IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 31 May 2011   (all times are UTC)

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01:06
<fossala>
How is audio using ltsp for the clients?
01:07
I just want to weigh everything up before a buy some thinclients.
01:08
<Hyperbyte>
fossala, why don't you just try LTSP with a normal desktop computer?
01:08
<alkisg>
The client hardware usually doesn't matter for audio (assuming that the card is supported by the linux kernel)
01:09
The sound "travels" with pulseaudio on the local network
01:09
<fossala>
Good. I will purchase a couple of thin clients for testing tommorow.
01:09
<Hyperbyte>
You could test with regular desktop PC's you know, if you configure them to do a netboot. :)
01:09
<alkisg>
Or even with virtualbox :)
01:10
<fossala>
*facepalm*
01:10
Didn't think about that.
01:10
<Hyperbyte>
You could run an Edubuntu live DVD (they can create live LTSP servers)
01:10
And configure some other clients as netboot
01:11
Then you have an LTSP environment to test with, without the need to install anything
01:11
<fossala>
My server doesn't arive till Thursday. Will the 11.04 iso work?
01:11
<Hyperbyte>
I run 11.04 currently, works fine with LTSP as far I can gather. :)
01:12
<fossala>
In the long term I will be looking into using debian. It's the only linux I know.
01:12
I normaly use OpenBSD.
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01:13
<Hyperbyte>
I'm a long-time RedHat/Fedora user myself. Ubuntu's not difficult to get into though, especially not since it has a great community and especially for LTSP some great online resources.
01:13* Hyperbyte points at alkisg
01:14
<Hyperbyte>
If you want to run live LTSP you'll need the Edubuntu disk by the way, I think.
01:14
<alkisg>
Either debian or ubuntu are fine for ltsp. Can't comment on other distros as I haven't tried them
01:14
<fossala>
Yeah I will try it with the Edubuntu live disk.
01:14
Should I down clock my cpu to 800mhz (the speed of the thin clients)?
01:14
Or will it not make to much difference?
01:16
<alkisg>
To test how a thin client would behave? No it wouldn't make much difference
01:17
The network speed is much more significant than the thin client cpu, usually
01:18
<fossala>
The clients I'm looking at only support 10/100 but my server and switch are both gigabit.
01:19
I just hope 10/100 is good enough.
01:19
<alkisg>
Then verify that you're not affected by the flow control problem: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
01:19
100mbps is OK for each client, but not for the overall network
01:19
So if you're not affected by the flow control problem, you'll be fine
01:19
If you're buying new clients, I'd suggest gigabit
01:20
<fossala>
There too expensive.
01:20
<Hyperbyte>
Really?
01:20
What's your budget, per thin-client?
01:20
<fossala>
01:20
ish
01:20
<Hyperbyte>
That's.... pounds?
01:20
<alkisg>
Which one are you currently looking at?
01:20
<fossala>
It's only a home network.
01:21
wyse v90l
01:21
01:21
The thing is I want/need dual monitor support
01:22
<alkisg>
How much ram do those have?
01:22
1 gb?
01:22
<fossala>
512mb
01:22
and 800mhz eden c7 cpu
01:22
<alkisg>
Hm. Ok, I guess you'll end up using localapps with them
01:23
<fossala>
What would I be looking at needing for not having local apps?
01:23
<alkisg>
Your distro specs
01:23
E.g. ubuntu says "1 gb ram"
01:23
Don't know what debian recommends, I guess something similar
01:24
Ah, I didn't express myself right
01:24
<fossala>
I'm only using openbox for the wife and kids. And tiling window manager for myself.
01:24
<alkisg>
< 512 mb ram ==> only good as thin clients with no localapps
01:24
512 => can do localapps
01:24
>= 1 gb => can do thin, localapps, or fat
01:25
Your choice of course, what I said was a "guess" on how you'll end up using them
01:25
<fossala>
I would need local apps for the wife (firefox/flash)
01:26
<alkisg>
512 is enough for firefox+flash as a localapp, np
01:27
<fossala>
01:27
<Hyperbyte>
Dual monitor can be tricky by the way
01:27
<fossala>
How/why?
01:27
<Hyperbyte>
I've had numerous problems with it so far...
01:28
Well, the VGA output of my thin clients is blurry
01:28
<fossala>
Well my desktop has dual monitors aswell so I will test it.
01:28
<Hyperbyte>
I'm not sure yet if it's a configuration problem, driver problem or a problem with the actual thin clients
01:29
<muppis>
For my duals, only issue has been ldm screen. It sits in center.
01:30
<Hyperbyte>
My duals work fine when I run them from a desktop PC with an Nvidia card
01:30
Since I got actual thin clients it's been problematic.
01:31
<muppis>
I got nvidia too. I just don't trust any other brands anymore.
01:31
<Hyperbyte>
Well, the LTSP Term 1720 has intel graphics onboard
01:32
<alkisg>
My nvidia 8600gt got burned (overheated) and I then saw many many others having that problem - so I switched to intels :)
01:32
<fossala>
I can upgrade the v90l ram to 1GB if needed.
01:32
<alkisg>
But not 8xx intels, those are problematic
01:33
<fossala>
I use ati x600-xt. Fastest gpu that has full support on OpenBSD.
01:33
<muppis>
alkisg, how got it overheated? So far running good, even it is refurbished.
01:34
<alkisg>
Just normal use
01:34
<muppis>
Funny. Maybe I'm feeling lucky.
