IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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05:34
<VectorX>
where can i find a doc what will show how to create different types of images ie, if i got users who are graphics people and programers, so one image with gimp and another with eclipse or something and load depending on who logged on
06:02
so how do i control what apps which users see ?
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06:33
<VectorX>
or is this not possible
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06:37
<slicknick5181>
Hello I am having trouble getting an intel macbook to boot to edubuntu 11.10 ltsp
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07:08
<VectorX>
where can i find a doc what will show how to create different types of images ie, if i got users who are graphics people and programers, so one image with gimp and another with eclipse or something and load depending on who logged on, so how do i control what apps which users see ?
07:19
<alkisg>
VectorX: are you talking about thin clients or fat clients?
07:19
<VectorX>
thin
07:20
<alkisg>
Localapps or not?
07:20
Do you have many application servers?
07:20
<VectorX>
just 1
07:20
1 server, 2 thin clients atm
07:20
<alkisg>
Do you want to actually have different programs installed per client group, or you just don't want them in the menus?
07:21
<VectorX>
so one i want to login as graphic designers group and have gimp, other progrermmer and eclipse no gimp
07:21
<alkisg>
You can modify the menus easily. But if you want gimp not to exist in the hard disk that the programmer sees, then that's a different story
07:21
<VectorX>
and another group can have both
07:22
yeah i dont want it to exist
07:22
clients dont have hdd's
07:22
<alkisg>
Yes, I understand, but let me try to explain you, I don't think that's what you want
07:22
So, one way to do that would be with 3 application servers
07:22
1 for programmers, 1 for designers, 1 for both
07:23
You only have 1 server, so you'd need to do 3 different installations on it
07:23
<VectorX>
ic, so one server would always serve what ever apps loaded on it
07:23
<alkisg>
Yes, and you'd waste resources, shared ram etc
07:23
<VectorX>
alkisg is there a doc on this by any chance ?
07:23
<alkisg>
On the other hand, if you just use the edubuntu menu editor, you can create arbitrary groups which only see the apps you want
07:24
The apps will still exist in the hard disk, but not in the menus
07:24
<VectorX>
ic
07:24
<alkisg>
And RAM will be shared, and maintainance will be much easier, etc
07:24
To have multiple application servers etc have a look at ltsp-cluster
07:24
<VectorX>
ic
07:25
well atleast i know where to look now
07:25
but how can you have mutiple servers on one server
07:25
beside the obvious of having many servers
07:25
coz you said "3 different installations on it"
07:26
<alkisg>
One way is to use some virtualization technique, like vbox
07:26
Of course you'll 3 times more RAM
07:26
<VectorX>
yeah that sux really bad, somehow it ends up swapping
07:26
atleat on win7 havent tried on linux
07:27
<alkisg>
With how much RAM
07:27
?
07:27
And, how many clients are you planning to have?
07:27
And, how much RAM do your clients have? maybe they're good enough for localapps or fat clients...
07:28
<VectorX>
well clients got no hdd, min 256, server 16gb
07:28
<alkisg>
Nah with 256 they're not good enough to run gimp locally... that would make multiple images much easier
07:29
What is the reason you want multiple images, instead of just hiding the menus?
07:29
I mean, if a programmer really needs gimp, he can just download and run it...
07:30
<VectorX>
i just wanted an ideal situation, worked in a win environment and you only get access to what you need to do your job, i dont want some jackass coming to me and telling me they can run some app using cli
07:30
if you know what i mean
07:32
well atleat i think i understand the problem a bit more now, for which group there should be a server to manager their apps
07:33
oh the other prob i was having was, i got ubuntu 64, but had to run the arch i386, when the clients loaded there were no apps
07:33
whats the fix for that, so when the client loads, it looks all normal with the latest ubuntu dash loading etc
07:34
<alkisg>
" i dont want some jackass coming to me and telling me they can run some app using cli" ==> as I said, they won't even need a command line, just a local installation of the program
07:35
<VectorX>
:)
07:35
<alkisg>
When you say "there were no apps", can you post a screenshot?
07:35
<VectorX>
let me see if i could
07:36
give me a sec
07:38
actually doesnt seem like i can right now, i deleted the 64 system and installed 386 to see if i was doing something wrong
07:38
basically i only see like a file menu
07:38
and about 5 others
07:38
no apps show up
07:39
<alkisg>
So with i386 everything's working fine?
