IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 November 2007   (all times are UTC)

00:39
<warren>
cyberorg, is aufs upstream?
00:39
cyberorg, or heading upstream?
00:39
<cyberorg>
warren, aufs is the distro kernel module, nothing to do with ltsp upstream
00:40
<warren>
cyberorg, no no, I mean upstream kernel
00:40
<cyberorg>
warren, yeah, it is in kernel upstream kernel :)
00:40
<warren>
oh cool
00:41
<cyberorg>
warren, our kernel guys hate it :P
00:41
they dont want to support unionfs/aufs at all
00:42
<warren>
wait
00:42
I don't see aufs in the upstream kernel
00:43
aufs isn't in the upstream kernel
00:43
I don't know anything about aufs
00:43
but unionfs will never go upstream
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00:44
<cyberorg>
aufs is another unionfs, little better
00:45
<warren>
I know
00:45
but neither looks like will ever hit upstream
00:45
thus your kernel guys hate it
00:45
and I can never use it
00:46
(although... I don't particularly see a need for it)
00:46
<cyberorg>
warren, hmm, right its not in upstream :(
00:46
yeah you can get away with bind mounts
00:46
<warren>
gotta sleep
00:46
ttyl
00:46
<cyberorg>
but having a full rw access to ro squashfs image makes life much easier :) 'night
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02:10
<vagrantc>
well, i managed to figure out how to resolve about 29 out of 50 conflicts for ldm ...
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02:27
<vagrantc>
well, hell. if i pre-emptively remove directories, it seems to work much better.
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02:53
<vagrantc>
well, whew. http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/split/vagrant-ldm-split
02:53
still doesn't build packages, but it's a start
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05:00
<Nubae>
hi there
05:00
Im following the document scott belnaeves (sp) wrote and get to the last step where it says to manually try mounting the device in question in this case a usb thumbdrive
05:00
I get /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted, even though that directory exists
05:01
this is on edubuntu gutsy
05:01
any ideas?
05:03
<cliebow>
Nubae, id think sbalneav will be in this morning...
05:04
<Nubae>
ok... thanks... hes the only one can help me?
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06:12
<sadmin>
hi all
06:14
i am installing ltsp on ubuntu7.10 server
06:14
thinclinet wont get X
06:14
any idea
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06:53
<sgtpepper>
have anyone tried: http://ctflasher.sourceforge.net/
06:53
for making boot roms
06:53
<cliebow__>
ive used the one Jm sells at disklessworkstations
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06:55
<sgtpepper>
the thing is not the price
06:55
is getting it shipped here
06:55
without paying horrid customs fees
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06:58
<sgtpepper>
cliebow__ it looks like a very promising project
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06:59
<cliebow__>
yes it certainly does...
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07:53
<sonjag>
Good morning! Does anyone know where the docs are that describe load balancing with edubuntu? I'm looking for ones written by Francis (don't know the last name) and it's not dhcp load balancing. Those are all the hints that I have! Thanks!
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08:09
<ogra_cmpc>
warren: great blogpost ! :)
08:11
<cliebow__>
sonjag, this help???https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~francis-giraldeau/+roadmap
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08:47
<Q-FUNK>
!g
08:47
<ltspbot>
Q-FUNK: Error: "g" is not a valid command.
08:48
<Q-FUNK>
we need g for Gadi :)
08:48
Gadi: did you have a chance to try the -amd patch that i added to the bug?
08:48
<Gadi>
Q-FUNK: not as of yet
08:49
Im sure it works, if you wrote it ;)
08:49
<Q-FUNK>
:D
08:49
<Gadi>
but, I am a big fan of DDC :)
08:49
<Q-FUNK>
naa, the AMD guys contributed that themselves :)
08:49
I just don't have any Gutsy host to test this against.
08:49
<Gadi>
the amd guys couldnt get it working properly
08:49* Gadi shakes head
08:49
<Gadi>
heaven help us all
08:50
ah, ok
08:50
I will put it in the hopper
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08:50
<Gadi>
won't be today
08:50
Ive got a million things on today's plate
08:50
(and not nearly the necessary appetitie ;) )
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08:53
<sonjag>
cliebow, thanks... I'll look at that. I think it's the right Francis :)
08:53
Gadi, GO ELLIS EAGLES!
08:54
<Gadi>
rofl
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09:10
<cliebow__>
ellsworth eagles???? how do you know that???
09:12
ctoids search --values
09:12
factoids search --values
09:12
ltspbot:factoids search --values
09:12
ltspbot learn g as Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:12
<ltspbot>
cliebow__: The operation succeeded.
09:12
<cliebow__>
g!
09:12
!g
09:12
<ltspbot>
cliebow__: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:13
<Gadi>
coooooool....
09:14* Gadi hugs ltspbot
09:14
<Gadi>
and cliebow
09:21
<^Migs^>
a thin client can use its own peripherals, such as a wacom tablet, right?
09:21
or any USB device?
09:24* sutula suggests s/can/can possibly/ depending on the distro and skill of the installer
09:24
<^Migs^>
this would be on Edubuntu
09:24
with no-skill on the installer :)
09:25
no, I'm sure I'd have to figure a few things out
09:25
<sutula>
^Migs^: I don't have firsthand knowledge there
09:25
<Gadi>
^Migs^: does it work on the server out of the box?
09:25
if so, then you will probably be in luck with the wacom tablet, at least
09:26
<^Migs^>
well, I'm sure if it doesn't, I can get it to work on the server. That means it should work on the thin client though?
09:26
<Gadi>
that means you can get it to work on the client ;)
09:26
<^Migs^>
perfect, thanks
09:26
<Gadi>
through similar steps
09:26
just done within the chroot
09:27
<^Migs^>
I was just afraid there might be some limitation on USB devices working on a thin client
09:27
<Gadi>
^Migs^: no limitation when it comes to input devices (as would beenumerated in Xorg) or devices with filesystems (for removable media)
09:28
things that may not work are like buring a DVD on a local USB dvd burner
09:28
<sutula>
Gadi: When I got a Wacom working under Debian, some of the changes involved mods to Xorg.conf...will that be feasible for ^Migs^ in the client?
09:28
<Gadi>
as that requires the application to have direct access to the dvd block device on the client
09:29
sutula: in ubuntu they are usually there by default, but if he needs to, he can always specify that the thin client use a custom Xorg.conf that he creates
09:29
<^Migs^>
I can do anything to the clients within their capacity
09:29
I'm trying to design a setup for a bunch of school classrooms
09:30
<sutula>
Gadi: What's the principle for getting stuff like USB keychains working in clients?
