IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 July 2011   (all times are UTC)

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15:18
<TheMatrix3000>
anyone here using Firefox, and LTSP and setting up a Proxy Server
15:18
I need my ltsp clients to use a proxy server i have setup
15:18
i just don't know how to direct the thin clients to use the proxy
15:25
<Hyperbyte>
Either use a transparent proxy (you'll have to set some firewall rules for that on the router)
15:25
Or use mandatory Firefox config
15:26
Both of those solutions are unrelated to LTSP, you can find lots of information about them on Google.
15:26
<TheMatrix3000>
i can't just set it in one place on the ltsp server
15:26
<Hyperbyte>
Why not?
15:28
<TheMatrix3000>
if i use firefoxmandatory will it affect ltsp-localapps firefox?
15:29
<Hyperbyte>
If you set mandatory config in the client chroot it affects the client's applications (localapps) and if you set it on the server it affects the applications running on the server
15:29
Google if your friend man. :)
15:29
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxMandatoryPreferences
15:30
*if -> is
15:35
<stgraber>
alkisg: I guess https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+archive/daily will be quite useful to you :)
15:38
<TheMatrix3000>
i know Hyberbyte i was already looking at it
15:38
<alkisg>
stgraber: very nice - unfortunately even if it builds for lucid, it won't work because of older udhcpc version - but I already uploaded a backported ltsp for lucid in https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa
15:38
<TheMatrix3000>
ah ok, i got you now byper
15:38
hyper*
15:39
<alkisg>
*in https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/ - first we get them to proposed and then move them to the "stable" greek ppa
15:46
<stgraber>
alkisg: can't we check for udhcpc's version in the upstream code rather than having to revert the commit?
15:56
<alkisg>
We could, if we first ran `udhcpc --help` or something and checked the output, to see which version is available
15:57
<stgraber>
do we get an error code when running the current code on lucid?
15:57
if so, we can probably catch that and start udhcpc without whatever option is causing problem
15:59
<alkisg>
Not error code, but we could check the stderr for "udhcpc: invalid option -- 'C'"
16:01
Or we could just run `udhcpc --help` beforehand and see the supported options
16:39
# udhcpc -v
16:39
udhcpcd, version 0.9.9-pre
16:39
# busybox udhcpc -v
16:39
version 1.13.3
16:40
The old one should be the same from dapper to lucid
16:41
And for Debian up to Lenny
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16:47
<fossala>
I have tried to install ltsp on debian squeeze with 1 nic but when I boot the thin client it connects though dhcp then just has "tftp......." then times out.
16:48
I have looked on the net and cannot see where I have gone wrong.
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16:58
<fossala>
It eventualy times out with "tftp open timeout"
17:02
<Hyperbyte>
!tftp | echo fossala
17:02
<ltsp>
fossala tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP.
17:04
<fossala>
Already seen that.
17:04
<Hyperbyte>
Does it work connecting with a tftp client locally on the server?
17:04
<alkisg>
So what is the next-server you get on gpxe?
17:07
<fossala>
tftp 127.0.0.1 -v -m binary -c get /srv/tftp/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
17:07
That returns with file not found.
17:07
the file is there though.
17:07
<alkisg>
The path is relative to the tftp root
17:07
So, use `get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0`
17:07
Don't put the whole path there
17:08
<fossala>
ok it managed to recive the file.
17:08
<alkisg>
(08:04:46 μμ) alkisg: So what is the next-server you get on gpxe?
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17:08
<fossala>
How would I find that out? sorry.
17:09
<alkisg>
By following the wiki page you already read :P)
17:09
<fossala>
I don't have a usb stick or a cd drive on the client.
17:10
<alkisg>
Do you have another client on the same subnet which you could try with?
17:11
(I mean, non ltsp)
17:11
<fossala>
No.
17:11
What should next server match in my dhcp.conf?
17:12
<alkisg>
Nothing, you should leave it commented out so that the server ip is used
17:12
<fossala>
Damn. Will check that out.
