IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 March 2012   (all times are UTC)

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08:24
<wim_>
we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. As far as I know this file should be created automatically. Did something changed since the last update??
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11:45
<epoptes_user1>
Hello
11:47
<elias_a>
Hello
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11:59
<alkisg1>
Hello
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12:24
<vikrant>
HEllo all, When I log out from my Ubuntu session, my screen goes blank and could not get my login screen back...can anyone please help
12:25
<alkisg>
Is that on a thin client using the LDM display manager?
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12:32
<vikrant>
no we r using GDM and consolekit
12:33
<alkisg>
Then this isn't the appropriate channel to ask your question, ask in your distro channel instead
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12:48
<wim_>
Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update??
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13:13
<alkisg>
elias_a: about the webinar, sure, if you wanna do it no problem. I also asked a coworker of mine to be around, since he has more access to stats
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13:26
<elias_a>
alkisg: Great! I will start planning. I will write a Google doc about the questions for you and for public comments. Could you tell me a time that would be good for you on the week starting 9th of April?
13:27* alkisg asks his coworker...
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13:31
<alkisg>
elias_a: Can we start about 10:00 or 11:00 am, some day from Monday to Wednesday that week?
13:31
I think we're on the same timezone, aren't we? GMT+3 on summer time...
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15:00
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I want to blacklist certain kernel modules (sound drivers, actually) for certain thin clients. Any easy way to do this via lts.conf?
15:01
Not sure why I'm asking just alkisg by the way, I guess I'm getting used to just asking the oracle himself for help. :P
15:01
<alkisg>
Hahaha
15:01
<Hyperbyte>
It should be more of a general question of course, to anyone. ;-)
15:02* alkisg needs to disguise himself, using another nickname... :D
15:02
<Hyperbyte>
(you're spoiling me, oracle ;-))
15:02
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: why blacklist them? Aren't they supposed to not get loaded if the hardware isn't available?
15:02
<Hyperbyte>
Oh but it is! And I don't want it.
15:03
<alkisg>
Which hardware is that? pciid?
15:03
<Hyperbyte>
And I don't really want to go the BIOS of 12 thin clients but one to disable onboard sound.
15:03
<alkisg>
Ah
15:03
And rcfile + rmmod doesn't work, I suppose?
15:04
<Hyperbyte>
Haven't tried.
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15:04
<Hyperbyte>
Currently I have the module listed in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf in the image
15:04
However there's one client where I actually -do- want onboard sound to load.
15:04
<alkisg>
You're not using 12.04, are you? :D
15:05
<Hyperbyte>
No?
15:05
It's not out yet, is it? :P
15:05
(officially out)
15:05
<alkisg>
It's in the official ubuntu future repository
15:05
Meh ok lame
15:06
One way to blacklist modules is from the kernel command line
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
Lame that I'm not using 12.04 yet in a production environment? :-o
15:06
<alkisg>
No, lame humor
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
Oh. :P
15:06
<alkisg>
...which isn't really convenient for many clients
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
I was more thinking along the lines of doing the opposite.
15:06
Rather than create one RCFILE which unloads/blacklists the module
15:06
<alkisg>
So you'd need a new lts.conf option
15:06
BLACKLIST_MODULES=xxx
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
I'd prefer creating an RC FILE that perhaps removes the blacklist and loads the module.
15:06
<alkisg>
And then under the one client,
15:07
BLACKLIST_MODULES="' empty
15:07
<Hyperbyte>
Or that, yes. But that doesn't exist, does it?
15:07
Besides, modprobe is done -before- LTSP init scripts are loaded, isn't it?
15:09
<alkisg>
So... first thing to do is file a bug report, so that that option is provided in 12.04
15:09
In 12.04 the ltsp scripts run even before init
15:09
Second thing is to manually implement that for your version :)
15:10
In the old ltsp code, you should probably do that from the initramfs
15:11
So, you could create an /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom script that does it, based on lts.conf values
15:13
Another idea is to let the module load itself, and just fix the sound settings so that the correct card is used
15:14
<Hyperbyte>
Idea I'm currently thinking about is loading the module afterwards, manually
15:14
RCFILE=modprobe snd_hda_intel
15:15
I'm not sure if that honors the blacklist though, or if it can be made to ignore the blacklist
15:15
<alkisg>
You could remove the blacklist from the same rcfile
15:18
<Hyperbyte>
mhmmm
15:18
This could work
15:18
Next question - anything in 11.04 that would prevent a client from loading it's custom mac-based configuration from lts.conf?