01:36
I purchased it from my friend who resoldered it in regular kitchen oven over year ago. :)
01:38
<alkisg>
Hehe I tried that too but then I moved it too quickly and the chips on it moved 1 cm to the side :D
01:39
<muppis>
:D
01:39
<alkisg>
For 1 month I got it working with the hair drier pistol
01:39
Then oven, then trash :-/
01:40
<muppis>
Shame.
01:46
<fossala>
01:48
<muppis>
Haven't solved my sound muting problem in my HTPC. During boot, there comes Invalid card number -error, could that be some hint to start looking for solution?
01:49
Sound is muted and set to unamplified by default, no matter from user, but it works fine after unmute and setting it to 100%.
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03:02
<andygraybeal>
morrninigning
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03:44
<Hyperbyte>
Morning. :)
03:45
<andygraybeal>
hi Hyperbyte!!!
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04:04
<Gnoze5>
yellow
04:14
<andygraybeal>
hi hi
04:14
orangey orange!!! grapity grape!!! lemony lemon!!!
04:14
omg !! too much lsd.................. my teeth taste like purple...
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04:18
<Merwin>
Hi everybody, I just installed LTSP Cluster, and my first thin client is working. I would liek to add firefox as a localapp, but I can't firgure how to do this.
04:18
I tried ltsp-localapps firefox in console, but nothin happen
04:18
<andygraybeal>
have you thought about having fat clients instead of running localapps?
04:19
<Merwin>
Yes, but we definitively want thin client
04:19
<andygraybeal>
k
04:19
did you install firefox onto the thin client image?
04:19
<Merwin>
Yes, I can start it. But currently I don't think it's run as a localapp (so slow :)
04:20
<andygraybeal>
did you test local apps with xterm?
04:20
just to make postiive your localapps work?
04:20
<Merwin>
I test
04:21
It works with xter
04:21
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin, then type 'firefox' into the xterm, see what happens
04:21
<Merwin>
command not found :D
04:22
<andygraybeal>
looks like you need to install firefox into the thin client's image
04:22
<Hyperbyte>
:)
04:22* andygraybeal ^5's Hyperbyte
04:23
<Hyperbyte>
=D
04:23
<Merwin>
What do you mean by 'thin client image' ? I installed it on teh server, they did ltsp-update-image
04:23
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin, on the server there are two operating systems
04:23
<andygraybeal>
here lemme find the docs
04:23
<Merwin>
Ah you mean in the chroot
04:23
<Hyperbyte>
One is the server OS, which is the normal operating system. There's also the operating system for the client, which is in /opt/ltsp/i386/
04:23
<Merwin>
Ok so chrot /opt/ltsp/i386 and apt-get install firefox :)
04:24
I'll test
04:24
<andygraybeal>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPLocalAppSetup
04:24
<Hyperbyte>
If you want to run an application locally on the client, you'll have to install it in the client chroot, not on the server
04:25
<Merwin>
Ok, thanks, I test that ;
04:25
<andygraybeal>
:))))
04:25
<Merwin>
But, what's the difference between LTSP Cluster and LTSP if you can run localapps on both
04:25
I thought only ltsp cluster supported that
04:26
<Hyperbyte>
LTSP Cluster = multiple servers
04:26
<Merwin>
rofl, so I could have installed LTSP I've just one server xD
04:26
<andygraybeal>
:)))
04:26
<Hyperbyte>
If you have say, 50 thin clients, you could still manage probably if you had a really fast server. If you have hundreds, you'll need several servers in a cluster to serve all the clients.
04:27
<Merwin>
Ok, I got it ;)
04:27
<andygraybeal>
thanks for letting me lead that one Hyperbyte :)
04:28
i know a little of some stuff!!
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04:29
<Gnoze5>
Merwin: http://jonathancarter.org/2010/11/24/how-do-ltsp-fat-clients-work/
04:29
that should help you
04:29
<andygraybeal>
yea, i got plenty of ram in my clients, so fat client is best setup for me!
04:30
server can handle more things :)
04:30
<Gnoze5>
andygraybeal: what do you can plenty of ram?
04:30
<andygraybeal>
i got 1gb in each box
04:30
Gnoze5, what?
04:30
<Gnoze5>
andygraybeal: youve answered my question :P
04:30
<andygraybeal>
:)
04:31
i was like.. what?! :P
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04:31
<Hyperbyte>
Hehe
04:31
andygraybeal, how much do you have in the server?
04:32
<Gnoze5>
andygraybeal: what distro do you use for the fatties?
04:32
<andygraybeal>
ubuntu for everything.. i'm an idiot.. ubuntu is for me :)
04:32
<Hyperbyte>
'fatties'...
04:32* Hyperbyte snickers
04:32
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, i got 8gb in the server.. but i got a server on deck that can handle up to 48GB ... it has 12 in it now... it's still under testing... i'm trying to get SSO to work with all my apps.
04:33
<Hyperbyte>
Oh, nice!
04:33
CPU? :)
04:33
<Merwin>
Ok firefox starts (with an ugly them, but it starts), but no connection :x
04:33
<andygraybeal>
what is is.. two dual core 3gHz
04:33
Merwin, yayayayayayaya!!!
04:33
<Hyperbyte>
Nice. :)
04:33
<andygraybeal>
now you needs the proxy!!
04:33
<Gnoze5>
Merwin: proxy, dns?
04:33
<andygraybeal>
let me let me !!
