IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 26 February 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:39
<jacobuserasmus>
Think about this one CAPS-LOCK key is not working on my ltsp-clients.
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01:33
<alkisg>
jacobuserasmus: your keyboard layout is probably wrong... distro/version?
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09:31
<jacobuserasmus>
Was not on here for a while no CAPS-LOCK not working is not a keyboard layout problem. Can change the keyboard layout and still my caps is not working. It works in X, gdm, ldm but not on the console
09:32
<Gadi>
jacobuserasmus: what distro and language?
09:37
<jacobuserasmus>
OK ! Ubuntu 8.04.1 both the ltsp and the distro is upgraded to newest version. The setup is basically a ldm session on vt7 and a terminal (telnet) session on vt6 , vt1 standard console. None of the console sessions CAPS works. The light comes on but the console does not switch to capital letters.
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09:38
<alkisg>
jacobuserasmus: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup in the chroot
09:38
(rebuild image, remove any X/gdm settings etc)
09:40
<Gadi>
jacobuserasmus: first, don't use vt1
09:40
use SCREEN_02 or higher
09:40
<jacobuserasmus>
First thing I did , did not work. I have not yet completelly removed the X session.
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09:41
<jacobuserasmus>
I'm using vt6 and vt7 the vt1 always comes up with the standard ltsp stuff in anycase. Just thought I'd mention that it also has a CAPS lock issue. I've switched of X and switched it back on and the CAPS problem persists.
09:42
<Gadi>
second, please mention what language you are using
09:42
<jacobuserasmus>
(Both with X on and of). US (English)
09:42
Originally configured as US-104-Intl keyboard but because of problem reconfigured to standard US-101 Keyboard. No ded keys.
09:43
<Gadi>
hmm... weird
09:43
works here
09:44
<jacobuserasmus>
Yep also thought it was an interesting problem. Currently using a work around by using X to do the console stuff but the client is sorta unhappy. I'll do a clean kvm install and test. If it works I might need to do a reinstall of the server (Not very interested). The ltsp is brand new though.
09:45
Do you think it could be related to the NBD root must I tryy to use NFS or some other root Filesystem just for comparison ?
09:45
<Gadi>
shouldnt have to do with nbd at all
09:46
<alkisg>
jacobuserasmus: could you upload to pastebin the contents of /etc/default/console-setup, both from your server and the chroot?
09:47
<Gadi>
jacobuserasmus: in lts.conf, try putting: CONSOLE_KEYMAP="us"
09:47
<ogra>
smells rather like a kvm bug with console switching
09:48
<Gadi>
the client is running in kvm or the server?
09:54
<jacobuserasmus>
None. The whole setup is quite involved. Ubuntu Server 8.04.1 that runs the LTSP-server and clients PIII and up. I have a Mandrake instalation on a kvm partition (cloned from the old server). Thet the clients attach to (Yea I know but no OSS licensed software exists). So LTSP does not really touch the KVM at all. In actual fact because of the keyboard problems we have moved back to the old server. So I can load and unload kvm at will
09:56
This was an upgrade from a mandrake ltsp. And I have exactly the same setup on Ubuntu 6.06 no problem.
09:56
Correction I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 not 8.04.1.
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10:14
<warren>
Ryan52: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=486525 figure out if there is a command line option to set this to 1MB without writing to a conf file.
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10:54
<jammcq>
Good morning #ltsp
10:55
<Blinny>
Good mornigg!
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11:31
<_UsUrPeR_>
is anyone familiar with the intel driver quirks?
11:31
specifically quirk_ignore_lvds?
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11:50
<Gadi>
stgraber: ping
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12:24
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: did you need anything more than that e-mail I sent you?
12:28
<CAN-o-SPAM>
warren: gunna send you an e-mail in a bit
12:28
warren: r u voting for ltsp logo contest?
12:31
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: your e-mail says "Get Ready For Voting" not "Vote Now"
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12:31
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: also you create confusion by asking for votes but also saying "and hope for a few more last minute entries!"
12:33
<CAN-o-SPAM>
right ... Get Ready ... not until the end of the contest, i figured it was pretty obvious
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12:33
<CAN-o-SPAM>
e-mail everyone if you feel its beneficial, by all means
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12:55
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: who gets to vote?
12:56
<warren>
Lns: whoever agreed to vote for the party
12:57
<Lns>
party?
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13:00
<stgraber>
Gadi: pong
13:00
<cliebow>
party??
13:00
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Lns: you cant vote you submitted a logo
13:01
and sure we can have a party
13:01
<Lns>
woooo! partay!
