IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 March 2010   (all times are UTC)

01:10* alkisg succeeded in sending commands to the clients _and_ receiving output, both to root+the user session, using a bash-based command server on the clients and a bash/openbsd-inetd based listener on the server! Finally! :)
01:17
<cyberorg>
alkisg, http://www.novell.com/documentation/nlpos9/?page=/documentation/nlpos9/nlpos9_admin/data/bv39ac1.html
01:18
<alkisg>
cyberorg: thanks, but I think I really got it right, with encryption and everything
01:18
I'm using LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-L 9570:localhost:9570" in lts.conf to securely pass the commands to the client sessions
01:19
<cyberorg>
cool :)
01:19
<alkisg>
And I'm also able to get binary output, e.g. thumbnails of the client screen
01:19
And all that in bash (it has native tcp support)! I've never been too fond of bash, but now I changed my mind! :)
01:20
On the server I'm using openbsd-inetd, which is already there - so all that's needed are 2 small bash scripts...
01:20
...and the commands are sent by a file socket, which can even support file-based authentication...
01:20* alkisg goes on to package this as "sch-ltsp-server/client" :)
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01:51
<alkisg>
moldy, if you're interested, I'd like to hear your opinion on how to package this so that it's useful for other setups, not just greek schools...
01:52
I'm thinking two packages: ltsp-cmd-server / ltsp-cmd-client, and a ltsp-cmd-send binary which the admin will use to send commands to the terminals or the users
01:52
E.g. `ltsp-cmd-send pc12 poweroff` or `ltsp-cmd-send user123 get-screenshot`
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07:04
<Q-FUNK>
re
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07:05
<alkisg>
!localdev
07:05
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "localdev" :: (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
07:16
<Q-FUNK>
ogra! :)
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07:34
<Ctek>
hi guys, can someone give me some info regarding a "fat client" setup ?
07:36
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
07:37
<Ctek>
alkisg :) thank , i did parse that :)
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07:37
<alkisg>
Ctek: ah, you mean some specific info/question? Sure, shoot
07:37
<Ctek>
the info i was looking is to diskuss some points that i do not fully understand :)
07:38
I have setup the server with nfs, tftp, syslinux etc
07:38
i did a install on a client then copied the / into the tftp server under /ubuntu
07:38
exported ok, edited the fstab (i hope correctly) but ... still no luck
07:39
<alkisg>
What distro/version is this?
07:39
<Ctek>
kubuntu 9.10
07:39
but i have tried also ubuntu
07:39
karmic and hardy
07:39
<alkisg>
There's no upstream fat client support in hardy
07:40
<Ctek>
the problem that i see ... is that when it boots the fstab is not loading correctly the root
07:40
<alkisg>
You don't need to modify fstab
07:40
You just need to put NFS_HOME=/home in lts.conf
07:40
<Ctek>
although when the console apears in the midddle of the boot proces the root is /
07:40
:) it dosen't go that far in the boot process
07:40
it says that the root cannot be mounted or found
07:40
<alkisg>
Do you have stgraber's ppa in your sources? what ltsp version do you have?
07:41
dpkg -l ltsp-server and sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ltsp-client
07:41
<Ctek>
i don't use ltsp, i just want to use fatclient (or maybe i'm not explaining corectly wat i want to do)
07:42
<alkisg>
Ctek: fat clients are based on ltsp
07:42
<Ctek>
i think i hould start all over again from the start :) sorry if i did not explain corectly
07:42
<alkisg>
You can't use the ltsp fat client method without installing ltsp...
07:42
OK, go ahead
07:43
<Ctek>
I did tried LTSP setup and "Fat client setup" but that did not work as expected, if you remember from last week :)
07:43
so... now i tried the "diskless" option
07:43
<alkisg>
Nope, I don't remember anyone trying fat clients and not getting them working...
07:43
<Ctek>
this is wat i'm tring now ... to boot and run a diskless
07:44
the discution was about puting LTSP into eBox, you did point me to some neat stuff but i switched the work in diskless direction
07:46
anyway, between diskles and fat are indeed some major differences but if you can make me understand on how the fstab and other files sould be modified... to make it work :)
07:46
<alkisg>
What do you mean "diskless"? Fat clients *are* discless
07:46
How are you planning on booting the clients?
07:46
<Ctek>
diskless is to boot the SO from a server without loading the server with compute processess
07:46
from pxe
07:46
<alkisg>
That's fat client
07:47
My kid is playing games in a laptop beside me that does not have a hard disk
07:47
It's not a thin client, it's a fat client served by ltsp
07:47
<Ctek>
in the docs there ware some differences but i also tink that they are related
07:47
but in your setup the laptop is using the same so as the server ?