04:34
i know the answer.. hold on lemme find the web page. no one else answer
04:34* Hyperbyte resists
04:34
<Gnoze5>
lol
04:34
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin: see how eager everyone is to help you? :P
04:34
<Merwin>
No proxy, no dns. But thin clients are in a subnetxork
04:34
<Gnoze5>
Ive settled to Ubuntu 10.04 for our first deployment
04:34
<andygraybeal>
yea, i got 10.04
04:34
<Merwin>
I this that Hyperbyte xD
04:34
<Gnoze5>
i hope its the right choice
04:35
<andygraybeal>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT/
04:35
i got it!!!
04:35
Merwin read that
04:35
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin, do you have a router in your network?
04:35
<Merwin>
Yep, before internet
04:36
I read andygraybeal thanks
04:36
<Hyperbyte>
Are the LTSP clients connected to the router, or to the LTSP server only?
04:36
<andygraybeal>
Merwin, awesome, your fast :)
04:36
<Merwin>
To the LTSP server
04:36
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin, then that page is for you, yes.
04:36
<Merwin>
andygraybeal: "I'm readong" ;)
04:36
<Hyperbyte>
:)
04:36
<andygraybeal>
oh yea, dual nic setup :)
04:36Selveste1 (~Selveste1@88.83.86.20.static.dong.customer.smilecontent.dk) joined #ltsp.
04:37
<Hyperbyte>
My terminal server only has one NIC, I connect all clients via our main router.
04:37
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, weirdo
04:37
<Hyperbyte>
Why? =)
04:37
<andygraybeal>
just kidding.. i dunno why i said that
04:37
<Hyperbyte>
Hahah
04:38
It's easiest, if you already have a router in your network. =)
04:38
<andygraybeal>
Merwin, if you want to print from firefox.. your gonna need to install cups in the chroot also
04:39
that's why .. for me.. it's easiest to use fatties and not localapps
04:39
so much extra config for localapps.. and it's totally awkward
04:40
<Gnoze5>
(did i just coin the term fatties?)
04:40
<andygraybeal>
:)
04:40
*follows suite
04:40
check irc logs :)
04:42
<Merwin>
It works fine, thank you ;)
04:42
<andygraybeal>
rawk!!! \o/ !!
04:42
<Merwin>
Do you know why the FF theme is ulgy ?
04:42
(King of no-themed gtk)
04:42
kind*
04:43
<andygraybeal>
cause you need to install like gtk theme.. or something.. it's huge and it may not work... your kinda stuck
04:43
it's rediculous becuase you might as well run fat clients at that point.. cause it makes your client image hugemongous
04:43
<Merwin>
humf :/
04:43
<andygraybeal>
yea, i thuoght the same thing.. how much memory do your clients have?
04:44
<Merwin>
But you can't look a video in youtube correctly without forefox running as al ocalapp
04:44
512M
04:44
<andygraybeal>
ah 512..
04:44
just forget the theme in ff
04:44
it's okay :)
04:44
<Gnoze5>
Merwin: you can but you will hog server resources like there is no tmrw..
04:45
btw
04:45
firefox alternatives?
04:45
anyone better at managing ram?
04:45
<andygraybeal>
dillo?
04:45alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp.
04:46
<andygraybeal>
our fearless leader has joined!
04:46
we need like an anthem or something
04:47
<alkisg>
"I'm a poor lonesome teacher" would do :P
04:47* andygraybeal queues the valkyre
04:49
<Gnoze5>
i mean its hard to believe that there isnt a decent browser for linux that doesnt hog memory..
04:49
<andygraybeal>
dillo !
04:49
<alkisg>
Is there one for other OSes?
04:49
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: i had a feeling you would say that
04:49
<andygraybeal>
http://www.dillo.org/
04:49
<alkisg>
Flash by itself needs a few hundend MB RAM...
04:50
<andygraybeal>
isn't dillo supposed to be awesome :)
04:50
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: flash needs to die
04:50* alkisg will be the first to throw the stone if he's given the chance :D
04:51
<Gnoze5>
flahs got famous for all the wrong reasons
04:51
<alkisg>
Gnoze5: so anyway, the lowest non-ltsp descent surfing I did was with tinycorelinux + opera 8.5, with 128 MB RAM.
04:52
<andygraybeal>
nice
04:52
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: what was the lowest LTSP decent surfing you did?
04:52
<andygraybeal>
did yuo try dillo?
04:52
<alkisg>
With 64 mb ram, but not with localapps
04:52
<Gnoze5>
andygraybeal: dillo is a bad name , i keep reading dildo
04:52
<alkisg>
Dillo is super light but it doesn't provide descent browsing :)
04:53
<andygraybeal>
Gnoze5, haha awesome ..... we have dill bread here at the restaurant, and before you cook it.. it's dill dough :)
04:53
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: whats a good balance?
04:53
<andygraybeal>
alkisg, aah no decent browsing
04:53
<alkisg>
How much ram on the client?
04:53
512?
04:53
256?
04:53
<Gnoze5>
lowest 256
04:53
average 512
04:53
max 2
04:54
<alkisg>
With 256 I wouldn't use localapps
04:54
With 512, I'd put any browser + flash locally.
04:54
<Gnoze5>
i tried firefox on our t5630 locally and it wasnt awesome..
04:54
flash was clearly slow
04:54
512 + eden 1gz
04:54
Ghz
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04:54
<alkisg>
Local flash speed is limited by cpu + graphics card
04:55
But at least in that case it doesn't hog the network
04:55
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: yeah
04:55
alkisg: is the problem really the network?
04:55
<alkisg>
network and server cpu.
04:55
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: the problem i saw was actually the resources on the server side
04:55
<alkisg>
Both for flash
04:55
Resources? E.g. RAM or disk shouldn't matter
04:55
Just cpu
04:55
<Gnoze5>
really?