17:12
<alkisg>
What is your server/client arch?
17:12
i386/i386?
17:12
<fossala>
amd64/i386
17:13
<alkisg>
Try this as root on your server: /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
17:14
If you get a lease, then you have 2 dhcp servers on the same network, which is a problem
17:14
<fossala>
http://pastebin.com/7r9vE0Hv
17:15
file not found now I have commented out nextserver
17:15
<alkisg>
fossala: so, you have another server around
17:15
That's a problem. You may have other problems too, but that's one that may affect you.
17:16
*dhcp server
17:16
<fossala>
I had the same setup with ubuntu 2 hours ago.
17:17
fixed it.
17:18
<alkisg>
It's still a broken setup
17:18
You can make ltsp setups work with 2 dhcp servers
17:18
But if you don't make reservations or use proxydhcp, it's a broken setup
17:18
<fossala>
I have the dhcp on my router aswell.
17:18
<alkisg>
Yes, we do that here too
17:18
So you should use a proxydhcp server on your ltsp server instead
17:18
Because now you have a broken setup
17:19
!proxy-dhcp
17:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: proxy-dhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP.
17:19
<alkisg>
Or, if you have a good programmable router, you could just fill "next-server" and "option path" there
17:19
*root-path
17:20
<fossala>
Ok I will look into proxydhcp
17:20
<alkisg>
E.g. cisco routers support that, cheap d-links etc don't, so proxydhcp is needed there
17:20
<fossala>
cheapish d-link here
17:21
<alkisg>
Here too :) That's why we persuaded the dnsmasq developer to support the proxydhcp mode :)
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18:04
<Barco>
Any one know of ltsp projects that work with rural schools?
18:05
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, perhaps I don't understand correctly what 'rural schools' are, so forgive me if this a dumb counter-question, but what would the problem be with LTSP in rural schools?
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18:08
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Andy. :)
18:08
<Barco>
O, sorry let me expand.
18:09
am looking at getting guys together locally to help a rural school setup a lab.
18:09
<Hyperbyte>
How many clients?
18:09
<Barco>
Heard of a group called linuxlab.org that collect terminal worthy PC's for use in impoverished schools
18:10
but they have dissapeared.
18:10
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, basically you're hardware scouting? :)
18:11
<Barco>
Basically, but was also hoping to find some support as this is a greater issue than the hardware.
18:12
<Hyperbyte>
Well, supporting people setting up and troubleshooting LTSP is what we do here. :)
18:12
<Barco>
Great, will ask as questions arise. What's the minumum network harware I need for 10PC's?
18:13
<Hyperbyte>
Depends on what software users are gonna use, as well as how powerful clients you have.
18:13
<andygraybeal>
hi Hyperbyte :)
18:13
<Hyperbyte>
Clients can run certain software (like a browser) locally, which will greatly take tax off the server & network and increase performance all around.
18:14
But they need a bit of ram (at least 512mb I think) and a decent processor (1ghz?) to do that... I'm guessing a bit here.
18:14
<Barco>
I was thinking of using 486 - P2 clients as they are easy to source and don't have street value as a stolen item.
18:15
<Hyperbyte>
But basically, for multi-user environments it helps to have dual or even quad core processors, as this multiplies your system speed. And sufficient RAM...
18:16
<Barco>
I can search for sponsors for that. Would I need gigabit networking?
18:16
<TheMatrix3000>
no
18:16
not really
18:16
unless you have lots and lots of clients
18:17
like 50+
18:17
then it just helps
18:17
but you don't need it
18:17
i have 72 clients
18:17
NFS + LTSP + LDAP
18:18
<Barco>
Looking at getting edubuntu up and running. guess they won't need extreme video playback or the likes.
18:18
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, it also depends again on what software you're gonna run. A flash video at fullscreen will bring a 100mbit to it''s knees.
