IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 February 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:17
<S_A>
Hi! What is MTB ?
00:17
some one is asking for MTB in thin client. Can anyone tell me what it is ?
00:17
<johnny>
huh?
00:20
<S_A>
???
00:20
is it some application ?
00:21
<Ryan52>
S_A, what's MTB?
00:22
<johnny>
we need more context S_A
00:23
Ryan52, he's asking us what it is :)
00:23
<Ryan52>
o.
00:23
<S_A>
Ryan52: i seems to be some application. and is refered as a requirement to me along with citrix and ekiga
00:23
:)
00:23
<johnny>
we don't know
00:23
it's not related to thin clients at all
00:23
or ltsp
00:23
you're probably going to have to ask google
00:24
err.. ask a search engine
00:27
<S_A>
I am already trying. what no result as of now. I will search. thanks
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00:58
<alkisg_work>
How can I backup /home to /homebackup (while booted from a live cd)? sudo rsync -av /home /homebackup destroys the owners...
00:59
Does it check for existing UIDs before the copy? Cause with a live cd, these users of course don't exist...
01:01
Will cp -a do?
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<Phille>
good morning
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07:58
<Remaille>
hi all
07:58
In my school network we have a win 2003 server with active directory for users authentification
07:59
do you have any goods links explaining how allow users to connect to thin clients with the same login/pass ?
07:59
I googled a lot but found too much information (and i am a newbie too)
08:00
I am a bit lost so... thanks
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08:07
<Gadi_eeepc>
Remaille: by default, WTS usually is set to allow 1 connection per user, which makes the session migrate with the user
08:07
go to Terminal Services Configuration
08:07
and right click on the connection
08:07
(or is it let click?)
08:08
you should see a config to set allow multiple connections to the same user
08:08
(i think)
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08:48
<jammcq>
good morning #ltsp
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08:57
<etyack>
jammcq: morning sunshine
08:58
<jammcq>
:)
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09:33
<rjune>
!j
09:33
<ltspbot>
rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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09:45
<ace_suares>
hi all
09:47
!seen ogra
09:47
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 21 hours, 53 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ogra> johnny, oh, do you know why ?
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09:48
<ace_suares>
!seen rjune
09:48
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: rjune was last seen in #ltsp 14 minutes and 54 seconds ago: <rjune> !j
09:48
<ace_suares>
rjune: hi, just one question, what's the status of local apps?
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09:50
<rjune>
no clue. I've not tracked it for a bit
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09:50
<ace_suares>
rjune thx maybe scott knows
09:50
<rjune>
I'm not an active participant at the moment. I just lurk and offer what help I can.
09:50
<ace_suares>
!sbalneav
09:50
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: Error: "sbalneav" is not a valid command.
09:50
<ace_suares>
oh sorry
09:51
<rjune>
heh
09:51
<ace_suares>
!seen sbalneav
09:51
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 21 hours, 59 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <sbalneav> it's the Brazillian LTSP channel here.
09:51
<ace_suares>
well he seems to be far far away :-0
09:51
<Ryan52>
I'll bet that if you ask the whole channel you might get an answer quicker...
09:52
:P
09:52
<ace_suares>
seen whole_channel
09:52
<ltsplogbot>
I don't know who whole_channel is.
09:52
<ace_suares>
hmm
09:52
:-)
09:52
hi all!
09:52
anyone know what the status of local apps is ?
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09:53
<Ryan52>
hehe. hi. I think they're fairly usable...haven't tried yet myself, tho.
09:55
<ace_suares>
did ogra just walk out of the channel just by hearing 'local apss' mentioned :-)
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10:16
<ace_suares>
hi ogra long time no see
10:16
ogra how far is local apss, esp firefox running on the TC ?
10:20
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ace_suares: local apps work.
10:20
<ace_suares>
CAN-o-SPAM_: cool!
10:24
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ace_saures: using Ubuntu?
10:24
<ace_suares>
CAN-o-SPAM_: yes
10:26
<Gadi>
ace_suares: best if you use stgraber's ppa
10:26
for the newest upstream
10:26
we have done a lot of work on local apps since intrepid's release
10:27
and stgraber has been maintaining intrepid pkgs whilst making jaunty ones
10:27
<ace_suares>
Hey Gadi, thx for the info
10:27
so probably in a couple of months local apps will rock
10:27
that is great news
10:27
<Gadi>
well, it aready rocks pretty nicely
10:27
:)
10:27
<ace_suares>
even better
10:27
<Gadi>
for most apps
10:27
and is transparent to the user
10:27
which is nice
10:28
<vagrantc>
that reminds me ... localapps assumes the same locale that LDM is using, not the selected locale
10:28
<ace_suares>
it just needs to work for FF and ugh Flash ... for the schools here.
10:28
<Gadi>
ace_suares: I think those are the first apps anyone tests ;)
10:28
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
heh
10:29
<Gadi>
CAN-o-SPAM_: I read ur blog the other day - you're a very good blogger
10:29
<ace_suares>
if they *ever* going to switch, see article on opensourcecuracao.com where the dutch govt refuses to pay for MS office licenses for our schools - interesting.
