IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 January 2010   (all times are UTC)

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09:08
<sbalneav>
!s
09:08
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:08
<sbalneav>
fixed
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09:09
<sbalneav>
jelly-bean: This has been covered several times on the mailing list, I beleive.
09:09
<etyack>
!e
09:09
<ltspbot>
etyack: Error: "e" is not a valid command.
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09:38
<bieb1>
?
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09:41
<jammcq>
bom dia meu amigos
09:41
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
hi jammcq!
09:41
<jammcq>
how's all my friends doing?
09:42
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
jammcq: if you would like to join us here: http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/prod/training/ltspBootCamp.html , we would love to have you.
09:43
<jammcq>
hmm, cool
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10:25
<prpplague>
jammcq: hey bud, what's cookin?
10:25
<jammcq>
prpplague: hey
10:25
how you doing?
10:26
<prpplague>
jammcq: not too bad
10:26
<jammcq>
you still around Dallas?
10:26
<prpplague>
jammcq: yep, ended up going into biz for myself back in august
10:26
jammcq: and you?
10:27
<jammcq>
oh wow
10:27
i'm still up here in good old COLD michigan
10:27
<prpplague>
http://www.rad-tech-labs.com
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10:28
<jammcq>
prpplague: nice
10:29
prpplague: business good?
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10:29
<prpplague>
jammcq: so far pretty decent, still working on the marketing/sales side of things
10:30
<jammcq>
cool
10:30
nice clean website
10:30
I like that
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10:31
<prpplague>
jammcq: yea, didn't want something hard to navigate
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10:44juub has joined #ltsp
10:44* juub tips his hat.
10:45
<juub>
Is anyone aware of existing projects making use of LTSP as a HTPC solution?
10:45dro has joined #ltsp
10:46
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: home theater?
10:46
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: yup
10:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: It's possible to do with localapps.
10:48
<juub>
Do forgive my ignorance, I've not looked at LTSP at all beyond bookmarking ltsp.org and reading its front page.
10:49
<ogra>
juub, mythbuntu has an LTSP install mode
10:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: would you be displaying HD content (1080p)?
10:49
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: ideally.
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10:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: do you have some hardware specs in mind for your ideal HT client?
10:50
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: that's what I'm going over now. I was just thinking that I should also investigate the possibility of taking advantage of the server/client model of X, which then immediately reminded me of LTSP. It's possible I should read up on LTSP more first.
10:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: with HD content, I would advise a large amount of RAM, and a nice video card.
10:51
<juub>
of course.
10:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
I'm not sure about how surround sound/SPDIF output works with ubuntu (never tried it) but that's something to consider as well.
10:51
<juub>
I suppose one can't get around that, huh, even if the rendering stage is done elsewhere?
10:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
rendering 1080p across the network would not be a good experience for you.
10:52
<juub>
WiFi to boot ;)
10:52
WiFi is the tightest bottleneck in the project, at the moment.
10:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
PXE boot over wifi is not presently something that, to my knowledge, exists as of now
10:53
<juub>
Good to know.
10:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
so you would be relegated to a normal cat5 line or nothing when it comes to LTSP
10:53
<juub>
Indeed.
10:53
Kind of goes without saying if WiFi isn't available...
10:53
<dro>
juub: you could probably use a wireless bridge if you absolutely had to use wifi
10:54* _UsUrPeR_ points to dro
10:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
he has a point.
10:54
though HD content would have to be handled on a N network. I'm not sure G has enough bandwidth available
10:54
<dro>
they go router-->bridge wired into router ~~~~~wireless~~~~~ bridge plugged into nic of local pc
10:55
a wireless n bridge won't be cheap
10:55
<juub>
Ah, indeed.
10:55
That is a good point.
10:55
<dro>
juub: hardwire it lol
10:55
<_UsUrPeR_>
I would hardwire it. Save money :)
10:55
<juub>
I believe I have a spare wireless router kicking around too.
10:55
Well...
10:55
hardwire means giving up my hardwire :P
10:55
Different apartments...
10:56
<dro>
routers are super cheap
10:56
<juub>
Especially the one collecting dust on my electronics bench.
10:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
bridges are where the money s at though. wireless N bridge will cost some $$$
10:57
<dro>
even a wireless n router is going to be $70 or higher probably
10:57
<juub>
Well, with projects like OpenWRT, turning my spare wireless router into an accesspoint should serve the same purpose as what dro illustrated.
10:58
<dro>
bridges and access points are different
10:58
<juub>
I'm aware.
