IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 November 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:04
<lumpy4565>
To modify LDM left down corner menu, which files should be modified?
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02:08
<muppis>
lumpy4565, what you want to modify from it?
02:09
<lumpy4565>
muppis: I would like to get the shutdown button out of this menu
02:09
so that users see it immediatly
02:10
<muppis>
lumpy4565, is your actual problem that when you select 'Shutdown' from Gnome, it just drops you to LDM login?
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02:11
<lumpy4565>
no not really, this isn't a problem
02:12
I just think users would find easier to see the shutdown button when they logged out
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02:16
<muppis>
Well, I just though it would easier to fix Shutdown from Gnome than edit that button.
02:17
<Appiah>
I think users should have a shutdown button on the desktop
02:18
to shutdown the server
02:18
:)
02:18
<alkisg1>
lumpy4565: you'd have to modify the ldmgtkgreeter source code. But ldm is undergoing many changes now, maybe in a newer version it'll be easier to get what you want with no source modifications.
02:18
<lumpy4565>
muppis, you're right in fact it would be even easier with a Gnome shutdown
02:19
<alkisg1>
That's easy to do :)
02:19
<lumpy4565>
alkisg1 OK
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02:19
<muppis>
Command this at server: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
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02:20
<alkisg>
muppis: give a warning though that our repository contains a lot of newer package versions, not just gnome-session...
02:20
(and it's usually only for lucid)
02:20
<muppis>
alkisg, thanks. I didn't know that.
02:21
<alkisg>
https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/
02:21
<lumpy4565>
Is it suitable for Squeeze ?
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02:21
<alkisg>
lumpy4565: nope
02:22
lumpy4565: you'd have to manually apply that patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
02:22
...or just use a desktop shortcut instead of modifying gnome-session
02:22
<muppis>
Gotta go rollover one Debian installation.. ;)
02:22
<alkisg>
muppis: you tried it and it worked?! :D
02:23
Heh, I think Lucid's gnome-session has a lot of ubuntu-specific patches... weird that it works on debian
02:24
<muppis>
alkisg, I meant replacing it with Ubuntu. :)
02:24
<alkisg>
Ah. Heh :)
02:25
<lumpy4565>
mmmmh... Maybe not
02:25
replacing Debian by Ubuntu for a shutdown button!
02:26
<alkisg>
lumpy4565: you can easily put a shutdown button on the desktop
02:26
...or in a gnome menu
02:27
<lumpy4565>
alkisg: The button should call the code from the patch you pointed?
02:27
<alkisg>
lumpy4565: it should call xprop to set the ldm logout action, and then dbus for logging out
02:28
xprop -root -f LTSP_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LTSP_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT
02:28
dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.SessionManager --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.Logout uint32:1
02:29
(or instead of dbus-send you can also use gnome-session-save --logout)
02:29
<lumpy4565>
alkisg: great, thank you!
02:29
<alkisg>
np
02:42
<lumpy4565>
OK, it works perfectly!
02:42
and I still have a little question : what's the difference of using gnome-session-save --logout instead of dbus-send?
02:43
<gnunux>
hi
02:43
<alkisg>
lumpy4565: old way vs new way (dbus)
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02:44
<lumpy4565>
OK, so thanks for the help!
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03:05
<Trixboxer>
Hi alkisg
03:06
<alkisg>
Hello
03:06
<Trixboxer>
hmm could you please have a look at http://pastebin.com/fitLwXSD
03:06
its the dmesg output of one of the fat-client whos applications are crashing
03:08
<alkisg>
I see segfaults but I don't see a reason there
03:08
<Trixboxer>
neither I
03:08
its just comes and apps are closed
03:09
I think it must be something related to hardware
03:09
<Hyperbyte>
Trixboxer: isn't there some error or warning message before the segfaults?
03:09
<Trixboxer>
no
03:10
[ 2393.441284] wnck-applet[1639]: segfault at 1 ip 00f28c16 sp bf95cb4c error 6 in libdbus-1.so.3.4.0[f0e000+37000]
03:10
<Hyperbyte>
Does it happen randomly?
03:10
<Trixboxer>
hex codes only
03:10
yes
03:10
for few minutes all run smooth and suddenly
03:10
<Hyperbyte>
Faulty ram, maybe?
03:10
<Trixboxer>
clock goes .. some applet and other part
03:10
hmm
03:11
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: always on the same client?
03:11
<Trixboxer>
Other clients are running fine so it has to be something with hardware
03:11
yes
03:11
same client
03:11
<alkisg>
Try running a memtest for a few minutes
03:12
<Hyperbyte>
How is your LTSP experience coming along by the way Trixboxer? Starting to like it a bit more? :)
03:12
<Trixboxer>
Its great
03:12
I really love it
03:12
<Hyperbyte>
Heh, cool :)
03:12
<Trixboxer>
I just switched to NFS
03:13
<Hyperbyte>
I recall you being quite fed up with it at first
03:13
Oh, that's interesting.