10:29
<Gadi>
:)
10:29
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Gadi: how did you find it out of curiosity? it's actually help me find other people who blog and believe it or not, i'm not the only one blogging about LTSP
10:29
*aside from warren & scotty
10:30
<Gadi>
I think I was bored and started poking around linkedin
10:30
<ace_suares>
hm can-o-spam in google doenst bring me to your blog... url ?
10:31
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ace_suares: http://alexcolcernian.wordpress.com
10:31
did google release Chrome for Linux? If so has anyone tried it w/ LTSP?
10:32
Gadi: i sent you an e-mail a couple minutes ago, and there is a good link in there you'll want to check out
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10:39
<Gadi>
CAN-o-SPAM_: thx - yeah Lew already told me about that yesterday
10:39
he's already trying to leverage it
10:39
:)
10:40
has anyone here done any xperf11 testing on their thin clients?
10:40
*x11perf
10:40
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i have?
10:41
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i think i ran it once when you mentioned it
10:41
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Gadi: i think we'll have to bring some Kensington security locks into the picture, haha
10:42
<Gadi>
vagrantc: as in once right now?
10:42
<vagrantc>
Gadi: no, a good long while ago.
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10:46
<Gadi>
ah
10:46
hehe
10:46* Gadi has been testing putimage a bit
10:46
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Gadi: what are you wondering about xperf
10:47* Gadi tries to put on his engineering hat and get real performance metrics
10:47
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
mhmm i c
10:47
<Gadi>
xperf11 -putimagexy50
10:47
for example
10:47
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
whats putimage?
10:47
besides the obvious
10:47
<Gadi>
will give much different results when run locally or over the network or thru a proxy, etc
10:48
x11perf has a million tests
10:48
for different x11 operations
10:48
putimage, I believe, tests just the speed at which the Xserver can put an image on the screen
10:49
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
hence correlation with java/flash/etc...
10:49
<Gadi>
sorta
10:49
in many respects, ldm sessions, even with DIRECTX can be slow
10:50
especially compared to non-X11 protocols
10:50
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
hmm ill mention to etyack, i know we run x11perf on any workstation that needs more than the standard testing
10:50
<Gadi>
I have been curious of late as to where the increased heaviness is introduced
10:50
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
right
10:50
<Gadi>
whether it is gtk, gnome, switches, etc
10:51
we all know X is "chatty"
10:51
but the "assumptions" we make about why things are slow
10:51
<vagrantc>
Gadi: how does LDM_DIRECTX compare with connections started through XDMCP ?
10:51
<Gadi>
tend to not help in engineering something faster
10:52
vagrantc: good one - from what I have seen (havent tested in a while) XDMCP may feel faster
10:52
one issue could be the ssh connection
10:52
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i agree with the word "assumptions"
10:52
<Gadi>
even though the video does not get tunneled,
10:52
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
what does that would make ssh a potential culprit?
10:53
<Gadi>
cant rule him out
10:53
:)
10:53
remember, the session is still a child of sshd
10:54
so, it still plays a role
10:54
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i thought you might have a little more for me there'
10:54
<Gadi>
:)
10:54
I could use more people testing more things
10:54
to weed out the real culprit
10:55
for example,
10:55
for one user in the office here,
10:55
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i wonder if all this cloud/virtualization and such will fuel changes in SSH?
10:55
<Gadi>
I turned metacity to "reduced resources"
10:55
that makes window movements wireframe, decreased animations, etc
10:55* vagrantc usually tests with icewm
10:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
aand ...
10:56
<Gadi>
doesnt seem to help much with the way things feel
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10:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i'm thinking this isn't a one-piece puzzle
10:57
<Gadi>
its not
10:57
<alkisg>
`ssh -Y localhost` and then `firefox` makes firefox needing 3-5 seconds to show the right-click menu.
10:57
<Gadi>
but collecting data points really helps
10:57
<alkisg>
There are a lot of things to investigate...
10:58
<Gadi>
indeed
10:59
one curiosity: does x11perf -putimagexy50 perform comparably on all thin clients (be they crap ones or awesome ones hardware wise)
11:00
<alkisg>
I imagine we can find some thin clients performing 100 times faster than others..
11:00
<Gadi>
we should probably come up with some tests that folks can do, put them on a wiki, and ask people to contribute results
11:00
alkisg: maybe
11:01
or, you may find that they are all the same
11:01
which would tell you something about where your bottlenecks are
11:01
problem is, we need to stop assuming and do real testing
11:02
<alkisg>
Nah, if my experience in programming a lot of putimage versions in assembly 15 years ago means anything, I think we'll even find greater differences
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11:02
<alkisg>
OK, Gadi you find the benchmarks, we contribute results :)
11:02
<Gadi>
:)
11:02* Gadi adds to his homework
11:11
<alkisg>
Gadi: it would be useful to also include a small cpu benchmark and a small network speed benchmark, to normalize the results.
11:12
<vagrantc>
would be good to write some scripts for this sort of thing
11:14
could write is as a session type, so you wouldn't be running extra cruft ... and an ldm rc.d hook to export some variables so the server-side scripts could log some client-side information...
