IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 May 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:36
<Nikopoika>
i'm having sort of a problem while booting thin client... using debian etch and ltsp 5 (used this -> http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto)
01:37
my client starts to load kernel but then freezes with a text: "Segment <lots of numbers> does not fit in any memory region"
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02:09
<nf1>
Hi, I just bought a monitor with integrated thin client in ti. The NIC is a 3COM and I boot using PXE. It receives the DHCP conf., the client also uncompress the kernel and starts booting but at the beginning of the boot process I got: Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
02:09
Any Idea? When I use my notebook as thin client it boots fine.
02:11
<vagrantc>
how much ram?
02:11
<cyberorg>
how much memory on both machines?
02:11
vagrantc: heh, you beat me to it :)
02:11
<nf1>
on the new thin client it's about 107mb of ram
02:11
(I know it's strange number :))
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02:13
<vagrantc>
nf1: which distro? which version of ltsp?
02:13
<nf1>
vagrantc, Debian Sid with LTSP5
02:14
I tried using kernels 2.6.18-4 and 2.6.20-1, the result was the same with both kernels
02:15
<vagrantc>
nf1: and another machine boots fine?
02:15
<nf1>
yes
02:16
<vagrantc>
nf1: the other machine is also using PXE ?
02:16
or etherboot?
02:17
<nf1>
PXE, it's intel NIC
02:17
<vagrantc>
nf1: only thing i can think is the NIC is not detected ...
02:18
nf1: so... you get the first DHCP which then loads the kernel and initrd ... yes ?
02:18
nf1: does it do a second DHCP request?
02:21
<nf1>
I think it does. It gets the IP from the DHCP server, after that it starts to uncompress the kernel, then it goes initrd, then it detects some hardware (serial, usb...) after that it complains (error for one library libcrypt.so.1) and then I got the kernel panic
02:21
<vagrantc>
nf1: that sounds like it's only doing the first dhcp request
02:23
nf1: i haven't tried building a sid environment in a while... maybe there's something broken in sid ...
02:23
nf1: you could re-build the chroot with --dist etch and see if it works ...
02:23
nf1: but first move aside /opt/ltsp/i386 to /opt/ltsp/i386.old or something
02:24
<nf1>
well it's working with the other thin clients. ok I'll try build with etch. 10x. And about the second DHCP request, can you point me to where start looking.
02:25
<vagrantc>
nf1: well, it'll spit out a bunch of information about the DHCP server and the root path and such ... lots of ip addresses ..
02:26
i should do a screenshot of it sometime ...
02:26
<nf1>
in the server's /var/log/syslog I got: (let me try the pastebot for first time :))
02:27
<vagrantc>
this whole working with other thin clients part is perplexing ...
02:27
maybe it's not worth re-building the whole chroot
02:28
nf1: do you know what module is needed for your network card ?
02:28
<nf1>
I'm not sure for the module but the NIC is 3Com
02:31
<vagrantc>
do you see any lines beginning with "eth0:" at boot?
02:31
nf1: any lines suggesting it detected your network card?
02:32
<ltsppbot>
"nf1" pasted "thin client boot problem (kernel panic)" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/134
02:32
<nf1>
http://pastebot.ltsp.org/134 here's the dhcp request
02:33
<vagrantc>
and you're sure that's not some other machine making that dhcp request?
02:34
<nf1>
yes, for the test of this thin client it's only this client in the network
02:35
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "ipconfig at boot" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/135
02:35
<nf1>
oops, I paste the lines for the test with the notebook, my bad, i'll paste for the client
02:35
<vagrantc>
yeah. :P
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02:36
<ltsppbot>
"nf1" pasted "the right dhcp request" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/136
02:36
<valvoja>
anyone know how to get hp t5135 thin client work with linux. graphic drivers are my problem
02:37
<nf1>
now it's the right one :)
02:39
<vagrantc>
nf1: so ... the server's making an offer and the thin client's not seeing it or something.
02:39
nf1: try other ports on your switch or other cables ... or if possible, swapping out the network card.
02:40
nf1: try one thing at a time...
02:41
<nf1>
I can't change the NIC it's a 19" LCD with everything integrated in it. But I'll try the cables and the switch. Thank youy for your help, I'll let you know how it goes if you're interested
02:41
<vagrantc>
nf1: just keep posting here :)
02:42
<nf1>
vagrantc, :) ok
02:48
<agike>
/Quit
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04:35
<dean_za>
Hi , I am having issues with TCM , I have installed x11vnc , edited the rc.local file and moved K99rc.local to S99rc.local in /etc/rc2.d/ I have rebooted both server and clients ans I still cannot use either the share desktop or view desktop functions , can someone please give me hint as to what else to try ,this is edubuntu 7.04
04:36
RichEd from edubuntu ird said I should ask here
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08:15
<mhterres>
morning
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08:43
<petre>
morning all
08:43
<Nikopoika>
mo'orning
08:46
<vagrantc>
buenas tardes
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08:47
<ogra>
vagrantc, hey, you just missed the edubuntu meeting ... i wanted to introduce you ;)
08:47
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, if someone had informed me that it existed, i might have tried to attend :P
08:48
<Gadi>
hola, amigos
08:48
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, enjoy your travel ... no duties yet :)
08:48
hey Gadi
08:48
<Gadi>
hey, ogra
08:49
<vagrantc>
ogra: today, for less than 4 euros, bought some tasty olives and excellent cheese that would have cost well over $30 in the US
08:49
<Gadi>
btw, ogra, since you guys are looking at speed, I notice in my testing that if I enable the logging to the server from the thin client, it makes the initial ssh connection take a long time (what with flooding of the net with packets)
08:50
you may want to turn off logging and see the impact?
