IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 October 2011   (all times are UTC)

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00:25
<Levende>
getting a TFTP open timeout on PXE boot.... it was able to get in IP from my dhcp server though
00:36
<vagrantc>
andygraybeals: LDM_SERVER=192.168.0.5
00:37
andygraybeals: you could use hostname if your thin clients can resolve the server's name.
00:37
gotta run... good luck all
00:38
<Levende>
no! come back! lol
00:38
ttyl!
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00:52
<Levende>
does openbsd-inetd provide tftp access? I'm getting tftp open timeout
00:53
I'm an idiot. ignore that
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01:18
<Levende>
do I need to add an ip-range in /etc/hosts.allow?
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01:38
<Levende>
got my laptop to boot LTS over the network.. now I need to figure out a way to kiosk a certain user, so that when he/she logs in, all they have avalible to them is web and openoffice
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02:28
<Matrix3000>
I am having issues with Google Chrome working with my fat clients
02:28
i keep on having an issue with SingleLockOn file needed deleting
02:29
I found a part in the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients page wehre it talks about SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=False, but then below it talks about NFS_HOME, so would i use both or just one?
02:30
and my NFS server is on a completely different server
02:30
that holds the home directories
02:43
<Levende>
for fat clients....do you need a pre-existing linux-based OS installed on the computer, or everything still stored on the server, but simply processed locally on the clients?
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05:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so presuming things work out, i'm going to try and make it to maine...
05:30
<alkisg>
Yey!!!
05:30
This will be the best BTS ever! :D
05:30
<vagrantc>
we'll see
05:31* alkisg loves waking up and hearing good news :)
05:31
<vagrantc>
main thinng i'd need, i think, is a ride from portland or boston to the venue
05:32* vagrantc doesn't even want to think about food complexities
05:33
<alkisg>
...3000ml? wow...
05:34
<vagrantc>
the closer portland
05:34
:)
05:34
<alkisg>
I think Gadi and me could pick you up from (that closer :)) portland
05:34
<vagrantc>
more like 4,000 from the farther portland
05:35
<alkisg>
We'll be driving from NY to Maine on Thursday
05:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, you're going with gadi!
05:35
i could even fly into new york...
05:35
<alkisg>
Yup, he said he'll bring his minivan
05:36
<vagrantc>
well, i'll send an email to ltsp-developer and let's see from there...
05:36
would be good to figure out sooner than later
05:37* alkisg will be in NY for a whole week before BTS :)
05:42
<vagrantc>
wow. it's really only friday and saturday, huh
05:45
<alkisg>
Yeah, Sunday morning some of us fly for the ubuntu uds...
05:52
<vagrantc>
well, i've started the balls rolling...
05:52
let's see where things land
05:58
<knipwim>
vagrantc: have you by any chance looked at my proposol for letting ltsp-info work with plugins?
05:59
we talked about that some time ago in relation to ltsp-update-image
06:00
and went ahead and made ltsp-info work with the plugin system
06:00
it's at lp:~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-info-dev starting at rev 1931
06:11
<alkisg>
The problem with plugins is that parameter text is duplicated to all distros, e.g.:  add_option "server-packages" "`eval_gettext "List installed LTSP server packages"`" "regular" "false"
06:11
And since it's plugin based, it's not there in the man page
06:11
Wouldn't it be better to have overridable functions instead?
06:11
E.g. "ltsp-info/common-functions" defines function Server_packages():
06:11
echo "Your distro doesn't support this function, contact its maintainer, aborting" >&2
06:12
Then, ltsp-info/debian-functions would declare a function with the same name, to override it:
06:12
COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' | awk '/ltsp|ldm/{print $1,$2,$3}' etc etc
06:12
And the main system would first source common-functions, and then $DISTRO-functions
06:13
That way the main code would be common, the help text would also be in the main file etc
06:13
Distro maintainers would only have to declare functions
06:15
<vagrantc>
knipwim: haven't looked at it, no... but it doesn't seem like a bad idea.
06:19
<knipwim>
alkisg: only the generic plugins would be listed on all distros
06:19
only the generic options would appear in the man page i guess
06:19
<alkisg>
knipwim: yes, I think it's a bad thing that distros would have to duplicate all the add_option code
06:19
<knipwim>
like ltsp-build-client
06:19
<alkisg>
They could just override functions instead, resulting in much cleaner plugins
06:20
Yes, I think ltsp-build-client needs a better plugin system too :)
06:20
<knipwim>
ahhh :)
06:20
i was just going to ask that
06:20
<alkisg>
Too much diversion between distros, too much code duplication etc
06:20
While with function overrides, the main code could be common
06:21
Maybe we could test that method in ltsp-info, and if it indeed works better, we can slowly migrate ltsp-build-client to that...
06:24
<vagrantc>
the simplicity gained looses a lot of flexibility
06:24
<alkisg>
Like what?