11:15
although it would be useful to run with extra cruft, too
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11:50* vagrantc wonders what configuration is needed to get xrdp working
11:54
<vagrantc>
i installed it, set SCREEN_07=rdesktop ... but i just get an X cursor and then X dies and restarts
11:55
ah, looks like there is no default for RDP_SERVER ?
12:00
<nubae>
@g search xrdp
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12:00
<ltsplogbot>
17,700 Results | RPM Search xrdp-0.4.1-53.1.i586.rpm @ http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/11346523/com/xrdp-0.4.1-53.1.i586.rpm.html | RPM Search xrdp-0.4.1-70.1.x86_64.rpm @ http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/11346602/com/xrdp-0.4.1-70.1.x86_64.rpm.html | Debian -- Package Search Results -- x @ http://packages.debian.org/xrdp | SourceForge.net: xrdp-devel @
12:00
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=xrdp-devel
12:00
<nubae>
sorry, just making sure bot is up and running so its logging...
12:02
<Gadi>
vagrantc: it never did make sense to have a default
12:02
most folks were not connecting to the Linux server with rdesktop
12:02
:)
12:04
<vagrantc>
Gadi: all of the sudden it makes sense, at least to me :)
12:04
i got xrdp working
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12:04
<vagrantc>
though not totally consistantly...
12:04
<Gadi>
what do you think?
12:05
<vagrantc>
it logs in... what more is there?
12:05
about to test cyberorg's nomad patch
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12:07
<Gadi>
vagrantc: any performance difference?
12:07
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i didn't really do any performance testing
12:08
i just wanted to make sure it logged in at all
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12:33
<vagrantc>
so, the most noteable thing about using this LDM_NOMAD patch seems to be session resuming
12:34
that i've been able to see
12:34
localapps doesn't work
12:34
localdevs do work
12:34
sound doesn't work
12:35
<Gadi>
vagrantc: keep in mind xrdp != nomad
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12:36
<vagrantc>
Gadi: well, i know that ... but the effects i am able to observe using this
12:36
using LDM_NOMAD without an rdesktop/xrdp that supports nomad
12:37
patch works, though i'm still not sure on the ~/.ltspvars file ...
12:38
<Gadi>
yeah, I was unsure about that one too
12:38
neat that session resume works
12:39
weird that local apps does not
12:39
<vagrantc>
it's using Xvnc, so maybe that's messing with it somehow
12:39
<Gadi>
sound prolly borks because it requires that .ltspvars thing
12:39
<vagrantc>
right
12:40
<Gadi>
I assume sound works if you set PULSE_SERVER
12:40* vagrantc will test
12:40
<Gadi>
Xvnc must not be passing the Xatom
12:41
thats sad
12:41
<vagrantc>
i suspect the resume would get into issues with setting variables if you log in from a different machine the second time
12:42
<Gadi>
ah, actually its not Xvnc that is the issue, it is sending back RDP only
12:42
I think nomad's rdp has X11 extensions
12:42
so, it can pass the Xatoms on a separate rdp channel
12:42
<vagrantc>
sound works when sourcing ~/.ltspvars ... though it was a bit choppier
12:43
<Gadi>
choppier? weird
12:43
it should be a straight pulseaudio play at that point
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12:44
<vagrantc>
heh. sound continues to play with the session in the background.
12:44
i.e. after ctrl-alt-backspace
12:44
probably would mess with future connections
12:44
<Gadi>
nice
12:44
:)
12:45
someone should suggest to them a kill -STOP when there are no connected viewers
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12:46
<vagrantc>
well, there are some issues, but i think the patch is worth merging.
12:46
<Gadi>
I would find out about the .ltspvars thing first
12:46
<vagrantc>
maye those issues are resolved in a real nomad environment
12:46
<Gadi>
especially since we just went to lengths to purge the code from writing to ~/
12:46
<vagrantc>
i could merge without the .ltspvars
12:47
it would also probably require exporting the sound variables...
12:48
<Gadi>
yeah - unfortunately, xrdp does not seem to support rdesktop's redirection capabilities
12:48
if it did, they wouldnt need these workarounds
12:49
kinda irks me when OSS tries to copy commercial software and doesnt
12:49
:)
12:49
its like the kids that can't trace a picture
12:49
<vagrantc>
heh
12:49
<rjune>
LOL
12:49
what is it you're worked up over?
12:50
<vagrantc>
Gadi: do they refuse to, or simply haven't gotten around to it?
12:50
<Gadi>
they refuse
12:50
<vagrantc>
ah.
12:50
<Gadi>
I forget the reasoning
12:50
but, I have seen it a couple of times
12:50
<vagrantc>
that's stupid
12:50
<Gadi>
another example is gnome and the different nautilus views
12:51
Windows explorer has like 5 or 6 views that people have become accustomed to
12:51
nautlius only recently adds one and it is this rather useless "compact"
12:51
they are obviously in a position to copy the work of others
12:52
clearly attempting to to a degree
12:52
and yet failing to be able to trace the damn picture
12:52
:)
12:52
maybe they have a good reason, maybe not
12:54
<vagrantc>
hopefully it's not the "our users are too stupid to handle multiple views" argument
12:54* Gadi shrugs
12:54
<Gadi>
I think the problem is that Linux developers dont use computers like normal people
12:55
I know, because I don't
12:55
but if you know you don't, you should be smart enough to listen to the complaints of those who do
12:55
<markit>
little problem... I've chrooted in /opt/ltsp/i386/ and followed manual instrucionts, but since my "host" OS is 64 bit, and guest is 32, I've the feeling that things have mixed up and compromised
12:55
what would have been the syntax to update for my architecture?