08:50
<vagrantc>
if it weren't for all that conquest and inquisitions and such, i wouldn't have much bad to say about spain
08:50
<Gadi>
tho, sounds like ur packing it in over there :)
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08:52
<petre>
Gadi: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:52
<Gadi>
hola, petre
08:52
<petre>
one month to go to NCLS, flyers went out to all the schools in MN on Monday
08:52
<Burgundavia>
vagrantc and I had a great chat while walking about ltsp and creating a "better upstream" model for it
08:53
<vagrantc>
or else
08:53
<petre>
got your plane ticket yet?
08:53
<Gadi>
petre doesn't know me very well do he?
08:53
;)
08:53
I'll have my plane ticket the week of at best :D
08:54
<cliebow_>
Gadi:!!!!
08:54
<Gadi>
but, its on my todo list today to check flights
08:54
<petre>
oh, are you one of those who heads to the airport five minutes before departure time? ;-)
08:54
<Gadi>
:-D
08:54
<ogra>
Gadi, thanks for the pointer, i'll take a look
08:54
<petre>
(been there, done that)
08:54
<Gadi>
ogra: btw, I have a whole mess of patches for the python ldm to add features
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08:55
<Gadi>
but, if you've moved to the C-based one, I'll hold off
08:55
<vagrantc>
Gadi: well, significant portions are still in python ...
08:55
Gadi: it's mainly the greeter that's in C
08:55
<Gadi>
ah, is *ldm* still a python script?
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08:55
<Gadi>
ie /usr/sbin/ldm
08:55
<vagrantc>
so far, i think so
08:55
sbalneav: hi!
08:56
<sbalneav>
Morning all!
08:56
<Gadi>
ah, well that is all I have patched
08:56
<petre>
sbalneav: !!!!!
08:56
<ogra>
!s
08:56
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:56
<sbalneav>
:)
08:57
<petre>
Gadi: what features do your patches add to ldm?
08:58
<ogra>
Gadi, we'll keep the python wrapper for now it makes secure programming easier ... i'm fearing a bit to switch that part to C ... the greeter will se a complete rewrite
08:59
<Gadi>
I added in: "Direct X", autologin, and separate ssh server (from SERVER)
08:59
"Direct X" just means that the X traffic goes straight back to the client and not through the tunnel
08:59
these are all switches
08:59
in lts.conf
09:00
<ogra>
you mean you link the xauth file to a public generic name ?
09:00
<petre>
oh good, autologin is a must-have for our younger kids
09:00
<ogra>
or how do you do that ?
09:00
(direct X)
09:00
for the autologin we agreed to look at sdm's features, but if you already have something we'll take that into account as well indeed
09:00
<Gadi>
instead of "ssh -X", I take out the "-X" part and set the DISPLAY variable in the ssh env command
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09:01* Gadi knows not from sdm ;)
09:01
<ogra>
why do you need ssh there ?
09:01
<vagrantc>
Gadi: so ... you use ssh for authentication ... slick!
09:01
<ogra>
oh207, you want to have a second greeter and stuff ?
09:01
<Gadi>
to launch the session and to retain localdev support
09:01
:D
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09:01
<petre>
ogra: what's sdm?
09:01
<ogra>
ah
09:02
<vagrantc>
Gadi: you rock!
09:02
<ogra>
petre, an ssh display manager similar to ldm
09:02* Gadi likes to have cake and eat it too
09:02
<vagrantc>
that's way better than XDMCP
09:02* ogra hugs Gadi
09:02
<Gadi>
yup
09:02
all easy patches, btw
09:02
<ogra>
well, essentially it is XDMCP, isnt it ?
09:02
<Gadi>
but with a tunnel for doing stuff like localdev
09:02
<ogra>
yeah
09:02
sexy
09:03
<Gadi>
video ROCKS, btw, with DirectX
09:03
<ogra>
no extra work required to get localdev working and a safe tunnel :)
09:03
yay
09:03
<Gadi>
you just lose the security
09:03
<vagrantc>
which we were exploring ways to loose anyways.
09:03
<ogra>
not as much as with plain XDMCP ;)
09:03
<Gadi>
right
09:03
<vagrantc>
most excellent hacks from Gadi.
