IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 January 2015   (all times are UTC)

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06:04
<austrian>
I'm looking for a little clarity from anyone on using bennabiy's ppa for building a mint chroot. I'm new so please forgive the ignorance. Steps: 1. install ubuntu 14.04 server, 2. add ppa to sources, 3.??? If I apt-get install ltsp-server, won't that pull the stardard ltsp package? How do I use the mint sources that are found in the ppa?
06:05
<alkisg>
austrian: try ltsp-pnp, it works fine with linuxmint 17 without using any ppa
06:05
!ltsp-pnp
06:05
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
06:06
<alkisg>
I don't know about bennabiy's ppa, I haven't seen him for a while
06:06
!seen bennabiy
06:06
<ltsp`>
bennabiy was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 0 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <bennabiy> vagrantc: you here?
06:06
<austrian>
I plan on trying ltsp-pnp but I want it on a headless server first.
06:07
<alkisg>
austrian: put ltsp-pnp somewhere else, e.g. in a vm instead of a chroot, build the i386.img ltsp image, and then transfer it to your headless server
06:07
Managing VMs instead of chroots should be easier :)
06:08
<austrian>
I've gone off the deep end and have the ltsp server as a virtual machine. The server running all of my 43 servers in a atom based cpu with very little horse power left for graphics.
06:08
<alkisg>
You don't need to *start* graphics
06:08
You can have a real linuxmint installation in your headless server, and just not run graphics whenever you don't want them
06:08
<austrian>
alkisg: Hmmm. That's an interesting idea. You've got me thinking.
06:09
<alkisg>
I.e. if you're doing it for RAM reasons, you're doing it wrong :)
06:09
headless is for security people, that think that having xorg installed is a security issue
06:09
<austrian>
I've given 4 gigs to the ltsp vm. Seems to run the 24 clients fine.
06:09
<alkisg>
Lets start with the most significant question, "what are your client specs"?
06:10
I.e. will they run as fat (recommented) or as thin?
06:10
<austrian>
Running as fat.
06:10
Fanless AMD units with 8 gigs of ram.
06:10
<alkisg>
Then do it as I'm suggesting, it will be much better for you in all accounts
06:10
1) install linuxmint in a vm, with graphics and everything
06:11
2) put ltsp-pnp in it, create image etc, have ltsp completely ready
06:11
3) start saving ram :)
06:12
<austrian>
Ok. So have that headless ltsp server as is.... Use the .img file generated from the Mint ltsp-pnp machine?
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06:13
<austrian>
Or replace the headless completely?
06:13
Does the lts.conf file configurations work the same on ltsp-pnp?
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06:19
<alkisg>
austrian: replace the headless completely, it doesn't help you anywhere
06:19
lts.conf works the same, yes
06:21
<austrian>
Thank you for responding. I'm going to experiment and report back.
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06:23
<austrian>
alkisg: Sorry, one last question: What is the advantage of using dnsmasq? I'm running fine without it with an external dhcp server.
06:25
<alkisg>
austrian: the advantage is that you don't have to change anything in your external dhcp server, e.g. it could be a non-configurable router,
06:25
but in your specific case, you can just omit one line in dnsmasq, the one about proxydhcp, and configure next-server in your external dhcp server, np
06:26
dnsmasq also provides dns and tftp
06:26
So if e.g. you want to block facebook in all your ltsp clients, you have a central point to do it,
06:26
and it also speeds up things
06:27
<austrian>
Any documentation on installing it on mint. Web searches seem to come up with much.
06:28
<alkisg>
austrian: which mint version? 17?
06:28
<austrian>
Yes please!
06:28
<alkisg>
Just follow the ltsp-pnp wiki page, but ignore the steps about adding the greek schools ppa, you don't need it
06:28
<austrian>
Thanks again.
06:28
<alkisg>
austrian: I'll be around for a few hours,
06:29
if you want, install a clean linuxmint 17 VM and ping me then
06:29
Once you have a desktop installation, it only takes a few minutes to transform it to an ltsp-pnp server :)
06:29
<austrian>
Installing now.