12:55
<vagrantc>
Gadi: right, like i wouldn't expect others to use tritium as a window manager.
12:56
and i would *never* recommend vim.
12:56
<markit>
I got a : starting NBD client process: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.26-1-amd64/modules.dep: No such file or directory
12:56
<Gadi>
markit: sudo ltsp-update-image --arch=i386
12:56
vagrantc: exactly
12:56
<markit>
Gadi: uh, ltsp manual tells about using chroot, and apt-get update / upgrade
12:56
<vagrantc>
"works for me, but it might not work for you"
12:56
<markit>
Gadi: is the latest manual outdated,or we are talking about different things?
12:57
<Gadi>
markit: different things
12:57
when did you get the above error?
12:57
<markit>
I mounted the /proc as described
12:58
but first I got error about impossibility about wrigint log (is /dev/pst mounted?)
12:59
then
12:59
Invoking swapoff on NBD devices...
12:59
Disconnecting ...
12:59
ERROR: Module nbd does not exist in /proc/modules
12:59
<Gadi>
this was when you were in the chroot?
12:59
as in:
12:59
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
13:00
<markit>
exactly
13:00
well, I was already root
13:01
so I just # chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
13:01
then apt-get update
13:01
apt-get upgrade
13:01
and the problems above :)
13:01
<Gadi>
ok, are you in the chroot now?
13:02
<vagrantc>
export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
13:02
before chrooting
13:02
or after, i guess.
13:02
<markit>
Gadi: yes
13:03
<Gadi>
do what vagrantc says
13:03
and apt-get update again
13:03
and apt-get upgrade
13:03
and before saying yes to the upgrade, paste the pkgs it plans to upgrade
13:03
<markit>
no one
13:03
<Gadi>
vagrantc: what code uses LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS?
13:04
markit: nothing needs upgrading?
13:04
<markit>
no, after the previous upgrade
13:04japerry has quit IRC
13:04
<Gadi>
ok
13:04
<markit>
the problem is that previous upgrade only partially succeed
13:04
<Gadi>
well, you may be all right
13:04
<vagrantc>
Gadi: our start-stop-daemon wrapper
13:04
<markit>
and I've the scaring 64bit kernel message
13:05
<vagrantc>
Gadi: which prevents daemons from getting started in the chroot on the server
13:05
<Gadi>
that message is most likely because some package was looking at your running kernel to determine how to upgrade
13:05
do this:
13:05
in the chroot:
13:05
dpkg -l|grep ^ii
13:06
oops
13:06
I mean:
13:06etyack has joined #ltsp
13:06
<Gadi>
dpkg -l |grep -v ^ii
13:06
<markit>
empty
13:06
<Gadi>
good
13:06
all the packages are installed
13:06
try unmounting /proc
13:06
umount /proc
13:07staffencasa has quit IRC
13:07
<markit>
inside chroot? proc device is busy
13:07
<Gadi>
ok, do:
13:07
lsof /proc
13:09
<markit>
http://rafb.net/p/3QJc6m20.html
13:09
<Gadi>
that was inside the chroot, right?
13:09
<markit>
right
13:10
<Gadi>
try: /etc/init.d/acpid stop
13:10
(in the chroot)
13:10staffencasa has joined #ltsp
13:10
<markit>
No such file or directory
13:11
btw, I've debian, where have to be lts.conf file?
13:11
I've it only in one place, the /opt/tsp/i386/etc
13:11
somewhere is told to have it also in tftp root dir
13:11
<Gadi>
thats fine - for NFS
13:11
for NFS it can be there
13:11
<markit>
how can I tell if is using nfs or the new way?
13:12
<Gadi>
debian still uses NFS by default
13:12
so, unless you changed it
13:12
<markit>
even if I'm using debian sid?
13:12
<Gadi>
yup
13:13
<markit>
ok :) let's try to reboot the client, in any case, I can erase and re-setup ltsp
13:13
is just a test environment
13:13
Gadi: I've seen that debian has updated ltsp-server package and I've installed it
13:14
<Gadi>
ok
13:14
<markit>
there is some command to enter to have it "working"
13:14
<Gadi>
be careful when blowing away your chroot, as it sounds like you still have /proc mounted
13:14alkisg has joined #ltsp
13:14
<markit>
good advice
13:14
I will reboot
13:15
<johnny>
or just unmount /proc..
13:15
<Gadi>
updating the ltsp-server won't have much effect on the client, unless you rerun ltsp-build-client
13:15
<johnny>
no need to reboot..
13:18
<markit>
Gadi: so for debian, do I have to ltsp-update-image --arch=i386 every time I change lts.conf?