10:58
<dro>
you can't put a wireless card in the ltsp client, well you can but it won't connect wirelessly....it will fail to boot
10:58
but if you can convert your router into a bridge....that would be cool
10:59
<juub>
I was, perhaps erroneously, concluding that the point of the bridge was getting the connection into the local wired port.
10:59
<dro>
juub: that is correct
11:00
<juub>
Right, so what I"m proposing with the spare wireless router should work... since the wireless router has wired ports. LTSP -> wired port on spare router -> spare router acting as access point connecting to main router...
11:00
or maybe I mean bridge instead of access point...
11:00* juub shrugs
11:00
<juub>
I should have been asleep several hours ago.
11:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: though this still requires you to consider true HD content's bandwidth requirements
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11:02
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: yup
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11:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
if you were to, say, put a blu-ray reader on your server in order to play content on your TV, attempting to do that wirelessly would cause quite a lot of headaches
11:03
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: I'm sure.
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11:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
the same goes for 720p encoded xvid/divx content
11:03
<juub>
I was planning on (thinking of) putting a blu-ray player in the client.
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11:04
<juub>
What about doing some nasty compression/decompression, and just ensuring audio syncs? Or would simply displaying the images be enough of a workout for the CPU?
11:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
so at this point, when considering the complexities of an LTSP environment, compared to just throwing a hard drive in the HTPC, which would you go with?
11:05* ogra would still go with mythbuntu ;)
11:05
<ogra>
they use compressed transport
11:06
<juub>
_UsUrPeR_: complexities shmonplexities, it still sounds fun.
11:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
well if that's the case, carry on. You'll have a blast :)
11:06
<juub>
Especially if it reduces the client build by a few hundred dollars.
11:07
Besides, I never said I /was/ doing an LTSP-HTPC build, I asked if anyone was aware of an existing project.
11:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
true
11:07* _UsUrPeR_ points towards mythbuntu
11:09
<juub>
Based on my limited understanding of LTSP, I'm thinking something like Tinycorelinux is better suitted for it.
11:09
<ogra>
i doubt anyone integrated LTSP into it
11:10
LTSP as it is since five years needs deep distro integration
11:10
only ubuntu, debian, fedora and gentoo have that yet ... and there is the opensuse kiwi fork
11:11* juub nods
11:11
<juub>
Yeah, I definitely need to read up on LTSP.
11:12
Well explained in the upstream manual, I presume.
11:12
<ogra>
yeah, the one from the topic
11:13
<juub>
Aye, also pointed to through ltsp.org
11:13
well, the documentation link (eventually)
11:15
Ooh, I bet this would be a good place to ask. Do you gentlemen know of any good retailers for the Mini-ITX form factor (aside from newegg/tigerdirect, and USA based)?
11:17
<ogra>
disklessworkstations.com ?
11:17
<juub>
I'll take a look, thanks.
11:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
juub: typically most people in here will be purchasing standalone clients. http://www.disklessworkstations.com (which I am affiliated with) sells full clients, but not individual hardware
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11:20
<juub>
Your cases look so much nicer than what I've found elsewhere :\
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11:26
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
juub: glad you like them :)
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11:32
<dro>
i love those workstations
11:32
my stubborn boss just won't buy them
11:32
lol
11:33
<ogra>
did you tell him he actively supports the software development through buying them ?
11:34
thats a good way to give back to the coders ;)
11:37
<dro>
ogra: yes but he's all about the bottom dollar
11:38
<ogra>
not a good citizen then :)
11:38
<johnny>
the bottom dollar is better ltsp..
11:38
err better ltsp is better for the bottom dollar rather
11:38
<dro>
he had a customer with a low budget, sold them wyse clients, with 1 esx server to hold 2 windows terminal servers
11:38
<ogra>
++
11:39
<dro>
trust me.....i kicked him more than a few times
11:39
but we also stumbled across those thin clients after he already quoted the wyse....next time around we're going to look at disklessworkstations
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12:33
<mhterres>
hello everybody
12:33
where can I get LTSP Build Environment (LBE) ?
12:33
<johnny>
i don't even know what it is
12:33
<jammcq>
hey marcelo
12:33
<johnny>
is it some product i've never heard of?
12:33
<jammcq>
LBE is from LTSP-4.2
12:34
<mhterres>
hey jammcq
12:35
I need to update an old LTSP 4.2 installation with a kernel that supports atom TCs with realtek 8111/8168B NICs
12:36
Hey Jim, everything works fine now that you change IP in your fw ?
12:36
<jammcq>
mhterres: yep :)
12:40
<alkisg>
shawnp0wers: got any luck with those 32MB ram clients yet?
