IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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01:07
<vagrantc>
vlt: ltsp-chroot apt-get install $package
01:08
vlt: that will make sure services aren't run for the vast majority of cases, the others are serious bugs.
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09:53
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg?
10:02
<mealstrom>
hi, how to manually set max amount of RAM for lts-client ?
10:02
<Hyperbyte>
mealstrom, max amount of ram?
10:04
<mealstrom>
Hyperbyte: server got about 8 Gb of RAM. and 3 clients eats 1Gb per client. Ive got nbd-swap option. when ram memory is full and data goes to swap - ive got system freeze\
10:07
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, so you want to set the maximum amount of nbd-swap memory a client can take?
10:11
<mealstrom>
Hyperbyte: i want to exclude situation when nbd-swap is needed. So i have to set about 1.5Gb or 2 Gb of RAM memory for each user. Dont know how to do this
10:22
<Hyperbyte>
I do not really understand your question to be honest. This might be due to my limited understanding of nbd-swap...
10:23
But as far as I know, nbd-swap is used for clients with very little memory in the client itself. nbd-swap does not have anything to do with the available memory for applications running on the server, assuming you're using thin clients.
10:24
If you're using fat clients, nbd-swap might be useful if you have clients with very little memory, but then you can't really 'exclude' the situations where nbd-swap is needed, because you'd need it.
10:24
At least that's how I always understood it.
10:24
(correct me if I'm wrong please)
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10:31
<samba35>
which nic support ipxe ?
10:34
<muppis>
Mostly everyone. ipxe is mainly meant for nics that doesn't contain build-in pxe, but can be used wher wanted or needed.
10:35
I use ipxe in multiboot with Windows because it's easier to handle than normal pxe booting.
10:38
<samba35>
ok
10:39
i use ltsp almost 6-7 year back now i want to start again with ubuntu 12.04 server
10:40
do i require boot rom to be program as novell ?
10:40
novell diskless client
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10:42
<muppis>
I don't have any experience from those clients, sorry.
10:42
<samba35>
ok
10:43
but when you boot windows client you don't have to remove rom from nic and program it
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11:23
<jonne>
Hello
11:24
I'm looking for some help
11:24
<muppis>
Just ask.
11:24
<jonne>
I've build a zentyal-ltsp server
11:24
zentyal is a ubuntu server
11:25
however, i can only login with the administrator accounts
11:25
when i login with a user account, it hangs after login
11:28
<andygraybeal>
yay zentyal-ltsp!!!
11:28
brb, don't go anywhere
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11:39
<mealstrom>
is there any oprtion to set max RAM allocation to lts-client?
11:39
*option
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11:56
<alkisg>
!gnome-classic | echo Hyperbyte:
11:56
<ltsp`>
Hyperbyte: gnome-classic: To select gnome-classic as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
11:59
<Hyperbyte>
Does this work for 12.04 as well?
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12:02
<jonne>
should work yea
12:04
<Hyperbyte>
"Failed to load session gnome-classic"
12:04
<alkisg>
sudo apt-get install gnome-session on the server
12:04
*gnome-shell, sorry
12:04
Or gnome-fallback something
12:05
gnome-session-fallback
12:05
<Hyperbyte>
gnome-session-fallback
12:05
Yeah
12:05
<alkisg>
!forget gnome-classic
12:05
<ltsp`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:06
<alkisg>
!learn gnome-classic as To select gnome-classic as your default session, install the gnome-session-fallback package, and put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
12:06
<ltsp`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:07
<jonne>
what is gnome-shell 3.4 for gnome-session?
12:08
is that gnome-clasic?
12:11
<Hyperbyte>
Now it logs in
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12:11
<Hyperbyte>
But it takes a long time (+- 30 seconds) and then displays screen double and with pink/green... I'll take a picture
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12:13
<Hyperbyte>
Funny thing is, when I press ctrl+alt+t for a terminal, the terminal does look okay
12:13
<alkisg>
!gnome-fallback
12:13
<ltsp`>
alkisg: gnome-fallback: To select gnome-fallback as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
12:14
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: ^
12:14
Without installing anything else
12:14
This disables graphics effects, I think
12:16
<andygraybeal>
:)))
12:19
<Hyperbyte>
Hah... that seems to help.
