IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

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06:10
<polytan>
hi guys
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08:12
<Sarten-X>
happy bot...
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08:46
<nubae>
stgraber: what are your ideas for built in support for Sugar in Jaunty LTSP?
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10:11
<francisc1701>
hi, I'm having the problem described here: http://tinyurl.com/65ad85 (or very similar), only with ubuntu intrepid. What should I do?
10:11
<saga>
hi room i want to remove /opt/ltsp/i386 directory but i cant remove it "rm -rf *" command says device is busy
10:12
how can i remove the /opt/ltsp/i386 directory
10:16
topic
10:20
<jhutchins>
It sees them. I can mount them to the local machine from the console, but that doesn't do any good. All of the troubleshooting steps in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev are ok, except the ltsp udev rule. Debian etchandahalf w/LTSP5
10:20
Oops. Looking for help on mounting local USB devices.
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10:28
<Ahmuck>
!docs
10:28
<ltspbot>
Ahmuck: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:29
<Ahmuck>
!docs
10:29
<ltspbot>
Ahmuck: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:29
<Ahmuck>
!doc
10:29
<ltspbot>
Ahmuck: Error: "doc" is not a valid command.
10:30
<jhutchins>
Ahmuck: are you trying to do something useful there?
10:32
<Ahmuck>
jhutchins: yes, sbalneav or stgraber has a special set of docs
10:32
i'm trying to find them. they are outside of the usual docs
10:33
jhutchins: edbuntu ?
10:33
<jhutchins>
what about it?
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10:49
<johnny>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:49
or !doco
10:49
oh.. yes.. that is the normal docs
10:49
those are the docs that sbalneav is working on
10:49
<Ahmuck>
ah, ok, thx
10:50
now i know why i got confused. his address is different than what the bot was showing for the !do* trigger
10:51
<johnny>
looks the same to me for !docs..
10:52
<Ahmuck>
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html !the same
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10:58
<polytan>
johnny, do you know if your installation of ltsp takes care of the lts.conf on the client machines ?
10:58
<johnny>
huh? installation?
10:59
it should not be installed, but instead be fetched
10:59
on boot
10:59
if you look in /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup you'll see how it works
10:59
i stole it from warren
10:59
<polytan>
ok
10:59
thanks :)
11:00
<johnny>
ubuntu does it differently
11:00
they pull in the initramfs, before actually being booted into the system
11:00
<polytan>
I thought that we had to modify things in /etc/ltsp/lts.conf and ltsp-client-setup read it on boot
11:00
<johnny>
pull it while in the initramfs rather
11:00
it should be stored in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/{chrootname}
11:01
just like on ubuntu
11:01
<polytan>
ok
11:01
<johnny>
along side the kernel
11:01
basically
11:03
hmm..
11:04* johnny wishes he could find firefox 3.0.5 beta rpm
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11:28
<jhutchins>
johnny: Mozilla doesn't release rpm's.
11:29
johnny: RPM distros don't distrubute betas.
11:29
<johnny>
sure.. but somebody may have packaged it up
11:29
in external repositories
11:29
it has a very important bugfix that assists in web development
11:30
finally firebug can inspect posted parameters that were sent
11:30
instead of doing a 2nd post
11:30
which may have different results
11:30
<jhutchins>
johnny: So build your own rpm.
11:30
<johnny>
if i knew anything about rpms i could :)
11:30
hehe
11:31
at that point.. i'd go with firefox 3.1 i guess
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12:29
<pasmen>
hi
12:29
i have a question regarding LTSP5 on Ubuntu 8.10
12:29
<Ahmuck>
hi pasmen
12:29
shoot
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12:29
<pasmen>
is there a way how to use just a rdesktop screen script and have access to local devices?
12:30
<Ahmuck>
local devices on the client ?
12:30
<pasmen>
yup
12:31
I have read that local devices rely on ldm, but didn't find any details
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13:14
<Ahmuck>
pasmen: have you tried edubuntu?
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13:33
<pasmen>
no I haven't tried that, I'm using Ubuntu 8.10 alternate CD to install LTSP
13:34
local devices work just fine with gnome session, but I'm using it to reach W2003 server, where users need their USB keys and so on
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13:43
<johnny>
pasmen, it seems like the folks who know such things, are not available right now.. try back after the weekend.. during usa/europe daylight hours
13:43
<alkisg>
pasmen: there is an rdesktop option (-r), to forward local ports, disks & devices... I don't know how well it works, see "man rdesktop" for details.
