IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 March 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:06
<amnesia>
yea, I'm not finding anything on except ubuntu and debian
00:09
<alkisg>
amnesia: are you supposed to export /opt/ltsp? Or is it /opt/ltsp/i386, i.e. the chroot?
00:10
<vagrantc>
it's fine to export /opt/ltsp
00:10
you can mount sub-dirs.
00:10
in fact, it's recommended to export /opt/ltsp
00:11
<amnesia>
alkisg: I tried both ways
00:11
<alkisg>
And the client initramfs knows where to look? Or does it need some extra configuration to know what/where to mount it?
00:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: dhcp tells it where to look
00:12
<alkisg>
Ah, right. :)
00:13
<amnesia>
its funny i like a distro that nobody supports
00:13
<alkisg>
So if I exported /opt/ltsp as /my-nfs-root-dir, I'd put server-ip:/my-nfs-root-dir/i386 in dhcp, correct
00:13
?
00:14
<amnesia>
option root-path "192.168.0.1:/opt/ltsp/i386";
00:14
that's what I got
00:14
<alkisg>
And in exports?
00:14
<amnesia>
./opt/ltsp 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0(ro,no_root_squash,sync)
00:15
<alkisg>
Doesn't it need to be the same?
00:15
/opt/ltsp/i386 again there?
00:15
<amnesia>
it didnt seem to matter
00:15
either way 2 hours a piece of the 'nfs server not responding still trying'
00:15
:>
00:16
i removed all the lines from hosts.deny hosts.allow
00:16
<alkisg>
Did you try break=mount in pxelinux.cfg/default, to manually try things from inside the initramfs?
00:17* alkisg has never seen slackware, and he's just throwing out ideas...
00:17
<amnesia>
Not familiar with that nor how to do that tbh
00:17
first time i've ever done anything with PXE
00:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: /etc/exports is perfectly ok with mounting sub-dirs. i assure you. having been an LTSP developer for 5 years, and another thin client developer for 4 years above and beyond that...
00:17
:)
00:18
<amnesia>
tell me how and i'll try it :D
00:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I believe you, I was just trying to learn, it was a question :)
00:19
<amnesia>
break=mount
00:19
where does this get inserted
00:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the default on debian in /etc/exports is: /opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)
00:19
<cyberorg>
moin all
00:20
<vagrantc>
amnesia: you have an ubuntu chroot on your slackware server?
00:20
<amnesia>
no
00:20
<vagrantc>
hacking up a slackware chroot?
00:20
<cyberorg>
here is new openSUSE Edu Li-f-e release with LTSP out of the box http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/03/24/li-f-e-updated-2/
00:21
<amnesia>
but im bout to stick your line there in my exports
00:22
<alkisg>
Hi cyberorg. amnesia: I'm not seeing references for slackware/break=mount in google, so it might not apply there.
00:22
vagrantc: he's using ltsp 4.2
00:22
<vagrantc>
oh my
00:22
<amnesia>
actually 4.1 now
00:22
im trying them all
00:23
eventually I'm hoping something will work considering I can't find a package for 5 series
00:24
<alkisg>
amnesia: you could try exporting an ubuntu chroot or an opensuse image etc... you'd just need to prepare it in a separate machine...
00:24
<vagrantc>
amnesia: it probably wouldn't be too difficult to port to ltsp5 ...
00:24
amnesia: it just takes someone with the will to do so.
00:24
<cyberorg>
amnesia, what distro are you using?
00:24
<amnesia>
sw
00:25
<cyberorg>
what kind of clients you got?
00:25
<amnesia>
well
00:25
im testing with a dell inspiron 1000
00:25
i dropped one too many times harddrive failed and I'm too cheap to buy a new one
00:26
<cyberorg>
if you have clients with about 256M ram, and +1Ghz (or little less) you can try this: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Other_Distros
00:26
<amnesia>
yea this laptop here has that
00:26
brb
00:27
<cyberorg>
and get started on porting LTSP in a proper way :)
00:28
<amnesia>
interesting
00:28
ihu this old stuff, but for some reason my distro is stuck in history
00:28
all packages are ancient
00:29
<johnny>
uhmm.. or you could just switch distros amnesia .. it'd be easier..
00:29
<amnesia>
but lets see what happens with this
00:29
<johnny>
ubuntu makes ltsp easy
00:29
<amnesia>
Yeah -- that's not too feasible, good thought tho
00:32
aha 3 gbs
00:33
for life dvd
00:33
thank god for 50mb connection :D
00:35
<cyberorg>
amnesia, we've got kitchen sink in there too ;)
00:35
<amnesia>
i hear ya man
00:35
12 minutes to go
00:35
let me ask you -- I have another box/server
00:36
but I use the box I'm trying to host LTSP on as a gateway aswell with DHCPD etc
00:36
how would that work without setting up a different dotted notation segment
00:37
if I were to just use SuSE on it
00:37
<cyberorg>
to create gateway you need minimum two interfaces, both in different network
00:37
<johnny>
you'll get better support for ubuntu here tho amnesia ..