03:13
<Trixboxer>
I experienced all the phases in production
03:13
first thin clients
03:13
then the fat ones
03:13
<Hyperbyte>
Because I was trying to switch to NFS but failed... can you tell me how you did it? :)
03:13
<Trixboxer>
then chrome problem and now all fixed and running good with NFS
03:13
NFS was so simple and I messed it
03:14
you just need to have a nfs-kernel-server on server side
03:14
nfs-common in client
03:14
<Hyperbyte>
Well, I have NFS working
03:14
<Trixboxer>
and a lts.conf in parallel dir of pxelinux.0
03:14
<Hyperbyte>
I just never figured out how to get LTSP to actually use it
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03:15
<Hyperbyte>
Is it some config setting?
03:15
<Trixboxer>
thanks to alkisg for the syntaz
03:15
syntax*'
03:15
let me pastebin
03:15
<Hyperbyte>
Cool :)
03:16
<Trixboxer>
http://pastebin.com/PaY2688X
03:16
have you exported your /home over NFS ?
03:18
<Hyperbyte>
NFS export/server is fine.
03:18
What do I do with NFS_HOME when my NFS server is a different machine than the terminal server?
03:18
<Trixboxer>
hm
03:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: NFS_HOME=server-ip:/home
03:19
<Trixboxer>
my config is like http://pastebin.com/Hq7Txu57
03:19
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: that's for fat clients, not thin clients.
03:19
<Trixboxer>
dont forget the security
03:19
thanks to alkisg
03:20
alkisg: Using async in NFS improves performance.. do you think that its really necessary on a LAN environment
03:22
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: I didn't have time to do any benchmarks with different NFS options.
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03:53
<elias_a>
Which log should I be looking at the client only shows a grey screen instead of login screen?
03:53
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg: it's not for thin clients? Why not?
03:53
<elias_a>
Fresh installation of 10.04.
04:06
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: thin client processes work on the server, so there's no need to mount nfs locally on the thin client
04:07
<Trixboxer>
yes NFS wont be needed if its thin client
04:07
<alkisg>
elias_a: for starters, what does ps -ef give you?
04:07
There's also /var/log/ldm.log
04:07
<elias_a>
alkisg: Thanks - found another problem. Will get back to this :)
04:07
<Trixboxer>
you can also check for the /var/log/daemon.log
04:10
<elias_a>
No, the problem is that the dudes have installed the system on an AMD 64 server and there's no 32-bit support for clients.
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04:12
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg: well, I use localapps. I'd like to use NFS for that instead of sshfs, because the terminal server has already mounted /home/ over NFS... so you get sshfs over nfs, which seems a bit redundant
04:13
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: yes the idea is to use NFS *instead* of sshfs, let me see if the current code works for localapps...
04:13
<Hyperbyte>
But NFS_HOME config option didn't really work
04:13
Said it couldn't mount, which is funny.. because after boot I manually mounted it without problems
04:13
But either way it doesn't matter that much. All it does is read a few config files via sshfs.
04:14
<elias_a>
I've never added 32-bit support in a 64-bit system. Any hints to how to?
04:15
<Trixboxer>
Did you try ltsp-build-client --arch i386 ?
04:15
<elias_a>
Trixboxer: Yep - Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 doesn't exist.
04:16
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: by looking at the code I think it should work
04:16
<elias_a>
Do I just create the dir or should it be generated automatically?
04:17
<alkisg>
elias_a: do you currently have an 64bit chroot? Do you want to keep it or delete it?
04:17
<Hyperbyte>
mhm.
04:17
<elias_a>
alkisg: delete it.
04:17
<Trixboxer>
what is the content of /opt/ltsp/ ?
04:17
<alkisg>
elias_a: then just run sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp; sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
04:17
<elias_a>
amd64 images
04:17
alkisg: Will try.
04:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: distro/version?
04:18
<Hyperbyte>
Fedora 13
04:18
5.1.95-1.fc13.x86_64
04:18
:)
04:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: no idea about fedora, sorry
04:19
<Trixboxer>
hmm Fedora.. never tried :(
04:19
any specific reasons for fedora ?
04:22
<Hyperbyte>
Never used anything else.
04:22
So, no, no specific reason... just habit. :)
04:22
It's what I'm used to.
04:23
<Trixboxer>
May be you could try ubuntu 10.04 or the latest 10.10
04:24
<Hyperbyte>
No thanks, I finally have LTSP working the way I want it. :-D
04:24
Not gonna change now.
04:24
But in hindsight, when I started implementing this, that would've been a nice experiment.
04:44
<elias_a>
After installing 32-bit system what do i change in order to boot to i386?
04:44
Is changing /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf enough?
04:44
<Hyperbyte>
Yep
04:44
<elias_a>
I mean changes to that file?
04:45
Do I have to reboot some processes?
04:45
I mean restart...
04:46
<Hyperbyte>
dhcpd
04:47
<elias_a>
right...
04:49
Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist.
04:50
The funny thing is that it is not mentioned in dhcpd.conf...
04:51
http://pastebin.com/8tfVg6ZR
04:53
Where is it defined?
04:54
<muppis>
Does restart of dhcpd gave that?
04:55
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, you also want to change /etc/exports and restart nfs
04:55
But that probably won't solve your current issue.
04:56
<elias_a>
muppis: No, ltsp-update-image
04:56
Maybe I should try
04:56
ltsp-build-client --base /opt/ltsp --chroot i386
04:56
<Hyperbyte>
--arch ?