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13:43
<johnny>
or not :)
13:43
<alkisg>
johnny: bah... I've just tried it once 6 months ago!
13:43
Saw that it can be done, and never used it again! :)
13:43
<pasmen>
I know about the -r option
13:44
it works well as far as I can tell, tried it couple of times
13:44
<alkisg>
pasmen: have you also enabled local devices in lts.conf?
13:44
<johnny>
alkisg, that never needs to be done
13:44
<pasmen>
local devices are enabled by default, as said by the manual
13:44
<johnny>
it is on by default in all ltsp5
13:45
<pasmen>
anyway, I can redirect i.e. local USB key, in /var/run/drives
13:45
<alkisg>
johnny: ok, it's the swap that's not enabled by default, sorry...
13:45
<pasmen>
there gets created need directory, but it's empty
13:45
it gets populated only when using ldm session and accessing the directory from within Gnome
13:46
<alkisg>
pasmen: ok, there must be scripts / permissions / fuse groups etc for that, so do what johnny said: wait for after the weekend! :)
13:47
<johnny>
yeah.. if you use ldap/ad
13:47
make sure the users are in the primary group of their name
13:47
<pasmen>
thats all true :-)
13:47
<johnny>
but then again.. maybe that is only applicable for linux
13:47
<pasmen>
well
13:47
it does work using ldm
13:48
rdesktop -r option does work
13:48
the only bridge I would need to make is populating /var/run/drives/xxx with the local device content
13:48
whenever it gets plugged in
13:48
that's where I'm stucked
13:49
maybe it's the lack of insight into the process of how ldm works
13:50
I'm sure that if I knew how it works, I would be able to make necessary changes myself (I hope ;-)
13:52
I guess there would be a chance of getting it done using the combination of ldm autologin and ~/.xinitrc calling the rdesktop script
13:53
<alkisg>
Not ltsp related: could someone tell me how to backup the home dirs so that I can write them to DVDs? Is "tar -cvfz /tmp/home.tar.gz /home/" OK?
13:53
(with a sudo in front)
13:53
<nubae>
yep
13:53
<alkisg>
nubae: thank you very much!
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14:04
<Ahmuck>
alkisg: bacula
14:04
er
14:05
actually that is a question of mine as well. i assume one can backup /home and dump to a dvd if os needs restoration?
14:06
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: well, I suppose so, I can't see why not
14:06
<Ahmuck>
iirc, i tried that once with a distro and it complained alot about PAM
14:06
or something
14:06
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: maybe you tried to backup / instead of /home?
14:07
<Ahmuck>
hrm, maybe
14:07
<alkisg>
The few times I cloned /, I used a live CD so that the file system isn't used
14:16
<johnny>
you should use p
14:16
that's where you went wrong
14:16
cvpzf
14:16
it didn't keep your privs
14:17
nubae, alkisg Ahmuck .. DO NOT FORGET IT
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14:21
<jhutchins>
tar defaults to p/
14:21
.
14:21
If you're running with root priv's.
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14:34
<alkisg>
johnny, ty!
14:34
<pasmen>
Thanks for help, I'll try luck after the weekend :-)
14:34
bye
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14:35
<alkisg>
jhutchins: ok, now I got it (read the man page)...
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15:08
<johnny>
jhutchins, didn't know that actually
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19:55
<nothingman>
#edubuntu is rather silent, so maybe someone here can help me?
19:56
<vagrantc>
!question
19:56
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
19:57
<nothingman>
I installed edubuntu-server via apt on my laptop running (x)(k)ubuntu, and my /opt directory is empty. I set up DHCP correctly and the client (a laptop with no HD) gets ip but hangs on TFTP for the reason previously mentioned
19:58
<vagrantc>
probably need to run "sudo ltsp-build-client"
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20:01
<nothingman>
command not found
20:02
oh, fortunately ltsp-server is only 300+k
20:02
<vagrantc>
hmmm... i would think edutbuntu server would have a dependency on ltsp, but i guess not.
20:02
you probably want to install ltsp-server-standalone
20:02
<nothingman>
(on AT&T wireless in a hicktown w/ no 3g)
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20:06
<nothingman>
so now I won't want to run ltsp-build-client until I'm near WiFi, right?
20:07
<vagrantc>
you'll need network access, unless you've got an edubuntu CD ...
20:07
<nothingman>
ooh, I might...
20:07
oh, but not x64
20:08* nothingman is stupit
20:08* nothingman can't spell, either
20:08
<vagrantc>
well, you'll probably want to install an i386 version for the thin-clients anyways
20:08
unlessa all your thin clients are amd64...
