IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 October 2009   (all times are UTC)

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06:39
<honeybadger>
hey there
06:39
need some help
06:39
any body there
06:43
<alkisg_work>
!ask
06:43
<ltspbot>
alkisg_work: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
06:43
<alkisg_work>
honeybadger: ^^^
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07:25
<cliebow>
sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
07:26
ogra: that fails as well
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07:29
<scottmaccal>
hey all
07:29
working on Mac boot as well
07:29
right now
07:30
doing Ubun 9.10 install on iMac G4
07:30
I also have what we call a silver bullet (silver G4 Mac tower) going as well
07:31
<ogra>
cliebow, whats the error ?
07:32
<cliebow>
failed to fetch...ill pastebot
07:32
<scottmaccal>
2 more Windows boxes gone today. Ubuntu on each. All x86 boxes in the library are now GNU/Linux
07:33
<ltsppbot>
"cliebow" pasted "I: Base system installed succe" (82 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/601
07:33
<scottmaccal>
'looking forward to LTSP to fill the void'
07:34
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, you saw the build-client command i am trying?
07:35
<scottmaccal>
sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
07:35
?
07:35
is that is?
07:35
man I have tired hand this morning
07:36
can't type
07:36
<cliebow>
i never could...
07:36
<scottmaccal>
heh
07:37
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, this icmd fails..but ogra is looking at paste and when he has time will get back'
07:37
<scottmaccal>
cool
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07:38
<scottmaccal>
I've got a table of various hardware in the office to work on
07:38
now
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07:38
<ogra_>
cliebow, hmm
07:39
grep ports /etc/apt/sources.list
07:39
(on the server)
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07:41ogra_ is now known as ogra
07:43
<ltsppbot>
"cliebow" pasted "cliebow@ubuntu:/opt/ltsp$ grep" (34 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/602
07:44
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: status
07:44
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: I am connected to freenode as ltspbot.
07:44
<cliebow>
it is ther twice..
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<cliebow>
brb
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08:34
<scottmaccal>
'err red screen'
08:34
\say 'must try again'
08:35* scottmaccal 'err. need more coffee'
08:36* scottmaccal Scott pours a cup of black gold
08:37* scottmaccal 'progress'
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08:38
<ogra>
cliebow, sorry, busy with release stuff, try adding --copy-sourceslist and --security-mirror=none to your ltsp-build-client command
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08:45
<Appiah>
sometimes when users login they get "no response from server" then a black screen and it can be black for 1min and 30secs then it goes back login screen
08:45
anyway I can make it go faster?
08:47
<alkisg>
Appiah: version?
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08:48
<scottmaccal>
clibow: I just got 9.10 installed on my iMac
08:49
<chrisinajar>
scottmaccal: are you a gnome or a kde guy?
08:50
<Appiah>
LTSP5 alkisg
08:50
9.04 jaunty
08:50
<honeybadger>
I can't login to my clients if i Change the base dir
08:51
don' know why
08:51
<alkisg>
Appiah: do you use e.g. ldap or some other ...non-standard thing?
08:51
(I mean that isn't there in the default installation)
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08:52
<scottmaccal>
chrisinajar: gnome
08:53
<Appiah>
alkisg: ldap yupp
08:53
<alkisg>
Appiah: I think I've seen a bug in launchpad about this...
08:53
<Appiah>
oh
08:53
wait
08:54
crap
08:54
<chrisinajar>
scottmaccal: ah, I haven't used vanilla ubuntu in a long time.... kubuntu 9.10 is wonderful though, running that at the office on my thin client in fact...
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08:56
<pmatulis>
are there any tricks to getting a usb scanner (local to client) to work? only printing works. running 8.04 and unit is HP Deskjet F2280
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08:57
<ogra>
wow, #ubuntu-release-party is insane ... nearly 1200 people
08:57
<pmatulis>
ogra: indeed
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08:58* sbalneav dances the happy edubuntu dance
08:58
<ogra>
i dont think we ever passed 1000 yet
09:01
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, cool..do you see excessive cpu?
09:01
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ogra: the publicity on ubuntu 9.10 is been far beyond anything ever seen in the Linux space, and is very exciting for all of us
09:01
<ogra>
yeah
09:01
<squarepeg>
yeah
09:01
<CAN-o-SPAM>
who is squarepeg?
09:02
<cliebow>
cliebow
09:02
<sbalneav>
cliebow's alter ego
09:02
<cliebow>
they wouldnt let me use poopforbrains
09:02* cliebow cliebow paraphrases
09:03
<rjune>
cliebow: or mr_poopypants
09:03
<cliebow>
LOL
09:03
ROCKIN!
09:04
<CAN-o-SPAM>
cliebow: did you guys end up going for the boat ride?
09:05
<cliebow>
no....poured rain
09:05
and cld
09:05
cold
09:05
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ohh too bad
09:05
<cliebow>
quite a few came ou to my new house..
09:05
ogra:i think you got it
09:06
<ogra>
great
09:09
<cliebow>
ROCKIN!
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09:12
<scottmaccal>
chrisinajar: I loved KDE in 1999. Was one of my favorite windows manager at the time.
09:14
<cliebow>
Balls!
09:19
<chrisinajar>
scottmaccal: 4.2 and 4.3 are both really nice, 4.0 and 4.1 were absolutely awful though...
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09:20
<coordinador>
hi
09:20
<chrisinajar>
scottmaccal: i was sort of impartial to 3.5...
09:20
scottmaccal: 4.3 at home and at the office, and i love it...
09:20
<coordinador>
i dont know why my scanner's group is lp but i cannot add any user to that group , that causes any user except root can use the scanner
09:21
(i cannot add users with graphical tool, i dont know how to do with commands)
09:23
how can I add users to lp group with graphical tool so the users can scan?
09:24
<scottmaccal>
chrisinajar: I've always own really under-powered computers pieced together from various other computer part donations. In college we affectionately called these computers droids.
09:24
chrisinajar: and it got to the point when I had a hard time running KDE.
09:25
Perhaps I would have a better experience now?
09:25* Gadi thinks scottmaccal owes Lucasfilms money
09:26
<scottmaccal>
lol
09:27
I do own a couple of computers now that I think might run Kubuntu well.
09:27
I'll have to give it a shot someday.
09:30
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, getting closer..but still a fail in fetches late in the game..
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09:32
<scottmaccal>
cliebow: hmm. I haven't tried an update on the iMac yet. I am working on install for the G4 and an Intel tower.
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09:33
<nicku>
Gadi: I fixed the ltsp-localapp problem
09:33
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, you have wireless working yet?
09:33
<scottmaccal>
I have a HP thin client on the desk that I would like to see in action as well.
09:33
cliebow: on what?
09:33
<Gadi>
nicku: do tell
09:33
<coordinador>
I am tryking to add a user to a group but the system says "the user xxx already exists"
09:34
of course the user already exists,,, how can i resolve this?
09:34
<Gadi>
coordinador: with what command?
09:34
(you can just: adduser user group)
09:34
<nicku>
the problem was that my ad usernames are only numbers and winbind does not understand those or getent does not. So I modified the ldm localapps script a little bit so it get's the users right
09:34
<coordinador>
useradd -G lp user
09:35
Gadi, ill try that command
09:35
<Gadi>
coordinador: you would need usermod
09:35
for existing users
09:35
nicku: interesting - can you pastebot a diff?
09:35
<coordinador>
Gadi, why the lp group doesnt appear in graphical tool to work with users/groups?
09:35
<Gadi>
is it something we should fix upstream?
09:36
coordinador: perhaps you need to click a checkbox to see system groups
09:36
<nicku>
Gadi: sure I can. It is not pretty but it works :)
09:36
<coordinador>
because scanner belongs to lp group but i cannot add any user to that group graphically
09:36
hummm
09:36
ill check that
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09:37
<Gadi>
ah - GUIs... usually make one feel like he stepped in something
09:37
:)
09:37
<scottmaccal>
eheh
09:37
<coordinador>
i dont like guis neither but im the only sysadmin here and other users need to configure things too :/
09:37
<rjune>
Uhm
09:37
<Gadi>
true - and people can't type
09:37
<rjune>
that doesn't sound happy.
09:37
<Gadi>
:)
09:37
<rjune>
that's the setup we have.
09:37
it's a fail.
09:38
<Gadi>
thats what makes tech guys different than normal people
09:38
<rjune>
they can type?
09:38
<Gadi>
yup
09:38
<rjune>
I thought it was they can read.
09:38
<Gadi>
must be
09:38
oh no, we cant red
09:38
*read
09:38
hehe
09:38
<rjune>
or type.
09:38
<Gadi>
indeed
09:39
<rjune>
Gadi: http://xkcd.com/627/
09:39
<Gadi>
heh - you showed be that one before
09:39
still great
09:39
<rjune>
because it's true.
09:40
<coordinador>
Gadi, i thought that the group lp didn exists since it didnt appear in graphical tool. I cant find the option to show system groups, could you please guide me?
09:40
<Gadi>
!learn troubleshooting as http://xkcd.com/627/
09:40
<ltspbot>
Gadi: The operation succeeded.
09:40
<scottmaccal>
we have that up on the wall in the office
09:40
<rjune>
LOL
09:40
I have it on my desk
09:40
<Gadi>
coordinador: the GUIs change
09:40
<rjune>
well, had
09:40
I cleared out my desk
09:40
<Gadi>
what distro/version?
09:41
<coordinador>
ubuntu 9.04
09:41
ltsp5
09:41
<adrien>
Hello everyone. Sorry I'm back with my local printer issue. I still can't figure out what's going wrong. Ogra, you seemed to say that jetpipe was not working. How can I fix that (I seemed to understand that the script is in /usr/sbin chroot and is called if the right options are put in lts.conf). Thanks a lot for your help
09:41
<Gadi>
coordinador: so when you go to Manage Groups, its not there?
09:42
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, Rockin! building a chroot image
09:42
<scottmaccal>
cliebow: cool!
09:43
you are way ahead of me.
09:43
<cliebow>
i started way ahead of you 8~)
09:43
<scottmaccal>
then again, I am a LISP nube.
09:43
<cliebow>
in a sec ill pass on the ltsp-build-client command
09:43
<scottmaccal>
awesome
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09:44
<cliebow>
actually i have to do some running around..but ill be back'
09:44
<scottmaccal>
cool. by then my installs should be done.
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09:45
<Gadi>
adrien: can you get that ltsp-localapps xterm up again?
09:45
<coordinador>
Gadi, when i press the "manage groups" button i got a window with four buttons: "add group" "properties" , "delete" and "close", besides the group list where isnt "lp" group
09:46
(oh and "help" button)
09:46
<adrien>
Gadi : yes
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09:46
<Gadi>
coordinador: are there other system groups?
09:46
or only user groups?
09:46
adrien: great! in the xterm, run: jetpipe /dev/usblp0 9100
09:46
report errors
09:47
<coordinador>
there are "libuuid", "syslog", "crontab", "lpadmin", etc... besides "root", "users"
09:47
isnt "lp" group
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09:47
<Gadi>
perhaps "lp" is not a proper group at all
09:48
where do you see an lp group?