00:37
just sayin
00:37
<amnesia>
yeah--I have that covered cyberorg
00:38
<cyberorg>
johnny, suse users don't need support ;)
00:38
<vagrantc>
heh
00:38
<amnesia>
that's funny mostly all of those distros are souped up windows linux
00:39
but ltsp is supported :{
00:39
<johnny>
that is exactly not true
00:39
cyberorg, lots of people come here
00:39
<cyberorg>
amnesia, distros does not matter much, ltsp is same on all
00:39
<johnny>
asking for help with ltsp on suse
00:39
<amnesia>
cyberorg -- google slackware/ltsp
00:39
<johnny>
we send them to kiwi.. and they come bakc saying that nobody is there
00:39
<amnesia>
you'll find almost nothing
00:39
<johnny>
amnesia, that's cuz nobody ported it
00:39
amnesia, i ported gentoo..
00:40
that's not exactly souped up windows linux..
00:40
<amnesia>
no i like gentoo
00:40
<johnny>
problem is.. nobody has cared enough about slackware and ltsp
00:40
that's all it is
00:40
<cyberorg>
johnny, yeah, i know last week few of them came in here,they were students hacking on getting fatclient support integrated in easy-ltsp
00:40
<johnny>
until somebody cares enough to port it..
00:40
<amnesia>
heh, apparently nobody cares about slackware
00:40
<johnny>
truly
00:40
i stopped caring about slackware in 2001
00:41
<amnesia>
all i ever needed it for was httpd an my srvs
00:41
everytime i wanted to do something different i get shunned by its support group
00:42
but i been on it for along time
00:43
if u think ubuntu is the way to go i'll setup my other box for it
00:43
but i'm going to try to make this work first
00:44
i dont like getting beaten
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00:49
<alkisg>
stgraber: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp now doesn't contain "nbd", so ltsp-update-image doesn't do anything...
00:49
(in 5.2.1)
00:50
(if $(grep nbd "${CHROOT}/${CONFFILE}" > /dev/null 2>&1); then)
00:55
stgraber: it looks like a packaging error, 'ltsp' got in conf.d instead of conf-hooks.d
00:58
stgraber: yup, in ltsp-client-core.install:
00:58
client/initramfs/conf.d/ltsp usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d
00:58
client/initramfs/conf-hooks.d/ltsp usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d
00:59
<vagrantc>
that seems like a useless check ...
00:59
<alkisg>
It did reveale a packaging problem though :D
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00:59
<vagrantc>
if it's not a file in a configurable location, there's no reason to check for it
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01:00
<vagrantc>
on debian, that file will be present, but not necessarily used
01:00
<alkisg>
I think that file is where we can switch to NFS, if any ubuntu user wants that...
01:00
<amnesia>
cyberorg: so uh
01:00
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
01:01
<amnesia>
how's this gonna work
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01:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but by shipping it in a package outside of /etc, it makes it effectively unconfigurable... it needs to be in a place where the sysadmin can change it and expect the changes to be respected by upgrades.
01:02
<cyberorg>
amnesia, boot up the iso in a VM or dd it to 4G usb stick or burn a DVD to boot it :)
01:02
<amnesia>
yea
01:02
i burnt it already
01:02
now i gotta find something to install it on
01:02
<cyberorg>
no need to install
01:03
http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Quick_start configure ltsp in live image, create tarball, extract it in sw
01:03
<amnesia>
live cd you dont say
01:03
:D
01:03
<alkisg>
vagrantc: should it be in $ROOT/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ instead?
01:03
<cyberorg>
tarball from live DVD, extract it in sw as per http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Other_Distros
01:03
<amnesia>
yea
01:03
im trackin now
01:03
welp um
01:03
brb?
01:04
<cyberorg>
you can test ltsp once you configure it in live DVD by booting a client
01:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't get why it's even being checked at all...
01:04
alkisg: running ltsp-update-image should only be done if you're going to use NBD ...
01:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: well I suppose Gadi put it there to "protect" the people that use nfs on Ubuntu... I don't know.
01:05
I get your point.
01:05
<vagrantc>
that was added in 5.2.1 ?
01:05
<alkisg>
No, it was there for 5.2 I think
01:05
<vagrantc>
ugh.
01:10
<cyberorg>
in kiwi the initrd looks for config.MAC or config.default on tftp server to find out if the client wants NFSROOT, NBDROOT or AOEROOT
01:11
nothing has to be changed when creating initrd, admin can select which image goes to which client if they want different images
01:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: bzr says that line has been there since "before time" :)
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01:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: looks liek 2010-02-14
01:15
shortly before 5.2(.0)
01:20
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sbalneav put it there in 2007-08-11: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/411
01:21
<vagrantc>
ah
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06:51
<uberiain>
hello
06:52
i have updated ltsp-server to version 5.2.1-0ubuntu1 today
06:52
and the client don't boot
06:52
made ltsp-update-image --arch i386 --server 10.228.45.137
06:52
and return without create image to boot
06:54
these file /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp
06:54
has this content
06:54
# Required to get a splash on Lucid
06:54
FRAMEBUFFER=y
06:54
--------
06:55
it's correct? must modify this file
06:55
server is Lucid 10.04
06:55
amd64
06:55
the last version of ltsp-server work well
06:55
any suggestion?
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06:58
<jammcq>
good morning friends
06:59
<uberiain>
hello
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07:39
<stgraber>
if he'd waited for a few more minutes I could have told him to apt-get update + apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
07:39
alkisg: thanks for noticing the mistake. That's now fixed.
07:39
<alkisg>
Thanks stgraber :)
07:40
<stgraber>
alkisg: I also disabled chroot compression by default in -0ubuntu3. Chroot will be aproximately 40% bigger but also 100% more stable ;)
07:40
During tests I made recently, all stability issues at boot time simply vanished once compression is disabled
07:40
<alkisg>
Yey! /me never liked nbd compression...
