IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 June 2007   (all times are UTC)

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06:51
<ogra>
vagrantc, autogen stuff is fixed ... just adding themeing support
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07:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: nice.
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07:44
<yopla>
hello,
07:44
I need some info about boot process
07:45
Does ltsp client boot on tftpkernel or nfsroot?
07:47
It's because my network card isn't recognize so I need to modiy some stuff in kernel and initrd
07:48
<ogra>
it pulls the kernel via tftp either through etherboot or PXE, then mounts nfs and boots from there (using /lib/modules from nfsroot indeed)
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07:51
<yopla>
thank you
07:52
there are no modules in initrd?
07:54
<ogra>
there are
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07:55
<ogra>
in ltsp5 all NIC modules and everything you need to get the nfsroot running is there
07:55
dunno about 4.2 kernels
07:57
<yopla>
Hummm, I think then it's after nfsroot mount
07:57
<ogra>
whats your prob exactly ?
07:58
<yopla>
can't boot my G3 333 cause it says : eth0 not found
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07:59
<ogra>
do you know the NIC it uses ?
07:59
<yopla>
nope
07:59
<meeri>
where can I find the sound driver names for the lts.conf file?
08:00
are you using an Nforce chipset?
08:00Faithful has quit IRC
08:00
<ogra>
meeri, in a G3 ? unlikely
08:00
<yopla>
lol you're right orga
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08:01
<yopla>
it apple tagged. Don't know the true nic chip
08:01
<ogra>
yopla, i sadly only have G4's around and they work fine ... the only thing i could imagine is that your driver isnt in the initramfs
08:01
<meeri>
sorry, just joined
08:02
<yopla>
yes orga, you're right. I've got a fonctionning Debian sarge on a G3 server. I hop i'll find whats missing.
08:03
<ogra>
well, run a debian liveCd on it and check which driver it uses ;)
08:03
<yopla>
s/fonctioning/fonctional/g
08:04
I've just downloaded a netboot etch installer
08:05
none of ubuntu's images worked
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08:26
<yopla>
debian etch installer works like a charm
08:26
nic detected is : BMAC+
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08:32
<Nikopoika>
't know the true nic chip
08:32
obs
08:32
sorrypaste xD
08:35
<yopla>
bmac.ko is present in lib/modules
08:35
[ubuntu 6.10 nfsroot]
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08:37
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:38
<jammcq>
!s
08:38
<ltspbot>
jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:38
<sbalneav>
hey hey
08:40
<ogra>
!s
08:40
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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08:40
<ogra>
sbalneav, just puching the last changes to my branch :)
08:40
<sbalneav>
Hey ogra!
08:41
<yopla>
!s
08:41
<ltspbot>
yopla: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:41
<ogra>
sbalneav, themeing reintroduced, autogern run during export and some bugfixes for you
08:41
<sbalneav>
I rebuilt my chroot last night with the new updates, but it looks like it dies in the initramfs
08:41
<jammcq>
ogra: great blog post
08:41
<sbalneav>
just pops out to a busybox shell.
08:41
<yopla>
:-)
08:42
<ogra>
i hope that last merge worked, somehow that was a lot of work to rip out the autogen crap again
08:42
<sbalneav>
ah, bugfixes are always nice.
08:42
Your push done?
08:42
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you run ltsp-update-image in the end ?
08:42
indeed
08:42
<sbalneav>
yes I did
08:42
3 times :)
08:42
Had me stumped.
08:42
<ogra>
and update-kernels ?
08:43
<sbalneav>
yeppers
08:43
<ogra>
weird
08:43
<sbalneav>
and sshkeys as well :)
08:43
yeah, didn't get a chance to dig into it.
08:43
<ogra>
do you have an exact error ?
08:43
<sbalneav>
Can't remember, I'll try again tonight.
08:43
<ogra>
oki
08:44
<sbalneav>
I found the solution to my problem
08:44
<ogra>
there is a lot to be foixed for the new arch ...
08:44
i dont know yet what to do with the CD installer
08:44
<sbalneav>
Your push don?
08:45
<ogra>
(a bouncing progress bar with a "please wait this can take some time" for the image building seems appropriate
08:45
<sbalneav>
err, done?
08:45
<ogra>
since ages :)
08:46
<cottima>
I have a question about ltsp 4.2 vs. 5.0. I am running debian and new to it. Since it is a stable install of debian, it is not possible to install ltsp 5.0 from what I have been told. Is it possible to install 5.0 onto a Debian Etch stable 4.0?
08:46
without too much trouble?
08:46
<ogra>
!debian
08:46
<ltspbot>
ogra: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
08:47
<ogra>
debian etch is a bit behind on ltsp5 but it has packages
08:48
<cottima>
Well, I did the bottom half of this page http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto and it did not apppear that I had access to the new packages.
08:50
<ogra>
ask vagrantc f he's around
08:50
<sahil>
if im trying to use this sis x driver, would i have to modprobe the sis-agp kernel modules and stuff?
08:51
<sbalneav>
sahil: Ummm, possibly? :)
08:51
<sahil>
sbalneav: i've been trying to get graphics to work well for the past 2 weeks to no avail on the ebox 2300
08:52
<ogra>
on ubuntu its loaded automatically (at least on the e2300 i have here)
08:52
<sahil>
ogra: do you not experience slow down? like when drawing on gimp? also could i have your lts.conf?
08:52
<ogra>
sbalneav, please try to keep your tree somewhat in sync with guts-ltsp btw ... there are changes missing in your tree
08:52
<sahil>
also are you running 4.2 or 5?