06:24
<vagrantc>
you have to know what functions you're even going to call
06:25
<alkisg>
Suppose you have a very generic ltsp_info() main function
06:25
<vagrantc>
whereas, with plugins, you can insert plugin in nearly any spot needed
06:25
<alkisg>
That calls Server_packages(), Client_packages() etc
06:25
Now suppose a distro wants to call Unknown_function() inbetween them
06:25
<vagrantc>
for ltsp-info, functions might be better... but for ltsp-build-client i'm not sure it's flexible enough
06:25
<alkisg>
And all the other distros don't want to have an empty function with that name in common_functions
06:26
Even in that case, that distro maintainer can override ltsp_info from his distro folder
06:27
(which is something he shouldn't do; he should convince other distros to have that Unknown_function template in common functions)
06:27
(so that the main code remains common)
06:27
<vagrantc>
this makes me think of debhelper overrides
06:28
<alkisg>
Right, the concept is similar
06:28
<vagrantc>
by default, do foo bar baz, and allow people to override bar
06:29
<alkisg>
And if bar is absolutely required, show an error that this distro code needs to be maintained
06:29
And it requires less sourcing (once is enough, no need for separate sourcing for each step)
06:29
$MODE
06:30
<knipwim>
alkisg: i'm wondering if that would work with ltsp-build-client
06:31
each distro has very different install phases
06:33
<alkisg>
It's not hard to maintain a list of functions to be called
06:35
<knipwim>
alkisg: hmm, not entirely convinced yet
06:35
will think about it later today
06:35
my job calls :)
06:35
<alkisg>
E.g. one quick method: 30-fat_clients with functions "fat_clients_configure()" and "fat_clients_finalization()" in it
06:35
But I'm sure there are better methods than that
06:36
<knipwim>
excepts Gentoo has no fat client configure step at all
06:36
<alkisg>
Right, so you just wouldn't have that file
06:36
And those functions wouldn't be added to the list of functions to be called
06:37
(09:35:42 πμ) alkisg: But I'm sure there are better methods than that
06:37
:)
06:38
I'll give it a better thought too
06:45* vagrantc sighs
06:46
<vagrantc>
i gotta somehow convince people to come to my side of the continent again :)
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07:08* vagrantc wonders if gadi will be around tomorrow...
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07:33
<alkisg>
Matrix3000: you can set NFS_HOME=server-ip:/home
07:33
And no, SSH_FOLLOWSYMLINKS doesn't apply if you use NFS
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08:01
<Hyperbyte>
Morning!
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09:09
<mmetzger>
Morning
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12:58
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
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13:08
<exhuma>
hi all
13:09
I am currently trying to set up ltsp to make use of a bunch of old PCs.
13:10
However, I am stuck. I followed a guide on help.ubuntu.com, setting up dnsmasq as proxy DHCP. So far so good...
13:11
I get the login screen on the thin client. But as soon as I try to login, I get a message "Response from server, restarting"
13:12
<vlt>
exhuma: Does /home/<user> exist?
13:12
<exhuma>
... which returns me to the login screen. Is there any log-file or something where I can trace the error?
13:12
vlt: Let me check...
13:12
vlt: Yes. Exisits
13:12
exists*
13:12
<vlt>
exhuma: Can the user login via ssh?
13:12
<exhuma>
yep
13:13
currently connected via ssh even ;)
13:13
<vlt>
exhuma: Does "ssh server" work from the client w/o fingerprint request?
13:13
<exhuma>
vlt: checking...
13:14
vlt: I don't have a console on the client... Not sure how I can check that...
13:15
<vlt>
exhuma: Can't you switch to ctrl+alt+F1 console?
13:16
<exhuma>
vlt: ah... F1 worked... I instinctively tried with F2 ^_^
13:16
vlt: so yes... I now have a console but don't know the root passwd...
13:16
vlt: I assume it's defined inside the generated image?
13:17
<vlt>
exhuma: I don't know of a better way than chrooting to the client images's source dir and run passwd
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
exhuma,
13:18
!screen_02
13:18
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: screen_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
That's the proper way to get a root shell on a thin client.
13:18
<vlt>
Hyperbyte: Thank you ;-)
13:18
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: thanks... will try that...
13:19
<Hyperbyte>
exhuma, from the root prompt (accessible with ctrl+alt+f2) you should type
13:19
<exhuma>
hmm.... internet being slow.... :/
13:19
<Hyperbyte>
ssh <user>@server
13:19
Only replace <user> with the username, leave everything as is. For example ssh exhuma@server
13:19
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: yep... no probs.
13:20
<Hyperbyte>
No warnings about keys?
13:20
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: not there yet...
13:20
<Hyperbyte>
Oh
13:20
<vlt>
exhuma: Is /home/<user> writable for <user>?
13:20
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: don't have a root prompt yet...
13:20
<Hyperbyte>
I thought you meant no problems ssh'ing.
13:21
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: on tty1 I have a login prompt
13:21
<Hyperbyte>
Once you do ssh <user>@server from the root prompt, you should get an error message or warning of some kind.
13:21
If it complains about keys
13:21
<exhuma>
on tty2 I have a blank screen
13:21
<Hyperbyte>
!ltsp-update-keys
13:21
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: I do not know about 'ltsp-update-keys', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltsp-update-sshkeys'
13:21
<Hyperbyte>
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
13:21
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
13:21
<Hyperbyte>
Do that if it complains about keys.
13:21
If it fails for some other reason, see /var/log/auth.log on the server.
13:22
exhuma, do the !screen_02 bit and reboot the client. You'll have an already-logged-in root prompt on tty2.
13:22
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: The web-page you linked times out on my end...
13:23
Hyperbyte: bad connection :/
13:23
<Hyperbyte>
r
13:23
exhuma, your problem. Website works.
13:23
But instructions are short
13:23
Edit your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf file
13:23
And insert
13:23
SCREEN_02=screen
13:24
SCREEN_07=ldm
13:24
Under the [Default] section
13:26
<exhuma>
Okay... rebooting...
13:26
Might take a while... My current testing setup is quite slow... :)
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13:28
<exhuma>
while it's running.... Thank you guys for the quick responses :) You are awesome!
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13:29
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: humm.. it didn't take the changes in lts.conf into account...
13:29
should I regen the image?
13:30
<Hyperbyte>
No, that's not needed for lts.conf changes
13:30
!pastebin
13:30
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
13:30
<Hyperbyte>
Show me your lts.conf.