09:30
<Gadi>
LOCALDEV=True in lts.conf and ltspfs installed on the server
09:30
<^Migs^>
that's something else I was wondering. USB drives. I'd like those to work, too.
09:31
<Gadi>
oh, and adding the users to the 'fues' group on the server
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09:31
<Gadi>
er, fuse
09:31
at least in Ubuntu
09:31
<^Migs^>
what's the fuse group for?
09:31
<Gadi>
ltspfs uses FUSE to do its magic
09:31
in Ubuntu only users within the fuse group can use FUSE
09:31
<sutula>
^Migs^: I saw an Ubuntu howto on client USB drives
09:31
<Gadi>
as a security (and sometimes annoyingly so) feature
09:31
:)
09:31
<sutula>
^Migs^: It included debugging steps
09:32
<^Migs^>
thanks. I'll look into it more.
09:32
<Gadi>
^Migs^: just do those 3 steps and it should "just work"
09:32
and in Edubuntu, you may only need to add the users to fuse
09:32
not sure
09:33
Edubuntu sets up a lot of LTSP stuff by default
09:33
<^Migs^>
Something else I'm wondering. I saw this mentioned on this page here: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT9205765137.html where they propose that if you want to set up Windows apps but still keep your thin clients, you can just use rdesktop to load up a Windows terminal server instance WITHIN the thin client.
09:33
Would that be a ridiculous and unrealistic load on the server?
09:33
<Gadi>
doesnt load the server at all
09:33
<^Migs^>
I put the specs together for a 2.4Ghz quad-core, 4GB RAM server
09:33
<Gadi>
rdesktop just displays images
09:33
the muscle is on the Windows terminal server
09:33
<^Migs^>
and I might have 50 thin client users at the most logged into that Win term server
09:33
okay
09:33
nice
09:34
<Gadi>
its not like a virtual machine
09:34
the Linux server doesnt actually run Windows
09:34
just connects to it
09:34
<sutula>
^Migs^: I have something similar working at home, but with 2-3 users
09:34
<^Migs^>
ok
09:34
<Gadi>
analogous to the thin client connecting to the Linux server
09:34* sutula hates having to run any Windows software
09:35
<^Migs^>
I don't mind Windows software, but not when it's completely unnecessary
09:35* sutula hopes one day it is completely unnecessary
09:35
<^Migs^>
and I'd like to see the students in this school have at least an exposure to Linux. Just using it gives them a technical edge.
09:36
I don't agree with that.
09:36* sutula shrugs
09:36
<^Migs^>
What I do hope is that one day people will stop thinking Windows IS necessary
09:36
not quite the same thing :)
09:37
<sutula>
^Migs^: Anyway, it can work (LTSP to W2K server), including sound
09:37
<Gadi>
^Migs^: recent rdesktop support "seemless Windows" with a small install on the WTS box. allows you to run individual apps and have them appear within a regular Linux window decoration (so users don't even realize)
09:38
<sutula>
Gadi: Pointer?
09:38
<Gadi>
www.rdesktop.org
09:38
:)
09:38
<sutula>
thansk
09:38
<^Migs^>
wow
09:38
that's exactly what I want
09:39
so I could just stick, e.g., an "Adobe Photoshop CS" icon on my Ubuntu desktop?
09:39
<Gadi>
takes a little tinkering to get "single signon" so they dont get prompted for the Windows password
09:39
but the devil is always in the details, no?
09:44
<warren>
Gadi, found an old evaluation board of AMD Geode NX. X doesn't work here either.
09:44
neither does PXE...
09:44
<Gadi>
warren: WOOHOO!
09:44
:)
09:45
my world's on fire, how 'bout yours?
09:45
<warren>
Gadi, OLPC has LX, but no PXE (and no ethernet)
09:47
Gadi, what is your website for selling thin client hardware?
09:47
Gadi, (I want to read your specs)
09:47
<Gadi>
ah
09:47
I can point you to the amd-basedd specs
09:47
for the current unit
09:47
er, i should say
09:47
the specs for the current unit
09:47
that is amd based
09:47
yeah...
09:48
http://www.thesymbiont.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=80&Itemid=109
09:48
its the top one
09:48
the lil white guy
09:48
SYM1110
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09:50
<Gadi>
gotta run- mtg
09:50
bbiab
09:51
<warren>
Gadi, is that GX or LX?
09:52
<Gadi>
gx
09:52
we have an lx under development
09:52
for Q1 release
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09:59
<Q-FUNK>
does the Feisty CD have an OEM mode or a server-install mode that I can use to install just the basic and immediately dist-upgrade to Gutsy?
10:03
<warren>
Gadi, it seems that NX is Athlon-based, entirely different. Also this being a really early evaluation board, it barely works at all. I need some actual working LX hardware here.
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10:06
<Q-FUNK>
NX is not even Geode technology
10:06
it indeed is Athlon.
10:06
I really don't know what got into their head to call this a Geode.
10:07
<warren>
oh
10:07
thincan has onboard flash
10:07
what for?
10:08
<Q-FUNK>
it can boot small embedded OS
10:09
<warren>
that's enough flash to put your kernel and initrd
10:09
<Q-FUNK>
it works well as an embedded controller, booting with LinuxBIOS with a small compressed JFFS2 image in NAND
10:10
<warren>
oh
10:10
you need to access it through mtd?
10:10
(not a block device)
10:10
<Q-FUNK>
and then some more: JFFS2 is compressed, so the basic 64MB NAND essentially gives you almost twice that, something close to 120MB.
10:10
yes, mtd
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10:28
<Blinny>
Woah. Ubuntu uses runlevel 2 by default. I'm just realizing this after banging my head into the wall trying to figure out why gdm wasn't starting in runlevel 5.
10:31
<warren>
Can someone point me to a bzr repo of Ubuntu's mkinitramfss?
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10:36
<Q-FUNK>
Blinny: :D
10:36
<Blinny>
Q-FUNK: I'm not a smart man.
10:37
but I'll get there. :P
10:37
<warren>
Hmm...
10:37
<Q-FUNK>
awwwww
10:37
<warren>
we're never going to use udev in our initrd
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10:42
<rjune>
Blinny: it would have been a hell of a lot easier to figure that out if ubuntu had /etc/inittab, eh?