08:52
<ogra>
sahil, i dont touch 4.2
08:53
<sbalneav>
ogra: I'm keeping in sync with your scotts-gutsy-ltsp brancg
08:53
synced it yesterday, and synced it now.
08:53
<ogra>
sbalneav, gutsy-ltsp is our all upstream branch ...
08:53
it has some fixes i'm getting to lazy to do before every testbuild :)
08:54
<sbalneav>
ok, I'll sync up with that.
08:54
Conflict: can't delete client/ldm2/autom4te.cache because it is not empty. Not deleting.
08:54
1 conflicts encountered.
08:54
<ogra>
megre my current scotts-gutsy
08:54
<sbalneav>
AAHHHHAHAHAHA
08:54
<ogra>
then i'll merge that into gutsy-ltsp
08:54
then you merge gutsy-ltsp ...
08:54
<sbalneav>
flippin' autom4te.cache.
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08:54
<ogra>
heh
08:54
yeah
08:55
ugly thing that
08:55
gave me some grief to get that clean again
08:56* ogra rebuilds his image and checks the themeing changes ...
08:56* ogra goes to make coffee while the image builds
08:58
<sbalneav>
sahil: which ltsp version are you running?
08:59
<sahil>
sbalneav:4.2
08:59
<sbalneav>
and it's slow with ltsp 4.2?
08:59
<sahil>
yes, I havn't tried 5 yet
08:59
<sbalneav>
But it boots fast, right?
08:59
<sahil>
i messed with the bios
08:59
yes booting is fine
08:59
x is just really slow
09:00
like if drawing in gimp the mouse is about 2 seconds ahead of what appears
09:00
<sbalneav>
It's a 200 mhz box.
09:00
Don't expect too much out of it.
09:00
<sahil>
it can't be that bad though right?
09:00
<sbalneav>
yes
09:00
it can
09:01
<yopla>
I'm back with some mor info. All drivers ar present for the G3's bmac NIC but it isn't detected boot time.
09:01
<sahil>
i've used a 233mhz pentium 2 and it was much better
09:01
<sbalneav>
200mhz isn't much speed.
09:01
<meeri>
heyy, my terminal has an AC97 built in, and it isn´t recogniced -- no file in /dev/dsp- module soundcore, anyone has ideas??
09:01
<sbalneav>
sahil: yeah, but it probably has a better northbridge architechture, a better video card, etc.
09:02
<jammcq>
sbalneav: binsons has about 40 166mhz P-1's and they do pretty well. I'd expect the e2300 should be reasonably usable
09:02
<sbalneav>
I've got one at home, and they're workable for "regular" tasks like OpenOffice.org, etc.
09:02
jammcq: binsons isn't doing the gimp, is it?
09:02
<sahil>
how does it play video fine?
09:03
is that done differently?
09:03
<jammcq>
no, but they're doing OOo and Firefox
09:03
<sbalneav>
right.
09:03
<yopla>
anyway to force it?
09:03
<sbalneav>
And for that, the e2300 seems fine.
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09:03
<sbalneav>
but I notice some lag on mine for graphics stuff.
09:03
<jammcq>
sbalneav: for my testing it was fine too, but i've been hearing several complaints lately
09:04
i'm just wondering if there's a config issue that some people are having that I haven't seen yet
09:04
<sahil>
mostly from me ( :
09:04
<jammcq>
sahil: you aren't the only one
09:04
<sahil>
that makes me feel a lot better actually
09:04
is video playback separate from x?
09:04
<sbalneav>
ogra: ok, merged with both your tree and gutsy-ltsp, and pushed up.
09:06
<ogra>
thanks
09:06
that helps :)
09:07
<sbalneav>
So, I struggled last night for 3 hours to figure out how the heck I was going to watch stdin from within the gtk_main() function for the greeter.
09:07
Was thinking I was going to have to have a timeout_add, etc etc etc
09:08
'Till someone nice in the #gtk+ channel pointed me at EXACTLY what I need!
09:08
g_add_io_watch!
09:08
perfect
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09:09
<sahil>
ogra: have you seen any slow down in drawing in gimp with the ebox?
09:09
<ogra>
sahil, well, the ebox is a slowdown in itself :)
09:10
<cottima>
on 4.2's install "Configure LTSP" if I want to change the configuration later, is that possible?
09:10
<jammcq>
cottima: sure, just run ltspcfg later
09:10
<ogra>
sahil, it lives in a different space-time continuum ;)
09:10
<cottima>
jammcq, thank you
09:10
<ogra>
sahil, but i didnt see any additional slowdown or so
09:11
<cottima>
oh, the server's network cards receive dhcp addresses, should I may them static?
09:13
<sahil>
ogra: did you do anything special and bios and could I please see your lts.conf for the ebox
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09:15
<sahil>
*in bios rather
09:16
<ogra>
sahil, i dont use any lts.conf ltsp5 doesnt need one
09:17
<sahil>
i see
09:17
i guess ill try 5 and hope it improves the situation
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09:25
<ogra>
sahil, it wont with the old ltsp ... the ebox is only well supported in gusy
09:25
(whic wont release before oct)
09:25
<sahil>
so waht can i do?
09:25
im putting this lab in for a bunch of kids tomorrow
09:26
i have 20 eboxes am i screwed?