13:31
<exhuma>
It currently only contains the lines you just posted...
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
^^
13:31
I want to check.
13:31
<exhuma>
omw...
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
I bet your forgot the [Default] section.
13:31
-r
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13:32
<exhuma>
http://pastebin.com/ehPqmGit
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
Hah, no
13:32
<exhuma>
:)
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
Okay. That'll work.
13:32
<exhuma>
Even double-checked case-sensitivity ;)
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
And rebooting the client yields nothing on screen 02?
13:32
<exhuma>
nope
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
Does it start LDM still?
13:32
<exhuma>
location correct in "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf" ?
13:32
yep... LDM is up
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
Assuming you have i386 clients?
13:33
<exhuma>
yep
13:33
all i386
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
Which Ubuntu version?
13:33
<exhuma>
/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf is not correct... right?
13:33
11.04
13:34
<Hyperbyte>
No, that's not correct.
13:34
Sorry
13:34
I'm an idiot
13:34
SCREEN_02=shell
13:34
<exhuma>
:)
13:34
<Hyperbyte>
Not screen, wtf...
13:34
<exhuma>
btw... the client troubleshooting page has just come back for me.
13:34
:)
13:35
rebooting...
13:36
... having the test server as a VM on an USB-Hdd is not really helping the overall boot-speed... -_-
13:36
... given that the VM Host is also kind of lame ;)
13:37
<Hyperbyte>
Heh
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13:39
<exhuma>
okay... It's the ssh keys I am guessing
13:39
I managed to log-in via ssh.
13:39
<Hyperbyte>
You get a warning, if you're sure you want to connect?
13:39
<exhuma>
but it gave me a "warning permanently adding..."
13:39
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah
13:39
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
13:39
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
13:40
<exhuma>
sec... phone
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13:43
<exhuma>
okay... I just regenerated the ssh keys and rebooting again. That seems to be the problem :)
13:43
While I am at it: another quick question...
13:43
What's the easiest way to modify the client environment? Adding removing applications? Changing default WM and so on...?
13:44
simply chrooting into the environment? And apt-get foo?
13:44
<alkisg>
!ltsp-chroot
13:44
<ltsp>
alkisg: ltsp-chroot: you can download ltsp-chroot from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/server/scripts/debian/ltsp-chroot
13:45
<exhuma>
:)
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13:50
<exhuma>
hmm.... ltsp-update-sshkeys did not seem to work...
13:51
I'm working on it... now that I know what to look for...
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14:04
<exhuma>
Okay. It's all working now. Thanks again for all the effort!
14:07
<Hyperbyte>
You're welcome. =)
14:07
exhuma, about ltsp-chroot
14:07
Since you're running 11.04, you don't need to download it. You already have it.
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14:13
<Hyperbyte>
Hrm
14:13
ltsp.org nameservers are down.
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14:20
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: yeah... saw that already :)
14:22
Hyperbyte: I am currently fooling around with the image...
14:23
Hyperbyte: I assume, that the image that is generated via ltsp-update-image is *not* completely transferred to the client? As that would defeat the *thin client* idea? Or have I misunderstood something?
14:23
Hyperbyte: My understanding is that the server will do the heavy-lifting and the thin client is only actually drawing the UI on the screen...
14:24
Hyperbyte: I have to be careful about RAM usage on the clients...
14:26
<Hyperbyte>
The image in /opt/ltsp/images/ is made available to the client.
14:27
It's not transferred unless needed, naturally, because most clients have no way to store it.
14:27
<exhuma>
Hyperbyte: Okay. As I thought... just wanted to be sure :)
14:27
<Hyperbyte>
If you want technical details, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_block_device
14:27
LTSP uses NBD to avail the image from server to client.
14:27
<exhuma>
cool
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14:37
<stgraber>
ogra_: added you to the LTSP wiki for this year's BTS
14:38
<ogra_>
thx
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14:46
<stgraber>
ogra_: just talked with mgariepy, for some reason I thought pscheie was arriving in Bangor earlier than he's. So we'll just be leaving later from Sherbrooke and wait for the two of you in Bangor.
14:47
<pscheie>
stgraber, I arrive in Bangor at 4:15, fyi
14:47
ogra_, you are coming to BTS?
14:47
<stgraber>
pscheie: yep. ogra_ arrives an hour later, so we'll just wait for him
14:47
<pscheie>
Cool!
14:48
<ogra_>
yep, i do :)
14:48
if i get my ESTA ready
14:48
<pscheie>
I can shake his hand and give him long-overdue thanks for a bunch of help he gave me a few years ago.
14:50
<stgraber>
ogra_: did yours expire already?
14:50
<pscheie>
stgraber, I think you broke www.ltsp.org
14:50
:-)
14:51
I can't get to it ATM
14:51
<ogra_>
stgraber, yep
14:51
<pscheie>
DNS can't seem to resolve
14:51
<stgraber>
pscheie: oh, that broke just a few minutes ago then. https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_ByTheSea2011#List_of_attendees will still work though
14:53
<pscheie>
ok, that works.
14:53
<stgraber>
ogra_: mine seems to have been automatically renewed last time I entered the US from Canada. Expiry is exactly one year after my trip to Austin (LXC sprint). It's quite surprising it renewed without having me pay for it ;)
14:54
<ogra_>
but you paid for it the first time i guess
14:54
i got mine for free, so they want my money now
14:54
<stgraber>
nope, never paid for it. My first one was free, then it apparently just got renewed
14:54
<ogra_>
bah
14:54
mine is definitely expired, i even got a mail reminder
14:55
ATTENTION! The travel authorization submitted on September 7, 2009 via ESTA will expire within the next 30 days. It is not possible to extend or renew a current ESTA. You will need to apply for a new ESTA. Please reapply at ...