07:41
<stgraber>
an uncompressed standard chroot is 566M
07:41
so really not that bad
07:44
<alkisg>
Compressing an 11 Gb fat chroot takes ...days :D
07:45
Most modern disks are 1Tb, so no need for compression.. and I don't think network bandwidth will be too affected
07:51
stgraber: just wondering, where is the ubuntu ltsp source maintained? I.e. where did you push that change?
07:57
<stgraber>
bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stgraber/ltsp/ltsp.lucid/
08:04
<alkisg>
Thanks, got it. So each package maintainer maintains his sources... I was under the impression that there would be a "master archive" or something, with all the ubuntu package sources in it! :D
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08:16
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
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08:19
<elias_a_>
Good morning?
08:19
mgariepy: Livin' on the edge (of the world)? ;-)
08:20
<highvoltage>
stgraber: I got your jabber message, I tested with a netbook also (Acer Aspire One), will try another laptop (also with an RTL card) and see what it does
08:20
elias_a_: well, good afternoon in my case. I guess it's always morning in some part of the world :)
08:21
<mgariepy>
elias_a_, it's morning in canada ;)
08:21
<elias_a_>
highvoltage: thou shalt not bow the North Americans!
08:21
mgariepy: Exactly :)
08:21
<highvoltage>
elias_a_: heh, I'll try
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08:46
<vbundi>
mornin everyone
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08:48
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:49
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<sbalneav>
Morning jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:53
<vbundi>
has anyone here gotten carpal tunnel before?
08:54
wondering if I slept funny.. my wrist is pulsing
08:56
<highvoltage>
stgraber: hmm, I tried an ltsp-update-image with compression and without, and the result was the same on two devices, with my own squashfs it works fine, I'm goint to try another squashfs from scratch in that client and see what it does
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10:16
<epaphus>
Hello, does LTSP work with softphones that use USB head sets?
10:16
(thin client)
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10:18
<vbundi>
I think it might
10:19
you can get it to work in ubuntu (without ltsp) right?
10:21
epaphus: I think this might work... boot up your machine with the headset plugged in (not sure if this is required or not yet), log in to your LTSP server, and see if you get any sound out of your headset (ie login sound)
10:21
<epaphus>
vbundi, right.
10:21
i think the softphone will be a localapp though
10:21
would it work like that?
10:22
<vbundi>
epaphus: if you do not hear anything.. right click and go into your sound preferences on your gnome panel at the top, you can set which hardware device you want to use, and it should be in the list
10:22
epaphus: I think so? ;)
10:23
you could skip the above step and go right into twinkle or whatever you're using and see if your headset is a device in there....thats all it is really is a secondary sound device
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10:28
<vbundi>
epaphus: any luck?
10:28
<alkisg>
stgraber: is ltsp-update-image.conf a conffile now?
10:29
<epaphus>
vbundi, i cant try it now.. ill try in a bit :)
10:30
<vbundi>
ah ok
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10:48
<infro>
hello boys
10:48
I have a problem with k12linux
10:49
the client boot on network
10:49
but when I write username and password
10:49
I don't login
10:50
<sbalneav>
Has your server's IP address changed lately?
10:50
<infro>
I have static ip address
10:50
<sbalneav>
You may need to do an ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image.
10:50
<infro>
on my server
10:50
I have eth0 up on 192.168.0.1
10:50
<sbalneav>
ssh package update? More blacklisted keys?
10:50
<infro>
my client in the boot lease ip 192.168.0.10
10:51
<sbalneav>
Well, regardless, I'd first start with the remedy I told you.
10:51
That's usually how to fix a non-logging in thin client.
10:51
<infro>
I have digit ltsp-update-sshkeys on my server
10:52
<sbalneav>
Have you also run ltsp-update-image?
10:52
<infro>
yes
10:52
<sbalneav>
Then I would check 2 things.
10:52
<infro>
what's?
10:53
<sbalneav>
1) The ldm.log file on the thin client itself (You'll have to enable something like SCREEN_02 = shell to do it...
10:53
2) The users' .xsession-errors file in their home directory. They may actually be logging in, but then something is causing the session to end.
10:53
<infro>
one moment please
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10:53
<stgraber>
alkisg: it's supposed to be yes
10:53
<infro>
I tried it
10:54
<sbalneav>
Tried what?
10:54
<stgraber>
alkisg: well, technically anything in /etc/ is a conffile, IIRC only files outside of /etc should be declared explicitly
10:54
<alkisg>
stgraber: My sch-scripts package was putting some info there - will that cause problems on updates?
10:54
I.e. I need to put IPAPPEND=3 and BOOTPROMPT_OPTIONS there...
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10:55
<stgraber>
alkisg: nope, it should ask you
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10:55
<infro>
sbalneav: on my client screen2 (I suppose CTRL+ALT+F2) it's black
10:55
<alkisg>
stgraber: so on each ltsp update it's going to ask the teachers if they want to keep their config files? :( ...
10:55
<thunsucker>
I solved my audio issues with server 2008 using rdesktop
10:56
the "windows audio service" has to be turned on lol
10:56
<stgraber>
alkisg: yep, with keeping it being the default option
10:56
alkisg: there might be a way to preseed/configure that behavior somehow
10:56
<thunsucker>
!seen Gadi
10:56
<ltspbot>
thunsucker: Gadi was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Gadi> but not to vt10
10:56
<sbalneav>
infro: Right. Did you enable SCREEN_02 = shell in your lts.conf file?
