IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 April 2014   (all times are UTC)

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06:45
<Ark74>
later! ;)
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07:03
<Chap_>
I think I win the weirdest award. Logins works OK. screensaver unlocks do not.
07:15
<gdi2k>
Chap_, I have that issue too!
07:15
just noticed it yesterday
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07:35
<Hyperbyte>
That's normal LTSP behaviour.
07:36
LTSP has a different way of logging in users, so it comes with a custom login manager (LDM). It doesn't come with a custom screensaver. If you want screensaver unlocking to work, you need something like LDAP on top of LTSP.
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11:48
<Ano>
Hello !
11:48
I just made an installation of my LTSP server and I want to know if I made all steps needed to launch my thin client
11:49
<MrV>
you did
11:49
now launch you client
11:49
<Ano>
Ok. . .
11:49
Soooo
11:50
I installed the server, then config dhcp and finally built the client with a 32bit architecture
11:50
<MrV>
tftp?
11:51
<Ano>
Can you put a verb in your sentance please ?
11:52
<MrV>
lol! did you installed and configured tftp server?
11:52
man, there are tons of manual on simply installing ltsp, go rtfm, please
11:53
sorry for being rude if I am...
11:53
<Ano>
I read all the fucking manuals since the beginning of the week
11:53
<MrV>
bye
11:53
<Ano>
I would not be there if I did not
11:53
<MrV>
so where is your question then?
11:54
action - error - question
11:54
a simple road to ask for help
11:55
<Ano>
All services I installed - want to be sure to do not make mistake - do I need some services else ?
11:55
<MrV>
rtfm
11:56
then try to install
11:56
then try to launh client
11:56
then make up a question
11:56
if you did everything as manuals told you - you did everything right
11:57
if not - you're probably did something wrong
11:57
i'm gone
11:57
<Ano>
Thanks captain abvious . . .
11:57
<MrV>
bye
11:57
<Ano>
Is there other support than yours ?
11:58
<MrV>
you make senteces like a russian. are you russian?
11:58
<Ano>
-___-
11:59
<MrV>
how in the hell can I tell you is there any other support than me? I'm not a support
11:59
<Ano>
Why are you the exact archetype of the associal-buddy-irc-"you are so baaad compare to me" ?
12:00
<MrV>
no, I'm a noob in LTSP mostly
12:00
<Ano>
So why the fuck do you answer my question on the the support ltsp irc channel ?
12:00
<MrV>
because noone else did
12:00
and noone else would I guess
12:01
<Ano>
So if it was to have the pleasure to say rtf, congrat
12:01
You won your day
12:01
<MrV>
they never answered my question
12:01
<Ano>
I would have prefer silence than your bullshit
12:01
<MrV>
or you could prefer manuals
12:01
:)
12:01
<Ano>
I'm finish with you troll
12:02
<MrV>
no really, I had a problem with video card
12:02
I thought it was a driver problem
12:02
noone answered me on this channel
12:02
so I continued googling and found out it could be not a driver with the same error message
12:03
"what else?" I thought to myself
12:03
the video card itself?
12:03
no it was good inough... but wait!
12:04
google, give me some manual on this chip.... yeah! right! memory - 4 MB!
12:04
so i set X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
12:04
and there it is!
12:05
so, manual - is a great tool!
12:07
sorry, but I'm really got to go, so good luck to you with your services, installations, clients and all!
12:07
for the last time today - bye!
12:08
<Hyperbyte>
Wow, guys... what's going on here?
12:09
MrV, chill out and be nice.
12:09
Ano, don't swear and ask some good, specific questions.
12:09
What's up?
12:10
<Ano>
Fine, I made my best to stay polite.
12:11
I need to know the very basic services required to boot a thin client.
12:13
For the moment I have in mind ltsp-server ; dhcp-server ; ltsp-client
12:13
Does LTSP required something else ?
12:14
Is my question good enough ?
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12:20
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, why do you want to know all this?
12:20
If you want to know if the installation worked, just boot a client. :-) If it doesn't work, let us know what exactly doesn't work, where it stops, what's on screen, et cetera... and we'll work from there.
12:21
LTSP depends on many services/system parts. Which ones exactly depends on what distro you're using and what LTSP version.
12:22
Generally speaking, dhcpd, tftpd, sshd and nbd should do it on the server site. But as I said, this list differs from distro to distro.
12:23
<Ano>
Sure. And that is what I want to know
12:24
basics
12:24
then the shades of the other stuffs will come with the bug
12:24
So
12:25
My client began to boot and took an ip by the dhcp
12:26
Then gave me the next error message "NFS over TCP not available on -ip.of.the.server-"
12:26
<Hyperbyte>
Which distro is this?
12:27
<Ano>
I'm looking log syslog and searching for the ltsp log. but nothing for the moment.
12:27
Debian 7 updated
12:29
<Hyperbyte>
Not entirely sure about that error. Haven't used Debian myself.
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12:30
<Hyperbyte>
LTSP can use NBD (default) or NFS to mount it's root filesystem. I thought Debian used NBD by default.
12:30
<Ano>
wait
12:30
wikipedia translation
12:31
<Hyperbyte>
Do you have a lot of experience with Linux?
12:31
<Ano>
Can you explain me what NBD is ?
12:31
Linux is like martiel arts
12:32
You lear every time
12:32
+n
12:32
sorry
12:32
Not enough for you to tell things without explainings what they are
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12:32
<gbaman_>
NFS is default on Debian
12:32
with NBD for swap
12:33
Ano: both are methods of mounting the OS for the thin client, basically sending stuff across the network
12:33
<Ano>
Yép
12:33
<gbaman_>
*fat
12:34
NBD is compressed, making it quite a bit more efficient
12:34
but more processor intensive
12:34
for the client? (Hyperbyte correct me if I am wrong)
12:34
also every time you make a change to your OS on the server, you have to recompress the OS
12:35
so when experimenting, you can start with NFS then move to NBD
12:35
NBD is by default used for swap on Debian
12:36
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, not entirely sure.