18:19
<TheMatrix3000>
basically, i will run firefox and flash as local apps
18:19
i would suggest running those as local apps if you can
18:19
<Barco>
I noticed, my lab runs that. It was crawling
18:19
<Hyperbyte>
I'm not sure 486 - P2 clients are gonna like Firefox.
18:19
<TheMatrix3000>
they wouldn't like flash haha
18:20
but if your machines are 486's
18:20
they won't have gigabit
18:20
lol
18:20
<Barco>
true lol
18:21
would basic edubuntu apps work without lag?
18:21
<TheMatrix3000>
yea should
18:21
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, it really depends man. :) I would suggest getting a live Edubuntu DVD and just trying it out
18:22
<TheMatrix3000>
i mean ldap is network intensive
18:22
<Hyperbyte>
You can get a live DVD which sets an LTSP server up on your network. If you then boot a computer via PXE netboot, it'll log into the live system
18:22
<TheMatrix3000>
with all 72 clients, i notice an average of about 28gb of traffic a day
18:22
at least
18:22
<Barco>
first need to find clients
18:23
28GB wow! using 100mb net?
18:24
what server hardware are you running? and what for clients?
18:24
<TheMatrix3000>
http://screencast.com/t/ZkNCzXZtKSU
18:24
I have a Dual Xeon Quad 2.8Ghz with 8GB ram
18:25
and using a gigabit backbone to 100mb to clients
18:25
<Barco>
Hmm nice setup.
18:25
<TheMatrix3000>
we have 72+ clients connecting to this one server
18:26
average load is 1.5
18:26
which is great
18:26
lowest i got during operating hours on it was 0.4
18:27
<Barco>
how do you manage network traffic. multiple lan cards & subnets?
18:27
<TheMatrix3000>
i have a pfsense box with 1 gbe lan port using vlans to subnet the traffic
18:27
and the other ports are for our internet which does load balancing etc
18:27
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, I still recommend you do a live version of LTSP somewhere. All it takes is two computers connected via a cross cable and you can test what impact local vs. server applications has on CPU usage vs. network usage, etc.
18:27
<TheMatrix3000>
yea
18:28
<Barco>
do you use onboard lan for clients or add on lan cards?
18:28
<TheMatrix3000>
expecially if you are using 486 clients
18:28
i don't think it really matters barco on that
18:28
but you should test it
18:28
what kind of server are you planning on using?
18:28
and 486mhz is slow
18:28
are probably harder to find
18:29
<Hyperbyte>
Too slow maybe
18:29
<TheMatrix3000>
1ghz pIII machines are about $30 a pop
18:29
<Barco>
core2duo 3ghz +/- 2-3GB ram.
18:29
<TheMatrix3000>
I think I would agree with Hyperbyte
18:29
486 is too slow
18:29
<Hyperbyte>
But Barco, here's an idea... yeah, like TheMatrix3000 said, clients are -cheap-. If you can get a server sponsored, you can get clients sponsoered.
18:30
<Barco>
Probably. I'll try.
18:30
<TheMatrix3000>
yea, i mean you can find P3 1Ghz machines all over
18:30
they are basically trash now adays
18:31
in downtown columbus they were running Windows XP Thin Clients on them
18:31
<Barco>
problem with faster computers as clients is desireability to steal the pc
18:31
But I'll have to work something out for security
18:32
<TheMatrix3000>
well the 1gz client
18:32
is only value bout 30$
18:32
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, I can't imagine anyone stealing thin clients.
18:33
Especially not if you get actual thin clients without harddisk (the little ones)
18:33
<Barco>
some peeps in this communities live off less than $100 a month.
18:33
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, so bolt them down.
18:34
<Barco>
TIA - this is Africa ;)
18:34
<TheMatrix3000>
oh
18:34
wow
18:34
well bolt them down
18:34
take out the hard drives
18:35
then they serve no purpose even as a machine to people
18:35
<Barco>
and put a sticker on them stating the fact lol
18:35
<Hyperbyte>
Barco, my advice, try and find a good sponsor, that can sponsor 10 cheap clients, 1 decent server, cabling, a hub, and equipment to bolt them down.