10:56
!docs
10:56
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:57
<alkisg>
stgraber: but that only happens when there's been an upstream change to ltsp-update-image.conf, right? Not on "regular" ltsp updates with no changes to the conffile, even if the user changed it... right?
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10:57
<infro>
lts.conf on /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.con
10:58
?
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10:59
<alkisg>
stgraber: Hmmm I'm probably not making sense - let me rephrase that: if the user changes ltsp-update-image.conf, and a new ltsp version comes out, but the upstream ltsp-update-image.conf hasn't changed, will the user still be prompted? (sorry for asking too many questions :))
11:00
<sbalneav>
infro: Depends on where your distribution puts it
11:00
That's why I posted a link to the upstream docs.
11:01
<infro>
sbalneav: in my distribution, ltsp.conf it's empty
11:01
<sbalneav>
You're running what? K12Linux?
11:01
Is it running LTSP5?
11:01
Or an older LTSP4.2?
11:02
<infro>
k12linux
11:02
I suppose LTSP5
11:02
<alkisg>
Another question - would anyone mind / would there be a problem if we ran `chown $user:$group $LDM_SOCKET`, so that fat clients can reuse the ssh connection from inside the user session?
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11:03
<sbalneav>
I'm not sure where Fedora puts the lts.conf file. I don't know if they put it in the tftp area, like Ubuntu/Debian, or not. I'd check Fedora specific LTSP docs. However, you'll need to put something in there like:
11:03
[default]
11:03
SCREEN_02 = shell
11:06
<infro>
ok
11:06
I have find the lts.conf on fedora with locate
11:06
is't on tftp root
11:07
sbalneav: on screen_02 in this moment I have the shell
11:08
<sbalneav>
ok, so try logging in via LDM, then have a look on screen 2, in the /var/log/ldm.log file.
11:08
see what ldm's unhappy about.
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11:12
<infro>
sbalneav: it's open one session ssh
11:12
but don't have a responding
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11:14
<infro>
I have digit ssh root@serverip
11:14
but don't respond (at the command ping ipserver responding)
11:15
it's respond
11:15
also with ssh
11:15
then
11:15
with ssh root@ipserver from client, i have access on server
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11:19
<infro>
slidesinger: using ssh to login, it takes over 2 minutes
11:19
but the X attend only 30 second
11:24
sbalneav: using ssh to login, it takes over 2 minutes but the server X attend only 30 second
11:28
sbalneav: the ping it's very fast...olny 0.2 ms
11:28
*only
11:28
<sbalneav>
infro: Then you have a problem with your reverse dns lookups
11:28
ssh does a reverse dns lookup of the client.
11:28
Are the clients listed in /etc/hosts?
11:29
<infro>
on the server no
11:29
I add it?
11:29
<sbalneav>
You should.
11:29
I would recommend you add /etc/hosts entries for all your thin clients
11:30
<infro>
only on /etc/hosts on my server?
11:31pmatulis has quit IRC
11:31
<sbalneav>
Either there, or in DNS, whichever is correct for your site.
11:31
<infro>
I reboot the client
11:31pmatulis has joined #ltsp
11:32
<infro>
I have only client<-->server, this is my lan
11:33
only eth0 ethernet on server, only eth0 ethernet on client, with the server when static ip
11:34
<sbalneav>
Then I'd suspect /etc/hosts would be fine.
11:36
<infro>
The situation has not changed unfortunately ... we need more time with ssh
11:38
<sbalneav>
Well, you'll need to fix that. That's the root of your problem.
11:39
<infro>
there is the documentation of it?
11:40
<sbalneav>
You have an ssh problem, so I'd expect openssh.org would probably be able to shed some insight.
11:42
<alkisg>
Doesn't Fedora use a bridge on 192.168.0.x for the ltsp network?
11:42
<infro>
alkisg: yes but I have put it down
11:42
it's a problem?
11:43
<alkisg>
I don't know what else it configures on the network, but it might be something that affects you there
11:47
<thunsucker>
infro: so your ssh is slow to respond?
11:47litlebuda has joined #ltsp
11:52
<infro>
boys I have restarting the configuration
11:52
with the bridge
11:52
and it's work :D
11:53
:D
11:55
<sbalneav>
Rule #1 of debugging:
11:55
<slidesinger>
hello Scotty and Jim
11:56
<sbalneav>
"If something stops working, ask yourself 'what has changed?'" Undo the change, if possible, and observe"
11:56
Hello slidesinger
11:56
Well, off for lunch
11:56
back in a bit.
11:58
<infro>
sbalneav: it's right
12:00litlebuda has quit IRC
12:01
<Appiah>
just sucks when someone else changed something and says they havent changed anything
12:01
and now they need YOUR help
12:03
<vbundi>
^ yes
12:06staffencasa has joined #ltsp
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12:32
<stgraber>
alkisg: he shouldn't get prompted
12:36Lns has joined #ltsp
12:44
<alkisg>
Thanks :)
12:49
<vagrantc>
Gadi_eeepc: so, i think the problems with cdpinger is specifically a problem with how qemu handles CDROM drives... it worked fine with virtualbox.
12:50
<Gadi_eeepc>
vagrantc: hey, well thats good news!