13:18
<Gadi>
no, debian by default is NFS
13:18
so you are changing the live filesystem
13:18* markit scratches his head
13:19
<Gadi>
ltsp-update-image is a tool for updating an NBD image
13:19
<markit>
from the manual, I've read that having NBD and lst.conf in /tftp boot is a plus since you don't have to rebuild image
13:19
<Gadi>
debian, using NFS, does not require you to update an NBD image
13:20
<markit>
from ltsp manual
13:20
By putting lts.conf in the TFTP area, this means you can make changes to the file immediately, and simply reboot the terminal, without recompiling the image.
13:20
so seems that is a feature of nbd, not of nfs
13:20
is listed as one of the advantages of ndb over nfs
13:21
<Gadi>
markit: NBD's advantage over NFS is one of speed
13:21
but, one adv of NFS over NBD is that the chroot is "live" on the client
13:21
so any change you make to /opt/ltsp/i386 on dowwn are automatically reflected on the client
13:21
*down
13:22
<markit>
Gadi: so documentation must be fixed
13:22
<Gadi>
since NBD does not work that way, you put lts.conf in the tftp directory so you need not reroll the image when making changes to lts.conf
13:22
only when making changes to the chroot
13:23* vagrantc is glad gadi can keep the rationale straigh for NBD vs. NFS ...
13:23
<vagrantc>
so many people make really bad advice to debian users
13:24
<Gadi>
:)
13:24
<markit>
7.1 of the manual, I understood exactly the opposite of what you explained
13:24
is it wrong, or I misunderstood it?
13:25
<vagrantc>
markit: URL for the manual?
13:25
<markit>
vagrantc: from the topic about upstream documentation
13:25
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.pdf
13:25
brb, I have to feed my children (5 minutes)
13:26
I will read what you write when back :)
13:26
<alkisg>
Wow, 5 minutes only? You're fast... :)
13:26
(or your kids are hungry...)
13:27
<Gadi>
lol
13:27
LTSP from the Ubuntu perspective
13:27
:D
13:27
<alkisg>
Other distro users don't need manuals, they're experienced. :P :D
13:27
<Gadi>
markit: it seems the upstream docs are, in places, Ubuntu docs
13:28
<vagrantc>
markit: that should really say "some distros are using NBD" and "if you're using NBD, lts.conf is in the tftp dir" ... or something like that.
13:29
the ltsp upstream documentation was basically part of the edubuntu handbook, rewritten for ltsp upstream. though clearly there are some parts that need more updating.
13:29
<markit>
alkisg: food just to be warmed, wife prepared it
13:30
vagrantc: in the manual is stated that there are differences in NFS and NDB, but seems that the "no rebuild" advantage is for NBD, not NFS
13:30
so being ubuntu or not, is wrong or not?
13:30
Gadi says is wrong
13:30
<vagrantc>
markit: i don't get that
13:31
markit: 7.1 doesn't talk about the advantage of NBD vs. NFS, it talks about where lts.conf is placed.
13:31
<markit>
I understood: NBD needs lts.conf in /tftp, and having it in /tftp means you don't have to rebuild
13:31
<vagrantc>
markit: it's talking about not having to rebuild the image every time you modify lts.conf, which would be necessary with NBD if you didn't put lts.conf outside of the chroot.
13:32
<nubae>
hmmm
13:32
<markit>
and is NOT necessary for nfs? no need to put in /tftp too to have the same advantage?
13:32
(microwave has finished, brb)
13:32
<nubae>
depends on if u want it to be hackable or fast loading
13:32
<vagrantc>
markit: it's actually one of the main problems with NBD, is that you actually have to rebuild the image when you make changes to the chroot, and it works around that limitation for lts.conf by putting them in the tftp dir.
13:33
<johnny>
but we still use lts.conf in the tftproot if nfs is used.. for consistancy..
13:33
<nubae>
if u build once and dont touch again, use nbd, otherwiswe use nfs
13:33
<vagrantc>
markit: for NFS systems, lts.conf lives in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf (on debian i386, at least).
13:33
johnny: do not.
13:33
johnny: debian's NFS implementation doesn't use tftp for lts.conf at all.
13:34
<nubae>
other way round is true though
13:34
its in both locations for nbd
13:34etyack has quit IRC
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13:35
<ogra>
vagrantc, you are aware that recent xorg doesnt support ctrl-alt-bkspc anymore ?
13:36
<Gadi>
really?
13:36
<vagrantc>
ogra: nope
13:36
<ogra>
yep
13:36
<Gadi>
how recent?
13:36
<ogra>
upstream dropped it completely
13:36* vagrantc believes ogra
13:36* Gadi believes him too
13:36
<johnny>
for ubutnu, fedora, and gentoo. .we do
13:36
<ogra>
ubuntu patched it back in but laves it off by default
13:36* Gadi always believed in ogra
13:37
<johnny>
vagrantc, you're the odd one out :)
13:37
<rjune>
*sigh*
13:37
why? I loved ctrl-alt-bkspc
13:37
<ogra>
you need to manually enable it via a comdline tool, we should take that into account in jaunty <-- stgraber
13:37
<rjune>
it was better then ctrl-alt-del
13:37
<vagrantc>
johnny: perhaps.
