IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<AzMoo>
sutula: I'm trying to understand how this all works. My X is failing to start on the client so I ctrl+alt+f1 to a terminal and try to log in. It fails login, I'm assuming because the user wasn't created inside of the chroot, but everybody keeps telling me that it should just be using the users on the server.
00:02
<sutula>
AzMoo: Normally, nobody would be logging in on the client, so all the above is true.
00:03
AzMoo: But, as you point out, you need to in order to debug the X failure, so adding a user to the chroot (or just using "passwd root" there) will allow you to log into the client
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00:04
<lns>
(AzMoo, sutula, of course after running ltsp-update-image (if applicable))
00:04
<sutula>
Also, (I think) ssh daemon is not normally installed in the chroot (client's env) so if you want to ssh in, you'd need to install it there
00:04
<AzMoo>
lns: Absolutely, I've got that bit down.
00:05
sutula: I thought that was how the X session was started? ssh -C server etc. ?
00:05* sutula nods to lns ...sutula has an older etch-based installation so still forgets the new stuff
00:05chup has quit IRC
00:05
<sutula>
AzMoo: Ah...that could also be a change from what I have
00:06
AzMoo: In any case, so you can ssh to the client, right? What else do you need?
00:06
<lns>
so AzMoo, you're having a problem logging in on the console (ctl-alt-f1) with root?
00:06
<AzMoo>
OK, so I've got the user bit down now. How about logging? One of my clients is panicking when it boots the image. Is there anywhere that's logged?
00:06
lns: No, I've fixed that now and understand what I was doing wrong.
00:06
<lns>
oh
00:06
<sutula>
dmsg on the client?
00:06
<lns>
AzMoo, the best log is what it says when it panics (I would think)
00:06
<AzMoo>
sutula: Yeah, I can't though because it's panicking before I get a chance to see anything.
00:07
Ubuntu's got its stupid fbsplash.
00:07
<johnny>
you can disable that
00:08
in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
00:08
remove quiet and splash
00:08
<lns>
johnny, is that in etch too?
00:08
<johnny>
uhmm.. no idea
00:08
<AzMoo>
johnny: Awesome, thanks. I was looking for it in /boot/
00:09
<lns>
ah nm, that was sutula that said he used etch =p
00:09* lns is still learning the current debian distro names
00:09
<johnny>
if you look in the pxelinux.cfg/default file.. you can find out
00:09
<AzMoo>
etch for stable, lenny for testing, sid for development
00:10
<johnny>
we need to revamp the ltsp wiki :(
00:10
<sutula>
lns: Don't get me wrong...at this point in Debian's lifecycle, I wish I was on something newer. But I don't have the time to keep debugging stuff when the users are counting on it working :)
00:10
<AzMoo>
Yeah, totally. There's no docs for this and it's really frustrating.
00:10
<lns>
sutula, i agree with you
00:10
i love debian on the server
00:11
just never tried ltsp on it (always used ubuntu)
00:11
<AzMoo>
On an upside, I'm learning an incredible amount about linux :D
00:11
<johnny>
i run all my personal servers on gentoo
00:11
<sutula>
lns: At least vagrantc has done etch-backports
00:11
<lns>
I just installed etch yesterday on a replacement bind/apache2/ssh/ftp/etc server of mine
00:11
<johnny>
but i'd prolly use debian elsewhere
00:11
<|Paradox|>
LTSP could soon become even more desirable a solution for running terminals across the net : http://www.dailytech.com/CERN+Develops+Possible+Internet+Replacement+Unfathomably+Faster/article11394.htm
00:11* sutula likes ubuntu on stand-alone laptops
00:12
<lns>
that link crashed my firefox :( haha...of course what doesn't these days
00:14
<AzMoo>
God, CERN are so awesome.
00:15
|Paradox|: The reason I'm trying to understand all this is to get LTSP working with FreeNX, which judging by their demos, will already allow LTSP over the net.
00:15
<lns>
AzMoo, it's been stated by some of the ltsp devs that freenx isn't really a viable solution to couple with ltsp
00:15
without heavy hacking anyway
00:15* AzMoo is up for heavy hacking.
00:16
<AzMoo>
And there's been lots of instances of people around the net doing it, just nobody's put any directions on how in.
00:17
<lns>
right
00:17
i've used it on a testbed so i'm not sure how well it scales
00:17
i heard it is kind of resource intensive
00:17
at least compared to straight-up ltsp
00:17
<AzMoo>
That's ok, I have some great hardware here.
00:18
And we're only looking at about 20 users at the most, it's just we need it going across a WAN.
00:19
<lns>
ah that's not bad
00:19
<AzMoo>
I did a test with standard LTSP the other day and we were hitting about 45 minutes to boot and get ssh up and going.
00:19
er, not ssh, the entire X session.
00:19
Which is obviously not acceptable.
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00:21
<lns>
what speed link are you using?
00:21
and are you actually pxe booting over a wan? or just contacting an x server?
00:23
<AzMoo>
pxe booting over the WAN. The initial image was OK, that took about 10 minutes, but after that it was opening the applications and some basic clicking around. It was a 512Kbps SDSL connection which was being maxed out the entire time. That can be upgraded though, just not too far.
00:26
<lns>
AzMoo, that's understandable for all that stuff
00:26
i mean the image isn't that big
00:26
well 45min...jeez even for 512Kbps is really odd
00:27
<AzMoo>
Yeah, it took forever. Scrolling around was almost impossible.
00:28
Loading pages in web apps was fine, but as soon as there was any kind of scrolling or window movement it all went to hell.
00:28
So, I figure I need more compression.
00:29
<lns>
AzMoo, you're not using ldm_directx in lts.conf are you?
00:29
ssh really does compress it a lot..still might be real choppy over 512 but still
00:29
<AzMoo>
lns: Nope. My lts.conf is practically empty. It had a user and a password and that's about it.
