IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 February 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:18
<herytjb>
hi all
00:23
am a newbie on ltsp and have been gathering info to potentially deploy ltsp to one of my clients. Checking Google and read the LTSP manual I came across Sabayon and Custard for desktop profile mgmt. Sabayon never worked so far. Does anyone know of any other alternatives? Thanks a heap.
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02:10
<Pooria>
Hi I have installed LTSP on my ubuntu machine and built the client and .... everything is fine and my thinkclients boot very well without any problem - the only problem : I can not ssh to my thinkclients !!! I will get connection refeused on port 22 !!!! How can I fix this?
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02:13
<Pooria>
HELLO ..........
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02:20
<alkisg>
Pooria: thin clients do not have ssh installed by default
02:20
That's why you cannot ssh to them
02:26
<Pooria>
alkisg how can I install that?
02:27
alkisg, my thinkclient in this case is my laptop
02:27
<alkisg>
Pooria: you might have some misunderstanding, so allow me to ask: *why* do you want ssh on the clients?
02:27
<Pooria>
alkisg, I need it , the purpose is not important here - the point is "i need to" is it possible or not?
02:28
<alkisg>
Yes, it is possible. But you do understand that there are *no user accounts* on the clients, right?
02:28
<Pooria>
Well authentication is done thorugh the server right?
02:28
<alkisg>
And also, the user sessions do not run on the thin clients, so you cannot watch/kill processes etc
02:28
Not if you try to ssh into the client
02:29
<Pooria>
alkisg, I wanna run a cluster
02:29
<alkisg>
So I think the purpose is important, as it might clear up some misunderstanding
02:29
<Pooria>
diskless nodes
02:29
and using ltsp i can boot up ubuntu on the client
02:29
<alkisg>
cluster == where the processing happens on the clients? LTSP is the opposite, the processing happens on the server
02:29
<Pooria>
if I find a way to be able to run process on them , then I will be good
02:29
<alkisg>
Maybe you want fat clients, and not thin clients?
02:30
<Pooria>
I've read that we can pushe the process to clients too in LTSP
02:30
<alkisg>
You mean localapps?
02:30
<Pooria>
yes
02:30
<alkisg>
LTSP supports thin clients, localapps, and fat clients
02:30
<Pooria>
alright then
02:31
so I want fat clients!!!
02:31
<alkisg>
But you need to clear up how are you going to send/run things on the clients
02:31
<Pooria>
OK
02:32
I want group of computers - one server - several clients
02:32
clients are diskless
02:32
and I want to be able to ssh to them
02:32
and be able to RUN app on them - not on the server
02:32
thus, is it possible?
02:33
<alkisg>
Yes, but authentication can't happen on the thin clients
02:34
<Pooria>
So alkisg I need fat client in my configuration?
02:34
<alkisg>
Fat clients are not different than thin clients, when authentication is concerned
02:35
So you'll either need to unlock the root account on the chroot, or add some user on the chroot. That's insecure.
02:35
<Pooria>
security is not an issue here
02:35
tell me what to do here now
02:36
<alkisg>
Do you need different accounts? Or the root is ok?
02:36
I.e. does ssh'ing as root to the clients suit your needs?
02:36
<Pooria>
root is fine
02:36
sure
02:36
that's totally fine
02:37
<alkisg>
Here's one method: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/PasswordlessSSH
02:38
<Pooria>
ok and processes will run on the Terminal itslef not on the server then right?
02:38
<alkisg>
Yes
02:39
But any processes that you want to run there should be installed on the chroot
02:39
Not on the server
02:39
<Pooria>
chroot is /opt/ltps/i386 ?
02:39
<alkisg>
So e.g. if you have a "my-program" that you want to run, you'll need to transfer it to the clients, or copy it to the chroot
02:39
Yes
02:39
<Pooria>
alright I'm going to do that know
02:40
<alkisg>
If your program doesn't depend on any special libraries, you don't need fat clients
02:40
<Pooria>
what do u mean?