09:03
<Gadi>
Im glad you like - I thought for sure you guys would hate the idea
09:04
<vagrantc>
what's the other stuff
09:04
<ogra>
nah, its beautiful
09:04
<vagrantc>
it means we don't have to support XDMCP as much
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09:04
<Gadi>
well, I have a LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD, LDM_SESSION, LDM_LANGUAGE
09:04
if you just set LDM_USERNAME, it will use that username and empty password
09:04
and not use the greeter
09:04
<vagrantc>
nice
09:05
<ogra>
hmm
09:05
<Gadi>
that way, you can use ssh keys
09:05
<vagrantc>
yeah
09:05
<Gadi>
otherwise, you have the even more unsafe option of using a password
09:05
<ogra>
i dont like LDM_PASSWORD
09:05
<vagrantc>
Gadi: what about an LDM_KEY or something ?
09:05
<Gadi>
:D
09:05
right
09:05
we could do that
09:05
<ogra>
potential security risk
09:05
<Gadi>
LDM_USERNAME supports commands, too
09:05
<vagrantc>
hrm?
09:05
<Gadi>
if you do: LDM_USERNAME = "hostname|"
09:06
it will use the hostname of the client
09:06
<vagrantc>
reasonable ...
09:06
<Gadi>
(retrieved from the hostname command)
09:06
which is what you would need if you just have a [Default] section
09:06
and dont specify every ws
09:07
<vagrantc>
sounds pretty similar to sdm's default behavior with autologin
09:07
ogra: sounds like Gadi has implemented some of the sdm merging :)
09:07
<Gadi>
so, basically, autologin can be achieved with: LDM_USERNAME = "hostname|" and a bunch of symlinks of authorized_keys in user accounts with username=hostname
09:08
<ogra>
jus mail me the branch details, we'll merge it
09:08
<Gadi>
I figure "autologin" is almost by definition insecure
09:08
so, might as well make things easy
09:08
:D
09:08
<ogra>
well, its in the hands of the admin ;)
09:08
<Gadi>
right
09:08
<ogra>
we need to provide the most secure switch for them though
09:09
<Gadi>
these are all switches
09:09
<petre>
who makes/maintains sdm?
09:09
<Gadi>
by default, its same ole ldm
09:09
<vagrantc>
petre: i'm the author of sdm :)
09:09
<Gadi>
of course, I have just been hacking and not actually "bzr"-ing
09:10
<ogra>
bzr it then :)
09:10
<vagrantc>
jonas smedegaard "maintains" it in debian. though as upstream, i haven't actually done much of anything with it. unlike lessdisks.
09:10
<Gadi>
so, it would take some time for me to break out the various changes
09:10
unless I can just do one branch?
09:10
<petre>
vagrantc: tx
09:10
<ogra>
petre, the plan is to merge sdm and ldm ... the sdm UI can then be the "low ressources" greeter for ldm
09:11
<petre>
ogra reads petre's mind
09:11
<Gadi>
ogra: is the sdm UI the C based one?
09:11
<vagrantc>
Xdialog :)
09:11
<ogra>
and ldm should gain all the features sdm has
09:11
hehe
09:11
yay for uglyness :)
09:11
<vagrantc>
and then i can finally obselete all the projects of lessdisks.net :)
09:11
obsolete
09:11
since the domain expires soon
09:12
<Gadi>
wouldnt Xdialog and C/GTK have practically the same resources?
09:12
<vagrantc>
who knows till we try
09:12
possibly
09:12
<Gadi>
Xdialog = C/GTK
09:12
:)
09:12
<vagrantc>
depends on how it's written
09:13
<ogra>
Xdialog == plain Xlib
09:13
<vagrantc>
no, it's GTK
09:13
<ogra>
you want zenity if you want gtk dialogs
09:13
<Gadi>
no, Xdialog is GTK
09:13
<ogra>
huh ? since when ?
09:14
<vagrantc>
since i started using it in ... 2001 ?
09:14
<Gadi>
trust me, we've patched it :)
09:14
<vagrantc>
ogra: you're thinking xmessage
09:14
<Gadi>
bbiab, folks
09:15
<ogra>
ah, right
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09:27* ogra twiddles thumbs waiting for jammcq
09:28
<cliebow_>
jammcq..ohhh ..jammcq...com out and play...
09:29
<ogra>
ooooh, apparently our xsrever package supports preseeding of xserver-xorg/config/device/extra_options
09:30
that will get us X_MODE and X_VIDEORAM options back :)
09:30
<cliebow_>
cool!!
09:30* vagrantc smells an X_CONFIG_DEVICE_EXTRA_OPTIONS coming on
09:31
<ogra>
no, 4.2 apparently already supported X_DEVICE_OPTION_xx
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09:31
<ogra>
i just got a mail with a patch
09:31
<vagrantc>
heh
09:31
<ogra>
from someone whi was to lazy to fix his lts.conf and patched ltsp-client instead
09:31
*g*
09:32
<vagrantc>
we should review all the supported 4.2 options an either implement or at least document backwards compatibility bits
09:32
<ogra>
they are bugs and should just be fixed
09:32
we should identify them indeed
09:35
<Guaraldo>
sbalneav: Hi... can you halp me with this VGA compatible controller? It's a via that xorg of the ltsp cant find... lspci brings me this code: 1106:3344.