09:26
<ogra>
to speed up booting you can use a static xorg.conf for one ... that will speed up a bit
09:26
<sahil>
booting is plenty fast
09:26
all im having problems is with the speed of x itself
09:26
<ogra>
oh
09:27
<sahil>
window drawing and the like
09:27
<ogra>
booting is *fast*
09:27
<sahil>
on 4.2 it is, ive heard of the slow down in 5
09:27
<ogra>
we have 4-5 mins for the ebox in feisty
09:27
which goes down to 90sec with the new implementation
09:28
well, if you are using 4.2 already i dont know how you could speed that up
09:28
<sahil>
i think i might just abandon these clients for our next project
09:28
<ogra>
well, they are very well supported in gutsy ... if you have an opportunity to use thers for now, i'd go with that
09:29
our focus was on the ebox for this release, since it was the slowest thing we could find :)
09:29
<sahil>
ogra: is there a prerelease i could use?
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09:30
<ogra>
sahil, its currently broken according to sbalneav and some other guy, i'm just digging into the bug ... for trying it our you could install ubuntu feisty, upgrade to gutsy and follow the ubuntu quickinstall guide
09:31
!ubuntu
09:31
<ltspbot>
ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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09:31
<sahil>
great ill try that today amongst some other ideas i have
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09:33
<yopla>
is there a way to tell which nic driver to load at boot time? In boot params? Or modified initrd.img?
09:34
<Blinny>
Hi - sbalneav suggested I turn on USE_NBD_SWAP as a solution for large images or resource-intensive webpages crashing FireFox. However, even with NBD swap on, I have an image-intensive email that crashes Thunderbird on my Term 1225e every time I load it.
09:35
Running through the debugger gives the error: 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)' just like the FF crashes before. -- Can anyone help me with this issue?
09:42
<sbalneav>
Looks like you need to make the swap file bigger.
09:44
by default it's only 64 megs I beleive
09:44
<ogra>
32 in ltsp5
09:44
<sbalneav>
ah
09:44
<ogra>
in 5 you can change it in the nbdswapd script itself or create an /etc/nbdswapd.conf for it
09:45
<sbalneav>
yeah
09:45
looks like you need to put SIZE=64 or something in /etc/nbdswapd.conf
09:45
oops
09:45
no
09:45
/etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf
09:47
<ogra>
ah, right
09:48
<Blinny>
Ah!
09:49
This is 4.2 and 'locate nbdswapd' doesn't return anything.
09:49
<Nikopoika>
this is madnees
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09:49
<Blinny>
*blink*
09:50
<sbalneav>
Blinny: then you can set the swap size in lts.conf
09:50
<Blinny>
Don't create /etc/nbdswapd.conf ?
09:51
<sbalneav>
no
09:51
You didn't specify that you were on 4.2, so we assumed you were on 5
09:51
<Blinny>
Sorry for the ambiguity. Is it 'SWAPFILE_SIZE' ?
09:52
(and is that per-client, or total?)
09:52
<sbalneav>
Can't remember off the top of my head. It can be per client if you configure it per client.
09:54
<Blinny>
As I figured I'd run into this for almost every client, I set USE_NDB_SWAP in the Default section.
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09:55
<Blinny>
There is also /etc/sysconfig/ltspswapd that has a LTSPSWAPD_SWAPSIZE setting (as per http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Swap#Swap_for_LTSP_4_2_and_Later_NBD)
09:58
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you notice that you get the diffs mailed if you subscribe to LP branches now ?
09:58
its a neat feature
09:58
<sbalneav>
No, I didn't. I don't think I've subscribed to any.
09:58
I should do that!
09:58
<ogra>
yeah
09:58
its really cool
09:59
<Blinny>
Well, I set LTSPSWAPD_SWAPSIZE=128m in /etc/sysconfig/ltspswapd -- will reboot and see if that helps.
09:59
I did restart ltspswapd
09:59
brb
09:59
<ogra>
sbalneav, can you specify there the swapfiles go in 4.2 ?
09:59
<sbalneav>
No, I don't think so.
09:59
<ogra>
if your server has enough ram it makes sense to create them in a tmpfs
09:59
<Blinny>
I also have LTSPSWAPD_FILEPATH=/var/opt/ltsp/swapfiles/
10:00
<ogra>
it speeds up a lot if you have to swap
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10:00
<Blinny>
tmpfs 4080236 0 4080236 0% /dev/shm (used=0)
10:01
Can I point it to /dev/shm ? (which is a directory)
10:01
My server has 8GB RAM.
10:02
<ogra>
either that or just mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /var/opt/ltsp/swapfiles
10:03
<Blinny>
Even if /dev/shm is already mounted?
10:03
<ogra>
as you like
10:03
<Blinny>
heh
10:05
Okay, awesome. Let me give it a whirl.
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10:09
<Blinny>
sbalneav/ogra: Excellent. That worked. Thank you!
10:09
<ogra>
:)
10:10* ogra would love to default to swapfiles in tmpfs ... if it only wouldnt eat so much ram
10:10
<Blinny>
So if I start running out of ram the first thing should go is that swapfiles tmpfs mount in /etc/fstab eh?
10:10
<ogra>
right
10:12
<Blinny>
Yeah. They start at full size (I set mine to 128m)
10:12
Would they just rollover to _real_ swap (to disk) though if tmpfs fills up?
10:12* ogra twiddles thumbs waiting for the reciept mail for his last upload ....
10:12
<ogra>
Blinny, not with nbd ... nbd needs image files
10:13
<Blinny>
Ah. Fun.
10:13
<yopla>
yaah! I finaly suucced in booting ubuntu_6.10 on my G3 :-)
10:13
<ogra>
yay
10:13
<yopla>
but! Xserver doesn't work :-(
10:14
<Blinny>
Thanks ogra.
