IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 August 2012   (all times are UTC)

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07:49
<fossala>
Does LTSP get it's Xsession files from the normal place?
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10:28
<rickogden>
for some reason when I do the ltsp-update-image --cleanup / on ltsp-pnp, it sets the nbd name to /opt/ltsp/amd64 as opposed to ltsp_amd64
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10:42
<alkisg>
rickogden: that's correct, newer LTSP versions use that, in order to match with the NFS rootpath, so that it's possible to boot NFS or NBD without changes in DHCP
10:42
So if you have ltsp_amd64 somewhere in your (old) configuration files, update them
10:43
<rickogden>
alkisg: ah ok
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10:46
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: all ok with ltsp-pnp?
10:55
<rickogden>
alkisg: is dnsmasq required for ltsp-pnp if you're using ipxe?
10:55
<alkisg>
No, the wiki page just proposes it for easier configuration
10:56
<rickogden>
ah cool :)
10:56
<alkisg>
As I assume that it's most common for people NOT to want their LTSP server to be a DHCP server too
10:56
(opposite to what LTSP usually proposes so far)
10:57
rickogden: you'll need tftpd-hpa for the tftp server if you remove dnsmasq though
10:57
<rickogden>
alkisg: I'm actually using lighttp to serve the files
10:58
<alkisg>
Personally I prefer dnsmasq for the TFTP+proxy DHCP+DNS server (speeds up fat clients lookups)
10:58
And leave the DHCP leasing up to my router
10:58
<rickogden>
alkisg: the server is on a different vlan though
10:58
<alkisg>
Different vlan from the clients? Why so?
10:58
But sure, whatever suits your setup
10:59
TFTP does work even with different vlans, no problem there
10:59
<rickogden>
the clients are across 2 vlans and the server is on a separate vlan as well
10:59
yeah, I got TFTP working, but found that HTTP is faster
10:59
<alkisg>
True, if you have to use ipxe anyways, then http is faster
11:00
(although not so much to deserve the switch just for that, in my experience)
11:04
<rickogden>
probably right, I changed it while I was debugging, and thought there wasn't much point in changing it back
11:05
<alkisg>
You could also install a proxydhcp server in your other vlan subnet, so that you don't need ipxe at all
11:05
<rickogden>
alkisg: unfortunately there aren't any servers running on those vlans, would be nice though
11:05
I don't manage the network
11:06
<alkisg>
OK
11:06* alkisg sometime wants to serve LTSP fat clients with his android mobile phone... :)
11:06
<rickogden>
haha
11:06
how do I make ltsp-pnp fat client?
11:06
<alkisg>
You just boot a client with >512 mb ram
11:06
It's automatically fat
11:07
<rickogden>
oh awesome!
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11:16
<rickogden>
excellent, booting up and I can login (don't get any menus or anything, just a blank desktop but it's a start) :)
11:23
<alkisg>
Thin or fat?
11:24
If it's thin, unity has problems there
11:24* alkisg is using gnome-fallback for thin clients
11:25
<rickogden>
it's fat
11:26
<alkisg>
Try selecting unity-2d from LDM, it might be some unity-3d + graphics card problem
11:29
<rickogden>
ah brilliant, yes Ubuntu 2D works, rubbish Intel integrated graphics cards :)
11:29
<alkisg>
Nah, rubbish unity-3d :P :D
11:30
<rickogden>
I'm still tempted to give the students the option for gnome...
11:31
hmm strange, when I come to shutdown it keeps trying to talk to the serial port (tty4) and doesn't switch off
11:31
<alkisg>
I don't really like any of those new environments that try to convince us that it's a good thing to have an interface designed for touch screens, tablets etc in our desktops
11:31
Do you have something installed on the server that ...tries to talk to tty4?
11:32
(tty?!)
11:32
<rickogden>
not as far as I'm aware, but I will check
11:33
<vmlintu>
alkisg: hi.. we got lightdm to work for thin client logins using pam_sshauth and nss-sshsock2 from 12.04 repositories
11:33
<alkisg>
You can disable any problematic services from lts.conf
11:33
vmlintu: hi, are you related to the one that posted a mail to the ltsp-developers ML?
11:34
<vmlintu>
alkisg: yes, we've been working on it together
11:34
<alkisg>
vmlintu: nice, hope sbalneav or vagrantc can take it from there
11:34
I'm not familiar enough with pam etc to be of any help...
11:34
<vmlintu>
There are still bugs in various pieces
11:35
like pam_sshauth not working without nss-sshsock is working which requires pam_sshauth to work.. ;)
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11:35
<vmlintu>
I got it working with some ugly hacks, but it fixes shouldn't be hard
11:36
<alkisg>
vmlintu: we'll also need to create the available /usr/share/xsession/*.desktop from init-ltsp.d, right?
11:36
...in order for lightdm or other display managers to pick them up...