12:36
<gbaman_>
:)
12:37
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, without sounding like a Ubuntu fanboy (which I'm actually not)... if you're experimenting/learning, it might be more useful to start with setting up an LTSP server on Ubuntu. And then don't pick the latest (newest) version either, stick with 12.04 for now.
12:38
<gbaman_>
agreed, Ubuntu is a tad easier to work with. Only issue is it is normally a version or 2 behind (Debian fanboy)
12:38
but for normal thin clients, that isnt an issue
12:38
<Hyperbyte>
Most people using LTSP are using it in combination with Ubuntu; there's a lot more support for 'buntu. And while I can't speak about setting up LTSP on Debian, I know I haven't managed to screw up once with Ubuntu.
12:38
<gbaman_>
Ano: What were you trying to do btw?
12:39
<Ano>
Thanks for the advice. However I'm not free to choose the distrib ^^
12:39
<gbaman_>
Set up a standard thin client network?
12:39
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, I'm actually more RPM distros fanboy. ;-) But for LTSP I've chosen Ubuntu instead of CentOS or Fedora, because of the better support, actually.
12:39
Ano, I'm not saying you should use Ubuntu period. I'm saying, do a Ubuntu setup first. Or even use an Edubuntu live CD. Then you can see how it works.
12:39
<Ano>
I understand that so
12:40
<gbaman_>
single easiest way to set up LTSP is with LTSP-pnp
12:40
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
12:40
is really simple and quite
12:40
*quick
12:40
<Ano>
what I'm doing is to implement a server, in the place I work
12:40
<gbaman_>
ok
12:40
thin or fat clients?
12:41
<Ano>
with, in the middle of other stuff, a LTSP server for 4 or 5 thin clients
12:41
<gbaman_>
ok
12:41
do you already have a DHCP server on the network?
12:42
<Ano>
Nope I have to implement it on the LTSP's machine
12:42
<gbaman_>
ok
12:42
you running 32 bit or 64 bit Debian?
12:42
(am assuming wheezy)
12:44
<Ano>
64 bit wheezy updated and upgraded
12:44
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, are you planning to use thin or fat clients?
12:44
<Ano>
Thin clients Hyperbyte
12:44
<gbaman_>
do all your thin clients support 64 bit?
12:44
<Ano>
Nope my thin clients are under 32 bit
12:44
<gbaman_>
there goes ltsp-pnp
12:44
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, you understand that when you do that -all software- on -all computers- on your entire network runs on the server, right?
12:45
<Ano>
Yes I do
12:45
<gbaman_>
so gota do it the more manual way
12:45
is the server doing anything else other than a DHCP server and LTSP server?
12:45
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, okay... just checking. :)
12:45
<Ano>
Not for the moment but it will
12:45
<gbaman_>
ok
12:46* gbaman_ likes LTSP-pnp which requires server to be running same as clients
12:46
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, I actually have the same setup as you. I have one real beast of a server, and run everything on it. Don't have any harddisks over here, except in the server room.
12:46
Thing is, I find running all user programs (like Firefox, LibreOffice, etc) on my server OS directly uncomfortable. I actually created a virtual machine for LTSP. :-)
12:47
<Ano>
at home ? Sexy
12:47
<Hyperbyte>
At work.
12:47
:)
12:48
This is one setup you could consider as well, using a virtual machine for LTSP. Then if, say, you require some specific piece of software for your clients, you don't have to install it on your actual server.
12:49
<Ano>
Well It doesn't matter it's for clients which aren't used so much they have an utilitary role not production one. We are working like that curently the goal is to implement a new server to stop paying the one we rent and that do not work.
12:49
But I have to do with the material I have
12:49
Soo
12:49
I wanna read pnp support
12:49
<gbaman_>
what have you done so far?
12:50
<Ano>
To see what is the point with it
12:50
<gbaman_>
LTSP setup wise
12:50
<Hyperbyte>
Virtual server doesn't require (much) extra resources. Overhead is neglible. Anyway, it's besides the point. You can do it on the host/server OS itself as well.
12:50
<gbaman_>
pnp basically uses the host OS instead of building a completely new one that is separate
12:50
it is quick and easy
12:50
but means every package you install on the server, will also be included on the clients
12:51
<Ano>
And I wanna install a nbd server to try to boot my server again
12:51
<gbaman_>
you should though be able to just use the normal method
12:51
<Ano>
Ok gbaman_
12:51
<gbaman_>
and should be as simple as installing
12:51
and building client
12:51
so
12:51
sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
12:52
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
12:52
<Ano>
then dhcpd
12:52
<gbaman_>
then need to work out DHCP server
12:52
i am used to having to work on networks that already have DHCP servers
12:52
<Ano>
Exactly the cross where I am
12:53
<gbaman_>
hmm, am sure one of my virtuals was set up with a DHCP server..
12:54
actually, LTSP contains something to auto setup DHCP..
12:54
hmm
12:54
<Ano>
I have an idea (quite basic)
12:54
init 6
12:54
<gbaman_>
ltsp-server-standalone has a DHCP server...
12:54
configured?
12:55
<Ano>
Yes of course, and I wrote in the default dhcpd.conf to go to the ltsp dhcpd.conf
12:56
<gbaman_>
ltsp-config dnsmasq --no-proxy-dhcp
12:56
that might do it?
12:56
or break everything
12:56
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, no idea about Debian, but is nfsd started?
12:56
<gbaman_>
cant test it as I already have a DHCP server on this network (so would break everything)
12:56
<Ano>
ok wait
12:57
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, Ano pasted an error before... client got DHCP, but couldn't mount NFS. I think he's one step past what you're trying to fix.
12:57
<gbaman_>
ohh
12:57
ok
12:57
<Ano>
gbaman_: what this command should do ? Hyperbyte what is nfsd ?
12:57
<gbaman_>
so he already has a working DHCP server, thanks Hyperbyte
12:58
well debian does default to NFS, maybe worth switching to NBD
12:59
<Ano>
I have a NBD server allready install. How do I made the client booting on it ?