09:37
sbalneav: it's just working with vesa driver... but it gives me a bad definition (maximum 1024x764), but the ideal for this monitor is 1280x1024...
09:37
<ogra>
Guaraldo, thats likely openchrome
09:38
<sbalneav>
Guaraldo: This with Ubuntu?
09:38
<ogra>
the openchrome driver didnt see any stable releases yet ... your best bet is to compile it from CVS and replace the via module in the client environment
09:38
<Guaraldo>
ogra: Yep... I've found this in my researches... but I don't know how can I correct it...
09:38
sbalneav: Yep... Faisty
09:39
<ogra>
thast something that applies to all ltsp versions ...
09:39
<Guaraldo>
sbalneav: a drapper upgraded!
09:39
<ogra>
4.2 as well as 5
09:39
<sbalneav>
ogra: Hmm, wonder if we can find an unofficial openchrome .deb he can install in the chroot.
09:39
<ogra>
i'm trying to get openchrome packages for gutsy, but no promises
09:40
sbalneav, i dont thing there is a .deb for it ... i have a driver binary somwehere (dont ask me where) to make the 1220 go
09:40* sbalneav googles
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09:40
<Guaraldo>
ogra: you gave me a good choice... I'll try, than I tel you...
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09:42
<sbalneav>
hehe
09:42
<ogra>
get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/via_drv.so and replace /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/via_drv.so eith it
09:42
*with
09:42
<Gadi>
ogra: what was the upshot of all the profiling work?
09:42
<ogra>
its compiled for feisty
09:43* Gadi has been out of loop
09:43
<ogra>
Gadi, that we didnt find the big switch we need to flip
09:43
<sbalneav>
here was the fortune I just got when I popped open my terminal
09:43
<Gadi>
:(
09:43
<sbalneav>
A billion seconds ago Harry Truman was president.
09:43
A billion minutes ago was just after the time of Christ.
09:43
A billion hours ago man had not yet walked on earth.
09:43
A billion dollars ago was late yesterday afternoon at the U.S. Treasury.
09:43
<ogra>
i'm waiting for jammcq t tell the last results
09:44
<Gadi>
ogra: do you do all of your tests with logging enabled to the server?
09:44
<ogra>
i'm down to 1:30 boottome for the e2300 here though ... but thats with a static xorg.conf
09:44
yes
09:44
<Gadi>
hmm...
09:44
<ogra>
i dont log in
09:44
we only measure boospeed
09:44
*boot
09:44
<sbalneav>
1:30? That's an improvement
09:44
<ogra>
sbalneav, using XDMCP and a static xorg.conf
09:44
<Gadi>
still, it logs every step over the network
09:45
perhaps that introduces some delay?
09:45
<sbalneav>
ogra: See? XDMCP: Still good for something :)
09:45
<Gadi>
noticeable on slower clients
09:45
<ogra>
Gadi, we can move the start of logging into ltsp-client after X is up
09:45
thats no prob
09:45
sbalneav, yes, and with Gadis patch even localdev will work right away
09:46
<sbalneav>
What's gadi doing? Haven't seen this patch...
09:46
<ogra>
so many bright ltsp devs and nobody had the obvious idea Gadi had ...
09:46* ogra hangs his head in shame
09:46
<Gadi>
hey
09:46
what does that make me?
09:46
y'know you miss 1 trip to Spain....
09:46
<ogra>
sbalneav, removing -X from the ssh stanza and exporting DISPLAY with the server ip :)
09:47
so you have ssh auth in the backend, using the tunnel etc but on top its XDMCP
09:47
<sbalneav>
lol
09:47
<ogra>
sooo trivial
09:47
<Gadi>
my ideas are borne out of something that many devs lack - really demanding customers
09:47* ogra bonks his head against his whiteboard
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09:47
<sbalneav>
heh, so still using LDM.
09:47
<ogra>
yeah
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09:48
<Gadi>
y'know, I'm in the room
09:48
<ogra>
and no weird patches to ssh needed
09:48
<sbalneav>
Gadi: It's brilliant.
09:48
<ogra>
yeah
09:48
<Gadi>
*sigh*
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09:48
<sbalneav>
\o/ for Gadi
09:48* ogra cheers
09:48
<sbalneav>
ok, so here's the question.
09:48
<Gadi>
just put me in the credits somehwere under the barber of seville
09:49
<ogra>
haha
09:49
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: we might even not need to support the localdev for both ssh and XDMCP
09:49
<ogra>
right
09:49
<Gadi>
indeed not
09:49
<sbalneav>
Wonder if we can script password expirey.
09:49
<vagrantc>
i mean, we should explore the idea if it's easier
09:49
<sbalneav>
via the ssh.