12:51* Gadi_eeepc is finding that virtualization is not being kind to ubuntu in several ways, too
12:52
<vagrantc>
i also need to test usb sticks on real hardware ... as i've been experiencing a bug where devices only show up in /var/run/ltspfs_fstab after boot. could also be just a qemu problem, but virtualbox-ose doesn't support usb, so i can't do the easy cross-reference with that...
12:54
i still would like to test the CDROM problem on real hardwre too...
12:55
<Gadi_eeepc>
does anyone know if there is a known problem with xephyr on 64-bit karmic?
13:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: should i apply the last translation from the debian french translation team, or do you prefer to keep the translations as they are? http://bugs.debian.org/571073
13:03ogra_cmpc has quit IRC
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13:09
<stgraber>
vagrantc: oh, sorry. Feel free to merge that one and I'll look at it afterwards. Not sure that'll make it in Lucid though
13:10
<vagrantc>
stgraber: well, it's a bug reported against debian, so no problem. :)
13:19ogra_cmpc has quit IRC
13:21
<Lns>
vagrantc: would you personally recommend using squeeze (amd64, though i'm confident it doesn't matter as much for debian) for a real world ltsp setup?
13:22
vagrantc: given it might be an educational environment with people wanting semi-recent packages
13:22
<vagrantc>
Lns: it definitely introduces the possibility of something breaking every time you upgrade any of the many packages
13:23
<Lns>
vagrantc: more than ubuntu? ;)
13:24
<vagrantc>
at least ubuntu pretty much makes a release and doesn't introduce new upstream versions for that given release (?)
13:24
<Lns>
true
13:24
<vagrantc>
so you at least have 6 months of hopefully minimal changes...
13:25
<Lns>
Reason I ask is that I'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu for ltsp. I've always used debian before ubuntu came out, and wonder what the biggest differences are regarding ltsp setups (say, ubu 9.10 vs deb squeeze)
13:25
<vagrantc>
whereas major upstream version changes can wander into debian testing on a daily basis
13:25
<Lns>
vagrantc: sure but they've at least been tested to some extent by the community, no?
13:25
<vagrantc>
Lns: the backported ltsp stuff may actually work better on debian/stable right now than debian/testing...
13:26
<Lns>
vagrantc: right on
13:26
vagrantc: then i'm just stuck with the older gui packages such as gnome, OOo, firefox, etc
13:26
<vagrantc>
Lns: so if it's newer ltsp bits you need, i'd recommend using the backports...
13:26* Lns sighs...grass is always greener
13:27
<Lns>
vagrantc: not so much latest ltsp, but at least localapps/fatclient stuff
13:27
<pem725>
stgraber: I am setting up fat clients on my LTSP 5.2 install and some clients need windows. Do you (or anyone else) recommend running virtualbox as a local app? If not, any ideas how I can have my thin clients run windows?
13:27
<vagrantc>
some of those are also available with backports ... though for the stuff you care about most, there still can be major changes on a semi-regular basis
13:27
<Lns>
more what i'm worried about after that is the stability of gnome & friends
13:28
hmm
13:28
<pem725>
BTW, I'm using Karmic at the moment with the PPA.
13:28
<vagrantc>
pem725: use rdesktop to connect to a windows server (maybe virtual) remotely?
13:28
<pem725>
does that work if I have multiple clients accessing windows?
13:29
<vagrantc>
i don't really know windows.
13:29
<pem725>
nor do I....
13:29
<vagrantc>
but people talk about using rdesktop/RDP all the time, so i presume you must be able to have multiple connections to a single server (otherwise, what's the point?)
13:29
<pem725>
true enough.
13:30
I will look into it.
13:30
<Lns>
pem725: vagrantc: you can with terminal services, otherwise windows servers allow 2 simultaneous connections only
13:30
<pem725>
thanks vagrantc.
13:30
ah
13:30
Lns: thanks for the tip.
13:30
<Lns>
but you need CALs for each device (client access licenses)
13:30
<vagrantc>
ooooh! two connections at once, it's amazing! :)
13:30
<Lns>
=p
13:30* Lns promises he will not get sucked into the windows flamefest
13:31
<Lns>
...or start one
13:31
<pem725>
so I guess I am stuck with either running multiple virtual machines with windows or setting up terminal services.
13:32
<Lns>
pem725: what do you need windows for exactly?
13:32
<pem725>
Lns: statistics packages that only run in Windows and cannot run in crossover or wine.
13:32
<Lns>
ah
13:33
<pem725>
if I could avoid windows I would.
13:33
<Lns>
no i was just curious
13:33
<pem725>
understood.
13:33
<Lns>
but i concur ;)
13:34
<pem725>
yeah, the mixed environments really make the LTSP setup complicated - more so than it needs to be.
13:35
<Lns>
pem725: it's really not too bad when you have terminal services going
13:35
<pem725>
unfortunately I don't have a stand-alone windows server. I would need to run windows as a virtual machine on my LTSP server.
13:35
<Lns>
you just have to worry about all the MS stuff that comes with it
13:35
pem725: that's what i do
13:36
<pem725>
hmmm
13:36
does it require more $$ other than the standard XP install?
13:36
<Lns>
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes.
13:36
<pem725>
I am so far out of the windows world I have no clue.
13:36
I figured as much.
13:36
<Lns>
well the CALs aren't too bad
13:37
i think...but the server license itself is a lot
13:37
plus you "get" to install terminal services license management server or whatever the frick that is
13:37
<pem725>
my LTSP setup is in a university where we have a site license for XP and Win7 seats.