00:30
Even the window manager was minimal. No toolbars, no menus, just firefox and a couple of other little app windows.
00:31
<lns>
well not that you can compare, but i use ssh tunneling to clients of mine and run VNC sessions through it
00:31
and it's very smooth over 1.5Mbps
00:31
now of course that's vnc, not x11 protocol
00:32
but x11 is still very lightweight afaik
00:32
and compressed with ssh is even smaller
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00:32
<lns>
i remember doing straight X11 session over SSH, over a 56k modem connection
00:33
running KDE
00:33
it was hooooorible...but i mean, it didn't take no 45 minutes
00:33
maybe 10 minutes at the longest to display the background
00:33
lol
00:33
man that was horrible
00:35
<AzMoo>
lns: I've been doing a lot of reading and apparently it's not the X11 protocol that's the problem, but the way apps are ignoring the network functionality of it nowdays./
00:37
<lns>
AzMoo, unfortunately, yes...many apps are not aware of their own roots in x11. :( it sucks when you think that x11 was designed for network use, and now it's hard to find apps that don't crash under a network
00:44
<johnny>
firefox3 is supposed to be better right?
00:45
<AzMoo>
johnny: It's still in beta, but yeah, that's the plan.
00:58
<johnny>
here we go..
00:58
see if i can go from boot to login screen ..
00:58
yay1
01:00* AzMoo applauds!
01:00
<johnny>
i'm learning the internals of ltsp deeply now ..
01:00
reimplementing it is interesting.
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01:02
<johnny>
dberkholz, my newest chroot can go from boot to ldm now
01:03
still need to integrate my newest modifications tho
01:04
now if only some other ldm expert was here now .. :)
01:06
<dberkholz>
johnny: rockin
01:06
johnny: are your changes uploaded?
01:07
<johnny>
no.. i have to integrate them still
01:07
need to test it from a from scratch chroot now
01:07
<dberkholz>
johnny: not sure what you mean by integrate...
01:07
<johnny>
they are local modifications
01:08
ldm requires ubuntulooks in ldm-trunk
01:09
so, i emerged gtk-engines
01:09
and then symlinked clearlooks overtop of the greeter-gtkrc
01:10
that's probably not required
01:12
gtk_rc_add_default_file(ldm_theme_file("/greeter-gtkrc")); seems to be unconditionally done
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01:13
<johnny>
also LDM_THEME wasn't defined, i'm still investigating why
01:13
i had to add it to my lts.conf to get it to work
01:16
ldm doesn't check to make sure there is valid theme before trying to include the images files
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01:45
<AzMoo>
lns: It seems you're right. FreeNX is going to be too hard. I'm going to have to rebuild half of the distro to do it.
01:48
But now it's a challenge. It's just that I'm going to have to do it at home.
01:48
;)
02:16
<johnny>
exit
02:17
oops
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05:21
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: seems that geode 2.8.0-4 is ready to sync. :)
05:29
<ogra_cmpc>
yay
05:29
i et bryce is subscribed to the bug ?
05:29
*bet
05:30
<Q-FUNK>
he is
05:30
<ogra_cmpc>
great :)
05:30
<Q-FUNK>
but I just noticed an oversight in the package description. just uploaded -5 to mentors, now
05:30
<ogra_cmpc>
he already asked if i had objections last week ...
05:30
<Q-FUNK>
still, it's only a cosmetic change in the package description. -4 works just as well
05:31
ah ok
05:31
did you get a chance to test it with your sample?
05:36
here, it works perfectly fine, except if usplash is used. usplash seems to do something nasty to the frame buffer that temporarily distorts the image one initially gets when launching X
05:37
if you switch vcons and back, though, it disappears
05:37chupa has quit IRC
05:37
<ogra_cmpc>
ouch
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05:37
<ogra_cmpc>
thats pretty bad
05:37
there wont be ubuntu systems withjout usplash
05:38
unless yu use server, but then you wont care for X
05:39
<Q-FUNK>
true
05:39
gotta admit that usplash keeps on getting worse with age, though
05:39
<ogra_cmpc>
iirc there is a chvt call in the usplash initscript
05:39
it didnt change since three releases
05:39
the framebuffer handling in the kernel did though
05:40
<Q-FUNK>
well, everything starting with 0.4 has exposed various bugs on varioius hardware, for me
05:40
ever since they started using a config file to define the expected rez, usplash has been a real PITA on most hardware I have
05:44
daduke: tarzeau said that you have some GX/LX ahrdware to try the new driver with?
05:44
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: indeed we do
05:45
<Q-FUNK>
on Etch, was it?
05:45
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: exactly
05:45
<Q-FUNK>
which hardware, again?
05:45
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: it's this one: http://pcengines.ch/alix1c.htm
05:45
<Q-FUNK>
ah yes
05:46
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: have it on my desk right here, what do you want me to do?
05:46
<Q-FUNK>
we make this one here: http://www.thincan.com
05:46
daduke: we're looking for people to test this on as wide a range of hardware as possible
05:47
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: errr isn't the hw given?
05:47
Q-FUNK: or is there some fancy software involved?
05:47
<Q-FUNK>
testing -geode on the alix is welcome, since it's a fairly wide-spread board
05:48
with our board and the OLPC, it's also the only Geode hardware on the market that can boot off coreboot
05:49
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: well I'm always interested in revolutions ;)
05:51
Q-FUNK: but again: what shall I do?
05:52
<Q-FUNK>
as mentioned above, there's some odd bugs which surface on an LX with usplash.
05:52
I'm wondering if you also get these on your hardware.
05:52
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: tell me how and I'm gonna try
05:54
<Q-FUNK>
install usplash with some usplash theme. reconfigure the linux image. install the geode driver. reboot
05:54
do you get bugs in the image when you reboot back into X?