09:49
<ogra>
sbalneav, ++
09:49
<vagrantc>
there were some positive things in the idea
09:49
<ogra>
and smartcards
09:50
<Gadi>
I can give you smartcard support in one line
09:50
<sbalneav>
Oh, I'll drop my stuff in an instant, IF I can get password expires.
09:50
<ogra>
i get requests once every quater for smartcard support
09:51
<sbalneav>
Gadi: Did I ever tell you how much I love you? :)
09:51
<Gadi>
but, then that's trivial too:
09:51
-I smartcard_device
09:51
Specify the device ssh should use to communicate with a smartcard
09:51
used for storing the user’s private RSA key.
09:51
(from man ssh)
09:51
personally, what I would like to see is a switch in ldm to tunnel *everything* or *nothing*
09:51
but, that's a bit more work
09:51
:-D
09:52gepatino has joined #ltsp
09:52
<Gadi>
everything = localdev, sound, X, ...
09:52
I do have a request from you guys, tho
09:53
eh, nm
09:54
I just talked myself out of that
09:54* Gadi is a bit crazy these days
09:54
<ogra>
i dont see the real need to tunnel *everything*
09:54
<Gadi>
need coffee
09:54
yes, but I do
09:54
:)
09:54
see, we have slightly different needs from LTSP
09:54
<ogra>
especially since it puts a lot extra load on the client
09:55
<Gadi>
heh, that's not what you said about X
09:55
;)
09:55
well, if at least localdev could be tunneled
09:55
<ogra>
yeah... but sounds ?
09:55
<Gadi>
sound, I suppose is optional
09:55
<ogra>
right
09:56
<Gadi>
even NX sound isn't fantastic on far servers
09:56
most protocols for that matter
09:56
<ogra>
they dont use pulseaudio ;)
09:56
<Gadi>
but, localdev should still work
09:56
<ogra>
i havent seen any bad things wth pulse yet
09:56
*with
09:56
<Gadi>
well, if I connect to your server in Germany, ogra, pulse would still not fair well when tunneled
09:57
<vagrantc>
it would be nice if everything would work across NAT
09:57
<Gadi>
indeed
09:57
for me, it becomes even more than a nicety
09:57
we would just need something to manage ports
09:57
<vagrantc>
and pumping everything through ssh would make NAT an option
09:57
<ogra>
well, with the option to run ldm as standalone login manager it might become an issue
09:58
<Gadi>
?
09:58
<ogra>
so send your patches :)
09:58
<Gadi>
thx
09:58
but, my patches don't always get merged :P
09:58
specially if it is not inline with Ubuntu's LTSP mission statement
09:58
<ogra>
even though i would still prefer to be able to do fine grained switching per feature
09:59
<Gadi>
indeed
09:59
I always make switches
09:59
I am an electrical engineer, remember?
09:59
<ogra>
Gadi, there will be another guy caring for ubuntu ltsp soon ... he is more on your side ;)
09:59
<Burgundavia>
heh
09:59
<Gadi>
what?
09:59
why?
09:59
<Burgundavia>
the very talk vagrantc and I had while exploring the wonderful city of Madrid
09:59
<ogra>
configurability uber alles ;) debian compliance as well :)
10:00* vagrantc stares blankly
10:00
<ogra>
heh
10:00
<highvoltage>
debian ftw
10:00
<Gadi>
*sigh* more corporate politics... whats an engineer to do?
10:00
<vagrantc>
free the world?
10:00
yeah!
10:00* sbalneav potters around with expired accounts to figure out ssh behaviour
10:00
<Burgundavia>
convert to communism
10:01
<Gadi>
speaking of corporate politics, back to work...
10:01
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i think with password expiry we'd need to properly implement a real ssh-askpass
10:01
i *think* that would work
10:01
<sbalneav>
right
10:01
<ogra>
Gadi, i'm having a very closed focus on ubuntu ... vagrantc will take more of the other stuff into account and (hopefully) push me in the right directions
10:02
<Burgundavia>
that might be better phrased as "I have a very narrow focus", ogra?
10:02
<Gadi>
so, debian chroots in my future?
10:02
<ogra>
yeah
10:02
Gadi, no the same chroots for all deb based systems ;)
10:02
<vagrantc>
it's about time to do another debian fork.
10:02
<Gadi>
heh
10:02
*sigh*
10:03
<Burgundavia>
nerfupstreambuntu
10:03
<Gadi>
I might as well fork my own
10:03
<vagrantc>
yeah!
10:03
fork the world!
10:03MoL0ToV has quit IRC
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10:03* ogra likes spoons more
10:04* sbalneav prefers sporks
10:04
<ogra>
bah, there is no english word for göffel
10:04
sporks would probably be the right one
10:05
<Burgundavia>
are we talking a fork and sppon thingy?
10:05
<vagrantc>
like a spoon with some pointy things on the end?
