IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 May 2013   (all times are UTC)

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09:50
<BBrain>
hi all
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10:01
<alkisg>
Hello
10:05
<BBrain>
wei alkisg :D
10:10
something strange happends to my server...
10:11
is a fresh install, but i obtain the busybox console from the thinclient...
10:12
<alkisg>
Was it working before?
10:12
<BBrain>
nope is the first start
10:13
<alkisg>
!quiet-splash
10:13
<ltsp>
quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
10:13
<alkisg>
Remove the splash part, and then mention the last message you see on the client before it drops to busybox
10:14
<BBrain>
ah...ok...
10:18
i can put # like a comment?
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10:21
<BBrain>
ok, removed
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10:43
<BBrain>
:( does not work
10:43
<ogra_>
it still shows a splash ?
10:44
<BBrain>
yup, i already update the client image
10:44
<ogra_>
no need for that
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10:45
<ogra_>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default is handled before the client image comes into play
10:45
that only handles the boot parameters
10:45
<BBrain>
uhm...
10:47
<ogra_>
if you dropped quiet and splash (as in removed completely from the line) and if your client uses this file, you should not see any splash and a lot of text output during boot of the client
10:49
so if you removed them completely and still see a splash, that sounds a bit like you dont use that file during boot
10:51
<BBrain>
my line is: append ro initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nbd0 init=/sbin/init-ltsp nbdroot=:ltsp_i386
10:51
is this correct?
10:51
<ogra_>
looks fine
10:53
<BBrain>
uhm...i see the splash as usual...
10:53
sgrunt :P
10:55
i see at boot the TFTP prefix: /ltsp/amd64/ but i need to load the i386 image...
10:55
:(
10:55
<ogra_>
aha
10:55
<BBrain>
i missed some thing on the way...
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11:38
<lifeboy>
alkisg: You have a moment to give me advice on how to get my clients to login without getting the key having to updated after each reboot?
11:42* lifeboy sees alkisg is working at the moment.
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11:46
<lifeboy>
Anyone that knows what to do when I have to use "LDM_SERVER=server" in lts.conf to get the clients to connect to the server with ssh? After a reboot of the client, the users are told that a new key had been added to ssh_known_hosts and the have to enter their password again. It's not a train smash, but I'd like to remove that step if possible.
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12:10
<Hyperbyte>
lifeboy, I think:
12:11
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
12:11
<ltsp>
ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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13:11
<joules>
hello, when I plug a usb/removable device into the server, every user gets a popup on their client and none of them are members of plugdev, any suggestions to disable the ability of theses users to mount this device?
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13:11
<lifeboy>
Hyperbyte: I have the 'fortunate' opportunity to learn more about LTSP than I had thought would be necessary! :-) I need to run a 32bit Ubuntu 10.04 kernel for my client on a 64bit Ubuntu 12.04 server. It all works now, but there are still some snags that bug me. One of them is this problem. Alkisg suggest I use LDM_SERVER=server in lts.conf to allow the key to be updated when the user attempts to log in. Apparently 10.04 and
13:11
12.04 store keys different, the former using the ip address and the latter server names.
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13:18
<joules>
http://serverfault.com/questions/152434/how-to-disable-cd-rom-and-usb-for-normal-users-in-linux
13:18
this is a joke, sometimes i wonder about linux.
13:19
Someones with a client, I plug a @#DFking backup drive into the server and everyone gets to mount it, ridiculous.
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13:30
<lifeboy>
joules: I have seen that often. I suppose it has something to do with the groups that a user belongs to in /etc/group ?
13:31
<joules>
no
13:31
its been bugging me for months, every now and then when I have some extra time I try to remedy it.
13:34
<alkisg>
joules: where is the cdrom inserted? thin clients, fat clients, or the server?
13:35
If you mean that you insert a device on the server, and all thin client users see it, then it's a group issue, like lifeboy said
13:36
<joules>
its not
13:36
never has been.
13:36
<alkisg>
How do you know?
13:36
Because it's a solved bug in launchpad...
13:36
<joules>
because its a huge fucking bug thats been around for years.
13:36
<alkisg>
OK, ignore me then
13:37
<joules>
none of them are in plugdev.
13:37
<alkisg>
Yup, plugdev doesn't matter
13:37
<joules>
infact none of them are in any groups of importance.