02:40
<alkisg>
Thin clients have fewer libraries than fat clients
02:41
So if you want to run a text mode mathematical program you should be OK
02:41
If you want to run a larger program that needs java libraries etc then you'd need fat clients
02:41
<Pooria>
alkisg, thanks , let me try this first
02:41
<alkisg>
ok
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02:50
<Pooria>
great bro but I have just a small problem alkisg
02:50
alkisg, I can not install anything using apt-get and doesn't even know "sudo" :!!!!!
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02:56
<alkisg>
!docs
02:56
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
02:56
<alkisg>
Pooria: read the docs for a while to understand how ltsp works
02:56
You don't install stuff while ssh'ing to the clients, you install it to the chroot
02:57
I.e. sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
02:57
<Pooria>
and then run install what ever I want there?
03:04
<alkisg>
See this for an example: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
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04:34
<ogra>
alkisg, what did you guys do to ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
04:34
its spilling my logs on a machine that had ltsp installed but no client chroot on every boot now
04:34
<alkisg>
ogra, no idea, it's Gadi's area of expertise :D
04:35* ogra wonders if Gadi noted that ltsp-update-sshkeys is called automatically on every interface bringup by if-up.d
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07:51
<markit>
hi, I've an "atom based" thin client for some tests. Is there a specific parameter I have to issue or ltsp-build-client --arch i386 is right?
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08:54
<markit>
well, I've a normal pc that boots fine in ltsp (pxe), but atom based netop or thin client do not
08:54
they hang ... seems the netbook has problems with eth, and the thin client gets a kernel panic
08:54
maybe later I will find someone that can help me troubleshoot
08:55
netbook has ubuntu 9.10 installed, so works fine with GNU/Linux
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08:55
<markit>
ltsp is on debian sid, squeeze (testing) client
08:55
see you later :)
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10:58
<anivair>
sip phone question: is there any reason to presume that twinkle should be giving me problems on ltsp?
10:58
because my audio is very shakey at the moment
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11:45
<anivair>
all the sip phones I'm trying ot work with are set to use alsa
11:45
apparently there used to be (and maybe still be) an issue with pulseaudio and sip phones
11:45
but AFAIK, I have to use pulseaudio to get audio on thin clients, correct?
11:46
<vagrantc>
yes, pulseaudio is pretty much *the* way to get audio on thin clients.
11:46
there's still support for esd and nas, but it probably hasn't been tested.
11:46
in years
11:46
many years
11:46
<anivair>
ouch
11:47
<alkisg>
Maybe you can try to use it as a localapp?
11:47
<vagrantc>
pulseaudio provides the alsa compatibility layer, and nearly all applications support alsa
11:47
<anivair>
any suggestions for reconciling that?
11:48
because on the server, the audio works great, but when i log into a thin client I get intermittent stutters and sound garbage
11:48
<vagrantc>
localapps are definitely a good way to go for something that needs good performance for audio
11:48
<anivair>
using (for example) twinkle (but linphone in the same or worse)
11:48
well, last night when i tried to use localapps, it crashes my ltsp logins period
11:48
it would halt the load at "loading vmlinuz"
11:49
\and I had to rebuild the kernel, reload it, and reb oot
11:49
<vagrantc>
you must have had some problem completely unrelated to localapps
11:49
<anivair>
but I might play with it again today, i guess
11:49
I thought that, but trying ot use the lts.conf file with localapps in it (and only localapps) broke it consistently
11:50
<vagrantc>
lts.conf isn't referenced in any way, shape or form until *much* later in the boot process.
11:50
<anivair>
that's what Scott said, but nothing else changed about my setup.
11:50
<vagrantc>
you don't even have a kernel loaded at that point
11:50
<anivair>
all I did was put the lts.conf in place and it died on me
11:50
<vagrantc>
unless it's actually sucessfully loaded the initramfs ... and it's dying trying to download the lts.conf via tftp ...