12:40
<johnny>
lol
12:40
<shawnp0wers>
no, I actually had total system failure yesterday, and was here until 10PM
12:40
itwas...
12:40
odd
12:41* alkisg is curious because we also have a lot of those here :)
12:41
<shawnp0wers>
so I haven' tried yet
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12:44
<johnny>
alkisg, if you were able to get ubuntu or debian with a tinier libc and then compiled a custom kernel, you might be able to accomplish it..
12:45
of course.. that would also depend on ldm and ltspfs compiling under something that isn't glibc
12:45
<alkisg>
johnny: well, that's why I'm waiting to see how shawnp0wers fares :D
12:46* alkisg is calling ltsp-build-client --fat-client for the 20th time today... :(
12:47
<shawnp0wers>
alkisg: I expect to fail, sadly.
12:48
<alkisg>
Yeah the only distro I was able to run in those PCs was delilinux... maybe an X -query on top of that would be possible
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12:49
<shawnp0wers>
That's how I got my old PowerMac 5500s to work. Installed a minimal yellowdog install, then just has X -query to the server.
12:50
I might try that, but I'll have to get a simple distro that will boot via etherboot
12:50
in fact, maybe that's the way to go
12:50
of course, they won't get LDM will they?
12:50* shawnp0wers will have to explore that option
12:50
<shawnp0wers>
maybe thinstation
12:51
perhaps it will allow a direct-to-X -query thing
12:51
then set up the Ubuntu server to accept XDMC requests...
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12:55
<waranha>
my workstations work normally by PXE mode, but the workstations in FLOPPY mode not load the LDM. Can someone help me ?
13:02
<shawnp0wers>
waranha: You mean like, etherboot floppies?
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13:02
<shawnp0wers>
are you using gPXE?
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13:05
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: boot camp, eh? :)
13:05
<waranha>
I get rom's of rom-o-matic and save a image file to floppy disk (zdsk).. My last version of ltsp (4) already working with the floppy disk
13:05
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey, how's it going?
13:05
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
vagrantc: as in boot your thin client, and boot your sys admin skills w/ LTSP into great shape :)
13:06
perhaps it should have been "Dual Boot Camp" haha
13:07
<vagrantc>
jammcq: hi!
13:07
CAN-o-SPAM_: heh
13:08
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
vagrantc: if you can come, please feel free
13:08
<vagrantc>
i should make a more formal proposal to piggyback an ltsp hackfest before/after debconf in july and/or august...
13:09
<jammcq>
vagrantc: there's already a debian-edu workshop just before debconf
13:09
but... scotty and I will have just gotten back from brazil. it'll be very difficult for either of us to be there.
13:09
<vagrantc>
ouch
13:09
jammcq: when's that?
13:09
<jammcq>
although it's not exactly a big deal if I'm not at a hackfest. I'm sure the same amount of hacking would happen anyway
13:10
FISL-11 is July 21-24, but we usually stay a few extra days, so we wouldn't be back until around 28th or 29th
13:10
and debconf is Aug 1-7
13:10
I'm kinda bummed, I was hoping to make debconf this year
13:11
<vagrantc>
jammcq: couldn't sneak in something the 2nd week of august?
13:11
<Gadi>
no way we hack in NY without Jim and Scotty
13:11
<jammcq>
it'll be tough, but I'll see if I can do something
13:11
<Gadi>
u know how long Ive waited for this?
13:12
:)
13:12
<vagrantc>
heh
13:12
<jammcq>
but getting scotty would be even trickier
13:12
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
NY?!?! I'm pulling for Michigan!!!! Lets go great lakes
13:12
<vagrantc>
jammcq: not if we concoct a master plan?
13:12
<Gadi>
we can just tell him its winnipeg
13:12
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: well, the debian conference is in nyc, so i'll be there no matter what
13:12
<Gadi>
and keep him indoors
13:12
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ah i see
13:13
<vagrantc>
like to piggyback conferences to pull extra momentum
13:13
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
jammcq: things are looking good for FISL for me this year ... i mean, theres no wedding so thats a plus :)
13:13* vagrantc keeps forgetting about FISL
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13:14
<jammcq>
CAN-o-SPAM_: awesome. maybe you can drag your father along too
13:14
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
jammcq: we'd better start pushing it now then ;)
13:14
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hmm, "master plan".... I like the sound of that
13:15
<vagrantc>
i haven't seen y'all since august 2008
13:15
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Gadi: hows the little one doing?