07:48
in diskless client setup you could serve with pxe any so (in theory)
07:48
<alkisg>
What is "so"? Do you mean "os"?
07:48
The fat client is served with pxe
07:48
<Ctek>
yes :) in my lang it is reverse
07:49
<alkisg>
You can't use the same os. You don't want two servers...
07:49
You don't want to load nfs server, nbd server, pxe server etc on the client
07:49
<Ctek>
:)
07:50
correct, you are right
07:50
that's why i did install kubuntu on the client and then cp to the share folder in server
07:50
<alkisg>
A, so you're trying to invent your own method?
07:50
That also won't work. :)
07:50
<Ctek>
but the thing is that the "repair console" apears in the middle of the boot process
07:51
<alkisg>
If you invest a few months on your method, you'll come up with a new ltsp implementation
07:51
<Ctek>
i tried to install with debootstrap but that only made things worse ...
07:51
<alkisg>
All that you're trying to do is what ltsp does
07:52
<Ctek>
yes but wit ltsp i did have a load of 75 % on the cpu with 1 client
07:52
<alkisg>
With fat clients you won't have any load at all
07:52
<Ctek>
i indeed have a lousy server but when serving only nfs i have 0.8 % load
07:52
<alkisg>
As everything will be processed by the client.
07:53
<Ctek>
yes that's what i want also :)
07:53
<alkisg>
Do read the wiki page I linked above. I believe it's *exactly* what you're looking for.
07:53
<Ctek>
ok, now sumarising what i have explain until now, do you think that it is a fstab problem? i do not export the / correctly or what can it be ?
07:54
<alkisg>
No, I need it's a "you didn't implement diskless workstations" problem
07:54
<Ctek>
i did modify the / to be rwx to nobody
07:54
<alkisg>
You'll need a few months of coding to get it working
07:54
<Ctek>
:)
07:55
so... diskless booting is to hard to make it work..... ?
07:55
<alkisg>
LTSP needed 10 years to get diskless booting working
07:55
That's exactly what ltsp is for
07:56
So if you want to reinvent it, go ahead, but don't expect it to work by just changing fstab...
07:56
<Ctek>
no, of course i do not want to reinvent the LTSP ... :)
07:57
but diskless booting was working before LTSP...
07:58
<alkisg>
Yes, but that was before all those services that do not work with a plain nfs root
07:58
<Ctek>
no offence to LTSP users/developers, but i wanted a more simple aproach to the problem:)
07:58
<alkisg>
Live CD booting has casper to deal with exactly those problems - that the services are not designed to work with a read only system
07:59
Ctek: I tried what you're trying now this summer. I even succeeded in booting the client over nfs
07:59
<Ctek>
hm... you might be right with this, i did not see this ....
07:59
<alkisg>
I named the project "twin clients" because it was using the root of the server, not a separate virtual disk
07:59
Then I got hit by all those services that had problems
08:00
After solving the first 5-10 problems, I realized I was reinventing ltsp...
08:00
<Ctek>
:)
08:00
<alkisg>
So I invested in ltsp fat clients instead. And it's working fine, no server cpu load at all.
08:01
<Ctek>
ok, from what you are sayng i deduce that i had a faulty LTSP - fat client setup with taht load on the srv...
08:01
<alkisg>
You didn't have a fat client setup at all
08:01
If the server has any load, you're using thin clients, not fat
08:01
For each connected fat client, I only have 1 ssh process, the logon process
08:02
Nothing else. No processes/cpu load at all.
08:03
<Ctek>
if you do not mind can you summarise the steps here (trust me i did read all the docs, but maybe explained i can see what i did miss)
08:03
if you do not mind, ofcourse
08:04
<alkisg>
I've written that page exactly for this purpose: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
08:04
If you follow that one, from the "preparation" and below, you'll have a working fat client setup
08:05
If at any step you feel that something's not working, ping me
08:05
I've tried that with ubuntu/edubuntu, but it should work with all *buntu variants
08:05
<Ctek>
okay, i'l start from scratch again :) Anyway, Thank you for the time and pacience you had with me
08:06
:)
08:06
<alkisg>
np
08:06
<Ctek>
maybe to someone who understand this it can be boring or seem dumb but i did needed to discuss with someone else beside myself :D
08:07
I'll let you know about the status of the "Experiment" :)
08:08
<alkisg>
If that's a home setup, I'd suggest Lucid
08:08
If it's a production setup, Karmic...
08:08
<Ctek>
it will be in production finaly so i stik with karmic
08:08
<alkisg>
ok
08:08
<Ctek>
although the server that i have has hardy on it :)
08:09
<alkisg>
That won't do
08:09
<Ctek>
??