13:01
<cliebow>
your place or mine
13:01
ohh we already did my place
13:01
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: I can't even vote for a different logo than my own? =(
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13:01
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Lns: sorry.
13:02
<Lns>
booo
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13:12
<cliebow>
rjune!!!!!!!!!!!
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13:14
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM, sbalneav doesnt vote o_O ??
13:15
<Gadi>
stgraber: I added my revamped sound volume setting code to trunk
13:16
tested on several different chipsets
13:16
<stgraber>
Gadi: yup, got the mail from Launchpad. Looks good, we'll try it here and see how well it works with our own buggy thin clients :)
13:16
<Gadi>
cool
13:16
just what I was gonna ask
13:16
:)
13:17
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ogra: sbalneav entered a logo
13:17* ogra grins about logo #45
13:18
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ogra: #2
13:18
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM, ah, who participates isnt allowed to vote ? understood then
13:23
<cliebow>
i goota g look
13:23
CAN-o-SPAM, url?
13:28
<ogra>
ok, voted
13:28
<stgraber>
vote, where ?
13:29
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ogra: there may be more logos by end of day tomorrow
13:30
cliebow: http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/contestlogos.html
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13:32
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM: is the vote flexible enough to vote for part of a logo?
13:34
<ogra>
vagrantc, like "i vote for the L" ?
13:34
:)
13:35
<cliebow>
there is ome Great stuff there!
13:36
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM, well, i'll look there tomorrow as well, but if there are not massively better ones my vote stands
13:38
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: you might want to thumbnail those logos.. I'm having issues viewing that page without mucho lag-o
13:38
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ogra: noted
13:38
Lns: Local Apps only ;)
13:39
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: well, if you can't view a disklessworkstations.com page with a disklessworkstations.com thin client.... =p
13:39
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ruh roh
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13:49
<ogra>
Lns, well, its definately a page to trigger OOM with the good old pixmap bug
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13:51
<Lns>
ogra: *nods*
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14:46
<sbalneav>
No, I won't vot
14:46
e
14:46
I submitted a logo, so I'm ineligible
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14:48
<vagrantc>
local ltspfsmounter stuff is wacky.
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14:49
<ogra>
well, it wasnt designed for local use initially
14:50
sbalneav, yeah, i finally grokked that
14:53
<vagrantc>
ogra: yes, i know.
14:57
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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17:32
<stillflame>
so if i have an ltsp server in a computer lab, but i leave all the harddrives in the terminals with windows installed, they would need only switch one cable to revert to using the harddrives. is that the best scenario for having dual boot diskless/windows?
17:32
oh, i could do one of those boot menus, couldn't i?
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17:39
<Lns>
stillflame: that's exactly how i have 5 schools on LTSP
17:39
stillflame: just modify the BIOS to boot to the network FIRST
17:39
they don't need to unplug their hard drives (although it's probably a good idea if they're not going to use them)
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17:49
<stillflame>
Lns: yeah - it's in rural guatemala, so they won't be getting much tech support, so i'm trying to make sure they have an easy method for switching if ever the server breaks or whatnot
17:50
the power savings (and reduced wear) might be worth unplugging the HDs - i'll ask them what they think.
17:51
<Lns>
yup, and most likely faster LTSP boot times (don't haveto probe for the hdd)
17:51
and less noise
17:51
but yeah, it's nice for the skeptics to be able to go back and forth at their leisure
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17:59
<stgraber>
Ryan52: hey, you're good at gtk right ? :)
18:07
<stillflame>
Ryan52: you're good at everything, right?
18:08
(but never around to chat)
18:11
<stgraber>
Ryan52: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ldm.png
18:12
Ryan52: Looks like some work could be done on the login box.
18:13
vertically centering the label and the entrybox and finding a way to make the login box better positioned
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18:29
<Ryan52>
stillflame: :)
18:30
stgraber: is that your theme?
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18:31
<Ryan52>
stgraber: ya, I know that it's wrong. last time I "fixed" that (probably wrong, but anyway) ogra got pissed. I never did figure out what the problem was, tho.
18:32
oh, wait, now that I think about it for 30 seconds I think I know what the problem was.
18:32
hmm.
18:32
at least one potential problem.
18:32
<ogra>
its the whole design thats wrong
18:33
<Ryan52>
ogra: all of gtkgreet? or just what I did?
18:33
<ogra>
it was never designed in a way that more items could be added
18:33
<Ryan52>
unrelated, I think.
18:33
<ogra>
thats what triggered me to make it more flexible which i never wnet on with
18:33
the prob is that there are strict tables with strict numbers of items
18:33
<stgraber>
Ryan52: that's my theme for intrepid, I'm working on the one for Jaunty (well, for my customers using Intrepid as I didn't have the time to upload it for Intrepid)
18:34
<ogra>
i think the problem was introduced with the guest button which adds an additional column
18:34
<Ryan52>
ah.