12:22
<jonne>
wb andy
12:28
<andygraybeal>
:)
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12:28
<andygraybeal>
hi jonne
12:28
jonne, i can't wait to give the zentyal-ltsp a shot on my system! i run zentyal, and ltsp.. but not together!
12:29
<jonne>
you should give it a shot yeah
12:29
<andygraybeal>
er, well i mean i have them in the same environment, but i'm not using zentyal's-ltsp
12:29
<jonne>
i'm having a problem though
12:29
<andygraybeal>
it's still in alpha stage right?
12:29
<jonne>
it's official a beta now..
12:29
<andygraybeal>
to come out in version zentyal 3.0?
12:29
ah okay
12:29
<jonne>
yeah
12:29
<andygraybeal>
maybe give #zentyal a shot?
12:30
i hang out there too
12:30
<jonne>
cool thanks
12:30
<andygraybeal>
i'm very happy that the zentyal people are working on integrating ltsp into their packge!
12:30
<jonne>
yeah, me too
12:30
it works great, just one thing doesn't.. at least for me
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12:33
<mealstrom>
any idea how to set 4Gb of RAM to thin client at ltsp-server? any option at lts.conf or something like that? Like nbdswap.conf(SIZE=limit) ?
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12:37
<alkisg>
mealstrom: there's /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf, yes
12:37
<PrA3>
Hi
12:39
Does anybody know if ltsp-cluster is available on Debian Wheezy? I am trying to set it up, but I am missing options like "--ltsp-cluster" when trying to create the chroot. Many thanks
12:39
<alkisg>
PrA3: I think it's not packaged in debian wheezy
12:40
It's probably ubuntu-only
12:41
<mealstrom>
alkisg: and what about RAM size? ive got clients with 1GB ot 1.5 GB of RAM. Also ive got NBDSWAP(512 MB)= enabled. When there is over RAM limit usage(firefox/skype/some video etc) and needed 1Gb and 64Mb () RAM memory goes to swap. With this ive got system freeze for this time. How can i fix this ?
12:41
<markit>
alkisg: hi, how are you? if short to explain, what are you working on related to ltsp these days?
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12:42
<mealstrom>
I can allow client to have 2 or 3 GB of ram per client. Where can i set up this ?
12:42
<PrA3>
thank you alkisg , it looks like I will need to stick with the standalone version and expand the num. of servers then :)
12:42
<alkisg>
mealstrom: you want to limit RAM per client?! Clients don't use server RAM
12:42
Maybe you mean per user?
12:43
Hi markit, basically the ltsp-pnp part, which is now called `ltsp-update-image --cleanup /`
12:43
<markit>
oh, cool :)
12:43
<mealstrom>
alkisg: per user . When i looks top or htop there is amount of ram (per user i suppose)
12:44
alkisg: or just free -m - - ive got 1gb total
12:44
<alkisg>
mealstrom: limiting the amount of RAM per user (or process) isn't something LTSP specific... check man ulimit etc
12:45
But I'm guessing this isn't your _real_ problem, you just think it will help, but I don't think it will.
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12:45
<markit>
mealstrom: btw, are you using thin clients of fat clients setup?
12:46* markit confused
12:46
<mealstrom>
markit: fat and thin. Problem is with thin
12:47
<markit>
mealstrom: thin use server ram, so what is the goal of limit user's usage? have it crash or swap sooner?
12:48
<mealstrom>
markit: i dont limit, i want them to use more memory.
12:48
<markit>
if they run programs that need a lot of ram, you have no choice OMHO. They will use ram and/or swap
12:48
mealstrom: don't they already use all the available?
12:48
<alkisg>
mealstrom: Thin clients with 1 Gb RAM + 512 MB swap have RAM problems?! I don't think you're explaining this well..
