IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 November 2010   (all times are UTC)

00:08zz_evil_root is now known as evil_root
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00:13
<android808>
aloha all, i am configuring an ubuntu 10.04 i386 ltsp server installation for a local high school here on the big island of hawaii. I am very familiar with linux/unix and ubuntu, although this is the first time i have attempted to have the ltsp server be the primary and only server on the network...
00:15
<evil_root>
congrats
00:16
<android808>
previously i had specially configured installation of 9.04 server that was acting as a windows domain server, nfs, ldap, dns, dhcp, etc... the school could not afford to purchase new systems so i chose ltsp and beefed up their main server, it is a quad opteron with 16gb, should do it for 60-80 clients. I am looking to configure services for clients on the network that are ltsp clients, such as independent desktops, etc.
00:17
I went with the dual network card configuration, and have printers, etc on the private network, all clients work great and see internet, but when i connect a system that is not part of the ltsp, it cant get dhcp or dns...
00:18
Before i go breaking the standalone dhcp server, i thought id ask if that was easilly possible.
00:19
so basically, my question is this: can i configure my ltsp server to also serve dns and dhcp to regular windows/linux systems that are still left on the network.
00:20
<evil_root>
so you want to plug something into the ltsp network that is not an ltsp client?
00:20
<android808>
yeah
00:21
<evil_root>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT/
00:21
<android808>
i would like the ltsp server to also take care of dns/dhcp/samba/cups for the random windows laptops the kids and staff come and go with.
00:21
<evil_root>
that should work
00:21
i have tried it
00:22
even with shitty windows, laptops plugged in pulled ip's and natted out threw the ltsp server
00:22
<android808>
i followed that and was able to get internet, but none of the services hosted by ltsp server such as my cups printers and samba/nfs shares.
00:22
do i need to do some firewall trickery to open those services to non ltsp systems?
00:24
<evil_root>
are your services listening on the lan ip or are they listening on localhost and the thin clients are chrooting them
00:24
<android808>
the latter
00:24
local/chroot
00:24
<evil_root>
try to set them to also listen on the lan ip
00:24
<android808>
i used to do it the otherway, but outofbox 10.04 ltsp seems to do it the new way.
00:25
in addition? ok
00:25
thought that would break it.
00:25
<evil_root>
it should hopefully listen on both
00:29
are you going the route of thin clients or fat clients?
00:29
<android808>
thin clients
00:29
since its a school
00:29
<evil_root>
firefox?
00:30
or any web browser?
00:30
<android808>
yes, and some specially compiled mozilla version for doe compliant secure browsing> testing....
00:30
<evil_root>
your not going to get many more then 20 or 30 clients
00:30
<android808>
the server spikes a bit on youtube, etc, but seems alright for this usage...
00:30
<evil_root>
cpu is nothing
00:30
ram is everything
00:30
<android808>
ahh
00:31
well, i can put up to 48gb, but they only tend to use 10 or so at a time anyway.
00:31
<evil_root>
good very good
00:31
<android808>
they spent upgrade money on a tyan board instead of 80 new clients
00:32
at my suggestion, so i wanna make it work...
00:32
<evil_root>
nice
00:32
<android808>
i am reflecting your suggestions in ssh client atm, will let u know.
00:33
and thanks, btw i really appreciate your advice.
00:33
<evil_root>
np
00:33
i help to give back to the open source
00:34
i love this shit
00:34
<android808>
and i am looking forward to conributing more in the community, i code x86 and ppc ASM and work
00:34
i am sure i can offer sumthen
00:34
i code other things too, but those seem to be shorthanded these days.
00:34
<evil_root>
nice
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00:35
<evil_root>
what you got for hard drives on the box?
00:35
<android808>
areca hardware raid with 8 1.5 gb seagate sata drives.
00:35
in raid 6
00:35
or 5/ w extensions or whatever
00:36
<evil_root>
good very good
00:36
<android808>
i like areca, i helped this poor taiwanese programmer who got the entire linux driver for areca dumped on him.
00:36
<evil_root>
ouch
00:36
<android808>
i fixed a ton of segfaults in his code and got it to work on jaunty
00:36
and submitted him fixes.
00:37
sorry feisty...
00:37
and bam, driver is included in jaunty.
00:37
i was stoked.
00:37
since then i wanna contribute more.
00:38
well, rebooting, my putty went poof wish me luck.
00:38
i always hope it comes back so i dont have to drive accross the island ;)
00:39
<evil_root>
lmao
00:39
thats why i like vmware
00:39
esxi
00:39
or esx if you got the $
00:39
<android808>
me too but i have remote acronis so im kinda wreckless.
00:40
<alkisg>
android808: if I understood your setup correctly, then the ltsp clients are connected to eth0 on the server and the other clients to eth1? So you need another dhcp range?
