IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 April 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:50
<sahil>
dberkholz: are you integrating ltsp 5 into gentoo?
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02:03
<dberkholz>
sahil: that's the plan, haven't had time to work on it for a while now... hoping to find time this quarter
02:03
<sahil>
dberkholz: i would like to join the quest if possible
02:04
i have nothing but time
02:04
<dberkholz>
sahil: try porting the init scripts to gentoo
02:04
http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ltsp/ltsp.txt is a place to start
02:04
<sahil>
dberkholz: ha thats exactly what i was looking for
02:05
is there any other information you can supply me or is that what you got?
02:05
<dberkholz>
the init scripts for debian/ubuntu are in a debian/ directory in the ltsp-mainline repo, details on getting it are in that file
02:05
there are 2, both need to get ported over
02:06
<sahil>
looks like i have a lot to learn tonight
02:06
<dberkholz>
the Gentoo/ directory contains some preliminary work on plugins for ltsp-build-client, that's what i've been personally working on
02:06
(in ~dberkholz/ltsp/ )
02:06
<sahil>
i don't need pwd or anything to grab it?
02:06
<dberkholz>
i really want to find time to work on it but i've been doing a ton of writing
02:07
sahil: hm?
02:07
<sahil>
nm
02:07
are you familiar with the mille-xterm project?
02:07
<dberkholz>
you get the ltsp-mainline repo anonymous using bzr, and you can just wget any of my stuff from dev.gentoo.org that you want
02:07
nope
02:08
<sahil>
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9097
02:08
<dberkholz>
don't have time to read it atm
02:08
<sahil>
ha well good luck with your writing thanks for pointing me in the right direction
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03:42
<yanu>
ldm works, but when i log in, i get ldm back, no gnome? someone a clue or url?
03:44
<ogra>
yanu, did you change the IP since you installed ?
03:45
<yanu>
of the server, thats possible
03:45
<ogra>
if so, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
03:45
ldm needs the right keys in place ... else it wont connect
03:46
and make sure your ssh server is running
03:46
<yanu>
do i need to restart the terminal?
03:46
there is no output when i run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys, is that normal?
03:48
<ogra>
yes
03:48
try logging in again
03:49
<yanu>
hmm, openssh-server wasn't installed
03:49
<ogra>
ah, what distro is that ?
03:49
<yanu>
why isn't this picked up with dependencys?
03:49
feisty
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03:50
<yanu>
now it's ok
03:50
<ogra>
ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache show ltsp-server|grep Recommends
03:50
Recommends: openssh-server | ssh, ltspfs
03:50
;)
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03:51
<ogra>
you *can* run it without ssh (not that you should) so its only a recommends
03:51
<yanu>
hmm, same here, ach, ok, i'll write it down
03:54
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices <- in case you want to use local devices...
03:54
<yanu>
ogra: thx allot !
03:54
<ogra>
and there is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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03:57
<yanu>
i did ltsp-update-sshkeys before you said it, maybe this problem can be eliminated, with an output "openssh-server" isn't installed" ??
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03:59
<ogra>
well, i'm planning a rewrite of the login manager, speedier and with a lot more verbosity so you will get some hints in the future
04:00
<yanu>
nice :)
04:00
now, i see X is running on the server (gdm), but i don't want that
04:01
where can i stop this, when booting
04:01
<ogra>
remove gdm ;) or use the gui tool to switch it off
04:03
<yanu>
if i remove gdm, then gnome will also be removed, my card is not nicely configured, i just see a lot of bars on the screen :)
04:03
i can remove gdm from the startup-dir, rc2.d ?
04:04
<ogra>
you can remove gdm without removing anything but ubuntu-desktop
04:05
<yanu>
indeed, no problem to remove ubuntu-desktop?
04:05
<ogra>
ogra@edubuntu:~$ LANG=C sudo apt-get remove gdm
04:05
The following packages will be REMOVED:
04:05
edubuntu-artwork edubuntu-desktop gdm
04:05
well, its a bit differenmt in edubuntu ... but you can just remove it, dont worry
04:06
its easier than fiddling with the rc2 symlinks
04:06
<yanu>
it's done
04:06
<ogra>
if you want it back, just install ubuntu-desktop again :)
04:06
<yanu>
i don't want it on the server, i like to save some ram for the clients
04:07
<ogra>
yup, understandable
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05:20* ogra dances ... ldm starts up in 8secs here \o/
05:23
<cliebow>
WHoa
05:24
<ogra>
cliebow, see my last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/97456
05:24
<cliebow>
yes
05:25
<ogra>
now i just have to shuffle the package selection a bit to not install these and we're back to bearable boot times
05:26
<cliebow>
ill try after breakfast
05:29
gotta get my better half off to work
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06:32
<jammcq>
ogra: hmm, can't wait to get to the office and test the latest mods
06:32
assuming that fixes things, we'll just need to figure out why it takes a full 3 minutes to even get to the LDM stage
06:32
<ogra>
jammcq, well, we might get probs with xdmcp if the fonts are missing, not sure
06:33
but it works fine in ldm
06:33
<jammcq>
I'll test that too
06:33
<blinky_ghost>
hi, does ldm support autologin?
06:33
<ogra>
due to the X proxy we dont need fonts on the client it seems
06:33
blinky_ghost, not yet, no
06:34
<jammcq>
ogra: it's not so much teh X proxy. it's the fact that most every X client is now using client-rendered fonts now
06:34
<ogra>
ah, cool, so that could save xdmcp as well
06:34
<jammcq>
only the old progs, like xterm, xclock and probably xdm use it. GDM should be fine
06:35
I'll test it within the hour
06:35
<ogra>
well, and these use fixed by default anyway
06:35
<jammcq>
true dat
06:35
<ogra>
xfonts-base is still installed
06:35
so function should be guaranteed
06:36
<jammcq>
was ldm going out and taking inventory of all available fonts?
06:36
<ogra>
gtk was
06:36
<jammcq>
how is Debian's LTSP not affected? do they not install those fonts?