14:56
thats what i got ... so no candy for me :(
14:57
<stgraber>
they want your money! :)
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15:22
<jammcq>
good morning friends
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15:27
<bakytn>
just upgraded to Oneiric Beta. When booting from ThinClient right after the message: "Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default"
15:27
I am getting FATAL: Error inserting vesafb no such device
15:27
and (initramfs) _ input
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15:34
<stgraber>
bakytn: how did you upgrade?
15:34
bakytn: we don't support anything but: full upgrade of the disto, remove /opt/ltsp, rebuild the chroot entirely with ltsp-build-client
15:34
note that a natty chroot won't work on oneiric
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15:45
<vagrantc>
hiya folks
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15:48
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc. So will you be coming with Gadi and me?
15:49
<vagrantc>
i'll try!
15:49
<alkisg>
Cool! :) :)
15:50
<Ghidorah>
Hello everyone. Does anyone how any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this terminal issue I'm having? Users using LibreOffice on the LTSP terminals will randomly be returned to the login screen for the terminal.
15:51
<alkisg>
Ghidorah: distro, version, and how much RAM on the clients?
15:51
<Ghidorah>
I'm running LTSP-Cluster with 3 applications servers all servers are Ubuntu 11.04
15:51
Centralized NFS homedir on the LTSP-Root
15:51
let me verify the RAM amount on these machiens.
15:52
machines*
15:52
<alkisg>
Ah, also check the graphics card
15:52
!localxterm
15:52
<ltsp>
alkisg: localxterm: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
15:52
<alkisg>
lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA on a localxterm
15:53
<Ghidorah>
256MB of RAM on these machines.
15:53
crap.
15:54
<alkisg>
Do you have NBD_SWAP enabled?
15:54
<Ghidorah>
It is disabled.
15:54* alkisg uses 512MB of nbd swap, it helps to reduce crashes :)
15:55
<alkisg>
That's probably it, so start with increasing swap and see if the problem persists
15:55
$ cat /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf
15:55
SIZE=512
15:55
And, NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf
15:55
<Ghidorah>
on the LTSP-Cluster root I assume?
15:55
<alkisg>
No idea about cluster, sorry
15:56
<Ghidorah>
Man I feel silly now
15:56
I didn't even think of the RAM
15:56
I quickly jumped to NFS file locking issues.
15:57
<alkisg>
Nah don't worry there are so many things that can go wrong that we always overlook something simple :)
15:59
<Ghidorah>
Just to make sure my understanding of the NBD_SWAP usage
15:59
It should be used when the thin clients are lacking RAM?
15:59
<alkisg>
Yes
15:59
Open office and firefox use a lot of the so called "x pixmaps"
15:59
Local cache of x bitmaps
15:59
<Ghidorah>
On the server where does that NBD_SWAP file get stored?
16:00
<alkisg>
So even if firefox or openoffice are actually running on the server, those use Ram local to the x server, i.e. the client
16:00
I've seen openoffice using as much as 500 mb of x ram
16:00
In /tmp/
16:00
nbdswapd creates a temporary sparse file for each client
16:00
So, if the client doesn't need the extra ram, no disk space is consumed
16:01
But if it needs ram, it can store up to 512 mb in /tmp
16:01
And those are deleted when the client is powered off
16:01
<Ghidorah>
per client
16:01
<alkisg>
Yes
16:01
But usually it's not needed
16:01
E.g. if you see 1 out of 20 clients crashing, only that client would need the swap
16:01
And of course usually not all of it, just a few MB
16:02
<Ghidorah>
Yeah I'm seeing ummm 5 - 15 a day
16:02
<alkisg>
:)
16:02
Ah, a hint:
16:02
<Ghidorah>
:(
16:02
<alkisg>
disable compcache
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16:02
<Ghidorah>
compcache?
16:02
<alkisg>
It eats up 25% of your RAM
16:02
Put "nocompcache" in pxelinux.cfg/default
16:04
<Ghidorah>
Does it matter where I put it in that file?
16:04
<alkisg>
Yes, right next to "quiet splash"
16:04
quiet splash nocompcache
16:05
Again, no idea about -cluster, if it uses multiple tftp dirs etc
16:05
<Ghidorah>
append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2000 is what I have in that file
16:05
<alkisg>
append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nocompcache nbdport=2000
16:05
<Ghidorah>
just insert it before the nbdport
16:05
<alkisg>
Yup
16:06
Anywhere in that line would do
16:06
<Ghidorah>
Awesome.
16:06
<alkisg>
But do enable NBD_SWAP as well
16:06
When you're done, run `free` in a localxterm to verify that you made it
16:06
<Ghidorah>
in LTS.CONF (LTSP-Cluster doesn't use it) is it required to specify the NBD server?
16:07
<alkisg>
The ltsp server is assumed to be the nbd server
16:07
There's NBD_SWAP_SERVER in lts.conf if you need it
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16:18
<Ghidorah>
Thank you for your help alkisg. It is greatly appreciated
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16:20
<alkisg>
You're welcome
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16:42
<mgariepy>
Ghidorah, do they crash when printing ?
16:42
<Ghidorah>
It was not reported that way
16:42
<mgariepy>
ok
16:42
<Ghidorah>
the teacher reports that the students are just working with LibreOffice and then reset
16:43
You were actually the person I was hoping to catch
16:43
since you run LTSP-Cluster with like a million clients right?
16:45
<mgariepy>
not a million ;)
16:47
<Ghidorah>
:)
16:47
Do you log terminal crashes somehow?
