IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 February 2012   (all times are UTC)

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05:24
<Q-FUNK>
am I the only one for whom the server fails on ubuntu/precise?
05:36alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
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07:10
<laurei>
I have fat clients, just wanting users to view files in other users /home directories (if they have permissions), but directory doesnt seem to exist if I try to cd. Is there a file that handles the mounting of home directory, because it doesn't seem to be in fstab
07:13
I can see the /home mounted in mtab, but its obviously on a /home/usename level, not on the /home level
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07:38
<laurei>
Hi, alkisg :) is there anyway with a fat client, I can get sshfs to connect to the /home directory on the server instead of the /home/user, to enable filesharing (if permissions allow)
07:38
<alkisg>
laurei: the easiest way would be to use NFS and NFS_HOME=/home
07:38
Otherwise you may be able to do it with localapps_extra_mounts
07:39
I'd share a symlink to /home instead of /home instead, though, to prevent overlapping
07:41
You could also just set SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True, and have symlinks from /home/username/home to /home
07:42
<laurei>
yeah a symlink being followed would be sweet, it was what i just expected to happen when I created one, and it said it didntt exist
07:42
so its just a switch in some file then?
07:43
<alkisg>
Yes, man lts.conf and check the SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS paragraph
07:43
!lts.conf
07:43
<ltsp>
alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
07:44
<alkisg>
(although the manual lies, it's false by default for links under $HOME)
07:44
So just set it to True
07:44
<laurei>
looks great, i just checked the file, i can just use it in /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf and don't have to update-image right?
07:44
<alkisg>
Right
07:46
<laurei>
I'm excited, thanks:) I thought everything but /home was sent as a squashed image so was checking the chroot
07:47
<alkisg>
lts.conf is fetched via tftp, so that ltsp-update-image isn't needed on every lts.conf change
07:49
<laurei>
I see
07:53
alkisg: if the lts.conf is missing, is that meaning I should create it?
07:56
<alkisg>
Yes
08:00
<laurei>
thank you so much
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08:19* alkisg uploaded the new 0.4.1 epoptes version, with stability improvements, and the new ability to broadcast your screen in a window
08:21
<muppis>
:D
08:22* muppis is feeling lazy.
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13:52
<mgariepy>
any of you ever had issue with monitor that goes to sleep on certain boot and works correctly on others?
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14:40
<||cw>
mgariepy: I can't seem to get any to not sleep period
14:47
anyone used one of these thin clients before? http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859325005
15:09
hm, seems it's a proprietary protocol
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17:35
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey all
17:35
I have a question about the LTSP boot process
17:36
after the client boots via DHCP the first time, and the message "trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default" there's a line that says "boot:"
17:36
what is happening during the "boot:" step?
17:36
and why would a single client, out of 11 that I am testing, not be able to get past that point?
17:36
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: that's a pxelinux question, best asked in #syslinux
17:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
fair enough
17:36
<alkisg>
It's probably a problem with the keyboard, and syslinux thinks "Esc" is pressed
17:37
Try switching from ps/2 to usb keyboard or vice versa
17:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
hahaha
17:37
good show. The crtl key was being depressed by another keyboard on top
17:37
<alkisg>
Hehe :)
17:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, thanks
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19:55
<alkisg>
komunista: were you asking about epoptes translations? Slovak has 18 untranslated messages...
19:55
<komunista>
alkisg: yes
19:55
I ask, if there was some as call for translation
19:55
<alkisg>
Yes, until yesterday :)
19:56
We released the new version today
19:56
<komunista>
:-)
19:56
<alkisg>
But no worries we'll have other releases soon
19:56
<komunista>
hmm, but in last day it stops to work for me under Squeeze
19:57
no error messages in log, all seems to work, only no clients in epoptes window
19:57
<alkisg>
Did you upgrade from epoptes 0.3.x to 0.4.0 ?
19:57
If so, you need to update your certificate, see the news in epoptes.org
19:57
I.e. `epoptes-client -c ` in the chroot, + ltsp-update-image
19:58
*err no update-image necessary in debian :)
19:58
<komunista>
I have no epoptes-client in chroot
19:58
<alkisg>
You need that, see www.epoptes.org/installation
19:58
<komunista>
it is mandatory?