10:43
<sonjag>
Hi all - cliebow sent me a link to Francis Giraldeau's roadmap. I followed LDM Load Balancing, which is what I think sbalneav was suggesting I try instead of dhcp load balancing, but came to a dead end and couldn't find instructions on how to implement. Anyone have any ideas on this?
10:43
<rjune>
Gadi !
10:43
<Blinny>
rjune: No doubt.
10:43
rjune: All I found inittab wise was a migration perl script.
10:44
<rjune>
neat
10:44
<Blinny>
Neat, and useless.
10:45
(for my limited purposes)
10:52
<moquist>
sonjag: add francis' PPA to your sources.list and install his packages from there.
10:52
sonjag: do this in a test environment first!
10:53
<sonjag>
moquist, thanks-- I would but I'm not sure where his PPA is or what packages he has. Can you point me to a website that has the info? Or can you tell me?
10:56
<moquist>
sonjag: http://www.google.com/search?q=francis+ppa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
10:56
:)
10:58
<sonjag>
moquist, awesome, but are there directions on how to use it once installed?
10:58* moquist suspects not yet
10:58
<moquist>
but check /usr/share/doc/<package-name>/ after you install it
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11:01
<sonjag>
moquist, so, I don't really have a test environment anymore... I made Borg my home folder server. When are you testing this? I'm starting to get more worried if (a) there's no doc and (b) no one I know running it! (and (c) I'm finally not crashing daily!)
11:01
<moquist>
Sounds to me like a good time to let your friends try it out first. :)
11:03
<sonjag>
heh... kinda saw right through that, eh? are you running dhcp load balancing? That's my only other solution right now, unless I physically separate my network using switches. I hate doing that.
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12:10
<scrapbunny>
could someone tell me if xfce runs better on clients then gnome? I did a prerelese update and have xfce now and want to know which is better. I am using edubuntu 7.10 with ltsp 5
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12:13
<vagrantc>
scrapbunny: "runs better" ?
12:14
scrapbunny: it uses less memory on the server, and there's an option to get improved performance while moving windows around ...
12:15
but it also lacks some bells and whistles.
12:15
so depends on what you mean by "better"
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12:17
<mhterres>
hello
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12:17
<scrapbunny>
my main need is speed and that programs with open and close without freezing. not sure if gnome or xfce have an effect on that though
12:20
i am having issues with programs freezing when students try to exit and found the suggestion to run an update with pre-released updates
12:21
<mhterres>
what programs ?
12:21
<scrapbunny>
tux paint, tux math and firefox
12:22
i only have 11 clients running and plan on having 32 total
12:23
<mhterres>
strange
12:24
is the thin client freezing ?
12:24
<Blinny>
tuxpaint is a resource HOG. Firefox ain't much better
12:24
<mhterres>
prefer firefox 1.5
12:24
instead of 2.0
12:25
<scrapbunny>
the client will let me keep working, the program window just won't close
12:25
<mhterres>
hmm
12:25
weird
12:25
<scrapbunny>
glad it is not just m that thinks so :)
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12:26
<mhterres>
and how about your hardware ? how many memory do you have ?
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12:33
<scrapbunny>
the server is a dell power edge 1750 with 3 g memory
12:34
<mhterres>
oh, great hw
12:34
certainly it is not the question
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12:36
<mhterres>
we have servers with 8Gb serving about 50/70 users
12:36
each
12:37
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, when you first began trying nbd, did you run into problems where the OS tries to read from /dev/nbd[0-32] during bootup as it looks for RAID or LVM devices?
12:37
ogra_cmpc, did you have to add blacklisting?
12:40
<scrapbunny>
of course right now I can't get anything to freeze so I will try out xfce for a while and see how things go :)
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12:52
<mhterres>
are you using KDE ?
12:52
we have LTSP implemented with Gnome without problems, and now we are trying XFCE, using Xubuntu in the server
12:53
in another implementation
12:53
and I know cases of LTSP with KDE working fine too
12:58
<dniel>
vagrantc: he! hi!
12:59
vagrantc: tanto tiempo .... a long time :)
12:59
<scrapbunny>
so far the only problem i have had with xfce it that the edges of the tux paint window look weird
12:59
<dniel>
:)
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13:01
<scrapbunny>
on gnome firefox seemed a lot slower and i had the freezing issue. i figure i will try xfce since i can't run most of the gnome eyecandy on thin client anyway
13:01
<mhterres>
hmmm
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13:02
<mhterres>
we need to use 24 color depth in LTSP to Firefox works
13:02
<scrapbunny>
i will say that it took me a while to figure out panels in xfce and i wish there was a way to set up a default panel for all users
13:02
<mhterres>
When we set to 16 bits, we got problems with it
13:02
<scrapbunny>
this is with firefox 1.5 or 2?
13:02
<mhterres>
yes, in /etc/xdg you can do the default configs
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13:02
<mhterres>
both versions
13:05
<scrapbunny>
to get my dell gx 110's to work as clients i had to set them at 24bit so i think that is ok
13:06
<mhterres>
hmmm
13:08* vagrantc contemplates making 24 the default for debian
13:08
<vagrantc>
it looks better, and sounds like in some cases even works better
13:09
<scrapbunny>
to make the default panel do i need to change etc/xdg/menu or something else?
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13:10
<mhterres>
I don't remember now
13:10
look for /etc/xdg/xfce4
13:11
or something like that
13:11
<scrapbunny>
found that and see panel
13:11
<mhterres>
but users can change their panel
13:11
so if you don't want they change menu and other things take a look in kiosk mode for xfce
13:12
<scrapbunny>
that would be fine i just don't want to set up 600 panels :)
13:12
<mhterres>
hehehe
13:14
<scrapbunny>
i'll go look at kiosk mode. I'm trying to decide how to best set up user accounts since i hav 600+ students in 26 classes
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13:15
<mhterres>
kioski mode in xfce is very simples, but you have just a few settings
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13:15
<mhterres>
anyway, is an option
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13:17
<mhterres>
http://www.xfce.org/documentation/4.2/manuals/xfce4-session
13:17
<scrapbunny>
thanks
13:19
<mhterres>
:-)
13:20
we are here to help
13:25
<nubae>
hey, can anyone help me with local devices on ltsp 5 (edubuntu 7.10)
13:26
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev -- I have been through this thorougly and can get to the last step
13:26
the ssh ltspfsmounter issues a /tmp/.username-ltspfs/tmp directory not mounted
13:27
local devices however show up, as I can see them in the thin client under /tmp/.username-ltspfs/
13:27
just dont mount, and cant manually mount either
13:31
<vagrantc>
nubae: are they in /media/username ?