18:36
You're talking about what, $1200 dollars?
18:36
<Barco>
When people have nothin anything even insignificant seems significant.
18:37
About,
18:37
<TheMatrix3000>
your situation seems more of a political and physical one then a technological one
18:37
which makes it difficult cause technology has the reputation of being "valuable"
18:38
<Barco>
probably true. I'll research more and come back with questions
18:38
<TheMatrix3000>
people steal things just cause they think they work and are worth something even if the system doesn't work at all
18:38
if someone wants them enough they will just lift the tables out of the room
18:38
and take them with the computer bolted to it
18:38
<Barco>
and recycle the metal ;)
18:39
<TheMatrix3000>
so it is a risk no matter what
18:40
<Barco>
That is the situation that has me stumped. Will be a real waste to do all that work to have it demolished for perceived worth.
18:41
Will chew on it and speak to friends.
18:42
Thanx guys
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18:46
<Hyperbyte>
Anytime. :)
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18:51
<TheMatrix3000>
Hyper, it sounds to me like his biggest challenge is that, technology has value
18:58
<Hyperbyte>
TheMatrix3000, I got that. :)
18:59
It's different situation... I tell my boss the whole project will cost him around $5000 and that it'll be cheaper and better than Windows PC's and he says "ok"
19:00
<andygraybeal>
barco, i don't know your situation... can you secure the server atleast?
19:00
cause clients are a dime a dozen
19:01
we are lucky here.. i can go to an auction every quarter and grab any machine i want for about $20 bucks
19:01
if i feel like gambling i can bid on machines by the pallet.. and get an even better price.. but i don't have a truck for the pallet.
19:06
<TheMatrix3000>
haha
19:06
andy, how many clients you use?
19:07
andygraybeal: how many ltsp client do you manage?
19:07
<andygraybeal>
TheMatrix3000, oh lik e8
19:07
er 8
19:08
i'm just saying :)
19:08
<TheMatrix3000>
lol
19:08
that isn't bad haha, i don't even know about auctions
19:08
basically our IT dept wins all server costs by using, well on windows its this much, on ubuntu its this
19:08
and they are like damn nice :)
19:08
<andygraybeal>
it's fun.. i'm in the sticks obviously :) so there are a bunch of hicks and metal scrappers to compete with. normally they don't go very high though so it's not bad.
19:08
<TheMatrix3000>
i sitll wish there was a way to add redundancy to ltsp
19:09
yea, you said you were in athens right?
19:09
<andygraybeal>
the cluster adds a bit of redundancy, i believe.
19:09
yea, athens
19:09
OU is the place that has teh auctions every quarter
19:09
<TheMatrix3000>
well in the cluster if a server goes of line it matters which one and any client using that server goes down
19:10
right?
19:10
<andygraybeal>
hey man, i'm getting dsl.. at my new squat. i haven't had dsl in 7 years cause we live out in the boonies.. what kinda dsl modem do your recommend i buy?
19:10
<TheMatrix3000>
now what if the controller went down
19:10
whatever one your provider recommends
19:10
<andygraybeal>
yea, the user goes down.. but they just log back in to the system and keep working.
19:10
<TheMatrix3000>
really?
19:10
<andygraybeal>
our provider told us to go to radio shack and pick one up.. i figure i could do a bit better.
19:11
<TheMatrix3000>
what if the controller system dies
19:11
the ltsp load balancer
19:11
<andygraybeal>
oh the controller system yes.. that's what i've always thought too.. if they could be redundant then i would be comfortable with it.
19:11
<TheMatrix3000>
well im at that point where 90% of our company internally relies on LTSP
19:11
<andygraybeal>
i'm afraid to buy anything from radio shack
19:12
<TheMatrix3000>
if the ltsp server goes down they start thinking about sending people home
19:12
<andygraybeal>
you got redundant power supply, RAID array? backups?