19:58
<alkisg>
Yes
19:58
To be able to control the clients before login
19:58
And for broadcast to work
19:59
<komunista>
yes I read this, but it seems only for power on/shotdown clients
19:59
<alkisg>
Otherwise you can still see the clients but only after login
19:59
No it's for broadcasting too
19:59
<komunista>
for me is enough to see clients after login :-)
19:59
<alkisg>
To broadcast the "teacher" screen
19:59
OK then
19:59
<komunista>
but I see nothing :-(
20:00
in log I see that client was connected, but nothing happens
20:00
<alkisg>
Do you have access to your server to run some commands?
20:00
<komunista>
yes
20:01
<alkisg>
dpkg-query -W epoptes epoptes-client
20:01
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-query -W epoptes-client
20:01
*su, in your case :)
20:02
openssl x509 -text -in /etc/epoptes/server.crt | grep 'Not After'
20:02
Those 3 commands... what's their output?
20:02
<komunista>
openssl under chroot?
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20:02
<alkisg>
No, on the server
20:03
<komunista>
openssl x509 -text -in /etc/epoptes/server.crt | grep 'Not After'
20:03
Not After : Jan 31 20:01:18 2017 GMT
20:03
<alkisg>
...and in the chroot too, yeah
20:03
:)
20:04
<komunista>
I have no openssl under chroot
20:04
<alkisg>
What's the output of the dpkg-query commands?
20:04
<komunista>
dpkg-query -W epoptes epoptes-client
20:04
epoptes 0.4.1~lucid1
20:04
epoptes-client 0.4.1~lucid1
20:04
on server
20:05
dpkg-query -W epoptes-client
20:05
epoptes-client
20:05
under chroot
20:05
<alkisg>
Ah you have the new version
20:05
Did you reboot the clients after you updated epoptes on the server today?
20:05
There's no "reconnect" feature... :)
20:06
<komunista>
I updated it, but it doesn't work with 4.0 too
20:06
<alkisg>
(if the connection is lost on ltsp, the client dies, so we thought we'd save some ram)
20:06
Can you try this command from a thin client?
20:06
epoptes-client
20:06
Run it from a terminal, and check its output
20:07
(normal gnome-terminal inside the X session)
20:07
<komunista>
I am sorry, no thin clients now, here is night and I connect to server from home only
20:08
<alkisg>
Do you have any thin clients powered on?
20:08
(remotely, the ones that you can't see from epoptes)
20:09
<komunista>
I was debug this in last week and there was socat (with epoptes-client) processes for all clients running
20:10
no, I have no running client now, it secondary (if I proper in english) school :-)
20:11
<alkisg>
OK, check the new 0.4.1 version tomorrow, it should be running fine. If not, ping me when you have a break, so that I help you debug it. :)
20:11
<komunista>
OK, thanks :-)
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20:50
<ba>
hi! is it somehow possible to stream WIndows XP through NBD-Server and LTSP?
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20:54
<||cw>
ba: not unless you can convince the XP kernel to use NBD as a storage controller
20:55
maybe it's been done. I don't know.
20:56
<alkisg>
You can send an XP virtual machine to be executed with e.g. vbox
20:56
So that the clients only see Windows, no linux whatsoever
20:59
<||cw>
iscsi might be a better option for windows. I think certain PCIe intel nic support iscsi booting from a network LUN
20:59
for iscsi server, I'd recommend scst
21:00
I think I've seen some gpxe hacks for iscsi as well
21:02
<alkisg>
iscsi enables windows to boot over lan, but it doesn't help in booting them over different hardware
21:02
So ba would need a different iscsi image for each client
21:02
While with a VM, you can have a single VM for all clients
21:02
Without caring about their actual hardware, drivers etc
21:04
<||cw>
and clone it out, yes.