10:14
<yopla>
I've got black screen with X xursor only
10:14
<ogra>
yopla, so the X server works ...
10:14
but the display manager doesnt ...
10:14
<yopla>
orga: ho ok you're right
10:15
<ogra>
yopla, did you change the default lts.conf or something ?
10:15
<yopla>
not yet
10:15
does ppc have ldm?
10:16
<ogra>
sure
10:16
it shoudl default to it :)
10:16lambda is now known as lambda_roxxxxxxx
10:17
<yopla>
hum
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10:18
<yopla>
what's the cliebow-2 root login? ;-)
10:18
s/login/password
10:19
<sahil>
jammcq: im going to do an install of puppy linux on the ebox 2300/if x runs fast locally is there a way to capture that environment and have it be what is loaded over ltsp?
10:20
<ogra>
yopla, there are no users in the chroot by default and root is locked
10:22
<yopla>
ho... how to debug then? remote syslog doesn't tell mauch
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10:38
<sahil>
can any option that is passed to x for a driver be passed through ltsp?
10:39
i mean lts.conf
10:41
<sbalneav>
You mean, an option in the xorg.conf file?
10:41
Some can be, others cant.
10:41
If you need a really custom config, you could create a file like:
10:41
xorg.special.conf
10:41
put that file in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/
10:42
then use the parameter:
10:42
XF86CONFIG_FILE = /etc/X11/xorg.special.conf
10:42
which will tell that client to use that custom xorg config file.
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11:08
<sahil>
sbalneav:do you know anything about if i make a gentoo install on te ebox how i could make that the environment that the client's boot?
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11:10
<sbalneav>
LOL
11:10
We've spent 5 or 6 years doing that with LTSP :)
11:10
<sahil>
ha
11:10
<sbalneav>
Why, does it work with gentoo?
11:11
<sahil>
im going to make it work with the gentoo, its what i use so itll be easier for me to make it work
11:11
<sbalneav>
When do you need to get this working by?
11:11
<sahil>
saturday morning
11:11
ill distcc so it compiles fast enough
11:12
summer learning program starts on the 25th
11:13
<sbalneav>
So, in two days, you want to install gentoo, and try to figure out how to get it going completely over the network?
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11:13
<sahil>
yes
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11:13
<sahil>
sleep is optional
11:13
<sbalneav>
Good luck with that.
11:14
<sahil>
thanks...how do i do that?
11:14
<jammcq>
hehehehehe
11:15
<sahil>
heh
11:15
<jammcq>
try asking dberkholtz, he's the gentoo guy around here
11:15
he's been working on gentoo for ltsp for quite a while
11:15
I think it's still compiling :)
11:15
<sbalneav>
Lot longer that two days.
11:15
<sahil>
if i distcc it i have like 4 servers i can have a local working environment in a few hours i feel
11:15
<vagrantc>
there's someone in new mexico i met who set up a network boot gentoo environment
11:16
<sahil>
i just don't know where to go after that
11:16
<vagrantc>
well, building the environment is the easy part.
11:17
it's configuring that environment to work over the network.
11:17
<sahil>
is there something i can read?
11:18
<vagrantc>
if you know how to write, you'll be able to read it later.
11:18
<sahil>
great
11:20
<vagrantc>
if you know how to use a search engine, you might find something.
11:21
<sahil>
what is this search engine you speak of?
11:21
is it a v6?
11:22
<vagrantc>
well, google.com is a big one ... there are others
11:24
<sahil>
did you know you can find porn with this google.com?! vagrantrc you have changed my life!
11:25
<sbalneav>
sahil: Did you try what I gave you? Custom xorg files?
11:25
<sahil>
im about to after i go buy cigs, ill update you when i get back
11:25
thanks
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13:35
<sahil>
sbalneav: there was no noticeable improvement
13:38ace_suares has quit IRC
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13:38
<sbalneav>
So, does it work under Firefox, OpenOffice, etc?
13:38
It's just slow in the gimp?
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13:44
<sbalneav>
sahil: Are all apps slow, or just graphics intensive ones?
13:47irule has joined #ltsp
13:51
<sahil>
sbalneav:all apps are slow with regards to window drawing
13:52
the gimp is just slow when you draw the mouse is ahead of what is drawn slightlyy
13:52
video playback is fine though
13:52
<sbalneav>
well, HOW slow?
13:52
<sahil>
it is on the border of being unusable
13:53
the good side of the border i suppose
13:53
<sbalneav>
That tells me nothing.
13:53
<sahil>
how can i give you a quantatitive measure?
13:53
<sbalneav>
How long does it take to, say, scroll a web page?
13:53
like, 30 seconds to drag it an inch?
13:54
or is it just slow enough that you can see it?
13:54
<sahil>
yes it is
13:54
the second
13:55
2 seconds or so on a page down
13:55
<sbalneav>
What video driver are you using on this thing?
13:55
<sahil>
sis
13:55
<sbalneav>
What speed's your lan?
13:55
<sahil>
ill show you the xorg.conf im using one sec
13:56
100mbit gigabit from the server to a gigabit switch
13:56
<sbalneav>
And here's the most important question.
13:56
If you put a more powerful box as a client, is the speed ok?
13:57privet has joined #ltsp
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13:57
<sahil_>
sbalneav: do you know why video doesn't show any problems?