15:18
<alkisg>
Don't think so, getltscfg -a will tell you
15:23
<elias_a>
alkisg: I check the timezone.... was away for a while.
15:23
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, yeah, it told me it doesn't load it's own config
15:23
It does load the general config though
15:24
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: pastebin?
15:24
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, can I send you it in private this one time?
15:24
<alkisg>
Sure
15:26
<Hyperbyte>
There...
15:28
Oh gee
15:28
I see it
15:28
That's pretty stupid.
15:28
The client is in there twice with custom config.
15:28* Hyperbyte applies head to flat surface
15:29
<muppis>
Please don't. Flast surface may get some shape.
15:29
-s
15:30
<Hyperbyte>
Funny. In Dutch we have a saying, when you doubt something will happen, that literally says "I have a hard head that'll happen."
15:31
<muppis>
:D
15:31
<highvoltage>
how do you say "hard head" in dutch? in afrikaans it's "hardkoppig" but that usually means stubborn :)
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15:36
<Hyperbyte>
highvoltage, well, it means something like 'being pessimistic in something'
15:36
Having a hard head in something...
15:36
No idea why we say it actually.
15:36
In fact after trying to explain it, I think I might want to stop using it. :\ It makes no sense whatsoever.
15:36
But we say it.
15:38
<elias_a>
highvoltage: Are you in SA?
15:38
Or RSA, I mean.
15:43
alkisg: Yep - same timezone. 10 or 11 am Mo-Wed is perfect. I will start planning.
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15:44
<alkisg>
elias_a: cool
15:44
<elias_a>
alkisg: We should give the sw we are going to use a test run. Maybe some time this or next week?
15:45
<alkisg>
Next week would be better, it would give us more time to prepare it. Which one should we download?
15:45
<elias_a>
alkisg: You need a browser with the evil proprietary flash...
15:45
And preferably a headset microfone.
15:45
<alkisg>
Sure, those are easy
15:45
<elias_a>
Oh - and a webcam.
15:45
<alkisg>
OK
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15:46
<alkisg>
I hope I don't need a haircut...
15:46
<elias_a>
alkisg: Nope. Just do the same as I do. I have a banana and comb my face... :P
15:48
Hyperbyte: If you happen to live in South Africa let's have a chat on the LTSP situation there.
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15:48
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, I happen to live in the Netherlands.
15:48
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: But speak afrikaans?
15:49
<Hyperbyte>
Well, Afrikaans is 50% Dutch.
15:49
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Are you from RSA?
15:49
<Hyperbyte>
No, what gives you these ideas? :-)
15:49
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Yep - close language relatives.
15:50
Hyperbyte: Well - you seemed to know some afrikaans.
15:50
<Hyperbyte>
It's called hardkoppig in Dutch too.
15:50
<elias_a>
People usually have some connection to afrikaans native speakers if they know the language.
15:51
Hyperbyte: Yes - I know.
15:51
Hyperbyte: Sorry to bother you ;-)
15:51
<Hyperbyte>
But no, no relation to native Afrikaans speakers... but I love Afrikaanse musiek. :-)
15:52
I find the language quite fascinating.
15:53
<elias_a>
I love the country.
15:54
It was such a nice surprise that it is not even post apartheid anymore.
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15:55
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, stgraber... all this time I've been using SCREEN_02 when I could've just pressed alt+enter :-(
15:55
<elias_a>
The only ethnic group that misses the past are the redneck, right wing buurs.
15:55
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: that's fix released for 11.04, isn't it?
15:56
<stgraber>
Hyperbyte: ;)
15:56
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I didn't update yet.
15:56
It's much too comfortable pressing alt+enter
15:56
<elias_a>
All other groups develop and lead an active life. Only the lazy rednecks get poorer. And they deserve it :P
15:58
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I've actually never ever updated my chroot
15:59
<alkisg>
Yeah some people are even proud for 1 year uptime, forgetting about security updates that require reboots :)
16:02
<highvoltage>
elias_a: I was
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16:07
<elias_a>
highvoltage: Sorry, you were what?
16:07
<highvoltage>
elias_a: was in south africa
16:07
<elias_a>
highvoltage: Where in RSA?
16:08
<highvoltage>
elias_a: cape town for the most part, but also jo'burg, midrand for a while
16:08
(well, I've been all over)
16:08
<elias_a>
Ok. I was only in joburg and kimberley.
16:09
<highvoltage>
where are you from, elias_a?
16:09
<elias_a>
Should go back but it is a bit tricky now with a new baby.
16:09
highvoltage: Finland.