13:32
<nubae>
no
13:32
I can access the device from the server directly
13:32
but not on any thin client
13:33
on the server it pops up at /media/<name of device>
13:33
<vagrantc>
oh
13:33
that's how it's supposed to work ...
13:33
or soemthing like that
13:33
thin clients shouldn't have access to the server's devices
13:34
local device support is to give the server access to the thin-client's devices
13:34
<nubae>
hmmm... yes I know... what I mean is... thin clients have no local device showing up
13:34
ie... I plugin a thumbdrive into local device
13:34
it should show up
13:34
<vagrantc>
running gnome ?
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13:34
<nubae>
yes
13:35
I followed this document, which is pretty thorough debugging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
13:35
<vagrantc>
so just to be clear, on the server /tmp/.username-ltsp/ shows the devices, but nothing in /media/username ?
13:35
<nubae>
yes
13:35
correct
13:36bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:36
<gbolte>
hey guys I am running ltsp5 on opensuse 10.3, and I have client computers with Nvidia geforce 6150 graphic cards...I have got the binary nvidia drivers installed in my nfs chroot for the clients...and I was wondering if there was anything special I have to do to get compiz fusion working
13:37bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:39
<aep>
compiz on terminals? wicked
13:39
<gbolte>
aye
13:39
<aep>
didnt even knows there are terminals capable of that
13:39
<vagrantc>
nubae: hmmm... not sure what to try next
13:39
<nubae>
:-(
13:40
<gbolte>
lol
13:40
<nubae>
perhaps sbalneaves can help?
13:40
<aep>
gbolte: if possible try running compiz localy, to avoid the doublebuffer beeing synced over network
13:41
that might be slow
13:41
<gbolte>
aep I dont know how I would go about running it local
13:41tosky has joined #ltsp
13:41
<aep>
just put it in the nfs root
13:41
<mhterres>
gbolte: Maybe if you install compiz inside the LTSP chroot, it could work locally
13:42
<gbolte>
hmm but how would it get executed
13:42
<mhterres>
aep: I think he is using nbd, instead of nfs
13:42
unless he has changed that
13:42
<aep>
ow. err what's that? :D
13:42
<gbolte>
er executed and then be able to change settings and stuff
13:42bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:42
<aep>
gbolte: init script. ssh. whatever suits you
13:42
<gbolte>
no I am using NFS
13:43
<mhterres>
oh yes, put inside the ltsp chroor will not work
13:43
<aep>
maybe ssh is the easiest way
13:43
<gbolte>
hmm
13:44
well I have got it to work some of the time...but its so hit and miss right now I cant figure out what is the problem...but when it dose work it works awesome
13:44
and thats with running it off the server
13:44
heh
13:45bobby_C has quit IRC
13:45
<gbolte>
compiz always starts...just most of the time when it dose it is unusably slow like no acceleration is happening
13:45
<warren>
hmm
13:45
<aep>
sure. no Composite over network
13:46
<warren>
vagrantc, Debian uses /etc/ltsp?
13:46
<gbolte>
but when it starts and works correct it is lightning fast
13:46
<vagrantc>
warren: for ?
13:46
<mhterres>
gbolte: but are you running it locally ?
13:46bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:46
<warren>
vagrantc, for some reason Eric Harrison chose /etc/ltsp5/
13:46
<mhterres>
cause LTSP does a X query to the server
13:46
<warren>
vagrantc, /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf for example
13:46
<mhterres>
and this will be very slow
13:46
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren: i dont think they do
13:46
<vagrantc>
warren: ah, yes, /etc/ltsp for that stuff
13:46
<gbolte>
no I was running it off the server
13:46
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, who is they?
13:46
<tosky>
hi, I have a silly question (sorry for that :) but I wasn't able to understand it from the documentation: how can I use LTSP with "fat" clients (with a complete system running)?
13:47
<aep>
tosky: easy. Xorg -query myltsserver
13:47
or Xnest
13:47
to run it in a window
13:47
<vagrantc>
warren: there isn't much in there by default, but many of the scripts look for configuration files there
13:47
<ogra_cmpc_>
ubuntu uses it for overriding setups i.e. dhcpd and syslog without fiddling with existing configs
13:47
<warren>
vagrantc, which makes me wonder if Eric's choice of /etc/ltsp5 will complicate merging with you
13:47
<vagrantc>
aep: i don't think that's what tosky was asking about
13:48
<aep>
vagrantc: oh.
13:48
<vagrantc>
warren: yes
13:48
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, uses what?
13:48
<ogra_cmpc_>
so an admin can just delete our file in /etc/ltsp to switch over to his 2000 line custom dhcpd.conf in /etcd/dhcpd
13:48
warren: wht does he use /etc/ltsp5 ?
13:48
warren: /etc/ltsp
13:48
<warren>
ogra_cmpc_, /etc/ltsp5 instead of /etc/ltsp
13:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
yeah, i understand ...
13:49
<vagrantc>
we've (so far) stuck with the client-side /etc/lts.conf
13:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
but whats the reason for making it different
13:49
<vagrantc>
it really tests the strength of distributed revision control? :)
13:50* ogra_cmpc_ wonders as well how we shall commit to the www.ltsp.org branches, i thought we all agreed on using ltsp-drivers on LP
13:50
<nubae>
is LOCAL_STORAGE=Y still used in LTSP 5?
13:50
<gbolte>
so has anyone here gotten compiz to work on ltsp reliably?
13:50
<ogra_cmpc_>
which gives us ACL etc
13:50
<nubae>
perhaps this could have something to do with why my local devs arent working?
13:51
gbolte... I've tried without success
13:51
on fglrx based graphics cards
13:51
<gbolte>
nubae, so you were having to try XGL
13:51Blinny has quit IRC
13:51
<nubae>
no
13:51
<gbolte>
:/
13:51
hu
13:51
<nubae>
new fglrx uses aiglx
13:51
<gbolte>
oh
13:51
ok
13:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren: its also wrong that we discuss the development on IRC only (referring to your blog) we have tons of blueprints in launchpad we created during teh developer conferences defining exactly what we implement
13:52
<gbolte>
nubae, what did you have issues with
13:52
<tosky>
My problem is: I installed the ltsp-server stuffs on a server, and I have 10 clients with a complete system on it; all the documentation I found made the assumption that the client must start through BOOP+DHCP
13:52
<nubae>
everything runs great... 3d works
13:52Guaraldo has quit IRC
13:52
<nubae>
but no compiz
13:52
<gbolte>
hmm
13:53
yeah thats what I am getting, but sometimes compiz dose work
13:53
<vagrantc>
tosky: complete system, as in hard drive?