13:57
even when its full screen
13:57
<sbalneav>
nope
13:58
<sahil_>
my next idea is to try and load the sis specific kernel modules
13:59
sis-agp sis sisfb /drm/sis
13:59
<sbalneav>
You haven't shown me the xorg.conf yet
13:59
<sahil_>
http://pastebin.com/933487
14:02
<sbalneav>
According to sis(4), there's no parameter called "UseFBDev"
14:03
<sahil_>
interesting i picked up the xorg.conf from someone who had installed puppy on the ebox
14:05privet has quit IRC
14:05
<sbalneav>
What happens if you remove it?
14:06
Typically, if you use a FrameBuffer, things will be slower
14:06
<sahil_>
hmm well if i remove it wouldn't it be nearly identical to if i set it to XSERVER = sis
14:06
in lts.conf
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14:09
<sbalneav>
Possibly, but why not test it to be sure?
14:13sahil has quit IRC
14:16
<sahil_>
sbalneav: no noticeable difference
14:17
<sbalneav>
OK, so you're on 4.2, right? So, we're at least xorg, so lets have a look at some of the sis(4) options.
14:18
<sahil_>
ok, what do you think of loading those modules?
14:18
<ogra>
you should also check your BIOS and set the shared video ram to the max
14:18
<sbalneav>
What's it set to now?
14:19
<ogra>
factory default is 8M i think
14:19
or 4
14:19
<sbalneav>
as for the modules, try loading them, see what happens.
14:19
<sahil_>
ogra:when i set the shared mem to max it actually slowed it down for some reason
14:19
significantly
14:20
<sbalneav>
what resolution are you trying to run this at?
14:20
<ogra>
ah, yeah above 1024x786 isnt really fun on that thing
14:20* jammcq wonders why you'd want it set at the max
14:21
<sahil_>
it was running 1280x1024
14:21
<sbalneav>
What happens if you try 1024x768?
14:21
<jammcq>
I've only run the e2300 at 1024x768
14:21
and it seemed fine to me
14:22
<sbalneav>
That's a lot less bytes for it to slog around
14:22
<sahil_>
im running at 1024 now its still slow on drowing
14:22
drawing
14:22
<ogra>
i had it at 1280x1024 and it was no fun
14:22
1024x786 seemed half way useable
14:22
<jammcq>
but, 1024x768x2 = 1572864, so setting video ram to 2mb is more than enough
14:22
if you can set it that low
14:22
<ogra>
think 4 is the lowest
14:22
<sahil_>
8 is the lowest on my model
14:23
<ogra>
ah, well
14:23
<jammcq>
hmm, well, 8 it is
14:23
<ogra>
then it was 8 :)
14:23
<sahil_>
isa bus speed up?
14:25
<ogra>
i didnt change anything beyond the shared and video ram parameters
14:26
and the isa bus shouldnt affect netbooting at all
14:30
<sahil_>
what kind of network traffic can i expect when moving a window around?
14:31
<sbalneav>
Are you using Gnome for your desktop?
14:31
<sahil_>
yes/ i just tried xfce it was better
14:31
but in gimp drawing is still agonizingly slow
14:32
i also turned on reduced resources in gconf
14:32
<sbalneav>
There are settings in Gnome that allow you to customize gnome for low bandwidth/memory situations.
14:34mikkel has joined #ltsp
14:34
<sahil_>
the clients came with a cd that has a replacement xserver
14:34
which utilizes the framebuffer
14:36
<mikkel>
What is the status of LTSP5 on Fedora 7 ?
14:36
<ogra>
non existent
14:36
<sbalneav>
mikkel: in terms of a native port?
14:36
<ogra>
in discussion ?
14:36* ogra holds back to say vaporware
14:36
<sbalneav>
ogra: they can download an Ubuntu tarball and install it on Fedora, :)
14:36
<ogra>
right
14:37
<sbalneav>
mikkel: Fedora hasn't had time to work on a native port of ltsp5 yet
14:37
<mikkel>
sbalneav, I guess, can you install ltsp5 on fedora 7 witout using Ubunto packages
14:37
<sbalneav>
No.
14:37
<mikkel>
sbalneav, Ok thanks.
14:37
<sbalneav>
You'll have to use the Ubuntu or Debian tarball at this point.
14:38
<mikkel>
sbalneav, What is the drawbacks of that ?
14:39
<sbalneav>
Nothing, other than if you have a philisophical problem of installing Ubuntu bits on your fedora box :)
14:39
<ogra>
different standards ... the login manager tries to execute /etc/X11/Xsession (which is a standard on debian based systems)
14:39
missing packages (there are no ltspfs packages for redhat yet)
14:39
<sahil_>
sbalneav: XF86CONFIG_FILE = /etc/X11/xorg.special.conf is that right line in lts.conf because the error was going so fast i couldn't see it but its not finding that
14:40
<ogra>
so you will have to do some maual work
14:40
*manual
14:40
<sbalneav>
sahil_: do you HAVE an /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.special.conf?
14:40
brb
14:41
<mikkel>
sbalneav, But it will still be fedora packages I install after the LTSP5 scripts are installed ?
14:42
sbalneav, No of course not. It will be Ubunto on the thin client that connects to the Fedora server ??
14:43
<ogra>
mikkel, right
14:44
mikkel, all server side stuff that ubuntu has needs to be added manually somehow to your redhat, on the client side you run a minimal ubuntu
14:45
<mikkel>
ogra, What exactly do you mean, what server side stuff ?
14:45
<sbalneav>
back
14:46
<sahil_>
sbalneav: yes i do have that file
14:46
<ogra>
mikkel, ltspfs, sound etc
14:46
<sbalneav>
mikkel: You need some bits up on the server
14:46
right
14:46
sahil_: Then that should be the right line I beleive.