09:48
<cliebow>
sc
09:48
<coordinador>
what does it mean since when i plug scanner to the usb port it appear as it belongs to lp group?
09:48
<Gadi>
when you do: ls -l /dev/.....
09:48
<coordinador>
crw-rw-r-- 1 root lp 189, 2 2009-10-29 11:40 003
09:49
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --copy-sourcelist --security-mirror=none
09:49
<Gadi>
getent group lp
09:49jammcq has joined #ltsp
09:50
<jammcq>
good morning and happy Ubuntu release day to everyone !!!
09:50
<Gadi>
coordinador: actually, that's weird
09:50
I have an lp group, yet I dont see it in the GUI either
09:50
<rjune>
!j
09:50
<ltspbot>
rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:51
<Gadi>
jammcq: I cant believe you're already drinking
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09:52
<Appiah>
!seen alksig
09:52
<ltspbot>
Appiah: I have not seen alksig.
09:52
<Appiah>
!seen alkisg
09:52
<ltspbot>
Appiah: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 58 minutes and 57 seconds ago: <alkisg> Appiah: I think I've seen a bug in launchpad about this...
09:52
<coordinador>
maybe he is just arriving to home
09:52
<Appiah>
crap
09:54
ohwell
09:54
I have a strange problem , when someone plugs in a USB , it pops up on everyones desktop. How can I prevent this?
09:54
usb stick
09:54
<scottmaccal>
wow. interesting.
09:55
<Gadi>
Appiah: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LocaldevCommonGroupWorkaround
09:55
<_UsUrPeR_>
Appiah, different user groups
09:55
<Appiah>
ah
09:56
<Gadi>
!learn LocaldevCommonGroupWorkaround as https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LocaldevCommonGroupWorkaround
09:56
<ltspbot>
Gadi: The operation succeeded.
09:56
<Gadi>
seems we get that a lot
09:56
now, we have more pressure to fix the bug
09:56
:)
09:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
Gadi: that would be awesome
09:56
<CAN-o-SPAM>
It's probably the most popular bug to date
09:56
<Appiah>
:D
09:57
<Gadi>
and its a one-line fix - if anyone were willing to test
09:57
:)
09:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
Gadi: another interesting one: localapps accessing USB devices
09:57
I.E. openoffice opening a paper on a USB Flash drive
09:57
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Gadi: we'll test the stink out of it
09:57
<Gadi>
cool.
09:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
CAN-o-SPAM: werd -_-
09:57
<Gadi>
its a one-liner into lbmount.c
09:58
<Brian_H>
I'm about to implement a new ltsp install so I'll test it if you throw me the patch :)
09:58* Gadi will find some time to get you guys something
09:58
<coordinador>
i few days ago i had the same problem, i dont know if somebody remeber it, i think is not a bug, is only a problem in configuration
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10:00
<adrien>
Gadi, did you get my last lines? I think I've been deconnected.
10:01
<Gadi>
adrien: did you do this:
10:01
(10:44:59 AM) Gadi: adrien: great! in the xterm, run: jetpipe /dev/usblp0 9100
10:02
<adrien>
yes, and it says the command cannot be found
10:02alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:02
<adrien>
then I ran ./jetpipe /dev/usblp0 9100 from the /usr/sbin directory, it says "File "./jetpipe", line 41, in <module> import serial ImportError: No module named serial". Can it be that I'm missing a module?
10:02
<Gadi>
ah, thats right
10:02
you're not root
10:03
ah!
10:03
yup
10:03
you must be on that version where they forgot to put the dependency
10:03
adrien: on the server, do this:
10:03
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
10:04
apt-get install python-serial
10:04
exit
10:04
sudo ltsp-update-image
10:04
(and then, reboot the terminal
10:04
brb
10:05
<adrien>
ok I'll try this. thank you so much for your help
10:11
Gadi, it works!!! Such a relief, thank you. So is there any other dependencies I could be missing?
10:15
<squarepeg>
scottmaccal, completed successfully..next step is to fight the netboot sequence...
10:16
<coordinador>
i have a problem, i need lucida sans fonts in openoffice but doesnt appear, i check in /usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi and the lucida fonts are there
10:16
<Gadi>
adrien: I dont think so - that was a packaging issue at one point
10:16
that was resolved a while ago
10:16
you just got bitten by it
10:17
:)
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10:22
<sbalneav>
coordinador: Not sure of which version of Linux you're using, but fontconfig may be overriding your Lucida font for something else...
10:24
coordinador: /etc/fonts/*
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10:26
<lejo>
sbalneav: thx for your fuse howto!
10:27adrien has joined #ltsp
10:28
<alkisg>
coordinador: you may also try to put them in ~/.fonts and run fc-cache
10:30
<cyberorg>
Appiah, we there is a patch to lbmount that prevents usb stick from showing up on all user's desktop
10:31
<scottmaccal>
squarepeg: cool.
10:32lucascoala has joined #ltsp
10:33
<sbalneav>
I would like to point out, for the record, that the "mounts showing up on everyone's desktop" isn't a bug with ltspfs.
10:33
<ogra>
its a bug with your user setup :)
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10:34
<kdegel>
anyone try LTSP with Ubuntu 9.10 yet?
10:34
<ogra>
apparently
10:34* ogra just answered a bug for it a second ago :)
10:35
<ogra>
might even have been yours :)
10:35
<kdegel>
holy crap it is!
10:35
<cyberorg>
sbalneav, suse uses common group for all users, without patch to lbmount it showed up on all users desktop
10:35
<ogra>
cyberorg, right, as i said, bug in usermanagement
10:35
<cyberorg>
ogra, its a feature :)
10:36* ogra finds it funny how distros sell dropping of security by design a "feature" :)
10:36
<Gadi>
cyberorg: did you submit the patch?
10:37
<kdegel>
ok, I need to do it again so I know to reply the correct information
10:37
<cyberorg>
Gadi, someone had submitted on the bug tracker where lbmount bug was reported, warren did some work on it
10:37
<kdegel>
unless you want the whole thing
10:38
<cyberorg>
ogra, umask is there for a reason
10:38
<ogra>
for a reason my mother wouldnt understand though :)
10:38
kdegel, whole thing would be fine as attachment
10:39
kdegel, you got ubuntu-desktop installed on your server i hope
10:39
<kdegel>
ogra: yes
10:39
on ubuntu-desktop
10:39
<ogra>
(since you said you installed from a server cd)
10:39
<kdegel>
right now, I installed it from the alt cd
10:40
<ogra>
and used the defaults apart from selecting ltsp in the F4 menu ?
10:40
<kdegel>
yes
10:40
<ogra>
good
10:40
<Gadi>
cyberorg: link?
10:41
<ogra>
any proprietary HW involved ? i.e. nividia card in the server and you use the closed driver or some such ?
10:41johnny has quit IRC
10:42
<sbalneav>
The patch, which we'll implement, basically works around the fact that all users are in the same group.
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10:42
<kdegel>
ogra: replied with .xsession-errors
10:42
<ogra>
cool
10:43* ogra looks
10:43
<sbalneav>
But in doing so, it's going to kind of break the default perms that things should get.
10:43
<kdegel>
thanks
10:43
<Gadi>
cyberorg: is this it? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18494027/ltspfs-0.5.0_mediamount-owned-by-user.patch
10:43
<sbalneav>
Hopefully distros don't spank us for that.
10:43
<ogra>
kdegel, ugh ... attachment would have been better :)
10:43
<kdegel>
sorry :(
10:44
<sbalneav>
Gadi: that one would do it.
10:44
<ogra>
kdegel, hmm, that looks pretty normal
10:44
<kdegel>
now thats from the user that is logged in on the server, not the user that I'm trying to log in on the thin client
10:45
<cyberorg>
Gadi, this is what we use http://pastebin.com/d18a16a84
10:45
i think it was from japerry
10:46
<Gadi>
and it is known to work
10:46
?
10:46
<ogra>
kdegel, meh, indeed i meant from the user for which it failed :)
10:46
<kdegel>
sorry
10:46
<cyberorg>
Gadi, works here
10:46
<sbalneav>
And in fact, that's kind of what I originally had when I wrote lbmount. :) however, I was told by... ummm, can't remember, that we shouldn't be touching something after the mount with a chown.
10:46
<Gadi>
then, we should get it upstream
10:47
<cyberorg>
warren had some issues with it
10:47
it was long time back, don't remember what exactly but he had said he would fix it in a proper way
10:47
<Gadi>
well, I guess it is a bit invasive
10:47
<cyberorg>
well creating dir 700 is more secure
10:47
<Gadi>
because if you mount the media on another machine, it retains the new ownership
10:48
<kdegel>
ogra: is a guy unable to delete a comment? I see where I can edit my initial post
10:48
<Gadi>
the perms on the mountpoint don't matter - only the perms on the media's root
10:48
<sbalneav>
Does mount --bind accept -o perms options?
10:48
<ogra>
creating a dir with 700 with a suid root program will always result in it being only accessible by root
10:48
sbalneav, some i think
10:49
kdegel, nope, you cant edit it
10:49
<cyberorg>
japerry, can comment what exactly he did when he wakes up :)
10:49
<sbalneav>
that's probably how it should be handled,
10:49
gimme a few, workping.
10:49
<ogra>
kdegel, just post the proper log (as attachment this time :) )
10:53
<kdegel>
ogra: I threw both into pastbin, should be there now
10:53
<cyberorg>
Gadi, here it is: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526320#c24
10:53
<scottmaccal>
squarepeg: how are you making out?
10:54
<ogra>
kdegel, try logging in with store1 directly on the server, go to System-Settings-Appearance and make sure to uncheck the desktop effects explicitly there, then log out and try again with that user from a thin client
10:56
cyberorg, thats a different issue
10:56
<cyberorg>
ogra, the patch i pasted was from there
10:57
<kdegel>
ok, I'm going to take down my sandwich real quick first
10:57
<ogra>
its totally unrelated to the ltsp ownership stuff (as warren mentioned in the bug)
10:57
<cyberorg>
it solved stick showing up on everyone's desktop :)
10:57
<ogra>
the gvfs patch ?
10:57
<cyberorg>
no lbmount patch ^^
10:58
<ogra>
right
10:58
<cyberorg>
http://pastebin.com/d18a16a84
10:58
<ogra>
the bug is unrelated
10:58
its about gvfs' way of scanning devices
10:58
<cyberorg>
i got that about gvfs, but we still need lbmount patch to prevent sticks showing up everywhere as group is common
10:59
<ogra>
right, Gadi showed a particular sane patch above
10:59Selveste1 has joined #ltsp
11:00
<cyberorg>
let the sanity prevail :)
11:01
<sbalneav>
It's not sane. According to pitti, it violates policy.
11:01
I looked up my old conversations with him on it.
11:01
<ogra>
well, saner than the one on the gvfs bug
11:01
<sbalneav>
sure.
11:01
<ogra>
but yes, i agree it should happen in the bind mount call (if at all)
11:01
<sbalneav>
what would be ideal is if we could pass options to bind.
11:02
I'm still looking on that... hold on
11:02
<ogra>
i dont know if --bind can handle changing the ownership of the target mountpoint though
11:02
<sbalneav>
neither do I.