11:36
E.g. "select session => Unity 3D on `server`"
11:36
Or "Gnome shell, locally"
11:37
<vmlintu>
We've been just using hard coded .desktop file as we don't want any choice anyway
11:37
<alkisg>
Sure, but upstream code needs to cover most use cases
11:39
<vmlintu>
yes, it needs to be added.. doing it the same way as ldm fetches the information should be possible
11:40
<alkisg>
LDM uses ldminfod, but that needs to changed too,
11:40
i.e. it should be moved from an "LDM responsibility" to an "init-ltsp.d => generate available xsessions" implementation
11:41
...because it's not possible to add code to e.g. lightdm to use ldminfod and update its UI dynamically...
11:42
<vmlintu>
dynamically?
11:42
It's not enough to load the information once before lightdm starts?
11:42
<alkisg>
IMHO it should be enough. Currently though LDM contacts the available servers after it starts.
11:43
But I don't like that design, it's not portable/extensible.
11:44
So you have my vote there :)
11:45
<vmlintu>
I'll have a look at those
11:46
Right now it looks like only the localapps scripts break with this. The scripts try to create the user in /etc/passwd which breaks nss-sshsock.
11:47
Otherwise all ldm/rc.d scripts seem to work nicely
11:47
pulseaudio and usb sticks work also - I'm not sure which other cases should be supported
11:48
<alkisg>
vmlintu: I think that pamssh etc will replace the passwd copying logic, so you don't need to maintain any compatibility there, the old code should be removed...
11:49
Also, putting a how to in the (new) ltsp wiki might help people interested in helping with this
11:49
<vmlintu>
at ltsp.org?
11:50
<alkisg>
See /topic for the link
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11:51
<vmlintu>
yep
11:51
Kerberos works nicely with this too.. Only PAM changes are needed
11:52
I'm just wondering how the authentication method should be defined when creating the chroot..
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11:55
<alkisg>
vmlintu: what do you mean? Isn't this going to be the only default method for authentication?
11:56
(with anything else requiring manual user changes?)
11:59
<vmlintu>
That's what I'm wondering as we'll be using pam_krb5.so instead of pam_sshauth. Should we just customise our chroots or are there others who'd use this or some other non-sshauth-authentication module.
12:00
<alkisg>
vmlintu: ...wait, then why are you trying to help with pam-sshauth?
12:01
<vmlintu>
The only difference in configuration is really the one PAM line, so as we get it to work with pam_krb5.so, it starts working with pam-sshauth also
12:01
<alkisg>
That's only for the authentication part, while the nss part will be the same?
12:02
<vmlintu>
right now it looks like we could use nss-sshsock also
12:02
<alkisg>
But how, if there's no ssh socket created upon authentication?
12:02
Doesn't libpam-sshauth do that part?
12:02
<vmlintu>
ltsp-session script creates the socket, not libpam-sshauth
12:03
And we can use the kerberos ticket to open the control socket
12:03
With libpam-sshauth the script uses shm_askpass binary to hand over the user password to ssh
12:03* alkisg doesn't really know much about how pam works, nor about libpam-sshauth/nss etc, but he thought that ltsp scripts wouldn't handle authentication any more
12:04
<vmlintu>
libpam-sshauth handles the authentication, but the control socket opening is not in libpam-sshauth
12:05
<alkisg>
From libpam-sshauth README: "One of the primary goals with pam_sshauth is to create an ssh "Master socket" which can thereafter be used to launch programs on the remote system."
12:05* alkisg checks the code...
12:06
<vmlintu>
The
12:06
pam_sshauth library contains no method to do this directly, for the sake of
12:06
simplicity. Rather, we provide a helper which can be used via the SSH-ASKPASS
12:06
mechanism, as well as an example script which can be used in conjunction with
12:06
pam_exec to create the tunnel.
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12:07
<vmlintu>
that's from the 12.04 version
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12:09
<alkisg>
Ah, so the package upon installation is useless unless another package (ltsp) or the user provide some wrapper script. OK...
12:09
<vmlintu>
yes, right now the ltsp use case needs a script to get the control socket working
12:10
And that script works both with pam_sshauth and pam_krb5
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12:13
<vmlintu>
There's one case against opening the control socket in pam-sshauth - it makes load balancing in clusters harder
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12:27
<alkisg>
(damn ISP :()
12:30
<vmlintu>
adsl?
12:30
<alkisg>
Yeah, it recently started disconnecting a couple of times per day
12:32
<vmlintu>
not nice
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13:00
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Alkis. :)
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13:17
<bieb>
alkisg: how was vacation?
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14:06
<stgraber>
alkisg1: heya, uploaded the Debian merge to Ubuntu, delta is quite a bit smaller now ;)
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15:40
<bieb>
I am going to ask maybe a dumb question.. I have been looking at using something other than Ubuntu12.04 for my ltsp server rebuild.. I looked at Mint.. I know it is based off Ubuntu, while reading the doc.. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=190&t=83991&start=0 It says "Step2: We have to tell LTSP scripts that Linux Mint is actually Debian".. Why?? Why not just use debian then? Am I missing something?
15:41
<alkisg1>
bieb: which problems are you trying to fix by the distro change?