06:36
<ogra>
i just straced the C greeter and saw all these fonts rushing by
06:37* jammcq goes to look
06:37
<ogra>
i guess they do install less fonts by default
06:37
also they have a different metapackage for X in etch iirc
06:37
our xorg package just installs all available fonts ... which is fine for a standalone desktop
06:37
<jammcq>
actually, they install them all
06:38
xfongs-75dpi AND 100dpi
06:38
so, it's conceivable there's still more slowness we could squeeze out
06:39
just checked both debian and ubuntu ltsp-5
06:39
ubuntu installs 5 more font packages than debian
06:39
I'll provide the diff in a minute
06:39
maybe there's more we could remove from ubuntu
06:39
and still have success
06:42
> console-setup
06:42
> console-terminus
06:42
> console-tools
06:42
13a17
06:42
> xfontsel
06:42
16a21
06:42
> xlsfonts
06:42
forget about xfontsel
06:42
and console-tools
06:42
and possibly the other console-* packages
06:42
the only difference would then be xlsfonts
06:43
<ogra>
eek
06:43
no
06:43
console-setup and the console fonts are needed
06:44
<jammcq>
yeah, but not used by X
06:44
<ogra>
right
06:44
<jammcq>
so removing them wouldn't help
06:44
<ogra>
and not scanned by X
06:44
right
06:44
<jammcq>
so, the only difference in fonts between debian and ubuntu ltsp-5 is the xlsfonts package
06:44
<ogra>
and we would loose all the localization i just implemented
06:45
<jammcq>
seems to me if we remove the 75dpi and 100dpi fonts on debian, it would make that even faster
06:45
which makes me think there's still other things making LDM slow on ubuntu, besides the fonts
06:45
<ogra>
there is no difference in the code
06:45* jammcq needs to search for some NFS profiling tools
06:46* jammcq needs to eat breakfast and head to the office
06:46
<ogra>
btw, i see the high rsize and wsize values here as well, but all other options are differnt
06:46
i.e. like initramfs defines them
06:47
<jammcq>
I sure don't understand those high values
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06:47
<jammcq>
1/4 mb of ram for each
06:47
<ogra>
xlsfonts is a extremely small split out program that was in xbase-clients before ... its installed in debian as well, just not as separate package
06:47
<jammcq>
ah
06:48
so prolly nothing would be gained
06:48
<ogra>
nope
06:48
but i'm happy for now
06:48
<jammcq>
I'm sure it's a huge improvement
06:48
<ogra>
i'm doing some chroot testbuilds today, if they all are fine, i'm fie to release as is
06:49
<jammcq>
and i'm confident that for Feisty+1 we can make an even bigger improvement
06:49
<ogra>
(thursday is final freeze)
06:49
<jammcq>
:)
06:49
<ogra>
yeah
06:49
<jammcq>
just in the nick of time
06:49
<ogra>
well, that was really a matter of luck
06:50
if i wouldnt have worked on the C greeter (which i actually shouldnt do at the moment, there is enough release crap ....)
06:50
and if that wouldnt have crashed ....
06:50
<jammcq>
good ole strace
06:50
<ogra>
i'm searching for the slowness since pre-edgy
06:50
so it was really luck
06:51
<jammcq>
very handy tool to have in your toolbox
06:51
<ogra>
yeah
06:51
meh ... module-init-tools is broken it seems ... cant build chroots
06:51
grmbl
06:52
<jammcq>
bummer
06:55
ok, heading out. see ya'll in a bit
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07:20
<cliebow_>
ogra: i get exec format error running that
07:21
but for ppc only..guess i know that answer
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07:23
<fgsdfgxcv>
morning
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07:24
<FuL|OUT>
what was the page for the grey X ?
07:24
still have the same issues
07:24
<cliebow_>
!grayscreen
07:24
<ltspbot>
cliebow_: "grayscreen" is No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen#GDM
07:26
<ogra>
cliebow_, yeah, you need to do it on an nfs rw mount from a client
07:26
<cliebow_>
k
07:27
<ogra>
the x86 kernel cant exec ppc binaries
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07:28
<FuL|OUT>
humm
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07:28
<cliebow_>
heh i gather that fairly quickly
07:28
<FuL|OUT>
anyway to debug ?
07:28
i have all options there
07:28
on that page
07:30
humm
07:30
weird
07:30
now it's working
07:30
if i reboot the client
07:30
it will stay the same
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07:53
<jammcq>
ogra: ping
07:54
<ogra>
jammcq, the 1220 boots in 63 secs here after your measuring method
07:54
with a freshly built chroot
07:54
<jammcq>
power-on to LDM prompt ?
07:54
<ogra>
yes
07:54
<jammcq>
sweet
07:55
<ogra>
i didnt know my ipod has a stopwatch ...
07:55
and i didnt know my mobile hasnt :)
07:55
<jammcq>
i'm trying to remove xfonts-75dpi and xfongs-100dpi, and apt-get wants to also remove xorg
07:55
<ogra>
thats fine
07:55
its only a metapackage
07:56
<jammcq>
ok
07:56
<ogra>
i already made the change to the source here ... works as expected just lots faster :)
07:56
and found two new bugs i'm just working on
07:56
... one done ...
07:57
now to make sure all the localdev doesnt start over and over on every new login and your yaboot patch and i should be done
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08:05
<dem>
did you buys try to figure out what takes all that time with bootchart?
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08:08
<cliebow_>
on my old compaq laptp..90 seconds overall..30 seconds is post
08:08
to a login
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08:17
<dem>
ogra, jim: is there anyway we can split the ltsp keys server magic from the ltsp-server package
08:17
<ogra>
why would you do that ?
08:18
its a n integrated whole ...
08:18
<dem>
because my tftp server & nfs, and dhcp each are on totaly seprate boxes from the machines that applications run on
08:19
<ogra>
well, you dont need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys ... you cna populate the keys manually if you want
08:19
<cliebow_>
God this gnome settings daemon crap..
08:19
<ogra>
i agree that the command could use a --server option for that
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08:20
<dem>
yeah, but then it could be done automaticaly
08:20
<ogra>
so you could define additional servers
08:21
automatically means to me that something works out of the box
08:21
<dem>
true
08:21
<ogra>
what you are doing is something that requires manual intervention anyway ...
