IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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02:50
<PiIgrim>
howdy all, question .. what is wrong in what configs if the client boots and it's loading /tftpboot/bzimage ... and keeps putting points/dots slowly, very slowly ... as in .. in 20 minutes 6 dots ... i did connected them to a cross cable, and no, it didn't solved the problem...
02:50
any ideas ?
02:55
<Appiah>
how big is the bzimage ?
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03:05
<PiIgrim>
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M 2008-10-22 06:12 vmlinuz-2.6.24-21-generic
03:05
i'd say rather small
03:06
i have also another ltsp serv on lan, and if i let it boot from it, it puts like ... 500 dots in 2 seconds and starts
03:09
<Appiah>
are you trying with the same client?
03:10
<PiIgrim>
yeap
03:10
<Appiah>
hm
03:10
sounds strange
03:11
I would check the traffic then
03:16
<alkisg>
Pilgrim, do other clients boot OK from both servers?
03:16
<PiIgrim>
nope
03:17
this new server i'm installing .. so .. now i first try to boot from this new one ..
03:17
<alkisg>
OK... maybe a problem with the tftp server?
03:18
<PiIgrim>
tftp server is managed by xinetd .. and i looked into this ...
03:18
hmm
03:18
yeap
03:18
this seem to be indeed the problem
03:19
t# tftp localhost
03:19
tftp> get vmlinuz-2.6.24-21-generic
03:19
and it just idle
03:19
with full path same thing
03:19
tftp> get /tftpboot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-21-generic
03:19
Transfer timed out.
03:19
<alkisg>
Which tftp server is it?
03:20
<PiIgrim>
tftpd - IPv4 Trivial File Transfer Protocol server
03:20
in.tftpd binary, runned via xinetd
03:20
<Appiah>
check the log
03:21
<alkisg>
(you could also try tftpd-hpa...)
03:21
In synaptic, I see : "Tftpd is not suitable for use with the PXE bootloader; for that, use atftpd or tftpd-hpa."
03:22
But I've never tried tftpd, I don't know why it states that.
03:22
<Appiah>
hmm
03:29
<PiIgrim>
hmm yea
03:29
the tftp thingy i solved it ...
03:30
aparently it was because of the extra params i added ..
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04:00
<PiIgrim>
so ... i just re-did:
04:00
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
04:00
ltsp-update-kernels -t /tftpboot -b /opt/ltsp
04:01
what image should i use for boot ?
04:08
..... (PXE) ............ segment [nr:nr] does not fit in any memory region
04:08
what's this ?
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04:09
<Appiah>
I think that happends when you try to boot the wrnog arch
04:09
<PiIgrim>
well ... it
04:09
well ... it's i386 ..
04:09
how could i be wrong ?
04:09
lol
04:10
<Appiah>
well the error is about the same
04:10
;)
04:10
either that or it's to big for the client
04:11
<PiIgrim>
the ltsp-build-client made me an i386.img file of considerable dimensions .. what's that for ?
04:11
-rwxr--r-- 1 root root 150M 2008-10-30 10:55 i386.img
04:12
and no, i am not trying to boot with this one :)
04:13
<Appiah>
that's very big...
04:14
<PiIgrim>
i try to boot with the images that ltsp-update-kernels -t /tftpboot -b /opt/ltsp created for me
04:15
/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic
04:15
/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic
04:15
and with this i got the segment does not fit error
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04:21
<ninou>
hi
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05:11
<Appiah>
PiIgrim: getting anywhere?
05:39
<Nubae>
ogra: what's Intrepid's support time frame?
05:40
<ogra>
18 months, like any non LTS
05:40
<Nubae>
ah, well then hardy's support time frame is wrong, cause on the release page it says supported for 18 months
05:41
how many months for LTS, then?
05:41
<ogra>
depends which one
05:41
edubuntu and kubuntu arent LTS
05:41
<Nubae>
oh?
05:41
<ogra>
only ubuntu is
05:41
and apps directly included in ubuntu
05:42
<Nubae>
thats a bit confusing, I mean edubuntu is ubuntu + add on cd, and that then invalidates the LTS?
05:42* ogra watches #ubuntu-release-party with amusement
05:42
<ogra>
no, the ubuntu part is LTS
05:42
the addon part isnt
05:43
kubuntu uses the ubuntu-minimal package on the lowest layer ... thats LTS ... the kde apps on top arent
05:44
<Nubae>
so 'Ubuntu Education edition' refers only to the addon cd?
05:44
or also LTSP server?
05:45
<ogra>
no idea, RichEd defines what Ubuntu Education edition is
05:45
its definately not ltsp
05:45
ltsp is a server software included in ubuntu
05:45
not bound to education
05:45
(tahts why its on the ubuntu CD and there is no edubuntu install CD anymore ;) )
05:46
<Nubae>
I'm mostly talking in reference to the edubuntu.org download page
05:47
where it does state edubuntu can be installed in 2 forms, addon-cd or LTSP
05:47
<ogra>
no idea
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05:48
<ogra>
that wording would be bad
05:48
no idea who added that
05:48
really, talk to RichEd
05:48
<Nubae>
ok, I'll edit it more in line with what u said above...
05:48
or wait for RichEd to show up
05:49
but all edubuntu related releases then 18 months suppor
05:49
<ogra>
right
05:49
well, the apps on the CD that is
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05:54
<ninou>
in debian/lenny can not logout when i use autologin :(
05:55
<ogra>
use LDM_TIMEOUT
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05:58
<xmagixx>
i'm haveing a huge problem, when useing sudo ltsp-build-client , when it starts to build almost everything it says it couldent find, allthough it ends with success, but i got no grapfical login, here's the pastebin of the errors http://pastebin.com/f1312310a
05:58
<alkisg>
Hi all, apart from USE_LOCAL_SWAP and actually having a swap partition, what else do I have to do to enable local swap? (hardy) If I do `swapon /dev/sda2` after logging in to a TC, I enable it, but it's not enabled by default...
06:01
<ninou>
ogra: LDM_TIMEOUT do nothing, and it is not in the ldm source
06:03
<ogra>
ninou, oh, sorry, its LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED and LDM_TIMEIUT_TIME
06:03
and its in the greeter
06:04
<poliveira>
Hi all. I have a ltsp5 scenario with debian etch. I have everything configured on debian, but I want the thin clients to use ldm because of the usb devices. The thing is I don't want to connect to this debian machine, since it hasn't X, but to login on another debian machine with X. It is working ok, except the usb mount.
06:05
I made the debug, and everything is ok until step 4 on chroot
06:06
it's like ltspfsmounter doesn't exits
06:08
<PiIgrim>
Appiah not realty
06:08
-t
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07:16
<Appiah>
poliveira: do you have ltspfs and ltspfsd ?
07:18
<poliveira>
yes
07:19
<Appiah>
and there is a fuse group
07:19
and the user is a member of that group?
07:26
<poliveira>
yes
07:27
<xmagixx>
after adding some users i no longer have X aka grafics, it just dumps in a BusyBox shell, how to fix this ?
07:27
<poliveira>
the thing is that the users are created on the debian machine with the ltsp5. the other debian machine where I want to make ldm is a ldap client of the first
07:28
<PiIgrim>
hmm, not if boots and starts .. and it remains at initramfs, any clues on what should i look into next ?
07:29
<xmagixx>
Pilgrim i'm haveing the same problem!
07:30
<poliveira>
I was able to make it work now. I installed ltspfs on the LDAP client machine. because with this I now have ltspfsmounter on the machine where I am making ldm
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07:30
<poliveira>
it's the way I found to work
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07:42
<gate_keeper_>
does nfs have any connection with this: ..line 174: can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf on debian
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07:46
<gate_keeper_>
suppose it can't find the eth
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08:08
<ninou>
ogra: in which package and its version are LDM_TIMEOUT flags ?
08:09
<ogra>
not sure when it was added, but surely in the current ubuntu release that goes out within the next hours
08:10
and afaik the same code should also be in debian lenny atm
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08:15
<johnny>
somebody answered my question? http://torrentfreak.com/use-bittorrent-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex-081029/
08:15
apt-p2p
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08:16
<ogra>
johnny, ask in #ubuntu-release-party :)
08:17
<johnny>
i don't need to ask, i see it :)
08:17
it was nice to have my question answered without searching :)
08:17
<ogra>
you had a questionmark there :)
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08:18
<ogra>
#u-r-p is really entertaining :)
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08:25
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:26
<Guaraldo>
!S
08:26
<ltspbot`>
Guaraldo: "S" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:26
<Guaraldo>
Hi, sbalneav!
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08:26
<sbalneav>
Hey Guaraldo!
08:27
<Guaraldo>
How do you do, man???