05:55
if you do, try purging usplash, then rebooting. do you still get bugs in the image?
05:55
if you don't, this might indicate that this is a product-specific bug
05:56
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: and who's usplash?
05:57
<Q-FUNK>
whose usplahs theme? any
05:57
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: no. I have no idea what usplash is.
05:57
<Q-FUNK>
I don't think that this is specific to any particular theme
05:57
<ogra_cmpc>
is it even packaged in debian ?
05:57
<Q-FUNK>
ah. usplash is a package that displays a boot splash during bootup
05:57
yes
05:58
<ogra_cmpc>
i doubt it wrks with the debian kernel though
05:58
<Q-FUNK>
there are just fewer themes in debian
05:58
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: all right, now we're getting somewhere ;)
05:58
<Q-FUNK>
it does
05:58
<ogra_cmpc>
it requires qa certain frambuffer setup i doubt debian has
05:58
so testing it there is moot
05:59
<daduke>
Q-FUNK, ogra_cmpc: you guys sort it out and I'll come back when you know, ok?
05:59
<Q-FUNK>
it works on debian too. my development environment is on debian.
05:59
<ogra_cmpc>
daduke, if Q-FUNK says it works i have to belive him, i dont have debian anywhere around
05:59
<Q-FUNK>
the new default debian usplash theme looks quite nice on it, too
06:00
hm.. firefox froze. brbr
06:00Q-FUNK has quit IRC
06:00
<ogra_cmpc>
but i know that debian allows all sorts of framebiuffers we dont in the ubuntu kernel, so the result is very likely not accurate to what you would get with the ubuntu kernel
06:00
(but its surely worth a try)
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06:03
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: ok, I guess we just try.
06:03
<Q-FUNK>
IIRC in Etch, the only usplash theme available was for debian-edu
06:03
<ogra_cmpc>
just an apt-get install usplash in the chroot and ltsp-update-kernels should suffice
06:04
(assuming the deps in etch are right)
06:04
<daduke>
Q-FUNK, ogra_cmpc: I'm not gonna do it on ltsp production, but I have an etch CF here
06:04
<Q-FUNK>
the image too, to get the progression during boot, no?
06:05
<ogra_cmpc>
Q-FUNK, usplash should provide a default theme (or depend on one)
06:09
<Q-FUNK>
IIRC that was an issue in Etch
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06:09
<Q-FUNK>
themes came during the freeze
06:10
<ogra_cmpc>
ah
06:15
<Q-FUNK>
IIRC only the one for skolelinux/debian-edu was ready on time
06:26
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: it's installing and initramfs'ing now
06:28vagrantc has joined #ltsp
06:29
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: I rebooted and everything looks like before.
06:29
<Q-FUNK>
no boot splash?
06:29
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: nope.
06:29
<Q-FUNK>
hm
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06:29
<Q-FUNK>
ah, wait. etch. I'm on Lenny at home.
06:29
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: initrd is fresh tho
06:29
<Q-FUNK>
that might explain it
06:30* daduke waves to vagrantc
06:30
<Q-FUNK>
yes, initramfs is rebuilt when you install or remove usplash or a uspplash theme
06:30* vagrantc waves
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06:31
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: so? what more do I need to do?
06:31
<Q-FUNK>
hmm
06:31
I haven't touched Etch in ages
06:32
is vesafb loaded?
06:32
or some other frame buffer?
06:33
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: no, I'm gonna try to boot with vga=791 now
06:35
Q-FUNK: I'm in fb mode now, but still no module loaded and no change from usplash
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06:36
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: vesafb seems to be in the kernel. fb0: VESA VGA frame buffer device
06:38
vagrantc, ogra_cmpc: with the ltsp live cd up and running, I'm ready for the next task: dpms screen power safe in ldm. DPMS in xorg.conf is not enough on our hw (as is the case for a lot of other systems too: http://www.shallowsky.com/linux/x-screen-blanking.html). I now plan to integrate vbetool to shut down the screen. any thoughts on this?
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06:39
<vagrantc>
daduke: i have no idea how to do it, but good luck :)
06:40
<jonkke>
Hi
06:40
<muh2000>
swesome kicking asses, my geode works :) x is running, music is playing :D
06:40
<vagrantc>
daduke: it shouldn't be much different from a "normal" machine.
06:41
<muh2000>
all i hjave to do is wait a few hours till x comes up ^^
06:41
hmmbut damn sound is only mono asnd left channel
06:42
<daduke>
vagrantc: thing is, with the 'old' ldm (before the last update), I could xhost +localhost and start xscreensaver which allowed me to use some hooks to control vbetool. however, the latest ldm seems to prevent this... X connection refused.
06:42
muh2000: congrats!
06:43
<vagrantc>
daduke: that is because the old LDM allowed anybody and everybody to connect to it :)
06:43
<jonkke>
is there any way of displaying thin client name (ws001)? I found this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-January/000601.html , but when i type "echo $DISPLAY" it displays client ip address.
06:43
<vagrantc>
daduke: probably didn't even need xhost
06:44
<daduke>
vagrantc: not that old. the one in between.
06:44
<muh2000>
ah right chanel works, plug wasnt plugged right.
06:44
<vagrantc>
daduke: using LDM_DIRECTX ?
06:44
<muh2000>
daduke: thnx :) ( all i did was letting the system load over night :D )
06:44
<daduke>
vagrantc: yep
06:45
<vagrantc>
daduke: well, without knowing which versions you're talking about, the "one in between" still disabled all security measures for LDM_DIRECTX.
06:46
<daduke>
jonkke: echo $HOSTNAME
06:46
<vagrantc>
daduke: can you log in at all?