11:51
<anivair>
that's possible
11:51
<vagrantc>
anivair: did you edit /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default to remove quiet and splash?
11:51
<anivair>
I guess I can experiment with it
11:51
<vagrantc>
that would give you a little bit more information to figure out where exactly it's breaking.
11:52
<anivair>
I did not
11:52
(though m ine is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg)
11:53
<vagrantc>
ah, sorry.
11:53
yeah, that's probably where it will be
11:53
<anivair>
append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash
11:53
is the line I've got under vmlinuz
11:53
<vagrantc>
try removing quiet and splash
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12:25
<anivair>
hrm ... okay, I seem to have localapps running (ie, it's in my lts.conf and my system loaded)
12:25
but I do not seem to have an option in my menu for running the app locally
12:25
should there be a menu entry, or am I going ot have to write a script ot run it locally?
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12:36
<alkisg>
anivair: distro/version?
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12:51
<anivair>
ubuntu 9.10
12:57
64 bit
12:57
(ltsp is arch i386
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13:13
<alkisg>
anivair: you need LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True in lts.conf, and you need to install an application in the chroot which has a standard gnome menu (.desktop file)
13:20
<anivair>
alkisg: did that. should I, then, be seeing a local version of twinkle in the gnome menu? Because I still see only the one instance of it
13:20
is there a way to check and see whether it'
13:20
it's running locally or not?
13:20
<alkisg>
!localxterm
13:20
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
13:21
<alkisg>
anivair: so, open a local xterm an run ps on that, to verify.
13:21
<anivair>
right. thanks
13:21
(could I write a script to execute it locally by force if need be using the same techniqie? ltsp-localapps twinkle?
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13:29
<alkisg>
Sure
13:29
That's essentially what the LOCAL_APPS_MENU does
13:29
<anivair>
sweet
13:29
<alkisg>
But did you install twinkle to the chroot, and ran ltsp-update-image?
13:30
<anivair>
since I only need the one app, that might be a good option
13:30
I did ... let me get you the command
13:31
<alkisg>
The correct way to do it is with the LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True option, that would put it to the gnome menus, overriding the server version
13:31
<anivair>
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install twinkle
13:31
<alkisg>
No need for workarounds in this case. Just a little troubleshooting to get it working..
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13:47
<anivair>
okay, i'm now sure I'm running it locally and sound is still a little patchy. When a call starts, I'll get a stutter in sound for 3-5 seconds. That is the most common effect
13:47
and then it goes normal
13:48
sometimes (one in ten) a call will have no sound on the receiving end. All they'll hear is audio garbage (probably the noise from the system trying to amplify nothing)
13:48
and I'm not sure why
13:49
<alkisg>
Does it work correctly in standalone ubuntu machines?
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14:03
<anivair>
works just fine on the main server
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14:48
<martijn_>
can anyone tell me if 128MB is enough for the TC?
14:51
<anivair>
depends on what you're running. If it's just normal email, net, and some text work, then sure
14:52
<martijn_>
yes, that is the plan, but what if client wants to view youtube for example?
14:56
<johnny>
the real problem there is that flash sucks in general.. whether running on the server or client :)
14:57
it should be ok for youtube as long as you don't run flash locally
14:58
<martijn_>
it will be setup for a classroom environment, so the trick is to just NOT install Flash plugins I guess?
14:58
<johnny>
then youtube won't work :)
14:59
just don't install flahs locally on the terminals.. but keep it running on the server.. as it is by default
14:59
<martijn_>
so it will not hog the server then?
15:00
<alexqwesa__>
I can't write cyrillic symbols on my ltsp-client: setxkbmap ru,us - don't work (also don't work sr... , but work fr, de, ... etc)
15:00
any ideas???
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15:01
<alexqwesa__>
please help... me
15:02
<alkisg>
martijn_: I'm running flash on 64mb clients. Workable, but not full screen
15:03
alexqwesa__: distro/version?