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08:29
<ogra>
sbalneav, /join #ubuntu-release-party ;)
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08:31
<ogra>
... if you want to see something scrolling faaaast :)
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08:43* Guaraldo have to go now!
08:43
<Guaraldo>
Seeya!
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08:46
<sbalneav>
ogra: Been there, done that :)
08:47
<ogra>
:)
08:47
<sbalneav>
\o/ for intrepid, BTW
08:47
<ogra>
not yet
08:47
<sbalneav>
I know, but anxiously awaiting :)
08:47
<ogra>
i guess within the next hour
08:48
<sbalneav>
I've been getting involved a little bit the twiki schism. We're big twiki users here at Legal Aid, so I've been idling in #twiki_fork for the last day or so.
08:49
It was on /. a couple of days ago.
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08:50
<ogra>
yeah i saw their page recently
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08:58
<ninou>
why hostname in section identifier in lts.conf does not work instead of IP or MAC address ?
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09:01
<sbalneav>
ninou: You need the "get-lease-hostnames true" stanza enabled in your dhcpd.conf file for that to work.
09:01
<ninou>
sbalneav: thanks
09:04
<warren>
hmm, anyone remember what is the X* option that lets you specify a different xorg.conf location?
09:04
<ogra>
X_CONF
09:05
<warren>
X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg.conf-somethingelse?
09:05
<sbalneav>
yuppers
09:05
<ogra>
yep
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09:08
<poliveira>
is there a way to specify diferent ldm hosts? I want to make a ldm connection to more than one machine
09:10
<sbalneav>
What, as in have a chooser where you can select which host to connect to?
09:12
<alkisg>
poliveira, I think LDM_SERVER in lts.conf specifies which host ldm will connect to.
09:15
<poliveira>
yes, but it only gives me one option, right? I want to have a screen to one host using ldm, and two other screens using ldm to two different hosts
09:18
<warren>
eww
09:18
<Gadi>
poliveira: you can only have ldm running on 1 thin client screen
09:19
<warren>
Gadi: we don't enforce that... it just blows up...
09:19* ogra is hapy to announce that ubuntu 8.10 is officially released now
09:19
<Gadi>
right - the code is not written to support multiple ldm screens
09:19
<warren>
with the ssh thing, it is impossible to support multiple ldm screens now
09:20
<ogra>
??
09:20
why
09:20
<sbalneav>
Gadi: Well, actually, when I rewrote LDM, I actually had in mind that we should be able to support more than one screen.
09:20
<ogra>
warren, i can use ten terminals to log in to ten servers with ssh ... why shouldnt that work for ldm ?
09:20
<alkisg>
ogra, congrats! (the ubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso was up since yesterday? 29-Oct-2008 23:24)
09:20
<sbalneav>
If there's something that's preventing that, then that's a bug we should fix.
09:21
<warren>
if you turn off ltspfs and localapps it can probably work
09:21
<ogra>
alkisg, yeah, but only throgh secret channels
09:21
<alkisg>
heh
09:21
<ogra>
warren, thats a bug then
09:21
ltspfs should cope
09:21
<Gadi>
sbalneav: we onle have environment vars for ldm
09:21
<ogra>
loclapps wont
09:21
<Gadi>
so you can set LDM_SERVER
09:21
and that applies to all
09:21
<sbalneav>
Let's take a look at that next week.
09:21
<Gadi>
we do not pass LDM_SERVER as an arg to each ldm instance
09:22
<warren>
I personally don't care if someone is trying to use more than one ldm on the same client
09:22
<Gadi>
nor any other LDM_*
09:22
<ogra>
we could
09:22
<warren>
It is a bad idea.
09:22
<sbalneav>
So, what we need is something like LDM_SERVER_SCREENx or the like.
09:22
<warren>
I actually hate the entire screen* design
09:22
<Gadi>
yuck, no
09:22
<poliveira>
yeah. but don't you think it's a great ideia?
09:22
I am one of the people who would like that?
09:22
<Gadi>
poliveira: why?
09:22
<poliveira>
sorry, no question mark on the last message
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09:23
<poliveira>
I have a server with everything on it, dhcp, nfs, ltsp, apache, the works
09:23
<Gadi>
why not handle it all on the backend?
09:23
<poliveira>
but it doesn't have X
09:23
<warren>
btw, what day are we leaving Maine?
09:23
<Gadi>
ok.
09:23
so?
09:23
<ogra>
whats the prob with that ?
09:24
<Gadi>
thats your boot server
09:24
just set LDM_SERVER to the appropriate app server
09:24
<sbalneav>
warren: any ideas how we could revamp that?
09:24
<poliveira>
I want the thin client to connect to three different UBUNTU remote desktop
09:24
<Gadi>
but, why?
09:24
<warren>
sbalneav: revamp what?
09:24
<poliveira>
with local devices support
09:24
<Gadi>
but, why?
09:24
<sbalneav>
The screen design
09:24
<warren>
sbalneav: I personally want to rip out support for SCREEN_* and use your own distro's VT defining
09:25
<Gadi>
you want *each* thin client to have 3 different simultaneous desktop connections?
09:25
<warren>
and it is a non-priority for me to make multiple LDM's work
09:25
<ogra>
warren, that would make a lot users upset
09:25
<warren>
if somebody else wants to fix it, I welcome them to do it
09:25
ogra: right, I'm not doing something so drastic without the others agreeing.
09:25
<poliveira>
:) it's a costumer requirement.
09:26
because each server has different apps
09:26
<ogra>
warren, well, i'm personally not against it and actualy agree with you, it just slows down the boot, but its a common practice
09:26
<poliveira>
and he wants local devices support on all
09:26
<Gadi>
why not provide one desktop on one screen
09:26
<warren>
poliveira: multiple LDM's is the wrong way to do what you want
09:26
<Gadi>
and push all the apps back through it
09:26
<warren>
poliveira: a menu to select which server you want to login is the right way.
09:26
<Blinny>
Just map the apps correctly using NFS
09:26
<ogra>
right, merge the servers
09:27
<sbalneav>
poliveira: Looks like the answer is: "not now, and no time soon" :)
09:28
<Blinny>
The first user I created on my Hardy server gets all the apport crash reports. How can I have my other administrative logins be notified of crash reports?
09:28
<sbalneav>
Yeah, server menu would be easier, as an intermediate step.
09:28
<poliveira>
I told him to do that, he didn't want it. he want every app on each server.
09:28
<ogra>
Blinny, hmm, all users of the admin group should get them
09:29
<Gadi>
poliveira: right, but make a launcher on one desktop
09:29
that will run the app on the other server
09:29
and push it back
09:29
<ogra>
sbalneav, err, we have a server menu ?
09:29* ogra forgot how to enable it but there was one once
09:29* sbalneav slaps forhead
09:29
<Blinny>
ogra: I added these admin users from the command line, not using System->admin->users, but they are in the admin group
09:29
<sbalneav>
yeah, we do, I forgot.
09:30
duh
09:30
<ogra>
bt it needs a special script and the keys
09:30
<warren>
sigh. Day 400 of the Fedora X VT flamewar.
09:30
<sbalneav>
right.
09:30
<warren>
I really don't care about this flamewar.
09:30
<Blinny>
...not that I can tell from a terminal because *#&%* policykit is still busted
09:30
<ogra>
warren, time to switch to ubuntu, out flamewars are tame :)
09:30
*our
09:30
<poliveira>
but, one question. I have the option SERVER=172.31.3.176 and the LDM_SERVER=172.31.3.175. the thing is I need to install the package ltspfs on the LDM_SERVER because of the command ltspfsmounter
09:31
<sbalneav>
Blinny: getent group admin :)
09:31
<Blinny>
sbalneav: Yeah, the accounts are listed
09:31
<poliveira>
or the usb device doesn't appear on the ldm host
09:31
<sbalneav>
also, as the user, you can just run the command "id"
09:31
poliveira: yup, that's right, you'll need the ltspfs package installed on the ldm server
09:32
<warren>
ogra: might be hard to get my management to agree to that.
09:32
<ogra>
sbalneav, and the user in the fuse group indeed
09:32
<sbalneav>
yes, that too.
09:32
<ogra>
warren, ah, well, over time ...
09:32
<Blinny>
sbalneav: Yah the accounts are in the admin group - 115(admin) (And fuse: 107(fuse))
09:33
<sbalneav>
Not sure then.
09:33
<gate_keeper_>
guys, ltsp-server-standalone installs pulseaudio by default?