13:37
<ogra>
johnny, he just lives a bit behind the times :P
13:38
at least in ubutu its not completely gone ...
13:38* vagrantc doesn't see any reason to maintain it in tftp other than having to support hacks that vagrantc never liked in the first place
13:38
<ogra>
but needs extra feature support and an lts.conf option i guess
13:40
<johnny>
vagrantc, consistancy is worth it tho
13:40* ogra notices that he stepped into an ongoing conversation ... sorry for interrupting, i just read vagrantc's mail about nomad
13:40
<johnny>
it's ok ogra, we still love ya
13:40
<ogra>
phew
13:40
<Gadi>
and believe in you
13:40
<ogra>
i was worried already :)
13:41
<Gadi>
like the fairies that roam the Black Forest
13:41
<ogra>
haha
13:42cdealer has left #ltsp
13:42
<rjune>
I thought the fairies roamed san francisco
13:43
<ogra>
these are imported ones
13:47
<Gadi>
no room to roam san francisco
13:47
the best you can get is a prance
13:52bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:52* Lns wonders why, then, Ubuntu had its last summit in SF ;)
13:53
<ogra>
someone had to import the fairies ...
13:53* CAN-o-SPAM_ wonders what the correlation between LTSP and fairies is
13:53
<Lns>
maybe the new ltsp logo should be tinkerbell?
13:54
<cliebow>
or andre the giant
13:54
<Lns>
wow, that's the exact opposite...
13:54
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
better get ur designs goin i think we got about 10 submissions yesterday
13:54
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM_, you never opened the cases of you TC eh ?
13:54
<cliebow>
but shade in the summer
13:54
<ogra>
lots of fairies locked in the black thingies that are soldered on the board ...
13:54
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ogra: hm? oh ya ... i try not to, pixie dust all over
13:55
<ogra>
you can see them coming out with magic smoke if you shorten the contacts
13:55
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ogra: what i would really like is to say that Ubuntu certifies my pixie dust and fairies
13:55
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM_: /me likes the one Joshua Higgins Submitted: 1/13/09
13:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Lns: theres more to post check later today or tomorrow
13:56
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM_, well, i'm forwarding your request constantly ....
13:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
what do u think the hold up is?
13:56
<ogra>
no idea
13:56
they tell me they will contact you
13:56
each time :/
13:57
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
you might appreciate this story: i contacted Novell the other day, 3 operators for the whole company, none of them knew what SuSE Enterprise was
13:57
<ogra>
haha
13:57* CAN-o-SPAM_ was severly puzzled by this
13:57
<Lns>
"You mean Microsoft Linux v1.0?"
13:57
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ya, i think its called Licrosoft
13:58
<Lns>
balmmix
13:58
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
you lost me on that one
13:58
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM_: steve ballmer
13:58
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ah
13:58
<Lns>
err...balmmer? whatever. LinChair
13:59
<vagrantc>
johnny: LTSP is the odd one out if you want consistancy, i'm using initramfs-tools's NFS support out of the box.
14:01
<markit>
ok, thanks a lot, I reboot, rebuild ltsp from scratch, and experiment a little further
14:01
see you later, for new problems that will come ;)
14:02markit has quit IRC
14:04
<vagrantc>
also, anyone familiar with anthroposophy can tell you it's not faeries trapped in computers, but gnomes.
14:05
<johnny>
also bugs..
14:06
<epsas>
hmm
14:17
<alkisg>
nubae: Δοκιμή
14:17
<rjune>
CAN-o-SPAM_, when's the contest end?
14:18
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
rjune: Feb 27th
14:18
<rjune>
thanks
14:19etyack has quit IRC
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14:21
<rjune>
ugh, funky make problem.
14:22
if I do make once. it does a few things then fails, no rule to build sys.o
14:22
if I do make again, it builds sys.o and continues on
14:23
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM_: Can I submit this as a logo? http://logicalnetworking.net/other/ballmerchairthrow.jpg
14:24
(I'm thinking not)
14:26
<rjune>
LOL
14:27
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
hah
14:27
does it fit the rules?
14:27
<Lns>
no
14:28
but, you know, it sure does speak the truth!
14:28
I think that's enough for a win
14:29
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
youve got my voye
14:30
<laserdrill>
Hi all. I am running LTSP5 Ubuntu 8.04, AMD X2 64 with 1GB RAM and 2 thin clients. I am attempting to connect to the LTS from another ubuntu workstation using the terminal server client "tsclient". I starts up ok and gives me the desktop. However, whenerver I load an application (OOO writer for example) it terminates and attempts to restart. It does this every single time as soon as I start an app. This is part of the message it gives: X error of failed
14:30
or Window parameter) Major opcode of failed request: 70(X_PolyFillRectangle).... Has anyone had this kind of problem before? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
14:31
Johnny, how are you?
14:32
<johnny>
busy
14:33
<laserdrill>
johnny: ok, I know the feeling
14:34
johnny: as you might notice, I am having a few challenges with my Terminals Server. Keeps me up at nights.