13:15
<Gadi>
thank God - just had his 3-month-old checkup
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13:16
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i think that translates into good? and if so, good!
13:16
<Gadi>
thank you for asking
13:16
:)
13:16
yeah
13:16
now he's impervious to polio
13:16
:)
13:16
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
thats a +
13:16
<jammcq>
no polio... coolio
13:17
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
heh
13:17
<alkisg>
waranha: did you download the gpxe floppy or the etherboot floppy?
13:19
vagrantc: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m2c895f7f - it works fine as much as I can tell (I'm having problems with the fat client plugin so I've yet to see ltsp-build-client finish properly)
13:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: looks good to me :)
13:21
alkisg: i can test it out tomorrow
13:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sure, thanks, and if you could even commit it you'd save me from looking at my logs for the proper bzr commands :)
13:23
(I also removed the special check from 090-clean-package-cache)
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13:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, as i was saying...
13:37
alkisg: i'd be happy to see more commits from you, so i hope you'll learn the appropriate commands :)
13:37
<alkisg>
Uh, ok, I'll wait for your feedback tomorrow and commit then :)
13:38* alkisg sighs and searches his bzr logs... :-/
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14:17
<jelly-bean1>
ok
14:17
alkisg i think it was u
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14:17
<jelly-bean1>
who said to com back after i figured out rdp rdesktop boot with ltsp
14:17
using lts.conf
14:17
and i did that
14:17
but now i want to give the users a choice to boot windows (via) or linux (via ubuntu ltsp thin client)
14:17
whats the best way to do that?
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14:20
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: I don't think I was involved in any rdesktop conversations recently... Anyway, a way to do it is to put SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_08=rdesktop
14:20
The users will be able to switch with alt+ctrl+f7/f8
14:22
<jelly-bean1>
ah ok
14:22
i was thinking that too actually
14:22
sweet
14:23
windows server 2008 r2 is supposed to support using aero glass effects over rdp
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14:25
<stgraber>
let's see if I got that nbd-proxy thing to work as I want ;)
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14:26
<vagrantc>
heh
14:28
<pem725>
any hints on troubleshooting tftp problems? my thin clients no longer boot and get timed out at TFTP. Everything worked great for months.
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14:45
<Gadi>
pem725: do you have another dhcp network on that subnet somehwere now?
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14:57
<pem725>
Gadi, no there are no other dhcp servers to my knowledge.
14:58
in fact, the dhcp addresses are being assigned with no problem.
14:59
my errors are after the addresses are assigned and the client searches for the TFTP server.
14:59
any hints?
15:00
<Gadi>
pem725: well, they are assigned, but not necessarily by the right dhcp server (if there are others)
15:01
<pem725>
true, but I am getting the addresses from my dhcp.conf file.
15:01
<Gadi>
basically, either:
15:01
<pem725>
I use static ip's
15:01hersonls has quit IRC
15:01
<Gadi>
ah
15:01
did you happen to uninstall openbsd-inetd?
15:01
<pem725>
good question though.
15:01
nope
15:01
<Gadi>
or install xinetd by accident?
15:01
<pem725>
it is still installed.
15:01
at least to the best of my knowledge.
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15:01
<pem725>
the init.d file is still in place.
15:01
<Gadi>
dpkg -l|grep inetd
15:01
what comes up?
15:02
<pem725>
I get openbsd-inetd and update-inetd both installed.
15:02
<Gadi>
no xinetd, right?
15:02
<pem725>
nope
15:02
<Gadi>
how about: sudo netstat -anp|grep :2000
15:03
oops
15:03
I mean
15:03
sudo netstat -anp|grep :69
15:03
<pem725>
udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 14703/inetd
15:03
strange, huh?
15:03
<Gadi>
looks good
15:03
<pem725>
everything seems fine.
15:03
yeah.
15:03
<jelly-bean1>
does ltsp thin client run ANYTHING on the local machine? e.g. using a ramdisk or something? and can i control which apps get run locally vs on the server (consequently causing load on the server)
15:04
<Gadi>
jelly-bean1: look at LOCAL_APPS
15:04
in the docs
15:04
pem725: grep next-server /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
15:05
<pem725>
commented out line.
15:05
so no next-server.
15:05
should I have one?
15:05
<Gadi>
try making that the ltsp server
15:05
and restart dhcp3-server
15:05
next-server == the tftp server
15:07
<pem725>
OK, I'm giving it a go..
15:07
<Gadi>
at various points in time, dhcp3-server went through phases of using the dhcp server address for next server by default or leaving it empty
15:07
so, in some iterations you needed to specify and in some you didnt
15:08
they couldnt quite make up their minds
15:08
:)
15:08
<pem725>
awesome!