09:33
<sbalneav>
something with apport then
09:33
<ogra>
gate_keeper_, which is a moot dependency and should be cleaned up, since the desktop depends on it anyway
09:34
though its the esd compatibility layer actually
09:34
(which in turn likely depends on pulse)
09:34
<Blinny>
Yah it's strange. If I log in as the original admin user (uid 1000) I'll immediately get 10-15 NetworkManager and ndiswrapper crash reports
09:34
<gate_keeper_>
ogra: k,thx
09:34
<ogra>
Blinny, ndiswrapper ?
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09:35
<ogra>
you use ndiswrapper on a production server ?
09:35
<Blinny>
wait oops
09:35
npviewer.bin
09:35
Sorry - hold habits die hard
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09:48
<ninou>
what is the difference between LMD_REMOTECMD and LMD_SESSION ?
09:48
<ogra>
there is none, one replaced the other
09:48
the latter is the used one
09:51
thats so cute ... http://pythonide.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-to-make-money-with-free-software.html
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09:53
<Blinny>
I think apport requires update notification to be turned on to report crashes
09:56
<johnny>
odd problems here
09:56
err odd problem
09:56
since it only happens to one machine..
09:57
it hangs after loading initrd
09:57
killing nbd-server seems to fix it
09:58
<ogra>
Blinny, nope
10:04
<Blinny>
Do you know what fires the apport notification icon?
10:04
<ogra>
apport
10:05
<Blinny>
From wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport: "If a user process crashes while the user is not currently logged in, update-notifier will present a notification when the user starts a desktop session the next time"
10:05
<ogra>
thats wrong
10:05
<Blinny>
Yeah, the screenshots look older
10:06
<ogra>
i think apport just uses the notification daemon backend, but not update-notifier itself
10:06
<Blinny>
Then wiki/Apport is way wrong - update-notifier is peppered throughout
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10:06
<ogra>
but its moot anyway, apport gets deliberately disabled on release day
10:07
to not spam launchpad
10:07
<Blinny>
I thought it was the opposite - enabled after -final is put out?
10:07
<jammcq>
ogra: hey, congrats on the new release of Ubuntu
10:07
i'm looking forward to installing this weekend
10:07
<ogra>
jammcq, gracias :) btw my testmeil got through
10:07
*mail
10:07
<jammcq>
test mail?
10:07
<ogra>
so the mailserver seems fine
10:08
<jammcq>
ah, yeah we had a small problem last night
10:08
<ogra>
well, scottie complained to you last night
10:08
<jammcq>
yep, glad it's working
10:08
<ogra>
Blinny, i'm really the wrong person to talk to about apport, try to find pitti in one of the ubuntu channels
10:09
<Blinny>
ogra: OK. Thanks for trying - and congratulations!
10:09
<ogra>
thanks :)
10:11Colvile has joined #ltsp
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10:15
<johnny>
contributing to the torrentz
10:24staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:36
<johnny>
hmm.. amd64 torrent == good
10:36
i386 torrent == bad
10:37
guess most folks with fast connections have amd64 :)
10:37
<xmagixx>
:)
10:37ninou_ has joined #ltsp
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10:38ninou_ is now known as ninou
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11:01marcellodj has joined #ltsp
11:01
<marcellodj>
hello to all mates
11:01
can i ask here for some info about kiwi?
11:06
<johnny>
you can.. but there are few who can answer it
11:06
cyberorg isn't here
11:06
<marcellodj>
in a couple of hours i have my kiwi-ltsp up and running in a vm environment;
11:06
what i would know is how to modify the splash screen of kiwi ldm
11:07
looks so unprofessional
11:07
<johnny>
the themes are in /usr/share/ldm/themes
11:07
iirc
11:08
in the client
11:08
you have to know how to mess with gtk themes tho
11:09gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
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11:09
<marcellodj>
i have no dir called ldm
11:09
on the server
11:09
<johnny>
it's in the thin client chroot
11:10
wherever that is in suse
11:12
<marcellodj>
i will look after
11:12
thank very much
11:13
http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Tips_and_Tricks
11:13
there is the response to my stupid question
11:14
thanks again
11:14
i m very enthusiast of ltsp project, a great piece of sw
11:33tjikkun_work has quit IRC
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11:41warren has joined #ltsp
11:42
<warren>
jammcq: so unless there is a terrible snow storm, I'm going to the hackfest
11:43
<ninou>
howto can i allow a user to connect on the LDM_SERVER only via a LTSP client ?
11:43
<warren>
jammcq: could you please count me in? did you already tell the motel?
11:45Lns has joined #ltsp
11:46* Lns congratulates all the Ubuntu people on Intrepid's release!
11:50ogra has quit IRC
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11:55
<johnny>
got my amd64 and i386 cds already burned
11:55
now i just need my powerpc cd..
11:56warren has joined #ltsp
11:56
<johnny>
ready to upgrade sometime this weekend
11:58
<Lns>
johnny: I thought you used gentoo?
11:59
<johnny>
not @ red emma's
11:59
my gf uses ubuntu as well
11:59
i use gentoo on my personal machine
11:59
thinking about installing fedora 10 whenever it comes out tho.. on my desktop
11:59
err laptop
11:59
<Lns>
ah
12:00
johnny: you have a site for red emma's?
12:00
<johnny>
redemmas.org
12:01
<Lns>
that's logical ;)
12:01ninou has quit IRC
12:01
<Lns>
nice site
12:02warren has quit IRC
12:02
<johnny>
" our public internet terminals" == ltsp
12:07
<Lns>
johnny: where's that info on the site? couldn't find anything
12:07CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
12:07
<johnny>
it's on the front page
12:07
in the intro text
12:08
<Lns>
oh
12:08
heh
12:08
<johnny>
it doesn't say anything about the implementation or anything
12:08
nobody cares about that kinda thing
12:08
<Lns>
nice
12:08
yeah, of course
12:08
you could always have a link with "public internet terminals" that shows a pic or some such
12:09
<johnny>
been holding off on that
12:09
we have some pics on flickr
12:09
but .. they are old
12:10
and we're about to get lcd monitors (hopefully)
12:10
and move stuff..
12:10
so holding off on new pics until then
12:10
<Nubae>
anyone got a intrepid install that can do some screenshots for me?
12:11
<johnny>
not yet..
12:12ogra has joined #ltsp
12:12
<Nubae>
need it for wiki.edubun
12:12
oops
12:12
wiki.edubuntu.org/IntrepidClassroomServer
12:12
right now its got hardy images
12:13
<Lns>
ogra!
12:13
get some sleep?
12:13
<Nubae>
till when are regular server releases supported?
12:13
<johnny>
we're finally getting our monitors!
12:13
yay!
12:13
now all we need are tinier computers
12:14* johnny can't wait
12:15
<Nubae>
and when is Jaunty scheduled for launch?
12:15
<Lns>
one of my clients just bought a lab full of HP T5330 thinclients... they're pretty nice i guess, they do have wince on them though :( work pretty well w/ltsp, although some of them are reportedly hard-locking up
12:16
<johnny>
Lns, .. lemme know if you ever want to donate some before tax time :)
12:16
hehe
12:16* Lns starts the reboot-after-kernel-upgrade dance
12:16
<Lns>
johnny: heh... if it were my stuff, sure
12:16Lns has quit IRC
12:19japerry has joined #ltsp
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12:34
<Lns>
yikes...searching sourceforge lists is such a pita
12:34* Lns feels like a sloth
12:36
<Lns>
Is there a "standard" way (other than hacking the chroot) for syslog on thin-clients to log to the ltsp server instead of in the volatile chroot? That would be enormously helpful for remote administration
12:36
<loather-work>
SYSLOG_SERVER in the lts.conf, if i recall correctly
12:36
it defaults to, '
12:37
$SERVER' if not set (iirc)
12:37
<Lns>
loather: i've seen that, but if it defaults to the server...that would mean it already works..which it doesn't..
12:37
i was kind of confused as to that parm
12:37
<loather-work>
are you sure your syslog server accepts remote logging? :)
12:38
<Lns>
loather: oh..heh
12:38* Lns blushes
12:40
<Nubae>
there is something else.. u have to set it to -r somewhere for remote
12:40
<Lns>
Nubae: would that be in /etc/default by chance?
12:40
I think i remember doing that a few years ago for remote syslog
12:40mccann has joined #ltsp
12:41
<Lns>
yup../etc/default/syslogd
12:41
<Nubae>
yah thats the one
12:41
another wiki entry perhaps ;-)
12:42
<Lns>
Nubae: you read my mind
12:43
<Nubae>
:D
12:43* Lns wishes partimage could back up live partitions safely
12:44
<loather-work>
nothing really can
12:44
if you're using LVM you can take a snapshot of the LV, then back that up
12:45
<Lns>
loather: Acronis TrueImage does it quite nicely
12:46alkisg has joined #ltsp
12:49
<Lns>
loather-work: do you know if syslog_server is enabled, if it will *also* log locally in the chroot (as well as the server) ?