07:39
<VectorX>
yeah
07:39
<alkisg>
Which amd64 ubuntu version did you install? 11.10?
07:39
<VectorX>
yeah
07:39
<alkisg>
Maybe some problem with the graphics driver
07:40
A screenshot would be helpful
07:40
<VectorX>
i can probably try but it will take some time, coz it starts downloaded files
07:40
im on a slow connection\
07:41
but ill do it now, so i can show you, got 64 installed in a vm, and running ltsp-build-client --arch i386 now
07:41
<alkisg>
Don't you already have an i386 chroot?
07:41
You can just copy it...
07:42
From your i386 server, to your amd64 vm
07:42
<VectorX>
but thats on another vm
07:42
im getting the actual server only tomorrow
07:42
<alkisg>
OK
07:42
<VectorX>
so testing on a similar machine inside a vm
07:43
well atleast that is good to know that i can copy the dir over
07:43
well i just ran it this way, perhaps it a better testing environment
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08:56
<VectorX>
alkisg ok this is wiered, just tried it and it worked, i wonder if the fact that the vm had only 8gb hdd caused a problem b4
08:56
<alkisg>
(09:39:56 πμ) alkisg: Maybe some problem with the graphics driver
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08:58
<VectorX>
well nothing has changed otherwise
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08:59
<VectorX>
also is there a tute to setup so both 386 and 64 systems can get the proper image
08:59
beside the fact that it might just be better to load everything in i386
08:59
on the client side that is
09:00
<alkisg>
VectorX: the tutorials you're asking are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP, give it a look
09:00
You don't need 2 client images though
09:00
From what you're saying, you want 2 server images, but I wouldn't go that way
09:01
<VectorX>
how would you go then
09:03
<alkisg>
You didn't tell me how many clients yet
09:04
Also, "min RAM 256" ==> what's the max RAM? Maybe you could use some localapps or fat clients, which would offload your server
09:05
<VectorX>
max 512, about 15 clients
09:06
basically programmers and graphics designers, + mix of both, so stuff like eclipse, gimp, server is i7 2600k, 16gb 1600ram, 120gb ssd primary, + 1tb 2x*raid mirror storage
09:06
cput overclocked to 4.5 ghz
09:07
<alkisg>
For graphics designers, I'd go for fat clients, because gimp etc is slow over lan
09:07
But you don't have enough RAM for that
09:07
(on the clients)
09:08
So anyway, since all of them are going to be thin clients, I'd just have 3 groups
09:08
1 group with no restrictions (==both kids of apps)
09:08
1 group for developers, and 1 for programmers
09:08
All groups served by a single server, a single server image, and a single client image
09:09
I'd use edubuntu menu editor to configure the menus based on the user groups
09:09
And, if you really want to disable running apps from the command line, I'd look for other means, non-ltsp related
09:09
<VectorX>
k
09:09
<alkisg>
But I wouldn't bother, anyone can download an app and run it
09:09
<VectorX>
ic
09:09
once i figure this out, im gonna write some proper tutes on it
09:10
<alkisg>
There are plenty of tutorials for what you want
09:10
I.e. a plain ltsp setup, with just custom menus :)
09:10
There are also tutorials for hard cases, look the wiki
09:11
<VectorX>
hmm, perhaps i missed something ill check again
09:11
sorry if i am asking a lot of dumb sounding questions, im just new to this and trying to come up with something fast to get people to invest in it
09:12
if i cant show that this works like in the next few days, thell just buy a whole bunch of windows computers and that will be the end of the story
09:12
<alkisg>
You did manage to get the clients to boot with ltsp, right?
09:12
<VectorX>
yeah
09:13
<alkisg>
That, and LDM_DIRECTX=True, and a simple use of edubuntu-menu-editor, end of story
09:13
You should be able to do that in a couple of hours
09:13
<VectorX>
ill look at the menu editor thing, maybe come back tomorrow if i cant get it up
09:13
<alkisg>
I don't think your ideas about multiple server images etc will help... but do the opposite
09:14
You just want a simple ltsp setup
09:14
<VectorX>
ok
09:14
oh before i forget, if i install gig cards on all the clients would that make anything faster or would things be the same ?