11:03
that's why I'm looking :)
11:03
<ogra>
:)
11:04* ogra goes afk for a bit
11:04
<sbalneav>
Note that the filesystem mount options will remain the same as those on the original mount point, and cannot be changed by passing the -o option along with --bind/--rbind.
11:05
so, we need to make the original ltspfs mount happen mode 700 and user owned.
11:06
I'll have to dig into the fuse docs.
11:06* sbalneav trundles off to look.
11:07Selveste1____ has quit IRC
11:09
<kdegel>
ogra: logged in as store1 on the server, verified that Visual Effects were turned off ("none" checked) logged off, turned the thin client on, tried to log in as store1 and the same thing happen
11:09
also I didn't log into anyone on the server
11:10
<sbalneav>
hmmm, looking like we may be able to patch it in ltspfsmounter script.
11:10
checking.
11:13Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
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11:18CAN-o-SPAM is now known as Q_Basic
11:33Q_Basic is now known as CAN-o-SPAM
11:36CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
11:37CAN-o-SPAM has joined #Ltsp
11:38dro has joined #ltsp
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11:49
<sbalneav>
Nope, chown'ing in ltspfsmounter doesn't help, it's something that will need to be patchd in the ltspfs binary itself.
11:49
It's prbably an option for fuse I need to do.
11:49
<Appiah>
cyberorg: thanks but its the same as the wiki workaround right?
11:51
<sbalneav>
The wiki workaround involves setting up a setuid perl on your system
11:52
with *all* the security implications that implies.
11:53
<Appiah>
and the patch just fixes the desktop
11:53
?
11:54
<sbalneav>
The patch fixes lbmount
11:54
<Appiah>
k
11:55
<sbalneav>
but it's been rejected before upstream, since you're NOT supposed to diddle about with the perms of a mounted filesystem after it's been mounted.
11:55
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
11:56
ltspfs picks up the perms of THE MOUNTED FILESYSTEM ON THE REMOTE END>
11:56
So, all we (should theoretically) need to do is modify the udev mounter scripts on the workstation to chown the dirs in /var/run as chmod 0700
11:57
and that will come across the pipe.
11:57
<Kicer86>
which option in lts.conf is responsible for choosing window manager?
11:57
<sbalneav>
!docs
11:57
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:58
<squarepeg>
scottmaccal, the image created successfully.did you get the command i used?
11:58
<sbalneav>
LDM_SESSION, i beleive
11:58
either that or LDM_XSESSION, I can't remember which :)
11:59
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --copy-sourcelist --security-mirror=none
11:59
<sbalneav>
OK, I've got some systems cutover work to do over lunch.
11:59
I'll have a look at the perms thing after.
11:59
<Kicer86>
hmmm
11:59
i'll check
12:02
<scottmaccal>
cliebow: k, I will do that on the iMac now
12:02garymc has joined #ltsp
12:02
<Kicer86>
sbalneav: LDM_SESSION ;) thx
12:03intelliant has quit IRC
12:05
<dro>
anybody used the final release of 9.10 yet?
12:07
<Brian_H>
I'm about to :)
12:07
I'm using it on my desktop right now and will be for an ltsp project I"m starting to day
12:08
<Ahmuck>
Brian_H: hi
12:08
<Brian_H>
hello
12:08
<Ahmuck>
Your using Ubuntu 9.10 for ltsp today ?
12:08davidj has joined #ltsp
12:08
<Brian_H>
I will be yes
12:08
<Ahmuck>
Done your research?
12:08nubae has quit IRC
12:09
<Brian_H>
copying some data then will be doing it
12:09* scottmaccal Smiles. There's something about seeing GNU/Linux on a PPC Mac.
12:09
<Ahmuck>
for home use, or school use?
12:09Selveste1 has quit IRC
12:09
<Brian_H>
business actually, we don't need really powerful machines for what we do
12:10
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, i need to post you my sources.list if it gives you grief
12:14
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Brian_H what kind of biz?
12:14
<Brian_H>
www.drbd.org ;)
12:14
linux ha
12:15
<CAN-o-SPAM>
oh ya ... theres no way you know anything about servers / thin clients ... you might want easyLTSP ;)
12:15
<Brian_H>
have a link lol ?
12:16
<scottmaccal>
cliebow: I did just a fresh install on this iMac without the LTSP option. What are the packages I need to install?
12:16coordinador has quit IRC
12:16
<CAN-o-SPAM>
heh
12:16
<squarepeg>
scottmaccal, sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
12:17
<scottmaccal>
ahh, that is what I thought but I wanted to be sure.
12:17
<squarepeg>
i am pasting my sources.list just in case
12:17
<scottmaccal>
k
12:19
<ltsppbot>
"cliebow" pasted "# # deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 9.10 _Ka" (55 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/603
12:19
<squarepeg>
prob ok just with default
12:21
<ltsppbot>
"scottmaccal" pasted "apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone error" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/604
12:22
<scottmaccal>
squarepeg: I just pasted an error I got after running the following command: sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
12:22
normal?
12:23
<cliebow>
prob your eth0 is getting a address from dhcp rather than being hardcoded to 192.168.0.1
12:23
so quite normal
12:23
<scottmaccal>
OK. I thought it might be DHCP related.
12:24
cool. I will proceed.
12:24
<cliebow>
yeah dhcp wont start if its interface has some other address..
12:24
you'll need to run sudo ltsp-build---> after you get server-standalone
12:26
<ltsppbot>
"scottmaccal" pasted "sudo ltsp-build-client error" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/605
12:28
<Ahmuck>
CAN-o-SPAM: how does easy-ltsp compare to what some of the ubuntu group is working on?
12:28nubae has joined #ltsp
12:29
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Ahmuck: it's OpenSuSE's ... and it's very similar but has some differences. They had a big push to add a GUI management piece. Getting into more details really opens up a CAN-o-WORMS ...
12:29
<Ahmuck>
a GUI would be nice
12:35
<cliebow>
scottmaccal, ohh..
12:37
sourceslist..a typo
12:44
<Gadi>
can someone test if: LOCALDEV_MOUNT_OPTIONS = "gid=0"
12:44
in lts.conf fixes the CommonGroup problem?
12:46coordinador has joined #ltsp
12:46
<coordinador>
damn i have a problem here
12:47
i cannot login
12:47
it says "not response from server, restarting"
12:47
<alkisg>
coordinador: ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
12:47
<coordinador>
i did ltsp-update-sshkeys and then ltsp-update-image , finally reboot client but nothing happen
12:47
<alkisg>
Is that Karmic?
12:47
<coordinador>
no, its 9.04
12:48vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:48
<alkisg>
Try to switch to local terminal (alt+ctrl+f1...) and test with `ssh put_a_username_here@server`
12:49
<Gadi>
now, that would be a cool system username
12:49
<coordinador>
ok
12:50* Gadi searches for a few honest ldap/ad common user LTSP users....
12:50
<coordinador>
"permission denied, please try again"
12:50
<alkisg>
coordinador: for logging in? or for ssh?
12:50
<coordinador>
it happened after add the users to lp group, so they can scan
12:51
alkisg, for ssh
12:51
<alkisg>
coordinador: well if ssh doesn't work, ldm won't work too
12:51
<coordinador>
Gadi, maybe it happen because lp group doesnt appear?
12:51
<alkisg>
Can you ssh from a different machine?
12:51
<coordinador>
ill check
12:51
<Gadi>
coordinador: you idn't make those users *only* be in lp, did you?
12:52
<coordinador>
Gadi, i only did adduser user lp
12:52
alkisg, i cannot loggin from any client
12:52
<Gadi>
coordinador: sudo su <username>
12:53
and do id
12:53
(or, simply: sudo id <username>
12:53
<coordinador>
it appeared a lot of groups that user belong to
12:53
<Gadi>
oh, good
12:53
check /var/log/auth.log
12:53* alkisg , after weeks of searching, has found out that greek schools don't need LDAP after all :P :D
12:53
<Gadi>
maybe it will tell you why your users are denied
12:54
<coordinador>
oh god is the longest log ever
12:54
<Gadi>
coordinador: so, use tail
12:54
<coordinador>
still is 'catting' the file xd, ill cancel it
12:55
<Ahmuck>
why don't greek schools need LDAP ?
12:57
<coordinador>
ok i already did tail /var/log/auth.log
12:57
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: it turns out that we prefer different accounts in each pc, one for each class. E.g. 12 accounts in 12 PCs with name =classA etc
12:57
...and I'll just make some programs to manage those.
12:57
<rjune>
Ahmuck: I give up, why don't greek schools need LDAP?
12:58
<coordinador>
this is the result http://pastebin.com/d57962574
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13:05
<mr-dedup>
how is the LTSP holding up? how will we use this going forward with VDI type technologies pushing in
13:05
?
13:06
<dro>
mr-dedup: isn't VDI vmware specific?
13:06
<coordinador>
i have two users than cannot login
13:06
getting "not response from server, restarting"
13:06
everyone else login perfectly
13:06
<alkisg>
coordinador: and can they login with plain ssh?
13:07
<dro>
mr-dedup: nope i'm wrong, it's non vmware specific
13:07
<coordinador>
alkisg, the users with the problem cannot do it, i get "permission denied, please try again"
13:08
<alkisg>
coordinador: ok, so don't focus the problem on ldm...
13:08
coordinador: in the log you pasted, it said that the password was wrong
13:08
<mr-dedup>
dro: yeah VDI is a desktop delivery method - I love the LTSP and followed off and on for years, I am just curious what will ahppen to it now
13:09
<dro>
mr-dedup: I think that a lot of ppl that will use the VDI technology will be vmware users, and think that it will continue working the same as before
13:09
<mr-dedup>
I was further curious if the server could itself now be run in and as part of a VDI infrastructure
13:10
<alkisg>
mr-dedup: is VDI a specific product? any links?
13:10fridayblue has joined #ltsp
13:10
<dro>
mr-dedup: if I happen to see you in here again, I'll let you know, I am trying to schedule with our dell biz rep for a VDI demontration and Q&A
13:11
alkisg: http://www.msterminalservices.org/articles/Virtual-Desktop-Infrastructure-Overview.html
13:12
<coordinador>
alkisg, just in case i reassigned a password to the user, now what do i have to do? update-sshkeys and update-image?
13:12
<dro>
the VDI technology still PXE boots
13:12
<mr-dedup>
cool
13:12
thanks
13:12
<alkisg>
coordinador: nothing, you don't even have to reboot the client. Just go ahead and test.
13:12
<coordinador>
ok ill try
13:13
<alkisg>
dro: so is there anything new in there? or they just gathered all the already used technologies under a new name?
13:13
<dro>
alkisg: I am not 100% sure, but it seems like vmware is just trying to sell more stuff lol
13:13
<alkisg>
Ah :)
13:13
<dro>
supposedly these thin clients boot differently lol
13:13
<Ahmuck>
alkisg: MS Remote Desktop, etc.
13:13
<coordinador>
oh god the user logged in successfully via ssh, but why.. this user never changes its password maybe a malicious user with privileges..