04:57
<muppis>
arch would be correct instead of chroot
04:57
<Hyperbyte>
11:17 <alkisg> elias_a: then just run sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp; sudo
04:57
ltsp-build-client --arch i386
04:57
<elias_a>
right - sorry :)
04:57
<Hyperbyte>
Did you do that?
04:57
Because you don't need the --base argument. Just ltsp-build-client --arch i386
04:58
Then you edit dhcpd.conf and nfs exports, and you should be done.
04:58
(after restarting dhcpd, nfs)
04:59
<muppis>
elias_a, and you don't even need --arch if look at this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Creating%20ltsp-build-client.conf
05:00
<elias_a>
muppis: Thanks!
05:06
I did what alkisg suggested - now I am probably stuck to the nfs exports. What should I do about that?
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05:06
<muppis>
elias_a, about home dirs?
05:06
<elias_a>
I have successfully built tie i386 structure.
05:06
the i386....
05:08
<Hyperbyte>
What's in /etc/exports ?
05:08
If there's anything with amd64, change it to i386
05:08
<elias_a>
OK.
05:08
Let's see.
05:09
<Hyperbyte>
(you also have to restart nfsd)
05:09
I think, anyways.
05:10
Or exportfs -ra should also work
05:11
<Trixboxer>
Hyperbyte: Why there is any need of i386 in /etc/exports ?
05:11
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Umm.... there is not a file /etc/exports
05:11
<Trixboxer>
I dint get that
05:11
<alkisg>
elias_a: are you trying fat clients? Or just making a new chroot for thin clients?
05:11
<Trixboxer>
elias_a: and do you want NFS ? then only worry about the /etc/exports
05:11
<elias_a>
alkisg: New chroot for thins instead of the 64 bit chroot that was created during installation.
05:11
<alkisg>
elias_a: then you don't need *anything* NFS related
05:12
<elias_a>
alkisg: Began to think so....
05:12
<Trixboxer>
elias_a: what's the client config ?
05:12
<alkisg>
Do you have any problems now?
05:13
<Hyperbyte>
Wait, you don't need anything NFS related? Doesn't LTSP use NFS to mount it's operating system?
05:13
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: not in ubuntu
05:14
It uses nbd by default
05:14
(for speed)
05:14
<Hyperbyte>
Oh!
05:14
Well my bad. I didn't know that.
05:14
Fedora uses NFS to mount the root.
05:14
<elias_a>
The client nags that the nbd server does not reply.
05:14
seen from the server: ubuntu@eduvomltsp1:/etc$ sudo /etc/init.d/nbd-server start
05:14
** (process:3716): WARNING **: Could not parse config file: Could not open config file /etc/nbd-server/config.
05:15
<ltsplogbot>
I don't know who from is.
05:15
<alkisg>
NBD is faster than NFS, and it can also be compressed about 3 times smaller, resulting in dramatically increased network disk speed
05:15
<elias_a>
** Message: Nothing to do! Bye!
05:15
<alkisg>
elias_a: don't restart nbd-server that way
05:15
it's probably a port or path problem
05:15
What is the output of the following commands?
05:15
grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
05:15
grep nbd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
05:16
grep ltsp /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
05:16
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg: the speed increase of using nbd would only be experienced during startup, correct?
05:16
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: yes, and for any localapps or fat clients using the network disk
05:16
Hyperbyte: e.g. for openoffice I see 2-3 secs instead of 15 secs
05:17
(on fat clients)
05:17
<Hyperbyte>
That's a huge improvement.
05:17
<alkisg>
Yup, and it also allows for 3 times larger disk caches, resulting in more improvement
05:17
<Hyperbyte>
I've decided to run everything on the server though... I might come back from that later, but so far it seems to do ok.
05:17
<alkisg>
(only if compression is on)
05:18
<Hyperbyte>
Or I might buy a more kickass server later, could go either way. :-D
05:18
<elias_a>
alkisg: inetd.conf: http://pastebin.com/EqNkvXHN
05:18
ubuntu@eduvomltsp1:/etc$ grep nbd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
05:18
append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2000
05:19
<alkisg>
elias_a: change amd64 with i386 in inetd.conf, and restart inet: sudo invoke-rc.d openbsd-inet restart
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05:20
<elias_a>
And the last one:
05:20
http://pastebin.com/ZPfsU7CV
05:20
alkisg: Thank you!
05:21
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: imho nfs is just fine for thin clients, 10-30 secs difference in boot time isn't worth the nbd trouble
05:21
For localapps/fat clients it does make a big difference though
05:21
<Hyperbyte>
My thoughts. :-)
05:23
<elias_a>
invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/openbsd-inet not found.
05:25
This is not my day really...
05:26
I will request that they boot it locally where the server is.
05:26
<alkisg>
elias_a: inetd, with a d in the end
05:26
<elias_a>
alkisg: Wow - I am getting blind... ;-)
05:27
<alkisg>
elias_a: nope, I wrote it wrong :D
05:27
Using autocomplete there helps e.g. openb<tab>
05:27
<elias_a>
alkisg: I am getting dumb as well :)
05:35
<muppis>
Problem in playing DVD in thin. VLC and libdvdcss2 installed as local-app, what else I need?