13:37
<Lns>
so it's an added layer of complexity to make sure microsoft is getting their money
13:37
<pem725>
ah
13:37
sounds like that is a non-starter for me.
13:38
<Lns>
well if you have xp/7 licenses for free...
13:38
hmm.
13:38
<pem725>
Lns: is there another option.....
13:38
you have me on the edge of my seat
13:38
<Lns>
just trying to think, but i dunno. what kind of clients are you using?
13:39
can you have a local xp/7 install on a hdd?
13:39
<pem725>
old P4's with 1GB and Gb NIC's.
13:39
<Lns>
(not that i advocate that)
13:39
xp might not be too shabby on those, i dunno
13:39
<pem725>
I could but these systems are not terribly stable as stand-alone computers.
13:39
as thin clients they work like a champ.
13:40
<Lns>
+1 ltsp ;)
13:40
<pem725>
they are old Dell's that overheat when the IDE bus gets too much traffic.
13:40
<Lns>
ikes!
13:40
<pem725>
yep
13:40
<vagrantc>
stgraber: pushed the translation update... looks like it re-fuzzied a string... but otherwise (taking my lack of knowing french) looks like minimal changes.
13:40
<pem725>
again, +1 LTSP!!
13:40
<Lns>
well i might be wrong but maybe term services for windows is your only option if you want to really make it work
13:41
but of course that's $$
13:41
<vagrantc>
running virtualbox or some other virtual machine as a localapp might be worth trying...
13:41
<pem725>
vagrantc: I setup my fat client script to install virtualbox.
13:42
<vagrantc>
although the ram requirements for windows + your windows app might be strained ... 1GB of ram on the clients?
13:42
<pem725>
exactly...
13:42
<vagrantc>
nothing like trying it out to know :)
13:42
<pem725>
that is why I was hoping I could run it on the server some way...some how.
13:42
vagrantc: I got it working but it is so slow, it is unusable.
13:42
hence, my plea for alternative solutions.
13:43
any ideas how to run virtualbox on the server?
13:43
<Lns>
pem725: and you're totally positive this software won't work with wine/cx?
13:43
<vagrantc>
well, like any application, you can run it on the server if it's an application that doesn't need to be really responsive ... but multiple virtual machines on a server would require a really massive server
13:43
<Lns>
pem725: how many people at a time need to access the software?
13:44
<pem725>
Lns: yep. Tried to configure wine and had a contract with codeweavers but no luck.
13:44
<Lns>
:(
13:44
<pem725>
vagrantc: I have a pretty massive server. Dual Quad core with 32GB RAM.
13:44
massive for PC hardware that is....
13:44
<alkisg>
Windows over AoE?
13:45
<pem725>
alkisg: you mean running windows or ATA-over-ethernet?
13:45
<alkisg>
Running windows over the network
13:45
<pem725>
I have a coraid storage server.
13:45
<alkisg>
This way you won't have any heat problems
13:45
And you can dual boot with LTSP if you want...
13:46
<pem725>
whoa! ok, let me get this straight....
13:46
<alkisg>
But 1 Gb RAM is a little to run vbox. You may do it with XP, but it won't be very fast...
13:47
<vagrantc>
pem725: simply running virtualbox from the server might work ...
13:47
<pem725>
so you can boot AoE?
13:47
<alkisg>
http://winaoe.org/
13:47
<pem725>
alkisg: thanks, I will look into the winaoe solution.
13:48
<alkisg>
Or you could use vbox, giving 512 ram to XP and see how that goes...
13:48
<pem725>
vagrantc: if I run windows on my server, how do I ensure that my thin clients get the proper kernel module?
13:49
whoops, I was a bit unclear with my previous note. If I run vbox on my server...
13:49
<Gadi_eeepc>
anyone know what Classroom Control on Ubuntu is? (package: controlaula)
13:50
is it an italc replacement?
13:50
<pem725>
alkisg: thanks for the winaoe link. Very interesting.
13:50
<alkisg>
pem725: each PC will need its own copy, but copies should be easy to make... I've never done that though, I've just read about it.
13:51
Gadi_eeepc: it's an awful italc replacement
13:51* alkisg is trying to make yet another italc replacement himself :D
13:51
<Gadi_eeepc>
so, what makes it awful?
13:51
<pem725>
alkisg: individual copies for each client should not be a problem. I can clone them.
13:52
<alkisg>
First, I couldn't get it to work. Second, on postinst it modifies a lot of /etc/* files and it doesn't restore them on postrm/purge
13:52
Third, it doesn't care much about security (that's from their site)
13:52* Lns welcomes anyone to look at the current code for TCM and join the project if they so wish :) http://logicalnetworking.net/wiki/doku.php#projectthin_client_manager_tcm
13:53
<alkisg>
Fourth, it was designed for some local site needs, so it's a little weird in the things it needs...
13:53
pem725: in aoe, cloning = copying the image on the server. No need for ghost etc..
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13:54
<pem725>
alkisg: yup, that is why I really like the idea. very simple.
13:54
hopefully I don't need to maintain the windows support for too long.
13:56
<vagrantc>
pem725: if you're running virtualbox on the server, the client doesn't need any modules... it will just display to the client.
13:57
<pem725>
one final question before I start hacking away at my LTSP setup.....does anyone have specific recommendations to allow my fat clients full multimedia support through the browser? In other words, I would like flash, html5, java, etc. to be locally run and I need to know which packages to install in the ltsp-build-client.conf file.