09:15
they dont have roms unfortunately
09:15
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
09:15
If you have that problem, then your network is 10 times slower that it would be with gigabit on the clients
09:15
If you don't have that problem, then no, upgrading the clients to gigabit won't help much
09:16
<VectorX>
good info
09:16
<alkisg>
Also, if you'll be buying clients, buy good enough to be ltsp fat clients (still without hard disks), so that they can run gimp etc locally
09:17
That will be much better for the designers than running gimp over LAN
09:17
And finally corel has just released a graphics suite for linux, maybe the photoshop-oriented designers will prefer to buy and use that
09:19
<VectorX>
cool, ill check it out, so..... how much RAM are you suggesting, i am guessing that is what you are saying
09:19
coz i could prob get the clients for like 70 to 80 $us
09:21
<alkisg>
I prefer core 2 duo with 2 gb ram
09:21
<VectorX>
oh, thats like 160
09:21
and thats just the cpu
09:21
<alkisg>
You don't need a good server in that case... any old pc will do
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09:22
<alkisg>
!fatclients
09:22
<ltsp`>
alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
09:24
<VectorX>
ok i guess my idea was fat clients needed and hdd so i didnt read about it, ill check those articles out
09:24
<alkisg>
With fat clients, everything runs as fast as if they were using local hard disks
09:25
So if you're not satisfied with the gimp performance over lan, maybe that's a solution for you
09:25
<VectorX>
well thats why i got a really good server, but lets see, ill get a machine with your specs and test it out
09:26
<alkisg>
Yup what I'm saying is that I would invest the money to good clients, not to a good server
09:26
(for labs needing multimedia)
09:38
<VectorX>
yeah, thanks man, bit of reading ahead but atleast i know which way to go, ill check it out and come back
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10:09
<markit>
hi ppl :)
10:10
alkisg: hi, your suggestion to use 32 bit pae also for the server, and -c when entering chroot, is really time saving for Fat clients chroot updates, thanks
10:10
<alkisg>
Hi markit.
10:10
markit: epoptes has some problems with a certificate that expires 1 month after the installation, an update will be out soon
10:11
We'll ping you for the translation, if you want to update it
10:11
<markit>
I've to deploy my first FAT installation this afternoon, and as usual I'm terribly late with the setup :)
10:11
<alkisg>
Also, the groups feature is ready
10:11
<markit>
alkisg: yep, please ping me for the translation
10:11
I do watch the repository often, but better be notified by you
10:12
hate having a new release with incomplete translation
10:12
<alkisg>
I uploaded a test version in epoptes-proposed ppa, if you want to test
10:12
Hehe, me too
10:12
<markit>
btw, epoptes has been included in WiilDOS 1.8 recently released
10:12
(an italian distribution tailored for "smart board" but not nonly)
10:12
it replaces iTalc :)
10:12
<alkisg>
Hehe, cool! But do tell them about the certificate problem
10:12
I'll put a page about it in the wiki
10:13
That makes old epoptes installations (< 0.4) stop working after a month
10:13
<markit>
alkisg: unfortunatly I'm not in the condition to test epoptes for some days, but I will as soon as possible
10:13
ok, I'll write asap to the distro creator
10:16
(email to the list with a copy and paste of this chat, ok?)
10:17
<alkisg>
Better wait until I write the wiki page
10:17
So you'll only have to give him a link
10:17
I'll do that tonight
10:17
<knipwim>
alkisg: i've made a working example of our discussions yesterday
10:18
https://code.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/plugin-redesign
10:18
<markit>
ok, hope not to forget about it
10:18
<alkisg>
knipwim: cool! I'll check it out in a while, I'm testing epoptes right now...
10:19
<knipwim>
alkisg: going to add some comments in the pad regarding some design decisions
10:19
<markit>
btw, installing this program in FAT chroot I've a dbus error, anything to worry about?
10:19
Configurazione di vlc-nox (1.1.9-1ubuntu1.3)...
10:19
process 13615: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory
10:20
<knipwim>
also, posting the pad adress to the dev mailing list so the other devs can participate as well
10:20
<markit>
ltsp-chroot -a i386 -p -d -c
10:20
knipwim: is there a page that explains what is your project about?
10:21
<knipwim>
yes
10:21
<markit>
(or can you give me just a brief idea?)
10:21
<knipwim>
the dbus issue btw, you have to do a dbus-uuidgen --ensure
10:21
to create the /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
10:22
<markit>
only once?