16:10
Looks like I am going to wash the dishes.
16:10
<highvoltage>
hehe
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16:44
<wim_>
Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update??
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17:17
<alkisg>
wim_: you might want to retry asking later on, when vagrantc's here
17:17
Is something not working? Or it's just an error message?
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17:27
<wim_>
alkisg: normally we connect over ssh -X remote_server to start apps on a remote server. since the last debian updates in chroot we always get this error, so we cannot not start these apps anymore
17:27
i tried already a lot of things, but don't now anymore where to look further
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17:27
<alkisg>
ssh -x? not ltsp_remoteapps?
17:29
<wim_>
no, we are using FAT Clients and can connect over ssh to our remote servers. it was just working fine before and i don't have a clue anymore where to look
17:29
<alkisg>
Ah, you're not using *LTSP* fat clients, but your own custom implementation?
17:30
(it seems like we really need a new name for ltsp fat clients, many times there's confusion about them in this channel...)
17:31
<wim_>
no, just LTSP fat clients configured in lts.conf (LTSP_FATCLIENT=True)
17:36
<knipwim>
alkisg: the wiki will solve all confusion :)
17:36
<alkisg>
Amen :)
17:37
<knipwim>
alkisg: btw, you had a question earlier
17:37
21:29 < alkisg> Ah, knipwim btw we have a grep init=/sbin/init-ltsp.d cmdline in some places in the code
17:37
you know where?
17:39
<alkisg>
knipwim: not sure which ones you might be using, try `grep -r sbin/init-ltsp .` in the source code
17:39
It's possible that you're not using any of the places where it exists
17:39
E.g. ./client/initscripts/ltsp-core
17:40
<knipwim>
not in /sbin/init-ltsp or the init-ltsp.d's
17:40
<alkisg>
Or ./client/update-kernels
17:40
<knipwim>
yes ltsp-core
17:40
but i'm not using that one
17:42
what does client/update-kernels do?
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17:45
<knipwim>
SUB_ARCH also has a default of uname -m :)
17:45
<mnevans>
Hello LTSP world! I lost my usb support on my AMDE-350 client, and would really like it back. I am following the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AMDE-350 and have updated to the current ltspfsd-core_1.1-1_amd64.deb and ltspfsd_1.1-1_all.deb. But no luck. LTSP5, Ubuntu/Maverick 10.10, kernel 2.6.35-32-generic. Planning to go to 12.04LTS on the server next month. Must I just wait?
17:48
<alkisg>
update-kernels is ran on the client kernel postinst hook, to generate the ltsp nbi and yaboot etc images
17:49
<knipwim>
ahh
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17:49
<knipwim>
that explains a lot
17:49
i always wondered where in the install process of ubuntu/debian this was done
17:53
<mnevans>
On step 4 of DebugLocalDev, I get the error: ERROR connecting
17:53
Error: /tmp/.mnevans-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
18:03
Anyone running a 64-bit client and not having this problem?
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18:14
<alkisg>
apt-get dist-upgrade in my 12.04 fat chroot is very very slow, with no apparent reason (no high CPU usage etc)... I even see dpkg in 'D' (uninterruptible sleep) state in top, has anyone experienced anything similar?
18:15
<mnevans>
Anyone? Stgraber? Alkisg? Mgariepy? Bueller? :-D
18:15
<alkisg>
mnevans: no idea, I'm not using localdevs
18:20
<mgariepy>
i don't have 64bit client sorry
18:21
<mnevans>
Thanks alkisg, I remember that. Thanks mgariepy. I googled the problem and found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/415952 but the fix is to upgrade to ltspfsd_1.1-1. Which I have...
18:22
Maybe I need to upgrade from ltspfs 1.0-1 to 1.1-1 on the server?
18:24
<knipwim>
you could always try and find out, couldn't hurt to upgrade i reckon
18:28
<vagrantc>
there weren't really any changes server-side for 1.0 -> 1.1, if i remember coorrectly
18:28
<mnevans>
OK - why the *^%#&^ not. Installed ltspfs1.1-1 and dependencies (libc6, libc-bin). Installed ok. Now to reboot the server and client.
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18:29
<vagrantc>
uh.
18:30
<knipwim>
reboot the server?
18:30
<||cw>
heh
18:30
he thinks it's windows!
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18:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc: to detect if an ltsp boot was requested, we currently check for: grep -Eqsw "init=/sbin/init-ltsp|ltsp" /proc/cmdline
18:41
...which is redudant, because "ltsp" also covers "init-ltsp". Since afaik no distro is currently using "ltsp" in its command line, maybe we can rewrite that to something better?