14:46
<sahil_>
do i need to take out the XSERVER line?
14:47
<sbalneav>
It'll just get ignored.
14:47
<mikkel>
ogra, Ahh, okay that should'nt be a problem, should it ?
14:47
<ogra>
well, you need to add the right bits :)
14:48
for sound that should be easy, for ltspfs you need to somehow get the ubuntu package on the redhat server
14:48
<sbalneav>
alien should bring that in
14:48
<ogra>
does alien esist in RH ?
14:48
*exist
14:48
<sbalneav>
hmm
14:49
<mikkel>
ogra, I will have to compile it myself, no problem if I don't get into dependency hell-
14:49
<ogra>
mikkel, more important are the scripts that are only in the ubuntu package ...
14:50
sbalneav, we should move them to the main source btw :)
14:50
<sbalneav>
Probably
14:50
<ogra>
iirc they come from the debian dir atm
14:50
<sbalneav>
right
14:50
<mikkel>
ogra, I will give it a go one of these days and see where I end up. Thanks.
14:51
<ogra>
mikkel, feel free to pick our brains ... it probably hepls someone who finally steps up for implementing it in RH
14:51
<mikkel>
ogra, I will :)
14:52
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you find out why your initramfs didnt work ?
14:53
<sbalneav>
No, haven't gotten home yet
14:53
Still at work :)
14:53
<ogra>
ah, right
14:53
daytime here was fooling me
14:55
i just did a fresh ltsp-build-client
14:55
seems to work fine
14:56
<sbalneav>
ok
14:56
<ogra>
your status message gets a bit annoying over time :)
14:57
<sbalneav>
I'll give it a go again tonight
14:57
heh
14:57
that'll disappear
14:57
I probably shouldn't have pushed up a testing bit :)
14:57
<ogra>
i was pondering to empty it before the upload, but i think people will be happy to see whats going on ;)
14:57
<sbalneav>
"Hey, Look! Progress!"
14:58
<ogra>
oooh, da beauty
14:58
<sbalneav>
"They ARE doing something!"
14:58
<ogra>
the theme autoselection still works as before :)
14:58
yay
14:58
and now even with kubuntu and xubuntu themes
14:59
hmm
14:59
if i kill ldm X and the greeter go on running
14:59
we should tear them down with it
15:00
well, actually ltsp-client-core stop and restart should just work :)
15:00
we should write out the pids ...
15:01
or something like that
15:01
<sbalneav>
for the next few days, I'm going to be heavy hacking on the greeter and interface.
15:01
<ogra>
i have to dive into more classmate work
15:01
<sbalneav>
I'm using bzr as my sync between work and home, so probably don't merge from my tree for a bit, 'till I sound the all clear.
15:01
<ogra>
and will try to care alongside for the hal devices
15:01
<sbalneav>
Oh, good. You work on classmate. I can do some greeter stuff
15:01
<ogra>
yep
15:02
well, i want the hal devices done as well ...
15:02
and i shoud get something of ltsp-manager done this release
15:02
so these two need to be attacked as well
15:02
luckily LaserJock is there now to take some edubuntu tasks
15:03
now that he's main dev
15:04
<mopey>
Does anyone know of any troubleshooting guides for ltsp 5, similar to http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting?
15:04
for local media.
15:04
<sbalneav>
I don't have much clue on where to start with the hal stuff, but if you could get something minimal together, I could flesh it out.
15:05
<ogra>
mopey, is LOCALDEV=True set in your ltsp.conf ?
15:05
<sbalneav>
mopey: Haven't really written one yet. Might be an interesting excercise for tonight.
15:05
What's the problem?
15:05
<ogra>
sbalneav, i'll try to, i guess we'll need a hal-tspfs backend for the hal daemon
15:05
*hal-ltspfs
15:06
<mopey>
Having problems getting local usb detected.
15:06
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1182445160.21400.16.camel%40progeny.isu.edu&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
15:06
<sbalneav>
Who's a hal-guy in #-devel?
15:06
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices might also give some hints
15:06
<mopey>
ogra, yes LOCALDEV is set to true
15:06
<ogra>
sbalneav, pitti
15:06
sbalneav, but leave it up to me i'm already in the guts of hal
15:07
<sbalneav>
ok
15:07
mopey: so cdroms from the client work?
15:07
<mopey>
yes
15:07
<sbalneav>
Then localdev's basically working.
15:07
hm
15:08Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:08
<sbalneav>
when you plug in a usb device, do you get any kernel messages on the client?
15:09
<sahil_>
sbalneav:would you happen to know why video playback is absolutely fine?
15:10
<mopey>
ogra, thanks for the link. I think I've tried all that.
15:10
<ogra>
sbalneav, hmm, we should add a big red warning on the troubleshooting page that ots for 4.2 ... so people dont install libx11perl occasionally :)
15:10
mopey, well, is your USB stick recognized if you plug it in on the server ?
15:10
<mopey>
yes
15:11
<sbalneav>
sahil_: You asked me that already.
15:11
I said no, I don't
15:11
<sahil_>
ah sorry i must've missed it
15:11
<mopey>
sbalneav, not that I can see. Would they be in /var/log/messages?
15:11
<sbalneav>
the dmesg command would tell you.
15:12
<mopey>
on the server? No messages about it.
15:12
<sbalneav>
No, on the client
15:12
<ogra>
no, on the client console
15:12
<sbalneav>
mopey: you can do this:
15:13
on the server:
15:13
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
15:13
passwd
15:13
(set a root password for the chroot)
15:13
exit
15:13
then on the client
15:13
<ctl><alt>F1
15:13
you'll see a text login prompt
15:13
<ogra>
sbalneav, tat wnt work in the squashed image btw ...