08:22
so adding options to the manual tools should be the right way, splitting out a separate package fro ~20 lines of shellscript is a bit overkill :)
08:22* ogra gets some food
08:24
<dem>
ogra: it's the debian way :)
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08:38
<FuL|OUT>
Xlib: connection to "ws001.internal.redvo.com:0.0" refused by server
08:38
why is this happening ?
08:38
sometimes it works
08:38
others doesn't
08:58
<cliebow_>
ogra:start to finish on ppc ibook g4 90 seconds overall...30 secinds is post..
08:59
so shaved almost 60 seconds in my book
08:59
<ogra>
yay
08:59
<cliebow_>
yay!
08:59
<ogra>
9 is still to much though, but it should also *feel* a lot faster
08:59
<jammcq>
ogra: it appears we're down from 4:45 to 3:35
08:59
<ogra>
*90
08:59
jammcq, got times for ldm only ?
09:00
<jammcq>
yep
09:00
<ogra>
before vs after `
09:00
?
09:00
<jammcq>
48 seconds
09:00
<cliebow_>
biggest ppc problem is mouse is wicked slow
09:00
<ogra>
48secs only for ldm ?
09:00
<jammcq>
click the log-out button, and it takes 48 seconds for the login prompt to re-appear
09:00
<ogra>
i meant from showing the X to having a login screen
09:00
<jammcq>
I'll check that
09:00
<ogra>
on the 2300 ?
09:00
<jammcq>
yep
09:01
<ogra>
ah, ok
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09:02
<irule>
carlos I installed a SCSI driver on a server, made it work and all was great, then my boss asks me, how can linux read the SCSI drive if its driver is ON the actual SCSI drive that will be read? wtf? can someone shed some light? thanks
09:03* jammcq wonders if irule is in the right channel
09:03
<neuralis>
irule: initramfs
09:03
jammcq: morning
09:03
<jammcq>
neuralis: howdie
09:04
<irule>
jammcq I come here because I am aware that you guys have worked a lot on kernel
09:04
<jammcq>
heh, ok
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09:07
<neuralis>
jammcq turns into a dangerous kernel hacker at night
09:07
true story. i've seen it happen.
09:07* jammcq scares himself some times
09:08
<FuL|OUT>
manage to get the login workin' but it stays suck... or should i leave it.. to try to login ?
09:09
<vanya>
irule, I think BIOS loads GRUB, and GRUB loads kernel using BIOS call. Then Linux kernel has SCSI support compiled in or on initramfs
09:10
<ogra>
that still requires the initramfs to me elsewhere though
09:10
s/me/be
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09:11
<ogra>
you /boot partition should be on a device the BIOS can access
09:12
<jammcq>
ogra: 42 seconds between X appearing, and login being ready
09:12
<ogra>
meh
09:12
i'd have expected more
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09:20
<dem>
grube has a stage one and stage2 boot loader
09:20
grub even
09:21
and then stage 1.5
09:21
stage 1.5 is "drivers" for diffrent filesystems so it can find and get the kernel & initramfs
09:22
<ogra>
ah, right
09:22
i forgot about that
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09:28
<jammcq>
ogra: here's an interesting network observation:
09:29
Ubuntu boots in 215 seconds and transfers 61mb
09:29
Debian boots in 118 seconds and transfers 55mb
09:29
<ogra>
hmm
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09:29
<sbalneav>
Morning all
09:29
<ogra>
i dont think its the 6M ... i think the crux is *which* 6M that are
09:30
<jammcq>
watching iptraf for eth0, which only has the client connected, the throughput rarely goes above 2mb/sec for ubuntu
09:30
<ogra>
well, on the 2300 it might have an impact to use the 6M
09:30
<jammcq>
for Debian, I see spikes of more than 14mbit/sec
09:30
it's NOT the 6mb
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09:30
<ogra>
roght
09:30
<jammcq>
it's the mb/sec that i'm worried about
09:30
<ogra>
right even
09:30
<jammcq>
roight
09:30
<ogra>
*g*
09:31
well, i'm done with the final package for now and ready to upload ... if you have anything i should urgently add please ping today
09:31
<jammcq>
ok
09:31
<dem>
fisty package?
09:32
<jammcq>
i'm already thinking more of feisty+1 or possibly a bug fix after release, if its small
09:32
<ogra>
thursday is final freeze and my sweatheart has b-day tomorrow ...
09:32
<jammcq>
suzie ?
09:32
<ogra>
well, indeed
09:32
<jammcq>
!s
09:32
<ltspbot>
jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:32
<ogra>
yes
09:32
<jammcq>
forgot to do that when scotty signed on. too busy :)
09:32
<ogra>
but feisty will be around for 6 months, so if there is anything ... ping me
09:32
<jammcq>
yep
09:33
<sbalneav>
hey hey hi there
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09:34
<ogra>
!s
09:34
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:34
<ogra>
:)
09:34
sbalneav, i got ldm down to 8 seconds here on my t-1220
09:34
<sbalneav>
ogra: Didn't get a chance to dig into ldm last night, as LaserJock and I were finishing off the handbook last night.
09:34
ah, what was the issue?
09:34
<ogra>
sbalneav, i found the prob
09:35
we load megabytes of unused fonts
09:35
<sbalneav>
This in the greeter?
09:35
Or in LDM itself?
09:35
<ogra>
well, its X that loads them
09:35
<jammcq>
oddly, debian still loads the same unused fonts, yet it's fast :)
09:35
<ogra>
so the loading of X took ages ...
09:36* jammcq is convinced this is an NFS performance issue
09:36
<ogra>
jammcq, well, but it was the cause for my 20sec delay that didnt change no matter what i did to the code
09:36
right, that as well
09:36
<jammcq>
it was 20 secs, cuz NFS was slow
09:36
<sbalneav>
We notice the same slowness with ldm here. On edgy. There a quick fix?
09:36
<jammcq>
if nfs was fast, the delay would also go away
09:36
<ogra>
it was *always* 20 secs
09:36
even if i dropped all code inbetween
09:37
or added tons
09:37
thats the thig that bothered me since pre-edgy ...