04:55
interesting.
04:55
i thought ram was crucial
04:56
is there a way to optimize ffox + flash that i ahvent figured?
04:56
<alkisg>
Usually people have enough RAM on the server so that no swapping occurs...
04:56
<Gnoze5>
yeah swapping is the killer
04:56
<alkisg>
Well for youtube there are some greasemonkey extensions that replace flash with vlc or mplayer plugins
04:57
<Gnoze5>
yesterday i tested 10 clients on one server with 2GB
04:57
<alkisg>
Those use e.g. 5% cpu instead of the 50% that flash uses
04:57
<Gnoze5>
(i use vms to simulate cleints btw)
04:57
and RAM was the mainc oncern
04:57
<alkisg>
Well if you loaded 10 VMs with what, 512 ram, it would take 5 Gb RAM
04:57
Just for the VMs, not for LTSP
04:58
<Gnoze5>
yeah but i have a big virtualization server for testing
04:58
its seperate from the ltsp server
04:58
<alkisg>
OK let me put it another way - for 1 year I worked on a lab with 10 clients where the ltsp server had 1 Gb RAM
04:59
Then I upgraded to 3. Saw a small difference, but nothing crucial.
04:59
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: 512 ram clients? local app ffox + flash?
04:59
<alkisg>
No, plain thin clients using the server RAM
04:59
128 MB RAM each
04:59
<Gnoze5>
what kind of usage?
05:00
<alkisg>
School usage. Openoffice, surfing, drawing etc
05:00
<Gnoze5>
surfing without flash?
05:00
<alkisg>
With flash
05:00
And youtube and other sites that the students visit
05:01
<Gnoze5>
did you use the flash substitutes in those cases?
05:02
<alkisg>
No they didn't exist at that time
05:02
Of course flash wasn't fast
05:02
<Gnoze5>
alkisg: are there downsides to them? because otherwise i cant see why we wouldnt do it
05:02
<alkisg>
Yes, e.g. sometimes youtube changes its internal format and you need to wait for the extension update for it to work again
05:03
<Gnoze5>
annoying
05:03
<alkisg>
Or in some cases seeking doesn't work
05:03
Yup, flash sucks
05:03
You can also try html5 in youtube with google chrome
05:03
(not firefox not chromium)
05:03
<Gnoze5>
yeah html5 is the future
05:04
<alkisg>
In some content it uses *much* less cpu due to their decoder
05:04
<Gnoze5>
all our development has been done with html5 in mind
05:04
<alkisg>
In other cases it's just as bad (cpu wise) as flash
05:04
<Gnoze5>
anyway alkisg for testing purposes we have been using xmacro
05:04
to simulate user activity
05:04
do you have any other way of doing that?
05:05
<alkisg>
No, when I want to test i just run specific scripts, like e.g. "play that video" or "open that website"
05:06
<Gnoze5>
yeah its what i thought
05:06
but i actually ask one of our devs to start working on a dynamic way of testing
05:06
we'll share once we have something decent
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05:06
<alkisg>
Nice, I'd rather have something completely measurable like x11perf
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05:07
<alkisg>
E.g. "for playing this specific divx, so much bandwidth was needed, so much cpu on the server, so much cpu on each client"
05:07
<Gnoze5>
yeah I totally understand
05:07
we have a few performance freaks in the team
05:07
so im sure we'll find a way
05:07
<alkisg>
I've done my share of benchmarking, if you ever need feedback ping me
05:08
E.g. the formula for XV accelerated video vs non accelerated etc
05:08
<Gnoze5>
you know I will lol
05:08
<alkisg>
(bandwidth)
05:09
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
05:09
<Gnoze5>
good morrow mgariepy
05:09
<alkisg>
Hi mgariepy
05:09
Instead of xmacro I've used xte on some cases, but they look similar
05:09
<Gnoze5>
i wasnt impressed with xmacro
05:10
but it served a pre-testing purpose
05:10
with a bit of hacking
05:10
anyway time for evil meetings and such
05:10
ttys people
05:10
thanks again alkisg
05:10
<alkisg>
np
05:10mlky (~mlky@nat1.semler.dk) joined #ltsp.
05:10
<mlky>
oh hai gais
05:15
<andygraybeal>
evil meetings
05:15
hi mlky :)
05:17
<highvoltage>
u/win 26
05:21
<mlky>
can someone help me use my existing tftpd server to boot into my ltsp server which is on the same network
05:21
linking to docs will be fine :P
05:26Gnoze5 (4fa86f05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.168.111.5) left irc: Quit: Page closed
05:26
<Hyperbyte>
Why would you want to use an existing TFTP server?
05:28dead_root (~dead_root@76.75.3.174) joined #ltsp.
05:31
<Appiah>
mlky: move the files to the that server
05:31
change the dhcp option next-server that points out the server
05:32
you just need to tell to dhcp server to look at "existingserver"
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05:39
<dyllan>
hi guys. I made such a rookie error I accidentally deleted my /opt/ltsp/i386 directory I thought I was on a different server and was going to run the sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 command. Im so pissed off as this is a production environment im such an a-hole.
05:39
<mlky>
Hyperbyte, here at work we already have a tftp server with images for installing new pc's, wouldnt i be able to have an image on that tftp server that boots to my ltsp server?