19:12
<TheMatrix3000>
yep
19:12
<andygraybeal>
just buy spares and you should be good... hopefully
19:12
<TheMatrix3000>
actually all user data is raid 10
19:12
the os is raid 1
19:13
lol
19:13
<andygraybeal>
i know what you mean though
19:13
i want the same for my system.
19:13
<TheMatrix3000>
so far i managed
19:13
LTSP + NFS + LDAP
19:13
<andygraybeal>
i want two controllers and two app servers.
19:14
that's bad ass!
19:14
<TheMatrix3000>
coming from just LTSP
19:14
<andygraybeal>
your further along than i am.
19:14
<TheMatrix3000>
well, when i came into the company shit was always broken
19:14
at least now there are days with 0 issues
19:14
those days i feel like i should just go home
19:14
lol
19:14
cause im watching hulu all day
19:15
<andygraybeal>
i decided to start moving away from nagios and go with that nagios fork
19:15
<TheMatrix3000>
which fork
19:15
<andygraybeal>
i just found out about it today
19:15
<TheMatrix3000>
cause im using nagios and love it
19:15
except the administration is a little harder cause theres no gui
19:15
or web interface to make modifications
19:15
<andygraybeal>
nagios is great, but the developer is getting greedy.. so the community forked.
19:15
<TheMatrix3000>
but it tells me what service are up and stuff
19:15
<andygraybeal>
it's called icinga
19:16
<TheMatrix3000>
ah, kinda like Gosa2
19:16
or now the fork is fusiondirectory
19:16
<andygraybeal>
ahthat's right you were talking about that.
19:16
<TheMatrix3000>
ah, damn dude
19:16
icinga looks dope
19:17
looks like a much better web interface
19:17
<andygraybeal>
yea totally., and there are instructions on how to report uptimes that actually make sense. (db + jasperreports + pre-made templates)
19:17
the web interface is still too new for me.. something don't support it yet.. like reports.
19:18
but yes, i'm looking forward to using the web interface when it becomes more stable/supported.
19:18
<TheMatrix3000>
do i still have to use text files to add hosts and stuff
19:18
<andygraybeal>
i think so
19:18
there are things like nconf to help with that.
19:18
<TheMatrix3000>
ah, then ill be sticking with nagios lol
19:18
<andygraybeal>
well it uses the same files
19:19
you just copy your services.cfg and hosts.cfg over.
19:19
the thing for me is i need historical metrics
19:19
so i want to use pnp4nagios :)
19:20
which works with both... but nevermind i'm confused.
19:20
the reporting made sense. their instructions.
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19:23
<TheMatrix3000>
ha we had a new ethernet connection from XO installed yesterday
19:23
take a guess what our speedtest ping was
19:24
<andygraybeal>
i dont' evenknow what XO is
19:24
<TheMatrix3000>
its a carrier for internet
19:24
like Time Warner
19:24
<andygraybeal>
but i don't know ... 100ms
19:24
<TheMatrix3000>
We have Fiber through Time Warner and our Ethernet is from XO
19:24
lol 5ms
19:24
our fiber is 10ms
19:24
our ethernet is 5
19:24
i was rofl
19:24
i was like holy shit
19:24
<andygraybeal>
that is crazy
19:25
<TheMatrix3000>
yea for sure
19:25
i told the CTO, we may have to switch our voip to use our ethernet connection
19:25
<andygraybeal>
i get 51ms from speedtest
19:28
<TheMatrix3000>
one sec i remoted into the office
19:28
here's a screenshot
19:30
http://screencast.com/t/UrMhSGKf2
19:30
its a 5MB ethernet connection from XO
19:30
i did that over rdp
19:30
and its going through a proxy
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19:44
<andygraybeal>
nice :)
19:46
what service did you purchase from them?
19:47
do they provide in athens?!!? eheheh probably not
19:50
TheMatrix3000, why do you think theirs is so fast?
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