12:49* Lns is trying to build accurate documentation
12:50
<Gadi>
Lns: it never logs to the chroot
12:50
syslogd does not run in the chroot
12:50
<Lns>
err..syslog_host
12:50
<Gadi>
ok, syslog host
12:50
<Lns>
Gadi: hey =)
12:50
<Gadi>
it never logs on the thin client
12:50warren has joined #ltsp
12:50
<Gadi>
:)
12:50
except for ldm
12:50
that writes to ldm.log
12:50
and Xorg
12:50
<Lns>
Gadi: well what about xorg.*.log ?
12:50
<Gadi>
that writes to Xorg*log
12:51
neither of those use syslog
12:51
<Lns>
hrm
12:51
ok
12:51
<Gadi>
also, note that enabling syslogd on the server to accept logs increases network traffic dramatically
12:51
<Lns>
So what's the use of syslog_host ?
12:51
<Gadi>
so, there are consequences
12:52
<Lns>
if syslogd doesn't run in the chroot
12:52
<Nubae>
ubuntu.com is down to a snails pace... everyone downloading I suppose
12:52
<Gadi>
in case you have a central log server other than the LTSP server
12:52
<Lns>
Gadi: but if nothing's getting logged...?
12:53
<Gadi>
everything that uses syslog gets logged
12:53
like kernel messages, etc
12:53
<Nubae>
jeez imagine 100 of those
12:53
<Lns>
Gadi: " syslogd does not run in the chroot"
12:53
<Gadi>
correct
12:53
but the syslog client is there
12:53
<Lns>
oh.
12:54
blah :p
12:54
<Gadi>
and will send syslog messages to your syslog server
12:54
<Nubae>
thas y u have to change /etc/default/syslogd on the server :p
12:54* Lns thought syslogd was it
12:54
<Lns>
Nubae: right
12:54
<johnny>
it would be nice if ldm coudl log to syslogtho
12:54* Lns agrees with johnny
12:54
<Gadi>
johnny: yeah - we've discussed that - its just a matter of tweaking it
12:55
maybe in Maine
12:55
ldm.log is not very useful anyway
12:55
so we may just get rid of it - or make it something viewable through ldm interface
12:55
on error
12:55
<Nubae>
the .xsession-errors tell uf far more
12:56COA-MikeyB has joined #ltsp
12:56
<COA-MikeyB>
Anyone here going to LTSP by the Sea?
12:56
<Nubae>
what does ldm.log tell u? if it crashes or not?
12:56* Lns is in favor of using standard logging services for everything involving ltsp ;)
12:56
<johnny>
it tells you what sectino of the login is happening
12:56
Lns, xorg itself has never logged to syslog
12:57
<Lns>
johnny: that's weird..you'd think it would
12:57
<Gadi>
COA-MikeyB: u buying the first round?
12:57
:)
12:57
<COA-MikeyB>
Depends on how many show up;)
12:57
<Gadi>
Lns: syslog is not used for lengthy logs in general
12:57
<COA-MikeyB>
I just heard about it. I live here in Bar Harbor (25 min from SW Harbor)
12:58
<Gadi>
COA-MikeyB: should be about a dozen of us there
12:58
give or take
13:00
<Lns>
lol, a cybertent? :p
13:00
<Nubae>
heh... ubuntu.com meltdown...
13:02
<sbalneav>
COA-MikeyB: Yup, I'm going to be there
13:02
<cliebow>
Hey Mikey!!
13:02
<COA-MikeyB>
Cool.
13:03
Hey there cliebow
13:03
<cliebow>
Howdy!..Gkad you made it..
13:03
<sbalneav>
Gadi: ldm.log's not useful?
13:03
<Gadi>
sbalneav: only because the rest of ldm is so good...
13:04* Gadi creeps away
13:04
<Gadi>
before he puts foot in mouth
13:04
<cliebow>
COA-MikeyB, probably you picked the wrong week to stop drinking 8~)
13:04
<sbalneav>
I agree it should log to syslog though.
13:04
I can patch that up at BTS
13:04
<Gadi>
sbalneav: we spoke about this a bit in portland iirc
13:05
<COA-MikeyB>
I am always prepared for a drink,
13:05
<Gadi>
we should discuss more in Maine
13:05
<sbalneav>
Gadi: right, I think it's just a case of doing it.
13:05pmatulis has quit IRC
13:05
<Gadi>
well, also about whether to expand the use of ldm.log or not and where to provide a dialog to view it from the client
13:05
<sbalneav>
I'm always stymied by the process. I could convert LDM to syslog in like, the next half hour. :)
13:05
<Gadi>
that sort of thing
13:06
<Lns>
for you ubuntu folks.. here's the new entry: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TCSyslogToLTSPServer
13:06pmatulis has joined #ltsp
13:06
<sbalneav>
C's never the problem for me.
13:07
<Gadi>
brb
13:07
<cliebow>
COA-MikeyB, you do any coding?
13:07
<sbalneav>
I'd say viewing on the TC's a nice to have, but it'd be simply much, MUCH more useful to have it just go to the server. It's a dead easy fix.
13:07
<ogra>
sbalneav, can you implement that as a backend function ? my new greeter has a lot of theme debugging functions, i could make that lts.conf switchable
13:08
<sbalneav>
Sure, we could just have a "log" function that either goes to a file, or server.
13:08
<COA-MikeyB>
I am not a coder. I am a scripter at best.
13:08
<ogra>
right
13:09
<COA-MikeyB>
cliebow, I have managed coding projects and modded scripts for it, etc.
13:09
cliebow, I am trying to figure out if I know you or not.
13:09
<cliebow>
i know just enough to be dangerous
13:10
google for chuck liebow..i am the guy with the parrot
13:10Lns has quit IRC
13:10
<cliebow>
you know Andrew Peterson?
13:10
<COA-MikeyB>
Yup.
13:11
<cliebow>
I mentored him in the boating usiness
13:11
<COA-MikeyB>
I used to be the Tech Coordinator/teacher for the Dedham School though from 99-2002 and I teach the summer education technology class at UMO normally.
13:11Eeyore-Jr has joined #ltsp
13:11
<COA-MikeyB>
I was thinking I knew you from one of those parts of my life.
13:12
<cliebow>
i been at ehs since 2000..but part time since i run boat in the summer..
13:12Lns has joined #ltsp
13:12
<COA-MikeyB>
I also did my student teaching at Ellworth High with Chuck Whitney back in 99 also.
13:13vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:14
<cliebow>
i did mine at tremont..
13:14
in err..99/?
13:15
<ogra>
Lns, you are aware that TCSyslogToLTSPServer is completely stating defaults ?
13:15
<Lns>
ogra: well, yes, besides actually enabling syslogd -r on the server
13:15
i'll put that fact in though
13:15
<ogra>
Lns, the /etc/default/syslogd is overriden by /etc/ltsp/syslog
13:15
<Lns>
...oh
13:15
<ogra>
if ltsp-server doesnt ship it, then there is a bug
13:16
<Lns>
if ltsp-server doesn't ship /etc/ltsp/syslog ?
13:16
<ogra>
SERVER and SYSLOG_SERVER default to the bootserver
13:16
<Nubae>
well it doesnt set -r by defaqult
13:16
should it?
13:16
<Lns>
that wouldn't be a good idea imho
13:16DonSilver has joined #ltsp
13:17
<ogra>
/etc/ltsp/syslog should set -r by default, yes
13:17
<Lns>
unless it specified the same subnet as the TC DHCP range
13:17
ogra: i've never seen /etc/ltsp/syslog
13:17
the only file i've ever seen by default in /etc/ltsp is dhcpd.conf
13:17
<Nubae>
and I've never seen /etc/default/syslogd set -r by default
13:17
<ogra>
hm, it should be there
13:18
<Lns>
nope
13:18
:p
13:18
<Nubae>
yeah Lns is right
13:18
not in intrepid either
13:18
<ogra>
damned
13:18
<Lns>
lol
13:18* Lns wonders what other /etc/ltsp gems are left out
13:18
<ogra>
none
13:18
syslog is the only one
13:19
<Nubae>
ogra: btw I changed the ltspquickinstall page to reflect intrepid
13:19
<Lns>
i guess it wouldn't be a good idea to put in nbdswapd.conf by default either then.. ?
13:19
<ogra>
Nubae, yeah, thanks for that
13:19
i saw it (i'm subscribed)
13:19
<cliebow>
Moblin project has already demonstrated a five second boot at the Linux Foundation’s recent Plumbers conference.
13:19
?