05:42
VLC could not open MRL-location "dvd:///dev/dvd"
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08:18
<robehend1>
here's a random question. Is it possible to make it so when a machine pxe boots, I can pick which server it goes off of? Idea comes from me having LTSP up and going, but having FOG pxe boot for imaging my windows machines.
08:19
currently I just go into the DHCP and change the settings when I need to image, but this of course kills thin client booting until it's finished. I know I can do it with mac filtering, but I'm hoping for something more dynamic
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08:21
<Trixboxer>
robehend1: what is " but having FOG pxe boot for imaging my windows machines." ?
08:21
I think that image selection rely on DHCP server
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08:21
<robehend1>
Trixboxer: Fog is a PXE based imaging software. Boots into a small linux over PXE, and then deploys an image over NFS. Very slick if you still need imaging for Windows and such
08:22
Trixboxer: thats what I thought to. Darn. Was hoping I could have a "press 1 for LTSP, press 2 for FOG" setup.
08:22
<Trixboxer>
so you have kept windows on same LTSP server or a different one ?
08:23
<robehend1>
Trixboxer: I still have my staff on Windows. I use a Windows DHCP for the thin clients in that VLAN as well, while my main deployment uses the standard Linux DHCP.
08:23
Trixboxer: So basically, trying to make it so the client boots to the Windows DHCP, and then gets a choice of which PXE server it grabs
08:24
<Trixboxer>
not sure.. LTSP cluster might help
08:24
did you read how that works ?
08:24
<robehend1>
Trixboxer: Yep, wont work here though, as I'm tied to the Windows DHCP due to my lovely windows clients.
08:25
<Trixboxer>
hmm.. Never done that so cant say much
08:28
<robehend1>
Thanks anyways! I'm not even sure if its possible
08:28
another random question: setting up an LTSP box for my local daycare. Anyone have any games they recommend for 4-6 year olds? Box isnt going to have internet access, so has to be all local
08:30
Already going to put TuxPaint and Gcompris on, was wondering if I missed anything though?
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08:35
<crazed>
is it possible to enable NX logins to an ltsp server?
08:35
or something similar
08:35
i want to achieve remote access for people without thin clients
08:35
<robehend1>
crazed: Yes, Just setup Freenx or Neatx on the server, and your golden
08:36
<crazed>
that's it? damn
08:36
awesome.
08:36
<robehend1>
crazed: Oh, and make sure you have the ports setup, etc etc
08:36
crazed: I use it for my students to have remote access as well. One thing to make sure of though. make sure your users cant shutdown the server in their freenx session. unlike LTSP, shutdown will kill the server.
08:40
<Trixboxer>
robehend1: I was reading about Fog, it is not same as LTSP right ? I think its cloning the HDD and then sending it back to the client over network
08:40
correct ?
08:40
<robehend1>
correct
08:41
I'm trying to use both at the same time, which is the problem. I want to be able to boot up a machine, and select either LTSP or Fog
08:41
since I have my staff still clinging to windows xp like a life line, I need the imaging solution.
08:44
<Trixboxer>
robehend1: LTSP sends same environment to all user with their private profile but Fog is sending like his full HDD to him on network
08:44
<crazed>
robehend1: good call, how did you disable shutdown?
08:44
<Trixboxer>
brb
08:44
<robehend1>
Trixboxer: Fog is closer to Symantic Ghost. it doesnt let you boot into anything, it just loads a small linux enviro, and basically rsyncs the hard drive over via nfs. you then boot to the hard drive
08:45
crazed: I setup a profile for my users in Sabayon, removed the shut down buttons from Gnome, and removed access to the terminal.
08:46
crazed: Not the best solution, I'm sure, but it's worked so far.
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08:59
<alkisg>
robehend1: you mean something like this? http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
09:00
<crazed>
that is cool
09:06
<robehend1>
alkisg: Something like that, yes, but instead of 2 LTSP, having 1 LTSP, and 1 FOG. 2 different servers
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09:11
<robehend1>
alkisg: If i'm not mistaken, that's just a Grub2 menu, isnt it?
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09:15
<alkisg>
robehend1: no, that's a pxe menu
09:15
You can serve that to your ltsp/fog clients, and have anything you want in there
09:16
E.g. 1) LTSP, 2) FOG on a different server, 3) Boot locally, 4) Memtest etc etc
09:16
No limit
09:16mordocai has joined #ltsp
09:18
<robehend1>
alkisg: ooo, nice. Do you have any links to how I can edit that?
09:19
<alkisg>
robehend1: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/PXELINUX
09:19
<robehend1>
alkisg: Thanks alkisg. This'll make things much, much easier for me.
09:19
<alkisg>
(or if you want, use google translate on my page: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=2828.0)
09:20
bbl
09:20alkisg has quit IRC
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09:29zz_evil_root is now known as evil_root
09:31
<Trixboxer>
back
09:36
alkisg: The screenshot is really awesome :)
09:42vagrantc has joined #ltsp
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10:13
<sbalneav>
Morning all
10:13gnunux has quit IRC
10:14
<crazed>
what's the name of the thin client manager
10:14
i can't seem to find the command on my box
10:14
though it might not be installed
10:15
<Gadi>
!s
10:15
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:15
<crazed>
lol
10:16
<sbalneav>
Anyone know of any problems with jetpipe and usb serial adapters? I'm trying to get a USB serial adapter connected printer going, and jetpipe keeps crashing.
