LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 August 2019   (all times are UTC)

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04:41
<alkisg>
OK I think it'll be easier to do it like vagrantc said, regexp for matching the usernames, and not support USER_TO_PASS mapping at all.
04:41
So users: a1-01, a1-02.., b1-01, b1-02..., should have a common password like "1234", and not their usernames as passwords, and then ltsp.conf would have this:
04:41
PASSWORDS_FOR_STUDENTS="^[a-z][-0-9]*/cGFzc3dvcmQK"
04:41
So the documentation would be: PASSWORDS_x is a blank separated list like "regexp1:base64pass1 regexp2:base64pass2" that matches usernames and sets passwords
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10:25
<Hyperbyte>
While I do appreciate all feedback you guys have given regarding remote syslog and NBD swap, and while I have learned some new things from it, it doesn't actually help me further.
10:25
<alkisg>
!netconsole
10:25
<ltsp>
netconsole: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki/netconsole
10:26
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: this could help ^
10:26
<Hyperbyte>
The problem remains I have a lot of clients completely freezing, while they have 4GB ram. I agree they shouldn't need to swap, but I'm grasping at straws and just want to investigate if that has anything to do with it.
10:26
<alkisg>
It's a "better remote syslog", that works for kernel panics too
10:26
So you should be able to see if it's ram or graphics driver related etc
10:27
<Hyperbyte>
AFAIK one of the most common reasons any Linux workstation just locks up completely, is running out of RAM. And people have mentioned it seems to be related to how many tabs they have open in their browser.
10:27* Hyperbyte reads :-)
10:28
<Hyperbyte>
As extra info, I have asked people to press ctrl+alt+f1 and ctrl+alt+f2 to look for any messages if their workstation freezes, but they said the workstations don't react to the keys even
10:28
<alkisg>
Sounds like kernel panic all right
10:28
It could also be hardware; e.g. temperature can lock CPUs
10:29
<Hyperbyte>
I actually also, besides ram, suspect network cables. I haven't ran the network cables myself and they're not the most professional installation, to say it mildly.
10:29
<alkisg>
If you're using NFS, cables shouldn't matter
10:29
<Hyperbyte>
How do fat clients behave if their network connection is lost?
10:29
<alkisg>
If you're using NBD, they do
10:29
<Hyperbyte>
NBD, Ubuntu 18 default.
10:29
<alkisg>
I wrote in the mailing list that it's recommended to use squashfs over nfs
10:29
And many people did switch
10:30
(in ltsp5; while the new ltsp19 doesn't even support nbd)
10:30
<Hyperbyte>
I haven't made any concious decision about it. Just the default.
10:30
<alkisg>
OK; try to change it, it may help
10:30
<Hyperbyte>
Gladly.
10:30
<alkisg>
E.g. if you play with cables and nbd, you get kernel panics
10:30
if you play with cables and nfs, you hang iowaits, which get properly resolved when you re plug the cable
10:31
<Hyperbyte>
I think thin clients just go on right?
10:31
With nbd, if you pull the cable shortly.
10:31
<alkisg>
ssh and xorg usually die
10:31
<Hyperbyte>
I mean, the main OS chrashes, but the remote X session stays active. At least that's what I've found.
10:31
<alkisg>
nbd can survive for a bit, or can get kernel panic
10:31
nfs survives
10:31
<Hyperbyte>
Anyway. How do I switch? :-)
10:32
<alkisg>
Hrm let me find it...
10:32
!nfs
10:32
<ltsp>
nfs: to enable NFS home directories for localapps and fat clients, install nfs-kernel-server on your server, nfs-common on your client (don't forget ltsp-update-image), and put this in lts.conf: FSTAB_1="server:/home /home nfs defaults,nolock 0 0"
10:32
<alkisg>
!nbd
10:32
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'nbd', but I do know about these similar topics: 'disable-nbd-proxy', 'nbd-proxy', 'nbd-compression', 'quick-nbd-tests', 'nbd-client', 'nbd-server-bug', 'nbd-trusty-bug', 'nbd-client-breaks-nm', 'nbd-bug', 'nbd-checkupdate'
10:32
<Hyperbyte>
I'm running LTSP 5.18.12
10:32
<alkisg>
!squashfs
10:32
<ltsp>
Error: "squashfs" is not a valid command.