13:37
<alkisg>
It's a primary groups issue, not a plugdev groups issue
13:37
<joules>
whats the point of that group then.
13:37
<alkisg>
Groups don't play any role in mounting devices via udev
13:38
Well, if you care to troubleshoot the problem, we can do so; if you already know it's an unresolved bug, then there's no point in talking about it here...
13:39
<ogra_>
the plugdev group is for bacwards compatibility
13:39
<alkisg>
What I do know is that the problem you mention appeared in older versions when all users were in the same primary group
13:39
<ogra_>
it hasnt been used in years
13:39
consolekit/policykit and udev-acl rule whats mounted and who has access
13:39
<alkisg>
That's why it's suggested that each user is in its own primary group, e.g. user:user
13:42
<ogra_>
right, that is mandatory anyway
13:42
(and a default sertting in ubuntu and debian... if you work around the defaults its up to you to handle the breakage)
13:42
<joules>
its not about the users its about the default policy to grant all mountable priviledges.
13:43
which is stupid.
13:43
<alkisg>
joules: are we still talking about ltsp?
13:43
<joules>
no
13:43
<alkisg>
So, are you talking about the policykit policy to allow "active session" users to mount removable devices?
13:44
<joules>
The server.
13:44
devices plugged into the server.
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13:44
<alkisg>
What about devices plugged into non-server local linux installations?
13:44
<joules>
wtf?
13:45
<alkisg>
The f is that I don't understand your issue
13:45
Are you talking only about servers?
13:45
<joules>
you are fucking retarded.
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13:45
<alkisg>
...
13:45
<ogra_>
heh
13:45
<alkisg>
There's a reason he hasn't solved the bug "for years"... :)
13:46
<muppis>
Angermanagement..
13:46
<ogra_>
:)
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14:07
<lifeboy>
I missed all the action while I was looking away for a brief moment! :o maybe kilowatts would be better nickname for that hotheat!
14:09
alkisg: in there anything I can do about the "key updated in ssh_known_keys" message when freshly booted clients log in? Or must I just live with it?
14:10
s/in there anything/is there anything/
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14:29
<alkisg>
lifeboy: there's something wrong with your keys handling, but I don't have time to help in troubleshooting your mixed-versions setup...
14:29
If you want to completely disable host checking, put this in lts.conf: LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o CheckHostIP=no -o LogLevel=silent"
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15:15
<BBrain>
alkisg, thanks for your help, all is working fine
15:15
epoptes too
15:15* BBrain happy \o/
15:15
<alkisg>
Cool
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16:50
<lykwydchykyn>
Is there a document that describes the debian-specific options for ltsp-build-client?
16:51
<ogra_>
the manpage in your debian install indeed
16:51
<lykwydchykyn>
The manpage doesn't describe them
16:52
<ogra_>
then try ltsp-build-client --help and --extra-help
16:52
the latter should be pretty verbose
16:52
<lykwydchykyn>
Yes, I know about --extra-help; I'm looking for more detailed information on those "extra-help" options.
16:53
Something like a manpage that describes those options in more detail.
16:53
<ogra_>
well, there is always the source
16:53
<lykwydchykyn>
You can just say "they aren't documented", if that's actually the case ;)
16:54
<ogra_>
well, they are, just not at the detail level you want :)
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16:54
<lykwydchykyn>
fair enough
16:54
<ogra_>
i bet nobody would complain if someone made them more detailed ;)
16:55
<lykwydchykyn>
I'm sure nobody would
16:56
So anyway, does anyone know which option allows me to set which sections of the repositories to include? (contrib, non-free, etc)
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17:04
<ogra_>
if it didnt change in the years that i havent touched ltsp it is --components
17:04
(inherited from debootstrap)
17:05
<lykwydchykyn>
Thanks; I thought it might be that, I was just running a test build to see if that theory panned out.
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18:54
<lykwydchykyn>
Has anyone a thought on the pros and cons of using nfs vs. nbd for ltsp?
18:59
<alkisg>
With nfs you don't need to run ltsp-update-image after each change, and you save some disk space,
18:59
while with nbd and squashfs compression you get 5 times faster disk access
18:59
...which isn't very important for true thin clients, but is important for localapps and fat clients
19:00
<lykwydchykyn>
I've got ~20 clients acting as true thin clients, nfs should scale fine to that, I assume?
19:01
I guess i had it set up that way back in the 4.x days, so surely it must.