10:16
Can you su within a ltsp-localapps xterm?
10:17
<crazed>
!SCREEN_02
10:17
<sbalneav>
I suspect that the python program's crapping out when it's trying to set the serial parameters.
10:17
<ltspbot>
crazed: "SCREEN_02" :: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client, put these in your lts.conf: (default <name>) -- Returns the default value of the configuration variable <name>. {enter}SCREEN_02=shell{enter}SCREEN_07=ldm{enter}. Then reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to get to the root shell.
10:17
<crazed>
sbalneav: ^
10:17
<sbalneav>
yeah, the old way.
10:17
that was what I thought.
10:19
bbiab
10:19
<Gadi>
sbalneav: you should be able to su
10:19
sbalneav: and I have doen USB-serial adapters with jetpipe
10:20
I think I need to specif the device as /dev/ttyUSB0
10:20
or some such
10:22staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:22* vagrantc waves to sbalneav
10:24
<sbalneav>
Back
10:24
Hey Gadi, vagrantc
10:24
yeah, it craps out when it tries to set line discipline.
10:24
<vagrantc>
ltspbot: learn SCREEN_02 for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
10:24
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
10:25
<vagrantc>
ltspbot: learn SCREEN_02 as for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
10:25
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
10:25
<Trixboxer>
good night guys
10:25
<vagrantc>
!SCREEN_02
10:25
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "SCREEN_02" :: (#1) To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client, put these in your lts.conf: (default <name>) -- Returns the default value of the configuration variable <name>. {enter}SCREEN_02=shell{enter}SCREEN_07=ldm{enter}. Then reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to get to the root shell., or (#2) for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
10:25
<vagrantc>
of course, the name is kind of silly
10:25Trixboxer has quit IRC
10:30
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, I need to disable the fork into the background, so I can see the error message that it spits out.
10:31
we ought to have a --foreground option, for this sort of thing.
10:34
<vagrantc>
Gadi: pushed a change that should allow setting localtime for the hardware clock ...
10:43
<Gadi>
vagrantc: actually, do you think we should have an option to not call hwclock at all?
10:43* Gadi wonders how the distros handle this in dual-boot cases
10:46
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, I'm also wondering if we should add a dependency on the python-daemon package. That way, we could eliminate all the double-fork code with just a "import daemon" with daemon.DaemonContext(): do_main_program()
10:47
<vagrantc>
Gadi: maybe
10:48
sbalneav: sounds like a good idea
10:48
presuming, of course, it works :)
10:48
<sbalneav>
ok, I'll work on that for a bit, see if I can clean up the code. I'll propose a patch in -devel
10:49
<vagrantc>
apparently, python-daemon isn't available in stock lenny, but it is available in backports, so that should be fine.
10:49sebd has quit IRC
10:49
<vagrantc>
that'd be my only consideration
10:49dobber has quit IRC
10:51
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: probably gives a handful of features for (almost) free, too, i'm guessing...
10:52
daemonly stuffs
10:52
<sbalneav>
Well, I'm suspecting it probably does a more "standard" daemonize,
10:52
<vagrantc>
oh
10:52
<sbalneav>
even though we're following St. Stevens anyway :)
10:53* vagrantc isn't up on the old religion
10:53
<vagrantc>
or is it the new religion?
10:53* vagrantc isn't up
10:53
<sbalneav>
You don't have a copy of "Network Programming" by Stevens?!
10:53
http://www.kohala.com/start/unpv12e.html
10:53
<vagrantc>
not autographed, at which point, it's hardly even a relic
10:53
<sbalneav>
Dude.
10:54
<Gadi>
heh. books.
10:54
<ogra_ac>
st stevens? the patron of programming beerdrinkers ?
10:54* vagrantc confesses to have 0 computer-related books
10:55
<vagrantc>
unless you count sci-fi short story collections, which have a thin veneer of computerness occasionally
10:55
<sbalneav>
His TCP illustrated series is *THE* canonical documentation of the TCP/IP protocol.
10:55
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: does it document all the moves to the happy packet dance?
10:55* vagrantc wants TCP illustrated, illuminated edition
10:57
<vagrantc>
"this copy was painstakingly hand-copied by monks with gold-laced ink"
10:57
for a limited time...
10:59
<Gadi>
I prefer Al Gore's illustrated TCP comic book
11:00
he's by far the bigger authority
11:02RiXtEr has quit IRC
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11:03
<vagrantc>
*ka-pow!*
11:04
take that, network neutrality!
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11:36
<alkisg>
Hi all
11:36
vagrantc: maybe the value for UTC= in /etc/default/rcS should be used?
11:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: maybe
11:38
alkisg: i just made it a little more configurable than it was
11:38
alkisg: probably isn't distro-agnostic, though
11:38
is present on debian.
11:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sure it's better now, but I wonder if it should source /etc/default/rcS and check UTC and not offer any other configuration option at all
11:39
Ah, rcS could not be distro-agnostic? Well, they'd need to put their own code then? I'm sure they have something similar...
11:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: also, you might have some machines that are localtime, and others that aren't ...
11:40
alkisg: i.e. one machine is dual-boot but none of the others are...
11:40
<alkisg>
True
11:40
<vagrantc>
in that case, i'd favor an lts.conf option...