00:40
<evil_root>
they can use the same range as the clients if he sets the server to nat
00:40
which he has
00:41
<android808>
i was thinking about that, but the ltsp and other clients are all connected to eth1, eth0 sees only the WAN gateway
00:41
<alkisg>
evil_root: if they're not connected to that nic, how can they?
00:41
android808: ok, then why don't they get IPs?
00:41
<android808>
dunno
00:41
<evil_root>
if the computers are some way connected to the server, there is a way
00:41
<alkisg>
It's another thing for them to not access the internet (==needs NAT), and another to not get an IP...
00:41
<android808>
i think ltsp server restricts handing out ips if the client isnt pxe booting.
00:42
<alkisg>
What's your dhcpd.conf like?
00:42
<android808>
they didnt even get ips, and i could not ping server, so i figured dhcpd on server was configured to a gateway that didnt exisit, except if you were booting as an ltsp clieent
00:43
<alkisg>
android808: the dhcp server hands out IPs on ltsp clients _after_ they boot, so it has to hand out IPs to non-PXE clients too
00:43
<android808>
and i checked, it is configured that way, the howtoNat page has most of it figured out.
00:43
<alkisg>
(each ltsp clients asks for an IP _twice_, one for pxe and one later on)
00:43
<android808>
xept it doesnt.
00:43
<alkisg>
So are you certain they're connected to eth0?
00:44
<android808>
when i connect regular pc to same ethernet cable that worked great for ltsp client, it wont even get and ip
00:44
<alkisg>
Hmmm....
00:44
<evil_root>
thats fucked up, when i do it, 10.04 i do on windows xp
00:44
<alkisg>
Can you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
00:44
<android808>
and if i manually assign one with the server as the gateway, the server routes it to a nonexistant ip unless you follow howtoNat page instructions for changing routes in dhcpd
00:45
i will paste when server comes back up...
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01:30
<alkisg>
android808: also, the whole purpose of the 2 NIC setup is to have some additional safety for the LTSP clients (i.e. separate subnet). If all of the clients are on the same subnet, I think it'll be easier to have a single NIC setup.
01:31
Then no NATting will be required
01:31
<android808>
ok
01:36
so, my putty clipboard seems to be broken, i need to reboot, been using pastebin all day... i finally got it all working by setting the clients to listen on lan, following nat guide and firewall settings mentioned there, created seperate samba accounts and printer accounts, as well as seperate ssh server for worldly and non ltsp access.... and finally... set the server up with its own dns root zone and used itself for dns at /etc/resolv.conf
01:37
that made all the samba and local services show up on non ltsp clients.
01:38
and i can still remote into ltsp clients after reboot and all is well.
01:39
thanks to evil_root and alkisg for very helpfull suggestions.
01:39
i couldnt find anyone mentioning using dnz root zone at an ltsp, but it works here without breaking ltsp.
01:40
8-)
01:52
<alkisg>
android808: btw to better serve students that come with laptops here, I'm using a combo thin/fat client setup, so that they boot from the network, login with their ltsp account and have all their files there without losing 3D acceleration etc
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02:08
<gnunux>
hi
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08:22
<foobar08>
Hello, anybody here use ubuntu ltsp and are able to VNC to a client session?
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08:59
<alkisg>
foobar08: yes, with a number of methods... vino-server, italc, x11vnc...
09:06
<mgariepy>
my favourite is x11vnc :)
09:10
<alkisg>
Mine too -although scripted and with a nice GUI showing the clients- :D
09:10* alkisg waits for vino-server to support reverse connections...
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09:11
<foobar08>
I tried a tutorial from edubuntu and it failed miserably
09:11
with x11vnc
09:11
<alkisg>
Which one?
09:11
<mgariepy>
mine is not scripted but i use it to connect to client through a vpn :)
09:11
<foobar08>
This is the one that has you install x11vnc into the chroot
09:11
<alkisg>
Any links?
09:12
<foobar08>
hold on
09:12
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
09:14
<alkisg>
That's an old page...
09:15
At least the "-display :6" part will probably fail
09:15
<mgariepy>
to start x11vnc i use this command on the thin client: DISPLAY=:7 XAUTHORITY=$(ls -1 /var/run/ldm-xauth-*/Xauthority) x11vnc -rfbport 9000
09:15
i run it manualy tho.
09:15
<alkisg>
!xauthority
09:15
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
09:16
<alkisg>
...but you can launch it from the server as well if you have sudo rights
09:16
Or you can just use italc.sf.net
09:16
bbl
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09:25zz_evil_root is now known as evil_root
09:28
<Gadi>
these days, you can easily make an init script in /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/I00-x11vnc with: x11vnc -rfbport 9000 || true
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10:01
<mnemoc>
hi, has anyone tried ubuntu-netbook as desktop environment in LTSP/ubuntu 10.10 ? ... I get a bunch of gnome processes running but only the background displayed (previusly an empty $HOME user)
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10:05
<mnemoc>
and nothing interesting in .xsessions-error, nothing about compiz either :)
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10:43
<robehend1>
mnemoc: I tried it just to see how it worked, came across the same things you did, and ignored it afterwards. Didn't like unity much anyways.