13:20
<ogra>
cliebow, yeah, with a lot of cheating
13:20
<cliebow>
i thought as much
13:20CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp
13:20
<ogra>
but they did
13:20* Lns wishes the ubuntu wiki would revert to last viewed page after logging in
13:20
<ogra>
thats the fault of openid
13:20
<Nubae>
is it like vista, where u wait another 5 minutes after the desktop shows up?
13:21
Lns: yeah! that is really annoying
13:21
<ogra>
Nubae, nope, you have a "usable" desktop after 5 s
13:21cosf has joined #ltsp
13:21
<ogra>
but thats i.e. with a kernel that doesnt do sound or networking
13:21
<Nubae>
oh
13:22
<ogra>
lots and lots of fubctions ifdef'd out etc
13:22
<Lns>
thats kind of useless for a lot of situations
13:22
<ogra>
so indeed you can do that, but its not actually something for day to day use
13:22
<Nubae>
well mobile phones dont really need that I guess
13:22
<Lns>
"I can boot my leenux in 2 seconds!" "...So what can you do? " "...Ummm...."
13:23
<ogra>
its for netbooks
13:23
<Nubae>
yeah meant mobile devices
13:23
<ogra>
its a matter of architecture
13:23
<Lns>
ah..that's a good case i guess... like a linux pda
13:23
or netbook
13:23
<Nubae>
but as they get bigger guess its totally silly to have no sound or networking
13:23
<ogra>
if you take an arm CPU for example you only boot it once ever
13:24
it hs the clock separate from the processing unit in the cpu
13:24exodos has quit IRC
13:24nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
13:24
<ogra>
so the clock runs still if you put the device to sleep which means imediate wakeup
13:25
nothing you could do with intel
13:26
<Nubae>
ogra: till when is Jaunty supported? and how long is intrepid ibex server supported?
13:26
<ogra>
ibex -> 18months from now, jaunty 18 months from april :)
13:26
<Nubae>
jaunty is I guess 18 months from launch (april)?
13:27
server though? also 18 months?
13:27
<ogra>
yep
13:27
non lts releases all flavours only 18 months
13:27
<Nubae>
oh, only LTS servers are supported longer
13:27
ok, easy to remember that...
13:28
<ogra>
and lts is every two years
13:28
<Lns>
ogra: what's your opinion on these time-based releases?
13:28
<ogra>
i like them
13:29
<Lns>
right on
13:29
<ogra>
and i agree with mark that ligning up all oss software to the same schedule would win us the price
13:30
<Lns>
ogra: lining up ALL OSS software to the same schedule? That sounds kind of demanding for the entire community to do that
13:30
<ogra>
must not be 6 months, but having reliable and lined up schedules with the same setup of 2/3 development and 1/3 bugfixing only in a cycle would massively improve
13:31
<Nubae>
ubuntu is the leader anyway so the others have to follow suit :-p
13:31* Nubae hides....
13:31
<ogra>
and as you can see, fedora aleady followed the model, kde did
13:32
if you would get kernel and x in such a line you could unebliveable stable and bugfree software
13:32
<dberkholz>
ogra: where the prize is that every mirror hates all of you?
13:33Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
13:33
<ogra>
dberkholz, well,, thats solveable
13:33
<COA-MikeyB>
cya next week whoever is going to LTSP by the sea
13:34* ogra cant :(
13:34
<ogra>
the first in 3 years :(
13:35
everyone please have a drink with ragnar on my behalf
13:35_UsUrPeR_ has joined #ltsp
13:35
<Lns>
Nubae: lol...yes, Ubuntu is the leader.
13:35
<Gadi>
ogra: u bet
13:35
<johnny>
some stuff takes longer to come together..
13:35* Gadi is gonna find a bottle of Papy Van Winkles
13:36
<Gadi>
maybe in NH on my way up
13:36Hyperbyte has quit IRC
13:37
<ogra>
:)
13:38
<Gadi>
any word on whether ragnar needs a lift from nyc?
13:39* ogra has no clue
13:43cliebow has quit IRC
13:44
<Gadi>
!seen mistik1
13:44
<ltspbot`>
Gadi: mistik1 was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 4 days, 22 hours, 52 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <mistik1> take care Jim
13:44
<Gadi>
hmm...
13:45
<Lns>
Where do the TC logs go on the server when remote logging is enabled? I can't find anything in /var/log...
13:46
Is it in the standard files? If so, I don't see anything for my TC :(
13:46COA-MikeyB has quit IRC
13:48
<ogra>
syslog
13:48
<Nubae>
when does the next release name get decided (after Jaunty I mean?)
13:48
<ogra>
no idea
13:48
onl mark can tell
13:48
:)
13:48
<Nubae>
heh
13:49
<Lns>
ogra: weird. i wonder if i have to restart (and not reload) sysklogd
13:49
<ogra>
i usually restart it
13:49
oh, yeah, you have to
13:50
the option gets handed over to the server process as commandline option, its not a config file
13:50
<Lns>
ah... /me goes to mod the wiki page
13:50
<ogra>
so it cant just re-read, the process needs to be started newly
13:50
<Lns>
sounds sane enough i guess!
13:50
<stgraber>
ogra: I just received my EEE 1000, looks really good :)
13:50
<sbalneav>
When I want to rebuild a package with a custom patch, and I want to give it a custom name, what file is it again I modify? debian/changelog?
13:50
<stgraber>
ogra: Installing Ubuntu on it now
13:50
<ogra>
cool
13:50
<Lns>
stgraber: ooo!
13:51
<stgraber>
that's Atheros wireless and Gigabit ethernet :)
13:51
<ogra>
stgraber, tried -umpc on it ?
13:51
<stgraber>
ogra: nope, I'll maybe multi-boot it afterwards, for now I just install a standard Ubuntu (it also has a standard HDD)
13:52
<Nubae>
oooh... e 1000 so its nice, not too big?
13:52Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
13:52* Lns still likes the 701 for the speaker placement...makes a good grabbing surface as well :p
13:52
<stgraber>
Nubae: no, we compared with a Acer One we have here and it's really not that much bigger
13:52
<ogra>
well, its one apt-get remove --purge with a set of packages to to turn -umpc into normal ubuntu
13:52
<stgraber>
Nubae: and I love the non-glossy display
13:52
<Nubae>
oh yeah, nice for people snooping what u are doing
13:53
<ogra>
i used it for my GFs MSI wind clone last weekend
13:53
<stgraber>
ogra: the Wind would have been my first choice but that Asus has the same hardware and was 100$ cheaper
13:54
(and took one day from order to deliver)
13:54
<ogra>
well, clone :)
13:54
its actually medion branded
13:54
<Nubae>
ah... the one hofer was selling
13:54
<ogra>
so it was 369
13:54
<stgraber>
hehe
13:54
<ogra>
with 120G HDD
13:54
<Nubae>
or whateer hoffer is in Germany
13:54
<Lns>
stgraber: how's the performance vs. the 701?
13:54
<stgraber>
medion, that german+swiss brand (I don't think we find it anywhere else)
13:54
<ogra>
yeah
13:54
<Nubae>
Austria ;-)
13:55
<ogra>
in germany its the std ALDI sells
13:55
<stgraber>
Lns: I received it an hour ago, though the lack of SSD will probably make things a bit slower
13:55
<Nubae>
right Aldi is german hoffer
13:55
or better said, hoffer is German Aldi
13:55
<ogra>
heh
13:55
<stgraber>
ogra: in Switzerland COOP is selling Medion
13:55
<ogra>
yeah, we dont have COOP here
13:55
<Lns>
stgraber: ah so you got the (H) model.. http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/03/asus-eee-pc-1000-vs-atom-based-901-vs-original-701-fight/ says it can get up to a 40GB ssd
13:55
<ogra>
died a century ago
13:56
Lns, if you can pay it :)
13:56
<Lns>
integrated bluetooth is awesome =)
13:56
<ogra>
well, dongles are also ok if you have enough spare usb ports
13:56* ogra has a really tiny dongle for his lappie
13:56
<Lns>
ogra: i love the 701 for its 3 USB ports
13:57* Lns does too
13:57
<Nubae>
I appreciate SD and MMC cards now...
13:57
carry an ubuntu desktop in my wallet
13:57
<ogra>
the advantage of a dongle is that you can easily buy something better, with builtin stuff you are bound to the manufacturers choices
13:57
<Lns>
ogra: the SSD version is only about $30 US more..not a big deal, althoguh you get half the space =) I love mine because of the peace of mind of an SSD vs. moving hdd platters...i never have to worry about dropping it :p
13:58
<sbalneav>
I'm trying to rebuild the cups package to solve a problem.
13:58* ogra has an ubuntu live on his mobile phone micro SD
13:58
<sbalneav>
So...
13:58
I do an apt-get build-dep cupsys
13:58
a-ok
13:58
<Nubae>
ogra: me too, cept its in my wallet not in my phone
13:58
<ogra>
intrepid ?