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18:34
<stgraber>
hmm, let me try with the guest login button on
18:34
<ogra>
that messed up everything of my bad design
18:34
<Ryan52>
:)
18:35
<ogra>
which only worked through duct tape holding it together
18:35
<stgraber>
ogra: btw, I'm working with Kenneth on getting a real background for Jaunty :)
18:35
<ogra>
my new attempt did put everything in its own freely placeable window
18:35
<Ryan52>
ogra: so, how do we fix it? I saw that you had that new one in progress, is the code somewhere? can I help?
18:35
<ogra>
so no item can influence the other
18:36* Ryan52 nods
18:36
<Ryan52>
everytime I touch anything in gtkgreet I feel like I'm making a bigger mess...
18:36
<Lns>
since we're on the ldm subject, can I suggest if we modify it to be more flexible, keep in mind that some users (ahem) would love the flexibility to add/remove/modify "Options" items? :)
18:36
<ogra>
Ryan52, i'm way to tired to put that up now, i'll try to collect the bits and pieces on the weekend and write up the conceptual idea
18:37
essentially the idea is to render all objects off screen
18:37
<stgraber>
Lns: that part is actually extremely easy to implement but quite far on my list. Patches are welcome though, ldmgtkgreet code is quite easy.
18:37
<Ryan52>
ogra, and then are you gonna finish it or have me?
18:37
<ogra>
then have a subfuntion for each element in the main() function
18:37
so you can add variables to switch on/off elements and place them where you like
18:38
i would love to finish it, but i fear that will take another 6 months
18:38
so if anyone can finish it faster i wont complain
18:38
<stgraber>
Although I love the ideas behind the new greeter, I'm not going to have it for Jaunty and would love the greeter to look a bit better than it currently does :)
18:38
<ogra>
i worked out the essential bits like the offscreen renderer, so its only a matter of porting the old stuff to the new system and working out the placement
18:39
<Ryan52>
ok. I'd love to help finish it. cause I've made a *really* big mess out of the current code. :P
18:39
<ogra>
i didnt work that out properly yet since i wasnt sure what was clevever, computing the perscentage ot pixels from top left or rather from mid screen etc
18:40
*of pixels
18:40
<Ryan52>
why not both? :)
18:40
<stgraber>
hmm, the guest login is even more broken than the rest of the greeter :)
18:40
<ogra>
well, thats not your fault, i didnt design it in an easily extendable way
18:40
well, both if you like ... that code isnt there yet :)
18:40
<Ryan52>
hmm. how does that work, tho? becuase what if that makes them end up overlapping?
18:41
<ogra>
i think i did top left in pixels ...
18:41
for the testing code
18:41
you know the size
18:42
the offscreen rendering stuff actually maps the frames of elements outside of the visible space so you can ask gdk for their sizes
18:42
<Ryan52>
ok.
18:42
<ogra>
since they were mapped once already they claim space
18:42
then i move them to ther actual position
18:43
<Ryan52>
and be smart and magic enough to not make them overlap no matter what the demensions of the window are?
18:43
<ogra>
not yet
18:43
you have their sizes
18:43
so you can make that work
18:43
i didnt yet
18:43
<Ryan52>
ya.
18:44
ok.
18:44
<ogra>
i'll have to look up the code really
18:44
i only remember it vaguely
18:44
but atm i'm trying to get out an alpha release
18:44
and its 2am here ....
18:44
<Ryan52>
o noez.
18:44
<ogra>
and i had wine ...
18:44
<Ryan52>
good luck.
18:45
<ogra>
well, only paparwork left
18:45
*paper
18:45
we have alphas every two weeks ... but this time i do a first release of a new arch so i need to actually do some stuff
18:45
usually its all automated and i only need to test
18:47
<stgraber>
Ryan52: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ldm1.png
18:47
Ryan52: that's some kind of mix from my previous screenshot and one with the guest login button
18:47
<Ryan52>
stgraber: there is no way to easily center that.
18:48
<stgraber>
Ryan52: so basically everything is at the exact same place and the guest login button is added horizontally centered under the box
18:48
<Ryan52>
ya
18:48
stgraber: if you use the gtk ways, then when the label next to the box changes to password it moves. so it's awkward.
18:49
and that's a bigger bug than it not being centered, I think.
18:49
<stgraber>
right, and what about vertical centering of the label with the input box ?
18:49
<Ryan52>
ohhhhh.
18:49
I misunderstood.