14:48spectra has quit IRC
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14:56
<Gadi>
laserdrill: is that a VNC connection you're making?
14:58
<laserdrill>
Gadi: no, its a terminal server client via xnest
15:00
<johnny>
don't use xnest
15:00etyack has joined #ltsp
15:00
<johnny>
if you want a real terminal server client use vmware or virtualbox
15:00
<Gadi>
but what proptocol is it using?
15:00
is it connecting thru XDMCP?
15:00
VNC?
15:00
RDP?
15:00
<laserdrill>
Gadi: I connect using "tsclient" and selecting XDMCP as the protocol. This works when xnest is installed
15:01
<Gadi>
ah, ok
15:01
that's important
15:01
<laserdrill>
Gadi: Ok
15:01
<Gadi>
where do you get that error?
15:01
is it in the session?
15:02
<laserdrill>
Gadi: on the workstation desktop after the terminal session crashes.
15:02
<Gadi>
definitely sounds like an Xnest limitation
15:04
<laserdrill>
Gadi: it probably is, but I have used it before on a Fedora Core LTS (K12LTSP I think) with no problems a few years ago. Can't figure what improvment might have caused this.
15:04
<johnny>
lots of things
15:05
i'd suggest xephyr over xnest
15:05
xephyr supports damage, unlike xnest
15:05
<laserdrill>
johnny: Thanks. Would I uninstall xnest then install xephyr?
15:05
<johnny>
but ultimately.. the only real way test your clients and have all the features working is to use vmware
15:06
or virtualbox
15:06
you will get the most similiar results that way
15:06krishna_ has quit IRC
15:06
<johnny>
laserdrill, depends on if tsclient needs to be changed.. it might not already know how to spawn xephyr
15:06
you'll have to look
15:06
you shouldn't have to uninstall xnest in any case tho
15:07
<laserdrill>
johnny: I use virtualbox (mainly for playing with Windows and Solaris) and it works will. The thin clients also work well on the LTS, but my regular workstations can't run the LTS desktop, which would help a lot as we do some training here
15:08
Johnny:Ok, will try to install xephyr on the workstation now
15:08
<johnny>
i doubt it will just work tho
15:10
<laserdrill>
johnny: I was afraid you'd say that !
15:12
johnny: here is what I am trying to do. I am trying to allow a person whose home directory is on the terminal server to log into the LTS and get a full desktop, while running other apps on the workstation.
15:12
<johnny>
vbox is best for that
15:13
<laserdrill>
This seemed to be the "perfect" solution. Indidentally, I cannot understand how Linux has such good support for connecting to Windows Terminal Servers but not linux Terminal Servers.
15:14cyberorg has joined #ltsp
15:14
<laserdrill>
johnny: you mean boot vbox from the LTS? I tried it and got an error but never paid much attention to it as I was more interested in doing this. Let me try that again.
15:17
johnny: This is what I get: PXE -E53: no boot filename received ... Then it leaves pxe boot and boots the os
15:18
Is there a better way to do this?
15:21
<alkisg>
laserdrill: NAT or host networking?
15:21
<vagrantc>
laserdrill: you'll have to configure networking so that vbox can see your real DHCP server ... you're probably using NAT
15:22
<johnny>
i think the new virtualbox can do it
15:22
<alkisg>
(NAT can also work, just needs more tinkering...)
15:22
<johnny>
2.1.0
15:22
<alkisg>
johnny: with nat? even the older ones could do it..
15:22
<laserdrill>
alkisg / Johnny/ vagrantc: yes, Vbox is set to NAT
15:23
<johnny>
you don't have to mention my name every time
15:23
in fact.. please don't
15:23
<laserdrill>
johnny: yes, 2.1.0
15:23
<alkisg>
laserdrill: the easier way, like vagrantc said, is to use host networking. If you insist on NAT, you'll have to make a few adjustments
15:24
<laserdrill>
I don't might changing the network setting. Thanks for the info
15:24
<alkisg>
i.e. create a TFTP directory under .Virtualbox, put an hostname.pxe file there, link to /var/lib/tftpboot etc
15:24
<laserdrill>
I'll try it right now
15:25
i'll try changing the network setting first
15:26
I developed the habit of using the name from chat rooms where there is a lot of conversing on different subjects. Its usually the only way for users to keep their sanity.
15:28
<johnny>
but it is stealing mine :)
15:29* vagrantc waits to see johnny crack under pressure
15:29* johnny pulls lightly on vagrantc's hair
15:29
<vagrantc>
hmm... so after finally testing this nomad patch stuff, i've still got mixed feelings over it
15:30* vagrantc tosses johnny with a hip-throw
15:30
<johnny>
you're mean
15:30
<vagrantc>
do onto others...
15:30* vagrantc likes being thrown
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15:41
<laserdrill>
Thanks guys. Vxbox seems to have worked. Took a log time to boot but seems to work fine.
15:49Gadi has left #ltsp
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16:28
<sepski>
how would i debug login issues ? lenny server. client boots and i get ldmno matter what session i try it just restarts ldm
16:29makghosh has joined #ltsp
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16:36
<vagrantc>
sepski: look at the user's ~/.xsession file
16:36
sepski: er, ~/.xession-errors
16:37
sepski: and /var/log/ldm.log on the thin client
16:37
sepski: also, what versions?