13:58
or hardy ?
13:58
<sbalneav>
Harrrrrrdy
13:58
<ogra>
ah
13:58
because in intrepid it was renamed to cups
13:59
<sbalneav>
then apt-get source cupsys
13:59
that's oK too
13:59
so, thinking to make sure that things work in the "default" state:
13:59
I do a
13:59
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b
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14:00
<sbalneav>
which should, in theory, build the exact same packages we've got installed.
14:00
<ogra>
debian/rules clean might use autoconf or some such, whats the error ?
14:01
<ltsppbot>
"sbalneav" pasted "cupsys unhappyness" (23 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/80
14:01
<ogra>
damned, i would like to get through to cdimage.ubuntu.com .....
14:01
<sbalneav>
it builds fine, but doesn't pass the tests.
14:01
<ogra>
i dont even know if my image landed at the right place, the url was immediately unreachable after release announcement
14:01* Lns loves getting near first post on slashdot stories
14:02
<ogra>
sbalneav, err, you are root ?
14:02
<sbalneav>
yup
14:02
should I not be?
14:02
<ogra>
never build packages as root
14:02
beyond that, the fakeroot would be useless there then ;)
14:02
<sbalneav>
ok
14:02
I'll try it as non-root
14:03
<Nubae>
ogra: yeah noticed ubuntu.com is pretty much in a black hole right now
14:03
<ogra>
but i dont think thats your error
14:03
sbalneav, checked /tmp/cups-root/log ?
14:03
<sbalneav>
yeah.
14:04
<ogra>
wht does it say ?
14:04
<sbalneav>
here's what's in "error"
14:04
root@feniks:/tmp/cups-root/log# cat error_log
14:04
I [30/Oct/2008:13:54:53 -0500] Saving job cache file "/tmp/cups-root/share/job.cache"...
14:05
So, if it's not building the package because it's getting an informational message, /me is sad-face.
14:05
But I'll try first as non root
14:05
<ogra>
yeah, but i doubt that fixes it
14:05
<sbalneav>
Also, look at the report. Got 0 errors, expected 9
14:06
0 debug messages, expect more than 0
14:06
so it's like it's EXPECTING to fail, it works perfectly, and then fails to build because of that :)
14:06
It's TOO good
14:07
lol
14:07
<ogra>
no, its expecting to see debug code output
14:07
well, FAIL: 0 error messages, expected 9.
14:07
it expects 9 :)
14:07
<sbalneav>
rebuilding as a non-priv'd user
14:08
uno momento
14:13
lol, now that's failing because of root droppings in /tmp I don't have permission to. :)
14:13
<ogra>
clean that up
14:14
i guess thats stale crap from the former build
14:14
you should really use pbuilder
14:14
though it costs extra time
14:14
but you can be sure to have a clean build env all the time
14:16
<sbalneav>
I don't know why I'm so (&6(^&%#( stupid that I can't seem to keep all this packaging stuff in my head. Everytime I do something, it's like I start over from scratch. "What the *&^ am I supposed to do again?!" I keep asking myself. Sigh, senility's catching up with me early.
14:17
Oh! It built that time. OK, that was it: don't be root.
14:18
ok. so, if I craft a .dpatch file, and just dump it in debian/patches, do I need to do anything else?
14:18
other than the rebuild, of course
14:20
<ogra>
make sure the package uses dpatch first :)
14:20
<sbalneav>
Seems to, since all the other patches for it are .dpatch
14:20
looks like I have to list it in 00files in debian/patches as well.
14:21* Lns 's brand new (used) server hdd crashed, after 2 full days of working on it :(
14:24
<Nubae>
ogra: who is responsible for the topic header in #edubuntu?
14:24
<ogra>
oh
14:24
err
14:24
me
14:24
<Nubae>
should reflect intrepid and the irc meeting
14:24
<ogra>
damnit
14:24
<Nubae>
and maybe take out the september meeting :p
14:26
<ogra>
do it yourself :)
14:27* ogra just discovered the bbc plugin in totem
14:27
<ogra>
WOW !
14:28
<Nubae>
yeah except didn't work for me :-(
14:28
well not for radio 1 at least
14:28
which is what I really wanted to listen to
14:28
<ogra>
oh, it has radio as well ?
14:28* ogra only tried the TV channels yet
14:33
<Q-FUNK>
bbc plug-in?
14:34
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, yeah, totem in intrepid comes by default with it
14:43
and with a youtube plugin
14:45yanu has quit IRC
14:45
<Q-FUNK>
youtube plugin was alreay there in hardy
14:45
lower quality than the non-free plugin but quite nice to view youtube quickly
14:46
<ogra>
ah, i didnt know
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14:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: a question about the bridge created on initialization of an ltsp server in Fedora: why does it create a network bridge instead of just using a specific interface?
14:52
and what are the ramifications of bypassing the bridge?
14:52
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: all of the services can be enabled safely without worry of fucking a network
14:52
_UsUrPeR_: you can disable the bridge and reconfigure things on a real interface if you want
14:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: do you watch/have you watched the HBO series "Deadwood"?
14:53pmatulis has quit IRC
14:53
<warren>
no
14:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok. Thanks for the answer.
14:54
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: the network bridge also makes it easy to attach multiple interfaces to it
14:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: this all makes sense
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15:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: Not that I am purposely wanting to destroy your handywork, which I admit appears more useful than not, but a customer has requested that the bridge be removed if possible. how is the bridge permanently removed? I have removed all references from /etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ and there is no mention of the interface in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/, yet on reboot the persistent bastard is back. I have also deleted the bridge in System>Admini
15:11
stration>Network.
15:12
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: shit... you're right
15:12
I didn't design a way to remove it.
15:13
_UsUrPeR_: /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ltspbr0 is installed by the package. what happens if you blank that file?
15:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
does removing the file in it's entirety count?
15:14
<Nubae>
damn now edubuntu.org is black holed too
15:14
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: a package upgrade will restore the file if you remove it
15:14
Nubae: huh?
15:15
Nubae: because Ubuntu shipped 8.10 with the broken TCP kernel thing?
15:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: so running yum update will fix this issue?
15:16
<Nubae>
no because everyone is hitting the site for downloads :-)
15:16
its release day
15:16
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: If you delete that file, it might "fix" the issue if you want to get rid of hte bridge, but it will magically reappear later to fuck you when a package update happens.
15:16* Q-FUNK is gonna wait until 8.10.1
15:17
<Nubae>
bad taste from 8.04 eh?
15:17
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: otoh if you aren't using the 172.31.100.x range for anything else, you can just ignore it and reconfigure the services to use network ranges on your real interfaces.
15:17
<Nubae>
Q-FUNK: tomorrow I travel to Graz to drop off the 30 xos and thin can...
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15:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: if the interface is not ltsp-br0, they are virbr0. Does this still fall under your realm of expertise?
15:21
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I think there is an understanding disconnect here
15:22
_UsUrPeR_: virbr0 and ltspbr0 have their own private network ranges and shouldn't bother you at all if you don't do anything in that network range.
15:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
I understand that fully. virbr0 is actually on a network C-class that the company as a whole uses, and I can find no way to manage it, nor remove it.
15:23
<Q-FUNK>
Nubae: oh, nice
15:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
ltsp-br0 was never in existence on the server. Just virbr0.
15:24
and it's taken up the address of 192.168.122.1 which is in the company's scop of use
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15:36
<ogra>
warren, yes, we have put a TCP breakage in 8.10, its called "release day overload feature" ;)
15:37
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: virbr0 is created by the libvirt service
15:37
_UsUrPeR_: if they don't plan on using libvirt or xen, they should turn off that service
15:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: thank you very much. I will inquire, but I assume xen will not see any use.
15:43Q-FUNK has quit IRC
15:51
<johnny>
ogra, i got all 3 versions i needed :)
15:51
even seeded the torrent for hours
15:51
<ogra>
cool
15:51
<johnny>
ppc,amd64,i386
15:51
<ogra>
yeah, ubuntu would be dead for weeks without torrents :)
15:52
<johnny>
i was able to download the ppc cd over a few hours from the site..
15:52* ogra still gets no trace of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ :)
15:52
<johnny>
since the torrent semeed unseeded
15:52
<ogra>
yeah, ppc hasnt much activity
15:52
not even from the community
15:52
i guess even cell has more atm
15:53
(we have a good bunch of active cell developers)
15:56
<Nubae>
ogra: on the Getting Started page of edubuntu.org, there is still a whole guide on installing dapper drake, and nothing for the add-on cd and ltsp server, shall I replace the dapper drake stuff?