12:59
<gbaman_>
that would require me to remember how to turn it on :)
12:59
Ano: what happens when you run
12:59
ltsp-update-image
13:00
and could you dump your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf contents into a pastebin?
13:00
<Ano>
it's loading stuff for the moment
13:00
I could do that
13:03
<gbaman_>
hmm, might try switching the Raspberry Pi system to NBD
13:04
and Ano actually the command you will need to run to switch to NBD is
13:04
ltsp-update-image --config-nbd
13:07
<Ano>
So I copy / pasting dhcpd it's comming. ltsp-update-image gave me some info about the system and updated tftpboot to i386 architecture, and created some stuff onto the nbd-server
13:07
(some stuf = magic **___**
13:07
<gbaman_>
did it give
13:07
Parallel mksquashfs:
13:07
?
13:08
and then go and slowing compress the image?
13:08
have just decided to try it on my own :)
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13:09
<Ano>
Yes it made that and it's done
13:09
<gbaman_>
ok, then you should now be using NBD
13:09
<Ano>
Cool
13:09
<gbaman_>
it will need to be set in your DHCP config file
13:10
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to be exact
13:10
<Chap_>
I'm still getting unity as the ltsp xsession, even with gnome-fallback set in lts.conf and gnome-session-flashback installed - I also rm'd /usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu.desktop
13:11
<Ano>
So I should make a test again. I mean to boot the client
13:11
<gbaman_>
need to see /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf first
13:11
I dont think the NBD setup script edits it
13:11
<Ano>
Yep I forget sorry
13:11
Ok
13:14
Is it good if i send you the dhcpd.conf in raw ?
13:14
<gbaman_>
if it isnt too many lines?
13:14
might be easier to dump into a pastebin http://pastebin.com/
13:14
<Ano>
Oh I did not mean by irc ^
13:15
<gbaman_>
?
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13:17
<Ano>
http://pastebin.com/RWF0GFsW
13:17
<gbaman_>
hmm
13:17
it isnt set up for NBD
13:18
<Ano>
I meant " can I send you the file raw" not copy / past my dhcp conf here ^^
13:18
Yep
13:18
How should I set it up for NBD ?
13:19
<gbaman_>
a good question :)
13:19
<Ano>
xD
13:19
Ok, I'll search some fucking manuals know
13:19
<gbaman_>
ok, make a copy of the dhcpd.conf file
13:19
and I am going to take a stab in the dark
13:20
<Ano>
done
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13:20
<gbaman_>
change this line "option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";"
13:20
<Ano>
I'll sue you if you ruin my server ^^
13:21
<gbaman_>
to option root-path "nbd:2000:squashfs:ro";
13:21
well it cant break anything :)
13:21
is only DHCP
13:21
there is a reason I got you to make a backup of config file first :D
13:21
then
13:21
service ltsp-dhcpd restart
13:21
give that a go
13:22
<Ano>
Ok just to be sure, could you put between { } what I have to put into the dhcpd.conf file ?
13:22
<gbaman_>
{option root-path "nbd:2000:squashfs:ro";}
13:23
look for the line {option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";}
13:23
i am leaning towards a 5% chance that might work :)
13:23
<Ano>
Yes it is so I replace /opt/ltsp/. . . . By nbd:2000:squashfs:ro true ?
13:23
<gbaman_>
yes
13:23
<Ano>
Do not worry it is my case too ^
13:24
<gbaman_>
really need alksig (who comes on normally in a few hours)
13:24
who knows everything
13:24
i do agree, the documentation for LTSP is very poor
13:24
<Ano>
Yes he is very good
13:24
<gbaman_>
or vagrantc is quite good too
13:25PhoenixSTF has joined IRC (PhoenixSTF!~rudiservo@78.29.155.245)
13:25
<gbaman_>
it blow up?
13:25
<Ano>
Iwait
13:26
Ok wait
13:27
<gbaman_>
hmm
13:27
think it might be wrong, but give it a go anyway
13:27
have found another idea
13:27
<Ano>
The problem here is that I have no ltsp-dhcp service but I wrote include "/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf" into the dhcpd.conf of the default dhcp service
13:28
<gbaman_>
ohh
13:28
<Ano>
I'll try by restarting isc-dhcp server
13:28
<gbaman_>
have a funny feeling that is old
13:28
restart it normally
13:28
ignoring LTSP
13:28
<Ano>
Then I boot the client ?
13:29
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, where did you get that option root-path line from?
13:29
<gbaman_>
a random guide, looks rather old
13:29
have a funny feeling is way off
13:29
<Ano>
huhu ^^
13:30
<gbaman_>
did it blow up ano?
13:30
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, nbd shouldn't require root-path. That's for NFS. The NBD configuration is doing by ltsp-update-image in /var/lib/tftpboot
13:30
*doing -> done
13:30
<gbaman_>
so it isnt defined by DHCP?
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
All your need for NBD is dhcpd configs next-server and filename.
13:31
(which point to tftp)
13:31
<gbaman_>
ignore me then Ano :)
13:31
listen to Hyperbyte :)
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
I know ZIP about Debian though! :)
13:32
<gbaman_>
hahaha, have a funny feeling will be rather similar in this area to Ubuntu
13:32
<Ano>
but it changed a bit now the error message is nfsmount : need a path
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah. What I just said about dhcpd config comes from my Ubuntu server.
13:33
<gbaman_>
ok Ano revert back to the backup of the config file
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, right, because your server is still trying to use NFS.
13:33
<Ano>
'K
13:33cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg)
13:33
<gbaman_>
his dhcpd file Hyperbyte though have "option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";"
13:33
*has
13:34
which is pointing to NFS
13:35
<Ano>
Consequently should I replace it by /var/lib/tftpboot ?
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, no
13:35alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
13:35
<gbaman_>
whew
13:35
alkisg is here
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
root-path is for NFS. If you want NBD, you don't need option root-path.