09:37
especially because i always thought it was the greeters fault
09:37
whichit apparently wasnt
09:37
<jammcq>
20secs on a t1220 turns into 60 seconds on a e2300
09:37
<ogra>
yep
09:37
<jammcq>
which is huge
09:37
<ogra>
i know
09:38
<sbalneav>
So, this is boiling down to an NFS problem?
09:38
<ogra>
but given that you showed me the HW after all freezes i find we did y good job until now :)
09:38
<jammcq>
sbalneav: that's my theory
09:38
<ogra>
s/y/a
09:39
<jammcq>
ogra: i'm VERY happy with the improvements
09:39
<ogra>
great :D
09:39
<joebaker>
Ogra: I tested an Xubuntu Beta 4 cd last night at our local LUG meeting. The install failed to Built the LTSP chroot environment after some considerable time. This was the alternate install CD. Is there a log file on the system somewhere that I might send to you? Also the LILO configurator didn't give the option to install to SDA, rather since I'd created a MD (RAID one) device across two 40 Gig drives, then created an LVM Volume
09:39
<jammcq>
it's more than I expected, this late in the game
09:39
<sbalneav>
So, we have a fix? What is it? c'mon C'MON Don't leave me in suspense!!! :)
09:39
<jammcq>
sbalneav: remove some of the font packages
09:39
or better, don't install them to begin with
09:40
<sbalneav>
Which, in the chroot?
09:40
<jammcq>
yep
09:40
<ogra>
lilo -> please contact the kernel team, for the log: /var/log/installer/syslog is the ne that has all info about the ltsp build
09:40
<jammcq>
xfonts-75dpi and xfonts-100dpi
09:40
<ogra>
joebaker, ^^^
09:40
jammcq, and -scalable
09:40
<joebaker>
thanks ogra
09:40
<jammcq>
hmm, I didn't remove that one
09:40
<ogra>
joebaker, i suspect xubuntu doesnt ship the -i386 kernel anymore
09:41
so it wont find that package on the CD
09:41SBNet has joined #ltsp
09:41
<SBNet>
anyone awake?
09:41RiXtEr has joined #ltsp
09:43ccjoe has quit IRC
09:44vagrantc has joined #ltsp
09:46
<jammcq>
ogra: saved another 2 seconds... wooot !!
09:47
<Lumiere>
lol
09:47
<ogra>
how that ?
09:47
<jammcq>
i removed xfonts-scalable
09:48
now i'm checking to make sure xdmcp still works
09:48* ogra just thinks jammcq's knuckles degrade slowly from all that stopwatch hitting
09:49
<SBNet>
is there a way to setup a boot image on a cd so that it boots and gets an ip and then loads ltsp, without the dhcp server having any of the image location information. I need to setup a boot cd so students can boot to ltsp without me having to make any changes to my dhcp server
09:50
<vagrantc>
SBNet: you'd be better off providing a boot menu
09:51
SBNet: i.e. configure pxelinux.0 to boot the various different boot options ...
09:51
<jammcq>
ogra: the good news is xdmcp still works :)
09:51* vagrantc wonders if some thing sstart getting ugly without scalable fonts
09:51
<ogra>
and the bad ?
09:51
vagrantc, X apps
09:51* Lumiere yawns
09:51
<ogra>
they will fall back to fixed
09:52
<jammcq>
no bad
09:52
<ogra>
yay
09:52
<SBNet>
ok, well could someone help me with this, i have an ltsp server setup and running, just don't know what to do from there
09:52
<Lumiere>
SBNet: set up clients to connect to it?
09:52* ogra still helps hunting the chroot build breakage ... which is general ubuntu fuckup ....
09:54
<jammcq>
ogra: whiprush is telling me that UDS+1 will be in Boston
09:54
<SBNet>
i need to setup a boot cd so that it connects to my ltsp server, without any changes to my nt4 dhcp server
09:55ccjoe has joined #ltsp
09:55
<ogra>
nice
09:55
i didnt know that
09:55
<jammcq>
that will be GREAT for holding the next BTS in Maine
09:55
<ogra>
yeah
09:55
<jammcq>
fantastic !!!
09:56
<ogra>
:D
09:56
<jammcq>
https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-boston-2007
09:56
looks like Feisty+2 might be another LTS release
09:56
things are looking VERY good these days :)
09:58
<SBNet>
well, i guess i'll have to figure this out on my own then
09:59
<ogra>
that'd mean i have to get ltsp-manager ready .... i want it in the next LTS in any case
09:59
<jammcq>
yes
09:59
<ogra>
full gui support ftw
09:59
<jammcq>
lets spec it for feisty+1
09:59
and +2 will be even better
09:59
<vagrantc>
SBNet: ah, you don't have control of your dhcp server ....
09:59
SBNet: that's a major pain.
10:00dtrask has joined #ltsp
10:00
<SBNet>
i do, but it's a windows nt4 dhcp server and we aren't sure where to put the boot information, so we would like to use a boot cd that has the location of where the ltsp server is on it so it doesn't have to get it from the dhcp server
10:00
<vagrantc>
SBNet: probably your best bet is to configure a CD to boot etherboot images, and use etherboot images configured to get dhcp on an alternate port ...
10:01
<sbalneav>
SBNet: Why don't you simply add another card to your LTSP server. You run a dhcp server on the LTSP server that only serves to that card, and hang the terminal switch off that.
10:01
<cliebow_>
someone say Maine?
10:01
<sbalneav>
i.e. eth0 is your main network, eth1 is the LTSP terminal side, and the dhcp server that's on the LTSP server only listens to eth1
10:01IRCzito has left #ltsp
10:02
<SBNet>
not possible, we don't know where on campus a student might be when they want to boot up a ltsp desktop
10:02
i know how to set it up that way, say thing as a router
10:02
but this is an experiment for a small group of students about 10
10:03
<vagrantc>
SBNet: customized etherboot images on a CD is the way to go then.
10:03
<SBNet>
ok, how would i go about that?
10:03
<vagrantc>
!bootfloppy
10:03
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "bootfloppy" is http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
10:04
<ogra>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP could probabyl help as well ?
10:04
<FuL|OUT>
manage to get it working
10:04
<vagrantc>
SBNet: i think that first site has a CD image, but you'll need to customize it
10:04
<FuL|OUT>
but sometimes the stays in gray
10:04
<cliebow_>
jammcq: looks like Feruary? that would be 2008?