10:05
<ogra>
ah, wikipedia agrees
10:05
"Ebenso geläufig ist heute die analoge englische Wortschöpfung Spork, gebildet aus dem englischen spoon („Löffel“) und fork („Gabel“)"
10:05
<Burgundavia>
vagrantc: you realize we are violating the 3m rule
10:05
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: that's why i've mostly been ignoring you
10:05
<Burgundavia>
heh
10:06
<ogra>
http://www.bitclix.de/shop/pic.php?mypic=926311.png
10:06
thats a göffel/spork :)
10:06
<Burgundavia>
right
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10:09* ogra goes downstairs for more coffee and a break
10:18
<Gadi>
!pastebot
10:19
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
10:20
<cliebow_>
!factoids search --values
10:20
<ltspbot>
cliebow_: 'ltsp', 'ubuntu', 'sbalneav', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'debian', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'greyscreen', 'grayscreen', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'serversizing', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'ubuntuquick', 'integration', 'lts.conf', 'pastebot', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', (1 more message)
10:20
<ltsppbot>
"Gadi" pasted "combo patch for ldm" (98 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/137
10:20
<Gadi>
if ur interested, there's the patch
10:21irule has quit IRC
10:21
<Gadi>
may not have much time to bzr...
10:21
as fun as it is...
10:22
:)
10:23
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i don't have the time to pull patches out of pastebots :P
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10:36
<Guaraldo>
ogra: ...
10:37
ogra: "and replace /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/via_drv.so eith it"... My LTSP4.2 doesnt have this folder...
10:40
ogra: I've found it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers
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11:17
<krinns>
hi all
11:17
i want to do install ltsp4.2 on novel linix desktop
11:18
ltsp4.2 is not a big deal
11:18
but how i enable usb in 4.2
11:18
any clue?
11:18
<vagrantc>
!checklist
11:18
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "checklist" is The checklist for debugging problems with local device access is at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting. Please work through all 12 steps, record the results, and paste the results to the pastebot at http://pastebot.ltsp.org
11:18
<vagrantc>
krinns: try that
11:19
<krinns>
that link
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11:28
<ogra>
hmm, i'm just testing gadis patch
11:28
somehow ssh -X is a lot faster on the e2300
11:29
i cant even drag my firefox win around
11:33
<sutula>
vagrantc: On the Debian Etch version, ltsp-server, are there extra tricks to getting X parameters passed from lts.conf to the client's X session? I couldn't get X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024 and X_HORZSYNC = "30-70" to work last night
11:34* sutula didn't try that hard, but is wondering if something is different with that setup
11:34* vagrantc looks
11:34
<vagrantc>
hrm.
11:35
<ogra>
X_HORZSYNC doesnt work without X_VERTREFRESH
11:35
<vagrantc>
apparently you need to set both X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH for either to work
11:35* vagrantc suspected it, but needed to confirm
11:35
<vagrantc>
ogra: finally, you one-up me! :P
11:35
<ogra>
:)
11:36
<sutula>
vagrantc: OK...also are they picked up only if I use ldm, or would they be effective with SCREEN_07 = startx
11:36
<vagrantc>
sutula: those should work with either
11:36
<sutula>
vagrantc, ogra: Thanks much
11:36
<vagrantc>
por supuesto
11:37
<ogra>
hmm, i'm not really convinced gadis patch is as good as it looks like
11:38
dragging windows around gets this little thingie to 100% CPU usage
11:38
<vagrantc>
well, if the patch is bad, we can re-engineer the idea
11:38
oh really?
11:38
<ogra>
yeah
11:38
it still uses the tunnel for all data, but without using the X proxy from ssh
11:39
<vagrantc>
i don't see how that could be.
11:39
<ogra>
it will help a lot with multimedia on powerful clients but doesnt seem really useful as default
11:39
<vagrantc>
definitely not as default
11:40
<ogra>
he still calls ssh user@server "DISPLAY=ip:6 /etc/X11/Xsession"
11:40
<vagrantc>
yes... and?
11:40
<ogra>
which means the whole network traffic is still encrypted
11:40
<vagrantc>
no
11:40
it shouldn't be
11:40
<ogra>
ssh -X opens a proxy on both sides
11:40
<vagrantc>
if you skip the -X , it shouldn't make use of the proxy
11:41
<ogra>
so localhost:11 on the server is redirected to :6 on the client
11:41
it doesnt
11:41
but all the application data goes still through the tunnel
11:41
<vagrantc>
hrm.
11:41
i suspect we can get it working
11:41
some trivial mistake or something
11:42
<ogra>
i dont think it can work the way he implemented it
11:42
by design
11:42
it might be another drawback of the e2300 though
11:42
<vagrantc>
well, i'll explore it
11:43
<ogra>
i'll test with a real client
11:43
this 200Mhz CPU that also does graphics and sound isnt really great ...
11:43
i'm not convinced at all by it ...
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11:50
<krinns>
vagrant
11:50
u there
11:50
i wont see novel linux desktop
11:50
there
11:50
i think suse things works fine
11:50
well do i need to install fuse for local device support
11:51
<ogra>
you need fuse on the server, yes
11:51
and the user needs to be able to access /dev/fuse
11:51
(usually thats done by adding him/her to the fuse group)
11:51
<vagrantc>
or whatever crazy way novell's fuse support does it
11:51
<highvoltage>
ogra: how politically correct of you ;)
11:52cy_coe has joined #ltsp
11:52
<ogra>
heh
11:53* vagrantc apparently isn't so diplomatic today
11:54
<highvoltage>
ogra: I got a message from launchpad the other day that said something like "User JaneW's membership has expired, or the user has unsubscribed himself".