11:41
<alkisg>
But if I was an admin there, I'd use the same setting in all clients
11:41
<vagrantc>
i hear you
11:41
<Gadi>
alkisg: have you had an issue in any of your dual-boot LTSP/Windows local, where the clock gets meesed up on the Windows side?
11:41
<vagrantc>
i'm not an admin anywhere where there are machines that get confused with the hardware clock set to UTC :)
11:42
<alkisg>
Gadi: I've seen that, and the solution was to change that UTC=yes/no line in rcS
11:42
<Gadi>
ah
11:42
<sbalneav>
OK, bbiab, I've got a jetpipe with a debug mode, that uses the python-daemon package, I'm just going to reboot here, and find out where it's crapping out
11:50
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i've definitely found some USB serial adapters much more reliable than others.
11:51
the best kind have das blinkenlights
12:10
<highvoltage>
salut a tous
12:12
<alkisg>
Can anyone suggest a cheap + small + low specs thin client? No audio or even vga ports needed...
12:16
<robehend1>
alkisg: No vga?
12:16
<highvoltage>
if you don't mind going arm-based then there are some nice small machines that aren't expensive.
12:17
<alkisg>
highvoltage: sure, anything that can run the linux kernel will do
12:17
robehend1: yes, they'll only be accessed through ethernet
12:17
<robehend1>
alkisg: Ah...makes sense now.
12:17
<alkisg>
(not as thin clients, as appliances)
12:17
<robehend1>
alkisg: and here I thought you were just doing more of your wizardry with LTSP
12:19
<alkisg>
It *is* possible that they'll end up booting an OS with LTSP over http... :D
12:19
<robehend1>
alkisg: I knew it couldnt be as cut and dry as a headless appliance ;)
12:19
<highvoltage>
alkisg: stgraber has one of these: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
12:20
alkisg: it's a nice quiet and cool little machine
12:20
<alkisg>
highvoltage: nice, links?
12:20
<highvoltage>
alkisg: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
12:20
<robehend1>
highvoltage: Wow, those arent badly priced either.
12:20* vagrantc has an efikamx too
12:21
<highvoltage>
robehend1: seems like arm-based stuff is quite competitive price-wise indeed!
12:21
<vagrantc>
they use USB ethernet and don't support network boot, though :(
12:21
<robehend1>
highvoltage: I'm looking at replacing some of my old workstations-turned-thin clients, so those might fit the bill...they handle Localapps well, you know?
12:22
<alkisg>
Hmmm wifi, ssd, card reader... they rise the price but I don't need those :(
12:22
<vagrantc>
robehend1: pretty experimental so far ... require a custom kernel.
12:22
<highvoltage>
robehend1: they should do localapps, but I think their driver support is very bad atm, so you wouldn't be able to run something like googleearth on them
12:22
<robehend1>
robehend1: Darn, there goes that idea.
12:22
<highvoltage>
alkisg: ogra_ac will probably know of some other cheaper (and simpler) machines, but you might have to build your own casings then :)
12:23* vagrantc just happened to be writing a summary of experiments with the efikamx and the armhf architecture
12:23
<highvoltage>
robehend1: aparently it's coming, though. so they should soon be good general-purpose machines
12:23
<robehend1>
highvoltage: works for me. i'm just gonna have kids in Firefox, mostly
12:24
<highvoltage>
isn't that illegal!?
12:24
</bad joke>
12:24
<vagrantc>
the extension management is brutal
12:24
<robehend1>
firefox extensions, or standard extensions
12:24
<vagrantc>
better to keep them in virtual machines.
12:24
<alkisg>
Thank you highvoltage, ogra_ac if you got any tips I'm all ears (just need a cpu, 128 ram, ethernet and a little local storage for the linux kernel)
12:24
<robehend1>
wizardry!
12:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: how powerful
12:25
<alkisg>
vagrantc: not at all, it'll just forward an mpeg stream through openssl without reenconding it
12:25
So I'm guessing the equivelant of a 400 mhz celeron
12:26
Of course if it's better than that, we won't complain :D
12:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've got one of the disklessworkstations.com 1200 series (actually an earlier variant) that would seem to meet most of that ...
12:27
alkisg: though those run around US$290
12:27Blinn1 has joined #ltsp
12:27
<robehend1>
vagrantc: at that price, your better off buying an EEEpc or something
12:27
<vagrantc>
looks like the 1600 is a little cheaper with a lot more...
12:27RiXtEr has quit IRC
12:28
<vagrantc>
what do eeepc's run these days?
12:28
<alkisg>
Ouch. The cheapest I've seen so far are those (2 packs for 140€): http://shop.artecgroup.com/products/thincan-dbe61a-eth-2-pack
12:28
<Blinn1>
Sound should work on clients even if the server doesn't have a sound card, right?
12:28RiXtEr has joined #ltsp
12:28
<robehend1>
Blinn1: Yep
12:28
<alkisg>
The beagleboard is also very nice and powerfull, at 149$
12:28
<robehend1>
beagleboards are handy. we've got one we use in my robotics class, insted of arduinos
12:29
<Blinn1>
robehend1: Thank you.
12:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: probably hard to beat that ... although the thincans may have some issues with network booting (not sure if they've been fixed)
12:30
<robehend1>
vagrantc: If you can find one without an OS, 200 ish USD
12:30
<ogra_ac>
alkisg, sorry, i didnt follow, what do you look for ?
12:30
alkisg, oh, arm hardware
12:30
<alkisg>
ogra_ac: something cheap, *not* powerful, to use for forwarding mpeg streams from ip -cameras
12:30
<ogra_ac>
take the pandaboard
12:31
might be a bit overpowered compared to a beagle XM
12:31
12:31
see pandaboard.org
12:31
<Blinn1>
Is there an up-to-date-ish sound troubleshooting faq? I'm on Ubuntu Hardy and one of my server's clients have no sound.
12:31
<alkisg>
ogra_ac: can we easily find cases for those?
12:32
<ogra_ac>
http://elinux.org/Panda_Bamboo
12:32
its in the works
12:32
but you can also just fit it into a breadbox ;)
12:32
its about the size of a CDrom
12:32
if you need super small, look at gumstix
12:33
http://www.gumstix.com/
12:33
<alkisg>
Hmm we might need some hundends of those, so manual casing isn't an option...
12:34
gumstix look interesting... reading...
12:34
<ogra_ac>
not sure they offer any casing
12:34
<robehend1>
i like the look of those gumstrix as well..
12:34
<ogra_ac>
and its more expensive than beagle or panda
12:34
<alkisg>
Ah :(
12:35
Does beagle have casings? Or it's in the works like panda?
12:35
<ogra_ac>
if you really needs them with case, go for beagle XM
12:35
http://specialcomp.com/beagleboard/
12:36
they only offer acrylic transparent cases though
12:36
<alkisg>
Cool, thank you
12:37
<ogra_ac>
12:37
512MB/1GHz, needs micro SD card for OS
12:38
<Gadi>
alkisg: how many units do you need?
12:38
<alkisg>
Gadi: initially just a couple for testing, and later on maybe more than 100
12:41
<Blinn1>
None of my clients have volume sliders. I do have /usr/bin/pulseaudio running on the server for each client.
12:41
<Gadi>
Blinn1: pulseaudio runs on the client, not the server
12:42
<Blinn1>
No pul* processes on the client. Wonder how I manage that then.
12:43
<highvoltage>
ogra_ac: lol, I love how they say "color: black" and then have a picture of a white box beneath it :)
12:44
<Blinn1>
BRB
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12:48
<Blinn1>
No luck. I remember there used to be a step-by-step faq for sound problems - Does anyone have a link for this or am I remembering incorrectly?
12:48
<ogra_ac>
highvoltage, heh
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12:57
<sbalneav>
\o/
12:58
<robehend1>
i had the luck of introducing my kindergarten classrooms to Childsplay today. I now have a request to remove their macs, and put LTSP in on all machines
12:58
<vagrantc>
wow
12:58
<sbalneav>
Well, after I switched to the daemon method, for whatever reason, that fixed my jetpipe exiting problem
12:58
<vagrantc>
robehend1: get em young :)
12:58
<sbalneav>
robehend1: congrats.
12:59
<robehend1>
I'm always happy when I can get rid of yet another Mac..whatever possessed this building to have only that is beyond me.
12:59
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: I'll post a patch to -devel, we can hash around if we want to use it.
13:01
<robehend1>
does LTSP have any support for touch-screens baked in, or am I looking at a custom kernel
13:01
<johnny>
that's up the kernel already included
13:02
check that first..
13:02
otherwise you just need to configure the touch screen
13:02
it should already ahve some drivers for various elotouch and any number of already popular touchscreens
13:02
<robehend1>
hmmm..I'll have to check.
13:02
<johnny>
the configuration is done via the lts.conf files, or via an xorg.conf override
13:03
<robehend1>
makes sense. As long as I can get it so they can use my POS, i'm happy
13:05
<johnny>
probabl
13:05
which one is that? that runs on linux? something open?
13:05
<robehend1>
PHP Point of Sale
13:05
works nicely for the kids school store and all.
13:06
I'm just in the process of coding a new front-end to it, more Ipod-touch-esque, so they can just tap with their fingers.
13:08
<sbalneav>
OK, I've sent a mail to ltsp-developer.
13:11
<vagrantc>
alkisg: do you just have to install udhcpc to get the udhcpc hooks to kick in?
13:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: afaik yes
13:11* alkisg never actually used udhcpc yet
13:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: didn't you write the code for it?
13:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no, stgraber wrote the initial code for it and then i rewrote it because I was interested in getting ipappend 3 to work :D
13:13
<vagrantc>
ah!
13:13
right
13:13
i keep forgetting that
13:13
<alkisg>
(actually I had just sent that in a mail so that it gets discussed, it wasn't intented to go upstream... :D)
13:14
<vagrantc>
heh
13:14
<robehend1>
wizardry...
13:14otavio has quit IRC
13:16
<Blinn1>
Does ltspfsd need to be installed on the server?
13:17
<ogra_ac>
no
13:17
only if you use fat cliants
13:17
<Blinn1>
Thank you
13:18
I'm looking at my packages and I can't find any difference between the servers that work and the server that doesn't.
13:20
<vagrantc>
the other way around, you need to install ltspfs into the fat client chroot if you use fat clients
13:20
or am i just confused...