10:22
<knipwim>
yes
10:22
<markit>
is it documented somewhere? I've not fuond in ltsp fat page
10:22
<knipwim>
if it's in the chroot, do it when installing
10:24
and for the project page: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/eeM3b5X9OJ
10:24
<markit>
knipwim: thanks
10:25
alkisg: I've an error while installing epoptes-client in chroot
10:25
<alkisg>
What error?
10:25
<markit>
but probably because I'm installing from my script and not with your wiki instructions
10:25
connect: Connection refused
10:25
connect:errno=111
10:25
epoptes-client ERROR: Failed to fetch certificate from localhost:789
10:25
<alkisg>
knipwim: you can create named pads by just visiting a url
10:25
E.g. pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ltsp-plugins-system
10:25
<knipwim>
nice :)
10:26
<alkisg>
markit: is epoptes running on the server?
10:26
<knipwim>
this pad-thing is horribly slow though
10:26
<alkisg>
If not, then that's why the connection is refused
10:26
knipwim: it seems like this server is having a hard time the last few days
10:26
<markit>
yep, at the moment I'm in chroot, will check asap
10:27
<alkisg>
knipwim: I think the official ubuntu site also got pad support.. maybe we could create one for "committers to ltsp upstream"
10:27
<knipwim>
alkisg: ok, the project page is now at pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ltsp-plugins-system
10:27
<alkisg>
Cool
10:28
<markit>
and no, epoptes was not running
10:29
should it start automatically at bootup? maybe I've to re-read the wiki, doing installations after many days of "other stuff" is really a problem
10:29
<alkisg>
Yes it should start automatically
10:29
<markit>
(you don't remember what you have done so far)
10:30
mmmm
10:30
ps -ax | grep epopt should show it?
10:31
in epoptes.1.log I've the last shutdown
10:31
and epoptes.log is empty
10:31
better reboot :)
10:33
<alkisg>
sudo service epoptes start, if you want to manually start it
10:34
<markit>
great, server replies to ssh login, but screen is black
10:35
I've a bad feeling...
10:35
regarding epopts, lots of rerrors at start
10:35
but maybe are related to the "black screen problem"
10:35
let me pastebin
10:36
<alkisg>
It's probably related to the certificate problem I've been telling you :)
10:36
You need to regenerate the certificate and transfer it to your chroot, because it's expired
10:36
The default openssl options generate a certificate that expires after 1 month
10:37
So all epoptes installations older than 1 month are broken :(
10:37
<markit>
ok, better remove epoptes now and reinstall next week
10:37
<alkisg>
The update is going to fix that, it'll regenerate a certificate automatically
10:37
Sure
10:38
<markit>
alkisg: but also, I suppose
10:38
there is a problem if you specify a group that does not exist
10:38
I've set /default/eppoptes
10:38
to use "insegnanti" (teachers)
10:38
that I've not yet created
10:38
<alkisg>
The socket will try to use the group that doesn't exist
10:38
So the daemon will fail to start
10:38
So, don't do that :)
10:39
<markit>
http://pastebin.com/kpx9Qr4n
10:39
hehehe, is it a bug? ;P
10:39
<alkisg>
No
10:39
<markit>
yes, missing the message "you idiot"
10:39
<alkisg>
A warning to the user would be nice, but it's not a bug
10:39
<markit>
;P
10:39
<alkisg>
Hehe
10:39
<markit>
to be serious, yep, a message in the log will help
10:40
<alkisg>
There's a message by python there, isn't it?
10:40
About access denied or something...
10:40
<markit>
let me check the log
10:40
# cat /var/log/epoptes.log
10:41
is just because I've started manually
10:41
that I know
10:41
btw, the grup was "insegnante" but I typed "insegnanti"
10:42
let's reboot and see if now login appears, in addition to epoptes server to start
10:42
YES
10:43
alkisg: so epoptes not starting has also bad consequences
10:43
<alkisg>
?
10:43
<markit>
at least, is what I suppose with this brief test
10:43
better try again?
10:43
with epoptes "broken", server did not show login
10:43
<alkisg>
Do you mean that the black screen on your server was caused by epoptes?