10:04
<FuL|OUT>
if i do a restart of xdm
10:04
it works
10:04
:|
10:04
<jammcq>
cliebow_: no, Oct
10:04
Oct 28- nov 2
10:04
2007
10:04
<vagrantc>
SBNet: because those etherboot images use standard dhcp ...
10:04
<jammcq>
cliebow_: PERFECT timing for us
10:05
<cliebow_>
ah i see..wonder what that Feb 29 thinie is on ;launchpad/
10:05
<jammcq>
i'm guessing it's just a stock icon
10:05
<cliebow_>
Godfrey..that's a relief..i was worried everyone was going their seperate ways...
10:05
<jammcq>
confusing tho
10:06
<cliebow_>
you cant imagine what this group means to me
10:06
<jammcq>
cliebow_: once we get the dates nailed down for BTS we'll contact David Lloyd
10:06
<vagrantc>
SBNet: the other option would be to put the kernel and initrd on the CD itself... which might actually be easier.
10:06* cliebow_ cliebow's eyes tear up
10:06
<vagrantc>
SBNet: but then if you upgrade the kernel, you have to update the CDs too
10:06
<SBNet>
what ever would be easiest
10:07
i don't think it will be upgraded
10:07
<vagrantc>
SBNet: what you want is not anywhere near the realm of easiest :P
10:07
<SBNet>
maybe once a year, durring the summer, when no one is at school
10:07* ogra really thinks using the windows dhcp would be easiest
10:07* Lumiere really thinks blowing up the windows box would be easiest
10:08nf1 has quit IRC
10:08
<cliebow_>
SBNet: windows dhcp works ok..excpet for ppc
10:08
<SBNet>
if i had my way it would be linux, but we can't do that right now, i'm pushing for a pure linux server environment within 5 years, they just bought all new windows server 2003 boxes and just switched from nt4dom to ads
10:08
<sbalneav>
SBNet: Did you see the link that ogra pasted, for how to add the bits to your windows dhcp server?
10:09
<SBNet>
no i just got it though
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10:11
<SBNet>
how do i make a temporary "ram" drive to load this image into so i can edit it's setting, sorry, no floppys on this campus at all, we removed them last year
10:12
<sbalneav>
Download the image, then do a "mount -t vfat -o loop floppy.img /mountpoint"
10:13
<SBNet>
ok
10:13
<sbalneav>
Or, you could add the bits to your dhcp server
10:15* dtrask thinks windows dhcp sucks
10:15
<vagrantc>
hmmm... xfonts-scalable is a dependency of the xorg metapackage ...
10:15* dtrask agrees with Lumiere and will furnish the dynamite
10:16
<SBNet>
brb
10:16
<ogra>
vagrantc, right
10:17
<vagrantc>
the easiest thing would be to skip LTSP and run a livecd, if that's really the environment...
10:17
<ogra>
the 000-baseconfig list gets a tad longer
10:17
<vagrantc>
for 2 seconds? hm...
10:17* ogra bzr pushes the last changes for vagrantc
10:17muh2000_ has quit IRC
10:18
<vagrantc>
ogra: actually, i want to move all the junk we have in 000-baseconfig into package dependencies
10:18
<ogra>
vagrantc, its in my recent changes and its 20 seconds here
10:18
not 2
10:18
i wouldnt make fuss around 2 secs :)
10:18
<vagrantc>
ok, for 20 seconds, sure.
10:18
<dtrask>
2 secs! Wheee!
10:18
LOL
10:19
<ogra>
apart from that jammcq found heavy differences in ubuntu vs debian nfs speed
10:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: this goes with my master plan of ltsp-client-core :)
10:19
<ogra>
yeah ...
10:20
<vagrantc>
ogra: we put all the packages we want into ltsp-client as a dependency, and then split out the core functionality into ltsp-client-core
10:20
since etch is in a hard freeze, i should start working on new stuff again :)
10:20
<ogra>
well, thats what the metapackage was thougt for initially ...
10:20
(ubuntu-thin-client ... should ahve had a debian-thing-client as well)
10:21
but i didnt make ay use of it yet and you dropped it ;)
10:21
s/ay/any/
10:21
<vagrantc>
well, it was only a recommends...
10:21
<ogra>
yeah its nonsense as is
10:21
<vagrantc>
a recommends on something that didn't even exist :)
10:22
<ogra>
but my plan was to have a ubuntu-thin-client-server and a ubuntu-thin-client metapackage at some point
10:22
where -server will depend on ssh and all the stuff we have in recommends for ltsp-server atm
10:22
<vagrantc>
i'm amenable to that...
10:22
<ogra>
so you only have to install a single package
10:22
<vagrantc>
though why brand it with ubuntu?
10:23
<ogra>
which could later even include the gui parts
10:23
because it was already branded :) i dont care, we can drop it
10:23
but that would also help the naming switch ltsp->thin client server
10:24
<vagrantc>
ah.
10:24
then ltsp could be just one thin-client implementation amoung all the others :P
10:24
<ogra>
so we still have ltsp packages ... but expose them to the user as thin-client-something
10:25
<vagrantc>
i'm down with that
10:25* dtrask raises glass
10:26
<dtrask>
me too
10:26
:-)
10:26
<ogra>
the fonts stuff is in revision 512 btw ....
10:26
<jammcq>
just so long as we call it Gnu/Ltsp/thinClient server
10:27* dtrask has to get back to work...school would be great if it wasn't for the kids ;-)
10:27* ogra wants stallman_approved/Gnu/Ltsp/thinClient server
10:27
<dtrask>
LOL
10:27
cya
10:27dtrask has quit IRC
10:27
<ogra>
ciao dtrask
10:27
bah ... to slow
10:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: after my hard drive failed, i haven't been keeping track of all the bzr branches ... have you updated mainline in a while?
10:28
<ogra>
nope
10:28
will do soon ...
10:28
<vagrantc>
post feisty release, or before?