10:32
<alkisg>
!nfs-
10:32
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'nfs-', but I do know about these similar topics: 'nfs'
10:32
<Hyperbyte>
Is that the right version?
10:32
I added ts.sch.gr/ppa/ubuntu ppa
10:32
<alkisg>
5.18.12+t201905250652~ubuntu18.04.1 from the ppa
10:33
<Hyperbyte>
Yep ok, that's the one.
10:33
Should I remote ltspfsd and ltspfsd-core packages? Those are version 1.5.2 still
10:34
Rest is all 5.18.12+etc
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10:35
<alkisg>
You don't need to do anything specific as long as you have the ppa and apt updated
10:35
<Hyperbyte>
OK good.
10:35
Then on to squashfs/nfs :-)
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10:37
<alkisg>
Meh, ltsp-discuss hides its content very well :D
10:38
!learn squashfs-over-nfs as https://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/message/36669125/
10:38
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
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10:46
<Hyperbyte>
From that, you say to modify /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.cfg/default lines 13-14
10:46
Can't I just change "default ltsp-NBD" to "default ltsp-NFS" ?
10:50
Or maybe change the default via /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf ?
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11:22
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: no, these won't work, as "squashfs-over-nfs" isn't the same as "nfs", it's a new entry that doesn't exist in pxelinux.cfg/default
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12:06
<Hyperbyte>
Okay.
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12:18
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, what happens when you run ltsp-update-image and there are logged in clients? I presume the file handles to the old image will stay active and the old file will remain active until the last client logs out? And only new ones use the new image?
12:18
<alkisg>
Right
12:18
And if you delete the old file, it disappears but still wastes space until the last user disconnects
12:20
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, okay
12:20
Also, your trick of removing the 'default' symlink doesn't work
12:20
<alkisg>
You might have misunderstood it, it works
12:21
<Hyperbyte>
ltsp-update-kernels re-creates the symlink and in fact deleted my changes to "default". I suppose I could lsattr +i it
12:21
<alkisg>
You need to copy ltsp to default
12:21
No edit ltsp and delete the symlink
12:21
*not
12:21
<Hyperbyte>
I did. rm -f default cp ltsp default nano default make changes, save... ltsp-update-kernels everything is back to what it was.
12:23
<alkisg>
if [ ! -f "$tftpboot/$name/pxelinux.cfg/default" ]; then
12:23
ln -sf ltsp "$tftpboot/$name/pxelinux.cfg/default"
12:23
fi
12:23
This clearly shows that the symlink only happens if the default file isn't there
12:23
Although, it might get deleted if it still has the "regenerated" notice :)
12:23
<Hyperbyte>
See PM for link with terminal output
12:24
Well there you go. :-D
12:24
Nope. Removed the "re-generated" comments on top, still gets regenerated
12:24
<alkisg>
In all of the file
12:24
Not just on top
12:24
<Hyperbyte>
Hmm
12:25
Yep, that seems to be it.
12:26
:-)
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16:19dietrich is now known as enaut
16:21
<enaut>
hey all, I noticed with the new ltsp: ltsp --help does not work (yet).
16:22
<alkisg>
enaut: it does; what's the exact command?
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16:22
<alkisg>
It's: ltsp --help applet, NOT: ltsp applet --help
16:22
Or plain ltsp --help
16:24
<enaut>
https://gist.github.com/enaut/421f2cb7ec38c43a126d6224752714c3
16:24
thats what it does.
16:24
<alkisg>
enaut: you copied it without installing it?
16:24
<enaut>
same without sudo
16:25
<alkisg>
Did you install the .deb package, or just copied the directory?
16:25
<enaut>
no I added the ppa according to the install page
16:26
<alkisg>
Hrm then it sounds like the man pages are not registered correctly
16:26
The --help does man ltsp | grep something
16:26
enaut: thanks, I'll check it and upload a fix tomorrow
16:27
enaut: wait, are you trying this on the server or on a client?