16:48
How do you handle say a run away process
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16:49
<Ghidorah>
sometimes when a terminal crashes while running libreoffice the libreoffice process stays open
16:50
and takes up 90+% of CPU
16:54
<mgariepy>
ltsp-cluster-accountmanager kill user process that aren't connected anymore
16:55
<Ghidorah>
hrmm it does most of the time
16:56
but I don't think ltsp-cluster-accountmanager is being called
16:56
because the terminal crashed
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17:08
<jason_>
how is centos with ltsp?
17:08
anybody ever use it?
17:09
<mgariepy>
Ghidorah: is ck-list-sessions list the user ?
17:10
<Ghidorah>
Good question... I didn't know about ck-list-sessions
17:10
I will have to check that once this comes up again.
17:11
<mgariepy>
and does the thin client crash, or ldm restart?
17:11
<vagrantc>
jason_: it's not officially supported ... it's probably possible to hack something together
17:11
<mgariepy>
do you have compiz activated ?
17:11
<Ghidorah>
Any other nifty or help comands that could help a noob LTSP-Cluster admin
17:11
ldm restarted
17:11
<vagrantc>
jason_: mainly needs someone from the centos community to do the work
17:11
<Ghidorah>
I have compiz off
17:12
<mgariepy>
if you do dmesg on the thin client you see it ran out of ram ?
17:13
<Ghidorah>
lol *shrug* I was not told when these crash occured
17:13
crashes*
17:13
so I was kinda taking shots in the dark
17:14
<mgariepy>
you have ssh running on the thin clients ?
17:14
<Ghidorah>
Yes.
17:14
<mgariepy>
in ltsp-cluster-control you have logs when ldm restarts
17:16
you have event : Login screen
17:16
<Ghidorah>
how would I determine when the login screen
17:16
event is from someone logging off
17:16
vs a crash?
17:17
<mgariepy>
if you have a log for a user login, and a login screen without a boot or a user logout i guess it's should be a crash
17:18
<Ghidorah>
hrmm good point
17:18
I will look into this more after some lunch. Mgariepy, thank you for your help and ideas!
17:19
<mgariepy>
good luck
17:20
nocompcache should help too tho. i don't have a big 11.04 production site yet.
17:21
<jason_>
vagrantc: I see. I was just curious if centos would offer me better ppc support than ubuntu is currently.
17:22
vagrantc: someone told me they run RHEL on PPC servers beautifully, so it made me wonder if CentOS could fill that void for us here.
17:22
<alkisg>
Ghidorah: putting nocompcache without enabling NBD_SWAP will actually make things worse, so do those 2 simultaneously
17:30
<jason_>
alkisg: I was reviewing the logs from yesterday. when you said to use --copy-sources, was that in conjunction with the ltsp-build-client command?
17:30
(if you happen to recall)
17:34
<vagrantc>
jason_: i'm biased, but debian's support for powerpc is pretty good
17:39
<jason_>
debian wouldnt even install yesterday, but I also grabbed the testing variant on accident
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17:40
<jason_>
however someone was in debian-ppc earlier speaking of the same issues with debian 6 stable that I had, so I'm not feeling that optimistic about it
17:41
<alkisg>
jason_: what I suggested yesterday was to see the debootstrap command line that ubuntu uses, because it fails
17:41
While running it with no special command line, it works
17:42
So it sounds like a bug in the LTSP code, and with the ps loop I mentioned you'd help in troubleshooting it
17:42
As Hyperbyte said, stick to a distro and troubleshoot the problems, don't change distros on the first error
17:42
<jason_>
And I'd like to help troubleshoot it, but "loop ps" isn't something that I know what you mean offhand.
17:42
<alkisg>
You make it harder for us to help you this way
17:43
Well, finding out how to run ps in a loop should be easier than reinstalling though
17:43
I didn't have time to give you the exact command line at that time, but I'm sure others could help you, even in #distro channels
17:43
<jason_>
alkisg: unfortunatley I've exhausted distro channels quite extensively.
17:43
<alkisg>
Do you still have that installation? Or you formatted?
17:44
<jason_>
I have the ubuntu install on the PPC, but I'm not going to that building for a few minutes et.
17:44
yet
17:44
the building must have lost power because I cannot SSH to it either
17:44
lost power last night, that is
17:45
I just wasnt sure what you menat by --mirror or --copy-sources. I had assumed they were just to be added to a command but I wasnt sure if it was ltsp-build-client or what
17:46
<alkisg>
jason_: here's the loop: while true; do ps --no-headers -C debootstrap; sleep 1; done
17:46
Do that while running ltsp-build-client normally
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17:59
<andygraybeal>
yay for ltsp :)
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18:12
<jason_>
alkisg: sounds good. I'll give that a shot when I get there in a bit. Likewise should I be doing anything to the --copy-sources suggestion earlier? I can only assume both sources.list have to match?
18:13
<alkisg>
jason_: no, it doesn't reach the point where sources would be useful
18:13
<jason_>
alkisg: I see. I had just thought considering the nature of the error it was regarding the sources.list with finding the appropriate mirrors.
18:17
<vagrantc>
you still have to manually specify a mirror, as copy-sourceslist doesn't know what to tell debootstrap
18:17
<jason_>
vagrantc: a ppc mirror to be specific, right?
18:18
<vagrantc>
jason_: yes
18:18
no sense specifying any other mirror :)
18:18
<jason_>
vagrantc: well yeah, just wanted to make sure I understood.
18:18
this is all I dug up with ppc mirrors - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads
18:18
I can't imagine that's it?
18:21
<alkisg>
You already have ppc mirrors in your /etc/sources.list, you can look them there
18:22
<jason_>
all right. I hope and would assume they'd be marked in the ppc box, as my intel box here has no indication of ppc/powerpc in the sources.list.