05:39
<dyllan>
What kinda problems am i going to run into. Should i rebuild it with: sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
05:39
:(
05:40
<Merwin>
Hey, I've set LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS to 'firefox', but launching firefox from the menu doesn't start it as a local app
05:40
I have to run ltsp-localapp firefox in console for it to work
05:41
Any clue? From what I read into the wiki, it hsould work like this (I checked that firefox.desktop is placed in usr/share/applications)
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05:42
<Merwin>
hum wait, not sure I saved :D
05:46
Nope, it does work. Now, all me ubuntu theme has been disabled but firefox isn't run as a localapp
05:46
<mlky>
Appiah, where do i tell what to what?
05:46
i have no control over our dhcp server, i have access to the tftpd server and ltsp server
05:47
<alkisg>
mlky: tftp is only for the kernel. Then NBD or NFS is used. So no, you cannot use *only* your existing server, you also need the ltsp server. And if you need the ltsp server anyway, why not also use its tftp server, instead of transfering the kernel to your tftp server on each update?
05:47drdata (~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #ltsp.
05:50
<mlky>
what exactly are you suggesting i do? im not sure i follow, how can i get users to pxe boot to my ltsp server with what i have to work wit
05:50
h
05:50
?
05:51bobby_C (~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #ltsp.
05:51
<alkisg>
mlky: how do your users currently select which image they want to load? With a pxe menu?
05:51
Or you select that on a per client basis with dhcpd.conf?
05:53
<mlky>
pxe menu
05:54
<alkisg>
Erm sorry didn't ask correctly, there's a difference between "pxe menu" and "pxelinux menu"
05:55
For pure pxe menu (pxe=protocol, dnsmasq supports it) you can directly specify the tftp server there
05:55
For pxelinux, you should ask in the #syslinux channel, on how to specify a different tftp server
05:55
(that should be just 1 line in the pxelinux.cfg/default file)
05:56
<mlky>
hm, i believe its pxelinux
05:56
<alkisg>
I believe so too, not many people use plain pxe menus
05:57
<mlky>
its tftpd32.exe running on winxp, yrk
05:57
:((
05:57
right, thank you, i will ask for help in #syslinux channel
05:57
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter, ask in #syslinux on how to chain to a different tftp server
05:58
And then if you want notify here as well :D
05:58
<mlky>
depends if i get an answer before im off from work :P
05:58
<Merwin>
andygraybeal: Running firefox on youtube video as a localapp take around 120Mb/512Mb it's correct
05:58
<andygraybeal>
sounds right, i have no idea though alkisg and others know better :)
05:59
i think it really depends what your doing
05:59
<Merwin>
Yeah of course, ther's just one open tab ;)
06:00
<andygraybeal>
Merwin, yea, if your asking if that sounds right, then it sounds right :)
06:00
<Merwin>
Anyway I still can't start FF as a localapp from the gnome menu :/
06:00
<andygraybeal>
aah you need to add it to the menu!! let me find the HTML ... hOLD
06:00
it's in lts.conf
06:00
<Merwin>
I did it
06:00
<Merwin> Hey, I've set LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS to 'firefox', but launching firefox from the menu doesn't start it as a local app
06:00
<Merwin> I have to run ltsp-localapp firefox in console for it to work
06:01
<andygraybeal>
oh oh ohoh oh
06:01
well.. obviously you updated your image.. hmmm...
06:01
<Merwin>
yep
06:01alkisg1 (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp.
06:02
<andygraybeal>
wait for someone else to answer, i don't know the answer
06:02
sorry
06:02
<Merwin>
Ok, thanks ;)
06:02
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, get back here
06:02
<Merwin>
:p
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06:03Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg
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06:06
<andygraybeal>
throw your lts.conf into a pastebin and paste the url just to seee what is up
06:06
it probably won't help, but i don't know what else to do (i'm not very good at this yet)
06:07
<Merwin>
I don't have an lts.conf because I'm using ltsp cluster :D
06:07
The configuration is done via a web interface
06:07
<andygraybeal>
oh.. i never have done this
06:07
<Merwin>
(You can define per-computer lts.conf, etc)
06:08
<andygraybeal>
have no idea
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06:08Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg
06:09
<Hyperbyte>
andygraybeal?
06:09
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, hey Merwin can't get his firefox to run from the menu, but it works from xterm; can you help? he's got the config set to menu in lts.conf
06:09
<Hyperbyte>
Merwin, I've never used LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS
06:09
<andygraybeal>
i was just being obnoxious :)
06:10
<alkisg>
LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
06:10
<andygraybeal>
yes yes yes; that too!
06:10
<Hyperbyte>
I've always created a launcher on the host computer that executed "ltsp-localapps <program>"
06:10
<andygraybeal>
see it's all on ubuntu documentation
06:10Gadi (~romm@ool-18bbe47a.static.optonline.net) joined #ltsp.
06:10
<andygraybeal>
under LTSP
06:10
<alkisg>
No need for LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS unless you want to *restrict* the items that show up in the menus
06:10
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, so the easiest is what I did, and create launchers for it?
06:11
<andygraybeal>
Hyperbyte, you did it the hard way :)
06:11
<Hyperbyte>
:O
06:11
I found it quite easy already. :P
06:11
Hehe
06:11
Hey hey hey mr. Gadi! Just the one I've been looking for. :-) (in a positive way of course)
06:11
Could I borrow a minute of your precious time? :)
06:12
<Gadi>
cant tiptoe into this chatroom....
06:12
Hyperbyte: sup?
06:12
<Hyperbyte>
Hahahah
06:12
<dberkholz>
Gadi: the trick is to always be "here", so people never know when you're really around
06:12
<Hyperbyte>
I've been told you're the xrandr wizard. *points at Alkisg*
06:12
<Merwin>
alkisg: But LOCAL_APPS_MENU will enable all the applications as local apps?