13:35
<alkisg>
Haha
13:35
<Ano>
^^
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
Heh
13:35* alkisg checks the irclogs...
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
!alkisg
13:35
<ltsp>
alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
13:36
<alkisg>
Hypey, root-path is also for NBD, it defines the NBD share name
13:36
<Ano>
Ok so "#" before root-path
13:36
<gbaman_>
alkisg: simply ano is trying to set up thin clients
13:36
<alkisg>
I.e. [/opt/ltsp/i386] in the .conf file
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, pastebin your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
13:36
<gbaman_>
we were trying with NBD
13:36
image built fine
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, really? I've never used root-path with NBD.
13:36
<gbaman_>
oh and Debian wheezy
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
Debian-only thing?
13:36
<Ano>
I let gbaman_ explains ; I copy / paste
13:36
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: it defaults to [/opt/ltsp/i386] if unset
13:37
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, so it's not needed. :-)
13:37
<alkisg>
Erm, ok
13:37
I have many images, I do need it
13:37
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, but you're special.
13:37
<3
13:37* alkisg always felt special inside :P
13:37
<gbaman_>
now needing to point the clients to booting NBD instead of NFS
13:37
<alkisg>
Is Ubuntu 14.04 out yet?
13:38
<gbaman_>
nope
13:38
well, not on main download page yet
13:39
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, does 14.04 work out of the box with LTSP? :-)
13:39
<gbaman_>
oh, and Ano's dhcpd file http://pastebin.com/RWF0GFsW
13:39
have basically got as far as ltsp-update-image --config-nbd
13:40
<alkisg>
Dunno, it was broken until a week ago but stgraber uploaded the latest upstream patches, so I'm guessing it'll work now
13:40
<Ano>
http://pastebin.com/XUxFAMMC
13:40
<alkisg>
gbaman_: did you change BOOT_METHODS?
13:40
<gbaman_>
no?
13:40
never heard of it
13:40
<Ano>
!ping
13:40
<ltsp>
pong
13:40
<gbaman_>
:)
13:40
<Ano>
thanks x)
13:41
<alkisg>
gbaman_: pastebin your pxelinux.cfg/default, or whatever else your clients are using to get the kernel command line
13:41
<gbaman_>
not mine, Ano's
13:42
although I do want your help for NBD with Pis, that can wait though
13:42
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, change the top lines (default, timeout) from ltsp-NFS to ltsp-NBD
13:42
<alkisg>
Ah, we're helping Ano first? Let me check the irclogs...
13:43
<gbaman_>
:)
13:43
<Ano>
We are dealing with that since two o'clock goog luck ^^
13:43
<gbaman_>
I was summarising everything we have done with Ano so far alkisg
13:43
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, I think if you just edit those two lines, you're set.
13:44
Reboot client afterwards.
13:44
<gbaman_>
where is tftpboot again?
13:44
<Hyperbyte>
/var/lib/tftpboot/
13:44
<gbaman_>
why does everything have to be everywhere with LTSP on linux!
13:44
why cant we use 1 folder...
13:44
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, it's not how Linux works.
13:44
<Ano>
Because there is other people
13:44
<gbaman_>
or even have a page with where everything is!
13:45
a single reference page
13:45
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, Linux uses /usr/ for software, /var/ for data, /etc/ for configuration.. it's same with all other Linux software.
13:45
<gbaman_>
there are lts.conf files everywhere
13:45
<Hyperbyte>
gbaman_, why don't you create one? We have a public wiki.
13:45
<alkisg>
Ano, go ahead with what Hyperbyte suggested about the ltsp-NFS => ltsp-NBD change
13:45
<Hyperbyte>
The Oracle approves!
13:45
All hail alkisg!
13:45* Hyperbyte bows down
13:45
<alkisg>
:P
13:46
<Ano>
I'm rebooting the server then booting client
13:46
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, no!
13:46
Don't reboot server.
13:46
<Ano>
Amen Hyperbyte
13:46
<Hyperbyte>
This is not Windows.
13:46
<alkisg>
I really have to write a good !Hyperbyte factoid...
13:46
<Ano>
Fuck
13:46
<gbaman_>
..
13:46
<Hyperbyte>
Linux you only reboot for a) kernel upgrades or b) hardware upgrades.
13:47
<Ano>
well what could be the problem right now ?
13:47
<gbaman_>
?
13:47
<Hyperbyte>
Well, rebooting doesn't hurt........ but it's not necessary. ;-)
13:47
<alkisg>
BOOT_METHODS is what controls the ltsp-NFS => ltsp-NBD order, we'll get to that if doing it manually makes it work...
13:48
<Ano>
suspens
13:48
<alkisg>
12:44<Ano> Nope my thin clients are under 32 bit 12:44<gbaman_> there goes ltsp-pnp ==> His server is a Pentium D with 1 GB RAM, it can't do 64bit either
13:48
<gbaman_>
he said was 64 bit?
13:48
<alkisg>
Pentium D's are 64 bit?
13:49
...whatever, it's so lame it won't really work as a server for thin clients....
13:49
Installing 64bit or 32bit on it won't make any difference
13:49
<gbaman_>
when did he say was pentium D?
13:49
<alkisg>
Yesterday
13:49
<gbaman_>
ah
13:49
<Ano>
gbaman_: yesterday
13:49
<gbaman_>
should be going down fat client road then
13:49
well
13:50
<alkisg>
Ano: we're waiting for your feedback, after editing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, ok?
13:50
<gbaman_>
if clients are decent
13:50
<alkisg>
Like Hyperbyte said
13:50
He'd need to put RAM to his clients, but yeah that's what I suggested too
13:50
<Ano>
ok I have the same error message than earlier
13:50
<gbaman_>
ok, error being?
13:50
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, pastebin your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default again
13:50
<Ano>
"NFS over TCP not available on -ip.of.the.server"
13:50
http://pastebin.com/XUxFAMMC
13:50
<gbaman_>
this isnt NFS?
