IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 May 2014   (all times are UTC)

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03:47
<bennabiy>
alkisg: Seems that a stock ltsp install works fine, but it looks like it does not quite get the dhcp stuff right. It adds the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf but does not update the /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server to reflect the location of the /etc/ltsp file, either by setting the variable, or by actually changing the file.
03:47
And it seems tftp needs a little work to get it working as well.
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07:00
<alkisg>
bennabiy: ubuntu is using the old defaults there, with tftpd and isc-dhcp instead of dnsmasq, and I don't think those defaults receive much testing anymore... file a bug, maybe stgraber will consider installing only dnsmasq by default
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08:30
<ogra_>
bennabiy, wow, thats a gross bug ... according to the dhcpd changelog it should still be there
08:30
bennabiy, please file it
08:31
oh, wait, you said /etc/init.d ... thats obsolete
08:31
<alkisg>
Maybe he meant /etc/default/
08:31
<ogra_>
sysvinit scripts are dead and done for most services
08:31
<alkisg>
Or, /etc/dhcpd/*
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08:32
<ogra_>
it is fine in the upstart job as it should be
08:32
<alkisg>
I don't think there are configuration options in sysvinit scripts
08:32
There should be some #include directive inside the stock dhcpd.conf
08:32
<ogra_>
iot originially was a patch to the sysvinit script
08:32
and moved to the upstart job when sysvinit support was dropped
08:33
ogra@anubis:~/Devel/packages/isc-dhcp-4.2.4$ grep ltsp debian/isc-dhcp-server.isc-dhcp-server.upstart
08:33
if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
08:33
CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
08:33
if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
08:33
CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
08:33
all fine
08:34
<alkisg>
./debian/isc-dhcp-server.isc-dhcp-server6.upstart: if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd6.conf ]; then
08:34
So yeah it's in upstart...
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08:36
<alkisg>
Someone using isc-dhcp should try to drop all that though, and implement it as `ltsp-config isc-dhcp-server`
08:38
<ogra_>
i think it is pointless ... debian is about to make the switch to systemd soon
08:38
and ubuntu will probably in 2-3 months
08:39
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/05/msg00001.html
08:39
there was just a sprint to finish the worst bits
08:39
<alkisg>
ltsp-config would work with any init system, even on gentoo :)
08:40
<ogra_>
without mangling the init script ?
08:40
<alkisg>
Right
08:40
<ogra_>
ah, cool
08:40
all theese modern tools
08:40
<alkisg>
We use ltsp-config to sed through services configuration files
08:40* ogra_ feels old
08:40
<alkisg>
We can do that because it's usually ran by the sysadmin
08:40
Not by a postinst script
08:41
It's nothing new, it just saves us from having to file bugs everywhere about supporting tool.d/ configuration dirs...
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10:11
<ogra_>
alkisg, OOOH !
10:12
alkisg, HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!
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10:45
<alkisg>
ogra_: thanks!!!! :)
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15:43
<Yaann>
Hi !
15:45
I'm looking for a way to properly shutdown a system with a rootfs on nbd
15:45
<bennabiy>
Happy birthday Alkisg :)
15:46
<Yaann>
alkisg seems to be the guy who knows how to do that :)
15:46
I already found the stuff about /run/sendsigs.omit.d/ but the server never receives a proper disconnect
15:47
It seems that I could generate a shutdown initramfs but I don't know to properly do it on ubuntu
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15:50
<vagrantc>
Yaann: what version of Ubuntu?
15:51
there are some patches in the newest versions of LTSP that may fix bugs related to NBD shutdown
15:51
<Yaann>
trusty
15:51
<ogra_>
vagrantc, note thats a generic nbd root ... not ltsp ...
15:52
Yaann, no shutdown initramfs on ubuntu (yet ... we dont use systemd yet)
15:52
(nor do we use dracut anywhere)
15:52
<Yaann>
ogra_: I might look at the source code of ltsp
15:53
<ogra_>
well, vagrantc might be able to point you to something
15:57
<vagrantc>
oh.