18:41
E.g. "grep -qs init=/sbin/init-ltsp", which also cover's Gentoo's "real_init=/sbin/init-ltsp", and if someone doesn't want to use the new init system, he can do e.g. "fake_init=/sbin/init-ltsp" ?
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18:47
<wim_>
Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update?? Anyone an idea
18:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it should be '[whitespace]ltsp[whitespace]'
18:50
alkisg: but yes, i remember looking at that and thinking it needed to be improved.
18:50
alkisg: i don't know all the use-cases... can't spend much time on it today.
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18:52
<mnevans>
I'm back after a server reboot. Installed ltspfs1.1-1, no change in behavior of usb stick.
18:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why use grep instead of the while read trick, anyways?
18:54
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ok the method doesn't matter much, grep is more readable, while is faster... it's what we grep for that matters though
18:54
<mnevans>
...but now the apt-get is unhappy about presence of new libc6 and libc-dev-bin
18:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i thought grep was slower ... i don't remember though, we've switched back and forth on this so many times over the years.
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18:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: grep is indeed slower, but it's also smaller, so we can check for "if an ltsp boot was requested" in a single line
18:57
I don't think it's worth the added complexity to use "while / read", at least until we cache the result in a /var/cache/ltsp/ file so that we're able to quickly source it from other scripts later on
18:57
(e.g. set it from initramfs or init-ltsp.d, source it from ltsp-core)
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19:19
<mnevans>
Well, I almost broke my system by going to ltspfs1.1-1 from 1.0-1, b/c of dependencies on libc6 and libc-bin... back to where I was. Still no usb support. Done for the day... thanks all.
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19:26
<knipwim>
vagrantc: what are your thoughts about creating /functions/$distro dirs for the distro specific functions
19:27
like ltsp-vendor-functions, ltsp-update-image-functions etc
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19:46
<vagrantc>
knipwim: i like the general idea
19:49
<knipwim>
but the actual implementation is a question
19:50
i was just preparing a message for the mailing list
19:50
<vagrantc>
i like "ltsp-vendor-functions" style things, then it doesn't require distro detection- each distro just installs something different to the same place.
19:51
alternately, if there could be a .d infrastrcture ...
19:51
ltsp-update-image-functions.d/
19:51
then a distro could drop a huge file in there, or a few little files, their call.
19:52
though one function per file would make it easier for distros to share (i.e. ubuntu and debian often have similar needs, but fedora, suse, gentoo might be a bit more different)
19:53
although maybe .d dirs could be assembled at build time rather than runtime.
19:53
<knipwim>
yeah, using little files is most practical for ubuntu-debian
19:54
instead of having multiple overwrites, src common, then debian, then ubuntu for instance
19:54
and also in the .d solution, each distro can package that as if it were common
19:54
so no distro detection needed
19:58
ah, that's what you said
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20:11
<epaphus>
Hello. How can I check if this motherboard and its video is compatible with ltsp? http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-E350M1-Dual-Core-Mini-ITX-Motherboard/dp/B004KABOZG/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332266740&sr=1-5
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20:12
<epaphus>
It is the new series of low power motherboard combo.
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20:14
<muppis>
epaphus, as my experience from ati/amd radeon chipsets, getting a smooth video playback with that can be pain.
20:14
<epaphus>
muppis, why so? slow?
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20:17
<muppis>
epaphus, can be almost everything what you can imagine. I tcan run fine, if you don't try closed source (fglrx) drivers at all, but everything is done by cpu then.
20:18
Hopefully things has changed to better since last test.
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20:22
<epaphus>
Thanks muppis
20:22
Anybody here know about the VMView ? is it similar to ltsp in some way?
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20:48
<||cw>
epaphus: not at all
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20:49
<||cw>
with View you are connected to full virtual machine, either dedicated for the user or created dynamically from a template
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21:19
<mgariepy>
!tell alkisg to take a look at commit #2143 in ltsp-trunk to fix server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client script as well.
21:19
<ltsp>
mgariepy: Error: I haven't seen alkisg, I'll let you do the telling.
21:20
<mgariepy>
!tell alkisg to take a look at commit #2143 in ltsp-trunk to fix server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client script as well.
21:20
<ltsp>
mgariepy: Error: I haven't seen alkisg, I'll let you do the telling.
21:24
<highvoltage>
lier.
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21:49
<alkisg>
highvoltage: hello there, any progress on ldm-lubuntu-theme?
21:50
mgariepy: thanks, will do so tomorrow
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