06:47
<jonkke>
daduke: it prints servers hostname
06:48
<daduke>
vagrantc: everything is working fine, I just cannot get xscreensaver (running as root, since it's ldm and nobodys has logged in) to connect to :7.
06:48
johnny: not if you do it locally on the thin client
06:49
<vagrantc>
daduke: you might be able to use the cookie generation code to generate an xauth cookie for localhost ...
06:49
<jonkke>
daduke: I have screen03 as shell and there "echo $HOSTNAME" prints client hostname, but if i'm on Gnome, it displays server hostname. i have ubuntu and ltsp4.2
06:49
<vagrantc>
daduke: look in the ldm screen.d script, and the ldm rc.d script
06:50
<jonkke>
daduke: i'm trying to create something to make one printer A default to one classroom and printer B default to another
06:51
<muh2000>
is this: "VOLUME = 84" still a valid value for lts.conf ?
06:51
(ltsp5)
06:51
<daduke>
vagrantc: I think that would be something like http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/faq.html#root-solution, right? I tried, but I still get connection refused.
06:52
<jonkke>
daduke: if you have some better ways to do that than script in /etc/profile, i would be happy to hear. and sorry for my bad english :)
06:52
<daduke>
jonkke: sorry, I have no idea about 4.2
06:53
<jonkke>
daduke: ok. i have this system daily in use, so i have no time to upgrade to ltsp5. i will do that when kids go to summer vacation. and maybe i leave this problem wait for ltsp5 too.
06:54
<vagrantc>
daduke: sorry, i'm still in transit and need to look at other things at the moment...
06:54
<daduke>
jonkke: can't you just set each user's $PRINTER to whatever you need?
06:55
vagrantc: no prob. I was just wondering if nobody has ever thought about turning of screens in ldm - it saves so much power
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06:56
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: I haven't forgotten about you, but what can I do?
06:56
<muh2000>
hmmm geode does not seem to be able to playback simple avi files :/ but at least music is working :)
06:56
<vagrantc>
daduke: yeah, i'd like to hear about your sucesses with it, and we can hopefully make it an lts.conf option.
06:57
<daduke>
vagrantc: fair enough ;)
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06:57
<jonkke>
daduke: it must be per ws, because users can login from anywhere at school.
06:57
<daduke>
vagrantc: OTOH, it might be easiest to just integrate it into ldm.
06:58
<vagrantc>
daduke: once you know how to do it, we'll figure out how best to integrate it :)
06:59
<daduke>
vagrantc: well then system('vbetool dpms off') in ldm.c
06:59
<vagrantc>
daduke: why not from the screen script?
06:59
oh, right ... ldm doesn't start the X server
06:59
er, ldm starts the X server
07:01
<daduke>
vagrantc: we need to have something that monitors kb and mouse. if we do it outside of ldm, we need xscreensaver. we could create a screensaver program that executes vbetool, but then we need some 'screensaver exit' hook to turn on the screen again. I think I found that already. but still, the permission problem.
07:01
vagrantc: it might just be easier to look for kb and mouse events in ldm directly
07:08
<Q-FUNK>
daduke: I'm wondering. Etch is so far back in mind that I can barely remember what was it that
07:09
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: come on, it's still what they call stable ;)
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07:10
<jammcq>
g'morning folks
07:13* vagrantc notes that some people are unstable
07:15
<Q-FUNK>
daduke: it's what i call "so obsolete that william shatner might have particiipated in the release" :)
07:16
<laga>
star trek TOS is not obsolete
07:16
<tarzeau>
FLASH GORDON > star trek
07:16deavi1 has quit IRC
07:16
<laga>
tarzeau: yeah, but only because queen made the sound track for the latest movie
07:18
<Q-FUNK>
flash! flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash!
07:18
<daduke>
it's interesting how many ppl get active as soon as a flamewar starts...
07:18plamengr has joined #ltsp
07:19
<Q-FUNK>
and wasn't it Toto?
07:19
<laga>
Q-FUNK: queen.
07:19
seriously!
07:20* Q-FUNK is going all radio gaga again
07:20
<laga>
and while we're at it, flash just killed my browser.
07:20
Q-FUNK: the original flash gordon series from the 1930ies are nice, too
07:21
<Q-FUNK>
I have a feeling that we're not in kansas anymore
07:21Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
07:21* cliebow cliebow notes that jammcq is Not unstable 8~)
07:22
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: got it. I installed debian-edu-artwork-usplash and now I get gfx at least when powering down.
07:23
<Q-FUNK>
was it dario that had a blog called "debian gnu/human unstable" ?
07:25
<tarzeau>
daduke: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive/Howto/Custom_Artwork says: "Usplash is a pain."
07:25
da steht noch: LH_BOOTAPPEND_LIVE="quiet splash vga=792"
07:26
<Q-FUNK>
evet
07:26
<tarzeau>
isn't splashy better than usplash?
07:26
<vagrantc>
and has had RC bugs for ages
07:26
<tarzeau>
splashes are why i quit windows
07:26
i wanted to see what happens
07:27
splashy as well as usplash have 6 important bugs in debian bts (sid)
07:28
usplash has a bigger version number than splashy
07:28
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: all right, tarzeau's hints did it. now it's working. what do you want to have tested now?
07:28
<laga>
tarzeau: you can easily disable usplash on ubuntu
07:28
<tarzeau>
laga: i know, i prefer debian
07:29
<Q-FUNK>
daduke, whether you get odd distortion in the image, when X initially launches
07:29
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: please stand by
07:34elisboa has quit IRC
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07:37
<Q-FUNK>
here, when I boot and let GDM start, X initially has some trashy pixels in the image.
07:37
howeve,r if I boot without usplash, e.g. by selecting the maintenanc eimage in grub, i don't get those trashy pixels
07:38
<vagrantc>
would anyone want to kill me if i renamed /lib/udev/add_fstab_entry and remove_fstab_entry to something more like *_ltspfs_entry ?