15:58
what's a shutdown initramfs?
15:59
there are some ugly hacks for "proper" nbd shutdown, although we never seemed to need them on Debian.
16:00
<Yaann>
A shutdown initramfs is supposed to kill properly the rootfs daemon
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16:01
<championofcyrodi>
is there a way to enable the ltsp login manager to utilize nxclient on the backend dropdown? rather than to replace the images /etc/rc2.d/S25ltsp-client-core ?
16:02
although I have thick clients working. There are concerns about the developer IDE's home folder being network mounted.
16:02
and possible latency with certain plugins.
16:02
like PHPStorm
16:03
<ogra_>
vagrantc, some exotic think dracut and systemd can use as i understood it
16:03
*thing
16:03
<Yaann>
ogra_: vagrantc Yep for instance : https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/boot/dracut/dracut.html#_dracut_on_shutdown
16:04
<ogra_>
right, but there is no dracut in debian or ubuntu
16:04
<Yaann>
Yep, but I guess people putting their rootfs on iSCSI have the same problem, no ?
16:05
<ogra_>
i think they just remount / ro ... and make sure the daemon is the last thing that gets killed
16:06
<Yaann>
In this case the kernel shuts down properly, the problem is that the server is neved notified that the client as gone away
16:06
<ogra_>
probably because your network is gone before
16:07
(so it would just kill whats in ram, but the info never gets through)
16:11
<vagrantc>
well, dracut is in Debian, it's just not the default
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16:13
<vagrantc>
wow, so it loads an initramfs and switches to it as part of the shutdown process?
16:13
<Yaann>
yep
16:14
<vagrantc>
that seems much cleaner than what we're doing with nbd... heh.
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16:20
<Yaann>
vagrantc: ogra_ : I found the hack
16:20
in nbd-disconnect
16:21
<vagrantc>
isn't it evil? :)
16:21* ogra_ is happy that after he implemented nbd rootfs in ltsp someone else had to sort out all the ugly bits :P
16:22
<vagrantc>
heh
16:24
<ogra_>
hmm, but how would nbvd-disconnect work on a normal system ?
16:25
you will surely have to make sure the network stays up til the end
16:25
<vagrantc>
i don't think the network gets torn down
16:25
<Yaann>
ogra_: It should, I'm going to give it a try
16:26
<vagrantc>
well, got a cubieboard booting to LTSP with debian's 3.14 kernel...
16:26
although, no video output, no usb, so it's of... limited use.
16:27
<ogra_>
well, i see that sysvinit surely calls S35networking and only then S60umountroot
16:27
<vagrantc>
although the excercise is getting me to re-think how to do semi-generic LTSP booting for arm based systems
16:28
<ogra_>
(on shutdown/reboot)
16:29
<vagrantc>
but i don'tthink S35networking takes down things that ifupdown didn't set up.
16:30
or at least, isn't configured to set up
16:32
<ogra_>
ah, right, nbd-root would have set it up earlier anyway
16:36
<vagrantc>
networking gets set up by the initramfs
16:37
which has it's own set up issues
16:37
AoE was pretty cool in that you could boot a thin-client without any ip address
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17:16
<Yaann>
ogra_: vagrantc : it works
17:16
<ogra_>
:)
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19:12
<gbaman>
hey vagrantc, suggestion on a weird bug, some of my LTSP installs seem to have it. It just sits for 30 seconds waiting before it continues booting
19:13
It is before it starts grabbing anything from the server it seems?
19:13
Raspberry Pis
19:13
but only on some of my virtual servers?
19:15
A teacher was trialing my Raspberry Pi system and it can be seen in his video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A09LuvdAotM#t=74
19:30
<vagrantc>
dns issue?
19:30
sounds like a dns timeout or something ...
19:30
<gbaman>
ok
19:31
<vagrantc>
gbaman: where exactly in the process?