06:13
<Hyperbyte>
I have blurry second displays with the LTSP Term 1720 thin client (Intel GMA 950 graphics)
06:13
They're in the correct resolution, correct refresh rate (as far as I can tell), there's no distortion on the cable
06:14
Any idea what else could cause this? :)
06:14
<Gadi>
has alkisg asked you to post the output of xrandr and the Xorg log file to pastebin?
06:14
<alkisg>
Merwin: only those that you installed, i.e. those in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/applications/
06:14
<Hyperbyte>
Gadi, no. :P
06:14
<alkisg>
Liar :)
06:14
<Gadi>
im surprised
06:14
:)
06:15
<Hyperbyte>
Gadi, one moment. :)
06:16
<alkisg>
Merwin: again, to be clear: for local apps to show up in the gnome menus, you *always* need LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True, and depending on your use case, you *may* need LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS.
06:17
<andygraybeal>
dberkholz, hah :)
06:17
<Hyperbyte>
Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/xrandr.txt
06:18
Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/xorglog.txt
06:19
Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-term-1720-displays/comparison.jpg (display on the right is VGA, and is a bit unsharp)
06:19
<Gadi>
looks like you are setting your horzsync and vertrefresh?
06:20
<Hyperbyte>
Not really actually
06:20
It's --auto
06:20
<Gadi>
[ 1503.941] (II) intel(0): Using hsync ranges from config file [ 1503.941] (II) intel(0): Using vrefresh ranges from config file
06:20
can you paste your lts.conf?
06:21
<Hyperbyte>
I can, but there's only X_BLANKING=120 and X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 in there, regarding X options
06:21
<Gadi>
hmm...
06:21
<Hyperbyte>
There is a hack from diskless workstations in the Xorg.conf, but that only disables LVDS1
06:22
<Gadi>
on the thin client, can you check the contents of /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
06:22
(yeah, you may need to disable the TV1 output, if you are not using it, but lets explore)
06:22
<Merwin>
alkisg: Thanks, I will test ;)
06:24
<Hyperbyte>
Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-xorg-conf.txt
06:25
<Gadi>
fair enough - oh, and you arent going thru any converters of any kind, right?
06:25
DVI->VGA, etc
06:25
<Hyperbyte>
No sir.
06:27
<Gadi>
does the VGA monitor itself have a "sharpen" feature in the monitor menu?
06:27
sometimes, the monitor itself overcorrects
06:27
<Hyperbyte>
Nope. It happens with all screens connected to the VGA output as far as I can tell, about six different screens
06:28
I also reset all monitor settings, but that doesn't help.
06:29
I also have two screens which are identical, and when I switch them around (from DVI to VGA and VGA to DVI) the fuzzyness goes on on the other screen. So I'm assuming it's pre-monitor.
06:29
I've also checked to see if the VGA cable doesn't run close to power connectors in my setup, which it didn't, except for the main power on the LTSP Term 1720. That connector is right below the VGA connector.
06:30
Don't think 11 watt is enough to interfere with the VGA signal though.
06:30
<Gadi>
so, u mean VGA is always fuzzy
06:30
even when you switch monitors
06:31
(keep in mind, VGA by its very nature is less sharp than DVI)
06:31
<Hyperbyte>
Well yeah, but we've been using VGA screens for years
06:31
And then suddenly I switch to LTSP terminals and it isn't sharp enough anymore... that seems a bit strange
06:32
<Gadi>
right
06:32
ok, one sec
06:33
<Hyperbyte>
:)
06:37
<Gadi>
out of curiosity, can you open a terminal and type: xrandr --output TV1 --off
06:38
oh, one other thing - do you know what the native resolution of the monitor is?
06:38
once upon a time, you could set a monitor to any resolution and expect decent results
06:39
these days, it seems, if you use anything but the monitor's native or preferred resolution, all bets are off
06:39
:)
06:40
<Hyperbyte>
Identical displays: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-term-1720-displays/modes.jpg
06:40
(that picture is out of focus by the way, in case you're wondering)
06:40
xrandr --output TV1 --off seems to have no effect
06:41
Waits for a second or two and then drops back to prompt. Presumably it turned TV1 off, but nothing visible happened
06:42
<Gadi>
wait, that screenshot says 1650x1080, but you are driving neither monitor that way
06:42
<Hyperbyte>
Sorry
06:42
The logs I posted is from different monitors. =)
06:43
That's not smart from me. But regardless, they are running in their native resolution.
06:43
<Gadi>
but, is 1680x1050 the native resolution of the monitor?
06:43
<Hyperbyte>
Of that one, yes. The logs I sent you should be 1980x1200 and 1280x1024 I think.
06:44
<Gadi>
what happens if you drive them at 1680x1050?
06:44
does the blurriness go away?
06:47
<Hyperbyte>
Sorry, I'm confusing you
06:47
The picture I sent you is from a different system, with two 22" screens
06:47
Also blurry
06:48
The logs and config I fetched for you just now are from a workstation nearer to me, which has two screens with native resolutions 1920x1200 and 1280x1024
06:48
Basically... forget the picture. :)
06:48
<Gadi>
:)
06:48
does it get better if you don't force the color depth?
06:49
<Hyperbyte>
So remove X_COLOR_DEPTH from lts.conf?
06:49
<Gadi>
yeah - or comment it out
06:50
<Hyperbyte>
Means I gotta reboot the client, one moment. :)
06:54shawnp0wers (~Adium@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) joined #ltsp.