13:53
<gbolte>
:/
13:53
<nubae>
says cant enable advanced graphics properties
13:53
I forget what option it is...
13:53
<gbolte>
nubae, when dose it say that
13:53
<tosky>
vagrantc: yes
13:53
<vagrantc>
tosky: then it's not really LTSP
13:53
tosky: 99% of the point of LTSP is to not use a hard drive
13:54fernando1 has quit IRC
13:54
<nubae>
well, for me its desktop effects I guess
13:54
or whatever the equivilant is on gutsy
13:54
<gbolte>
oh...I have been using the command line
13:54
<nubae>
well, thats an idea...
13:54
<tosky>
vagrantc: ok, but ltsp has it advantages (make easier to access local devices, some configuration utilities, ...)
13:54
<gbolte>
compiz --replace --sm-disable --ignore-desktop-hints ccp
13:54
<nubae>
still, trying to run compiz-manager from terminal doesnt work either
13:54
<aep>
tosky: as i sayd earlier you can just query the remote X
13:54
<nubae>
ok, and that works?
13:55
<gbolte>
nubae, sometimes yes most of the time no
13:55
haha
13:55
<vagrantc>
tosky: the point of LTSP is to share the root filesystem between multiple computers to reduce maintenance of lots of systems.
13:56
tosky: if you want to use software developed for LTSP in other environments, go ahead. but it's designed to be used for an LTSP environment.
13:56
<gbolte>
nubae, I mean it ALWAYS starts compiz...just most of the time its soooo slow that its unusable
13:56
<nubae>
ok... you using Gutsy?=
13:56Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
13:56
<gbolte>
nubae, opensuse 10.3
13:56RichEd has joined #ltsp
13:57
<nubae>
right... and ltsp 5
13:57
?
13:57
<gbolte>
yup
13:57
<nubae>
well, should be pretty much the same I guess
13:57
<gbolte>
in theory
13:57
<nubae>
maybe turn off X encryption
13:58fernando1 has joined #ltsp
13:58
<gbolte>
I dont think I have that on
13:58
<nubae>
think its on by default... at least was...
13:59Guaraldo has left #ltsp
14:00
<tosky>
vagrantc: thank you for the explanations :)
14:04
<gbolte>
http://wtogami.livejournal.com/20047.html
14:04
Warren booted Eric's Intel 950 video laptop as a thin client. compiz running on Warren's laptop worked on Eric's laptop with spinning cube and wobbly windows with seemingly no performance impact. compiz used less than 1% of CPU on Warren's laptop. Pretty cool.
14:04
I guess its been done
14:04
<^Migs^>
tell me if this is a stupid idea
14:04
<gbolte>
but I just cant get it figure it out
14:04
er
14:04
I just cant figure it out
14:04
<^Migs^>
I want to run some 3d applications, like Celestia or Alice. If I ran it off an LTSP server, the thin clients would need a 3d card, at least to enhance their performance when they use it
14:05
what if I ran a Windows Terminal Server off the LTSP server off the thin clients. Would the thin clients still need a graphics card?
14:05
<gbolte>
^Migs^, I am trying to get compiz fusion to work on my clients
14:05
:P
14:05
<warren>
^Migs^, it would be entirely software rendered on the server (slow)
14:05
<^Migs^>
what if the LTSP and Win Term Server each had a powerful 3d card, but the thin clients, didn't?
14:06
<warren>
server's 3D card is irrelevant
14:06
<^Migs^>
so it's all up to the thin clients then, even if it runs through two terminal servers to get there
14:06
<warren>
Windows Terminal Server -> thin clients can't do 3D hardware accel
14:06ogra has joined #ltsp
14:06
<warren>
It only works with remote X because of X's client/server architecture
14:07
<^Migs^>
it's actually WTS->LTSP->thin clients
14:07
what about just LTSP->thin clients. Each thin client would need a 3d hardware accelerator, right?
14:07
and obviously a highspeed gigabit connection
14:07
<scrapbunny>
woohoo got my default panel set up on all users! now i just have to try to bulk add my student users
14:07
<^Migs^>
guess the "highspeed" was redundant
14:08
<ogra>
^Migs^, for GL ?
14:08
sorry just re-joined
14:08
<warren>
^Migs^, LTSP-> thin clients (3D hardware) is surprisingly low CPU usage on the server
14:08
<ogra>
using GL stuff actually lowers the network traffic
14:08
<warren>
^Migs^, and surprisingly low bandwidth
14:09
^Migs^, Eric was spinning the cube on his desktop constantly, and bandwidth through my ethernet was about 150KB/sec
14:09
<^Migs^>
ideally, I don't want to have to buy 3d hardware for any of my thin clients. But I might have up to 60 users at once using something like Celestia (http://www.shatters.net/celestia)
14:09
<warren>
^Migs^, without 3D acceleration, your server will be bogged down by only one or two users using Celestia.
14:09
^Migs^, entirely server-side software rendering
14:10
<^Migs^>
okay
14:10
crap
14:10
<warren>
and I don't know how heavy it would be on the server even with 3D accel
14:10
compiz made the load on the server VERY low because the server wasn't doing ANYTHING to spin the cube
14:10
most of that was on the client
14:10* gbolte trys celestia
14:10
<gbolte>
:D
14:10
<warren>
celestia might be heavy
14:10
<gbolte>
<---on a kiosk right now
14:12
<nubae>
I'm seeing on the edubuntu archive lists that the local device problem has been seen before by other users, but was never resolved
14:12
<gbolte>
this aught to be fun
14:12
:D
14:13
^Migs^, just out of curiosity what kinda hardware dose your server have
14:13
<ogra>
nubae, can you provide a link to the archived mail you refer to ?