19:31
<gbaman>
it is before anything from the server comes over it seems
19:31
so DNS would make sense
19:32
getting screenshot
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19:35
<gbaman_>
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-5.JPG
19:36
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-6.JPG
19:36
the first one is what happens after
19:36
and the second one is what it sits on for 30 seconds
19:36
if it was a DNS issue vagrantc, how would one check?
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19:37
<vagrantc>
meh
19:37
gbaman_: you there?
19:37
<gbaman_>
yeah?
19:37
<vagrantc>
ah, saw gbaman leave, but gbaman_ is still here
19:38
<gbaman_>
had to switch from ethernet so network dropped
19:38
needed ethernet for pi :)
19:38
<vagrantc>
possible negotiation for NBD swap?
19:38
<gbaman_>
it was about though even before NBD swap was enabled
19:38
so I dont think that is it
19:39
<vagrantc>
did you put any hooks in there that make DNS calls?
19:39
<gbaman_>
nope
19:39
<vagrantc>
or, reference things by name rather than ip
19:39
<gbaman_>
nope
19:40
I didnt add anything that makes a network connection into the initrd
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19:42
<vagrantc>
did you figure out how to get your hooks added into the initramfs by dropping them into hook dirs rather than manually constructing the initramfs?
19:42
<gbaman_>
i havent started on that bit yet :)
19:42
<vagrantc>
kind of an aside, but might be related...
19:42
<gbaman_>
is next on my todo list
19:42
ok, will try with an unmodified initrd
19:46
nope, same issue with an unmodified initrd vagrantc
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19:48
<vagrantc>
what version of ltsp?
19:48
<gbaman_>
most recent?
19:48
that server in the video was installed 2 days ago
19:49
<vagrantc>
most recent tells me nothing.
19:49
<gbaman_>
interestingly though there is an update for ltsp-server though
19:49
for my dev server
19:49
<vagrantc>
i have no idea what you think of as recent.
19:49
<gbaman_>
2 days ago
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19:49
<gbaman_>
my dev server was a month ago
19:49
<vagrantc>
try the output from ltsp-info
19:50
<gbaman_>
waiting for it to update
19:50
<vagrantc>
"most recent" is roughly equivalent to "could be just about anything"
19:50
<gbaman_>
server information:
19:50
No LSB modules are available.
19:50
Distributor ID: Debian
19:50
Description: Debian GNU/Linux 7.5 (wheezy)
19:50
Release: 7.5
19:50
Codename: wheezy
19:50
server packages:
19:50
ii ldm-server 2:2.2.11-2
19:50
un ltsp-client <none>
19:50
un ltsp-client-core <none>
19:51
ii ltsp-docs 1.1-1
19:51
<vagrantc>
!pastebin
19:51
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
19:51
<gbaman_>
ii ltsp-server 5.4.2-6
19:51
un ltsp-utils <none>
19:51
ii ltspfs 1.1-2
19:51
packages in chroot: /opt/ltsp/armhf
19:51
ii ldm 2:2.2.11-2
19:51
ii ldm-themes 12.07.1
19:51
ii ltsp-client 5.4.2-6
19:51
ii ltsp-client-core 5.4.2-6
19:51
<vagrantc>
you have just spammed #ltsp :P
19:51
<gbaman_>
ii ltspfsd 1.1-2
19:51
ii ltspfsd-core 1.1-2
19:51
found: /opt/ltsp/armhf/etc/lts.conf
19:51
found: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/armhf/lts.conf
19:51
found image: /opt/ltsp/images/armhf.img
19:51
hmm, that was maybe a little spammy..
19:51
:D
19:51
<vagrantc>
looks like you're already out of date :P
19:51
<gbaman_>
I noticed
19:51
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: use a pastebot next time.
19:51
<gbaman_>
it is updating
19:52
nope, same issue
19:53
that was after an apt-get upgrade
19:53
would any services need restarted?
19:54
or, actually, am rebooting server
19:56
and entire ltsp system has just fallen over..
19:56
great...