20:08
<nothingman>
oh, huzzah!
20:08
good point
20:08
<vagrantc>
i'm not positive it would work with the CD ... but basically ...
20:09
ltsp-build-client --mirror file://path/to/mounted/cd --security-mirror none
20:09
something like that
20:09
oh, and --arch i386
20:10
i work on the debian implementation, which is similar, but sometimes there are differences to ubuntu
20:15
<nothingman>
only my optical's kicked it, I think
20:17
well, crap
20:17
so much for testing it this weekend
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20:17
<nothingman>
I have a server at one of my schools, though, and it works very well!
20:18
<alex_21>
Hi, My video flickers on my client as if it is a bunch of still frames
20:18
<nothingman>
but the other school doesn't have a powerful enough machine available for a server
20:18
<alex_21>
Like seconds between frames
20:18
<nothingman>
so I wanted to thank all those involved
20:18
(wherever you may be
20:18
)
20:19
<alex_21>
So you too have a server that isn't exactly powerful enough?
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20:33
<alex_21>
Like seconds between frames
20:33
Hi, My video flickers on my client as if it is a bunch of still frames
20:39
<nothingman>
alex_21: one of my schools doesn't have a machine available
20:40
so I haven't bothered
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20:40
<nothingman>
but I'm installing edubuntu on my laptop to use it as a server
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21:23
<alex_21>
Wow, sweet
21:24
Do you guys know the minimux I can get away with for a TC running Edubulntu
21:24
?
21:24
Ram that is
21:24
RAM!
21:24
Minimum amout of RAM needed for a TC running Edubuntu?
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21:34
<pmatulis_home>
ltsp on Ubuntu, Hardy or Intrepid?
21:34
<vagrantc>
!serversize
21:34
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "serversize" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
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21:44
<alex_21>
Hardy
21:46
And I am just wondering if my 288 MB machine will work
21:49
<nothingman>
alex_21: what processor?
21:50
<alex_21>
I have no clue
21:50
Vetvista 2200 from IBM. I was wondering if 32 MB is not enough and whether I should go all out and to 288 MB
21:51
The wiki says nothing about this if I remember correctly
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21:53
<nothingman>
well, from what I've seen they recommend 128MB * the number of terminals, if you're running thin clients (processes running on the server)
21:53
and that's beyond the base for the server itself
21:53
if they're all fat clients, you can get away with about 256MB
21:54
but that's pushing it
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21:54
<nothingman>
I have 768MB in mine, and it runs pretty well with 4 clients attached so far
21:54
but I'm going to make them all fat clients
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22:03
<Sarten-X>
how do you pick fat vs. thin clients?
22:04
<alex_21>
I mean for the clients, can they have 32 MB locally and work
22:04* Sarten-X dunno
22:05* Sarten-X is new to this whole thing
22:05
<alex_21>
Well, fat clients I think are pcs stripped down, and thin clients are special terminal machines, I think
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22:06
<alex_21>
I have a little experiance with this
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22:06
<alex_21>
So ask away if you will
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22:12
<Sarten-X>
well
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22:13
<Sarten-X>
I'm going off to set up donated computers in Africa
22:13
i've heard edubuntu + LTSP is good, but I've never played with it
22:14
<alex_21>
I am doing the same thing in Mexico, lol
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22:16
<alex_21>
So I can vouch for it under all but one circumstance. What is your situation?
22:17
Edubuntu and LTSP is great, particualarally 8.04 for low maintenance
22:17
<pmatulis_home>
alex_21: why hardy over intrepid?
22:18
<alex_21>
Run sudoo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade and sudo apt-get update like this in a shell script from time to time with Crontab and It will auto update the server. Then set it to Sudo Reboot every time after upgrade with crontab. It is pretty nice
22:18
<Sarten-X>
I'll be using donated stuff, but I'm not the one getting it to Africa, so I have no idea what hardware I'll end up with
22:19
heh
22:19
no internet connection, either
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22:19
<alex_21>
Intreped isn't stable yet for screen readers and other access software from what I hear, and also it is a lts support, so if you use the thing over seas it is better for maintenamce
22:20
Not even Dialup?
22:20
<Sarten-X>
not even dialup
22:21
<alex_21>
Then you will need to do some serious planning to make sure you have the latest screen readers/magnifiers/other acess software
22:21
<Sarten-X>
i'm not worried about that
22:21
<alex_21>
So have the best accessibility
22:22
What is it for?