14:15
<^Migs^>
haven't set it up yet, still trying to design a classroom thin client system. The specs on the LTSP server would be a 2.4GHz quad-core, 4GB RAM (upgradeable to 8GB)
14:15
<gbolte>
ah
14:15
for how many users
14:15
<^Migs^>
450 max students in the entire school. I don't think more than 80 users would be connecting simultaneously, and even that's a very high estimate
14:16
<gbolte>
wow
14:16
<^Migs^>
worst case scenario, maybe 120 students at the same time
14:16
<gbolte>
yeah I think the server we have here may be a bit overkill for 30 users
14:16
<nubae>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-September/001838.html
14:16
<^Migs^>
worst case scenario for Celestia, maybe 40 users at the same time
14:16
okay, what IS fuse?
14:17
<ogra>
^Migs^, 4G is way to less for 80 users
14:17
<nubae>
in any case, I've sent my findings to the list, its pretty much a copy of that problem...
14:17
<^Migs^>
okay, so we need to bump it up to 8GB?
14:17
<ogra>
count 128M for each connected user plus 256M for the server to run
14:17
<^Migs^>
either that, or get a second server, which I'd be fine with too
14:17
<ogra>
at leat if you use a decent desktop like gnome or KDE
14:17
<nubae>
everything in the debug local devs works out, except last option
14:17
<^Migs^>
that's what I was afraid of
14:17
<ogra>
xfce might lower that by 10-20M
14:17
<^Migs^>
I set up a simple thin client on a server with only 256MB RAM. It was dirt-slow.
14:18
<gbolte>
heh our server here that we built for 30 users is a 8 core 3 GHz Xeon with 8GB ram and 1TB HDD
14:18
<ogra>
^Migs^, well, the desktop is what adds the weight here
14:18
<^Migs^>
and does it ever run slow, gbolte
14:18
<ogra>
(and the apps indeed ...)
14:19
<gbolte>
^Migs^, its not in production yet
14:19
:)
14:19
still working out bugs
14:19
<nubae>
I run 8 gigs on a 64 bit system with 65 clients... even with most running crossover and ms office, there are no problems
14:19
<^Migs^>
does anyone have a thin client system they're using?
14:20
and coudl share some specs
14:20
what sort of processor, nubae?
14:20
is that LTSP or Win Term?
14:20
<nubae>
32 bit to 64 bit really makes a difference
14:20
ltsp... its a xeon dual 3 ghz
14:21
there were issues on 32 bit when running crossover... now there are no problems...
14:22
<^Migs^>
a Xeon 64-bit?
14:22
isn't AMD only 64-bit?
14:22
<gbolte>
no
14:22
amd is 32 and 64
14:23
<^Migs^>
er, never mind
14:23mikkel has quit IRC
14:23
<ogra>
nubae, are you logged in via ldm while you try the command from the debug page ?
14:23
<nubae>
yes
14:24
<ogra>
and the user is in the fuse group ?
14:24ogra_cmpc_ has quit IRC
14:24
<nubae>
I see all the devices under /tmp/.username-ltspfs/
14:24
yes, all the steps in the debug document have been verified
14:24
it all works out except the last step
14:25
<ogra>
you mean you see /tmp/.username-ltspfs/ on the server ?
14:25
<nubae>
yeah
14:25
<ogra>
then its mounted
14:25
<nubae>
well, doesnt show anything inside those files
14:25
<^Migs^>
okay, I'm going to go back and start bumping up the specs on our LTSP server then
14:25
<ogra>
do you see any content in there ?
14:25
<nubae>
no
14:26
<ogra>
(note that only the owner can actually look inside there (fuse restricts that)
14:26
i.e. not even root
14:26
make sure you are logged in as the user
14:26
<nubae>
then I'm not 100% sure...
14:26
<ogra>
(on the server side)
14:26
<nubae>
however... I dont think so since all the files are empty
14:26
<ogra>
also check the mount command
14:27
you should see two mounts per device ...
14:27
one in /tmp and another that bind mounts it over to /media
14:27
<nubae>
ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" is what I do
14:27
well... dont see the /media one
14:27
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, i really ought to fix that issue
14:27
<ogra>
vagrantc, which issue ?
14:28
<vagrantc>
ogra: the mounting things twice issue
14:28
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, either you have to have everything suid root or you bind mount ...
14:28
<vagrantc>
ogra: we've been over this before but...
14:29
<ogra>
if i find the time during hardy development that will be moot anyway
14:29
hal will care
14:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: currently we do two things as root: we create /media/USERNAME and we bind mount /tmp/.usernale-ltspfs/ to /media/USERNAME
14:29
<ogra>
wrong
14:29
err
14:29
sorry, right
14:29
<vagrantc>
i propose to drop the bind-mounting bit
14:29
<nubae>
the result of that is unable to mount: /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/tmp/ directory not mounted.
14:29
<vagrantc>
and mount directly into /media/USERNAME
14:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, that means that ltspfs must be suid
14:30
instead of the ten lines big lbmount
14:30
<vagrantc>
ogra: like i said, i'll work on fixing it
14:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, why not fix it
14:30
instead of working around it again
14:30
<vagrantc>
that's what i intend to do
14:30
<ogra>
no
14:31
the fix is to let hal do the work so every desktop environment can use its preferred mount mechanism
14:31
just triggered by hal
14:32
<vagrantc>
i like that too, but i see a way to improve upon what we have now, and there's something nice about the simplicity of it.
14:32
<ogra>
i'll put my ltspfs-hal branch up if i'm home again
14:32
vagrantc, apart from the fact that it only works properly in gnome
14:33
<vagrantc>
pfft.
14:33
<nubae>
so... concerning my local dev thing... any ideas?
14:34
where does this happen: we create /media/USERNAME and we bind mount /tmp/.usernale-ltspfs/ to /media/USERNAME
14:35
<ogra>
ltspfsmounter calls lbmount to do that
14:36
mount shows you the /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/ dir ?
14:36
mounted as fuse fs ?
14:37
<vagrantc>
pwd
14:37
<ogra>
/
14:38
nubae, try: ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter cleanup"
14:38* vagrantc fails to read ltspfs code
14:38
<ogra>
and then try the mount again
14:39
nubae, also make sure that both sides of ltspfs have the same version ...
14:40
and note that gutsys version actually also requires gutsys ldm (added security bits that are not in feisty and will block the mount)
14:40
<vagrantc>
ogra: lbmount is the setuid part, right ?
14:41
<ogra>
right
14:41
<vagrantc>
that's 300 some lines (including comments)
14:41
<nubae>
ogra, I have modified the chroot, perhaps this updated ltspfs version?