19:56
<vagrantc>
not that it will likely change anything, it just pointed out how useless the term "most current" is.
19:57
but also upgrade your chroots
19:57
<gbaman_>
seems a reboot wasnt the best of ideas...
19:57
i dont reboot my linux vms much..
19:58
<vagrantc>
at any rate, look at the scripts in /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ ... that seems to be where it's hanging.
19:58
alternately, it might be some of the early scripts in /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
19:59
<gbaman_>
photo-11.JPG
19:59
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-7.JPG
20:00
I hate reboots...
20:00
<vagrantc>
looks like your nbd server isn't running
20:01
wonder if you have the same issue with NFS...
20:01
<gbaman_>
am assuming thats a "please test" :)
20:01
testing now
20:02
<vagrantc>
sure :)
20:03
<gbaman_>
ok, NFS is booting fine, but has the 30 second pause there too
20:05
<vagrantc>
https://xkcd.com/349/
20:06
<gbaman_>
yip
20:06
:D
20:06
ok, NBD is fixed :)
20:07
restarted nbd-server
20:07
still have 30 second lag
20:07
back to square 1
20:07
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b6da40514cf97a09d474
20:07
thats the ltsp-info
20:08
<vagrantc>
haven't upgraded your chroot yet
20:09
<gbaman_>
for ltsp-client?
20:09
<vagrantc>
oh, maybe raspbian's lagging behind debian
20:09
<gbaman_>
will see, doing it now
20:09
<vagrantc>
it was just a minor fix for sound
20:09
<gbaman_>
when was the update pushed?
20:10
yeah, it is in raspbian
20:10
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: ltsp-client being outdated just indicates that it hasn't been upgraded, and there may be other things that upgrading will hopefully resolve though i doubt it'll fix your problem
20:11
<gbaman_>
i doubt it, seeing as Ben (teacher in the video) is having the same issue
20:11
he installed the full system from scratch 2 evenings a go
20:11
*ago
20:12
<vagrantc>
so... it's always done this?
20:12
or it's a new problem?
20:12
<gbaman_>
for quite a while, yes
20:12
never really bugged me as i wasnt bothered about speed
20:12
but now I am
20:13
as the rest of the stuff is fixed :)
20:13
i had assumed it was fixed, as my other VMs dont seem to have the issue?
20:13
but then I saw ben had it
20:13
so wasnt fixed
20:14
alksig had mentioned he suspected it had something to do with DNS while back, but never got back to the topic
20:17
<vagrantc>
well, look at the initramfs hooks or the init-ltsp.d hooks mentioned earlier
20:17
<gbaman_>
am going to add a pile of echos into the init-bottom
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20:38
<gbaman_>
ok vagrantc it isnt init-bottom
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20:51
<sutula>
General question: I see Ubuntu 14.04 is out. Is that a decent LTSP server plaform? Some (in other channels) have suggested that LTSP will not work with Unity (lack of local graphics support) and that I'd need to select an alternative desktop such as gnome-flashback.
20:52* sutula apologizes to stgraber if he's being asked the same question by achiang
20:53
<sutula>
I have a very old LTSP server (Debian old-stable) that I need to upgrade to something more recent. Just wondering what this community recommends these days for an LTSP server Linux distribution.
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21:00
<mmetzger>
I'm currently hitting some oddball issues w/ 14.04, but likely that's my own environment
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21:21
<sutula>
I see that edubuntu has 14.04 support
21:35* vagrantc still likes debian
21:36
<vagrantc>
but i'm a little biased :)
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22:25
<sutula>
vagrantc: How well does LTSP work on stable these days?
22:25
One issue I have is that Debian stable is so slow to update that I'm always missing drivers for specific hardware.
22:30
<vagrantc>
i've mostly only used outdated hardware
22:31
sometimes you may need to use backports for hardware-specific things, and sometimes it's just dated.
22:31
i think stable releases are a little more permissive with updates than they used to be, but it still requires someone who actually wants hardware X to work to backport it.
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