07:39
we cna include symlinks for backwards compatibility
07:41
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: does this answer you questions? https://www.phys.ethz.ch/~daduke/usplash.avi
07:41slidesinger has joined #ltsp
07:42
<Q-FUNK>
ssl certificate problem trying to download this
07:43
and error 403 if I bypass the ssl certificate warning
07:44
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: sorry, perm probs. retry now
07:48jonkke has quit IRC
07:48
<gvy>
hi folks
07:54Q-FUNK has quit IRC
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08:01
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: silence == satisfaction ?
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08:06
<Q-FUNK>
that avi killed totem and froze the desktop to death too
08:07
pretty scary stuff
08:07
I could move my mouse, but the keyboard became unresponsive
08:07
I could not even change to a vcons
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08:14
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: I'm sorry. it's whatever my pentax produces. mplayer plays it fine. don't sue me now.
08:16
<Q-FUNK>
:)
08:16
anyhow. what was I supposed to see? :)
08:23
<daduke>
Q-FUNK: the system booting, progress bar and all, and X coming up. I don't see an obvious problem
08:23
<muh2000>
lol i am waiting now 1:20 hours/minuts for x to come up :D
08:23sep has quit IRC
08:24
<Q-FUNK>
daduke: ok, good to know
08:24
<daduke>
muh2000: on an alix? it's more like 40 sec here
08:25
<muh2000>
daduke: yes :) alix3c3. i dont know why it takes that long. i found out when i started the box yesterday and switched the monitor on again 10 hours later - there was the ltsp login smiling at me :D
08:26
<daduke>
muh2000: and what does it do in the meantime?
08:26
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: which OS was it again?
08:26
<muh2000>
daduke: showing a black screen :)
08:26
Q-FUNK: server: debian lenny; chroot/ltsp: debian sid
08:26
kernel 2.6.22.something
08:26* vagrantc is so happy to see a recent ldm hit lenny
08:27
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: you saw the ldm upload to experimental?
08:28
<ogra_cmpc>
i saw there was one, yes
08:28
sorry, extremly busy today ...
08:28
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: no problem.
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09:33
<warren>
ogra_cmpc: how does sshd do consolekit on ubuntu?
09:33
vagrantc: is sshd doing CK on debian now?
09:34
ogra_cmpc: how do I install the absolute latest ubuntu so I can take a look for myself?
09:35
<cliebow>
warren:ogra is tied up today..
09:35
<warren>
does anyone else know how to install the latest ubuntu?
09:35
(the unreleased one)
09:37
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, with the patch to sshd i showed you ages ago ...
09:37
<warren>
oh shit
09:37
ogra_cmpc: yeah, we aren't allowed to use that unfortunately.
09:37
<ogra_cmpc>
yep, i know
09:38
but the ssh maintainer in ubuntu and debian is the same ... i'm pretty sure he merged the patch to debian as well, to save doubled work
09:39Gadi has joined #ltsp
09:39
<ogra_cmpc>
but i'd appreciate a fallback functionallity i.e. if i connect to non debian/ubuntu servers
09:40
but the solution shouold be done client side ... the rc.d scripts can easily operate through the ssh socket to run anything you want or get any info you want from the server
09:45mccann has joined #ltsp
09:47
<gvy>
vagrantc, warren, q: is it really neccessary to do #!/bin/sh -e in update-kernels? (simple command bails out the whole script with -e)
09:47
and that doesn't help with that many tests
09:47
<vagrantc>
gvy: if you handle errors properly, no.
09:47
<gvy>
the result might be e.g. staying with no initrd
09:47
vagrantc, *if* :)
09:48
<vagrantc>
gvy: but currently, i think it is better with -e
09:48
<warren>
gvy: yeah, I don't like it either.
09:48
<gvy>
okay, thanks
09:48
<warren>
gvy: I haven't touched update-kernels yet, I intend on soon
09:48
<gvy>
warren, tnx :)
09:49
<vagrantc>
i've been meaning to re-write *update-kernels for over a year now, but it's worked "good enough" for me that i've focused on other things.
09:52chup has quit IRC
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10:48* vagrantc heads for the train...
10:48vagrantc has quit IRC
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11:00
<ogra_cmpc>
gah, to late for hardy .... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-April/003873.html
11:00praveer_cool has quit IRC
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11:11
<Gadi>
ogra_cmpc: you deeal with livecds a lot - do you know a bootparam to add a delay before mounting the rootfs (to let the drivers settle)?
11:12* Gadi is not sure rootdelay is implemented in casper
11:12
<ogra_cmpc>
there is a timeout value
11:12
might be rootdelay, yes
11:13
<Gadi>
${LIVEMEDIA_TIMEOUT}
11:13
maybe thats it
11:14
<ogra_cmpc>
it compares with some $timeout value and then delays ...
11:15
ah, $timeout is the sequence number from mountroot
11:15
<Gadi>
right
11:15
I see that
11:16
I guess LIVEMEDIA_TIMEOUT has to be set in casper.conf
11:16
<ogra_cmpc>
${LIVEMEDIA_TIMEOUT} seems to be right then
11:16
<Gadi>
wish it could be a kernel arg
11:16
<ogra_cmpc>
you can just use it as kernel bootoption
11:16
<Gadi>
ah, really?
11:16
<ogra_cmpc>
the kernel usually passes env values through
11:16
<Gadi>
ah, okey dokey
11:16
will give it a whirl
11:16
thx
11:16
<ogra_cmpc>
try it, not sure it still does
11:18viking-ice_ has quit IRC
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11:18
<ogra_cmpc>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/212802
11:18
mumble mumble ...
11:19K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
11:19
<ogra_cmpc>
why oh why is g-p-m so silly ...