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10:45
<mnemoc>
robehend1: thanks for confirming it's not my fault :)
11:15
<Gadi>
unity *requires* opengl
11:16
which means that you cannot use it if you do not have an opengl capable client
11:16
<mnemoc>
narf
11:17
how does the marriage of canonical with GL affect ubuntu's ltsp future?
11:19
<Gadi>
unity is far from mature and the opengl requirement is only a current requirement (they will most likely remove that dependency in the future)
11:19
<mnemoc>
iirc they are going to switch to a GL-only replacement of xorg
11:20
the layout of unity is very nice for kiosk-alike thin clients imo
11:21
<Gadi>
mnemoc: many of the active devs of LTSP come from the Ubuntu camp
11:21
so, we are well aware of the trends and we'll adapt
11:21
<mnemoc>
:)
11:21* mnemoc calms down and trusts
11:22
<Gadi>
hehe
11:22
lots of buzz these days about "the end of the world as we know it"
11:22
:)
11:22* vagrantc starts scrounging for tinfoil
11:23* Gadi runs to the shelter that stockpiled on something other than tinfoil
11:23
<Gadi>
;)
11:25
<ogra_ac>
with the current ltsp setup wayland will just work fine
11:25
you will still have ssh -X
11:25
it might not work with XDMCP but thats not necessarily a bad thing ;)
11:25
<mnemoc>
=)
11:26
<Gadi>
that assumes they run Xorg as a wayland client, right?
11:26
<ogra_ac>
yes, but thats the design anyway
11:26
<Gadi>
so export DISPLAY should work, as well
11:27
<ogra_ac>
http://www.heise.de/imgs/18/5/9/1/8/3/3/x-on-wayland-ae55da8dfc61d00c.png
11:41
<alkisg>
A compositing desktop might even provide for a faster remote desktop client, without using X at all, without the need for screen polling heuristics like vnc does. So if that is ever implemented we'll also gain pause/resume session ability.
11:41
ogra_ac: have you heard if canonical will put any developers working on wayland?
11:42
<Gadi>
how does that get us to persistent sessions?
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11:42
<alkisg>
With a vnc-like thing, it's easy to migrate sessions. With X it's difficult
11:43
<Gadi>
thats because VNC server runs on the server
11:44
<alkisg>
Right, I hope the same will be true for that new remote desktop too (not the X-based one, the compositing-based one)
11:44
<Gadi>
hmm..
11:44
<alkisg>
To detect screen changes, VNC uses heuristics. I hope that with a compositing desktop heuristics won't be needed, resulting in a much faster remote desktop
11:45
<Gadi>
right - faster and persistent are two different beasts
11:45
<alkisg>
It'll still be vnc-like though
11:45
Remote desktop, not remote X...
11:46* alkisg isn't talking about the X over wayland thing...
11:46
<alkisg>
E.g. screen recording is much easier/faster with compositing desktops
11:46
<korcan>
Hello, I am having trouble getting ldap auth to work on ubuntu 10.10, I can do getent passwd USERNAME and it returns results from ldap properly... any ideas?
11:47
<alkisg>
...because there's a stage where the compositor has the bitmap it wants to render on the screen, so it can then just send it in a file or over the network etc, that's not true with X
11:48
<Gadi>
gotcha
11:48
but isn't going from an X to a W a step bckwards? ;)
11:48
deep thoughts....
11:49
korcan: perhaps you do not have the permissions set correctly for the system to see the passwords
11:50
korcan: or perhaps you do not have pam_ldap set upproperly
11:50
korcan: getent means you have nss_ldap set up properly
11:53
<korcan>
Gadi: thanks, I will look into pam_ldap
11:53
Gadi: I ran pam-auth-update and it has ldap selected...
11:54
What permissions are you talking about?
11:54
<Gadi>
permissions on the ldap server side that allow users to read/write their own passwords
11:55
and allows the bind user that pam_ldap uses to read/write passwords
11:56
you may also want to look at auth.log for errors
11:56
<korcan>
I have it working with an existing ltsp server, trying to get a new one going ...
11:56
auth.log, looking
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13:44
<robehend1>
I had my students discover Wireshark today. Oh the joys.
13:47
<highvoltage>
nice :)
13:47
<robehend1>
would have been better if I *wanted* them to discover it today
13:47
instead of a kid bringing in a flash drive
13:48
<highvoltage>
is it installed on the application server?
13:48
<robehend1>
nah, this was on one of my few, few windows boxes.
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16:07
<AJMC>
Hi.. this isn't perhaps entirely an LTSP question, but is there any easy (graphical) way to configure the default system-wide panels / menus etc on Gnome 2?
16:09
I'm not in the least averse to text based configuration, but it seems fairly unpleasant having to work with /usr/share/gnome/default.session etc directly
16:10
I thought sabayon looked perfect for this but it seems it doesn't handle panels?
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