06:33
You've got me excited. I'm new to linux and have had to put together a large network all with linux. VERY happy with the results and also how helpful the community is.
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06:51
<alkisg>
austrian: linuxmint requires the "install-recommends" parameter
06:52
I've only done it once yesterday, so, to be quicker + safer, let's do this via vnc, ok?
06:52
!vnc
06:52
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'vnc', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x11vnc', 'kvm-vnc', 'vnc-plinet', 'vnc-alkisg'
06:52
<alkisg>
!x11vnc
06:52
<ltsp`>
x11vnc: One way to share a graphical screen with a remote person is: [local pc] port forward 5500, run: vncviewer -listen [remote pc] sudo apt-get install x11vnc; x11vnc -noshm -connect <technician-ip>
06:52
<austrian>
Sorry. Don't know what install-recommends is.
06:52
<alkisg>
Hmm
06:52
OK, do this:
06:52
sudo apt-get install x11vnc
06:52
x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
06:52
This will share your VM screen with me
06:54
<austrian>
Happy to give it a try. I'm on satellite, so with the routing that satellite companies do, we may not be able to connect.
06:55
<alkisg>
It's outgoing connection, usually it works even behind firewalls...
06:58
<austrian>
reverse_connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr failed
06:59
<alkisg>
austrian: is this under X?
07:00
I.e. from a graphical terminal, not the real console?
07:00
<austrian>
From graphical.
07:00
<alkisg>
OK, no remote, let's see if we can make it work via irc,
07:03
...i edited the ltsp-pnp wiki page to update for mint,
07:03
So, now, run these:
07:03
sudo -i
07:03
apt-get update
07:03
apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
07:03
ltsp-config dnsmasq
07:04
/usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
07:04
ltsp-update-image --cleanup /
07:04
After those, try to boot a client
07:04
<austrian>
Now, with ltsp-server-standalone, doesn't that install a dhcp service on the machine?
07:04
<alkisg>
No, it uses dnsmasq
07:05
That's an alternative dependency, isc-dhcp OR dnsmasq
07:05
You can see the list of programs being installed when you run that apt-get install command, you won't see isc-dhcp there
07:06
Meh wait a bit
07:06
<austrian>
Wow, simple install-recommends. Very cool.
07:06
<alkisg>
Ah ok I'm on 12.04, yup ok false alarm, no need to wait, go on
07:06
That's a problem with linuxmint, it uses --no-install-recommends by default, which is bad
07:07
Users should report the problem to clem, to make --install-recommends the default
07:07
As it is with all other debian/ubuntu variants
07:08
<austrian>
Wasn't able to locate ltsp-config
07:09
But it is installed.
07:10
<alkisg>
austrian: ? what are the error messages?
07:11
ltsp-config is at /usr/sbin/ltsp-config, installed by ltsp-server
07:11
<austrian>
We are building the image.
07:11
<alkisg>
dpkg -S /usr/sbin/ltsp-config
07:11
ltsp-server: /usr/sbin/ltsp-config
07:11
OK
07:16
<austrian>
Image built.
07:16
<alkisg>
Try to boot clients
07:17
austrian: what arch are you using? i386?
07:18
(the mint cd, was it 32 or 64 bit?)
07:18
<austrian>
What information do I need to place in the DHCP server? Root path and boot filename?
07:18
64bit
07:19
<alkisg>
root path and boot filename, yes
07:19
austrian: are all your clients 64 bit?
07:19
<austrian>
All 64 bit.
07:19
<alkisg>
Cool
07:20
path=/opt/ltsp/amd64 and filename=/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0
07:21
<austrian>
Client: Count not find kernel image: vmlinuz
07:21
<alkisg>
!pastebin
07:21
<ltsp`>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
07:21
<alkisg>
put results there
07:21
ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot /etc/nbd-server
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07:21
<austrian>
In the /opt/ltsp/ folder the only directory listed is images.
07:21
<alkisg>
That's fine
07:21
And it should have amd64.img there
07:22
You can put small results here, e.g. up to 5 lines
07:22
another feedback needed: grep i386 /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
07:22
<austrian>
cannot access /etc/ndb-server: No such file or directory
07:23
<alkisg>
nbd
07:23
not ndb
07:25
austrian: do note down any problems you encounter, so that I update the ltsp-pnp wiki page for others
07:25
<austrian>
grep i386 /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf is empty.