11:20
<muh2000>
the mouse thing?
11:20
ahhh after 4 hours and 20 minutes: there is a login screen :)
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11:23
<ogra_cmpc>
muh2000, gnome-power-manager (gpm has no dawshes ;) )
11:23
*dashes
11:24
i was referring to the bug report above
11:26mccann has quit IRC
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11:38
<johnny>
ogra_cmpc, hey :)
11:42
i have an ldm login screen, but it never logs in
11:42
just spits me back
11:43
<cliebow>
got a homedir?
11:43
<johnny>
yes
11:43
<cliebow>
or ltsp-update-sshkeys
11:43
<ogra_cmpc>
check .xsession-errors
11:43
<johnny>
it's cannot open display
11:44
<ogra_cmpc>
cliebow, since gutsy ldm shows an error if the keys are out of sync
11:44
<johnny>
in .xsession-errors
11:44
<cliebow>
ahhh..thank you
11:44
<johnny>
ogra_cmpc, !
11:44
<ogra_cmpc>
(instead of quietly dropping you back)
11:44
<johnny>
welcome!
11:51
ogra_cmpc, so.. any word on "Cannot open display"
11:52
<cliebow>
.xsession-errors tell you anything?
11:52
<johnny>
that's what it told me :)
11:52
<cliebow>
heh
11:53
;-]
11:53
<ogra_cmpc>
johnny, not atm, sorry, busy with release stuff
11:53
<johnny>
yeah i figured
11:53
good luck with that buddy :)
12:01
<Gadi>
johnny: using DIRECTX?
12:03
<johnny>
no
12:03even has joined #ltsp
12:05
<Gadi>
have you added any scripts to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ on the server?
12:05mccann has quit IRC
12:05
<johnny>
for example?
12:08
<Gadi>
ill take that as a no
12:08
:)
12:08
best bet is to log into the thin client's console (tty1) and take a look at the ldm.log
12:09deavid has quit IRC
12:09
<johnny>
ls /etc/X11/Sessions/
12:09
Gnome Xsession
12:09
is that what you mean?
12:09
<Gadi>
no no
12:09
I mean the Xsession.d dir
12:09
<johnny>
i dont' have one
12:09
this ian't ubuntu/debian
12:09
<Gadi>
what distro?
12:09
<johnny>
gentoo
12:09
<Gadi>
ah
12:10
check that your ssh server allows X forwarding
12:11
as a test, you can run "ssh -X user@server xterm" from another computer
12:11
you may need to run an "xhost +" before that
12:11
to allow xterm access to your display
12:13mccann has joined #ltsp
12:13
<johnny>
i win!
12:13muh2000 has joined #ltsp
12:13
<johnny>
ltsp is boot
12:13
<cliebow>
and you did??
12:13
<johnny>
it was the ssh forwarding
12:13
from boot to login == success
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12:16
<stest1>
hi :)
12:16
<Gadi>
see what happens when you build from source :P
12:16stest1 has quit IRC
12:16
<even>
anyone uses rdesktop to use windows applications?!
12:17
<johnny>
even, i assume so :)
12:17
but not me
12:17
<Gadi>
plenty of people
12:17
<johnny>
no windows around here
12:17
Gadi, what do you mean
12:17
that stest1 was me :)
12:17
i just wanted to test xchat
12:17
<Gadi>
johnny: about what?
12:17
<johnny>
something about building from src
12:18
<Gadi>
ah, ssh's defaults when built from source are to be the tightest security - aka no X forwarding
12:18
:)
12:18
<johnny>
yes.. gentoo adheres to upstream in most cases
12:19
ok.. so now i just have to fix some things
12:19
<even>
i'm trying use ltsp to replace one of the 6 windows server. but we need open some windows apps with rdesktop. anyone uses that!?
12:19
<johnny>
even, you're doing it in a way that won't break any licenses right?
12:20
<even>
johnny: no, we have all licences. we are a education instution
12:20
<Gadi>
even: are you having trouble?
12:20
whats the question?
12:21
<even>
Gadi: yes, when i close the app, the rdesktop windows keeps open a grey window. that is sucks for a newbie user
12:21
<Gadi>
there's a flag for that
12:21
there is also seemless windows
12:22
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, warren, brought up 23 clients yesterday -- 23 kde3s, 23 firefoxen and 1 oowriter would eat up 1200M RAM on the server
12:22
and just cooked an iso which would boot on 16m out-of-box :) (5.1.2-based, already a microfork again)
12:22
mean "which would boot 16m-clients"
12:23
<ogra_cmpc>
nice, but distro specific i guess
12:23
(you wont boot a default ubuntu or debian kernel in 16M)
12:23
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, well i've told you the better half of the hints before mentioning compcache :)
12:23
i can put up an image if anyone cares (2G dvd iso)
12:24
<ogra_cmpc>
right, compcache is on my list to diuscuss with our kernel team in inrepid (8.10)
12:24
<johnny>
ogra_cmpc, i'm booted up :)
12:24
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, btw it's automagically turned off in this case, too scarce memory
12:24
<ogra_cmpc>
but that wont help the fact that the kernel alone needs 36M to uncompress
12:24
<gvy>
and turned on when makes sense (e.g. i'm typing this on a 64m system)
12:24
<ogra_cmpc>
or 32 ... i didnt measure for some time
12:25
<laga>
ogra_cmpc: yay! great upload, thanks
12:25
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, how did they manage to build such a thoroughly broken kernel in the first place? :)
12:25
<ogra_cmpc>
and i fear none of the distros apart from gentoo probably will have such a kernel
12:25
laga, thanks for all the patches :)
12:26* gvy . o O ( altlinux != gentoo :)
12:26
<johnny>
patches ?