18:23
<alkisg>
Just ignore the mirrors thing for a bit. It should work without you having to specify any mirrors at all, since it's the same arch.
18:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ltsp has the mirror hard-coded
18:28
alkisg: ltsp-build-client
18:28
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah, then that's probably what goes wrong
18:29
It looks like it doesn't add .gz at the end, when searching for Packages.gz
18:29
I don't know how that could happen
18:29
The rest of the url, as jason_ reported, was there
18:30
http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/binary-powerpc/Packages
18:30
(missing; while with .gz, it's there)
18:31
<vagrantc>
it probably retries downloading after the first one fails
18:31
i.e. it usually defaults to Packages.gz, and then falls back to Packages
18:33
<jason_>
couldn't I just do --mirror with the URL it would otherwise use by default, yet tag .gz on the end?
18:34
<vagrantc>
no
18:34
it expects only the first part of the URL from sources.list ...
18:35
i.e. deb http://foo.bar/ubuntu DIST main universe ... you'd use "--mirror http://foo.bar/ubuntu" presuming it's trying the right DIST
18:36
<jason_>
I see
18:36
<vagrantc>
you can force the DIST with --dist DIST
18:36
<jason_>
so if ltsp-build-client has the URL hard coded, and the URL is incorrect...
18:36
that's where I'm at - right?
18:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't see a hardcoded MIRROR though: debootstrap $DEBOOTSTRAPOPTS --arch $ARCH $DIST $ROOT $MIRROR
18:38
<vagrantc>
and that's why you need to override it with --mirror
18:38
<alkisg>
And from what I see, MIRROR only gets set if one specifies it
18:38
debootstrap does work without specifying a mirror, in jason_'s system
18:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok, not hard-coded per se, you can override with --mirror
18:38
alkisg: well, the ltsp code will break it, then, and you'll need to specify it
18:38
<alkisg>
So I'm guessing that there's some other part of the debootstrap command line that makes it fail
18:39
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the ltsp code will call it with mirror
18:40
the ltsp-build-client code will call it with it's default mirror, which my guess is doesn't support powerpc
18:40
<jason_>
would that be because ubuntu's powerpc support is community driven and not official?
18:40
<alkisg>
(09:40:20 μμ) vagrantc: the ltsp-build-client code will call it with it's default mirror ==> what part of ltsp puts a mirror parameter in the debootstrap command line? I don't see it..
18:41
From what I see, if $MIRROR is empty, no mirror is specified
18:41
And jason_ tried running debootstrap without specifying a mirror, and it worked
18:42
jason_: btw, all that chat above would be avoided if we had the debootstrap command line :)
18:42
<jason_>
meaning (don't hit me) what exactly??
18:43
<alkisg>
Running the ps loop while running ltsp-build-client and giving us the output
18:43
<jason_>
well
18:43
<alkisg>
So if you go there later on, try it
18:43
<jason_>
let me wrap things up and head over to where the ubuntu ppc box is
18:43
and maybe we can tackle it
18:44
now, I'm not a coder, b ut I can't help but to wonder...
18:44
with all of this talk going on, its an issue with me connecting to an outside source to grab the necessary files to complete the chroot creation process - correct?
18:45
<alkisg>
I believe that somehow LTSP passes some bad command line to debootstrap, and that should be fixed in the LTSP code. So after pinpointing the problem and fixing the LTSP code, ltsp-build-client should work without you having to do anything special.
18:46
But it's just a guess; we need more info to pinpoint the problem
18:47
<jason_>
alkisg: well, I do apologize that I'm not more up to speed with grabbing some of the suggestions you guys have put out. But I'm willing to help troubleshoot as I would like to be able to utilize this old hardware and save the district a few dollars, if you guys are okay with bearing with me a bit longer.
18:47
<alkisg>
Sure, ping when you're there to try out stuff
18:48
<jason_>
you got it. thanks!
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18:57
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it sets MIRROR in 000-basic-configuration
18:58
<alkisg>
vagrantc: right, I missed that :)
18:58
<vagrantc>
i was trying to tell you, but i'm mostly doing other things :)
18:58
<alkisg>
I grepped the sources but I missed that file
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19:11
<jason_>
ping alkisg
19:11
<alkisg>
jason_: vagrantc was right, the mirror is hardcoded so you need to specify it manually
19:11
Put your /etc/apt/sources.list to pastebin
19:12
<jason_>
oh nice
19:12
the chroot or the server?
19:12
<alkisg>
The ppc "server"
19:12
<jason_>
k
19:12
sec
19:13
http://pastebin.com/hbiHuRFu
19:13
is this an actual LTSP bug or is this just a side effect that you guys didn't expect?
19:13
<alkisg>
OK now try: sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror=http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/
19:14
Well the problem is that it's not an official mirror, I'm not sure if it would be proper to special-case that in the ubuntu plugins code
19:14
I.e. "if arch=powerpc, use that mirror by default instead of the official one"
19:15
<jason_>
its taking longer than it did last time
19:15
which is good
19:15
didnt receive any errors
19:15
(yet?)
19:15
<alkisg>
You'll still need to fix your dhcp etc
19:15
You could even do that now, while it still builds
19:15
<jason_>
I think I already fixed it
19:15
in accordance to whats on the crossarch page at least
19:16
<alkisg>
So if you try to netboot a client, do you get a tftp request?
19:16
(on the server)
19:16
<jason_>
I handed out a lease, remember? I couldn't see anything else.
19:16
when I tail'd the syslog I could see communication between server and client every now and then
19:16
<alkisg>
Pastebin your /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
19:16
<jason_>
I forget the exact terms used but it would refresh every so often as if it was re-establishing or trying to initiate connection
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19:17
<jason_>
http://pastebin.com/rYmEKE9X
19:18
alkisg: if I upgrade to a fresh install of 12.04 (way down the road) is it likely I'll need the --mirror gizmo again?