07:25
<alkisg>
Cool
07:26
<austrian>
Have dhcp-range=192.168.1.0,proxy
07:27
And dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/amd64 but there is no /opt/ltsp/amd64 folder.
07:29
<alkisg>
It's the nbd name, not a folder
07:30
$ cat /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_amd64.conf
07:30
[/opt/ltsp/amd64]
07:30
exportname = /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
07:30
It's the name of the section there []
07:30
I'm waiting for the pastebin link with the results of the ls command
07:30
(09:21:33 πμ) alkisg: ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot /etc/nbd-server
07:33
<austrian>
DNS isn't working on the mint box.
07:34
<alkisg>
On the mint server?
07:35
Temporarily, manually edit /etc/resolv.conf and add "nameserver 8.8.8.8" there
07:36
Then put the results of the commands in pastebin
07:36
You may need to follow the section about DNS from the ltsp-pnp wiki page
07:39
<austrian>
paste.ubuntu.com/9760193/
07:39
<alkisg>
You're missing the kernels in tftp
07:40
That means that `ltsp-update-image -c /` didn't finish correctly
07:40
Did you see any error messages when you ran it?
07:40
<austrian>
I didn't.
07:40
<alkisg>
Are you here in irc from the mint box, so that you copy/paste easily?
07:41
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ltsp&prompt=1
07:41
<austrian>
No, the mint server is remote.
07:41
<alkisg>
You can visit that ^ page from the mint box to be able to copy/paste easily
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07:41
<alkisg>
Cool
07:42
run: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
07:42
What's the output? Did the kernels now go to tftp?
07:43
<austrian>
updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: amd64
07:44
<alkisg>
And again, ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot
07:44
You should see a vmlinuz there if successful
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07:45
<austrian>
Nope.
07:45
<alkisg>
austrian: do you have /boot in a different partition?
07:46
(it's not the default...)
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07:46
<alkisg>
What is the size of /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img ?
07:46
<austrian>
1.3 Gb
07:47
<alkisg>
It looks ok, you can loop-mount it somewhere and see if it contains the kernel:
07:47
sudo -i
07:47
mkdir /tmp/squashfs
07:47
mount -o loop,ro /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img /tmp/squashfs
07:48
ls /tmp/squashfs/boot
07:48
umount /tmp/squashfs
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07:53
<austrian>
mount point /tmp/squashfs does not exist. Need to create it?
07:53
<alkisg>
See the mkdir command above
07:54
<austrian>
mounted
07:54
contents look nice.
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07:57
<austrian>
It does contain the kernel.
08:01
I did not, however, use this from the wiki : echo 'IPAPPEND=3' >> /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
08:04
<alkisg>
You don't need it since you have an external dhcp
08:12
austrian: it sounds like ltsp-update-kernels is having problems with your setup, but sorry no time to help you debug it via irc
08:12
you could try to manually copy the kernel in tftp
08:13
Watch for any error messages while running ltsp-update-kernels etc, or run it via sh -x and post the results to pastebin
08:13
<austrian>
I can do that. I'm going to give it some time and catch you later. Thank you very much for your time. I learned alot already.
08:13
<alkisg>
sudo sh -x /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
08:15
<austrian>
paste.ubuntu.com/9760305/
08:17
<alkisg>
austrian: try this in /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: LIST_KERNELS_64="*"
08:17
The line exists, you just need to add a star
08:17
Then run ltsp-update-kernels again and check tftp to see if vmlinuz got there
08:18
<austrian>
Nope.
08:19
Found the issue.
08:20
link for vmlinuz is in the root but not found in /boot/
08:20
<alkisg>
it isn't needed there though
08:20
Wait, are you saying that the squashfs /boot/ dir doesn't contain a kernel?
08:21
<austrian>
That is correct.
08:21
<alkisg>
In your mint server, do you have /boot in a different partition?