16:37
!ver
16:37
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' ldm | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
16:38
<vagrantc>
sepski: also check /var/log/auth.log on the server ...
16:42makghosh has quit IRC
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16:44
<sepski>
vagrantc, whatever is in lennyt
16:45
<vagrantc>
sepski: well, i get that all the time only to find out it wasn't true :)
16:45
<PerlStalker>
Can someone point me at docs that show how to tell a LTSP thin client to look at different server for nbdroot?
16:45
<vagrantc>
sepski: so i do like to be sure.
16:47Phille has quit IRC
16:47
<sepski>
there is no .xsession file for the user.
16:47
<vagrantc>
sepski: i meant ~/.xsession-errors, sorry
16:48
<johnny>
PerlStalker iirc, nbdroot=server:port on the pxelinux.cfg/default
16:48
<PerlStalker>
Shiny. Thanks
16:51
<sepski>
ii ltsp-server /client and client-core is 5.1.10-2
16:58
.xsession-errors is all about can't open display ''
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17:20
<vagrantc>
sepski: what's in your lts.conf ? /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
17:20
!pastebot
17:20
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
17:23
<ltsppbot>
Someone pasted "# This is the default lts.conf" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/248
17:23
<sepski>
http://pastebot.ltsp.org/248
17:23
the default + the server line
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17:26
<sepski>
umm :s sshd_config had X11Forwarding no
17:30
<vagrantc>
sepski: that's unusual...
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17:30
<vagrantc>
sepski: that's been the default since etch for sure ...
17:30
i mean X11Forwarding yes
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17:32
<vagrantc>
sepski: make sure /etc/X11/Xsession exists and is executable
17:33
<sepski>
it does.
17:33
i just rebooted the client and now the kde into wizard started
17:34
enabled X11Forward in ssh
17:36
<vagrantc>
sepski: defaulting to "X11Forwarding yes" has been default since septermber 2005
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17:37
<sepski>
vagrantc, this server started as a potato..
17:37
:)
17:37
<vagrantc>
heh. that'll do it, then.
17:37
<sepski>
a tad laggy tho.
17:39
<talntid>
Does anyone here have a good way to monitor all the thin clients on a network, using VNC?
17:39
i'v got VNC installed on all the thin clients, but havn't found a program that allows me to view them all at once in a preview...
17:39
<sepski>
it's about 35km away, using gigabit fiberoptics 1 single client
17:40
<vagrantc>
well, at 35km, that it works at all is pretty impressive :)
17:40
<sepski>
load of 10 with famd on top :s
17:41
i placed my home server at the computer room at work. it was too noisy :)
17:41
perhaps i remove all computers at home and only use thin clients now
17:42
<talntid>
are the thin clients remoted into the server at work?
17:42
<sepski>
the thin client boot from my own server that just happens to be freeloading at the "datacenter" at work
17:43
<talntid>
right.
17:43
how is that working? How is it getting its boot image?
17:43
you don't have to answer me obviously.. purely voluntary.
17:43
<sepski>
it's also my dhcp server :)
17:43
regular tftp
17:44
<talntid>
i have a LTSP server here at my office... and 15 miles away, I have my house... if I can put a thin client at my house that would rock.
17:44
<sepski>
my home lan streches down to the datacenter via a vlan
17:44
<jammcq>
sepski: are the thin clients also at work? or are they on the other end of the 35km ?
17:44
<sepski>
thin client is here at home. server is at work 35km away but it's the same subnet.
17:44
it's my home server, it's just not at home
17:44
<talntid>
hmm... yeah
17:44
<sepski>
vlan down to work
17:44
<talntid>
i want to try that. :P
17:45
i have VPN pppoe to my work
17:45
<vagrantc>
sepski: do you have to set up a DHCP proxy or some such?
17:45
<sepski>
vagrantc, pure layer 2 ethernet the whole way
17:45
a vlan
17:46
but it does work with dhcp proxy as well tho. i have tested that in a earlier setup
17:46
<vagrantc>
nice
17:47
<talntid>
hmm, i'm going to have to try that.
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17:49
<sepski_>
turned off that old computer.. what a relief.
17:49
guess i should replacesome fans
17:49
and boot it using gpxe and iscsi
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17:51
<sepski>
;'
17:53
<vagrantc>
well, i finally got around to testing the ltspfs local mount stuff ... and basically it behaves very badly with cdroms ... it doesn't register the locally mounted cdrom removal from the thin-client, but does register the removal on the ltsp server. upon insertion, it doesn't register in either location.
17:53
<sepski>
any tricks to lower the latency ? i have more then enough bandwith
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17:55
<vagrantc>
correction, the server-side cd mount does eventually register, but it seems to take longer than usual.
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18:01
<sepski>
not so sure this is working good enough. to be usable. the lag is quite noticeable at times.
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18:08
<sepski>
must be something with my TK, server can ping my printer, and dreambox in >0 ms, but pinging the TK is often 30 or 40 ish ms
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