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22:23
<Sarten-X>
it's for schools, but it's more important to get something working, rather than worry about things that'll only be used a very small percentage of the time
22:23
I leave on the 7th
22:23
<alex_21>
I'm sorry to say that nothing is more important that accessibility and including every student
22:25
<Sarten-X>
here, yes
22:25
in africa, not really
22:25
<alex_21>
All you need is the lates package for Orca, eSpeak, and one of the Speech recognition tools, as well as the slowkeys and slowmouse stuff, and all the dependancies of course
22:25* Sarten-X adds it to notes
22:26
<alex_21>
Look, I work with many people like that. You wouldn't believe how horribly off the challenged are, even worse than everyone else
22:27
I would say I'd join you, but my first two projects labs are already planned
22:27
<Sarten-X>
i realize that
22:27
I'll see what I can do
22:27
<alex_21>
I can help over the computer though if you need help
22:27
<Sarten-X>
harsh reality is, kids in africa with disabilities usually don't make it to the schools
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22:28
<alex_21>
Lol, I know how hard it can be even ain a developed nation, blind smiley, to get good computer support, and therefore do well
22:28
<Sarten-X>
yeah
22:28
<alex_21>
Not true, a lot, exspecially visually impaired ones, make it to university
22:28
In Africa
22:29
<Sarten-X>
don't get me wrong... I'm all for accessibility
22:29
<alex_21>
I won't say I am as bad off as people in countries like Africa though
22:29
<Sarten-X>
but I've already asked the other volunteers about it, and they tell me it's not a concern at all
22:29
<alex_21>
In your hands is the power to change the fact that students with disabilities won't make it into the schools
22:30
With the right support these kids can reach their full potential
22:31
It is not in the main interest of many volunteer groups, but you can make a big difference in a lot of lives by doing what most people don't spend time doing
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22:31
<alex_21>
I mean, even huge companies don't give a, ... about us with disabilities
22:32
I don't want to nag, but I will do what I can for you to make this happen
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22:32
<Sarten-X>
the problem isn't the school, though
22:32
er
22:32
not the services at the school
22:32
<alex_21>
Then what is it.
22:32
?
22:32
<Sarten-X>
the kids just don't go to school. period.
22:33
the schools I'm volunteering at are in rural Ghana. If kids can't get themselves to school, they just don't go.
22:34
<alex_21>
I know. All through history that was the problem. In Canada, until recently kids with disabilities were segrigated. In a lot of developing nature kids are kept home because they, ... they do't have the resrouces to support them
22:34
<Sarten-X>
something like 25% of the students there leave early to go work in the markets
22:35
there are other volunteers working on ways to help attendence, but there's been resistance to that from the community
22:35
<alex_21>
That is really sad. I feel like every lab I plan will be all for not. It is too hard
22:35
<Sarten-X>
nah
22:36
every bit of aid is good
22:36
<alex_21>
See this, if a student can learn, they may not be able to do phisical work because of a disability, but they can be seen as a great help to their comunity all the same
22:37
And my problem is that I am working out of every corner to make this labs stuff happen, but I don't have resources
22:37
<Sarten-X>
yep
22:37
<alex_21>
Sad Sobbing Smiley
22:37
<Sarten-X>
such is the life of a volunteer
22:38
<alex_21>
I know. I am frustrated that I can't find enough old machines to meet my needs
22:38
My labs project hads been delayed over a year now
22:39
And if something isn't done, I am sure it will take another year
22:39
<Sarten-X>
we're hoping that by getting computers into the schools, and a new library (a project recently done by other volunteers), it'll get the community more interested in the school's potential to help
22:41
all it takes there is a few of the community elders to give their blessing to a project, and the entire community will follow
22:43
<alex_21>
Exactly. In most third world countries, people with disabilities are scene as helpless. By changing that and realizing the full potential, that can all change, and we will have gotten rid of a big social block
22:43
<Sarten-X>
I agree
22:43
<alex_21>
It is sad to see this kind of stuff happen to people, when it isn't their fault
22:44
If you use Hardy, you will find the latest accessibility stuff pretty much there already except for speech regonition. I don't remember if slowkeys and slowmouse is included, but it may
22:45
<Sarten-X>
the problem I face is that disabled kids won't even make it to the computers in the first place
22:46
<alex_21>
I can't even remember what they are called, but Googleing Linux Accessibility will work to bring them up. If you are using GNome, make sure the tools you download are for gnome or if you are using KDE, KDE tools
22:47
<Sarten-X>