15:04
<alexqwesa__>
opensuse 11.2, ltsp-image also based opensuse11.2
15:05
<alkisg>
Sorry, no idea, maybe you could ask in #kiwi (or is it #kiwi-ltsp? not sure...)
15:06
<martijn_>
ok thanks, no need for full screen, so I will just give it a shot
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15:09
<johnny>
martijn_, yes it will hog the server
15:09
flash sucks
15:09
:)
15:09
but.. it's needed by many people.. so they have to deal with it anyways
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15:36
<pem725>
do I need to run ldap any more for fat clients? It seems that stephane's latest ppa authenticates via ssh.
15:37
whoops, I'm using karmic if that matters.
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15:42
<markit>
hi, debian sid, ltsp 5.2-1, client as sqeeze (testing), kernel 2.6.32. I can boot my notebook as client without troubles
15:42
but if I use my atom-based netbook, or my atom-based thin client, it hangs
15:42
around the net/eth0 stage, after dhcp
15:42
any clue?
15:45
<vagrantc>
markit: were you able to get other versions to work? did it detect the network card?
15:47
<pem725>
quick question for fat client experts...I'm setting up karmic with fat client using stephane's ppa code. Do I still need to use LDAP for user authentication or can I just follow the simple build client and move on?
15:49
<vagrantc>
markit: and does it hang looking for dhcp, does dhcp give it a response and then hangs? what's the last message you see?
15:49
<johnny>
pem725, try it
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15:50
<vagrantc>
pem725: shouldn't need ldap.
15:50
<markit>
vagrantc: the problem is that is dowloading the kernel, the teh cursor moves up in the screen and starts overwriting previous messages
15:50
<vagrantc>
pem725: with recent versions...
15:50
<pem725>
yeah, I guess I should but I want to make sure I cover my bases before any problems crop up.
15:50
<markit>
(also does with notebook)
15:50
<vagrantc>
markit: yeah, i've noticed that too...
15:50
<pem725>
thanks all.
15:50
<markit>
and since often is a pain try to read
15:51
let's try to troubleshooting netbook first?
15:51
<vagrantc>
markit: but can you give a best effort? :)
15:51
<markit>
let me try again
15:51
lol, sure, just to make you aware is not laziness on my side
15:52
<vagrantc>
:)
15:52
good.
15:52
lazy troubleshooters get me grumpy :)
15:52
<alkisg>
pem725: no, ldap is not required for fat clients.
15:53
<pem725>
thanks alkisg
15:53
I am just finishing up my build and should be booting in a few minutes.
15:54
<markit>
ok, it gets dhcp, then trying to load pxelinux.cfg/default
15:54
loading
15:54
No interface found! Aborting.. A7
15:54
so seems can't see the eth0 :(
15:54
while the ubuntu installed on it works flawlessy (if I boot with grub)
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15:55
<markit>
vagrantc: probably now you want to know nic model?
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15:56
<vagrantc>
markit: i also wonder if atom clients work with the 486 kernel, or if you should try one of the newer kernels.
15:57
markit: that sounds like an issue with pxelinux ... probably doesn't support your network card.
15:57
<markit>
also there is a message right before dhcp "pxe entrhy point found (we hope) at (address here) via plan A
15:58
<vagrantc>
markit: you could try syslinux from experimental, which has a newer upstream version...
15:58
<markit>
I've build for i386 architecture...is it producing 486 code?
15:59
vagrantc: sorry, I'm not a ltsp guru... a) pxelinux isn't loading the kernel, and kernel is 2.6.32, and it should have the module for my nick, since works in ubuntu?
15:59
b) what is the "syslinux" you are mentioning?
15:59
<vagrantc>
markit: or an older version of syslinux, seems like ubuntu still has 3.63, while debian testing has 3.83
15:59
markit: syslinux is the bootloader you load over the network... what actually loads the kernel and initramfs over the network
16:00
markit: the i386 architecture has multiple kernel variants built to support different sub-architectures, such as 486, 686 and so on.
