: put 1 GB RAM to a single client. Install Ubuntu 12.04 with gnome-fallback or something similar into it. See if it fits their needs. If so, you only need RAM+one server
15:41
Redudancy is not good with thin clients, with fat it's way better
15:44
<cyberorg>
we default to fatclient as well, https://plus.google.com/photos/106376068960352243212/albums/6017982929155268193?banner=pwa
15:44
Asterisks, here is your sales pitch http://cyberorg.co.in/myscool/features/
15:45
<Asterisks>
[2] Requires PC with minimum 2GB RAM and PXE boot capable LAN
15:47
I'm sceptical that the machines they currently have will work as fat clients, and having to upgrade them defeats the point of the system
15:48
<cyberorg>
Asterisks, p4 with 1G ram also works, but we recommend 2G for fatclient, experience is much better
15:49
for really low end hardware there is tinycore http://lizards.opensuse.org/2014/05/31/tiny-core-kiwi-ltsp-thin-client/
15:49
<Asterisks>
any reason you do openSUSE vs ubuntu/edubuntu?
15:51
<cyberorg>
Asterisks, i do both, but prefer opensuse
15:52
<Asterisks>
any reason why, or just personal preference?
15:52
<alkisg>
Asterisks: you'll upgrade the "system" anyway, either with money for good servers or with money for ram for the clients. I'm just saying that the latter usually has much better results.
15:52
<cyberorg>
Asterisks, https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Why_openSUSE
15:56
Asterisks, in myscool server we include ubuntu as well, one of my clients have ltsp cluster with mix of ubuntu 10.04 and opensuse 13.1
15:57
<Asterisks>
a mix? which one do the clients boot, or is there an option?
15:57
<cyberorg>
some ubuntu some suse :)
15:57
yes there's an option like in the image i posted ^^
15:59
<Asterisks>
hmm
15:59
<cyberorg>
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/dV00AL56Nh7bfmrBaf0IxJLibqc1a1_DCBGkvQ6M1d8=w627-h471-no
16:00
<Asterisks>
as someone who hasn't used openSUSE before, what kind of curve would I have to setup a system like yours
16:01
<cyberorg>
get https://news.opensuse.org/2014/05/22/gnome-classic-edition-of-opensuse-education/ boot it up in a VM
16:01
<Asterisks>
I've had some experience with local LTSP testing, but this would be my first real deployment if I can get my pitch accepted
16:01
<cyberorg>
follow this https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:LTSP_quick_start_12.2_Edu
16:02
<Asterisks>
any special setup for the boot options?
16:03
I'm assuming yes
16:03
<cyberorg>
depends what you want to add to it
16:03
tinycore adds itself to the boot menu once the package is installed
16:04
for ubuntu livecd you'd have to add it yourself, for ubuntu fatclient system we have VMs running and entry in boot menu points the clients to the right server
16:05
<Asterisks>
I like the system you've got, I'd still want a cluster together but allowing computers with enough power to boot as fat clienst would be a good idea
16:05
<cyberorg>
you don't really need cluster for 100 clients
16:06
as alkisg said, bonded nics would be good enough, and get ssd for ltsp images
16:07* cyberorg heads home
16:09
<Asterisks>
Okay, I'll be here for a while. I'm going to go do some more research
16:09
Glad I came and talked to you guys
16:13
<alkisg>
Asterisks: so, you're a student trying to convince a school to change its OS? Were you assigned to do that by some teacher, or was it your own idea?
16:14
<Asterisks>
I just mentioned it to the superintendent who was extremely interested in it
16:14
and I'm no longer a student, and I havn't been for years now
16:15
<alkisg>
Sorry I thought you said you were 17
16:15
<Asterisks>
I am, It's a grade school
16:15
I am A student, not at the grade school...
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16:15
<alkisg>
Grade school == primary school?
16:16
<Asterisks>
yea
16:16
<alkisg>
Yeah ok then makes sense.. :)
16:16
Here are a few schools in Greece using LTSP, to help you convince them: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
16:16
<Asterisks>
yeah, there are even several in the US I've found on the edubuntu site
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16:17
<alkisg>
They should be more than 1000 now...