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06:55
<Hyperbyte>
Results are in
06:55
I think it has improved
06:56
My boss isn't sure, he finds the colors bland (but I think he's just too used to his 22" LED display)
06:56
Heh
06:56
And secretary who was complaining earlier about screen being fuzzy isn't sure
06:56
I hate problems that are difficult to measure. :|
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06:57
<Hyperbyte>
I'm gonna have to rebuild a test client with two identical screens
07:01
Okay... back to my test client with two identical 22" screens
07:01
Can safely say the VGA screen is still fuzzy as ever
07:02
When you put it next to the DVI it's a dead giveaway.
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07:51
<Gadi>
Hyperbyte: out of curiosity, can it be corrected at all by adjusting settings in: System > Preferences > Appearance : Fonts?
08:03DaGeek_ (~Da-Geek@nat/redhat/x-azxlqsbmuwupmbdm) left irc: Quit: Leaving
08:09
<Hyperbyte>
Gadi, I'm gonna have to get back to you on that :)
08:09
Time for me to leave and enjoy 3 days out-of-office. :)
08:09
Thanks for all your help!
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08:26
<andygraybeal>
3 day vacation !!!! never
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09:13
<Hyperbyte>
Well, "vacation"
09:13LoveStorm (Stoka@217.18.70.231) joined #ltsp.
09:13
<Hyperbyte>
Tomorrow I have a day filled with coaching and workshops
09:14
After that it's a national day off, some religious holiday... although I will be working actually, because a day that nobody else works is opportunity for me to kill and/or reboot some servers
09:14
And friday I do have a day off. :)
09:14Gnoze5 (~Gnoze5@static-b4-252-232.telepac.pt) joined #ltsp.
09:14
<Gnoze5>
gentlmen
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09:35
<andygraybeal>
coaching and workshops
09:41
nice
09:42
Hyperbyte, nice :)
09:46jcbm (~chatzilla@186.5.54.218) joined #ltsp.
09:46
<jcbm>
Hello everybody
09:46
I have some troubles with USB devices when they're plugged on the clients
09:48
is there someone that can help me please?
09:49
<alkisg>
jcbm: describe your problem as well as you can, and then wait for some time for answers
09:49
Not all people constantly watch the channel, so one might answer you e.g. after half an hour
09:49
<jcbm>
ok, thanks alkisg
09:49
I'm working with Edubuntu 11.04 and LTSP
09:50
Everything goes ok, but I need to connect RFID usb devices on the clients but they're not recognized on it
09:51
if I connect the rfid usb on the server it works fine, but not in the clients
09:51
please your help
09:53
<Hyperbyte>
What do you want to do with the RFID USB devices?
09:54
<andygraybeal>
(i would love it to do inventory with... but this is a dream.. and will never happen!)
09:54
<jcbm>
The RFID USB devices sense cards to open or close doors
09:55
<Hyperbyte>
No, I mean, technically.
09:56
What program do they interface with, how do they interface with it, and where does the program run (client or server) and why there?
09:56
Basically...
09:56
I'll explain a bit more along the lines which I'm thinking
09:56
<jcbm>
ok
09:56
<Hyperbyte>
LTSP clients support USB to server, but this works via filesystem mount.
09:56
<jcbm>
on each client we have a software developed on Java
09:56
<Hyperbyte>
Meaning, if the USB device doesn't have a filesystem, LTSP won't make it available on the server.
09:57
Go on. :)
09:58
...? :)
09:58
<jcbm>
this software manage the USB device (RFID), it reads the information sent by RFID device
09:58
<Hyperbyte>
Okay...
09:58
<jcbm>
and in some cases
09:59
the information is sent to another app that uses a database to storage the records
09:59
<Hyperbyte>
And the java software runs on the terminal server, right?
09:59
<jcbm>
it runs on each client
10:00
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, so you're not actually trying to get the USB device working from client to server or vice versa?
10:00
Just on the clients, with localapps?
10:00
<jcbm>
no
10:01
the software works fine
10:01
but, my problem is the usb devices
10:01
ther're not recognized
10:01
on the client
10:02
<Hyperbyte>
What does dmesg say about it? (use pastebin)
10:03
<jcbm>
dmesg says nothing, it seems like the usb is not present
10:03
<Hyperbyte>
What if you disconnect the device, plug it in again, and then look at dmesg?
10:03
There should be something in the last few lines about it
10:03
<jcbm>
but if I connect a storage usb device it works fine
10:03
the problem is with RFID USB
10:03
ok let me check again
10:04
<Hyperbyte>
I understand you, but you're gonna have to start by looking to see if the device is recognised, and how it is recognised
10:04
dmesg will tell you taht.
10:05
<jcbm>
ok, i'm gonna chec it again
10:07
<Hyperbyte>
If you disconnect and then reconnect the device, you can make sure the last lines in dmesg are about the device
10:09
<Gnoze5>
hm
10:09
i just got one of those intel 510 integrated atom boards
10:09
with 1 GB ram
10:09
pretty cool for a terminal
10:10
the actual itx case
10:10
is more expensive than all of the components
10:10
<jcbm>
Sorry, when i plug it on the client dmesg says nothing
10:12
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, shouldn't dmesg *always* say something when you plug in a USB device?
10:12
<alkisg>
No idea, but `udevadm -monitor` can be used to monitor usb events
10:13
<Hyperbyte>
Okay, try that then. :)
10:13* alkisg hasn't read what you guys are talking about though :D
10:13
<Hyperbyte>
udevadm -monitor and then plug in the USB device
10:13
alkisg, USB RFID reader not recognized on client
10:13
<alkisg>
That on a local terminal, right?