15:13
<sbalneav>
login root
15:14
<ogra>
we should try to get used to SCREEN_02=shell again :)
15:14
<mopey>
When I try to put SCREEN_n=shell it kind of goes wonkey and won't let me log in.
15:14
<sbalneav>
password is the one you set
15:14
<mopey>
Even after I set a password or add a user like you did above
15:15
<jammcq>
mopey: what value did you use for 'n' ?
15:15
<mopey>
1
15:15
<jammcq>
yeah, that's the problem
15:15
use '7'
15:15
<ogra>
use 07 :)
15:15
<jammcq>
err, 07
15:15
<ogra>
or so :)
15:15
<mopey>
ah, alright.
15:15
<ogra>
no 1
15:15
*not
15:16lambda_roxxxxxxx is now known as lambda
15:17
<sbalneav>
ogra: should work in a squashed image, you'll juet need to update the image
15:18
<ogra>
nope
15:18
somehow the hashing is briken after the squashfs run or something
15:18
i havent checked deeper yet
15:18
<mopey>
so, on the client, it detects the device.
15:19
<sbalneav>
really?
15:19
I log in on a squashed fs
15:19
I've been doing it for the last week!
15:19
<ogra>
it works fine if i run passwd in the booted client
15:19
but it doesnt work if i set a pw in the chroot and compress it then
15:20
<sbalneav>
mopey: ok, does /etc/fstab get updated?
15:20
cat /etc/fstab
15:21
<mopey>
no. I don't see cdrom or fd0 on the fstab either.
15:22
only /dev/root and /tmp
15:23
<sbalneav>
mopey: which version of ltsp are you running?
15:23
<ogra>
is ltdpfsd running ?
15:23
<mopey>
sbalneav, 5
15:23
<ogra>
and do you see delayed_mounter and cdpinger in the rocesslist
15:23
*processlist
15:23
<sbalneav>
under what? Feisty?
15:23
<mopey>
yes, under feisty. ogra let me check.
15:23
<sbalneav>
hm
15:24
add_fstab_entry must be cacking somewhere
15:25
<mopey>
ltspfsd is running
15:25
<sbalneav>
mopey: try this, just for a laugh
15:25
/lib/udev/add_fstab_entry sda1 auto
15:25
<mopey>
and both delayed mounter and cdpinger are running
15:27Guaraldo has left #ltsp
15:27
<sbalneav>
What happens if you try that command, mopey
15:27
<ogra>
ok, the LOCALDEV=True is read then ...
15:28
<mopey>
sbalneav, I see a bunch of exports on the screen. I can look more closely at what they're doing....
15:29
<sbalneav>
any errors?
15:29
<mopey>
no
15:29
<sbalneav>
anything in /etc/fstab?
15:30
<mopey>
yes sda1 is there, still no cd (of course) but I see the cd still and not the usb stick.
15:31
<sbalneav>
you don't happen to have a /var/run/ltspfs_fstab do you?
15:31
<mopey>
no, not that I can see.
15:33
kind of a weird problem, since my setup was as 'by the book' as you can get.
15:33
And the cd-rom and stuff worked out of the box.
15:34
When I boot the thin client on a live cd, the usb mounts (so not a hardware issue).
15:34
*live feisty cd
15:37
wait. The cdrom is actually in /etc/fstab now after I put in a cd.
15:37
<sbalneav>
right
15:37
hm
15:38
what does dmesg say when you plug and unplug the usb stick
15:38
You should get some "detected usb device blah blah blah" messages
15:38bob_too has left #ltsp
15:39
<sbalneav>
And, do you keep trying the same key, have you tried other keys?
15:40
<mopey>
sbalneav, I get usb-storage:device found, waiting to settle, scan complete, direct access, scsi device sda, write protected... etc
15:40
I've only tried the same key, but it's detected elsewhere (even on the same machine with a live cd)
15:41
I'm rebooting the client now, see if your /lib/udev/add_fstab_entry will have any affect
15:41
<sbalneav>
Just out of curiousity, could you try a different type of key?
15:41
<ogra>
are there partitions on it ?
15:41
<mopey>
just a fat I think, or whatever the default was.
15:41
sbalneav, probably, I'd have to go look for one.
15:42bobby_C has quit IRC
15:48
<mopey>
Interesting. It mounted with a different drive.
15:49
I never would have thought that was the problem, since the old one mounted everywhere else.
15:49
<ogra>
i bet if you reformat the one that doesnt work it magicaly starts working
15:50
<sbalneav>
what's in /etc/fstab for that one?
15:50
sda1?
15:50
or sda?
15:50
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="?*" should work for either sda1 or sda, Id've thought.
15:51
<mikkel>
ogra, Getting a kernel panic with the kernel from ubuntu_6_10.i386 package (eTC-3800 thin client). Booting a kernel from LTSP 4.2 it boots fine but says /etc/rc.early_.. not found.
15:53
<mopey>
sbalneav, sda1
15:54ogra_ has joined #ltsp
15:54ogra has quit IRC
15:55ogra_ is now known as ogra
15:55
<sbalneav>
hm
15:55
Wonder if it's because it's unpartitioned.
15:56
it SHOULD work, I've seen it work for other sticks.
15:56
What brand is it>
15:56
?
15:56
<ogra>
i wonder if it has a dirty flag set ....
15:58
<mopey>
on fdisk -l...