16:27
<enaut>
alkisg: its on the server.
16:28
<alkisg>
OK, then yeah man is broken; I'll fix it tomorrow
16:28
<enaut>
man ltsp does not work either
16:30
<ogra>
told ya ... you should be using woman pages, they are more graceful than man pages ;)
16:30
<alkisg>
ogra: no no no they're too chatty. You'd ask "how do I update the image" and they'll tell you about all the neighborhood chit chat before admitting that they don't know what you're talking about
16:31
<ogra>
LOL
16:33* vagrantc facepalms
16:34
<alkisg>
enaut: ok got it; in ltsp.manpages I have the old man/ path instead of the new docs/ path
16:34
<enaut>
ok
16:34
<alkisg>
So they're not even included in the .deb package
16:35
ty
16:35
<enaut>
thanks for fixing
16:36
<alkisg>
enaut: I'm sending a build to the ppa, it should arrive in 10 minutes or so...
16:36
<enaut>
np
16:39
<alkisg>
enaut: which desktop environment are you using btw?
16:39
<enaut>
default ubuntu... so gnome3
16:40
<alkisg>
OK great, I'm testing more with mate, and only a bit with buster-gnome/bionic-gnome, so it's nice to have someone test a lot with gnome too
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16:42
<enaut>
I've got 2 weeks till end of summer holidays until then I'm testing if I use the new one in production (classes age 16 to 17).
16:43
<alkisg>
enaut: if you need something that is not in the ltsp.conf man page, tell me to put it in the priority list
16:44
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I've heard back that clients reboot successfully. Presumably they're using squashfs/nfs then, but I can't access the clients remotely and haven't seen if they are actually using squashfs or not. So to be continued. I'll let you know if this fixes the freeze issues.
16:44
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: vnc to server, epoptes to clients. Old tricks ;)
16:44* alkisg is actually using reverse vnc over ssh
16:45
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I actually have an openvpn to this installation active here at all times.
16:45
<alkisg>
Then it should be really easy to get access to the clients
16:45
<Hyperbyte>
I could just start vncserver on the clients, or enable sshd, but I just haven't done it. :-)
16:46
<alkisg>
!epoptes
16:46
<ltsp>
epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
16:46
<alkisg>
Why not epoptes? We developed it just for that
16:46
And it only needs 2 MB RAM, extra light
16:46* Hyperbyte shrugs
16:47
<Hyperbyte>
I haven't tried it.
16:48
<alkisg>
Your loss ;)
16:49
<enaut>
I'm currently looking for the /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes... I think it's /etc/ltsp/image.excludes now?
16:50
<alkisg>
enaut: not exactly; now it's in /usr/share..., and you only create /etc/ltsp/image.excludes if you want to remove entries from the default one
16:50
While if you want to add entires, I have a local file... let me see the man page...
16:51
/etc/ltsp/image-local.excludes
16:51
And the upstream one is in /usr/share/ltsp/server/image/image.excludes
16:52
This allows us to send new ltsp versions with more entries, while respecting the local user additional entries
16:52
<enaut>
ah ok so image.excludes would overwrite the default excludes...
16:52
<vagrantc>
but to remove entries you have to overwrite all of them?
16:52
<alkisg>
Yes
16:53
The main idea is that usually people want to add, not remove; if one wants to remove, ok, let him do what we did in ltsp5
16:53
<vagrantc>
not worth adding an .includes ?
16:53
<alkisg>
How's that?
16:54
<vagrantc>
rather than overwriting all the defaults, the ability to override only specific things
16:54
<alkisg>
How?
16:54
<vagrantc>
adds a lot of complexity, though
16:54
<alkisg>
How can you tell mksquashfs "omit line 5 from the .excludes file?"
16:54
Yeah I couldn't think of an easy interface for that
16:54
<vagrantc>
worst case, by regenerating the excludes file
16:54
<enaut>
I wouldn't do that...