10:43
<markit>
fixing the group solved
10:43
let me try again breaking it again
10:44
<alkisg>
If that happens, I'd file a bug against kde :D
10:44
<markit>
hahaha, I know the typical situation of 10years old bugs ping ponging
10:45
ok, epoptes is innocent
10:46
and I've no idea why did not worked before
10:46
alkisg happy, markit worried
10:46
<alkisg>
I'd hope so, we tried real hard to give epoptes good manners and make him innocent
10:46
Nah it's linux that happens :D
10:47
Race conditions with X and startup scripts... common issue
10:48
<markit>
really scaring for teachers
10:48
and really embarassing when you do a demo
10:49
btw dbus-uuidgen --ensure suggested by knipwim solved the error, better me add in ltsp fat wiki page, or is something should be done by intallation script and is so a bug?
10:50
<alkisg>
I don't know the issue, I haven't looked into it
10:51
Will putting the same uuid to all fat clients cause problems?
10:53
<markit>
I've no idea about what we are talking about, unfortunatly
10:54
just had that message with vlc-nox and tried the solution of knipwim
10:54
so installation is now ok, but don't know about runtime problems, sigh
10:54
better remove that file?
10:54
<alkisg>
(12:50:50 μμ) alkisg: I don't know the issue, I haven't looked into it
10:57
<markit>
btw, I've a problem with vlc, if you watch a dvd or a video in general, and you pause it, and then restart, audio is out of sync with images
10:57
really I feel in the middle of a minefield, lol
10:57
(not ltsp related)
10:57
(is kubuntu on smart board pc)
11:00
dbus-uuidgen man page warnes about having the same uuiid with the different kernel running
11:01
your house will fire, you will loose your job, and monkeys will eat your pbx
11:01
knipwim: ping
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11:11
<knipwim>
markit: :) hmm, the monkey part is new apparantly
11:11
<markit>
knipwim: they grabbed it from Asterisk, I suppose ;P
11:12
<knipwim>
markit: yeah, i was reading the man page as well
11:12
better generate the machine id when booting the client
11:13
especially when running the chroots as a vm
11:15
<markit>
knipwim: so hope fat setup will do automatically
11:15
when fat client runs
11:15
(boots, sorry)
11:17
<knipwim>
on gentoo, the machine id is generated in the init script
11:19
don't know on your distro, or if dbus is initialized at your fat client boot
11:25
<markit>
btw, fat client chroot has really been generated without regarding of language setup
11:26
also packages language related (i.e. myspell-it) are ignored
11:26
kubuntu 11.04 here
11:37
mmm seems a mixed situation, some have been installed, other not, keyboard si to "us" instead of "it". Thanks dpkg and grep I think I've fixed the situation
11:46
<alkisg>
markit: you're supposed to put those in the ltsp-build-client command line, or configuration file
11:46
If it's not mentioned in the fatclients wiki page, please put them there
11:46
language-pack-el language-pack-en
11:46
language-pack-gnome-el language-pack-gnome-en
11:46
language-pack-kde-el language-pack-kde-en
11:46
language-support-el language-support-en
11:46
openoffice.org-l10n-el openoffice.org-help-el openoffice.org-hyphenation
11:46
<markit>
alkisg: so one single ID is ok in fat root?
11:46
ah, sorry
11:47
<alkisg>
Those are what I have for greek
11:47
<markit>
ok
11:47
take note and will add tonight to the wiki, hope
11:47
<alkisg>
Put at least the english ones in the wiki configuration file, and mention adding the users' locale specific
11:48
Also, I'm using doc/sch-scripts/examples/ltsp-build-client.conf:LOCALE="el_GR.UTF-8"
11:48
To force the greek locale
11:49
That's why I would prefer a "normal" installation procedure for ltsp chroots, either text-based or GUI-based, and not all those ltsp-build-client* options...
11:49
<markit>
but I love be able to rub by my script
11:49
<alkisg>
Even the alternate cd or the debian installer ask all those locale questions on installation
11:50
<markit>
wouldn't be simpler use "server" setups?
11:50
when I install the server, it asks for the language and installs all the related stuff
11:50
chroot should simply grab the language from the server and "do it right", no?
11:51
wondering why libreoffice has no hyphenation packages :(
11:51
<alkisg>
They moved to myspell
11:52
<markit>
so just with myspell-it I'm fine?
11:52
<alkisg>
I think so... I only tested 12.04 briefly (otherwise I'm at 10.04)
11:52
<markit>
I'll have a look later , thanks a lot
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13:54
<muppis>
Clean 32bit oneiric client with nvidia hangs while loading graphics.