15:56
<ogra>
yeah
15:56
<Nubae>
question for u on #edubuntu too :D
15:57
<ogra>
best to just use the HardyClassroomServer page abd s/hardy/intrepid/ or so
15:58
<sbalneav>
\o/ I have a .dpatch that fixes multi-bin printing in Hardy
15:58
<ogra>
great
15:58
<sbalneav>
Now all I have to do is file a proper/find a proper bug report, and post it.
16:04
<warren>
crap...
16:04
"ip addr show to 0/0 scope global"
16:04
the syntax of this command changed in the latest version of iproute
16:04
<johnny>
warren, i mentioned this to you :)
16:05
a few months ago :)
16:05
when stealing your tftp stuff
16:05
<warren>
johnny: what was your solution?
16:05yanu has quit IRC
16:05
<johnny>
i went back to ifconfig :)
16:05
i don't really know how to use iproute2
16:05
never used it manually
16:05
i just use networkmanager.. or my distro's init scripts .. or ifconfig on the cli
16:06gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
16:08
<warren>
hmm, I suppose I only need to change it to:
16:09
ip addr show scope global
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16:13
<ogra>
haha
16:13
<alkisg>
The Ubuntu live cd/installer sure makes a good impression... One can chat while formatting/installing! :)
16:13* ogra took me weeks to get libflashsupport removed from ubuntu for intrepid
16:13
<sbalneav>
ogra: There a webpage that points out the SRU process
16:14
<warren>
ogra: why remove?
16:14
<ogra>
and i just noticed that it returned with a different name from debian
16:14
<warren>
The Solaris installer takes so long, that they provide you a browser to use during the install.
16:14
<ogra>
warren, because flash 10 works fine without
16:14
intrepid uses 10
16:15
but seems debian packages its own version now, called flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound
16:15
which now sits in ubuntu multiverse ...
16:16
no way to get rid of that damn thing
16:16
<warren>
You can blame me for the existence of it
16:16
muhahhaa
16:17
<ogra>
hehe
16:17
well, nothing uses it
16:17
our flash installer doesnt depend on it ... if users istall it its their own fault
16:17
still ... that thing is sticky like dog****
16:18
<warren>
dog**** is not sticky
16:18
try natto
16:18
<ogra>
lol
16:18
<sbalneav>
Ok, all, heading home.
16:18
<Nubae>
libflashsupport saved me in the school I was working with... soundless stations are not things teachers take kindly to
16:18
<sbalneav>
Be on later tonight.
16:19
<ogra>
yeah, it was ok for flash 7
16:19
but broke with 9
16:19
<alkisg>
ogra, what if a user just clicks yes on "A plugin is required to view this page. Do you want to install it?" from within firefox? Is it the same as installing it from synaptic?
16:19
<ogra>
yep
16:20
<alkisg>
ok then, noone will use the other one.. :)
16:20
<ogra>
right
16:20
sadly youtube doesnt trigger it properly ... video.google.com does though
16:21
though the knowledgeable ubuntu user will just go to add/remove and install ubuntu-restricted-extras and get everything in one go
16:21
from m3 to flash
16:21
*mp3
16:21
<alkisg>
Ooops... didn't know that one!
16:22
<ogra>
it installs decss, flash, sun java, msttcorefonts and a ton of ugly codecs
16:22
<alkisg>
Uh... no java for me, thanks! :D
16:23
It's quite OK on Linux, but I had traumatic experiences with it while on Windows
16:23
<Nubae>
would be nice if it installed googleearth... all schools want that and teh medibuntu one never works properly
16:24
<ogra>
googleearth-package - utility to automatically build a Debian package of Google Earth
16:24
;)
16:24
<Nubae>
oh... learn something new every day :D
16:25nicoAMG has quit IRC
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16:28
<alkisg>
Nubae, does google earth run fast on your ltsp setups? What graphics cards do you use?
16:28cosf has quit IRC
16:29
<Nubae>
I use it only with fat clients
16:30
ltsp fat clients
16:31
<alkisg>
Well, my cards are very old, and my thin clients older (no way to make them fat), and I could only make it run OK with a newer nvidia + the proprietary drivers in the chroot... :(
16:33
<Nubae>
sounds about right, though if u had fat client, u probably dont need as powerful graphics cards
16:35chrisinajar is now known as chrisinajar|home
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16:37
<gate_keeper_>
ogra: 1 question. With fat client, if user needs more than 256MBram thats installed on the thin client, does he take the rest of the memory from the server ? :)
16:38
<ogra>
no idea, Nubae is your man for fat clients, i have no clue if it uses nbd swapping or something
16:38
<gate_keeper_>
k,thx
16:39
<ogra>
but its trivial to set up i guess
16:40nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
16:46
<gate_keeper_>
builds nbd image via new chroot /opt/ltsp
16:46
afaik
16:49CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
16:50
<Nubae>
yes fatclient usees nbd
16:50
its just a modified chroot building script
16:50
www.nubae.com - check fatclient link
16:51
it can use swapping if u want it to, though its not set up that way on default, default it uses local swap
16:52
<gate_keeper_>
u mean server swap or .. ?
16:53
<Nubae>
yeah sorry...
16:53
<gate_keeper_>
:)
16:53
k
16:53
<Nubae>
local on the server :p ltsp still trips me up some times
16:53
<gate_keeper_>
:)
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18:26* Lns just got back from a school where nbd_swap issues are causing thinclients to take ~3-5 minutes to boot
18:26
<Lns>
:(
18:27
<Nubae>
Lns: I recently remember reading that that was now fixed, was it not?
18:27
<Lns>
Nubae: is it fixed in intrepid?
18:28
<Nubae>
think so
18:28
<Lns>
heh..go figure
18:28* Lns needs a backport to hardy
18:28
<Lns>
or SRU
18:29
<loather-work>
ok. what happened to using version numbers to describe releases?
18:29marcellodj has quit IRC
18:30
<dberkholz>
that was too easy to keep track of
18:30
just like naming software in a way that you can actually figure out what it does
18:30
<loather-work>
apparently, heh
18:30
<Lns>
hey at least its not v 2008
18:31
<dberkholz>
at least you know whether v2008 is before or after v2007
18:31
<loather-work>
well, in that defense, the ubuntu releases are alphabetical
18:31
the next release will be jumping jackrabbit or something equally as silly
18:31
<Nubae>
and increasing in dexterity, lol
18:31
<Lns>
dberkholz: are you talking about ubuntu?
18:31
<Nubae>
jaunty jackalope actually
18:32
<loather-work>
ok scratch that: infinitely more silly.
18:32
<Lns>
Nubae: you wouldn't wanna look up where you read nbd_swap was fixed do ya?
18:32
It could really help me out...all of my teachers and lab techs are about to say f*ck Ubuntu over it
18:32
<Nubae>
well there is some method to the madness... with every release the animals become more elegant
18:33
ie... warty warthog was pretty bad
18:33
because it wasnt refined yet
18:33
whereas hardy heron and intrepid ibex are a little more decent
18:33
dont know about jaunty though.... that seems to be slipping the upward mobility
18:34johnny has joined #ltsp
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18:44
<jammcq>
hey friends
18:49
<Nubae>
Lns: I'll look, just finishing some edubuntu.org editing
18:49
<Lns>
Nubae: thank you
18:49
hey jammcq !
18:50
Mr. DW himself
18:50
heh
18:50
(I think, right?)
18:51
<jammcq>
hey Lns
18:51
I'm no longer with DisklessWorkstations.com
18:54
<Lns>
jammcq: ah ok
18:54
Who here all uses nbd_swap? How many clients do you use at a time with it turned on?
18:56indradg has quit IRC
18:57
<loather-work>
i use nbd swap
18:57
i've got 30 clients in one warehouse
18:57
but then, my terminals don't swap
18:57
ever
18:57
or if they do it's only to reorder RAM
18:58
<Lns>
loather-work: do you ever reboot the client all at once?
18:58
<loather-work>
yeah, facility has power problems
18:58
happens 1-2 times a week
18:58
<Lns>
loather-work: do you ever notice them hanging while negotiating nbd swap during bootup?
18:58
<loather-work>
nope
18:58
they pass that part right up without a problem
18:59
<Lns>
loather-work: what distro?
18:59
<loather-work>
of course, i'm using a bastard version of ltsp
18:59Ryan52_ has joined #ltsp
18:59
<Lns>
ah
18:59
<loather-work>
the terminals are running the ubuntu 6.10 tarball that used to be on ltsp.org
18:59
and the host is fedora 8
18:59
<Lns>
Ryan52: ah, the guy who helped me identify some issues in the first place :p
19:00
hrm... well I'm pretty sure the issues are lying around line 27 in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup, that's where it dd's the swapfile on the server during client bootup
19:01
Whenever I boot more than 2 workstations at a time, the server chokes while dd creates the files in /tmp
19:01
they're only 256mb files, and the server is a dual quadcore xeon 3.0ghz...so...