19:06
<alkisg>
For example, if you boot all your clients at once, they'll boot in e.g. 80 seconds, while with NBD they'd boot in 50 seconds. If you're OK with that, then stick to NFS...
19:06
On the other hand, if you only rarely update your image, there's no point in wasting those few extra seconds...
19:07
Some schools here only run ltsp-update-image once a year... so saving even 10 seconds for each client boot, makes it worthwhile to switch to NBD
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19:15
<lykwydchykyn>
That makes sense
19:15
Thanks alkisg
19:16
I'm basically evaluating a switch to Debian from Ubuntu, and I noticed Debian used NFS by default.
19:17
I've had issues with nbd-server crashing on Ubuntu, so maybe NFS is a more stable option.
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19:24
<alkisg>
Linux in general has bugs all over its packages... you need to have the patience to work around them until your installations are stable :)
19:24
E.g. nbd server was ok in ubuntu 10.04, it's segfaulting now in 12.04 (some times),
19:24
while nfs had problems with atheros cards (losing packets, clients hanging), and nbd didn't...
19:25
...and needed some custom mount options (window size etc) specifically for them
19:26
There's no magic distro that will take care of everything for you; just evaluate the default packages and its policies, e.g. new vs stable packages bias, upstream vs locally modified etc etc
19:26
<lykwydchykyn>
Believe me alkisg, I know; I've been at this Linux thing for 10 years now, and fighting bugs on this particular LTSP system for the last 3.
19:26
I set it up back around 2006 on Dapper Drake using LTSP 4.1, it was rock solid.
19:26
<alkisg>
From 500+ schools here we had good feedback; in general they have much less problems with linux now vs with windows previously
19:27
<lykwydchykyn>
After moving to LTSP 5 on 10.04, it's just gone downhill stability-wise.
19:27
<alkisg>
LTSP isn't the problem there :)
19:27
<lykwydchykyn>
Hence my evaluation of Debian.
19:28
<alkisg>
If the problem is in xorg, no distro will help you
19:28
Older releases could help; different distros, not so much (in that case)
19:28
If the problem is in the kernel, you just need a newer/older kernel that will be more stable in that hardware
19:28
Again, distro doesn't matter there
19:29
<lykwydchykyn>
I would think that too, but already I'm seeing things work in Debian that were broken in Ubuntu. Like WOL.
19:29
My biggest problem right now are X11 segfaults, though.
19:29
<alkisg>
Sometimes even a minor kernel difference makes something work
19:30
E.g. we had reports from many clients that USB mice stopped working after the Ubuntu 3.2.0-38 kernel. So -38 worked, and 39, 40, 41 etc do not
19:30
...and that's a minor update in an lts release... go figure
19:31
Which graphics card? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA, locally on the client
19:32
<lykwydchykyn>
The crash has happened on numerous client devices -- nvidia, ati, intel. It seems hardware-agnostic
19:32
<alkisg>
It doesn't sound like a xorg segfault then
19:32
<lykwydchykyn>
I think we chatted about it in the past
19:32
It logs a segfault in Xorg.log
19:34
My most recent attempt to elicit support from ubuntuforums is here, if you're interested: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147693
19:36
<alkisg>
lykwydchykyn: was that on client shutdown?
19:38
That log mentions power down events, it doesn't sound like it matches the "segfault on entering text in an html input field" issue
19:38
When you get a xorg segfault, and xorg restarts in the ltsp client, you can see the segfault in /var/log/Xorg.7.log.old file, with the .old extension there
19:39
<lykwydchykyn>
Shouldn't be; it was the middle of the day, on a public kiosk with no access to any kind of power-down control (hardware or software)
19:39
That part baffled me too
19:40
Xorg isn't restarting for some reason either; if I manually do "restart ltsp-client-core" it usually works again.
19:40
<alkisg>
I think you need a new, clean log
19:40
Better on an intel-based client, without nouveau etc
19:41
When the input+crash thing happens, don't restart xorg, just get the log file...
19:41
If it happens on many browsers etc, it might be window-manager related, or input-method related
19:42
(so also get syslog + dmesg)
19:42
<lykwydchykyn>
I think I put in a bug at launchpad with those three logs, but it's been a while. Hard to remember all this when you've been fighting a bug for 3 years :)
19:52
Actually now that I'm looking at it, that crash wasn't caused by the input bug.
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19:53
<lykwydchykyn>
My mistake
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