18:49
<ogra>
you should really fix your monitor ... there is a gree cross :P
18:49
*green
18:50
<Ryan52>
lol
18:51* ogra really loved his first ldm
18:51
<ogra>
that used gnomecanvas
18:51
<Ryan52>
oooo.
18:51
<ogra>
everything was freely placeable
18:51
no vboxes or hboxes
18:51
no restrictions
18:51
but it took 30 secs to come up :P
18:51
<stgraber>
:)
18:51
<Ryan52>
heh
18:52
<ogra>
which might not even have been gnomecanvas' fault, it was pygtk
18:52
the C version was redone from scratch with minimalism in mind to make it as fast as possible
18:53
thats why for example the lang and session windows are separate so they arent loaded if the main greeter is up
18:54
<Ryan52>
did somebody highlight me in this channel this morning?
18:55
I remember that just before I /away-ed somebody said something to me, and I ignored it because I had to leave, and now I forgot :/
18:55
oh, warren, I see.
18:55
<ogra>
warren popped in shortly stating your name
18:56
pointing to a pulse bug in fedora iirc
18:58
<Ryan52>
stgraber: haven't looked at the code, but if you stick it in a GtkAlignment to vertically center it does it help?
18:59
<ogra>
no
18:59* ogra tried all methods he knows ... alignment was the first
19:00
<Ryan52>
well at least I know I'm not crazy :)
19:00
<ogra>
the olny proper fix is that elements arent hidden but actually not there
19:00
currently they are simply not shown, but still occupy space
19:01
<Ryan52>
which are we talking about?
19:01
<ogra>
guest
19:01* Ryan52 thinks that's doesn't affect it.
19:01
<ogra>
the guest button is coming up in hidden state
19:01
<Ryan52>
if you open two tabs with ldm.png and ldm1.png
19:01
and go back and forth.
19:01
<ogra>
you dont see it but it adds another column
19:01
<Ryan52>
nevermind.
19:02
<ogra>
its the whole design of the vbox/hbox table in the center thats wrong
19:02
<Ryan52>
it doesn't occupy space, iirc It doesn't get added to the vbox if LDM_GUEST isn't true.
19:02
<ogra>
it works if you rip out everythng thats not login box related
19:02
<Ryan52>
o
19:02
<ogra>
but thats no solution
19:10
<stgraber>
ogra: how can the guest login button that's hidden under the login box affect the vertical alignment of the label and the input box ?
19:10
<vagrantc>
i guess i mostly see it with the Guest Login button, so i don't really notice the problem
19:10
<Ryan52>
stgraber: I still don't get it either.
19:11
stgraber: it's not just hidden, it's not even in the box (iirc).
19:12
<ogra>
i might misremember but there is one item that adds an additional column
19:12
i thought i rememebred it to be the guest button
19:14
anyway, i need to crash
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19:14
<Ryan52>
ogra, good night.
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19:27
<stgraber>
http://www.stgraber.org/download/bruno-jaunty3.png looks quite good for Jaunty and meets most of the art team criterias though it's a bit too dark at the bottom (rendering is with 16bit)
19:29* Ryan52 was wondering where the preferences button went, and then noticed it hiding there :P
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20:04
<stgraber>
I should have a call for backgrounds out sometime next week with well defined criterias for desktop integration and do work with ldm's restrictions
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22:57
<erikcw>
I'm trying to figure out how "thick" my thin clients are going to need to be. I just need to run firefox with flash (the flash app is a flex based business business app).
22:58
The flash app is the front end for the CRM. The thin clients will be in a call center if that helps
23:00
<johnny>
hmm.. i'd go with 512mb ram
23:01
that's the most important thing
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23:14
<erikcw>
johnny: 512mb on the client?
23:14
I thought the processing was done on the server?
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23:16
<johnny>
oh sorry
23:16
erikcw, sorry.. the word thick popped in my head
23:16
erikcw, flash is quite terrible imo
23:17
over the network
23:17
so.. to get the best performance for such a thing, you would want to run firefox locally
23:17
and flash
23:18
<erikcw>
and a 512mb box will do the trick?
23:18
(the flash is just a buisiness app, no video, audio etc. Just buttons and form fields)
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23:26
<johnny>
erikcw, it might be fine then
23:26
128mb is probably the base
23:27
<alkisg>
erikcw: You could try running your business app from a normal (=non-ltsp) client using ssh -X server (or ssh -Y server) to see if the performance is acceptable. If not, you'll need to run it locally.
23:27
...and if it needs to run locally, you'll need more RAM like johnny said.
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23:31
<erikcw>
alkisg: good tip! So running LTSP in vmware and using my macbook as the client would be an accurate test?
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