19:01
<Ryan52_>
vagrantc: well, I was gonna try and fix that bug that I made (that one error on cleanup), but I still can't get my laptop's virtual machines to work, and my main home developement computer is lagging like crazy because apparently checking out the entire pkg-perl repo takes a lot of processor time...anyway, here's an untested patch that should fix it, if you wanna test it: http://slexy.org/raw/s20hAVmRTO
19:02
<loather-work>
oh, my terminals have a 32M swap
19:03staffencasa has quit IRC
19:03
<loather-work>
Lns: are you using software raid?
19:03indradg has joined #ltsp
19:03
<Lns>
loather-work: nope, it's hardware raid
19:03
<loather-work>
ok. reboot the server with elevator=deadline and see if that behaviour goes away
19:04
<Lns>
loather-work: elevator=deadline? What's that?
19:06
<loather-work>
stick it in your kernel command line. what looks like is happening is i/o starvation.
19:07
deadline is a more efficient scheduler for multiple access patterns which are common on terminal servers
19:07
<Lns>
loather-work: wow, ok...i'll have to try that when i'm onsite
19:07
thanks
19:07
<loather-work>
welcome. it's increased the performance of a lot of boxes i use
19:08
i personally feel it to be a better scheduler for most uses than cfq.
19:08
cfq is great on a desktop, but kinda blows on a server
19:08
and don't even bother with the anticipatory scheduler
19:08
<vagrantc>
Ryan52_: thanks. will give it a try tomorrow.
19:09
<Lns>
loather-work: i've never really delved into kernel scheduling..i'll take your word for it ;)
19:11
<loather-work>
well, this is I/O scheduling :)
19:11
kernel scheduling is a whole other ball of wax :)
19:11
(process scheduling, that is)
19:11
<Lns>
ah
19:11* Lns stands corrected
19:11
<Lns>
Jeez..and in my little world i thought i knew a lot about linux
19:12
i'm consistantly humbled by people around here
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19:15
<Nubae>
Lns: u do, #ltsp is just full of freaks :p
19:15
<Lns>
heh ;) good place for me to be then
19:21
<ltsppbot>
"Lns" pasted "nbd_swap setup in ltsp-client-setup (Ubuntu Hardy)" (46 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/81
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19:22
<Lns>
So that's the swap configuration for clients when they boot... Ryan52 already helped me identify the bashism (quotes needed) in there somewhere..but that "for i in 0 1 2 3 ..." still causes lots of hanging. I hope that elevator=deadline helps with that
19:23
It's specifically during nbd "Negotiation" (client hangs at "Negotiation: " for 2-3 minutes)
19:23
then boots right up after that
19:24
I'm wondering, the: if [ -n $(ps ax|grep nbd$i) ]; then - line, without quotes....will that cause nbd_swap not to function at all?
19:25
since, without quotes, it returns "invalid operator" at the client... with it, it still just hangs at "Negotiation" but doesn't return the invalid operator (given the sh syntax is correct)
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19:28
<loather-work>
arguments to -n or -z should *always* be quoted
19:29
<Ryan52>
arguements to everything should *always* be quoted.
19:29
there's not reason not to. and it just makes problems if you don't.
19:31
<loather-work>
the shell often gets confused if you're doing numeric operations on quoted strings
19:32
<Lns>
Could the absence of quotes be causing the function to fail and nbd_swap not to work?
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19:32
<loather-work>
if the output of the command is empty string, then yes
19:33
empty string != "" or ''
19:34
"" and '' are strings containing the empty string
19:34
(if that makes any sense)
19:34
<Lns>
I couldn't imagine everyone requiring nbd_swap having this broken for them
19:34
loather-work: sure it does
19:35
oh well.. if you guys are interested, i have a (neglected) bug filed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/281498
19:35
I might manually fix that quote issue at my sites and see if they stop locking so much client-side..it sucks big time having people call you about lockups like this, 1/3 of a class, each class
19:36
hrm...actually i've just checked one site and i did fix the quote issue, and they still report lockups...i need to verify swap is actually working at the client
19:37
it's gotta be something else
19:38
well i gotta run
19:38
thx all for the info
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19:44
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: hmm... with the patch applied, it still seems to give the same error.
19:44
(so much for testing tomorrow :)
19:46
<Ryan52>
hrm. glib documentation says this:
19:46
Note
19:46
If list elements contain dynamically-allocated memory, they should be freed first.
19:46
that could fix it, though that would be a really weird error message if that were the problem.
19:48
okay, then I'll fix my dev machines and fix it later tonight.
19:52
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: you using virtualbox for your dev machines?
19:55
<Ryan52>
yes
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19:55
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: what's the problem with getting them working?
19:56
<Ryan52>
it's not virtualbox related.
19:56
<vagrantc>
ah.
19:56
<Ryan52>
it's that the linux system running in virtualbox is screwed up...
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19:59
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: so, you basically need to free each element in the list individually ?
20:00
<kleewyck>
Would anyone know why after entering the boot parms (on the keyboard) an iMac after it's displayed the KDM login screen refuse to acknowlege the keybaord?
20:00
<Ryan52>
vagrantc, I think that's unrelated.
20:00
<kleewyck>
I have tried various keyboard parameters but nothing seems to make they keyboard responsive. I can change the focuse with the mouse. to the password box. just can't put anything in the fields.
20:20
ok, one more question. Any reason while I can get a greeter to come up on the ltsp client when I'm running kdm on the server and not with gdm?
20:24
<vagrantc>
my guess would be KDM is configured to accept XDMCP and GDM isn't.
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20:28
<loather-work>
gdm is a whore. the new versions as shipped with fedora 9 (and presumably the newer ubuntus) are flat-out broken.
20:35
<kleewyck>
I'm funning Ubuntu
20:35
funning? Running.
20:36
yes with KDM I enable xdmcp and set up the Xaccess. on GDM go to gdmsetup.. click the boxes.
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20:49
<warren>
Ryan52: have you seen the ldm crash after your latest patches?
20:49
Ryan52: after logout
20:56
<Ryan52>
yes
20:58
my testing virtual machines broken themselves, so I have to start over before I can fix it...
20:58
and that's what I'm working on right now.
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21:15
<warren>
cool
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21:52
<warren>
Ryan52: I really need to tag ldm-trunk and ltsp-trunk in an hour or so.
21:53
Ryan52: If necessary I can rebuild again later if you checkin a ldm fix.
21:54
[warren@newcaprica ltsp-trunk]$ bzr diff
21:54
bzr: ERROR: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory
21:54
huh?...
21:56
<Ryan52>
almost have my new test vm setup...should have the fix done and pushed sometime in the next hour. (it took a while to download debian..)
22:04
this is rediculous. all I had left to do was copy my old dhcpd configs from my old virtual machine. I try to boot it and I get a kernel panic. -_-
22:05
oh, after a reboot it only oopses...now it works. :P
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22:13
<warren>
Ryan52: ok, I can wait a short while
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22:42
<warren>
Ryan52: I moved ldminfod from ltsp-trunk to ldm-trunk, but you don't need to do anything differently if you don't build a new ltsp-trunk.
22:42
Ryan52: (at least for now, fixing ldm)
22:42
brb shower
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22:56
<Ryan52>
rediculous. after 2 mirrors failing with ltps-build-client, I got one to work. now that finished and all I needed to do was add another interface and reboot the vm. and now it doesn't boot.
22:58
<warren>
Ryan52: virtualbox problems?
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22:58
<Ryan52>
I've tried on both my laptop and on my desktop computer.
22:58
<warren>
Ryan52: tried kvm? upstream kernel, requires no non-standard kernel modules on the host
22:58
generally very stable
22:59
<Ryan52>
I wonder if I can convert my disk image...it takes two hours to get a sid install and build an ltsp chroot.
22:59
<warren>
I dunno
23:00
another drawback is you need to serve your dhcpd and ltsp services on a bridge
23:00
kvm needs to attach itself to that bridge, then you can PXE into yourself
23:00
Ryan52: where is the patch? I could test it myself
23:00
brb
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23:05
<Ryan52>
warren, http://slexy.org/raw/s2JEqWdJi3
23:10
if that doesn't work, then just comment out the g_free that's removed in the patch, test to make sure that works, and be done with it. then I'll work on getting a kvm environment going and fix it the right way later. anyway, it's not gonna hurt to be missing one g_free. We're probably accidently doing it other places...
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23:14
<warren>
Ryan52: extremely short on time, so just commenting it out for now
23:14
Ryan52: go ahead and fix it better later
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