16:01
<markit>
vagrantc: is there a way to tell ltsp to use the "lower pure i386" version of the code when build client part?
16:01
and how could I use a different syslinux inside my current ltsp?
16:01
<vagrantc>
markit: don't worry about that part too much... there's lots of other stuff to troubleshoot before worrying about that
16:01
the kernel type ...
16:02
<markit>
well, what puzzles me is thin client based upon atom should be very common these days
16:02
<vagrantc>
wow. ubuntu's got an older version of syslinux than debian stable!
16:02
<markit>
but google did not revealed specific problems about ltsp-atom, all the contrary
16:02
there are "ltsp - ready" thin clients based upon atom
16:03
<vagrantc>
atoms should be plainly compatible... most likely it's just something with the network card, either syslinux doesn't work with it... or the kernel.
16:03
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yeah, it's a pain, many clients are not booting anymore and we're downloading syslinux from debian to boot them :)
16:03
<vagrantc>
debian's kernels do tend to strip out non-free firmware.
16:03
<alkisg>
It's been patched for the cd gfxboot and it's difficult to update it :-/
16:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: have you looked into why it's held up for so long?
16:04
<alkisg>
pxelinux is not the problem, isolinux is - but they're both in the same package, so... :(
16:05
<markit>
mmm ubuntu package for the kernel is "linux-image-2.6.32-7-generic
16:05
<alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/270822
16:05
markit: does the client have a floppy/cd/usb stick to try booting it with gpxe?
16:06
<markit>
alkisg: usb could be used
16:06
<alkisg>
http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-1.0.0/contrib/rom-o-matic/
16:06
Choose an output format: ==> usb
16:06
Get image, dd it to the stick, and boot from it
16:07
(do try the newer pxelinux version first
16:08
<vagrantc>
markit: good luck... i unfortunately don't have much time to troubleshoot with you today.
16:08
hopefully there's other folks who can help? :)
16:08
<markit>
vagrantc: thanks a lot in any case :)
16:09
alkisg: I'll use unebooting to create the usb boot
16:09
<alkisg>
markit: http://packages.debian.org/experimental/all/syslinux-common/download
16:09
Download the deb from there, unzip, get pxelinux.0 and replace yours with that
16:09
<markit>
alkisg: faster solution? do I have to ltsp-rebuild anything?
16:09
<alkisg>
Nothing - just a file copy
16:10
<markit>
ok, hold on :)
16:10
<alkisg>
markit: also, did I understand correctly that the atom has an ubuntu os in it?
16:10
<vagrantc>
markit: additionally, you could copy the pxelinux from ubuntu to try
16:10* vagrantc really disappears now
16:10
<markit>
alkisg: yes, ubuntu remix, with kde (kubuntu remix) 9.10
16:11
<alkisg>
markit: ah, fine, I got a package for you :) gpxe for grub 2
16:11
You just install the package and you're done
16:11
<markit>
fabolous :) let me try asap
16:12
<alkisg>
https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/+files/gpxe_1.0.0~1~ppa1_all.deb
16:12
Just install this. It should add an entry to grub2, so you can select "boot from network" directly from the grub menu.
16:12
<markit>
thought it was in the repo...
16:13
but better use your previous suggestions
16:13
<alkisg>
No that's the best one
16:13
<markit>
since I have to try the "atom based thin client" also
16:13
that has NO os on it
16:13
<alkisg>
Vagrantc made the gpxe package and I added the grub2 capability
16:13
OK
16:14
<markit>
oh, lucky day in IRC for me :)
16:14
(thanks a lot for your work in FOSS!)
16:14
<vagrantc>
panthera: we must remember to add alkisg's grub2 hooks when uploading gpxe :)
16:14
<alkisg>
vagrantc really really disappears now :D
16:16
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, are you sure that I can "unzip" a .deb?