15:42
Mint comes in different flavors, LMDE is Debian, while the "normal" Mint flavor is Ubuntu AFAIK
15:43
<bieb>
alkisg1: you and I have talked about my dislike of 12.04 and all the problems I was having with AD integration.. my previous install was Ubuntu 10.04 and seemed to work alot better than 12.04
15:43alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
15:43
<bieb>
ahhh... I didnt take notice to the LMDE
15:43
<alkisg>
bieb: Mint is Ubuntu, so I don't know why you're thinking that it would make any difference at all wrt AD integration...
15:44
It does have DE-related changes, but I guess it'll have the exact same packages as "main" Ubuntu for AD integration..
15:45
<bieb>
alkisg: I was looking for something closer to an earlier version of Ubuntu.. I just found it odd when reading that doc you had to tell it that it was debian.. but since you pointed out the LMDE it makes sense now..
15:48
<alkisg>
I think the only reason to select e.g. LMDE over Debian is the default desktop environment, nothing else...
15:50
<bieb>
alkisg: one of the issues I had with 12.04 and AD.. I used likewise open on 10.04.. likewise was bought out and changed to pbis, in one of the config docs I read you had to add likewise-open-gui to the pbis install to give the gui which allowed to permanant domain setting, instead of users having to enter domain\username.. one of the first updates after getting everthing working.. removed likewise-open-gui.. so I was left with no authentication to AD and it hap
15:50
<alkisg>
bieb: messages longer than 250 characters are cut in half by IRC
15:51
...so I was left with no authentication to AD and it hap
15:51
<bieb>
my bad
15:51
so I was left with no authentication to AD and it happened the day before leaving for a conference.. so my night before was spent patching the server and just giving local accounts and autologin for my labs..
15:52
alkisg: I have seen info for Centrify, which is another package for AD authentication. don't know if anyone here has looked at it and knows good or bad on it
15:53
<alkisg>
I think companies that offer integration services like that test their software on more "common" distros, and suggest that you upgrade to latest versions only after some amount of time...
15:53
But anyway the DE shouldn't matter in this case
15:53
So Mint, Ubuntu, Debian, whatever, all the same
15:54
Just select a distro with compatible package versions
15:55
<bieb>
I just havent had enough time messing with 12.04 to find the differences and tweaks as compared to 10.04.
15:55
not sure if I should just go back to 10.04.. :|
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15:57
<alkisg>
10.04 is supported for 5 years for the server components, so it's a good choice
15:59
<bieb>
<< looking on desk for 10.04 disks..
16:02
did 11.10 move to the unity desktop?
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16:29
<alkisg>
I think so
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16:40
<bieb>
alkisg: thanks.. was just a general question.. couldnt remember which version switched
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17:35
<stgraber>
ogra_: doing some LTSP tests with armhf (using qemu-debootstrap)
17:36
I think I have pretty much all I need changed in ltsp-trunk (mostly resync with Debian). I'll check how much work will still be needed to get /var/lib/tftpboot to look like something uboot can use
17:37* vagrantc never had issues using the LTSP defaults with debian armhf
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17:37
<vagrantc>
really depends on your uboot implementation
17:38
oh wait, i've never had an armhf with a working tftp stack
17:38
<ogra_>
stgraber, oh, cool, i'm actually pxebooting a bunch of pandas right now :)
17:39
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I know that my panda likes to try and boot the i386 LTSP image here, so it shouldn't be too much work to get it to load armhf instead
17:45
<vagrantc>
proably just need a more specific PXECLient string in dhcpd.conf
17:45* vagrantc should get a pandaboard
17:46
<jocarter>
I should get one, for only one good reason...
17:46
and that's that as soon as I get a panda board, something much nicer (and cheaper) will be available the week afterwards.
17:47
I've been putting off getting a panda board for more than a year for that reason, but I decided that I can't keep stalling human progress for much longer like this.
17:47* vagrantc too
17:48
<jocarter>
I actually have one at work, for a project that's ended. maybe the company will let me have it for cheap
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18:31
<stgraber>
ogra_: for some reason LTSP was defaulting to imx51 as the default kernel for armel ;) I changed that to be omap4 for both armel and armhf, I guess that will be good for 90% of the current users ;)
18:32
will likely need to add an option to set which SoC is being used so the right kernel and config can be generated
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18:57
<ogra_>
stgraber, well, i can imageing people using beagle XM ... that would be omap not omap4
18:58
<vagrantc>
if there's no sane default, it just fails on Debian
18:59
<stgraber>
ogra_: does the XM come with an ethernet port?
19:07
<ogra_>
yep
19:07
512M 1GHz 4xUSB and eth0 on board
19:08
its the perfect cheapo thin client
19:09
<jocarter>
unless you want to run firefox as a local app :)
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19:24
<stgraber>
ogra_: do you have a boot.scr or similar around that I can use to PXE the panda?
19:24
(currently looking at rsalveti's blog post, but I figured you probably already have one around ;))
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20:05
<ogra_>
stgraber, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1125818/
20:06
<stgraber>
ogra_: yeah, the pxelinux.cfg part seems to work, the panda downloads the kernel + initrd and then it freezes
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