14:41
well... it all worked under feisty, its only under gutsy that it doesnt work
14:42prpplague has joined #ltsp
14:42
<ogra>
nubae, as long as the chroot was built under gutsy all should be fine
14:42
what did you modify ?
14:43
<nubae>
well, fglrx
14:43
and have 2 chroots
14:43
but either way, usb devices doesnt work under either
14:44
I'm not at the server now, so I'll have to check tomorrow with the cleanup command, and see what happens
14:44
and check ltspfs versions
14:45
<ogra>
well, we usually dont update versions after we released in ubuntu
14:45
only security fixes go in ... and there were no security isses with gutsys ltspfs yet
14:46
<nubae>
hmm... well its certainly odd... devices show up in tmp, but they dont end up mounted in /media/username
14:47
<ogra>
well, the question is if they are actually mounted
14:47
the mountpoint exisiting doesnt mean there is something mounted
14:47
<nubae>
well, they show up
14:47Gadi has left #ltsp
14:47
<nubae>
ok...
14:47
<ogra>
we really need th exact output of /proc/mounts or the mount comand
14:48
<nubae>
ok, from a altcntrol+f1?
14:48
<ogra>
on the server, yes
14:49
<nubae>
wait... I understood do this from a ldm login
14:50
<vagrantc>
once you're logged in via ldm, you are on the server
14:50
<nubae>
ok semantics... :-)
14:50
<ogra>
i asked in the beginning if you see /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/ on the server
14:50
:)
14:50
<nubae>
I do yes
14:50
<ogra>
right, issue the command there
14:51
do: cat /proc/mounts |grep sysadmin-ltspfs in a terminal
14:51
<nubae>
ok, gotcha... then not from alt+cntrl+f1 (its not quite clear in the debuglocaldev doc)
14:51
<ogra>
see if it returns a line
14:51
<^Migs^>
what's the advantage of using fuse?
14:51
<ogra>
^Migs^, there is no advantage ... its the only way to mount stuff in userspace ...
14:51
<nubae>
ok, thanks, will try tomorrow and send results
14:51
<vagrantc>
ogra: i think, to skip the whole concept of mounting the stuff in /tmp ... all we have to do is switch the order of the ltspfs mount and calling lbmount ... then lbmount could handle only the creation of /media/USERNAME
14:52
<^Migs^>
I don't understand what it even is
14:52
oh
14:52
so each logged-in user can have their own userspace.
14:52
<vagrantc>
ogra: rather than creating /media/USERNAME and bind-mounting something from /tmp
14:52
<ogra>
fuse == "File System in User Space"
14:53
vagrantc, hmm, thats an intresting tought
14:53
<vagrantc>
ogra: i've been thinking it for ages :P
14:53
ogra: and meeting resistance all the way
14:53
<ogra>
you just never let it over your lips :)
14:53
i'm not sure it will work though
14:53
<^Migs^>
so when a user logs in, they will ONLY see their own userspace?
14:53
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, i've just now sat down and tried to look at the code
14:54
<^Migs^>
and can save and load files from there, etc.?
14:54
<ogra>
i know there were more reasons to do it that way
14:54
<^Migs^>
kind of like a Samba share, or Windows domain?
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14:54
<vagrantc>
ogra: i mean, i've looked before ... but it's not a simple interaction
14:54
<jammcq>
hey kidz
14:54
<ogra>
^Migs^, no
14:54
<^Migs^>
hai2u jammcq
14:54
<moquist>
jammcq: yo
14:54
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, i'd really like to know what those reasons are ...
14:55
<ogra>
vagrantc, try your attemt, if it works we can use it ...
14:55
i just remember we did it that way to work around several probs ... one was the suid stuff ... the others i dont remember anymore
14:56
so you might run into them and i'll say "aah right, now i remember again ..." ;)
14:56
<vagrantc>
the only issue i can think of, being my single brain, is that you might end up with a situation where you create /media/USERNAME and then the fuse mount fails ...
14:57Q-FUNK has quit IRC
14:58
<ogra>
vagrantc, i tink there was a prob with the access rights but i'm not tsure anymore
14:58Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:58* vagrantc attempts to wade through the lbmount code to strip out the bind mounting bits
14:59* vagrantc has only ever written "hello, world" in C
14:59
<ogra>
something like the user needs to have full RW access to the whole path or so to do the fuse mount ...
14:59
<vagrantc>
ah, that's probably true
15:00
<ogra>
i'm not sure though
15:00
try it
15:00
<vagrantc>
this may be beyond my abilities
15:00
<ogra>
probably scottie would remember ... but he's missing it seems
15:01
old ltspfs did it the same way ... but then linked the dir to ~/Desktop
15:01
<vagrantc>
maybe mount --move would work as a simple alternative
15:01
<ogra>
not sure fuse likes that ... try it out :)
15:01
might be its resistant to moving
15:02
<vagrantc>
hmmm...
15:02
<ogra>
i'm also not sure what ltspfs says ...
15:03
due to its nature to actually have the device unmounted all the time apart during rw actions you might confuse it by moving
15:03
i.e. if the move happens between two mount/umount processes on the client
15:04
<vagrantc>
well, the code could be modified to only use tmpfs for the initial mount, and later use the relocated mount for all other operations
15:05
or ... make /media/USERNAME owned by USERNAME ...
15:05
<nubae>
so local_storage=y is no longer used?
15:05
<vagrantc>
then no more --bind or --move mounting
15:05
<nubae>
saw that somewhere in the archives but guess its ltsp 4
15:06
<ogra>
nubae, i think vagrantc added some compatibility code for that just recently
15:06
<nubae>
so I could try that
15:06
?
15:06
<ogra>
but we usually use LOCALDEV=True nowadays
15:06
<nubae>
its the same?
15:06
<vagrantc>
nubae: it's not going to work any better
15:07
<ogra>
nah
15:07
<nubae>
:-) grasping at straws
15:07* ogra has to go to some team event now ...
15:07
<vagrantc>
all it does is set LOCALDEV=$LOCAL_STORAGE
15:07
<ogra>
right
15:07
<nubae>
how about file permissions /media/USERNAME
15:07
is that owned by root?
15:07
<vagrantc>
should be
15:07* ogra waves ...