19:18
<alkisg>
TFTP_OPTIONS="--secure --verbose" and run: sudo service tftpd-hpa restart
19:18
<jason_>
what does verbose change?
19:18
<alkisg>
Yes, unless we special-case it in the ubuntu plugins code
19:18
It logs stuff to your syslog or daemon.log
19:19
So if you see that the client requested yaboot, then you're on a good road
19:19
<jason_>
so --verbose is for informational reasons, not for functionalty reasons?
19:19
I just want to make sure I document it properly
19:19
<alkisg>
For troubleshooting reasons
19:19
<jason_>
gotcha
19:19
<alkisg>
It's already documented in the man page ;)
19:19
But sure, go ahead
19:19
<jason_>
yeah but I always document my exact steps of projects I set up
19:19
and tweak them with what works what doenst
19:20
that way if that physical box BLOWS UP someone can walk in and follow my EXACT documentation to get it exactly where it was
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19:20
<jason_>
I try to make things as idiot proof as possible since time is everything when troubleshooting core components
19:21
alkisg: I'm on 10.04 - would "sudo service" be "sudo /etc/init.d" in my case?
19:21
<alkisg>
No
19:21
<jason_>
k
19:21
just wanted to make sure
19:21
I ran sudo service. it just came back with a process ID
19:21
that was it
19:22
now if I update my chroot, will I have to specify a mirror or is that part overwith once I build it?
19:22
<alkisg>
It's over, hopefully
19:22
Now try to netboot a client
19:22
Even though the chroot isn't yet ready
19:22
<jason_>
k
19:22
<alkisg>
And see if it tries to download yabot
19:23
<jason_>
er, will the chroot be okay once I tank the internet connection?
19:23
my test connection for dhcp doesnt have it on the main network
19:23
<alkisg>
Ah, leave it for later then
19:23
<jason_>
in that case, perfect time for a quick pit stop to the restroom
19:23
brb...
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19:27
<jason_>
alright... still rolling...
19:28
am I the first person to bug this much about PPC clients?
19:29
<alkisg>
I think so. :)
19:29
<jason_>
alkisg: :P
19:29
this could save us a lot of money... and frustration...
19:29
while we are 70% mac, we're moving towards linux. with that, LTSP is heavily integrated, along with native installs on laptops, various desktops, etc
19:30
but having THIS many old macs is just depressing to think they have zero purpose anymore
19:30
alright, some errors
19:30
<alkisg>
I know what you mean, we have dozens of ancient labs with 64 or 128 mb ram here
19:30
<jason_>
too much to type - Ill pastebin it...
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19:34
<alkisg>
sudo apt-get install pastebinit - it helps :)
19:39
<jason_>
http://pastebin.com/HFpYv3GD
19:44
<alkisg>
jason_: try this: sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror=http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --security-mirror=http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --updates-mirror=http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
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19:49
<Levende>
fat clients don't require harddrives, do they? trying to determine what's going to be best for a certain network
19:49
<alkisg>
Yes, they don't
19:49
<Levende>
everything is the same as thinclients, but processing is done locally, right? nothing is "saved" locally
19:49
<alkisg>
!fatclients
19:49
<ltsp>
alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
19:50
<Levende>
alrighty
19:50
<alkisg>
Indeed
19:54
<Levende>
that guide on LTSP fatclients should still be farly streight forward for integration with Debian, right?
19:56
<jason_>
sorry alkisg. had to do some on-the-spot training with someone who walked in the door. let me try that now.
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19:58
<vagrantc>
Levende: you might have to do some of the steps manually that are implemented in ubuntu's plugins... but it's not too difficult
19:59
i've been meaning to fix up Debian's fatclient support for a couple years now... never managed to finnaggle the time.
19:59
<jason_>
alright - re-running that command now alkisg .... may be a while though
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20:21
<Ghidorah>
mgariepy: Are you around?
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20:27
<mgariepy>
yeah i'm still here
20:28
<jason_>
this puppy has been running forever..
20:28
still no errors...
20:28
crossing fingers...
20:32
completed successfully...
20:32
<mgariepy>
Ghidorah, are you still there ?
20:39
<jason_>
alkisg: I built the chroot without error. However, I still cannot netbook a powerpc system off of my powerpc server. Nothing happens.
20:40
alkisg: however, I'm running late... going to look at a house tonight. so I must go. But THANK YOU alkisg and vagrantc for helping me further with this.
20:40
<alkisg>
jason_: do you see a tftp request in the logs?
20:40
<jason_>
sec, I can check that real quick...
20:40
I have dhcp discover, offer, request, and ack
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20:41
<alkisg>
No tftp? Then your dhcpd settings are probably wrong
20:41
<jason_>
I copied them from the crossarch page
20:41
my IP scheme Im testing with matched up
20:41
so I kept it
20:41
/opt/ltsp/powerpc is the chroot, etc
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20:41
<jason_>
I wasnt sure what else I should edit
20:42
<alkisg>
Well, for the rest of the "booting a powerpc" process, I've no idea, so I'll leave that part to others, more experienced with ppcs :)
20:42
<jason_>
sounds good. at least we got the chroot!
20:42
that's a huge step
20:42
<alkisg>
But it sounds to me like you should be seeing a tftp request
20:42
Do you have the tftp files now?
20:43
/var/lib/tftpboot/* ?
20:43
<jason_>
tftp files?