10:28
<ogra>
currently i worked on feisty-ltsp
10:28ccjoe has quit IRC
10:28
<ogra>
i can do it before but not check for breakage
10:28
<SBNet>
ok, i'm trying to mount this to ram0 and it taint working
10:29
<ogra>
time is just to short ... and i was actually expecting to have a coworker already
10:30
<sbalneav>
SBNet: It might help us to know EXACTLY what commands you're trying to execute.
10:30
<SBNet>
su -c "mount -t vfat -o loop eb_on_hd.ima /dev/ram0
10:30
<jammcq>
why /dev/ram0 ?
10:31
<vagrantc>
SBNet: what are you trying to do?
10:31
<jammcq>
you do NOT need /dev/ram0
10:31
just give it a normal mount point, like /mnt
10:31
<SBNet>
mount it to a ram location, since it won't actually be used, i only have one, cdrom!
10:31
lol
10:31vanya has quit IRC
10:32
<jammcq>
the '-o loop' will take care of doing the ram magic
10:32
<SBNet>
ok
10:32
<sbalneav>
jammcq: Pass me my boxends, this wing won't fit on my F14
10:32
<jammcq>
sbalneav: socket wrenches is what you need
10:32
<sbalneav>
Ah, that's my problem.
10:33
<SBNet>
ok i got it
10:34* ogra thought an adjustable monkey wrench would do better
10:34
<SBNet>
now where would i put the info to point to the ltsp server
10:34
<jammcq>
ogra: left-handed adjustable monkey wrench
10:34
<ogra>
lol
10:34
<jammcq>
sbalneav: you don't
10:34
we get the info via dhcp
10:35
<joebaker>
ogra: I don't think the problem is LILO's fault that I encountered yesterday. It would be the part of the installer that configure's lilo. What's the installer called?
10:35
<ogra>
debian-installer
10:35
<joebaker>
thanks
10:36
<ogra>
you probably want to talk to cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel he was the d-i maintainer until recently
10:38* ogra takes a long break
10:39ccjoe has joined #ltsp
10:39
<SBNet>
anyone know where i would put information to where the ltsp server and boot images would be?
10:40
<vagrantc>
SBNet: what distro are you running?
10:40
you'd need to put in in pxelinux.cfg/default on your tftp server
10:40
<SBNet>
i'm running fc6 on this box, but i'm working on this etherboot disk, trying to figure out where to add the information to make the etherboot image boot from the ltsp
10:41Avatara has quit IRC
10:41
<vagrantc>
SBNet: you'll have to regenerate all the etherboot images to support dhcp on an alternate prot
10:41
port
10:42
<SBNet>
how would i go about that?
10:42
<vagrantc>
SBNet: what do you really want? i mean... what is your goal ... ?
10:42
in a very general sense...
10:42irule has quit IRC
10:43
<SBNet>
to have a bootcd that students can use anywhere on campus to boot up to an ltsp desktop as certain computer science classes use linux, so only about 10 people would be using this box at any one time
10:44
<vagrantc>
why do you want to use ltsp?
10:44
why not just use a livecd ?
10:45
<jammcq>
yeah
10:45
that's the way to do it
10:45
<SBNet>
because their information is for their class so the teacher will be adding different things throughout the course and they have to be able to access the same mysql db and server pages no matter where they are
10:46
<jammcq>
use a livecd, point the Xserver to log into the LTSP server
10:46
it's not hard
10:46
<SBNet>
if ltsp works the way we want off a bootcd, then we will most likely make all our labs use ltsp
10:47
if it's not hard, how would i set it up in the livecd
10:47
<jammcq>
on the live cd, where it launches X, you need to do: Xorg -query <ip_of_ltsp_server>
10:48
<SBNet>
ok
10:48
<vagrantc>
and if you really want to demonstrate how LTSP works, you should set up a second network card and set up at least 1 machine running off the server...
10:49
<SBNet>
well, we can do that no problem i have a fc6 router on the dorm network that we use for dynamic computer registration
10:49
so i can do that with no problem, but we are only looking into differnet things to use now and maybe put in over the summer
10:50
<vagrantc>
well, if you want to show how easy ltsp is to use, setting up a boot cd is the most complicated way you could come up with :)
10:51
LTSP is really easy as long as you have control of your dhcp server
10:51
<SBNet>
i know, but we can't do an entire lab with it cause many people around here won't like a switch to linux only desktops, so we are starting with a class that uses bootcds, then a lab and servers and then from there
10:51
<vagrantc>
you can do dual boot over the network
10:51
<SBNet>
we do, but we are still looking into where to add the image information to it so all computers on the network get it, not just one
10:51
<vagrantc>
that would be the easiest way to go
10:52
SBNet: these machines have windows on the hard drive?
10:52
<SBNet>
yeah
10:53
<vagrantc>
so you could set up a network boot menu that gives the option of running locally or LTSP
10:54
locally being the windows on the hard drive
10:54dtrask has joined #ltsp
10:54
<vagrantc>
that's probably by far the easiest way to go
10:54
<SBNet>
ok, that's fine i guess, was wanting so they always boot locally unless the cd is in, then the cd boots which boots directly to ltsp
10:55
well, if i had instructions on how to do it, i would, but i don't know how, i've only done dual local boots never boots over the network
10:56
<vagrantc>
well, you can set it up so they boot to windows or LTSP by default ... you maintain all the configuration on your server. all you need to do is configure the machines to enable PXE boot- any recent machine will most likely support it.
10:57
<sbalneav>
The only issue holding you back is adding the stuff that LTSP needs to the windows dhcp server. After that, a cdrom etherboot image will do exactly what you want.
10:57
<vagrantc>
that too
10:57
<SBNet>
well, we are working on figuring out how to add the ltsp info to the dhcp server
10:58
<jammcq>
and... the things you need to add won't disrupt the windows boxes
10:58
<SBNet>
i would use the static mac instructions but then that would have to be for every computer on campus, hundreds!! so one general thing
10:58
<vagrantc>
nah, go dynamic dhcp
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11:39
<cliebow_>
adding the ltsp pieces to windows dhcp is pretty trivial..til you get to nnetvista and Macintosh'
11:47gepatino has joined #ltsp
11:49
<SBNet>
we are using windows server 2003 and i'm going to look at it in about 30 mins or so it try and find the boot server and boot image places
11:52cor3 has joined #ltsp
11:52
<cor3>
Scott Balneav? Can you recommend some low cost thin clients I can order north of the border?