11:54
ogra: so I launched a bug in LP for that :)
11:54
<ogra>
to make JaneW rejoin ?
11:57bobby_C has joined #ltsp
11:57
<highvoltage>
ogra: to not call JaneW "himself"
11:57Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:57
<highvoltage>
ogra: JaneW is a "she", if you haven't noticed ;)
11:58* highvoltage blames all the transexuals for this
11:58
<ogra>
ouch, indeed
11:58
hmm, highvoltage remember that you saw TCP packages from the udp nfsroot ?
11:59
<highvoltage>
ogra: I do inded
11:59
*indeed
11:59
<ogra>
looks like sunrpc still uses tcp even on udp -o nolock mounted nfsroots
11:59
<highvoltage>
I wonder why
11:59
<ogra>
thats quite weird
11:59
well, it shouldnt
12:00
beyond that nbd uses tcp indeed
12:00
so from the point on where network swap comes up you will see tcp traffic
12:00
but thats later in the loop than where we saw it in sevilla
12:01
<highvoltage>
yes, and we saw lots of tcp traffic even with nbd disabled
12:02
<ogra>
must have been portmap ...
12:02
<cy_coe>
(LTSP 4.2) My client refuses to start. After downloading and booting the kernel it quits with NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out..... ERROR! dhcpcd failed!
12:02
<highvoltage>
ogra: although, the rpc server must have support for UDP, because jammcq booted LTSP 4.2 from an Ubuntu server, and it was using UDP, iirc
12:02
<ogra>
yeah
12:02
its a client side thing
12:03
in any case ..
12:03
i did measure the vmlinuz and initramfs speeds btw ...
12:03
<highvoltage>
cy_coe: do you you have two network cardsa installed? you might have to disable the card you're not booting from.
12:03
ogra: I bet thery were the same
12:03
(well, more or less)
12:03
<ogra>
tsp 4.2 kernel enters the initramfs 11secs earlier
12:04
<cy_coe>
On the server are two, but the client has just one
12:04
<ogra>
they both need the same amount for working through the initramfs
12:05
<highvoltage>
ogra: have you tried different packet sizes? According tosection 4 on http://www.auug.org.au/publications/auugn/vol16no1/sunPaper.html it seems to make quite a big difference
12:05
(block sizes, even)
12:06
ogra: ignore that, it's probably irrelevant
12:06* highvoltage is just pulling straws
12:06
<ogra>
i used both with the default value ... which is rsize and wsize = 32768
12:07
it helps to set the values to 4096 ... but as long as both use the same vals it doesnt matter
12:07
<highvoltage>
cy_coe: ok, that sounds fine. I'm a bit out of it atm, hang around, i'm sure someone will be around soon that will be able to help you
12:07
<cy_coe>
ok
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12:34* ogra calls it a day
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13:04
<cy_coe>
(LTSP 4.2) My client refuses to start. After downloading and booting the kernel it quits with NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out..... ERROR! dhcpcd failed! Any hints how to solve that problem?
13:06
<cliebow_>
what kernel/
13:06
<cy_coe>
2.6.16
13:07
but the same occurs with other kernels....
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14:41
<cy_coe>
My client refuses to start. After downloading and booting the kernel ist quits with NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out..... ERROR! dhcpcd failed!
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15:40
<mattwalston>
anyone know how to open an ltsp session from a linux desktop or laptop? like in a nested window?
15:41Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:42
<Guaraldo>
mattwalston: I use NX (NoMachine)... But u must have a server part running on server and a client part on the client. An ssh access is needed too...
15:42
<jumako>
e.g.: Xnest -xkbmap /etc/X11/xkb -ac -geometry 1024x768 -query 192.168.0.11 :8 -fp tcp/192.168.0.11:7100
15:43
<mattwalston>
Guaraldo, what protocol is that? vnc?
15:43
jumako, I thought ltsp did not use xdmcp
15:43
<Guaraldo>
no... it uses ssh and nx...
15:43
<jumako>
it works (for me with ltsp 5)
15:44
<Guaraldo>
mattwalston: ltsp just exist becouse xdmcp...
15:45
mattwalston: like old Unix mainframes!
15:45
<sepski>
ltsp5 uses ldm across ssh, i dont think it uses nx by default (altho it can) and if you install eg kdm it can use xdmcp too
15:45
<mattwalston>
sepski, thanks
15:46* Guaraldo user ltsp 4.2... yet! But it will not be for much time...
15:46
<mattwalston>
my observation is that it does a great job at providing access from pxe booted clients, it would be nice to have a canned way to install a package on a laptop or desktop and be able to connect to your ltsp system over the vpn
15:47
<sepski>
mattwalston, if i want access to the desktop from outside i just install freenx on the ltsp desktop server.