that annoys me to no end, but there's little I'll be able to do about it right now
22:47
<alex_21>
I know they aren't calld slowmouse and slowkeys
22:47
<Sarten-X>
yeah
22:47
I've used them before
22:47
<alex_21>
Well, that will take effort on all parts, but when you show people the lab, pointing out the accessibility and its implications will help a lot
22:48
<Sarten-X>
yeah
22:48
i'll try
22:48
<alex_21>
And making sure people know it is there will help
22:48
<Sarten-X>
I still don't know how feasible it will be
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22:48
<Sarten-X>
last I knew, the room for the computers wasn't even built yet
22:49
<alex_21>
That is the best you can do. Unfortuanately you can lead a hore to watter but you can't make it drink
22:49
That is the best you can do. Unfortunately you can lead a horse to watter but you can't make it drink
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22:50
<alex_21>
That is the sad truth
22:51
<Sarten-X>
indeed
22:51
I think what I'll actually end up doing is training several people to use & administer their installations
22:51
then send them updates every so often
22:52
<alex_21>
On another note, here is a trick. If you know what model of comp you will have for a server, install the OS here, and while you still have the net update it and install all needed components. Then afterwards, take it out and take the hdd with you
22:52
I mean install it on the same or similar computer here
22:53
That way when you leave, you will have a full blown hdd with all the stuff on it
22:53
And all you will need to do is plug it in when you get there
22:53
<Sarten-X>
I have no idea what hardware I'll have there
22:54
and I know the computers will all be slightly different, too
22:58
<alex_21>
That is unavoidable
22:58
<Sarten-X>
yep
23:00
<alex_21>
It was just a thought. Also, there is a tool for making a disk of all the packages installed to a Ubuntu/Edubuntu box, so if you istall a barebones install here, and then aply updates/add accessibility software, then make this disk, when you get to the place you are going, simply pop the disk in, add it as a repository, and vuoal, you can install all the updates. You can make cds and send them later too for future updates
23:00
It doesn't matter what kind of computer you install the barebones os onto, it will prbably still work
23:00
On the labs server
23:01
<Sarten-X>
yeah
23:01
that's what I'll do for the upgrades
23:03
<alex_21>
It is automated. You may want to do it before you leave so that all the new updates are installed before you while you are there
23:03
Just a sugestion
23:04
BTW: What organization do you work with?
23:05
<Sarten-X>
i'm going with Kids Worldwide
23:06
http://www.kidsworldwide.org
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23:07
<alex_21>
Neat. I am working independantly, which is really hard. Well, independant, with the VIPBC.org/AWEBSIGHT Group
23:07
http://www.vipbc.org/
23:08
http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi if you are on Windows
23:08
So, yeah, it is a very small, non-profet group
23:09
<Sarten-X>
nice
23:09
small is definitely good
23:14
<alex_21>
Yeah, too true
23:14
But we can't find enough old machines
23:14
Blind smiley
23:16
<Sarten-X>
heh
23:16
yeah
23:19
<alex_21>
Too true
23:20
I'm sure they are out ther, I just have no idea where to start looking for them
23:21
<Sarten-X>
universities, big companies, and recycling companies
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23:24
<stgraber>
yeah ...
23:25
oops :), /me wonders why he had that in his irssi window ...
23:25
<Sarten-X>
or if you're in the right kind of area for it, a newspaper ad asking for donations may help
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23:28* Sarten-X wanders offf
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23:29
<jhutchins>
alex_21: should be able to.
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23:30
<jhutchins>
alex_21: You might need to start looking at a stripped, optomized kernel.
23:32
<alex_21>
I have akernal for it, but I wasn't sure if 32 MB was enough. This box can take 288 MB or RAM max
23:35
The wiki article didn't say if the kernal needed 288 MB or if 32 MB or RAM was enough
23:37
What is the difference on the client side?
23:37
<alkisg>
alex_21: The wiki says the absolute minimum is 48MB (with no kernel modifications), and 128 MB is the proposed RAM.
23:39
<alex_21>
Ok, confused here. I got the kernal from the Netvista page of the wiki, so I think it may be optimized
23:39
<alkisg>
If you don't have enough RAM, NBD swapping will be automatically enabled for RAM <= 48 MB, and the TC will be *very* slow (= unusable).
23:39
alex_21: sorry, I thought you were talking about the ltsp page
23:39
<alex_21>
Oh, no problem
23:39
I should have been clearer
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23:44
<alex_21>
I don't recomend them the IBM Netvista 2200's to anyone
23:44
They are a pain if they don't have the latest firmware
23:56
Well thanks for all your help.
23:56
Good luck to all of you with your projects
23:56
Good night. Bani Bash
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