11:54
anyone?
11:57
<SBNet>
sorry don't know of any
11:58
<cor3>
Blarg. I know scott uses a bunch at the legal aid centers in wpg
11:59gepatino has quit IRC
11:59
<cor3>
just hoping to learn of where I can get my hands on some
11:59
<cliebow_>
SBNetoptions 17 and 67 with 66 and 12 thrown in
12:00metztlixictli has joined #ltsp
12:00
<vagrantc>
cor3: might get them from disklessworkstations.com
12:01
cor3: but that's south of the border, i think
12:03
<cor3>
k
12:03
thanks for the info
12:14cor3 has left #ltsp
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12:36
<SBNet>
alrighty, whos ready for a good question?
12:36
<cliebow_>
me me me
12:37
<SBNet>
nevermind, i went digging in my ltsp server and found my answer sorry to disappointyou
12:37
<cliebow_>
dang...
12:43twinprism has joined #ltsp
12:48
<SBNet>
ok, you want a question, i got one for ya
12:49
ohhh now you don't wanna answer my question since i've got one!!!
12:54
<cliebow_>
im busy!
12:55
not really..but i prob cant answer anyway
12:55
<SBNet>
i've got my server setup to do the boot options but when it does the tftp image, it comes back saying it can't locate the image
12:55
or times out i should say
12:56
<cliebow_>
lemme look in my win dhcp..option 67 looks like
12:57
you do know win dhcp pads the root-path right?
12:57
<SBNet>
mine is: /lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-1/pxelinux.0
12:57
nope never done this before
12:57
<cliebow_>
i vcould swear it is on the wiki..
13:00
http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/contrib/parallel_dhcp.txt
13:01
anyway option 66 is ipofserver
13:01
option67 looks ok
13:02
II. You can use the Windows DHCP server with some tweaking.
13:02
1. Create the symlink /opt/ltsp/i386000 to point to /opt/ltsp/i386. This is
13:02
because we've seen Windows DHCP servers zero-pad root path strings.
13:02
2. Set the bootfile (option 67) and rootpath (17), options to the
13:02
location of the kernel and the root path respectively
13:02
<SBNet>
yeah my ltsp server is 10.40.0.29, umm option 17 is /opt/ltsp/i386 and op 67 is /lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-1/pxelinux.0
13:02
<cliebow_>
and 66?
13:03
<SBNet>
10.40.0.29
13:03
<cliebow_>
my option 17 (forltsp-4.2) is ipofserver:/opt/ltsp/i386
13:03
<SBNet>
does it help if i'm trying to tftp to it, connect but can't run get lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-1/pxelinux.0 without it timing out
13:04
<cliebow_>
but the simlink above is important
13:06mistik1 has quit IRC
13:06
<SBNet>
i've been trying to just get a file from the tftp server and i can connect, but beyond that if i try to get it times out
13:06cliebow_ has quit IRC
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13:13
<SBNet>
he's back!
13:18* dtrask offers cliebow and SBNet some dynamite for their Windows DHCP servers
13:19
<dtrask>
:-)
13:19RiXtEr has quit IRC
13:19
<cliebow_>
dtrask:you have an addy fpor chris johnson?
13:20bricode has joined #ltsp
13:20
<dtrask>
cliebow_: love the name of your server "smoothwallkludge"
13:20
ummm hang on
13:20
<cliebow_>
sandbox it is
13:20bricode has left #ltsp
13:20
<cliebow_>
it was this one i was using ldap for smoothwall groups
13:20bricode has joined #ltsp
13:22
<dtrask>
cliebow_: ckjohnson_AT_gwi.net
13:22
<cliebow_>
k..thanks
13:23
when is registration from unh open?
13:23
errr for
13:26
<dem>
cliebow_: we have no issues with windows dhcp here
13:26cliebow__ has joined #ltsp
13:26
<dem>
we use hpa-tfp on diffrent machine
13:26
<cliebow_>
dem: how about netbooting ibooks from windows/
13:26
<SBNet>
hey i got it booting, jut got to setup nfs on the machine, can't find the drive to mount
13:27
<cliebow_>
SBNet:remember that simlink
13:27
<dem>
why not, you can't use pxelinux
13:27
<cliebow_>
not with an ibook you cant
13:28
<SBNet>
my first issue was that it couldn't fine the server so i put this for 17 10.40.0.29:/opt/ltsp/i386, found the server but couldn't mount so now to nfs
13:28
<cliebow_>
dont forget that simlink
13:29
<SBNet>
ok how do i setup the nfs share for the thing, it's on but i don't see where the config program for it is
13:30
<cliebow_>
config for what??
13:30
<SBNet>
to tell the nfs server what directory to share out
13:30
<cliebow_>
/etc/exports..but it is prob all set up for you
13:31
your prob i think is that windows pads the nfs request
13:32
<SBNet>
well my machine is a fedora core 5 virtual machine and the computer connecting is an hp laptop using pxe boot
13:32
restarting my vm box to make sure everything went right and i had to add the stuff to export
13:33
<cliebow_>
f you specify /opt/ltsp/i386 in windows dhcp..it looks to linux like it is asking for /opt/ltsp/i386000
13:33
so you need to ln -s /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386000
13:34
<SBNet>
ok, when it gets up and running again, i will
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13:35
<SBNet>
in my pxe boot output it said it was looking for 10.40.0.29:/opt/ltsp/i386 so maybe its right or not, i'll see in a minute
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13:42
<SBNet>
it boots but said it couldn't find lts.conf so i'm reading lts.conf.readme, didn't know i had to do that, IT WASN'T IN THE MANUAL!!!
13:42
lol
13:43
<cliebow_>
is this 4.2?
13:43
must be..
13:43
<SBNet>
that is what everyone told me to get to that's what i installed
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13:43
<cliebow_>
it is wicked fast..
13:44
Manual..there's a manual?
13:44
<SBNet>
yeah the like half page of install and setup instructions
13:45
:D
13:45
<cliebow_>
there is a LOt of information on the wiki..