20:43
ah
20:43
sec
20:43
ltsp, yaboot, yaboot.conf
20:44
<alkisg>
ok, it still sounds like a dhcpd.conf problem
20:44
Paste your dhcpd.conf
20:44
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, isn't it?
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20:44
<jason___>
lost connection
20:44
anyway, yeah I hear ya alkisg
20:45
but I gotta hit the road. thanks to you and these other guys we're in better shape now
20:45
take it easy!
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21:02
<Levende>
following this tutorial for integrating LTSP with a Debian install: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto if I plan on doing fatclients, I'd want ltsp-build-client --fatclient right?
21:02
doesn't seem to be much documentation, so I'm piecing together a few tutorials
21:03
but the Ubuntu tutorial for fatclients, there is no --fatclient flag on the ltsp-build-client
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21:16
<alkisg>
Levende: I don't think Debian supports --fatclient yet
21:16
So you'd need to build a thin chroot, add extra packages, and do a few steps manually
21:16
Like disabling network manager and choosing ldm over gdm
21:17
If you can read shell, then see what the ubuntu plugin does, and do similar things on your debian installation
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21:48
<Ghidorah>
Does anyone know of a easy way to mass reboot thin clients?
21:54
<abeehc>
easy is relative; i have my chrtoot unlocked and use publickey auth to reboot em, after port scanning the subnet they exist on for machines listening on ssh
21:56
<Ghidorah>
That's a pretty neat way of doing it
21:56* alkisg uses a special monitoring tool he developed :D
21:56
<alkisg>
To be available in multiple languages in a few weeks
21:57
<Ghidorah>
alkisg: is this your iTalc alternative?
21:57
<alkisg>
Yes
21:58
<Ghidorah>
I cannot wait for it to be released then
21:58
<alkisg>
It's almost ready for a 0.1 version, just a bit of bug squashing
21:58
<Ghidorah>
iTalc got shotdown here
21:58
<alkisg>
Same here, that's the main reason we developed it
21:59
<Ghidorah>
I was really hoping it would do the trick
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21:59
<Ghidorah>
we have this aging hardware control system for the computers
22:00
where the keyboard,mouse and vga plug into it first
22:00
and then the control box plugs into the computer
22:00
<alkisg>
VNC is much easier...
22:01
<Ghidorah>
The teacher(s) want to be able to lock the terminal screens
22:01
and do demo's on terminal screens
22:01
I'm not sure how to do that with VNC
22:01
<alkisg>
We already have those, and lots more
22:02
E.g. mute sound, execute commands...
22:02
<Ghidorah>
Sounds like a few weeks you'll be my hero... yet again.
22:04
<abeehc>
no doubt same here
22:04
for vnc i do roughly the same things as the reboot script using x11vnc on the client...currently
22:05
<Ghidorah>
abeehc: so you have x11vnc in the chroot
22:05
then your script connecting to the clients?
22:06
<abeehc>
yep
22:07
for a long time i did it manually then i wrote a crappy script for a less skilled tech to start x11vnc, takes argument of username and uses who to figure out what to do
22:07
that guys gone now i don't know if he even used it; i still do it manually for the odd times i need to show users something or watch some kinda problem happening
22:08
<Ghidorah>
So you'll have a user at your desk and you VNC to a thinclient to demo something?
22:09
<abeehc>
no0 i work from home a lot, so i will talk to them over the phone at times, and vnc to their desktop
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22:10
<abeehc>
somtimes if they are lame enough to leave themselves logged in, and then come to my desk that might happen
22:10
<Ghidorah>
oh I'm jealous of you right now'
22:10
<alkisg>
We have a "remote assistance" option for that, it uses reverse vnc connections to bypass the need for port forwarding
22:11
<Ghidorah>
Oh that'd be nice
22:12
<abeehc>
with vpn i dont have the need to port forward but that sounds very nice lookin forward to trying it out
22:12
<Ghidorah>
Is there a mailing list or something alkisg for notification on the release of your new tool?
22:13
<alkisg>
Ghidorah: when it's a bit more tested, we'll announce it at ltsp and edubuntu mailing lists
22:13
<Ghidorah>
On another note is anyone going to the LTSP By The Sea conference?
22:14
<alkisg>
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_ByTheSea2011
22:15
<Ghidorah>
I got my school to approve a donation to the conference
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22:15
<Ghidorah>
My boss is working with Mr. McQuillan to get a PO cut
22:16
<alkisg>
Ah, fine
22:16
<Ghidorah>
I wish I could go
22:16
<Phantomas>
Hello
22:16
<alkisg>
Phantomas is the main developer of the new tool, called "epoptes" - you can bug him to release sooner :D
22:16
<Ghidorah>
However I have little to offer as I'm just a admin
22:16
<Phantomas>
alkisg: :p sooner than tomorrow? :D
22:17
<alkisg>
Tomorrow? really? I thought it'd take weeks... :D
22:17
<Phantomas>
/kick alkisg
22:17
:p
22:17
<Ghidorah>
sudo apt-get purge italc
22:17
<Phantomas>
hahaha
22:19
Ghidorah: hope you will, soon ;)
22:19
<Ghidorah>
lol
22:19
I'm doing it right now
22:21
<alkisg>
Goodnight all
22:21
<Ghidorah>
'nite
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22:42
<Gadi>
!disable-compiz
22:42
<ltsp>
Gadi: disable-compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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22:53
<Levende>
!fatclient
22:53
<ltsp>
Levende: I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
22:53
<Levende>
!fat-client
22:53
<ltsp>
Levende: I do not know about 'fat-client', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients'
22:54
<Levende>
!fatclients
22:54
<ltsp>
Levende: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
23:07
<Ghidorah>
Does anyone know if it is possible to change the location of the tmp file for nbd_swap?
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