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17:23
<fiberglasscivic1>
Hello all. I'm looking for help building a client with Linux Mint
17:26
<alkisg>
!ask
17:26
<ltsp`>
alkisg: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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18:26
<bendos>
Is LTSP working with fedora 16 and gnome shell?
18:35
<alkisg>
I don't think many people here use recent versions of fedora and ltsp, you might want to try the fedora mailing lists for that... k12linux? dunno
18:35
k12ltsp, whats the name
18:36
<bendos>
I suppose I don't mind switching away from gnome shell if another window manager is easier to work with
18:37
<alkisg>
LTSP was unmaintained in fedora for some years
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18:37
<alkisg>
Recently warren started working on it again
18:37
<bendos>
SPICE doesn't really seem stable enough for my to deploy in my environment quite yet
18:37
<alkisg>
Then, even more recently, I see that he hasn't done any commits in the trunk
18:37
So I don't know if he's still maintaining it or not
18:37
<bendos>
I'd have to move to deb I suppose?
18:37
<alkisg>
debian and ubuntu are well supported, yes
18:38
But it's possible that ltsp is running on fedora 15 or something... not many people here talk about it though, so I'm not sure
18:38
<bendos>
I'm trying to figure out how much processesing power I'll actually need on my clients, you have any frame of reference?
18:38
<alkisg>
The docs (see the channel topic) have some basic formulas
18:39
<bendos>
Thanks
18:39
<alkisg>
It all depends on what your clients will work on, though
18:39
<bendos>
You mean workload wise?
18:39
<alkisg>
E.g. developing on gedit is much different than watching youtube
18:39
Workload, network bandwidth, multimedia etc
18:40
<bendos>
I suppose I should read the docs a bit more
18:43
ltsp isn't really targeting the same use cases as spice is it?
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20:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc, stgraber: tomorrow we'll upload the new epoptes version... if you got some time in the next days to put it in the archives, it'll be nice, as the certificate problem has broken all installations older than a month
20:44
<stgraber>
alkisg: sure, poke me on IRC once it shows up in "rmadison -u debian epoptes" and I'll sync it into Ubuntu
20:45
<alkisg>
Thanks :)
20:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: should i test the existing trunk? are there major changes pending?
20:45
<stgraber>
alkisg: btw, you may have noticed that the only problem the Technical Board had with Edubuntu's application for LTS status was the vnc4 dependency we inherit from epoptes
20:45
alkisg: any plan to use a supported vnc client?
20:46
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no major changes, just a couple of small bug fixes
20:46
stgraber: unfortunately vinagre reverse connections are broken,
20:46
...did remmina get in the default installation?
20:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so if i test trunk today, tomorrow should be a breeze?
20:47
<alkisg>
The problem with remmina is that it doesn't support multiple reverse connections, so we'd have to invoke it on different ports
20:47
vagrantc: yup
20:47
<stgraber>
alkisg: I don't think it did yet but it may still happen
20:47
alkisg: can you have epoptes work with both remmina and xvnc4viewer and just use whichever is installed?
20:47
<alkisg>
stgraber: so with the current bugs/feature requests not fixed yet, we can't use either vinagre or remmina with some reasonable code
20:48
<stgraber>
alkisg: this way if remmina gets moved to main, it'll just use that (assuming we change the dependency to remmina-vnc | xvnc4viewer)
20:48
alkisg: hmm, ok...
20:48
<alkisg>
The problem is that remmina doesn't listen for multiple reverse connections on the same port
20:48
The developer said he'd look into it, but I don't think he's fixed it yet
20:49
So we'd have to manage multiple remmina instances, one for each client, and if some client doesn't connect for a reason, we'd have to use timeouts to close the remmina instance, and it gets very complicated
20:50
We could easily support vinagre, as we did in the past, but its reverse connections were completely broken the last time I checked
20:50
They broke sometime in the last year, I don't think they're fixed yet
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20:51
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, I just had a quick look at remmina's git and nothing changed over the last 3-4 months, so it doesn't look good for it moving to main or for your bug to be fixed
20:51
<alkisg>
I'll check vinagre in precise, to see if reverse connections work again
20:51
<stgraber>
alkisg: can you maybe retry vinagre's reverse connections on 12.04 (we now have 3.3.3-0ubuntu1) and if they don't work, point me to the bug report? I may be able to put some pressure to get that fixed
20:51
<alkisg>
OK, ty, will do that tomorrow (kinda late here :()
20:51
<stgraber>
sure :)
20:52
I'd really like to avoid having to maintain both a vnc client and a vnc server for 5 years ;)
20:52
Just x11vnc should be fine as we did in the past (iTalc used it with an in-code copy + patches)
20:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and then i'll have to test vinagre on debian again?
20:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think we'd better leave that as another upload
20:53
(vinagre)
20:53
Because of the certificate problem, it's kinda pressing to have a release soon
20:53
<vagrantc>
indeed.
20:54
<alkisg>
And I think we'd also need to use dconf to enable reverse connections, so it won't be too quickly implemented
20:54
(as I'd like to support older versions that use gconf too)
20:57
<stgraber>
alkisg: for vinagre, if reverse connections work, you could probably just change the dependency to "xvnc4viewer || vinagre (>=3.33~)"
20:57
well, the other way around obviously :)
20:58
<alkisg>
Ah, and ignore old vinagre versions, nice
20:58
<vagrantc>
and add a bunch of code to support both
20:58
<stgraber>
right
20:58
<alkisg>
stgraber: i think the remmina git is now hosted in freerdp, right?
20:58
<stgraber>
alkisg: ah, could be. I checked the one on sourceforge so that may explain why it looked outdated.
21:00
alkisg: yeah https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina looks a lot better
21:00
<alkisg>
I wonder if Ubuntu pulls from that, though
21:00
<stgraber>
though the vnc plugin still wasn't touched recently (same as the one on sourceforge)
21:00
<alkisg>
Ah
21:00
OK, I'll only check vinagre
21:01
<stgraber>
alkisg: https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina/commits/master/remmina-plugins/vnc/remminapluginvnc.c
21:01
<alkisg>
In fact let me reboot to precise... brb
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21:10
<alkisg>
stgraber: yup reverse connections work now
21:10
vagrantc: wanna wait until tommorow for the testing then?
21:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't have as much time tomorrow as i do today
21:11
<stgraber>
alkisg: awesome! one less scary package to maintain :)
21:11
<alkisg>
OK let's leave vinagre for a later upload then... stgraber do we have time (in the precise cycle) for a second upload later on?
21:11
It'll be smaller, so easier to test
21:16
<stgraber>
alkisg: sure, just try to do it in the next 2 weeks so that still leaves us some time before feature freeze
21:16
<alkisg>
Cool, I'll do it tomorrow, I hope vagrantc can test+upload the new version with vinagre before then
21:17
So tomorrow I'll upload two versions, one ==current trunk + a few fixes, and another == with vinagre support
21:17
<stgraber>
cool
21:18* stgraber really needs to put some time aside for LTSP ... need to update to current trunk and try to get ldm in sync with Debian (finally)
21:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc, when vinagre support gets there, do you prefer xvnc4viewer | vinagre, or vinagre | xvnc4viewer?
21:18
stgraber: we don't mind about the order in edubuntu, since vinagre is already pulled in, right?
21:18
<stgraber>
alkisg: right, the order shouldn't matter for Ubuntu
21:19
<alkisg>
So e.g. xvnc4viewer | vinagre will make it lighter for kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu etc
21:19
<stgraber>
right
21:19
<alkisg>
Nice
21:19
<stgraber>
if they prefer to have vinagre (so that it's covered by the LTS), they'll just need to explicitly seed vinagre
21:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'd prefer the smaller dependency be the first, unless it's really ugly or otherwise undesireable
21:20
<alkisg>
We all agree then, settled :)
21:21
<vagrantc>
i've also got to explore updating LTSP to trunk...
21:21
i did a few test runs ... i think it's pretty broken in testing right now.
21:22
<stgraber>
yeah, that was also my impression ... that and I need to poke at my gtk3 port of ldm
21:23
at least I know that gtk2 will still be part of the LTS so it's not as critical as I thought it'd be though still would be nice to have the port done
21:24
current state is "starts and lets you login" but it's horribly ugly (no theme and no wallpaper)
21:24* vagrantc wonders about gtk2 in debian
21:25
<stgraber>
I think it's still around in Debian because of the huge list of reverse dependencies, a transition to gtk3 is a huge pain because you may end up having to rewrite half of the code to use the new API
21:25
especially for things that were ported from gtk1 to gtk2 and so depend on already half deprecated gtk2 code...
21:29
<alkisg>
'night all :)
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