21:04
though you do take a serious performance hit if you need autocad or any adobe stuff
21:04
<alkisg>
No need for cloning, a single VM can boot any number of clients
21:05
And with the 3d accelleration it shouldn't suffer much
21:05
<||cw>
vbox doens't have a windows 3d drivers
21:05
and, vm images are disk images, you need one for each client. you can use linked clones though
21:06
though i don't know to do that with vbox. it's how xendesktop and vmware's VDI work
21:06
personally, I'd just run a vm and use rdesktop to get at it
21:06
<alkisg>
The base vm image can be read only if you have rw snapshots on top of it
21:06
<||cw>
yeah, tha's linked clones
21:07
<alkisg>
No, linked clones is functionality offered by vbox
21:07
<||cw>
you have a snapshot for each cllient
21:07
<alkisg>
The other one is playing tricks with the file system :)
21:07
I was preparing an LTSP screen script for that
21:07
Yes, a snapshot for each client, generated dynamically on boot
21:07
<||cw>
for local vbox launching a windows vm?
21:07
sounds pretty cool
21:08
<alkisg>
So that if the sysadmin installs a program in the main VM, the clients get it on the next boot
21:08
Yes, exactly
21:08
Vbox has experimental 3d support, I've never actually tried it, and vmware says it has good 3d support
21:08
<||cw>
vmware's seems stable, it's weak though
21:09
<alkisg>
Vbox also has pci passthrough
21:09
<||cw>
I haven't tried it on View or WS 8 yet though
21:09
<alkisg>
So I imagine one could install the drivers for his actual card
21:09
<||cw>
need to put a real vid card in my workstation
21:09
<ba>
but how? I mean..how would you streamt he VBox image?
21:09
<||cw>
yeah, you need 2 cards to passthrough one
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21:10
<alkisg>
ba: with any file system offered by linux... nbd, nfs, sshfs, whatever
21:10
<ba>
alkisg, so I would first, install VBOx on a server. Install VM's there. Install LTSP right? Then...I can't imagine what.
21:11
alkisg, I mean..how to tell VBox to use remote display and remote devices (like mouse, keyboard at least)
21:11
<||cw>
heh
21:11
<alkisg>
Those will be local, not remote
21:11
The client will boot a bit of linux, sent by ltsp
21:11
<||cw>
ba: have you not setup a thin client yet? and tried adding apps to the thin image?
21:11
<alkisg>
Then it will load the windows vm
21:12
And the VM will run locally, like running virtualbox fullscreen under your local os, windows, etc
21:13
<ba>
||cw I did many things with LTSP
21:14
alkisg, that's right. The most important question is..what's that "a bit of LInux"
21:14
alkisg, I mean..it whould have something like a VirtualBox client?
21:14
<alkisg>
That's an ltsp thin client with vbox as a localapp
21:14
<||cw>
ba: I think you install vbox in the client image
21:14
<ba>
alkisg, ah sshii.. :)) Got it.
21:14
<||cw>
then make a screen script, like the rdesktop one, that launches the vm
21:15
still requires a beefy client, but you can remove the HDD
21:15
<ba>
yes. the client must be powerful.
21:16
I have only 500Mhz with 1Gb of RAM
21:16
<||cw>
eyah that aint gonna cut it. rdesktop would be faster than native anyway
21:17
I had XP on a via 500, made it ltsp and rdp to a vm, it's faster
21:17
<ba>
||cw, I am having issues with rdesktop and even latest freerdp. A quite jerky scrolling in browsers..not to tell about Flash
21:17
<||cw>
scrolling is fine for me. what video card?
21:18
<ba>
Chrome9 HC3
21:18
<||cw>
crappy xorg driver for rage and i810 is the cause of most of the web page issues I've seen here
21:18
<ba>
||cw, using the most recent stable version of video driver. This thing is just killing me :(
21:18
<||cw>
my via's are unichrome pro II
21:19
I have one with a 1Ghz 586 clone that's got a XGI Z9s that works well too
21:20
these 2 are most of what I use, besides some SFF p4's http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=detail&prod_num=1EBX33A&aisle_id=1070 http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=detail&prod_num=1EBX43K&aisle_id=1043
21:20
the 3300 requires injecting a nic driver into the thin image
21:20
<alkisg>
ba, if you only have 1 client, and it's such a low-end one, you'll get better performance with AoE or iSCSI
21:21
<||cw>
which is a pain, since the kernel proper has the driver, and just ubuntu doesn't compile it
21:22
<ba>
||cw, that's mine http://www.google.kg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Futro+s+100+ethernet+Engadget&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2009%2F07%2F18%2Ffujitsus-sleek-futro-s100-gets-via-eden-implant%2F&ei=Aq0pT4WCCYft-gbcmtmVBQ&usg=AFQjCNGchHizlk1u2Q6i_IihONvEhLywrw
21:22
oops
21:22
||cw, http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/18/fujitsus-sleek-futro-s100-gets-via-eden-implant/
21:22
alkisg, currently I am using Citrix Provisioning Services and it's working fine though yet.