15:08
<nubae>
bye
15:08
and thankyou
15:08* vagrantc waves to ogra
15:08
<ogra>
vagrantc, btw, i drove to portland on the weekend :)
15:08
s/to/through/
15:08
<nubae>
hey, totally offtopic... but do u guys know if ubuntu has been ported to ARM
15:08
<ogra>
just the water was on the other side :)
15:09
<vagrantc>
ogra: the one on the east coast, i presume
15:09
<nubae>
as in like the nokia 770
15:09
<ogra>
nubae, nope, it hasnt and there are no plans to
15:09
we're working on a mobile edition for other arches though
15:09
<nubae>
and its probably suicide to try with moblin?
15:09
<ogra>
go to #ubuntu-mobile :)
15:09
<nubae>
yeah mobile embedded
15:10
checkiung that out... any idea how far along development of that is?
15:10
<ogra>
but the others are meeting up as well, so you might not have much luck today, we're going out now
15:10
<nubae>
ok, talk to you later :-)
15:10
<ogra>
8.04 will have the first mobile edition released
15:10
bye
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20:03
<davidj>
Anyone seen Scotty?
20:04
<jammcq>
hey
20:04
scotty is sitting on an airplane, somewhere between Minneapolis and Winnepeg
20:04ace_suares has joined #ltsp
20:04
<davidj>
Ah, sorry, I thought his flight was tomorrow.
20:04
<jammcq>
nope, I dropped him at the airport this afternoon
20:05
<davidj>
He and I were talking about sql-ledger, and I couldn't remember the name of the fork (ledger-smb)
20:05
<jammcq>
hmm
20:05
<davidj>
I met the superintended of the Duval County school system on my flight.
20:06
oops, superintendent
20:06
<jammcq>
hmm
20:06
<davidj>
we talked about ltsp briefly (20,000 ft overview)
20:06
he seemed interested, gave me his card and asked me to contact him.
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20:06
<davidj>
I'll keep you posted.
20:07
<jammcq>
cool
20:07
<davidj>
Might even pay for all those labtahs you ate ;->
20:09
agh, how does anyone stand Windows? I've been installing it for a client since 3, and it's still clumping along.
20:09
And this is a fast machine.
20:10
(I do sort of see why so many consultants prefer it, though; if you're billing by the hour, it's a nice steady source of income).
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20:31
<ace_suares>
davidj: try winxp under qemu on a core 2 duo 6500 with 800Mhz RAM and 4 GB of it... still slowwwwwwww :-(
20:33
<davidj>
ace_suares: This is running on raw metal, core 2 duo, and it's amazing just how slow it is.
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20:47
<davidj>
'night
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22:26
<sbalneav>
Evening all
22:32mwright1 has joined #ltsp
22:34
<mwright1>
hello.. anyone home
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22:35
<moquist>
sbalneav: hey
22:36
<sbalneav>
Hey moquist
22:36daya has joined #ltsp
22:36
<sbalneav>
Just made it home.
22:36
<moquist>
sbalneav: sorry to re-raise completed discussions...but why not just maintain a patch to sshfs that makes statfs work? Would that really be worse than an entirely separate shim filesystem?
22:36
Just checking.
22:36
<sbalneav>
What are you going to do to patch sshfs?
22:37
<moquist>
sbalneav: not sure. :)
22:37
<sbalneav>
You'd have to patch BOTH sshfs AND sftp
22:37
<moquist>
well, there's a reason not to do that. :)
22:37
<sbalneav>
and you'd never, ever NEVER get a patch to sftp through :)
22:37
<moquist>
Oh, right. I know it couldn't be pushed upstream.
22:38
<sbalneav>
You'd never ever NEVER get a distro maintained patch to sftp either.
22:39
If a distro ever maintained distro specific patches to either ssh or sftp, and there was ever an ssh/sftp compromize on that distro, the bad press would kill the distro
22:39
<moquist>
But now I'll be assuming a requirement of having an available control socket, and using that to run 'stat' on the server. Why not do that with a patch to sshfs itself, without touching sftp?
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22:39
<sbalneav>
"Who do these guys think they are custom patching such an important piece of software blah blah <distro> sucks, etc"
22:39* moquist nods
22:40
<sbalneav>
Because what do you do if you DON'T have a control socket.
22:40
and, FUSE and ssh work on more than just linux, not all of them have the stat shell call, like windows.
22:41
so you'd have to maintain a bunch of different ways of doing it, etc etc.
22:41
Or, a nice, simple, well defined shim fileststem that's advertised to work only on Linux systems :)
22:42
<moquist>
What about a nice, simple, well-defined patch to the statfs API in sshfs that only works on Linux systems?
22:43* sbalneav shrugs.
22:43
<sbalneav>
Feel free.
22:43
<moquist>
If we're getting ControlPath and ControlMaster into sshfs anyway, this could be contained within the statfs API (or nearly so).
22:43
<sbalneav>
I'll let you argue that one out with the security team :)
22:43
<moquist>
heh
22:44
<sbalneav>
I know Miklos won't have it, as I asked before.
22:44
I had this idea already.
22:44
<moquist>
sbalneav: I don't know which I think would be better, really. I'm just trying to get a really solid handle on what I'm doing and why.
22:44
<sbalneav>
Even had a working patch.
22:44* moquist nods
22:44
<sbalneav>
So, even if you could convince Ubuntu to take it,...
22:45
You'd have to convince EVERY OTHER distro to take it as well.
22:45
<moquist>
was it a small, cohesive patch?
22:45
<sbalneav>
Yup
22:45
60 lines.
22:45
<moquist>
hmm.
22:45
<sbalneav>
Doing it this way, it's a standalone piece, that doesn't touch the other two.
22:46
<moquist>
Ok, ok. I'm convinced.
22:46
:)
22:46
sbalneav: thanks for humoring me, though.
22:46
<sbalneav>
Hey, don't take my word for it.
22:46
I'm a big fan of learning via skinned knees, I can dig up my patch, and you can float it by miklos again :)
22:47
but his take on the subject was: The "proper" way to do this is via a patch to sftp
22:47
so get the OpenSSH people to accept that. :)
22:47
<moquist>
and their take was "there is no proper way to do this"
22:47
<sbalneav>
Their take was: "this has no business in an FTP client"
22:48
<moquist>
well, I'm futzing with the parameters to sshfsplus now.
22:48
my C is fuzzy and my brain is sleepy...we'll see how this goes.
22:49
<sbalneav>
Ok, well, if you see McQ, tell him I made it home in one piece.
22:49
<moquist>
will do
22:49
<sbalneav>
I'm gonna head off to bed.
22:49
Cheers!
22:49
<moquist>
sleepy tight
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<moquist>
jammcq: sbalneav made it home OK
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