12:49
mealstrom: I think the fastest way is to write your whole story in pastebin, and send the link to us
12:49
(or send it to the mailing list if you don't find an answer here)
12:49
<mealstrom>
alkisg: ive got problem when RAM goes to SWAP. I dont know how to test if swap works
12:49
<markit>
mealstrom: thin clients are just "dumb terminal" displaying output of server-executed programs (more or less)
12:49
<alkisg>
!localxterm
12:49
<ltsp`>
alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
12:50
<alkisg>
run "free" inside a localxterm
12:50
You'll see if swap works or not
12:50
<markit>
mealstrom: how much ram does your server has?
12:50
<mealstrom>
swap 512 / free 512 . memory total 1000/used 951
12:50
markit: 8Gb
12:51
<alkisg>
mealstrom: a thin client uses 951 mb ram? Do you have a lot of localapps there, like firefox?
12:51
<mealstrom>
alkisg: firefox (5 tabs), sflphone, evolution... they eats ram
12:52
<alkisg>
mealstrom: are they localapps?
12:52
If not, they would be on the server, not the client
12:52
<markit>
alkisg: thin/fat ram threshold (or whatever spelling it has) isn't defaulted to 348 or something low like that?
12:52
so it should be a fat one
12:52
<alkisg>
(03:46:47 μμ) mealstrom: markit: fat and thin. Problem is with thin
12:52
Aren't we talking about the problems he has only with thin clients?
12:53
Why would he tell us about a fat client RAM statistics if he has no problem with them?
12:53
<markit>
alkisg: I've the feeling he thinks is thin but are not
12:53
<mealstrom>
hm... maybe there is with localapps. ill check
12:53
<alkisg>
He surely needs to explain more :)
12:53
<markit>
well, I usually add confusion so better just read :)
12:53
<bieb>
alkisg: I asked yesterday if there was a way to map any USB device plugged into a thin client to /home/%username% instead of it mapping to /media/%username%. I am using ubuntu 10.04 (changing to 12.04 next week). Vagrantc said it is not possible.. do you have any ideas how I can make this work with a link or something? The issue is when a student plugs thumb drive in and is in word or whatever, its hard to find the USB, because they aren't taught to go to file
12:54
<markit>
alkisg: btw, I could have a problem with printer applet in kubuntu 12.04, I will investigate and, if you have an interest in kde and troubleshoot it, let you know
12:55
<alkisg>
bieb: not in /home/username, as that's their whole home dir, but in /home/username/somewhere/. You should be able to do that, or create a link, with udev rules. But I never use local devices so I'm not the right person to ask about this.
12:55
<markit>
alkisg: btw2, I've tested a WB velociraptor, real fast hd (2x normal sata) just in case you need faster storage cheaper than ssd in big sizes
12:56
(I know you tell me hd is not big issue, ram is and it's used as cache)
12:56
<bieb>
alkisg: so create a link for /home/username/USB that points to /media/username?
12:56
<alkisg>
bieb: sure, you could do that too
12:56
Even with a logon script
12:57
<bieb>
alkisg: the only thing I can think of that may be an issue is it doesnt name each device the same thing
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12:59
<mealstrom>
alkisg: there was no right to change swapfiles (nbd) so users cant put any info in swap.
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13:04
<alkisg>
bieb: if you make the link to /media/username, it shouldn't matter, as it would be a subfolder.
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13:06
<Hyperbyte>
12.04, gnome-session-fallback... there's no logout option anywhere in the panel menu.
13:06
I can log out when I press ctrl+alt+del, but how can I get it in the menu?
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13:48
<mealstrom>
strategic question, if i run build-ltsp-client serveral times what would happen with my existing configuration ? say ive made ubuntu-desktop and now will create edubuntu (with different base dirs). Will i lost first one, i ill be able to select what to boot ?
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14:00
<vlt>
mealstrom: First: It’s ltsp-build-client, second: It will complain about existing chroot image, I think.
14:09
<mealstrom>
vlt: yes, ltsp-build-client. dont want to try on production system :D
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14:15
<vlt>
mealstrom: Have a look at `ltsp-build-client --extra-help`. I think you can specify an alternate base directory for test setups.
14:18
<mealstrom>
vlt: i saw that, but i dont have test system, and im dont want to test this on production server.