13:51
<Ano>
woops that's old default
13:51
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, yeah.. let us see the new one. :)
13:51
<Ano>
ok wait
13:53
<alkisg>
Ano, before trying to switch from NFS to NBD, did you get the clients up and running?
13:53
<gbaman_>
there had been that initial error
13:54
<Ano>
Yes alkisg the client is starting, then taking an ip bye the dhcp and nfs error
13:54
no more the "insert disk a press enter" that I had yesterday
13:54
<alkisg>
Ano: I mean, why switch to NBD? If you couldn't make the defaults in Debian work, you're only making it worse
13:55
NBD makes fat clients faster, it doesn't make much difference for thin clients, and you want to use thin clients
13:55
<Ano>
that is true
13:55
Do you mean that I won't be able to boot the client at all ?
13:56
<alkisg>
I mean you're following the wrong way to troubleshoot this
13:56
<Ano>
Doh ! x(
13:56
<gbaman_>
had assumed that there was a firewall issue or something so thought trying NBD may work instead?
13:56
<alkisg>
If you have problem "A", you first need to solve problem "A", not go with "route B"....
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13:57
<gbaman_>
had also assumed NBD was a simple command to switch :)
13:57
<alkisg>
If everything's working, sure, but switching the boot method might hide the actual problem being anywhere else
13:59
<Ano>
Ok so should I summarized what I've done all the day ? To identify the problem
14:00
<alkisg>
I don't have much time currently... so personally I won't be able to help much... since you've already started with NBD, do what Hyperbyte said....
14:00
Pastebin your new pxelinux.cfg/default etc
14:00
<Ano>
http://pastebin.com/PK9sT9Bx
14:02
<alkisg>
And the client reports a problem with NFS? Does it get a busybox? If yes, what's the output of `cat /proc/cmdline` there?
14:05
<Ano>
all the output ?
14:07
"ro initrd=initrd.img-3.2.0-4-486 init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp boot=nfs BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-486 BOOTIF=macaddress"
14:07
<alkisg>
So the change didn't take effect
14:07
Maybe it's reading some other file, depending on your tftpd...
14:10
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, you did turn off and reboot the client?
14:11
<Ano>
the tftpd service looks running but I do not find conf files
14:11
Hyperbyte: yes many times between each steps we made
14:13
<Hyperbyte>
Ano, on Ubuntu it's /etc/default/tftpd-hpa.conf
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14:13
<Hyperbyte>
Not sure if that's a Ubuntu thing or if Debian does the same.
14:13
You could run find /etc/ -type f -name "*tftpd*"
14:13
Shows all files in the /etc/ config directory with 'tftpd' in the name
14:15
In the config file should be a directory where tftpd finds it's files.
14:16
<Ano>
Thanks for the search command
14:16
although you were right about the localisation in /etc/default/ I seacrhed in /etc/tftp. . .
14:17
I'm reading a report of bug about that problem
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14:17
<MattH_>
Anybody around to help with a confusing edubuntu ltsp sound issue?
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14:19
<Hyperbyte>
!ask
14:19
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
14:20
<Hyperbyte>
:)
14:23
<Ano>
That's better than Mister V
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14:23
<korilius>
hello everyone
14:25
I wanted to stop by and give vagrantc my personal thanks for providing information that allowed my ltsp client to finally boot up.
14:28
<alkisg>
Nice :) vagrantc usually shows up a few hours later
14:28* Ano is full of hope it finally can work
14:28
<Ano>
sorry for my english at this time ^^
14:29
<MattH_>
So here is my question and help needed. I have an ltsp lab that is currently running edubuntu (Ubuntu 12.04.4), around 34 lab machines. We have two servers that controls the labs thin clients. One of our servers is giving us an issue with sound. After doing a couple of standard updates on both the server and chroot, we updated the kernels and the image and restarted our lab. When the machines for one of the servers finally booted up,
14:30
The output is shown as "Dummy output", we have no idea what to do. Since both me and my coworker inherited this lab and only have basic linux understanding.
14:34
<Hyperbyte>
MattH_, pulseaudio has a "dummy output" if it doesn't find or can't access any soundcards.
14:35
MattH_, are you using fat or thin clients?
14:38
<MattH_>
We are using thin clients.
14:39
<Ano>
I found this : https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=519325 and many documentation with the error problem. I'll work on it, correct the bug and finally come back if the bug persists or for the next one.
14:45
<MattH_>
Is there anyway to make pulseaudio find the soundcard or restart the service? We had this same issue with the other server that controls the other half of the ltsp lab, but we updated it and restarted the server and it fixed the issue.
14:45Dave_N has joined IRC (Dave_N!~Dave_N@gateway/tor-sasl/daven/x-18500768)
14:45
<Dave_N>
hello
14:53
<MattH_>
Hyper, we might be running fat clients. I have no idea. Going through a bunch of old notes left from who we inherited it from.
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
MattH_, open a terminal on the client and type "hostname". Do you see the name of the server, or the name of the client (something like ltsp128)?
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15:15
<MattH_>
I get ltsp22 as a hostname. So I'm assuming they are fat clients?
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15:43
<korilius>
Anybody on here that use Debian LTSP with WYSE terminals? Having some trouble getting X to work with a V90
15:43lmds_ has joined IRC (lmds_!~lmds@tui.pi-et-ro.net)
15:43
<korilius>
The V90 boots up fine but gets a scrambled screen with X starts
15:48
<Ano>
good bye ! Thanks for the support
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16:38
<alkisg>
(05:25:32 μμ) korilius: I wanted to stop by and give vagrantc my personal thanks for providing information that allowed my ltsp client to finally boot up.
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16:39
<vagrantc>
aw
16:39* vagrantc has been a bit mia lately
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16:44
<MattH_>
Ok good news. After updating the server that was having issues. Making sure all the services were running and going through a couple pulseaudio troubleshooting guides. It seems that updating again server/chroot, updating the kernel and updating the image, then finally restarting. Finally fixed our issue. We no longer have the dummy output anymore. Its picking up the sound.