15:47bronze has joined #ltsp
15:47
<mattwalston>
sepski, is freenx an x server or what?
15:48
<sepski>
and a tiny webserver with the nxapplet (nxclient on the webpage) then i can just surf to a url and get the client up (as long as the webbrowser has java)
15:48
mattwalston, it's a compression protocol and can be used on x vnc and rdp, but i use it on X and it gives me kde desktop.
15:49
<mattwalston>
sepski, oh ok
15:49
<sepski>
mattwalston, i have used it from cyprus to norway on a 33k6 line. and it was useable. vnc was plain hopeless.
15:49
<mattwalston>
sepski, impressive... i will be reading up on it
15:49Q-FUN1 has quit IRC
15:50
<sepski>
ofcourse you realy need it tho. since you can just use ssh -X -C host, and get the one or two app you need.
15:50
you usualy dont need the whole desktop anywa
15:51
<mattwalston>
sepski, it is for a non-technical user, we are replacing nt with rdp and some of the managment likes to be able to login
15:51
literally I had an email from our president wanting me to set-up gotomypc, but we don't have a single windows machine
15:52
<sepski>
mattwalston, then nx can be just that
15:52
<mattwalston>
sepski, thanks
15:52
<sepski>
mattwalston, use freenx on the desktop server and nxclient on windows laptops. if you need access from random machines or netcafes you can set up nxplugin on a webpage.
15:53
<mattwalston>
sepski, thanks
15:53Guaraldo has left #ltsp
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16:06
<cliebow>
nx Rocks!
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16:40
<davidj_away>
!jam
16:40
<ltspbot>
davidj_away: Error: "jam" is not a valid command.
16:40
<jammcq>
heh
16:41
hey davidj_away
16:41davidj_away is now known as davidj
16:41
<jammcq>
i'm heading out to dinner in a few minutes
16:41
<davidj>
I'm heading downstairs to light the grill in a few minutes.
16:41
How are you?
16:41
<jammcq>
doing great
16:41
what's up with you?
16:41
<davidj>
me too
16:42tiagovaz has quit IRC
16:42
<davidj>
A big potential client (~20,000 clients at 6 locations)
16:42
<jammcq>
wow
16:42
that's alot of clients
16:42
<davidj>
yes, 'tis.
16:43
At the moment they use norton ghost or similar to reimage machines
16:43
Sometimes three or more times a week.
16:43
<jammcq>
wow, that's just nonsense
16:43
<davidj>
Also, they throw machines away every 3 years without fail or exception.
16:45
It's the craziest setup I've ever seen. They have 299 "standard apps", everyone's in active directory, and all servers are in a single closet in a single building.
16:45
They consider switches to be servers, so they only use hubs at remote locations.
16:46
But they do have top of the line cisco equipment
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17:49
<PMantis>
davidj, If you need any help with that client, let me know. :)
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18:51* jbrett jumps up and down at *finally* getting "ltsp-build-client" to complete successfully on his ubuntu feisty machine.
18:52
<jbrett>
*man* that script is fragile (and irritating, since it makes me remove /opt/ltsp/i386 every *$#&@^$ time it fails to complete).
18:52
<jammcq>
oh yeah, like rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 is REALLY difficult :)
18:52
<dberkholz>
heh, if it only deleted that automatically it would be great and perfect
18:53
<jammcq>
but then, you could accidentally delete a production one
18:53
<jbrett>
jammcq: no, but waiting for it to re-download all the packages *for the thirteenth time* is pretty irritating.
18:53
<jammcq>
what's the problem causing it to fail?
18:53
<dberkholz>
why would you be running ltsp-build-client on it if it already existed?
18:53
<jbrett>
i.e. it's that the script *requires* me to remove it that's irritating.
18:53
<jammcq>
dberkholz: dunno, but it could easily happen
18:54
<jbrett>
jammcq: the first problem was that it didn't like the fact that I set "LANG=C" in my .bashrc
18:54
<jammcq>
it didn't like that? Seems like a bug report should be filed
18:54
<jbrett>
jammcq: the second problem is that I'm inside a firewall, and it couldn't resolve the hardcoded ubuntu mirror.
18:55
<jammcq>
hmm, another but report
18:55
<jbrett>
I can't remember what the third problem was..
18:56
oh, and the final/fourth problem was that something was out-of-sync with a mirror, and it thought a package was unsigned.
18:56
on all of these errors, it just failed, and required me to remove the i386 directory and start completely from scratch :o(
18:57
<jammcq>
ok, so go file bug reports, to prevent these things from happening to the next guy
18:57* jbrett is working on that..
18:57
<jammcq>
cool
18:57
<jbrett>
jammcq: I just had to vent here first ;o)
18:58* jbrett feels his blood pressure slowly lowering ;o)
18:59
<jbrett>
now that it's working though, it's pretty schweet :o)
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21:42
<crashdealer>
Hi all .. after installing ltsp how the client are supposed to log in the server?
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