14:22
looks like tftp server sets what to boot
14:23
<bieb>
I am rebuilding my 10.04 server moving to 12.04 next week. what are some of the config files I should save from 10.04 for the transition? I am keeping the network config, what else??
14:25
<mealstrom>
what about modifying ltsp-build-client argumets? like --help and -- extra-help to --help-more .. it will be more easy to add like up-arrow then -more . and now from --help to --extra-help it much more )
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15:20
<Hyperbyte>
mealstrom, that's what man pages are for. ;-)
15:21
<mealstrom>
;)you knew the answer
15:25
<||cw>
or just ltsp-build-client --help | less
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15:50
<vagrantc>
hmmm...
15:51
swap, swap swap.
15:51
pesky mozilla-based apps.
16:25
<Mava>
swap a troll ?
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16:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, don't know if you noticed, wouter uploaded a new nbd that creates /etc/nbd-server/config by default :)
16:27* vagrantc cheers
16:27
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, nope, I haven't, is it using the .tmpl file?
16:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yup
16:27
<alkisg>
Cool
16:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, at least, that's what wouter said it would do
16:27
haven't actually checked
16:28
i still think it makes sense to have the tool create that stuff for other distros (presuming it's in the same location?)
16:28
if it's not present
16:28
also makes backports easier to support.
16:29
although arguably we can't do that from postinst, then.
16:29
<alkisg>
ltsp-config nbd :)
16:31
I'm waiting for stgraber to finish packaging the new stuff so that I can properly test them, then I'll do that ltsp-config tool
16:31
<vagrantc>
yeah, that sounds good.
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17:52
<bieb>
I am rebuilding my 10.04 server moving to 12.04 next week. what are some of the config files I should save from 10.04 for the transition? I am keeping the network config, what else??
17:53
<vagrantc>
just save them all using etckeeper
17:53
<bieb>
vagrantc: what is etckeeper?
17:53
!etckeeper
17:53
<ltsp`>
bieb: Error: "etckeeper" is not a valid command.
17:53
<vagrantc>
bieb: a tool to back up your /etc dir in revision control.
17:54
easier to back them all up that be selective and miss something important.
17:54
and you can diff between revisions
17:54
<bieb>
vagrantc: gotcha ... where do I find etckeeper?
17:56
<vagrantc>
apt-get install etckeeper
17:56
<bieb>
vagrantc: apt-get install etckeeper?
17:56
LOL
17:57
I just found it on linux app finder.. was looking at the info
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19:50
<vlt>
vagrantc: Thanks for pointing me to ltsp-chroot. What exactly does it do to prevent programs inside the chroot to mess up the host? Can I do this myself for an install script?
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20:50
<Hyperbyte>
vlt, ltsp-chroot is a script. If you want to see what it does technically, just open it in a text editor.
20:50
But for starters, it makes /opt/ltsp/<chroot>/ the root filesystem, so modifications to the upper filesystem are not possible with normal file operations
20:52
<vagrantc>
also sets some environment variables, that disable certain things ...
20:53
like /sbin/stop-start-daemon is redirected, and /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d also prevents stuff from starting
20:54
<vlt>
Hyperbyte: I know what chrooting is. I need to know more about the part that prevents apt routines to sart or stop processes on my host system …
20:56
<vagrantc>
vlt: ^^
20:56
both the custom start-stop-daemon and policy-rc.d should be installed by LTSP
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20:57
<vagrantc>
you'll want to do something similar if you're using a non-ltsp environment
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20:57
<vlt>
vagrantc: That you. I’ll try to understand what the ltsp-chroot script does.
20:59
<vagrantc>
vlt: why not just use ltsp-chroot in your scripts?
20:59
the older versions of ltsp-chroot were really quite simple, you might want to try and find one of those ... the newer versions do a lot of other things
21:00
<vlt>
vagrantc: If it was easy enough I could do it without installing ltsp on the host system. I’m developing a script that actually installs an LTSP system.
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21:41
<vlt>
vagrantc: Solved. I just needed to create the executable file /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d containing “exit 101”. Thank you.
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23:25
<vagrantc>
vlt: you need it to only exit 101 when chrooted.
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