13:20
<Blinn1>
Nah, all my clients are skinny.
13:20
<vagrantc>
defaults should work, then
13:21
<Blinn1>
Yeh. I'll remove / recrease the image and see if that gets me anywhere.
13:21
Thanks vagrantc
13:22litlebuda has joined #ltsp
13:22
<Blinn1>
Why would pulseaudio be running on the server though? And run as the thin client user's uid?
13:23
<johnny>
because that's how sound gets forwarded back to the client sound hardware
13:24
<Blinn1>
But those processes don't exist on my other server with 20 users -- just on this satellite office where the sound is busted.
13:25
Well, let me try this new client chroot and see if poof things magically work.
13:25Blinn1 has quit IRC
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13:27
<Blinn1>
Suddenly, magically, sound.
13:27
Thanks all. Might've been due to a busted script in /etc/X11/XSession.d
13:28chupacabra has quit IRC
13:29
<vagrantc>
hrm... udhcpc seems to be in an endless loop
13:29
of course, the first time i try it in ages, it's on an experimental architecture... so no idea if it's the real problem.
13:31chupacabra has joined #ltsp
13:33
<robehend1>
has anyone done some pretty large deployments, 100+?
13:33litlebuda has joined #ltsp
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13:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: which udhcpc version? I think Lenny has an ancient one (like Lucid)
13:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: 1:1.17.1-6
13:36
<alkisg>
vagrantc: and if you run it from a command line in the busybox, it doesn't get an ip?
13:36
(but even so it should panic after 10 tries)
13:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm running on the armhf architecture, so it may well be other issues
13:37
<alkisg>
k
13:37
<vagrantc>
ipconfig segfaults, for example...
13:38
and reboot
13:39
and apparently nfsmount...
13:39
alkisg: it's not udhcpc at all..
13:40
apparently udhcp worked fine
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13:45
<vagrantc>
oh weird... udhcpc is causing problems now
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14:16
<robehend1>
so has anyone done a large deployment, like 100+ clients?
14:19
<johnny>
lots of people do.. there's even deployments of > 10000
14:21
<robehend1>
Ah. Any idea how they get around the storage bottleneck?
14:21
I get pretty high IO access with 80+ clients
14:21
<vmlintu>
robehend1: what kind of applications your users are using?
14:22
<robehend1>
vmlintu: varies by day. gimp is used alot, as well as the KDE for Education suite. I have firefox and flash running as localapps. Oh, and they use Openoffice, but thats also a local app
14:22
<vagrantc>
seems like the static ip address configuration in the udhcp script isn't working
14:24
<vmlintu>
robehend1: do you know which applications are hitting the disks?
14:24
<robehend1>
vmlintu: pretty sure its Gimp, mostly. But it's odd, it's happened when that class isnt happening as well. I havent seen anything that just screams "it's my fault"
14:24
<vmlintu>
robehend1: we were able to reduce the IO load by a lot by changing firefox configuration
14:25
<robehend1>
vmlintu: even if Firefox is running as a local app?
14:25
<vmlintu>
yep
14:25
<robehend1>
hmm, will have to look into that
14:26
<vmlintu>
starting from firefox 3.x it uses sqlite to store data and it keeps writing it a lot
14:26
<robehend1>
ah, that'd explain it. Now if only I could get our student management system to work in Chrome or Iceweasel, I'd be golden
14:27
<evil_root>
firefox 3 writes alot is an understatement
14:27
<robehend1>
hopefully 4 helps out a bit. havent taken a look at the beta yet
14:27
<vmlintu>
if I understood correctly, by default it syncs the database to disk after every change, so it kills whatever system you give it
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15:20
<vagrantc>
hmmm... two issues with the udhcp hooks ...
15:22
for static ip configuration and BOOTIF configuration, it depends on the variables being set in the environment, but newer versions of initramfs-tools don't do this... requires processing /proc/cmdline manually
15:24
also, udhcpc seems to hang indefinitely... making many DHCP requests, but the dhcp server keeps NACKing the requests ...
15:24
the second could just be bugs with the unusual architecture i'm working with...
15:24
but the former i think is a general problem
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19:39
<sbalneav>
Evening all
19:44jammcq has joined #ltsp
19:44
<jammcq>
hello friends
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20:05
<cliebow>
jammcq: i m holed u in some goddam hotel room in Boston..yaking Apple training...yeccch
20:05
<jammcq>
oh?
20:05
cliebow: downtown boston?
20:06
<cliebow>
yeah,,the guy we were gonna send got sick..no way south..dorchester or summat
20:06
half an hour slog up 93
20:07
taking the t tomorrow..tired f feeding the parkingmeter
20:08
school picked the cheapest room they could find..
20:08
within reason
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20:16
<chupacabra>
poor cliebow
20:23
<scottmaccal>
cliebow: hope your room has heat. My didn't at Seawater!
20:23
<cliebow>
thanks..
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<jammcq>
chupacabra: HEY !!!
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20:28
<chupacabra>
yo
20:28
<jammcq>
how's it goin?
20:28
<chupacabra>
good. having fun
20:31
lots of drupal
20:32
<cliebow>
scottmaccal: you been in into apple gsx at all?
20:33
there are more goldarn perturbations of macintosh stuff than you can imagine
20:33
cant tell squat by the looks
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