13:14
<dro>
oh, just saw that VDI is additonal software on top of the pxe
13:14
lol
13:14
in other words, it's their crap version of LTSP
13:14
<Ahmuck>
i recall when we did Remote Desktop, it did work well when it worked, but often it would "drop" connections. that was in 2006. we were however doing it over a wireless link
13:15
<coordinador>
thank you very much alkisg and Gadi , now i will check via ldm but i think every will work perfectly
13:15
<Ahmuck>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_virtualization
13:15
iirc, one of the real issues was roaming profiles
13:16
<alkisg>
What is the meaning of roaming profiles when you logon remotely?
13:17Lns has joined #ltsp
13:18* alkisg has also yet to understand what Web 2.0 is about... but I do know that the true revolution will start with Web 3.11 :P
13:18
<coordinador>
perfect, the users login perfectly
13:18
:)
13:18
<johnny>
sounds like marketing nonsense ot me
13:18
mr-dedup, you shoudl make sure you don't fall for marketing hype..
13:19
<Ahmuck>
i'm hoping 9.10 will fix many of the issues of 9.04.
13:19
<johnny>
which issues are those? related to ltsp/
13:20
?
13:20
that / was meant to be a ?
13:20
<Ahmuck>
alkisg: three satalite offices, remote login and roaming profiles allowed one to open a desktop window and then the server would "load" the roaming profile based on login
13:20
<johnny>
if so.. you can always use the ppa..
13:20
<Ahmuck>
problem it took forever to load
13:20
<johnny>
sure.. but where do the apps run?
13:20
<Ahmuck>
johnny: sound issues, firefox, etc.
13:20
johnny: on the server
13:20
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: if you logon remotely, then the profile is loaded *on* the server - why does it need roaming?
13:21
Roaming is when files are transfered
13:21
<Ahmuck>
alkisg: yes
13:21
<alkisg>
If you transfer the screen, you don't need to transfer files
13:22
<Ahmuck>
ever work with MSRD ?
13:22
<alkisg>
What is msrd?
13:22
<Ahmuck>
MS Remote Deskto
13:22
<alkisg>
Sure
13:22
<johnny>
remote deskto pstuff is loaded on the server too
13:22
no roaming profiles there either
13:22
<alkisg>
It doesn't do roaming
13:23
<johnny>
it's only when you have things that are local that roaming happens
13:23
<alkisg>
With roaming, if you have 100 Gb on the server, they'll need to be downloaded to the client for the session to start
13:23
rdp doesn't do that.
13:25
<Lns>
IMHO... roaming profiles = a horribly written band-aid that tries to make user accounts portable while at the same time ensuring Microsoft gets their licensing for as many devices as possible
13:25
<alkisg>
Lns, roaming profiles is a good thing when your local network is unreliable... I wish we had that for linux
13:26
<Lns>
alkisg: if your local network is unreliable roaming profiles are crap anyway
13:26
<alkisg>
hmm... :-/
13:26
<Lns>
try logging off and waiting 2 minutes for it to happen, and then getting an error that says "your roaming profile could not be updated - changes are lost...sucka!"
13:26
<johnny>
roaming profiles are easy to hack up if you wanted em..
13:26
<Lns>
it's just a bad implementation of user account rsync
13:26
<johnny>
just rsync
13:26
lol
13:26
lol
13:27
<Lns>
hehe
13:27
<johnny>
Lns, and i are on the same page
13:27
<Lns>
for once! =p
13:27
<johnny>
plus rsync works over ssh
13:27
<alkisg>
They have lots of problems, sure. But nfs is way worse for unreliable networks; you're just stuck without clients, ruining the lesson...
13:27
<johnny>
so it works EVERYWHERE
13:27
<alkisg>
johnny: sure, if only that was automated, we'd have roaming profiles in linux
13:27
<johnny>
it's easy to automate
13:27nubae has joined #ltsp
13:28
<coordinador>
i have a problem, why sometimes when like 20 users are using the browser, firefox works very slow and it says "is not responding"?
13:28
<alkisg>
johnny: ...and what if the network breaks? what if two way syncronization is needed?
13:28
<Lns>
alkisg: also, ever have to clean up the user profiles on a PC, in which a user has about 10 of them, each taking up multiple GB?
13:28
<johnny>
alkisg, rsync works 2 way
13:28
also unison exists
13:28
even with diffs
13:28
alkisg, with rdiff-backup and unison.. you get 2 way sync.. and abiltiy to save file differences
13:28
<mr-dedup>
so with all the talk of VDI / LTSP
13:29
<Lns>
coordinador: that is kinda typical..are you using ff on the server? are they doing flash/etc stuff? what server hardware?
13:29
<alkisg>
I really don't think that a hand-crafted rsync automation would be better than the windows roaming profiles
13:29
It would have *at least* the same problems
13:29
<johnny>
mr-dedup, vdi sounds like marketing hype..
13:29
<mr-dedup>
LTSP is closer to MS terminal server in a sense that its a shared environment correct?
13:29
<johnny>
alkisg, except reocvering is more sane
13:29
<Lns>
mr-dedup: closer to msts than what?
13:29
<johnny>
mr-dedup, no.. tha'ts just X
13:29
ltsp is the part that gives you a local netbooted environment
13:30
<mr-dedup>
lns than VDI
13:30
<johnny>
X is just like MS terminal server :)
13:30
<Lns>
johnny: you mean msts is like X?
13:30
<alkisg>
johnny: the problem is that students wouldn't know how to sync or what to do with the differences, and the teacher couldn't resolve the differences for all the students...
13:30* Lns ponders the origins of the name "Citrix" ;)
13:30
<johnny>
alkisg, the diff part is only for backup
13:30
yo ucan ignore it
13:30
there is nothing to resolve on rsync conflict
13:30
push, pull
13:30
<coordinador>
Lns, is a xeon quad core with 8gb of ram
13:31
<Lns>
alkisg: how does roaming profiles deal with diffs then?
13:31
<mr-dedup>
so the idea behind VDI in a sort is that you create seperate spaces for every users desktop
13:31
the OS could actually be a linux desktop
13:31
<alkisg>
Lns, I think they prompt the user to resolve the differences..
13:31
<Lns>
alkisg: so...what's the diff?
13:31
<mr-dedup>
in a terminal server scenario.... you get a virus on serverA then its all infected
13:32
<alkisg>
Lns, it would be a big task for a sysadmin to do such user-prompting in an easy way
13:32
<johnny>
mr-dedup, you don't get viruses on linux..
13:32
so no need
13:32
<Lns>
alkisg: it would? what about zenity?
13:32
<alkisg>
Lns, I don't think there's an easier way to do it. It's just not automated in linux...
13:32
<Lns>
johnny: not true, what if they'r eusing wine?
13:32
<johnny>
or.. if you do.. they only infect the user
13:32
<mr-dedup>
in VDI - one persons virus is contained because its a seperate virtual box
13:32
<johnny>
mr-dedup, no need for that on linux
13:32
<alkisg>
Lns, ok, could you have it ready for me by tomorrow? How much will it cost? :P :D :D
13:32
<johnny>
sorry.. that's all needed only for windows
13:32
not linux
13:32
mr-dedup, you should ignore the hype
13:32
<Lns>
alkisg: lol..you keep coming up with stuff! =p
13:32
<mr-dedup>
so there are no viruses on linux?
13:32
when did this happen?
13:32
<johnny>
mr-dedup, only via wine
13:33
and they are only local
13:33
<Lns>
i probably *could* do it in a day, actually.
13:33
<johnny>
when did it happen?
13:33
<Lns>
johnny: don't say that, it's not true...there are just very, very few linux viruses (in the 10s?)
13:33
<coordinador>
Lns, is it enough for 20 users? (is a xeon quad core with 8gb of ram)
13:33
<johnny>
mr-dedup, the problem here.. is you're trying to fit something needed for bad security in MS
13:33
<mr-dedup>
also johnny security is another
13:33
<Lns>
i'd think your main concern are hackers/script kiddies/specifically made trojans
13:33
<johnny>
into linux
13:33
bad form
13:34
Lns, that only affects the one user account
13:34
<mr-dedup>
no
13:34
<johnny>
as long as you keep your patches up todate
13:34
<mr-dedup>
im not talking about MS
13:34
<Lns>
johnny: not if its an exploit that gets root
13:34
<mr-dedup>
im just trying to understand LTSP better and how I can use it
13:34
<Lns>
but +1 johnny if you keep up to date on patches you're gonna be fine 99.9% of the time
13:34
<johnny>
mr-dedup, it's just remote access linux with a local environment that bootstraps you into it
13:34
<mr-dedup>
I am doing that by explaining the business scenarios and challenges wrapped around some MS products
13:35
I am only doing to this better understand LTSP however
13:35
<johnny>
mr-dedup, few of those probelms are serious concerns on linux
13:35
well don't
13:35
<Lns>
mr-dedup: welcome to the linux ecosystem, much different than microsoft ecosystem..and much healthier too ;)
13:35
<johnny>
mr-dedup, ltsp is just glue around tools that have existed for 10 years on linux
13:35
mr-dedup, it's a netbooted environent that only contain enough tools to to jump you into the server
13:35shawnp0wers1 has joined #ltsp
13:36
<johnny>
and some glue to allow local devices and sound to work
13:36
mr-dedup, ltsp specific code is less than 10K lines (minus comments i bet)
13:36
mr-dedup, you should read this
13:36
!docs
13:36
<ltspbot>
johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
13:36
<Lns>
mr-dedup: the main diff is: 1) you don't need a local OS on a client for LTSP (it boots from the server over the network) and 2) it's Linux, which really requires very little attention to things that affect the microsoft world such as viruses, badly written core software and licensing costs for the most part
13:37
<mr-dedup>
thanks for the docs I appreciate it...
13:37
<Lns>
coordinador: i'd think it is, i have quadcore xeons that serve 35+ accounts
13:37
<coordinador>
Lns, how firefox works? how fast is your network?
13:37
<Lns>
coordinador: but firefox is always one of your biggest resource hogs
13:37
<mr-dedup>
LNS, yes I understand, thanks - but people are still running cross platform applications?
13:38
<johnny>
mr-dedup, it's better if you come into this with a cleaner mind, so you don't try to overengineer your solutions
13:38
<coordinador>
i have a 100mb switch
13:38
<Lns>
mr-dedup: sure
13:38shawnp0wers has quit IRC
13:38
<mr-dedup>
would they do this via RDP or Citrix perhaps as part of the LTSP client
13:38
<johnny>
that's possible yes
13:38
<Lns>
coordinador: you should really have at least 1GB/sec for the server
13:38
<johnny>
ltsp can boot into rdp
13:38
<mr-dedup>
ok, i think that is new feature from when I last looked
13:38
<coordinador>
my server comes with 1gb sec but my switch is 100mb
13:38
<johnny>
so you go from ltsp client -> ms term serv
13:38
mr-dedup, nope.. been around for at least 3 years
13:39
<Lns>
coordinador: then get a switch with at least one 1gb/sec port
13:39
<johnny>
instead of ltsp client -> ltsp server -> ms term serv
13:39
<Lns>
you'll be happy you did
13:39
<coordinador>
Lns, but i get "... is not responding"
13:39
<mr-dedup>
actually its been that long now that i think about it....about 6
13:39
haha
13:39
wow...time does fly
13:39
<johnny>
mr-dedup, i think it has been around longer
13:39
<Lns>
coordinador: what's your distro/version?