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19:42
<gbaman>
hey alkisg and vagrantc here is one for you both, NBD on pis? Worth it?
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19:42
<alkisg>
gbaman: what's the size of the chroot?
19:43deeville has joined IRC (deeville!~deeville@66.97.28.166)
19:44
<gbaman>
apparently about 4gb
19:44deeville has joined IRC (deeville!~deeville@38.117.108.108)
19:44
<gbaman>
dont forget, pis are 100mbit ethernet ports
19:44deeville has joined IRC (deeville!~deeville@38.117.108.108)
19:44
<gbaman>
and I am keeping in mind that it will be schools using this, many being given old networking gear
19:45
am surprised it is that big, but I guess there is a lot in it
19:46
<alkisg>
It sounds like it's worth it
19:46
<gbaman>
does it require any extra processing power on the pi side?
19:46
<alkisg>
Only a bit, worth the trouble
19:46
<gbaman>
ok
19:46
how much does it normally decrease network traffic by?
19:46
roughly?
19:47
<alkisg>
2.5
19:47
<gbaman>
..
19:47
thats impressive!
19:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, x11vnc has an RC bug that would result in epoptes getting removed...
19:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ouch
19:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/epoptes.html
19:48
<alkisg>
They don't plan on fixing it?
19:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the maintainer hasn't commented on the bug last i looked... :(
19:48
appears to be a patch...
19:51
<alkisg>
So the actual issue is that there's no maintainer to apply the x11vnc patch?
19:53* alkisg hopes he'll be able to attend debconf this year, and get enough key signatures to apply for a DM...
19:53* vagrantc too
19:53
<gbaman>
signatures? dm?
19:54
<alkisg>
Yeah my id and passport and everything apparently aren't good enough to certify that it's me...
19:54
So I need to get signatures to my gpg keys in order to do that, before applying to become a debian maintainer...
19:54
<gbaman>
ahh
19:55
so basically real debian maintainers need to actually in person verify you exist and you are who you say you are
19:55
<alkisg>
It does sound silly to me, at least for persons willing to provide all the formal legal papers about their identity
19:55
<gbaman>
yea..
19:55
<alkisg>
Yeah
19:55
<gbaman>
sigh
19:56
ok, so NBD on pis, how does one enable it on the pi side?
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19:56
<gbaman>
I have enabled it on the server
19:56
so I now have a compressed NBD image
19:56
<alkisg>
The client needs this as a kernel parameter: append ro initrd=initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0
19:57
Put it wherever the client gets it kernel cmdline from
19:57
<vagrantc>
edit /opt/ltsp/armhf/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
19:57
<alkisg>
It's usually in pxelinux.cfg/default, no idea about pi
19:57
<gbaman>
that sounds surprisingly easy...
19:57
<vagrantc>
gbaman: you'll also need to update a bunch of stuff
19:57
<gbaman>
..
19:57
ok
19:57
like?
19:58
<vagrantc>
gbaman: ltsp-chroot --arch=armhf /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
19:58
gbaman: ltsp-update-kernels
19:58
gbaman: make sure the pxelinux.cfg files got updated
19:58
gbaman: might have to re-run ltsp-update-image
19:58
<gbaman>
joy
19:59
I currently have this in my cmdline.txt file on sd cards
19:59
boot=nfs init=/sbin/init-ltsp nfsroot=10.0.5.155:/opt/ltsp/armhf
19:59
with 10.0.5.155 being the address of my test server
19:59* alkisg wonders if the PIs get their cmdline from local storage, or from tftp
19:59
<gbaman>
local
19:59
<vagrantc>
oh, then just edit the local thing
20:00
<gbaman>
I do still need to somewhere in the cmdline.txt file tell it the address of the server, right?
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20:00
<alkisg>
Normally no, it does a dhcp for that
20:00
<gbaman>
I did before?
20:01
<alkisg>
Try with this first, if it doesn't work, then you can put the ip too: init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0
20:02
If it doesn't work, *then* add: nbdroot=10.0.5.155:/opt/ltsp/armhf
20:02
But it shouldn't be needed, the best is to keep the cmdline as simple as possible
20:02
So as to have the same cmdline for any arch, without caring about the IP of the server, etc etc
20:02
<vagrantc>
gbaman: looks like a bunch of the firmware files are now shipped in raspbian as a package
20:03
<gbaman>
failed
20:03
<vagrantc>
gbaman: so can probably simplify your build scripts...
20:03
<alkisg>
Message?
20:03
<gbaman>
no init found?
20:03
photographing, 2 sec
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20:04
<alkisg>
You do have ltsp-client installed in the sd card, i.e. the initrd image does have the ltsp-related stuff, like nbd support, right?
20:05
<gbaman>
entire cmdline.txt file
20:05
dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0 console=ttyAMA0,115200 kgdboc=ttyAMA0,115200 console=tty1 init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 elevator=deadline rootwait
20:05
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-4.JPG
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20:07
<alkisg>
OK try adding the nbdroot parameter above ^
20:09
Ah it's because my udhcp script doesn't get triggered on debian without ipappend 3, ok
20:09
<gbaman>
it is finding it
20:09
there we go
20:09
booting :)
20:09
<alkisg>
Cool, start benchmarks :)
20:10
<gbaman>
working on it :)
20:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: you never replied about the "having a scripts/top/ltsp-hack script, that diverts ipconfig to ipconfig.real, and creates an ipconfig wrapper that fixes all those issues like missing NBD rootpath etc" idea... If you'd accept that upstream, I think it would be much more stable that what we currently have...
20:12
The wrapper would basically fill missing values in net-eth0.conf with the defaults
20:12
<gbaman>
interestingly alkisg we still have that 30 second pause..
20:12
<alkisg>
And we could request maks to provide a hook in initramfs-tools to do that more formalyl in the future..
20:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hmmm...
20:12
<alkisg>
gbaman: that's dns related
20:13
<gbaman>
ok?