16:16
gives me an error with unzip packagename
16:16
<vagrantc>
dpkg-deb -x foo.deb /path/to/unpack
16:17
i'd better just disappear...
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16:19
<alkisg>
markit: sorry, wrong link for the gpxe-grub package, here's the correct one (if pxelinux.0 fails): https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/+files/gpxe-grub_1.0.0~1~ppa1_all.deb
16:21
<markit>
ok, replaced pxelinux.0, but I'm noticing has the SAME size of the previous one
16:22
looks they are the same...
16:22
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16470 20 feb 23:15 pxelinux.0
16:26
alkisg: well, gpxe package installed, I get "iBFT has incorrect checksup"
16:26
m
16:27
and no interfaces found...
16:32
<alkisg>
markit: you booted with gpxe in grub and you got that?
16:32
<markit>
yep
16:32
<alkisg>
Ouch
16:33
What nic is that?
16:33
<markit>
I copied the new pxelinux.0, noticed has the same size of older, so I tryed gpxe and got the same behaviour I had at the beginning
16:33
let me check
16:34
<alkisg>
Wait. *what* shows that message? Is it gpxe or is it later on, after the kernel is loaded?
16:34
<markit>
well, gpxe starts, says "waiting the interface to come up" or something like that
16:35
after 5-8 seconds starts dhcp and the usual stuff
16:35
and then the error
16:35
<alkisg>
So, you do see a "loading vmlinuz" ?
16:36
<markit>
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0)
16:36
(well, aspire specs dont' talk about "gigabit" ethernet... I'm puzzled)
16:36
<stgraber>
it's not
16:37
<markit>
let me try again and watch carefully
16:37
<stgraber>
Atlansic Gigabit is just some kind of brand, they aren't actual Gigabit (at least not the ones in the Aspire and some EEE)
16:37
<alkisg>
Wow, and that's called "branding", not "fooling people"? :D
16:38
<markit>
alkisg: is a mess with the overlapping messages
16:38
but is something like
16:38
<stgraber>
hehe ;) I found it quite weird the first time I booted my netbook too :)
16:38
<markit>
"trying to load pxelisnux.cfg/default
16:38
then "iBTF has incorrect checksum"
16:38
then "Loading please wait"
16:39
<alkisg>
OK, that looks like gpxe *can* handle your card
16:39
<stgraber>
I'm guessing the chip can do gigabit and so can the driver and it's just a small option to get from the 100Mb/s to the 1Gb/s one so they didn't take the time to change the product name ...
16:39
<markit>
and then "no interfaces found aborting"
16:39
<alkisg>
And either pxelinux or the kernel cannot.
16:39
<markit>
stgraber: and linux kernel is not exploiting this capability? sad .. :)
16:40
<stgraber>
markit: ethtool eth0 should give you the right result
16:40
<markit>
alkisg: the "thin client" also has a gbit ethernet adapter... is it a coincidence?
16:40
<stgraber>
markit: lspci is just showing what it gets from the device
16:42
<markit>
notebook, that boots fine, has 100mbit...
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16:43
<markit>
is ltsp 2.3.32 kernel without proper gbit modules?
16:43
2.6.32
16:44
<stgraber>
it's very unlikely to be the problem as I'm booting my own Atlansic gigabit with lucid (2.6.32) without any issue
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16:46
<markit>
stgraber: the netbook boots fine with 9.10, 2.3.32, but seems that does not work from ltsp instead, so just wondering why
16:47
maybe the packager left out some important piece
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16:53
<markit>
this is the thin client I want to boot and fails also like (with some difference) the netbook:
16:53
http://www.yashiweb.com/it/specifiche_tecniche/8233/
16:54
is really small :)
16:54
(page in italian, sorry, but data sheet is easy to understand)
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16:58
<markit>
alkisg is gone too... I suppose the situation is desperate
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