13:39
<coordinador>
Lns, does this is because the network slowness?
13:39
<johnny>
that's just how long i've been here
13:39
<coordinador>
ubuntu 9.04+ltsp5
13:39
<Lns>
coordinador: are you using stgraber ppa?
13:39
<johnny>
other folks would know better
13:40
<rjune>
johnny: what's been around longer?
13:40
<coordinador>
Lns, i dont know
13:40
<johnny>
rjune, when did rdesktop support enter ltsp?
13:40
<mr-dedup>
johnny what i am trying to really discuss is where is the business value to ltsp
13:40
<rjune>
realistically around 4.1, 4.2
13:40
<Gadi>
older than 4.1
13:40
<johnny>
rjune, so how many years?
13:40
<coordinador>
Lns, what is that?
13:40
<Gadi>
:)
13:40
<mr-dedup>
what are IT challenges that people discuss that this solves
13:40
<johnny>
not versions.. years :)
13:40
<rjune>
IIRC, it had been there for a while as an addon, but that's about when it was in by default
13:41
<Gadi>
figure at least 6
13:41
<rjune>
johnny: uhm, 7 or so
13:41
<johnny>
mr-dedup, centralized management, no license costs, ability to use any old computer as a client
13:41
<Lns>
Anyone have a howto for coordinador on using stgraber's ppa?
13:41
<rjune>
johnny: us old folks don't remember so well anymore, we gotta find mnemonic milestones and figure it out
13:41
<mr-dedup>
rjune actually assisted me way back when with my first deployment
13:41
<johnny>
the ppa has instructions
13:41
on its page
13:41
<rjune>
mr-dedup: quite possible, I was very active in LTSP at the time.
13:41
<coordinador>
Lns, for what is that?
13:42
<Lns>
coordinador: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
13:42
<coordinador>
ill check
13:42
<johnny>
mr-dedup, i think i just gave the most wanted features there
13:42
<rjune>
mr-dedup: it simplifies management of the OS, and to somedegree users.
13:42
<johnny>
basically everything
13:42
<mr-dedup>
johnny dont you have a feature where you can just plug a usb key in and it points to the ltsp server?
13:42
<johnny>
mr-dedup, yes
13:43
or floppy, or cd
13:43
<rjune>
By only having to manage one, or two systems, You don't have to have things like Active Directory and Zenworks to manage large networks.
13:43
<mr-dedup>
right
13:43
<johnny>
or even a hard drive..
13:43
<Lns>
or a state of the art client
13:43
<rjune>
Anything USB, I remember when that was going in.
13:43
<mr-dedup>
rjune, what about D/R
13:43
<squarepeg>
well..one hard drive helps
13:43
<johnny>
mr-dedup, anything with net booting will work..
13:43
<rjune>
they've done a ton to make that nicer.
13:43
<coordinador>
Lns, is this a hacked ltsp?
13:43
<rjune>
mr-dedup: D/R?
13:43
<johnny>
which means all laptops
13:43
<mr-dedup>
rjune: can you cluster this over a WAN or anything like that
13:43
<johnny>
wan is suckier..
13:43
<Lns>
coordinador: it's an updated ltsp :)
13:43
<rjune>
wan is much suckier.
13:43
<johnny>
you should just use nx mr-dedup and not ltsp
13:44
<mr-dedup>
or just add in rsync the home dirs to another site?
13:44
<rjune>
mr-dedup: bandwidth and latency are very important here.
13:44
<johnny>
mr-dedup, that's the part where ltsp leaves X
13:44
and you should just use X/nx/vnc
13:44
or rdp for that matter
13:44
<coordinador>
Lns, oh god, is it reliable? which benefits it has?
13:44
<rjune>
it doesn't work as well distributed, You'll move to NX
13:44* Lns remembers using X over SSH on a 56k dialup ;)
13:44* rjune cries for Lns
13:44
<Lns>
it was slooooow =p
13:44
<johnny>
mr-dedup, hopefulliy if you are logging in remotely, you will already have a client image
13:45
and won't need to pull that too
13:45
<mr-dedup>
rjune (disaster recovery / business continuity)
13:45
<johnny>
disaster recovery is easy
13:45
<rjune>
mr-dedup: same same. you have one system to backup.
13:45
<johnny>
just plug in any new pc..
13:45
and backing up is simple
13:45
rdiff-backup is great
13:45
incremental backups
13:45
<rjune>
johnny: backup-pc
13:45* Lns is about to deploy BackupPC on a WAN to backup 7 separate sites of LTSP servers
13:45
<johnny>
or rather you get both incremental backup.. and full backup in the same
13:45
<mr-dedup>
how many users with full desktops can ltsp support today?
13:45
<johnny>
Lns, does that use rsync/rdiff-backup internally?
13:45
<rjune>
yes
13:45
<mr-dedup>
2 CPU AMD opteron
13:46
50-100?
13:46
<Lns>
johnny: rsync or smb, yeah
13:46
<rjune>
mr-dedup: define full desktops.
13:46
<johnny>
mr-dedup, hmm? what's the city state in spain that has 100K ltsp installs
13:46
<rjune>
and what hardware are you using?
13:46
<johnny>
hehe
13:46
<rjune>
Multimedia is, and always will be problematic.
13:46
<sepski>
extremadura ?
13:46
<cliebow>
yeah!
13:46
<mr-dedup>
rjune - gnome with office productivity tools / suites installed
13:46
<rjune>
that's a case of bandwidth.
13:46
<johnny>
mr-dedup, really the problem for that is not ltsp at all, but firefox and flash
13:46
<rjune>
johnny: and mplayer
13:46
<johnny>
they both suck
13:47
<rjune>
don't assume a browser there.
13:47
<johnny>
most people use a browser tho..
13:47
or need one
13:47
90% at least
13:47
<rjune>
yea
13:47
<johnny>
abiword is better than openoffice on ltsp
13:47
<rjune>
X could optimize the screen updates too
13:48
mr-dedup: You'll need lots of RAM, used to be there were some basic guidelines to tell you what type of server you should have for X users
13:48
<mr-dedup>
so LTSP can run within a virtual machine as well I assume? any problems there?
13:48
<johnny>
sure.. but why
13:48
<rjune>
same as anywhere else in a VM.
13:48
<coordinador>
ok, see you, bye
13:48
<rjune>
johnny: same as for any other VM
13:48
<johnny>
for testing .. yes
13:48
it's good
13:48
<rjune>
move the VM around easily
13:48
<mr-dedup>
well there are some features that vmware/citrix are using now
13:48
<Gadi>
mr-dedup: go Yankees!
13:48
<rjune>
HA
13:48
<mr-dedup>
like vsphere
13:49
<johnny>
mr-dedup, you don't need half of them on linux in general
13:49
<rjune>
johnny: High Availablitly
13:49
<johnny>
as you don't have to worry about hal changes and registry nonsense
13:49* Gadi apologizes - but it had to be said
13:49
<mr-dedup>
so Gadi you figured out I was in NY? great job
13:49coordinador has quit IRC
13:49
<Gadi>
Im just wondering if I can see you from my Window
13:49
:)
13:49
<squarepeg>
GAdi knows ALL
13:49
<johnny>
rjune, sure.. but just saying that he doesn't have to spend as much money as he thinks he does
13:49
<Gadi>
er, lowercase window
13:49
<johnny>
or have to deal wit has much complication
13:50* Gadi crawls back into corner
13:50
<rjune>
mr-dedup: /whois mr-dedup, is not hard to figure out.
13:50* rjune kicks at Gadi, and stay there.
13:50
<mr-dedup>
well - vmware can hardly be argued as complicated...its installed and manged on a 12 servers in 30 minutes.
13:50
<rjune>
Naa, I couldn't do that.
13:50
He'll send guido over to visit me.
13:50
<mr-dedup>
but what i can see as a big benefit
13:50
<Lns>
woohoo, just got the latest version of the linux thin client video i've been making =)
13:51
<mr-dedup>
is being able to migrate LTSP on the fly from one cluster to another
13:51
<rjune>
yeah
13:51
that could be interesting.
13:51
<mr-dedup>
this could be across a WAN
13:51
very interesting
13:51
<jammcq>
mr-dedup: I have a customer with Vmware esx with 3 machines in the cluster
13:51
<johnny>
mr-dedup, i'm saying that vmware has to do alot more crap to deal wiht windows
13:51
<rjune>
Migrate the VM around on esx server
13:51
<jammcq>
it's got about 18 virtual machines, an LTSP-5 server being one of them
13:51
<mr-dedup>
jammcq
13:51
nice
13:52
thats what im talking about...finally !
13:52
<rjune>
I'm going back to my hole, gotta work on chillispot
13:52
<mr-dedup>
thanks for the info rjune
13:52
that was awesome
13:52
<jammcq>
yesterday, one of the boxes developed a memory error. we migrated all of the guests off that server onto the other 2, shutdown the server, replaced the ram, turned it back on and made it available to the cluster. all in the middle of the day, and nobody noticed
13:52
and we have about 60 thin clients on that LTSP-5 server.
13:53
I was impressed
13:53
<mr-dedup>
jammcq in that scanario what specifically are they using the LTSP server for?
13:53
<jammcq>
it's a medical clinic. they have terminals all over the building. Mostly running firefox with a web-based app.
13:53
<mr-dedup>
i was ust doing a contract at CVS pharmacy HQ
13:53
<jammcq>
it's a VERY busy clinic, with lots of stuff happening on the thin clients
13:54
<mr-dedup>
and when refreshing servers we saw an increase in server performance on top of the new hypervisor, I want to incorporate a LTSP template and test....
13:54
<jammcq>
cool
13:54
<mr-dedup>
you can depoly them quickly with all sorts of modifications
13:54shawnp0wers1 has quit IRC
13:55
<mr-dedup>
anyway, im glad to see your doing it....
13:55
<rjune>
ooh, hay
13:55
jammcq, mr-dedup: I'm working on starting a company, how did you guys go about marketing to businesses when you first got started?
13:56
<jammcq>
mine was easy. I took the 2 biggest customers from the company I used to work for.
13:56
no marketing involved
13:56
<mr-dedup>
b@#tard JAMCQ
13:56
haha
13:56
<sepski>
hehehe
13:56
<rjune>
jammcq: isn't that kind of a dick move?
13:57
<mr-dedup>
spend as little as possible rjune
13:57
<rjune>
mr-dedup: yea, looking for ideas on how to invite new business
13:57
<jammcq>
I was leaving the company no matter what. the 2 customers needed so much custom stuff, my old company couldn't possibly handle it without me. it turned out to be a friendly parting of the ways
13:57
<mr-dedup>
honestly everyday get up and use spaces that everyone is using to get something they need IE. craigslist
13:57
post resume, post skills, post weblink
13:57
<Lns>
If you guys wanna see the video I've been working on for the past few months about Linux thin clients in education, check it out: http://logicalnetworking.net/other/linux-thinclients-in-education.mov
13:58
<mr-dedup>
jamm what part of country you in?
13:58
<rjune>
Closer to me than you.