08:09
<alkisg>
You need lsp-server 5.2
08:09
<Ctek>
:((
08:09
<alkisg>
Fat client support was introduced in ltsp 5.2
08:09
There are backports for karmic, but not for hardy
08:10
<Ctek>
ok, now a bunch of #$#@* just run trough my mind explaining the load i had on the server
08:10
<alkisg>
(so if you tried with hardy, I'm pretty certain you didn't get fat clients working :))
08:10
<Ctek>
exactly ...
08:10
how stupid can I get not top see this
08:10
<alkisg>
"This page is specific to Ubuntu versions 9.10, 10.04" :)
08:11
<Ctek>
right, right and right again to you, and wrong, wrong and wrong on my....
08:12
you were right about fat, and i was wrong to miss taht sentince ....
08:13
ok, now it should explain some of my problems, not to look for excuses, but reading so many docs i think i did not take into consideration taht warning in the begining...
08:13
The question is .... Can I install LTSP 5.2 over my distro ?
08:14
<alkisg>
You'd need to backport it yourself
08:15
<Ctek>
hm... i already know the answer to this :D
08:15
<alkisg>
It would take experience and some development skills to do that :)
08:15
So I guess you could try it on Lucid, get it ready, and update your hardy to lucid in a month that will come out?
08:16
<Ctek>
none of that in large quantities on my behalf, beside some tweaks and some lines of code, nothing to fancy...
08:17
But, i think i can make it work on having two servers ... the problem is that the LTSP clients wil have to authenticate against the Main LDAP server ....
08:17
<alkisg>
No problem there
08:17
<Ctek>
but that's a long way before that happens
08:18
I mean, i should test before and see that i do reach the point where i have the server and the clients working flawlesly
08:20
ok, i'll start today and keep you posted if i do reach some working point :)
08:20
<alkisg>
OK
08:20
<Ctek>
thank you for info and support
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08:21
<alkisg>
You're welcome.
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10:07
<moldy>
alkisg: sounds fine for me
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15:33
<jammcq>
ogra_cmpc: ping
15:35
I'm at a Lucid bugjam and i'm trying to get my 3g evdo wireless device to work
15:36
but since they dropped HAL, i don't know what file to find the device mapping
15:43
<ogra_cmpc>
jammcq, likely some udev rule that modemmanager ships (guessing here)
15:45
<jammcq>
ogra_cmpc: hmm, possibly in /lib/udev/rules.d ?
15:45
that's where I'm looking now, but not finding a map of usb devices
15:46
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah, likely, havce a look at modemmanager
15:46
<jammcq>
look at? not sure what you mean. docs? run a program?
15:46
my experience with lucid so far has lasted about 10 minutes
15:47
not familiar with all the new goodies yet
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15:48
<ogra_cmpc>
dpkg -L modemmanager
15:49
and see if it ships any rules files
15:49
if not, check dmesg if the kernel properly recognizes the device at all
15:49
all low level hal functionallity moved either into kernel or udev
15:50
all high level hal functionallity moved one level up (i.e. for xorg into the xinput drivers)
15:51
<jammcq>
according to the dpkg -L, there's a couple 77-mm-X files, but when I go looking in /lib/udev/rules.d, those files aren't actually there
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15:54
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, i see them here
15:55
<jammcq>
hmm
15:57
holy crap, it works !
15:57
<ogra_cmpc>
what did you do ?
15:57
<jammcq>
this little usb device is actually 2 devices. it's a 3g modem and a USB flash drive
15:58
<ogra_cmpc>
ah, silly windows driver partition ?
15:58
<jammcq>
in the past, I'd have to edit 2 files. one in /etc/udev/rules.d, to tell it to eject the storage device
15:58
then, it appears as a modem
15:58
<ogra_cmpc>
i have a wlan stick with such crap
15:58
<jammcq>
so i added a new connection in Network manager (maybe modem manager), and it appeared as a choice
15:59
<ogra_cmpc>
heh
15:59
<jammcq>
I used to have to edit 2 files. the udev file, and then a hal file to add the 0x5030 device id
15:59
but apparently, I don't need to add that entry anymore, cuz it's being recognized automatically now
15:59
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
15:59
<jammcq>
so... it's actually freaking working :)
15:59
<ogra_cmpc>
send flowers to asac :)
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16:00
<jammcq>
heh
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16:00
<ogra_cmpc>
he maintains NM and friends
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16:00
<jammcq>
cool
16:00
now, I'll play with nm-openvpn plug-in, see if that works any better
16:00
<ogra_cmpc>
(as well as firefox etc ... and he's my tech lead in mobile)
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