12:26
<ogra_cmpc>
gvy, ubuntu kernels try to cover as much HW as they can ... we pay for that
12:26
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, but... initramfs?..
12:26
<ogra_cmpc>
i'm planning for a lowram kernel setup for next release (even though not with focus on ltsp it will help here too)
12:26indradg has joined #ltsp
12:26
<ogra_cmpc>
gvy, initramfs ??? what about it
12:27
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, well one can take modules along with the kernel
12:27
and stick only minor part of those in initrd/initramfs still
12:27
<ogra_cmpc>
sure, but no autodetection etc
12:27
<gvy>
and then mount the rest over nfs. :)
12:27
<ogra_cmpc>
i'm not willing to go back to ltsp 4.x and maintain a monolithic unupdateable blob
12:27
<gvy>
or probably nbd, didn't yet get there
12:28
ogra_cmpc, well we don't maintain mono blobck :)
12:28
<ogra_cmpc>
the focus of ltsp5 is that the distros care for the packages
12:28
<gvy>
well i saw you were busy, so probably son't take up time
12:28
<ogra_cmpc>
i.e. kernel updates and security fixes have to come from the sdistro
12:28
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, *yeah*, and thanks for that :-)
12:29
i think we better will gather time for next merge-up so to speak :)
12:29
i was presented with somewhat more tight timeframe wish on a school project
12:29
<ogra_cmpc>
that means the debian, ubuntu and fedora kernel teams would have to agree to support a lowram kernel package we can use
12:29
<gvy>
say twice as short as i thought..
12:29
<dberkholz>
ogra_cmpc: ubuntu doesn't do module hotplugging only for available hw? that´s interesting
12:29
well, coldplugging i guess
12:29
<ogra_cmpc>
dberkholz, ubuntu uses whatever udev and the kernel detect
12:29
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, well there's already altlinux one published (but it's i586)
12:30
http://sisyphus.ru/srpm/Sisyphus/kernel-image-led-tc/get [ru]
12:30
<dberkholz>
ogra_cmpc: ok. so you´re not loading say, 20 different sata chipset modules, you´re just loading the one detected on that system?
12:31
<ogra_cmpc>
gvy, that doesnt really help the ltsp5 spirit it will break in horroid ways to use such a kernel on ubuntu or debian for example
12:31
<johnny>
dberkholz, why should we do that? :)
12:31
<ogra_cmpc>
for such an image we need to get the respective meintainers to agree
12:31
<laga>
dberkholz: at least in the initramfs, only network related modules are included AFAIK. haven't verified though :)
12:31
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, i think that so far only patches and .config would be more or less universally useful :-(
12:31
<ogra_cmpc>
dberkholz, xactly
12:32
<johnny>
dberkholz, so.. i'm in :)
12:33
<dberkholz>
johnny: awesome!
12:33
<ogra_cmpc>
dberkholz, as laga said, the netboot initramfs only ships modules for NICs so there it cant detect anything else (udev does that later if run from its initscript)
12:34
<gvy>
and probably shouldn't
12:34
<ogra_cmpc>
??
12:35
you mean udev ?
12:35
<johnny>
dberkholz, we still have to worry about the kernel
12:35
bootup will take forever with all the modules genkernel adds
12:36
<ogra_cmpc>
johnny, cant you hand over a list with modules to that tool ?
12:36
<johnny>
not yet
12:36
<gvy>
"anything else", yes
12:36
<dberkholz>
johnny: oh, we´ll figure something out. we should make genkernel be smart about hotplugging if it´s not yet.
12:37
<ogra_cmpc>
gvy, how will users get their HW working then ?
12:37
<dberkholz>
johnny: if you post your stuff, i could try it out and take a closer look
12:37
<johnny>
i'll be posting it as soon as i can
12:37
today/tonight
12:37
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, well, ours do somehow... i didn't look in our mkinitrd for quite a time, led did
12:37
<johnny>
i need a patch in baselayout i think
12:37
or rather openrc
12:37
<gvy>
but generally it's surprisingly ribust
12:37
<dberkholz>
johnny: for?
12:37
<gvy>
*robust
12:38
<johnny>
or maybe i don't need it now, i thought i did, during the testing phase
12:38* gvy runs home: don't break what's working :-)
12:38
<johnny>
gvy you should try to be more inclusive
12:38
<gvy>
johnny, i try...
12:38* johnny thinks ogra is doing a great job at that
12:38
<ogra_cmpc>
gvy, i want that exotic soundcard that is supported by any ubuntu system to work as well as the sata controller that has the ide cdrom attached ....
12:39* johnny thanks ogra
12:39
<ogra_cmpc>
thats not just solved through hardcoding a set of modules in the intrd
12:39
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, we do udev with minimal ruleset off initramfs and another one from startup scripts
12:39
the latter can have way more modules and rules too
12:39
<ogra_cmpc>
right, the same as we do
12:39
<gvy>
and can be shot down to save ram for X
12:40
ogra_cmpc, well then i don't really know the difference :-) set the image to push out of the office...
12:40
<ogra_cmpc>
initramfs simply has a limited set of modules available ... so it doesnt matter which rules yu have
12:40
that saves us from fiddling with distro rules
12:40
<johnny>
dberkholz, take a look at bootmisc
12:41deavid has joined #ltsp
12:41
<johnny>
down past # Make sure our X11 stuff have the correct permissions
12:41
<ogra_cmpc>
for the one run from initscripts we use the default ubuntu setup simply to be sure to have the same level of HW support and to not have to fiddle with distro rules
12:41
<dberkholz>
looking
12:41
<johnny>
do we need that stuff? it seems like we do to me
12:41
i could be totally wrong tho
12:42
<dberkholz>
johnny: which part? there´s 3 things after that comment
12:42
<johnny>
all of it
12:42
<gvy>
sorry, gotta run, should pick up mommy on the way
12:42
<johnny>
any of it
12:42
<dberkholz>
johnny: yeah we want that
12:42
<johnny>
then we have to patch the beginning of start()
12:43
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, if you'd have some merging time any day, ping me please?