08:21
<austrian>
I saw the link and "ass"umed that it was in /boot.
08:21
<alkisg>
(in the mint vm)
08:21
What's /etc/fstab like in your mint server?
08:22
<austrian>
boot is on /dev/vda1
08:22
<alkisg>
(09:45:49 πμ) alkisg: austrian: do you have /boot in a different partition?
08:22
<austrian>
vlm
08:23
<alkisg>
That was 40 minutes ago :)
08:23
If you had answered that, we wouldn't spend 40 times debugging it :)
08:23
Copy /boot to your root partition...
08:24
`ltsp-update-image -c /` doesn't handle nested mounts well
08:24
<austrian>
My mistake.
08:24
<alkisg>
Then run `ltsp-update-image -c /` as well
08:24
<austrian>
So no lvm for the volume?
08:25
<alkisg>
For now, do these:
08:25
sudo -i
08:25
mkdir /tmp/sda1
08:25
mount --bind / /tmp/sda1
08:25
ls /tmp/sda1/boot
08:25
(it should be empty)
08:25
cp -r /boot /mnt/sda1/boot
08:25
umount /mnt/sda1
08:25
ltsp-update-image -c /
08:26
Then file a bug report for ltsp to handle nested mounts better...
08:26
Can't you put /boot in an lvm volume?
08:27
"The ability to read files from an LVM was added with GRUB2, which means that all recent versions of Ubuntu (Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala and later) have it. "
08:27
No need for separate /boot...
08:28
<austrian>
Dang. Very sorry for that.
08:29
If it makes you feel any better you taught me a tremendous amount. I can now pass it on.
08:32
<alkisg>
Nah, it doesn't help, I've done that 1000 times in the last years and too few people actually contributed here later on :)
08:34
<austrian>
I've been using linux for 5 months now. Finished a lts.conf gui configuration tool and working on a ldap tool for ltsp. So trying to give back.
08:36
Found the kernel and booted. Life is getting better.
08:36
<alkisg>
:)
08:37
<austrian>
That is just a thing of beauty. Just out of curiosity, how long have you worked with ltsp?
08:39
<alkisg>
since 2008
08:39
If you want to contribute gui editors etc, it would be nice to get in touch with ltsp devs *first*
08:39
:)
08:40
<austrian>
Probably a good idea. Just wanted to see if I could do it. Coming from a windows development background.
08:41
<alkisg>
me too, I was for 17 years a windows dev before switching to linux in 2008
08:42
<austrian>
Bad part is, I can't turn back now. Love it. LTSP has so many business possibilities. Quite frankly, I can't believe it has not exploded in popularity.
08:43
<alkisg>
Since 2008 I got it in 1000+ schools in greece... :) http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
08:44
Linux does need a sysadmin at some level though so it's difficult for companies that don't have support available
08:44
<austrian>
That is true. So it is possible to make this into a business venture. That is encouraging.
08:45
<alkisg>
If you're planning to use ltsp for a long time, and contribute to it, then do hang around here, me and vagrantc and possible others will be willing to help future contributors... although we're a bit tired by "potential" contributors that do their job and then disappear :)
08:45
<austrian>
Completely understand.
08:47
One of the things I am working on now, and have chatted with vagrantc about it, is a theme randomizer.
08:47
<alkisg>
theme for ldm?
08:47
<austrian>
Yes.
08:48
Each boot and re-loading of the ldm it has a random theme.
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08:50
<austrian>
We were also looking at some ram drive configurations where the image could be cached on the client.
08:54
<alkisg>
ldm is going away, don't give it too much development time
08:54
I think we do have an initramfs parameter that caches the nbd image in ram
08:57
<austrian>
Guess I'm already behind. I'll be around. Helping where I can. Bash scripts are a little foreign to me as of right now.
08:57
<alkisg>
python + gtk or qt would be fine too :)
08:59
<austrian>
Qt is amazing. Let's do that.
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13:58
<championofcyrod1>
zentyal has a gui for ltsp
13:58
https://wiki.zentyal.org/wiki/En/3.0/Thin_client_service_%28LTSP%29
13:59
austrian ^
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