21:23
<alkisg>
So you can see fullscreen video without problems?
21:23
<ba>
||cw, can you llok at private dialog
21:23
alkisg, yes it's DirectX 9 capable and it can play fullscreen video files
21:24
<alkisg>
Ah, it executes the applications locally? I thought citrix provided remote-desktop-based solutions...
21:25
<ba>
alkisg, they provide remote desktop solutions of course. PVS is just another way to solve the problems
21:25
alkisg, With their XenDesktop I am having another problems so I decided to go in another way...
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21:26
<ba>
alkisg, I have created a simple chroot with ICA client installed and it was able to boot remote desktops. It could play fullscreen videos also with HD audio
21:26
alkisg, just had big problems with USB redirection and instability of all this stuff.
21:27
<alkisg>
I see... I wonder how they can stream videos to such low-end clients... I suppose one server should be able to serve many clients in parallel, so live video compression wouldn't be an option...
21:28
<ba>
alkisg, why not? they do decoding on the client side I guess
21:29
alkisg, it's just their excelltn ICA protocol which is really the best
21:29
<alkisg>
Suppose I have a screensaver, 1024x768, 24bpp, 30 fps
21:30
To compress that, stream it, so that the client can decode it, that would require e.g. a whole core on a modern system (probably more)
21:30
So I don't know how many clients could be served by a single server
21:31
I've heard people saying how good ica is, but I don't believe it until i see it with my own eyes
21:31
<ba>
alkisg, go ahead and test :)
21:31
<alkisg>
On the other hand, if a video is played with a video player, they may have appropriate hooks to get the video before it's decoded at all, and stream it without wasting cpu
21:32
<ba>
alkisg, I am telling you that Futro S100 thin client can do HD video with ICA fullscreen (720p)
21:32
alkisg, dont' foget about GPU on the client end
21:32
alkisg, it's DirectX 9 capable
21:32
<alkisg>
Decoding is fast, I don't even think about it
21:32
Encoding is very slow, that's what gets me worried
21:33
Apart from video hooks, I can't see how they'd be able to compress videos for dozens of clients, realtime
21:34
<ba>
alkisg, the server surely must be powerful
21:34
alkisg, but we don't have a powerful GPU though
21:34
alkisg, a huge amount of RAM and powerful 24 core CPU (Xen)
21:35
alkisg, (Xeon)
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21:36
<ba>
alkisg, but I am having a lot of problems with Citrix. It's either because I was not ready to work with this beast or it's just overly complicated shit.
21:37
<||cw>
Citrix overly complicated?! no!
21:37
<alkisg>
I also wonder how much more powerful your server is compared to e.g. my core 2 duo laptop @ 2.2 GHz. 10 times faster? So if my laptop can encode 1 video realtime, your server could do 10? Not bad, it could serve many clients then...
21:39
<ba>
alkisg, their estimate is about 3 VM's per core
21:40
alkisg, your machine could, in theory, serve 6 desktop machines
21:40
<alkisg>
With LTSP I can serve about 10 thin clients or 20 fat clients
21:40
<ba>
alkisg, your clients are using Linux desktop?
21:40
<alkisg>
Yeah
21:41
But of course thin clients can't see fullscreen youtube videos. Fat clients can.
21:41
<ba>
alkisg, your users don't use MS Office and other WIn programs?
21:42
<alkisg>
We switched about 250 schools to linux, so they mostly don't use ms programs anymore
21:42
They do have a few programs that we run under wine
21:42
<ba>
alkisg, great! my environment is not that easy.
21:42* ba sigh
21:45
<alkisg>
'night all. vagrantc: if you have some free time to upload epoptes, I'll buy you a beer at the next BTS :)
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