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13:49
<SBNet>
cool looks like my fedora core 5 box!!!!!!!!
13:49
<cliebow_>
Of course..It IS your fedora box
13:50
you should have seen my first Macintosh booting to redhat7
13:50
<SBNet>
ok, so i just create a user on the fedora box and ltsp will inherit the user?
13:50
<cliebow_>
via ltsp
13:50
<SBNet>
lol
13:50
<cliebow_>
it Is the fedora box 8~)
13:50
<SBNet>
whats cool is my laptop graphics actually work!!!!
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13:51
<SBNet>
just check don't get testy this is really cool!!!! lol
13:51
<cliebow_>
hook your redhat box to ldap and of a sudden all users can authenticate
13:52
wnat to add the nesest openoffice..put it on the server and all terminals instantly have it
13:52
<SBNet>
see we are using ads and i haven't been able to get that working, been doing it for a while. think i might just setup a separate ldap server that just gets usernames and password from the ads server and ldap is used by linux while windows uses ads
13:52
<cliebow_>
something like that
13:52
<SBNet>
since i can get all usernames and passwords from ads with one command
13:53
<cliebow_>
or use winbind..we did that a few years
13:53
<dtrask>
cliebow_: Sorry....school let out....had to get the kids outta' here. UNH opens hopefully in a week or so...we're still waiting them
13:53
You gonna' come?
13:54
<cliebow_>
i dont know..they were thinking of budgetting..but they just cut out my laptopand a chair for me..
13:54
<SBNet>
no one would happen to know how i can burn this etherboot floppy image to a cd would you
13:54
<dtrask>
cliebow_: What! They still won't buy you a decent laptop?...GEEZ!
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13:55
<cliebow_>
i thought there was a prebuilt universal cdrom but i may be wrong
13:55
<SBNet>
haven't seen it
13:55
!bootcd
13:55
<ltspbot>
SBNet: Error: "bootcd" is not a valid command.
13:55
<cliebow_>
plus they cut out two positions in it
13:55
<SBNet>
!bootcdrom
13:55
<ltspbot>
SBNet: Error: "bootcdrom" is not a valid command.
13:55
<SBNet>
!bootdisk
13:55
<ltspbot>
SBNet: Error: "bootdisk" is not a valid command.
13:55
<dtrask>
cliebow_: If I were there I'd make sure you have an awesome lappy :-)
13:55
<SBNet>
!bootfloppy
13:55
<ltspbot>
SBNet: "bootfloppy" is http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
13:55
<SBNet>
see
13:56
<cliebow_>
i appreciate that..i do have the g4 no one else can use..and a junk box full of parts..so im set for another year'
13:57
<dtrask>
cliebow_: just bought myself a Nokia N800 (Linux internet tablet) so I can travel lighter...and manage my server while sitting on the loo ;-)
13:57
<cliebow_>
dtrask:we cut boot times on the g4 in ltsp5 from 150 sec to 90
13:57
ill say ogra did
13:58
<dtrask>
cliebow_: G4 as a server?
13:58
<cliebow_>
that includes the g4 mucking around trying to figure out what the hell to do for 30 seconds
13:58
no client
13:58
But..it could just eas easy be a server
13:58
i built the chroot on it..
13:58
could server i386 from it iof you like
13:59
that is..a g4 running linux..not other..
13:59
<dtrask>
cliebow_: where did it hang?
14:00
<cliebow_>
ldm
14:00
well..seemed to hang loading fonts
14:00
<dtrask>
ahhh....I suspected
14:00
how'd you get around it?
14:00
<SBNet>
how can we get openoffice on here?
14:01
<cliebow_>
oh.wait a day and the new should be ready to try
14:01
openoffice on what/
14:01
?
14:01
<SBNet>
ltsp
14:01
i guess install it on my host?
14:02
<cliebow_>
id think..your enot trying as a local app or anything
14:02
<SBNet>
ok
14:02
<cliebow_>
oops..SBNet oo isnt there by default?
14:03
<SBNet>
no, it's an fc5 barebone install
14:03
<cliebow_>
get the rpms from openoffice.org..
14:03
<SBNet>
i will just have to yum them
14:03
<cliebow_>
sure
14:04
dtrask:just dont leave it on the sidewalk for some dude living in the can will have it
14:05
<bricode>
Anyone familiar with the ltsp-build-client --mirror file:/// swtich?
14:06
<dtrask>
cliebow_: LOL
14:06
<cliebow_>
i am not..
14:06
that was a close one
14:06
<dtrask>
cliebow_: Good point....I still relive that moment every now and then...goes to show nothing beats a good ID tag
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14:11
<cliebow_>
that is for sure
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14:13
<bricode>
ogra: Does the cdrom mirror require the alternate boot cd?
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14:29
<SBNet>
anyone know where i can get a universal etherboot cd?
14:30
kinda like their floppy on cd
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14:55
<SBNet>
ok, need a boot image that can boot a dell 2400 with onboard nic
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15:48
<dem>
jim, i got to figure out how to integrate my code into ldm, and we'll have a 0.1 load balancer
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15:49
<dem>
code pretty simple, clean too
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16:20
<mistik1>
dem: what you got there buddy?
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17:46
<yhan>
hi
17:47
is that a way to use an oss module with alsa ?
17:47
on my term, I have a cyrix 5530 chipset, and I ony have a driver for oss
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21:59
<rjune>
yojimbo!
21:59
jammcq: hey man
21:59
<jammcq>
hey, look who shoed up
21:59
<rjune>
I shoe up pretty good
21:59
<jammcq>
how ya been ?
22:00
<rjune>
busy as all hell
22:06
I've been using GNOME lately though
22:06
How you been?
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22:06
<sbalneav>
Evening all
22:06
<jammcq>
!s
22:06
<ltspbot>
jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:08
<rjune>
hey scotty
22:08
<sbalneav>
Hey rjune
22:08
Long time no see!
22:08
Whatcha up to?
22:09
<rjune>
work work work
22:10
found that beagle is badass
22:10
<jammcq>
oh jeez, he's drinking the Suse coolaid
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<rjune>
heh
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22:19
<rjune>
you don't like beagle?
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