10:13
<Hyperbyte>
Ho, yeah, that's a good one. This all needs to happen on a local terminal, on the client. If you were doing it on the server, then it makes sense dmesg is empty.
10:14
<jcbm>
yes on a local terminal
10:14
<Hyperbyte>
Okay, try the udevadm thing then.
10:15
See if that reacts to the USB device being disconnected/reconnected
10:15
<jcbm>
oki, i monitor with udevadm
10:15
but it not recognize again
10:15
<Gnoze5>
I have to find a 30 euro case because then we have a 70 euro client with a gma 3150 1GB ram and an Atom 1.6, not bad
10:16leio (~leio@gentoo/developer/leio) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
10:16
<alkisg>
jcbm: I just quickly read what you wrote - are you trying to use a local usb device, *not* a file system, from a java app running *not* as a localapp? (i.e. it's running on the server?)
10:16
If so, it won't work, only file systems are supported
10:16
(with ltspfsd)
10:16
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, the java app is running on the client.
10:17
<alkisg>
Is that certain? jcbm did you configure java to run as a localapp?
10:17
<jcbm>
yes, but my first step is to have a /dev/ttyUSB0 working
10:17
but i don't have it, so the sw cannnot work without that device
10:17
<alkisg>
jcbm: this is the critical question: did you configure java to run as a localapp?
10:17
<jcbm>
yes
10:18
but again, my first problem is not the software
10:18
<Hyperbyte>
I agree that the first step is getting the client to react to the USB connection. Even if it's an error, it should react in some form. What does udevadm say?
10:18
<jcbm>
my problem is get gorking the rfid usb device
10:18
<alkisg>
If the software is not running as a localapp, then it's running on the server, and that's why you don't see the device
10:18
jcbm: so, that's what you need to look first.
10:18
<jcbm>
yes that's the problem
10:19
<alkisg>
jcbm: can you paste your lts.conf ?
10:19
<jcbm>
ok
10:19
<alkisg>
(to pastebin)
10:19
<Hyperbyte>
!pastebin
10:19
<alkisg>
Bot's been away for months :(
10:19
<Hyperbyte>
Oh
10:19
Why? :)
10:19
<alkisg>
Good question :)
10:19
<Hyperbyte>
I could host it, if that's the problem.
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10:20
<alkisg>
I'm not sure what the problem is
10:21
<highvoltage>
I guess the problem is that something went wrong (probably not a big problem) and scotty just been too busy to start it up / fix it again
10:23
<jcbm>
http://pastebin.com/DBSuAema
10:24
there's my lts.conf
10:24
<alkisg>
jcbm: and how do you start your app? From the gnome menu?
10:25
<jcbm>
from console
10:25
<alkisg>
OK, start it, and then run ps -ef, and put the result to pastebin.
10:26
So that we can verify if it runs on the client or on the server
10:27
(to run it as a localapp, you'd need to run `ltsp-localapps xterm`, and then on *that* console to start java)
10:27
(or to create a .desktop file for that)
10:29
<jcbm>
ok thats for the software
10:29
but for example
10:30
when i work on the server
10:30
i connect the usb device
10:30
and it's recognized inmediatly, i can see a /dev/ttyUSB0 device created
10:31
but when i repeat that's steps on the client /dev/ttyUSB0 is not present
10:31
<alkisg>
jcbm: I think you don't realise what localapps are
10:31
Try this:
10:31
(while sitting on the client)
10:31
ltsp-localapps xterm
10:31
This will get you a *local* terminal
10:32
There, run: udevadm monitor
10:32
And plug your device
10:32
You should see both the events and the /dev/ttyUSB0 then
10:33
<jcbm>
ok, wait a minute i have a problem with udevadm on that enviroment
10:33
<alkisg>
Your problem probably is that you're trying to see /dev/ttyUSB0 on the server, not on the client.
10:33
Which distro/version is it?
10:33dlezcano (~dlezcano@AToulouse-159-1-15-18.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #ltsp.
10:34
<jcbm>
edubuntu 11.04
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10:34
<alkisg>
10:34
What problems are you having with udevadm?
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10:34
<jcbm>
ohh ok
10:34
i saw it
10:35
the /dev/ttyUSB0 is present
10:35
explain me something, whereis that device located on the server?
10:35
<alkisg>
It isn't available on the server
10:36
LTSP doesn't forward any usb devices. Only usb file systems.
10:36
<jcbm>
ok i understand, so, how can i call for it from the app
10:36
<alkisg>
You need to install the app as a localapp
10:37
<jcbm>
the app is just a folder
10:37
<alkisg>
So that it runs locally on the client, not on the server
10:37
<jcbm>
is not a binary packet or something like that
10:37
<alkisg>
Install java on your chroot and any other dependencies required by your app
10:37
Then copy that folder to your chroot
10:38
Then make a /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/applications/myapp.desktop file
10:38
<jcbm>
wowww, thanks
10:38
i will try this now
10:38
<alkisg>
And finally run ltsp-update-image and set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True in lts.conf
10:39
<jcbm>
thanks alkisg
10:39
<alkisg>
You're welcome
10:39
<jcbm>
i will comment you
10:39
my advaces
10:39
advances
10:43
<Gnoze5>
alkisg I keep reading channel logs where you provide the answers lol
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12:14
<andygraybeal>
he's awesome!
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16:15
<Gnoze5>
yo
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17:21
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17:27Nick change: Guest8379 -> andygraybeals
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19:25
<joulez>
hi
19:25
does ltsp work with mounting a mtpfs device?
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00:00--- Wed Jun 1 2011