15:08
it works now.
15:08
<Gadi>
cool
15:08
<pem725>
that is very strange.
15:08
I really appreciate your hep.
15:08
help that is...
15:09
<Gadi>
I think it is commented out by default when we ship ltsp as one less line someone needs to modify
15:09
but then, dhcp3-server decides that it wants you to be explicit again
15:09
:)
15:09
<pem725>
thanks again.
15:09
<Gadi>
np
15:09
<pem725>
I will keep it explicit from now on.
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15:27
<vagrantc>
stgraber: have you talked to nbd upstream about the nbd-proxy stuff?
15:27
stgraber: might be good to get it integrated
15:27
stgraber: i'm also thinking, to avoid namespace collisions in binaries, we might want to call it ltsp-nbd-proxy
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15:41
<stgraber>
vagrantc: well, I haven't heard of upstream planning to work on a nbd-proxy, so I don't think we have to worry about a namespace collision here, also, I plan to make nbd-proxy a separate source package at some point as it's not really ltsp-only
15:41
<Gadi>
stgraber: while ur messing with nbd server detection stuff....
15:41
<vagrantc>
stgraber: all the more reason to not have namespace collisions
15:41
<Gadi>
what do you think about having the initramfs write the nbd server to a file in rootfs space and having ltsp_config source that file?
15:42
would wliminate all the greps and ps calls and such
15:42
<vagrantc>
stgraber: but i am fairly certain Yoe would at least be interested in the nbd-proxy and what issues it works around.
15:42
<stgraber>
Gadi: that's a very very good idea actually ;)
15:42
<Gadi>
it happens from time to time ;)
15:42
<jelly-bean1>
Gadi: how can i configure the thin clients to run firefox locally all the time instaed of having to type ltsp-localapps firefox
15:42
i have to update their gnome icon shortcuts?
15:43
or is there an easier way
15:43
<Gadi>
LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
15:43
<jelly-bean1>
like symlinking from the chroot usr/bin
15:43
<vagrantc>
Gadi: it's slightly harder to implement for systems that are not read-write...
15:43
<jelly-bean1>
oh
15:43
<vagrantc>
Gadi: though we could handle some of that in initramfs too
15:43
i.e. create a read-writeable space
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15:44
<Gadi>
vagrantc: well, the "ps" stuff can still be in there for crippled systems ;)
15:44
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I'd write this file in ltsp_nbd and the old code will only be used when that file doesn't exist
15:44
<Gadi>
thats why I asked a few weeks ago whether anyone but ubuntu uses nbd
15:45
<vagrantc>
stgraber: fair enough
15:45
<Gadi>
right
15:45
<vagrantc>
Gadi: there's support in debian and fedora, but not enabled by default
15:45
<Gadi>
just as I imagines
15:45
*imagined
15:45
right
15:45
we can always catch things with a slower but working method
15:45
while having another method that speeds things up
15:46
<vagrantc>
but i actually like the idea of writing up some code to enable a writeable space in initramfs...
15:46
<Gadi>
the trick is writing it somewhere in rootfs space that is not mounted over
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15:46
<vagrantc>
could just make /etc/ltsp/* writeable, copying over whatever's there.
15:47
<Gadi>
even in ubuntu, normal places like /var/run/ and such will have a tmpfs mounted over it during init (i think)
15:47
<vagrantc>
if it's just for configuration stuff
15:47
<Gadi>
right
15:47
/etc/ltsp/ltsp_config
15:47
and have ltsp_config source it
15:47
<stgraber>
/var would make a lot more sense for variable/cached data ;)
15:48
<Gadi>
I agree
15:48
but, /var/run will become a mountpoint, no?
15:48
<stgraber>
yes, but not /var/cache
15:48
<Gadi>
perfect
15:48
/var/cache/ltsp_config
15:50
<jelly-bean1>
what form to i have to specify to get lts.conf settings per mac address [00:21:91:90:b7:89] or [00219190b789] or soemthing else?
15:50
<Gadi>
the former
15:52
<vagrantc>
Gadi: /var/cache/ltsp/ltsp_config
15:52
Gadi: that will allow other /var/cache/ltsp/* if we ever come up with anything.
15:52* Gadi nods
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17:12
<stgraber>
ok, current ltsp and ldm are in a usable state
17:16
<vagrantc>
stgraber: got a couple more translations to commit
17:21
<stgraber>
feel free, I'm not planning on tagging today as alkisg wanted to submit a fat client patch before tagging
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