12:43
<dberkholz>
hmm... yeah that test is inappropriate
12:43
<johnny>
it should check /var/run /mtp directly
12:43
<dberkholz>
it should test the places it wants to write
12:43
<johnny>
/tmp*
12:43
yes
12:43
<gvy>
bb folks!
12:43* gvy is away: ~
12:52
<johnny>
dberkholz, quickstart needs one more patch, to use the /etc/timezone file instead if /etc/conf.d/clock , which isn't in openrc anyways
12:53
<dberkholz>
johnny: /etc/timezone doesn´t exist on my system
12:53
johnny: did you mean /etc/localtime?
12:53
<johnny>
it falls back on /etc/conf.d/clock
12:53
no
12:53
take a look at pkg_config in timezone-data
12:54
that discussion just took place on #gentoo-desktop, scroll up a bit
12:56
<dberkholz>
i´m not convinced of that answer
12:56
<johnny>
well pkg_config shows it plainly
12:56
<dberkholz>
it doesn´t have any comment indicating when it´s expected to be used
12:57
<johnny>
/etc/init.d/clock is gone from openrc
12:57
only hwclock is there, and it has no TIMEZONE
12:57tux_440volt has joined #ltsp
12:58
<dberkholz>
hmm. that was just added a couple of weeks ago..
12:59
<johnny>
dberkholz, it seems to be added for openrc specifically
12:59
i've seen other such things in ebuilds
13:01chup has joined #ltsp
13:01
<dberkholz>
openrc doesn´t do anything with it, though...
13:01
<johnny>
i think it was left out on purpose, i don't know why
13:03
<dberkholz>
ah, found it.
13:03
<johnny>
oh?
13:03
<dberkholz>
in the openrc ebuild
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13:03
<dberkholz>
it grabs the timezone from conf.d/clock, if it exists, and echoes it to /etc/timezone
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13:04
<johnny>
ok.. i'll hold off on my quickstart patch then
13:04
until openrc is in a stage3
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14:27
<muh2000>
VOLUME = 100 still an accepted value in lts.conf?
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14:33
<generalsnus>
Ok, ive managed to get our edubuntu clients authenticate against our w2k3 server(Joined domain). But is it possible to have roaming profiles or somthing similar? lot of users are going to use the klients and we want a roaming profile.. or atlest a folder where they can save in, we would also need to deny them saving anything on the client then
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14:47
<warren>
Q-FUNK: blacklist patch rejected? did they state why?
14:47
<Q-FUNK>
warren: that the PCI parsing patch ought to be good enough
14:48
ajax ventures that with PCI parsing being fixed, the blacklist is superfluous and not so well written anyhow, in his opinion
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14:49
<Q-FUNK>
he doesn't reject the idea of a blacklist, just the proposed implementation
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14:49* Gadi coughs - seems it was the emulator that was poorly written *cough*
14:50
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: *cough* you figured that out already? *cough*
14:50
:-P
14:50
<Gadi>
:)
14:50
<Q-FUNK>
well, yes, x86emu was not thorough or good
14:50
but they decided that the best way to expose bugs would be to release it, then brace for the flood of bug reports
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16:03
<wwx>
with xorg possibe to inverse mouse cursor moving direction with xrandr or something like that?
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16:11
<sutula>
wwx: Some input drivers allow you to do that
16:12
May be other ways I don't know of
16:12
<wwx>
mhm, thanks, going to investigate
16:14
<sutula>
wwx: I got this working for an Elo touchscreen, had to do that with that particular input driver
16:14
<wwx>
but with input_mouse?
16:16* sutula looks
16:18
<sutula>
wwx: That particular InputDevice (from the xorg.conf file) was Driver "elographics"
16:18
It allowed me to set MinX, MaxX, ...
16:18
Reversing them reversed the mouse (so that it worked right for my display unit
16:19
<wwx>
thanks for hint
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16:46
<klausade>
generalsnus: got any further with ldap and Skolelinux?
16:48
<generalsnus>
we decided to auth against w2k3 AD instead
16:49
was easy with "Likewise"
17:00
<johnny_>
dberkholz, you interested in working on the patch for openrc?
17:00
<dberkholz>
johnny_: oh, i'll bug him about it now
17:00
<johnny_>
he told me what to he wanted
17:01
http://rafb.net/p/2kE4zP58.html
17:01
that's the simple version
17:01
<Uber> johnny_: what you need is to make that test into a function
17:01
<Uber> and then split the script into chunks where each chunk deals with one bit
17:01
<Uber> so you can do something like
17:01
<Uber> if mount_write /var/run; then clean_var_run; fi
17:04
<dberkholz>
oh sure, shouldn't take a minute
17:12
<johnny_>
i'll get the rest of the stuff uploaded tonight when i get a minute
17:12
after work
17:13
<dberkholz>
johnny_: try something like http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ltsp/bootmisc
17:13
untested
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18:33
<johnny_>
dberkholz, http://rafb.net/p/7NuUZW18.html
18:33
one by uberlord himself
18:36
there won't be a release until .2.3 tho
18:37
or whatever version is next
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18:43
<dberkholz>
johnny_: doesn't account for /etc not being writable for /etc/nologin
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18:51
<johnny_>
why don't you join #gentoo-base
18:51
and talk to uberlord yourself :)
18:51
since i'm at work
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22:02
<pleaseandthankyo>
is there a good diet softwares? like for a diabetes guy or a healthy living diet software for person who has heart d eases?
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22:42
<johnny>
too bad he left
22:42
cuz i just saw something for diebetics
22:42
diabetics*
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