13:58
<jammcq>
detroit
13:58
<mr-dedup>
ah
13:58
<rjune>
He's my Northern Neighbor
13:59
<mr-dedup>
i love the concept of LTSP, but I would love to develop an idea to deliver it in the cloud
13:59
thats where my questions are derived from,
14:00
can it work on the new xen cloud platform...could it be instantly delivered to end users in a totally rich environment (not web)
14:00
<Lns>
mr-dedup: you need a very fast link from "the cloud" to the client for that to happen.
14:00
<rjune>
There's somebody doing something similar
14:00
what's wrong with web?
14:00
Lns: or local storage as cache
14:01
<mr-dedup>
lns - your not thinking outside the box.... not if you were accessing it with another method or protocol
14:01
<Lns>
rjune: cache of what?
14:01nubae has quit IRC
14:01
<sbalneav>
Oh, <deity>, Thinking outside the box.
14:01
<rjune>
Lns: for starters, initial boot environ.
14:01
<mr-dedup>
yes
14:01
<rjune>
sbalneav: I don't see a box, how about you?
14:01
<mr-dedup>
but like i am saying...that could happen in the data center
14:01
<Lns>
rjune: sure, but then you might as well just ditch ltsp..?
14:01
<mr-dedup>
it doesnt have to happen locally
14:02
<sbalneav>
I see lots of people thinking outside the box.
14:02
<rjune>
mr-dedup: Do not try to think outside the box, that is impossible. Instead, try to realize the truth.
14:02* Lns sees only open doors
14:02
<mr-dedup>
thanks rjune
14:02
:)
14:02
<sbalneav>
What I don't see anywhere near the same number doing is CODING OUTSIDE THE BOX.
14:02
<mr-dedup>
your wisdom has no bounds
14:02
<Lns>
sbalneav: =p
14:02
<rjune>
sbalneav: same to you bub. :-)
14:02
<sepski>
mr-dedup, clouds often charge for bandwith a a ltsp client uses some
14:03
<rjune>
an ltsp client will use a lot
14:03* sbalneav goes back to fixing the current problems in the box.
14:03
<rjune>
*sigh*.
14:03
<sbalneav>
Gadi: You there?
14:03
<Lns>
mr-dedup: NX is really a good solution to the problem you're showing.
14:03
<Gadi>
sbalneav: only for a min or two - waiting on a call
14:04
<sbalneav>
Here's where I think the core of the problem is: on the thin client.
14:04
<Gadi>
sbalneav: did you see my post about LOCALDEV_MOUNT_OPTIONS?
14:04
<Lns>
LTSP is more for local networks because it utilizes high-bandwidth LANs so centralization is higher
14:04
<mr-dedup>
what is NX?
14:04
ill look noe
14:04
now
14:04
<Gadi>
sbalneav: test ur theory with: LOCALDEV_MOUNT_OPTIONS = "gid=0"
14:04
<Appiah>
someone here running jaunty 64bit client? does not have to be LTSP , I just need to test something with flash
14:05
<Lns>
mr-dedup: http://openfacts2.berlios.de/wikien/index.php/BerliosProject:FreeNX_-_FAQ
14:05
<sbalneav>
Won't work.
14:05
because the dir still will be 750 on the thin client
14:05
it's the mode that's passed through.
14:05
<Gadi>
ah
14:06
but, still
14:06
<sbalneav>
so I think I have to patch the ltspfs_mount|umount scripts that ltspfsd uses to mount the device physically on the thin client.
14:06
<Gadi>
is the ownership passed through?
14:06
<sbalneav>
no
14:06
<Gadi>
are you sure?
14:06
<sbalneav>
ltspfs makes all ownership look like you, remember?
14:06
on the thin client, it's ALREADY mounted root:root
14:06
<Gadi>
ah, right
14:07
but, we dont want to actually change the mode of the root of the media
14:07
just the mode that appears when mounted
14:07
otherwise, we have the same issue of modd'ing the media's filesystem
14:08
<sbalneav>
Well, I think we can handle that with a -o perms= on the mount.
14:08
I'll have to test it tonight.
14:08
<Gadi>
so, can you try: LOCALEDV_MOUNT_OPTIONS = "perms=..."
14:08
<Lns>
mount -o mode=0700 ?
14:08
<sbalneav>
yeah
14:08
<Gadi>
it'll probably be filesystem-specific
14:08
<sbalneav>
ok, I'llgive that a go, uno momento
14:08
<Gadi>
but, should work on th usual characters
14:08
<sbalneav>
yeah, it'll have to be for fat filesystems.
14:09
lemme do some poking.
14:09
<Gadi>
seems fat and others have a "umask" option
14:10
while iso9660 has a "mode" option
14:10
<sbalneav>
If we can't do it that way, then all I'd have to do is patch ltspfsd to "misreport" the perms for / on the mounted filesystem in the _getattr call.
14:10
<Gadi>
gotta love consistency
14:10
<sbalneav>
in fact, that may be easier.
14:10
since it would avoid the "every filesystem has different mount options.
14:10
problem
14:10
yeah
14:11
yeeeaaaahhhh
14:11* Gadi likes the way u think
14:11
<Gadi>
go Yankees!
14:11
;)
14:11
<sbalneav>
Fake it 'till you make it.
14:11
OK
14:11
everyone can go back outside their boxes now.
14:12
I'll have something to test by tonight, hopefully
14:12
<Gadi>
u rock
14:12
now, where has stgraber been hiding?
14:12
<sbalneav>
He's a small guy
14:12
<Gadi>
so we can beat him up about poweroff?
14:12
:)
14:12
<sbalneav>
could be anywhere
14:12
<Gadi>
true dat
14:12
<sbalneav>
doesn't poweroff -fp solve it?
14:12
<Gadi>
I just hope he's hung over tomorrow
14:13
sbalneav: it does - but he was the one who took the -f part out
14:13
so, he must have had a reason
14:13
I dont want to just change it back
14:13
:)
14:13
<sbalneav>
heh
14:13
<Lns>
Gadi: sbalneav: what's the issue w/poweroff (ldm) ?
14:13
<sbalneav>
ok, we'll wait for him
14:13
it's doing a shutdown
14:14
<Gadi>
Lns: currently, we do poweroff -p
14:14
<sbalneav>
first thing that goes is the network
14:14
<Gadi>
which starts init scripts to shutdown cleanly
14:14
one of which unmounts the nbd rootfs
14:14
:)
14:14
<sbalneav>
which kind of sucks for your nbd mounted filesystem :)
14:14
<Gadi>
right
14:14
<Lns>
oooh gotcha
14:15
<Gadi>
the -fp means just go straight to halt
14:15
<sbalneav>
It's kind of like that trick with the tablecloth, only when you pull out the tablecloth, the table ITSELF disappears :)
14:15
<Gadi>
which on a normal system can cause corruption
14:15
<Lns>
i was dealing with a cornercase w/that in ldm where when you 'shut down' from the pref. menu it won't WoL
14:15
<Gadi>
I think stgraber was prolly worried about sshfs
14:15
and corrupting things
14:15
but, sshfs should be unmounted at the ldm screen
14:16
so, that cant be it
14:16
<Lns>
this is all because of upstart in 9.10?
14:16* Gadi shrugs
14:16
<Gadi>
Lns: prolly made it show up
14:16
where it didnt before
14:17
ok, now to go find out where my phone call is...
14:17
<vagrantc>
i think a better option would be to *not* have NBD unmounted.
14:17
there are hooks for that in the NBD scripts in debian
14:17nubae has joined #ltsp
14:17
<Gadi>
vagrantc: kinda hard if networking goes away
14:17
no?
14:17
<vagrantc>
Gadi: so don't take down networking either?
14:17
<Gadi>
right
14:17* Gadi hasn't looked at karmic's upstart networking handling
14:17
<Gadi>
:)
14:18
<vagrantc>
i'd much prefer figuring out the handful of places where we need to special case LTSP than just pulling the power.
14:19
<Gadi>
but, think of our unboot time speeds! ;)
14:20
<vagrantc>
heh.
14:20
<cliebow>
sbalneav:i Liked at reference to tables diappearing
14:21
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I was pretty proud of that one.
14:21
We out to start a wiki page with some of my whacky analogies. I've had a few doozies over the years :)
14:21
<cliebow>
where does upstart live?
14:22
we were sort of talking about running assp via init
14:22
or upstart as the child of init?
14:24
<sbalneav>
lol, from #sabayon:
14:24
< federico> sbalneav: you aren't stepping on anyone's toes - sabayon is right now a one-man show (you) plus me just making tarballs :)
14:24
I need my one-man-band outfit.
14:25
I'd have Christopher Walken saying "I gotta have more Kazoo"
14:25* Lns gives sbalneav a highhat on a hat
14:25
<cliebow>
heh
14:28
<rjune>
http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink/new/humor/new_cisco_logo.gif <-- not to be outdone by Juniper, Cisco announced their new logo
14:29
<Lns>
rjune: LOL
14:33
<jammcq>
sbalneav: so yer the sabayon maintainer now, eh?
14:33
or just lead developer
14:33
<Appiah>
rjune: :D
14:37
<Lns>
no better lead dev than sbalneav !
14:43vagrantc has quit IRC
14:43
<rjune>
Congrats sbalneav.
14:43
now I know where to send people with sabyon problems. :-)
14:44scottmaccal_ has joined #ltsp
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14:47
<kdegel>
ubuntu.com seems to be down?
14:49
<rjune>
are you surprised?
14:49
<kdegel>
haha no
14:50
just making sure
14:50
I just tried from my phone as well
14:50
<rjune>
I'm having issues too
14:50
<Lns>
heh, i just tried too...
14:50pmatulis has quit IRC
14:50
<Lns>
historical downtime during new release
14:50
<johnny>
sbalneav, did you try registering for an account?
14:51
a gnome devel account that is
14:51* Lns wonders why they can't get hosted somewhere uber cool
14:51jammcq has quit IRC
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14:59
<alkisg>
Lns, so what did you do about that wol problem? ran ethtool eth0 -s wol g ?
14:59
<Lns>
alkisg: yeah, has no effect on some certain clients...mainly older compaq ipaqs
15:00
<alkisg>
Uhm, and where did ldm fit into the problem?
15:00
<dro>
the install commands for ltsp all the same on 9.10?
15:00
<Lns>
alkisg: well the poweroff command is in ldm code in the preferences menu
15:01
<alkisg>
Lns, I mean, as opposed to doing what, do make wol work?
15:01
<Lns>
was thinking that it was the wrong switches/something in that that turns off the adapter
15:01
<alkisg>
*to
15:01
<Lns>
halt/poweroff is confusing to me
15:01
<alkisg>
Did you find any way to make wol work?
15:01
<Lns>
i think its just a buggy bios in the workstations though, my cron job turns the systems off at night (using /sbin/halt) so i dunno if its an issue anymore
15:02
<alkisg>
I think it may be a net module problem...
15:02
<Lns>
i was just onsite yesterday though installing the shutdown warning script i made so i'll get in contact w/the tech on site and ask her
15:02
alkisg: you mean the ethtool cmd doesn't work on those nics?