13:57
<alkisg>
Gadi_eeepc: if I have root access on a thin/fat client, is there any way to temporarily turn off the speaker (to prevent students from hearing songs etc)?
13:57
<pem725>
vagrantc: really? I keep getting some error that the kernel module is not installed.
13:57
perhaps I need to look into the vbox setup before I abandon it.
13:58
<alkisg>
pem725: ubuntu-resticted-extras should suffice
13:58
See the page I put on the ubuntu wiki...
13:58
<pem725>
alkisg: excellent.
13:58
I'm going there now....
13:59
<alkisg>
pem725: about the vbox error, try: sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup
13:59
<pem725>
on the client or server?
13:59
<alkisg>
Wherever the vbox is installed
13:59
<pem725>
got it.
13:59
<vagrantc>
pem725: using fat clients or thin clients? with fat clients, it would have to have that all set up on the client ... with thin clients, it should just be set up on the server.
14:00
<pem725>
vagrantc: I had it setup on the clients but it was too slow. It also made the bootup so painfully slow that I decided to shift the load back to the server.
14:01
so now vbox will run from the server.
14:01
even with my fat clients.
14:01
<vagrantc>
pem725: are the vbox modules loaded on the server?
14:01
<pem725>
yep
14:01
<vagrantc>
and you still get a module error?
14:01
<pem725>
runs perfectly on the server.
14:01
yep.
14:02
at least I did with my previous install.
14:02
<vagrantc>
it's possible virtualbox is stupidly written...
14:02
<pem725>
vagrantc: I have no doubt that there are some strange things with vbox.
14:02
<vagrantc>
if it messes with the machines video drivers or some such ...
14:03
<pem725>
that might be the issue.
14:03
I am running some thin clients with Nvidia and others with the troublesome intel chipsets.
14:04
<vagrantc>
pem725: your server have kvm support? you could use kvm/qemu-kvm on the server as well.
14:05
<pem725>
vagrantc: I dunno. If KVM is enabled, I didn't enable it since I am using the stock Karmic server (pae) kernel.
14:06
<vagrantc>
egrep '^flags.*(vmx|svm)' /proc/cpuinfo
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14:06
<vagrantc>
pem725: it's another option if virtualbox proves to be problematic
14:07
<pem725>
vagrantc: great idea.
14:07
yep, svm enabled
14:08
very cool; thanks for the additional options.
14:10
<ma_mu>
is multiseat on a ltspclient possible
14:10bobby_C has quit IRC
14:10
<vagrantc>
ma_mu: anything is possible... it might be more trouble than it's worth, though.
14:11
<vbundi>
it's possible to hack the termserv.dll file to allow more than 2 concurrent connections on a windows XP machine
14:12
<alkisg>
ma_mu: have you managed multiseat in a non-ltsp setup recently?
14:13
<ma_mu>
no
14:13
<alkisg>
Then, doing it in a thin client will prove more difficult..
14:14
I've tried multiseat 2 years ago in a non-ltsp setup, but it was too much trouble. And I think noone's done it with the new gdm...
14:20
<ma_mu>
I tried another thing, virtualgl in ltsp
14:20
would be great in a diskless mythbuntu client
14:20
to play games on the client
14:21ogra_cmpc has quit IRC
14:22
<alkisg>
Did it work?
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14:23
<ma_mu>
yes in smaller resolution like 1360x768
14:23* alkisg wonders how many clients can a normal server support in this case, though..
14:24
<ma_mu>
its a small home network with 4clients
14:24
and older hardware athlon 5600+ and geforce 7600gt
14:25
<alkisg>
And e.g. googleearth worked on all 4 of them?
14:25
<ma_mu>
not the same time
14:25
I should upgrade my hardware
14:30
I didnt try simultaneously on all 4 clients
14:32
<vbundi>
virtualgl??
14:32
what's that like openGL for vbox etc?
14:33
<ma_mu>
you can stream 3D apps to the client
14:33
<vbundi>
interesting...
14:34
my machines do compiz effects and stuff.. and will render the GL screensavers.. although because they are not local they are quite slow
14:34
I was surprised at the performance either way... they're intel g915 graphics..
14:35
<ma_mu>
doom3 on a client with geforce 7050 works here with virtualgl
14:36
and some wine games like tomb raider
14:37
<Gadi_eeepc>
ma_mu: do you run the whole session through virtualgl or just launch virtualgl client as a local app?
14:39
<ma_mu>
started the 3D app with vglrun -c proxy doom3 in a terminal not as local app
14:40
<Gadi_eeepc>
ah - you may get even better performance if you run that command as a local app
14:40
*maybe*
14:40
<ma_mu>
got no performance problems
14:41
<Gadi_eeepc>
ah
14:41
great
14:41
what are you using as the graphics server?
14:41
just the server's video card?
14:42
<ma_mu>
geforce grafik 7600gt on the server
15:00pmatulis has quit IRC
15:03
<vbundi>
ma_mu: so graphics are rendered on the client or server then?
15:04
<ma_mu>
on the server and stream to the client
15:11
<vbundi>
what kind of FPS are you getting in Doom3 with a 7600gt?
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15:19
<ma_mu>
where can i find this info?
15:20
I can say for me is playable but im not a "hardcore" gamer
15:20
<vbundi>
one sec
15:23
ctrl-alt-~ in game to bring down the console, type in com_showfps 1
15:24CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp
15:25
<vbundi>
ma_mu: that's pretty cool that it work though.. might be able to run CAD type stuff off the server
15:27Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
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15:37
<ma_mu>
ive got values between 20 and 30 on the client
15:38
<vbundi>
wow lol
15:38
thats awesome
15:39
<ma_mu>
ultra quality res 800x600
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15:39
<amnesia>
cyberorg: you here?