16:17
<Asterisks>
there should be, but there aren't (at least not from what I can find)
16:17
<alkisg>
I mean the greek ones
16:17
<Asterisks>
oh
16:17
probably
16:18
quebec, canda's entire public school system uses ltsp from what I can tell
16:18
thousands upon thousands of clients
16:21
I'd like to have an external fileserver for all the users files and an LDAP server running somewhere (could be on the LTSP server) to allow a single login for the computers and the web filter
16:23
<alkisg>
An external fileserver perfectly matches the fat clients setup :)
16:24
But for thin clients, it's just a bottleneck..
16:29
<Asterisks>
any way to force a computer to either thin/fat client depending on specs?
16:29
or set it by their MAC adddress or similar?
16:35
<alkisg>
You can do any of that
16:35
The default RAM threshold for thin/fat is 400 MB
16:36
And of course you can do it by mac
16:37
<Asterisks>
laptops.
16:38
I've seen you can do a grub/image system to boot laptops, and then have the OS check for updates of the image off the LTSP server
16:38
I'm assuming a VPN would come into play for outside the network to access the files
16:41
<alkisg>
x2go for remote sessions, ssh for plain files
16:41
!local-boot
16:41
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
16:41
<alkisg>
And that one for laptops ^
16:42
<Asterisks>
booting wirelessly?
16:43
<alkisg>
No, wifi is too slow for root disk
16:44
<Asterisks>
"you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img " then have grub installed locally with an entry to boot that
16:44
?
16:45
<alkisg>
Yes, either grub or syslinux or pxelinux or whatever
16:45
<Asterisks>
okay, great
16:46
sorry about all this, but this is more info than I've found in the last week..
16:46
LTSP isn't the greatest as far as external documentation
16:46
<alkisg>
True
16:54
<Asterisks>
how big a server am I looking at for all 100 clients here?
16:58
<alkisg>
For fats, any retail pc. For thins, maybe 5 servers...
16:59
<Asterisks>
mix, probably about 1/2 and 1/2
17:10
<alkisg>
!server-ram
17:10
<ltsp`>
server-ram: LTSP server RAM *really* depends on the usage. But anyway here's an approximation: Server RAM in MB = 1500 + 30*number-of-fat-clients + 300*number-of-thin-clients
17:12
<Asterisks>
~23GB ram
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17:13
<Asterisks>
hey meal
17:16
<alkisg>
And maybe 300 points of CPU for every client... e.g. http://www.passmark.com/cpubenchmark/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3770K+%40+3.50GHz ==> 9600/300 => 32 clients
17:17
And maybe 50 mbps for each thin client, e.g. gigabit => 20 clients max, without much multimedia etc
17:17
!flash
17:17
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
17:18
<alkisg>
For the full experience, you'd need 2.5 gbps for *each* client :D
17:18
That's why people move to fats
17:19
They don't need ram/cpu on the server, and have only modest network bandwidth requirements
17:19
<Asterisks>
yeah, wow
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17:49
<Asterisks>
!commands
17:49
<ltsp`>
add, addchair, alert, alias, announce, announce add, announce list, announce remove, any, apply, apropos, at, ban add, ban list, ban remove, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, change, changename, channel, channels, cmd, commands, config, countargs, cpu, ctime, cycle, default, defaultcapability, defaultplugin, dehalfop, deletemeeting, (2 more messages)
17:49
<Asterisks>
!cpu
17:49
<ltsp`>
I have taken 3663.59 seconds of user time and 123.00 seconds of system time, for a total of 3786.59 seconds of CPU time. My children have taken 0.00 seconds of user time and 0.00 seconds of system time for a total of 0.00 seconds of CPU time. I'm taking up 24804 kB of memory.
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20:30
<Asterisks>
dum de dum
20:39
<Hyperbyte>
Oh hi.
20:39
<Asterisks>
hi
20:39
how are you?
20:39
<Hyperbyte>
Pretty good, all considering.
20:40
I've just been locked in in the central library of Rotterdam for about half an hour. :-)
20:40
Which, you know, is always fun.
20:40
How about you?
20:40
<Asterisks>
pretty good, just been playing games and researching LTSP stuff
20:43
presenting LTSP to a local grade school as a cheaper way to upgrade their system on tuesday
20:46
<Hyperbyte>
Nice one!
20:46
Presenting a radio show tomorrow. :)
20:47
<Asterisks>
nice, what about?
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20:55
<Hyperbyte>
Sports. :)
20:55
Local football tournament.
20:55
<Asterisks>
nice, nice
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