15:03
<alkisg>
Yeah, it either doesn't work at all, or it reports it does, but it doesn't. That's just a hunch, though...
15:03
<dro>
I am sooo happy about 9.10, it resolves all the internal speaker issues I was having
15:03
I had absolutely no sound modules running, and that darn thing would still play music
15:04
<Lns>
dro: heh, that's like the polar opposite of what it used to be w/linux 10 years ago...sound was hard to get working, now you can't get it NOT to work =p
15:05
<dro>
Lns: yea, I had some good laughs explaining it to my boss
15:05
I told him, the cool thing about linux is that, EVERYTHING WORKS, just might not work the exact way you expect it to lol
15:05
<Lns>
dro: how big of an ltsp network do you have that you just moved them to a new release?
15:05
hahaha
15:06
<dro>
Lns: I just did a reg install on a desktop to test first, still building the client now, but this client has about 100 thin clients
15:06
<Lns>
oh holy sh*t i just accidentally removed my index.html! baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
15:06
<dro>
lololol
15:06ltsppbot has quit IRC
15:07
<sbalneav>
johnny: No, not yet. Guess I should, eh? :)
15:07
Lns: Restore from backups, no problem.
15:07
<johnny>
sbalneav, then you can commit and branch as you please
15:08
<dro>
Lns: I would love to have it working today, but sudo ltsp-build-client is going slow....can't everyone stop downloading/updating while I build client? lol
15:08
<cliebow>
dro:shoulda done it this morning..i got my powerpc .img done
15:09
<johnny>
yeah.. damn those other people :)
15:09
/me kicsk all those people who aren't me
15:09
hehe
15:09
i'm ready to upgrade to karmic myself
15:09
so..
15:09
<dro>
cliebow: as soon as I left siteA to go to SiteB it released, and it took me 3 hours to get there
15:09
<johnny>
what's that LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS supposed to do
15:09
orwhatever it is in lts-parameters
15:09
<cliebow>
lets see..write a script that dos's all other machines
15:09
<alkisg>
johnny: restricts to certain apps
15:09
<johnny>
i tried putting firefox in there.. it didn't work
15:09
it still launched on the server
15:10
<alkisg>
johnny: you need LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
15:10
<dro>
good luck in your ventures guys, I am outta here for the day!
15:10
<johnny>
oh
15:10dro has quit IRC
15:10
<johnny>
perhaps that is m problem
15:10
alkisg, thanks..
15:10
:(
15:10
<alkisg>
You don't need LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS, that's only to *restrict* things. np..
15:10
<sbalneav>
johnny: Ok, save me some time, where do I sign up?
15:10
<johnny>
well i only want firefox to work
15:10
or rather
15:11
wait.. so if i just install firefox?
15:11
it'll work locally ?
15:11
seems not true :)
15:11
with LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True ?
15:11
<alkisg>
Yeah, just install firefox and put LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
15:11* alkisg hopes he doesn't forget anything...
15:11
<Lns>
sbalneav: actually i'm really really happy i had a copy of it going in firefox...view source...YES
15:12
hehe...my backups are kinda old (smacks himself)
15:12* sbalneav smacks ever harder
15:12
<sbalneav>
BACKUPS PEOPLE, BACKUPS BACKUPS BACKUPS!!!!
15:13
<Lns>
I've been working to get backuppc going for myself off-site....it worked but then i ran out of hard disk space, so i've been waiting to get a new drive :(
15:13fridayblue has quit IRC
15:13
<sbalneav>
This message brought to you by the angry sysadmins at the Scary Devil Monastary (alt.sysadmin.recovery)
15:14
<cliebow>
and to all a good night..
15:14
<sbalneav>
Night cliebow
15:14cliebow has quit IRC
15:14* sbalneav looks at the window
15:14
<squarepeg>
gnight sbalneav!
15:14squarepeg has quit IRC
15:14
<sbalneav>
Sun must be setting early in Bar Harbour.
15:15
<johnny>
huh neat ..
15:15
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/mango-lassi.html
15:15
<sbalneav>
Anyone here still read usenet?
15:15
Or am I the last of a dying breed.
15:15
<Lns>
sbalneav: usenet is dead, didn't you get that memo? haha
15:15
<chrisinajar>
sbalneav: you're old.
15:15
:)
15:15
<Lns>
i <3 usenet. I hate how google got rid of a lot of it from their archives
15:15
<sbalneav>
I've been on the internet since 1985
15:15
<johnny>
sbalneav, i can't find it on google
15:16
where did that damn app go
15:16
<sbalneav>
I'm not just OLD, I'm a freaking METHUSELAh
15:16
<chrisinajar>
sbalneav: i was born 3 years later :P
15:17
<sbalneav>
chrisinajar: I was reading RFC 813 before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.
15:17
<Lns>
I was playing Frogger on a C=64 in 1985
15:18
<sbalneav>
I learned mail by reading RFC821 :(
15:18
That's a bad way to learn to mail, let me tell you ;)
15:18
<Lns>
sbalneav: but i'm sure you know it much better than everyone else!
15:18
<alkisg>
Hmmm that's why html in emails isn't allowed, it's not RFC821 compliant... :P
15:19
<Lns>
html doesn't belong in e-mail.
15:19
<sbalneav>
Lns: Phhht
15:19
I've forgotten everything I knew.
15:19Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
15:19
<sbalneav>
Keep killing those braincells on Lobster night at BTS
15:20
<Lns>
lobster night?? Awwww, now I *really* wish I coulda gone!
15:20
<sbalneav>
4.5 pounders
15:21
<Lns>
dommit
15:21
<sbalneav>
And a very peaty scotch courtesy of ogra
15:21
and wine
15:21
and beer
15:21* Lns loves saving the ocean life, but also loves lobster in his tummy
15:21
<sbalneav>
and lobster
15:21
jammcq had 3!
15:21
<Lns>
LOL!
15:21
nice
15:21
i coulda brought some good sonoma county wine ..i shoulda thought to ship some to you guys
15:22
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav: i heard there was a hammer involved
15:23
<sbalneav>
Hammers, cliebow had a clamp, GodFather was stamping on claws with his shoe...
15:23
I have pics!
15:23
<CAN-o-SPAM>
hilarious
15:23
you'll have to send those over or post online
15:23
<sbalneav>
Which I forgot to post last night
15:23
<CAN-o-SPAM>
heard GodFather got demolished at the table
15:24arx has joined #ltsp
15:24
<sbalneav>
Oh, it was beyond humiliating.
15:24
<CAN-o-SPAM>
hahaha
15:24
<sbalneav>
jammcq pwned GodFather.
15:24
<CAN-o-SPAM>
oh i'm sad i missed it
15:25
<sbalneav>
Yeah, well, get your *ss out there next time no excuses :)
15:25
Lns: You too.
15:25
<CAN-o-SPAM>
yup will do
15:26
<Lns>
sbalneav: yessir
15:26
<sbalneav>
I DIDN'T SEE A SALUTE SOLDIER!!!
15:26
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: you wanna see the video i've been telling you about?
15:26* Lns salutes GodFather
15:26
<Lns>
=p
15:26weirddood55 has joined #ltsp
15:26
<sbalneav>
heh
15:26
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav is NOT the godfather, although almost as cool ;)
15:26
<arx>
What files do I need to edit to change the default IP address for the LTSP side in Ubuntu? I have changed /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, ran ltsp-update-sshkeys. Client boots and gets a login box, but when I try and login it says: no response from server, restarting...
15:26
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Lns: yeah!
15:27
<Lns>
http://logicalnetworking.net/other/linux-thinclients-in-education.mov
15:27
<sbalneav>
arx: did you do an ltsp-update-image?
15:27
you need that after the ssh-keys
15:27
<kdegel>
ogra: I must log off today and go home, you can contact me anytime though via email kennethdegel(at)gmail
15:27
thanks for your help
15:27
<arx>
I actually built the image after changing the ip address....
15:28
but before the update ssh keys part
15:28
<kdegel>
ogra: or via launchpad as well :)
15:28kdegel has quit IRC
15:28
<Lns>
sbalneav: why do you need an ltsp-update-image after ip addy change?
15:29
arx: did you restart the ssh daemon?
15:30
<sbalneav>
Lns: because the ssh-keys are tied to an ip address, which is stored in the chroot.
15:30
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Lns: final cut?
15:30
<sbalneav>
arx: update the image, that will solve it.
15:30
<arx>
Lns: I rebooted the entire server
15:30
<sbalneav>
ltsp-update-sshkeys, then ltsp-update-image.
15:30
<arx>
sbalneav: ok, I am trying that now.
15:30
got it! ;)
15:31
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: pretty much, besides changing the redhat logo to the ubuntu logo (since that's what i work with primarily)
15:31
and any suggestions by the OSS community.. =)
15:31
sbalneav: oooh yeah the ssh keys. =p
15:31
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Cool video, i feel very humbled, and it makes me want to go home and play my car
15:31
<sbalneav>
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1029091birther1.html
15:31
<CAN-o-SPAM>
car in the case = guitar
15:31
<sbalneav>
Looks like Orly got a bit of a smackdown.
15:32
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: lol, it makes you want to play guitar?
15:32
from the music you mean?
15:32
<CAN-o-SPAM>
well ... i mean if i wanted open source software or thin clients i would go to myself to get it
15:32
so after that ... yes from the music
15:33
<Lns>
haha =)
15:33
i loved the lighting in the 1220 shot =)
15:34
<sbalneav>
Oooh, asking witnesses to lie to the court. That's like, a BIG no-no if you're a lawyer.
15:34
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Lns: i know i just wished it had our logo on it!! you got them right before the new logos came out
15:34
<sbalneav>
Actually, I'll correct that.
15:34
It's like, the BIGGEST no-no
15:35
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: yeah, i know :(
15:35
sbalneav: heh..always something w/presidents people try to get them out of office
15:36
clinton smoked a little pot, bush broke constitutional law, obama wasn't born here =p
15:36
(satirical emphasis on the second)
15:37
<weirddood55>
Can ltsp create an image for me that can be used more like a diskless client. I tried the Ubuntu Fat Client instructions but most of the applications still run on the server
15:37
<arx>
...spoke too soon.. it's still timing out. I ran: ltsp-update-sshkeys then ltsp-update-image. I am going to rebuild the whole chroot again.... will report back when it is done; taking forever today.
15:37
<alkisg>
arx: just try to ssh to the server and see the logs
15:37
from a local client terminal (=alt+ctrl+f1)
15:38
<sbalneav>
yeah, could be something going on with your sshd.
15:38
<arx>
too late, I whacked the boot image already and the client is off :(
15:39
I had changed the IP address, but not restarted my nic, so I think that might have tainted my chroot/image...
15:40
<alkisg>
Well, you don't have to rebuild the chroot every time you change your ip :)
15:40
An ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image is enough
15:41
If that doesn't work, then it probably isn't an ip problem...
15:41
<arx>
did I forgot to change some other files besides /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
15:41
<alkisg>
No, if your client booted that all those were fine
15:42
*then
15:42
<arx>
humm....
15:44
ok, I will try not to delete my chroot again... hehe. it looks like it's gonna take forever and a day to rebuild (again) *sigh*... so I'll stop back in when it finishes if I still have probs. thx guys!