15:58
5 heads, 50 sectors/track, 1021 cylinders
15:58
Units = cylinders of 250 * 512 = 128000 bytes
15:58
This doesn't look like a partition table
15:58
Probably you selected the wrong device.
15:58
and then other junk.
15:58
<ogra>
heh
15:59
mikkel, intresting ...
15:59
<mopey>
It's a 'staples' brand. Not sure what's inside.
15:59
<ogra>
mikkel, i must admit i didnt test 6.10 on the e2300 ... we tried a 7.04 with a kernel from 6.10 though and that worked fine so a kernel panic sounds weird
16:00
<mikkel>
ogra, Should it matter what kernel I use, I mean where does it get the /etc/rc.early.. from ?
16:00
<ogra>
not from the ubuntu tree for sure
16:01
there is no such thing called /etc/rc.early in ubuntu
16:02
<mikkel>
ogra, Is that in the kernel, thought that was in initrd and that should be read from the ubuntu tree.
16:02
<mopey>
Everyone, thanks. :)
16:02C1ph3r has joined #ltsp
16:02
<ogra>
mikkel, kernel and initramfs are read via tftp
16:03
<mikkel>
ogra, Then it makes sense. Will try the feisty package.
16:03
<ogra>
after the kernel has booted it mounts the initramfs, brings up your NIC and mounts the nfsroot ... then t switcheds over to the nfsroot and execs the initscripts
16:04
copy /boot from the tarball to your tftproot and point your dhcpd.conf to the right files
16:16gonzaloaf_work has quit IRC
16:16
<mikkel>
ogra, It is booting now with the ubuntu_feisty_i386 package (really cool with the ubuntu image when booting). After boot it just shows a _ in the top left corner !!
16:17
<ogra>
hm, looks like X didnt start or you ended up on a wrong console
16:17
something on console 7 ?
16:20
<mikkel>
ogra, No, but console 1 says: nfsmount: need a path. But I have set the root-path in DHCP.
16:20
<ogra>
how, can you show the line ?
16:21
there is a bug in initramfs where is doesnt accept "server:path" values for it ... you need to use "path" only ...
16:21
<mopey>
You get that if your dhcpd.conf root= line is wrong
16:22rcy` has joined #ltsp
16:22
<mopey>
err, root-path=
16:23
<sbalneav>
ok, I'm off home, I'll try rebuilding my chroot tonight ogra, we'll see if that other error disapears
16:23
See you all later.
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16:23
<mikkel>
ogra, option root-path "192.168.17.61:/opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386";
16:23
<ogra>
aha
16:24
make that option root-path "/opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386";
16:24
<mopey>
try taking out the 192.168.17.61
16:24
<rcy`>
hello
16:24
i just got ltsp working here at freegeek vancouver!
16:26
im wondering how to go about setting up users and logins. it would be convenient to have the same login for each client, guest/guest, but i run into problems with things like firefox already running as that user, etc. how do others deal with this issue; using ltsp in a classroom environment?
16:27
<mikkel>
ogra, How do I set the rootserver ? (The dhcp is on another server)
16:28
<ogra>
mikkel, yu could try just adding ROOTSERVER=192.168.17.61 to the pxelinux.cfg/default line
16:31
<mikkel>
ogra, That didn't help. "DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash ROOTSERVER=192.168.17.61"
16:32
<ogra>
is the nfs server the same as the tftp one ?
16:32
you could try next-server in dhcpd.conf
16:33
not sure that gets used as rootserver though
16:33
<mikkel>
ogra, nfs server is not the same. Will try that.
16:34
<ogra>
as last resort you can try setting nfsroot="192.168.17.61:/opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386" in the pxe config, but i'm not really sure thats handled differently to root-path from dhcp
16:35rcy` has quit IRC
16:41* ogra calls it a day
16:44
<mikkel>
ogra, Thanks for all your help. It seems to work the last thing you said. Now I need NFS over TCP.
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16:50
<skipper>
I am having problems, anyone want to hear about them?
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16:54
<skipper>
I am having a problem with edubuntu 7.04 running on an AMD 64 machine. None of my clients will now connect, when they used to on the old machine.
16:55
<mopey>
What are the clients saying?
16:55
<skipper>
No address
16:57
<mopey>
have you checked your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
16:57
Does it match your IP address?
16:57
<skipper>
I have a gigabit card, so thinking that was the problem, I changed it to a 100 MB card, but nothing changed
16:58
I checked the dhcpd.conf file and ran the update program after I changed it.
16:59
<mopey>
So... does it match your IP address still?
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17:03
<skipper>
I am back, my laptop stopped!
17:03
If I missed any comments, please fire back at me
17:07
Well, I guess no one is out there - Goodbye
17:07
exit
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19:07
<cliebow__>
how can i tell if sep. 6 1920 was a Monday???
19:07
speaking of ot
19:10
<cliebow_>
Whoa..it was
19:13
<dberkholz>
cliebow_: date -d "Sep 6 00:00 1920"
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19:21
<sahil>
i have come to the conclusion that the ebox 2300 is simply too slow to do gnome, however gnome using openbox is a thing of beauty
19:25
<cliebow>
dberkholz i just found my dad the day he immifrated in 1920\
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19:32
<sahil>
i know that wasn't to me but thats pretty cool
19:33
are the records all online?
19:36
<cliebow>
yeah..kind of tough to get a handle on it when you dont hasve a last name to go by
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20:30
<cliebow>
yeah..kind of tough to get a handle on it when you dont hasve a last name to go by
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22:35
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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23:10
<chowmeined>
yay for ltsp