15:40
<sbalneav>
!seen cyberorg
15:40
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: cyberorg was last seen in #ltsp 14 hours, 29 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <cyberorg> nothing has to be changed when creating initrd, admin can select which image goes to which client if they want different images
15:40
<amnesia>
well maybe u can help
15:41
<ma_mu>
also tried max res but then a lot of flickering latency
15:41
<amnesia>
I got the SuSE kiwi-ltsp ; some what ported it to slackware and I have the login screen via PXE
15:41
I type in user/pass, it says verifying with server ; then i get a no response from server
15:41
and it restarts the session, any ideas?
15:42
<vbundi>
well if I screw up my credentials it does the same thing
15:43
so maybe it's not checking the password properly or something
15:43
<abeehc_>
my clients will often put info to help with that in /var/log/ldm.log i think
15:44
<vagrantc>
amnesia: you'll need to update the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts file
15:45
<amnesia>
well i'm thinkin this is 5.2
15:45
or whatever
15:46
so srv/tftpboot/KIWI hosts?
15:46
<vagrantc>
typically, you just run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server.
15:46
not sure what kiwi-ltsp does.
15:51
<amnesia>
well
15:51
im happy i got past the nfs server not responding
15:51
:D
15:55
WARNING: /srv/kiwi-ltsp/etc/ssh not found. skipping...
15:55
bleh
15:56
<vbundi>
hmm
15:58
<abeehc_>
i'm using 5.2
15:59
all the same i think kiwi-ltsp has their own channel
16:03
<vagrantc>
kiwi-ltsp does things moderately differently than most of the other ltsp 5.x implementations
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16:14
<ma_mu>
is there an option in lts.conf to set alsa to 6 channel surround sound
16:17
for my localapp mythfrontend
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16:56
<Lns>
HOLY MOLY I love the -n switch on ltsp-update-image!!!! =) =)
16:56
took like...2 seconds to rebuild the image
16:56
haha
16:56
<alkisg>
Heh
16:56
Is there a way to temporarily turn off the sound volume for LTSP clients? (so that the students cannot turn it back on themselves)?
16:57
<Lns>
hmm
16:58
alkisg: alsactl?
16:58
<alkisg>
Lns, will that prevent the users from turning on the volume on their own?
16:59
<Lns>
hrm
16:59
not sure if maybe you set the config file permissions..dunno if tha'ts updated dynamically, probably not
17:00
<alkisg>
I thought of removing the students from the audio group temporarily, but they'd need to logoff for that to take effect... :-/
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17:02
<Lns>
either way you'd have to get into each booted client
17:02
<alkisg>
That's the easy part :)
17:02
I've solved that with reverse connections to the server...
17:03
<Lns>
nice! :)
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18:42
<Lns>
Ok so I have firefox/flash running as a localapp.. I installed icedtea6-plugin in the chroot but FF isn't picking it up. Clues?
18:42
about:plugins doesn't show it
18:42
<vagrantc>
Lns: ltsp-update-image?
18:43
<Lns>
vagrantc: :) did that
18:43
<vagrantc>
just checking the obvious :)
18:43
<Lns>
i'm going to do it again for good measure though ;)
18:43
<vagrantc>
you could manually mount the image file to check that it's there
18:43
instead of rebuilding it
18:44
<Lns>
it's ok, i'm having fun with the -n option :)
18:45
vagrantc: I have to say I tried Squeeze earlier..but grub failed to install. Being the lazy person I am I just gave up. I might try it later. :) I couldn't figure out why though.
18:45
well holy crap vagrantc I guess I didn't rebuild the image. =p~~ jeez.
18:46
ty
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18:46
<Lns>
of course now I'm testing it, go to my java browser test page, it says "This web browser can [ blank gray space ] run java applets."
18:46
*sigh*
18:52
BUT my java typing program seems to work. go figure
18:54
<vagrantc>
heh
18:55
i'm testing debian-installer's squeeze ltsp-client-builder right now...
18:58
<Lns>
woah...wait a minute. Has Ubuntu 8.04 --> 10.04 ltsp-update-image gotten significantly faster? I'm not using -n and it STILL built the image in like, 5 seconds.
18:58
meaning, nbd image building.. heh
18:58
<vagrantc>
it is possible
18:58
<Lns>
at least on my 8.04 server it took around 2.5 minutes
19:02
well i'm not complaining
19:06
<stgraber>
Lns: if you are running today's ltsp >=0ubuntu3 on Lucid, -n is the default so no need to use it. If you want to check how long it would take without -n, you'll need to comment the line in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
19:06
<Lns>
stgraber: oh! Thanks :)
19:06
that's why.
19:06
and i guess i missed the whole point in the edubuntu meeting. =p
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19:12
<Lns>
Alright all thanks for the good company, cheers for tonight
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19:14
<pem725>
my thin client display is once again rotated and mirrored but I can't recall the fix. Anyone know?
19:14
using intel graphics card FWIW.
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19:43
<epaphus>
Hello all. Can skype run as a localapp so I can get sound out of it? through an ltsp thin client setup ?
19:43
.join #ubuntu
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20:38
<jammcq>
hellooooooo
20:56
<abeehc>
hi
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