20:13
NBD 1:37 to login screen
20:13
including a weird 30 second pause
20:13
<alkisg>
gbaman: subtract 30 seconds to all your benchmarks, till you resolve the DNS issues
20:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and it only divertes ipconfig at runtime if we're booting ltsp?
20:14
<alkisg>
Yup
20:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: could also replace the udhcp stuff with it, yes?
20:14
<alkisg>
Yes, I'd like to completely remove the need for udhcp
20:15
The only reason I got into writing that script, was to fill the missing bits from proxydhcp servers or cases like the one gbaman has now
20:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sounds... messy but probably better than what we have.
20:15
<alkisg>
Yes, currently we have very messy code because it tries to bring up network interfaces at the wrong place, before udev is done initializing them
20:15
<gbaman>
:)
20:16
erm?
20:16
<alkisg>
While then we wouldn't care at all about interfaces, we'd only fill in the missing bits and let initramfs tools handle the static/dhcp ips etc
20:16
<gbaman>
1:37 for NBD, 1:39 for NFS...
20:16
<alkisg>
gbaman: launch firefox or libreoffice
20:16
Boot time isn't very important
20:16
Also, are you sure you used compressed nbd?
20:17
Try `du -sh chroot` and `ls -l pi.img`, it should be 2.5 times smaller
20:18
<gbaman>
where is the image stored?
20:18
<alkisg>
/opt/ltsp/images
20:19
vagrantc: what we need is a hook right after ipconfig runs, and before the nfs/nbd script sources net-eth0.conf. Initramfs-tools should provide one (and we should request it), but until it does, we only need the hack in order to produce a hook
20:19
So it's not as messy as it sounds, it's just because initramfs-tools doesn't have that hook
20:19
<gbaman>
1.2G armhf.img
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20:19
<gbaman>
4.1G armhf
20:19
so is smaller
20:19
by quite a bit
20:20
will try libreoffice launching test :)
20:20
<alkisg>
Cool, now time launching firefox/libreoffice
20:20
The first time the test is more accurate, because it doesn't involve caching,
20:21
if you want to test again without cache, you could try: `echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches` on the client before re-launching libreoffice
20:21
(locally, as root)
20:21
<gbaman>
forgot how long libreoffice takes!
20:22
40 seconds on NFS
20:22
<||cw>
you have rpi booting using nbd?
20:22
I'd think as slow as the pi is, that compressed nbd would be slower
20:22
<gbaman>
well thats what we are testing out ||cw
20:23
i may not be able to actually test the main use for NBD
20:23
a classroom
20:23
<alkisg>
What the equivalent of PIs, cpu-wise, in the i386 world? Similar to a Celeron @500 MHz?
20:24
<||cw>
if that
20:24
<gbaman>
it is a tad slow :)
20:24
<alkisg>
Celerons @300+ go faster with nbd than with nfs
20:25
I don't know if the decompressing code is more optimized for i386 vs armhf...
20:25
<gbaman>
there are major optimisations being done for the Pi
20:25
<alkisg>
Recently there was a vast improvement in squashfs decompression, like 2-3 times faster than before, I think we'll see it after 14.04/jessie though :(
20:25
<gbaman>
things like the new maynard desktop, officially announced today http://www.raspberrypi.org/preview-the-upcoming-maynard-desktop/
20:26
thats a pretty fast and fluid looking desktop
20:26
has a long way to go
20:26
but shows what is possible
20:27
WOW!
20:27
libreoffice just loaded with NBD in 17 seconds...
20:27
whaat!
20:27
<alkisg>
Similar to the celerons, good
20:27
<gbaman>
40 seconds on NFS
20:27
daaam!
20:28* gbaman is going to move everything to NBD ASAP
20:28
<alkisg>
You can also use squashfs over NFS
20:28
It would be 10% slower than NBD, which is too little to really notice
20:28
I.e. maybe 19 seconds for libreoffice
20:28
<||cw>
if I'm reading this right, it puts it around a P2 @300 http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/linpack%20results.htm
20:30
<gbaman>
I am proper amazed....
20:30
I think I really should test it with a local pi image too
20:30
<alkisg>
!local-boot
20:30
<ltsp>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
20:30
<ball>
What's a NBD?
20:30
<alkisg>
gbaman: that ^ could help too
20:31
<vagrantc>
then you've gotta maintain all the images locally...
20:31
<alkisg>
It's 1 epoptes command to copy them :)
20:31
<||cw>
gbaman: 100Mbit nic is only about 9MB/s, so if the NAND is faster than that....
20:31
<alkisg>
Less trouble than maintaining regular local pi installations
20:32
gbaman: how many clients do you have? And, gigabit server or not?
20:32
<ball>
Network Boot Device?
20:32
<alkisg>
ball: Network Block Device
20:32
It's the method that Ubuntu uses to send the virtual disk to its clients
20:33
(ltsp clients)
20:36
<gbaman>
sorry, back
20:37
wait, so you recommending storing images locally now?
20:37
<alkisg>
Nope, I don't know your setup, I can't recommend anything
20:37
<gbaman>
would NBD make wifi booting viable btw?
20:37
<alkisg>
(11:32:15 μμ) alkisg: gbaman: how many clients do you have? And, gigabit server or not?
20:37
<gbaman>
It isnt for a single setup
20:38
<alkisg>
OK, answer generally then...
20:38
<gbaman>
it is for classrooms that I have no control over
20:38
<alkisg>
E.g. "about 20 pis, and usually gigabit server"
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20:38
<gbaman>
that
20:38
<alkisg>
So if it's 50 pis, then it's worth it, if it's 10, nope
20:38
<gbaman>
but would be good to account for 100mbit switches
20:38
<alkisg>
For 20... hmm... not worth it unless it's automated
20:39
<gbaman>
as that will be likely
20:39
<alkisg>
For 20 clients and 100 mbit switch, it's worth it
20:39
<gbaman>
what about something like rsync checking?
20:39
<alkisg>
What's the output of `hdparm -t /dev/sdXXX` on the pi SD card?