15:45scottmaccal_ has quit IRC
15:46
<Lns>
arx: why not use a network mirror for building the chroot?
15:47
i.e. ltsp-build-client --mirror <mirror.url>
15:47
<alkisg>
or the alternate cd as a source...
15:47
<Lns>
poor ubuntu.com
15:49* alkisg downloaded the karmic.iso in 38 seconds today... sigh... I wish my home adsl was also a gigabit connection to the internet :(
15:49
<Lns>
lol
15:49
gotta love internet exchanges!
15:50
<alkisg>
21 Mb/sec, that was the best downloading experience ever
15:50
<Lns>
i used to admin a few dns/mx servers that had direct ethernet (bout 30mb/sec) at some exchanges...man i loved that
15:51
of course the largest bandwidth i used there was using apt-get =p
15:51
but STILL!
15:51
<alkisg>
Yeah with that kind of speeds, hard disks wouldn't be needed anymore
15:52
<Lns>
seriously. well in a few years SSD will be up to snuff hopefully
15:53
did you hear the story yesterday about intel (i think?) who improved write speed by about 30% in their SSDs? (but then took the firmware upgrade offline because of problems w/some people)
15:53
<sbalneav>
I've been using it in my netbook for a while now. I'm quite happy with SSD
15:53
<Lns>
me too, got one of the oldest eeepcs w/4gb ssd, heh..no issues (knocks on wood)
15:53
<alkisg>
sbalneav: can you run an hdparm on it? to see how it compares to normal HDs?
15:54
sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda
15:54
/dev/sda: Timing cached reads: 5232 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2621.49 MB/sec
15:54
Timing buffered disk reads: 170 MB in 3.02 seconds = 56.34 MB/sec
15:55
<arx>
Lns: didn't know about that :) thanks for the tip.
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16:13
<mr-dedup>
I have to create mkinitrd img, why is this not available in ubuntu
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16:23
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Well, it's definitely slower than a hard drive
16:23
<alkisg>
sbalneav: how much? 20 ?
16:23
<sbalneav>
598.17 MB/s cached
16:23
<johnny>
mr-dedup, huh? ubuntu doesn't use mkinitrd
16:23
iirc
16:24
that's an rpm based distro thing..
16:24
<sbalneav>
37.21mb/s cached
16:24
<johnny>
ubuntu/debian use whatever comes with initramfs-tools
16:24
<sbalneav>
so, about 5 times slower.
16:24
<alkisg>
Ah, not bad... I've heard of some extreme bandwidth reports though with some SSDs, more than 100 Mb/s...
16:24
sbalneav: no mine had 58
16:24
The first one is mostly measuring the CPU speed
16:24
<sbalneav>
ah
16:25
WRITE speeds are definitely slow.
16:25
I mean, I wouldn't want an SSD in a server machine yet
16:25
but for my little netbook, it's pretty peppy
16:26
<alkisg>
I think they're going to be a lot faster than the hard disk really soon...
16:26
<sbalneav>
Oh, probably.
16:26
<alkisg>
...as they can be massively parallelized
16:29
<sbalneav>
I've been quite pleased.
16:35alkisg has quit IRC
16:35* Lns waves goodbye for the day
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16:41
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav, let me know when those pics go up!
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17:23* vagrantc wonders if freegeekvancouver is having mail troubles
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18:07
<dro>
whoa pxelinux.cfg/default looks different
18:07
I am trying to add IPAPPEND 3 to 9.10 pxelinux.cfg/default, anyone tested it yet?
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18:25
<dro>
whoa, i tried to do sudo adduser and it said only one or two can be allowed?
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19:00
<Eeyore-Jr>
not true
19:00
dro u adding the same user?
19:00
over and over?
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19:06
<dro>
Eeyore-Jr: yea, fixed it by doing: sudo adduser test
19:06
lol
19:06
by just doing sudo adduser
19:06
it tried to add my current user
19:06
lol
19:06
to mee, seems like a bug but who knows
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20:46
<sbalneav>
cd
20:56Pulga has joined #ltsp
20:56
<Pulga>
what happened with ltsp.org??
21:05
<dro>
anyone setup proxydhcp for 9.10?
21:12
<Pulga>
what happened with ltsp.org??
21:13
<dro>
anyone using rdesktop with 9.10 ?
21:35
anyone around tonight?
21:35
my old lts.conf config for rdesktop isn't working with 9.10
21:35
seems like the screen is off
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21:36
<dro>
it was on SCREEN_02 before, but shell was on screen_03, and now shell in the example lts.conf is on screen_07
21:36
maybe i'll try screen_06 for rdesktop
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21:47
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:47
<dro>
good evening
21:47
<sbalneav>
Pulga: Pardon?
21:48
<dro>
I am having one heck of a time, getting rdesktop to work with 9.10
21:48
sbalneav: looks like www.ltsp.org is down
21:48
<sbalneav>
Yup
21:48
it does.
21:49
<Pulga>
is it down?
21:49
<dro>
sbalneav: do you nkow if I would use a screen script for rdesktop like in 9.04, or a different way for 9.10
21:50
<sbalneav>
Pulga: looks like it.
21:50
<Pulga>
ok
21:50
<sbalneav>
dro: should be the regular screen script.
21:51
<dro>
sbalneav: it's no bueno, not working at all
21:51
i guess i could check to make rdesktop is installed, but it should be by default
21:52
<sbalneav>
I'm not sure wether it's installed by default in the chroot or not.
21:53
rdesktop connects to windows machines.
21:53
and I have very
21:53
VERY
21:53
<dro>
it is, i just checked
21:53
<sbalneav>
few of those in my life :)
21:54
<dro>
i am jealous of you sir
21:54
<sbalneav>
so, what's it doing?
21:55
<dro>
basically just reboots over and over and over again
21:55
for giggles i'm doing a sudo ltsp-update-image right now
22:00
still no luck
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22:14
<dro>
sbalneav: i copied the lts.conf from my last server to this one
22:14
using the same basic rdesktop screen script
22:16
<sbalneav>
you copied over the rdesktop script?
22:17
<dro>
i am using the default one
22:17
rdesktop
22:18
i am using a customized screen script at anotyher site, but this one is just using the old plain jane rdesktop
22:18
it also exists, it's int he right stop
22:18
*spot
22:18
/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/rdesktop
22:18
i took out all ym rdesktop options, left it just at -a 16
22:19
most basic option
22:19
<sbalneav>
Can you pastebot your lts.conf file?
22:19
!pastebot
22:19
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
22:20
<dro>
ok ltsp.org is down
22:20
lol
22:20
it's small, i'll slip it in here
22:20
[default]
22:20
RDP_OPTIONS = "-a 16"
22:20
SCREEN_02 = rdesktop
22:20
RDP_SERVER = 172.16.1.6
22:24
i'm a retard
22:24
sigh, thats what I get for having too many customers
22:24
this site is 172.17.1.6
22:24
lol
22:24
works now
22:25
<sbalneav>
there you go.
22:26
<dro>
sbalneav: ty for your help
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22:29
<sbalneav>
I didn't do much :)
22:29
But your welcome :)
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22:31
<sbalneav>
Morning alkisg
22:31
So federico said he'd sponsor me for a git account upstream at gnome.
22:31
<alkisg>
Hello sbalneav, hi all
22:32
<dro>
hiya alkisg
22:33
<alkisg>
sbalneav: congrats! So we're gonna have a lobster-powered sabayon, cool! :)
22:35* sbalneav digs into ltspfs
22:38
<sbalneav>
And to think it started with this:
22:38
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/sabayon-list/2009-January/msg00000.html
22:38
Now, 10 months later, I'm upstream :)
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22:46
<sbalneav>
hey vagrantc
22:46* vagrantc waves
22:47
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: pere mentioned something about a pam module needing fixing in debian.
22:47
Can you remember what module it was?
22:47
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: not off the top of my head
22:48
pam this, pam that. when are people going to talk about *my* needs.
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22:51* vagrantc would probably be having post-hackfest blues by now
22:51
<vagrantc>
that seemed like a really short weekend, from an outsiders perspective
22:52
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: What do you need?
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22:54
<vagrantc>
well, i guess i can't complain much. i've got food, shelter, and a name that makes people say "what?" the first few times.
22:54
<sbalneav>
lol
22:54
You own a cat?
22:55
<vagrantc>
no, even better. the room-mates got em.
22:55
all the fun, without most of the hassle
22:55
<sbalneav>
ok...
22:55* sbalneav thinks hard
22:55
<sbalneav>
Are you loved?
22:56
<vagrantc>
probably.
22:56
<sbalneav>
ok, well, there you go then.
22:56
If you said no, I was gonna say I loved you.
22:57
but since you DIDN'T....
22:57* sbalneav goes off in a huff to cry...
22:57
<vagrantc>
i'll keep that in mind, in a dark hour...
22:57
speaking of dark... the sun seems to be hanging out with a different crowd now.
22:57
<sbalneav>
gonna have to be pretty freaking dark to get any comfort out of the fact that I love you. :)
22:58
Yes!
22:58
it's that whole 23 1/3 degree tilt thingy.
22:59
<vagrantc>
at least we've got global warming!
23:00
<sbalneav>
foop on that. When it gets wet enough on old planet earth, Scotty's gonna be swimmin', seeing as how where I live used to be at the bottom of a freaking LAKE when it was warmer :(
23:01
I'm hoping I'll be safely dead and buried by that time.
23:01
<vagrantc>
invest in a houseboat. i always thought it'd be cool to live in a houseboat.
23:02
<sbalneav>
Meanwhile, I recycle, drive an efficient 4 cyl car, compost, etc.
23:02* vagrantc just picked up the second hummer
23:03
<sbalneav>
The thought of YOU driving around in a hummer is fantastic :)
23:05
Chatting to jammcq
23:06
he says innurnet is borken at the office, comcats will fix tomorrow.
23:29
Hmm.
23:30
So, I'm thinking, in the same way we "fake out" the user and group id's I should "fake out" the perms in ltspfs.
23:30
by default, all files will umask 700
23:30
<dberkholz>
the answer is xml
23:30
<sbalneav>
buh?
23:31
<alkisg>
Nah, the answer is 42... :)
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23:31
<alkisg>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_Universe.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29
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23:32
<sbalneav>
"When trying to solve a problem, oftentimes a programmer will think: 'I know, I can use Regular Expressions'. Now he has TWO problems."
23:32
<vagrantc>
only two?
23:33
seems like regex allows for a plethora of failure paths
23:34
<dberkholz>
just imagine a regex syntax specified by xml
23:34
<sbalneav>
I always liked the XKCD cartoon, "Stand Back! I know Regular Expressions!"
23:34
<xml>
23:34
<incomprehensible goo>
23:35
(@#&^$)(*&@&^#*&||||
23:35
</incomprehensible goo>
23:35
</xml>
23:35
dberkholz: so, what's XML the answer TO?
23:37
<dberkholz>
sbalneav: any question related to data or possibly programming too, if xslt is brought in
23:51* vagrantc wonders if a self-editing regex will create AI
23:52
<johnny>
sbalneav, html seems to work pretty well
23:52
xml is good for that :)
23:52
if you use xhtml..