20:39
<gbaman>
we have an initrd on the sd cards
20:39
ltsp booted pi?
20:39
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter
20:39
hdparm just reports the sd speed...
20:40
The boot method doesn't matter
20:40
The sd card might not be called 'sdXX' though...
20:40
<gbaman>
hmm, will switch to a normal pi sd card
20:41
am booting this pi off a rather old 128mb sd card :)
20:41
<||cw>
did they ever fix the pi's sd interface? used to be stupid slow, even with fast cards. usb flash was faster.
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20:41
<gbaman>
dont think it was fixable?
20:42
guess we will see
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20:43
<||cw>
I should see if I can this pcduino to work as a think client
20:44
<vagrantc>
it's usually /dev/mmcblkN
20:44
pcduino? it's got a board attached to it?
20:45
<gbaman>
hahaha, -bash: hdparm: command not found
20:45
apt getting
20:45
<||cw>
it's an arm board with GPIOs that are more or less arduino compatible
20:46
<gbaman>
pi has the community behind it
20:46
Timing buffered disk reads: 50 MB in 3.01 seconds = 16.59 MB/sec
20:46
thats on one of my main class 10 8gb sd cards
20:47
<alkisg>
That's faster than 100 mbps
20:48
And, 20 clients on a gigabit network can only get up to 50 mbps,
20:48
and 20 clients on a 100 mbps network can only get up to 5 mbps, if they're all asking for data simultaneously
20:48
<gbaman>
is that MB mb or mbit?
20:48
<alkisg>
network speed is usually in bits
20:48
disk speed in bytes
20:48
<gbaman>
ok
20:49
so on gigabit, should be way faster than SD card
20:49
<alkisg>
No, because the pi has 100 mbps
20:49
Which is about 10 MB/sec
20:49
<gbaman>
*gigabit switch
20:49
oh
20:49
<alkisg>
(measuring the network overhead too)
20:50
So... what I want to do, is use dmcache to cache the network traffic that the client reads, locally
20:50
That way there's no need for rsync, and there's no extra network traffic involved for syncing
20:50
<gbaman>
does need us to worry about the SD card
20:50
so will need a blank sd card
20:51
<alkisg>
Not really, the init script just won't set up dmcache if there's no local disk/sd card
20:51
And, it can use an existing card without destroying its contents
20:51
Just creating a block file there
20:51
<gbaman>
ok?
20:51
<alkisg>
That will help ltsp in a *lot* of cases, where there are disks that outperform the local network
20:51
It just remains for someone to write that code... :)
20:52
<gbaman>
installing libreoffice :)
20:52
haha
20:52
libreoffice takes a while :)
20:56
ok, next question
20:56
booting without IP address in parameters?
20:58
<alkisg>
fix your dhcpd.conf
20:58
<gbaman>
not running a DHCP server
20:58
proxydhcp?
20:59
<alkisg>
The initramfs dhcp clients don't understand proxydhcp offers
20:59
<||cw>
dhcp is awesome, you should run one :)
20:59
<alkisg>
Also... I don't know where pi would use proxydhcp
20:59
It doesn't use pxe, does it?
20:59
<gbaman>
nope
20:59
<alkisg>
So why do you have proxydhcp?
20:59
You're not using it...
20:59
<gbaman>
I dont?
21:00
<alkisg>
I don't think that you do... :)
21:00
<gbaman>
was just wondering if you could do it that way
21:00
<alkisg>
Ah, I thought that you said that you used proxydhcp
21:00
What's your dhcp server? A router?
21:00
<gbaman>
yip
21:00
or in many schools, untouchable
21:00
<alkisg>
Same here...
21:01
<gbaman>
haha, normal pi boots in 30 seconds..
21:01
<alkisg>
Currently the only options to omit the server ip address when not using pxe, are: (1) to use AoE, or (2) to write some initramfs script
21:01
<gbaman>
now, it isnt booting to a graphical login screen
21:02
others were about 1:30
21:03
1:30 - weird NDS - 1:00
21:03
<alkisg>
Initramfs adds a significant overhead
21:03
<gbaman>
yea
21:04
and also thinking about it, I also have a 5 second countdown boot switcher in there too
21:04
so would put it at 45 seconds
21:05
testing libreoffice
21:05
18 seconds
21:05
so same as NBD
21:05
that is interesting...
21:06
<alkisg>
Did you drop the caches before launching it?
21:06
Otherwise you risk re-using the data read while installing libreoffice...
21:06
<gbaman>
oh, ok
21:06
how do you drop the cache
21:06
<alkisg>
See the "echo 3 >..." line I wrote you above
21:06* alkisg waves, 'night all...
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21:08
<vagrantc>
SD cards are *slow*
21:09
<gbaman>
vagrantc: I have noticed
21:10
although a lot of that will be the pi processing too
21:15
ok, rebooted pi
21:15
15.5 seconds :(
21:15
still MASSIVE improvement though
21:17
<vagrantc>
local or NBD?
21:19
<gbaman>
local
21:20
that was a normal Raspbian SD card image
21:20
that the Pi foundation provide
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23:21
<Ryan52>
Hey, I'm curious, do any devs know how LTSP handles disabling reboot/shutdown buttons in Unity (Ubuntu) nowadays?
23:23
<vagrantc>
there used to be patches directly in GNOME, perhas the same idea was implemented in unity?
23:23
er, patches to Ubuntu's GNOME, that is
23:26
<Ryan52>
yuck
23:26
vagrantc: I was hoping to find out a more elegant solution, if somebody had found one, but I guess there is not. Thanks! :)
23:29
<vagrantc>
just looking to hide the buttons for some other purpose?
23:29
<Ryan52>
yep
23:29
vagrantc: somebody else was looking for a way, so I thought I might be able to find a solution for them.
23:30
vagrantc: Sergio sas hi
23:30
<vagrantc>
maybe consolekit or something?
23:30
or whatever it's been replaced with, 12 times removed
23:30* vagrantc waves
23:30
<Ryan52>
right