16:54* vagrantc nods
16:54
<alkisg>
Yes, but how would the user define that he wants to omit line 5
16:55
Since it's a regexp, not something easy to define an override for
16:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you don't do it by line, you do it by files
16:55
<enaut>
if someone wants to include he can just copy it over
16:55* alkisg isn't sure what vagrantc has in mind
16:55
<alkisg>
We ship 20 lines; we'd change that to 20 files?
16:55
<vagrantc>
no
16:56
rsync has an option to both exclude and include files, for example
16:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah, but mksquashfs doesn't
16:56
Sure I'd love it if the syntax was rsync-compatible, but it isn't
16:57
<vagrantc>
sounds like it would be more complex that worth it, but you coudl have an includes that removes matching lines from the excludes.
16:57
<alkisg>
(07:55:15 PM) enaut: if someone wants to include he can just copy it over ==> to include, one would create a new /etc/ltsp/image-local.excludes that would be used *in addition* to the /usr file
16:57
<vagrantc>
more complex than worth it
16:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yeah a regex that matches regex'es... too complicated
16:58* vagrantc nods
16:59
<vagrantc>
just prefer to avoid overwriting defaults when possible; only specifying the "diff" between the defaults and what the end-user wants leads to less maintenance for the sysadmin
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16:59
<vagrantc>
but only if it's simple to implement :)
16:59
<alkisg>
vagrantc: that's exactly what ltsp19 improves upon ltsp5 :)
16:59
<vagrantc>
indeed
16:59
<alkisg>
ah but for additions only, not removals
17:00
As it's hard to implement for removals :)
17:00
<vagrantc>
right
17:01
<alkisg>
OK jogging time, later... enaut, I think the ppa is ready, update + test man/--help if you want
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17:09
<enaut>
alkisg: works now thank you!
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18:40
<alkisg>
enaut: great, thank you too
18:44
<enaut>
alkisg... I opened a pull request... I think that is how it was intended?
18:44* alkisg reads...
18:45
<enaut>
before my image-local.excludes were overwriting the default excludes.
18:46
<alkisg>
enaut: the idea is that we want to pass up to two files to mksquashfs,
18:46
one is the upstream, and one is the local, which adds (and not overwrites) the upstream one
18:47
Now, the upstream one can be completely overriden with a third file, /etc/ltsp/image.excludes
18:47
So you're saying that /etc/ltsp/image-local.excludes was overriding /usr..?
18:48
Let me sum up: /etc/ltsp/image.excludes overrides /usr/share/ltsp/server/image/image.excludes
18:48
while /etc/ltsp/image-local.excludes has additional content and does not override anything
18:49
Is that not the case?
18:50
<enaut>
with my patch that is the case... without it image-local.excludes overwrites upstream...
18:50
<alkisg>
OK, ty, reading the code again...
18:52
<enaut>
its "if ef_local does not exist set ef_upstream else unset it"
18:52
<alkisg>
Yeah my code there doesn't make much sense, I think I wanted to override it and then I changed my mind or something; the "else" in the end doesn't do anything if we accept your (very logical) patch
18:53
elif [ -f "$_APPLET_DIR/image.excludes" ]; then ==> might make a bit sense, but it's not worth it either
18:55
<enaut>
bash conditionals are one of the reasons why I avoid bash scripts
18:55
<alkisg>
enaut: can you update your pull request to this, so that I just merge it online? http://paste.debian.net/1096726/
18:57
<enaut>
sure
18:57
<alkisg>
ty
18:57
<vagrantc>
first pull request for ltsp19? :)
18:57
<alkisg>
Yey! :D
18:59
enaut: also I think "override" is more suitable than "overwrite", although my english isn't to be trusted much...
19:00
OK now let me remember how to merge online.. :D
19:00
<vagrantc>
it's not just a click?
19:02
<enaut>
alkisg: you are absolutely right about the override...
19:03
<alkisg>
Yey, "squashed merge" done :)
19:03
Ty enaut
19:04
<enaut>
good job and thanks...
19:04
<alkisg>
enaut: did you have a look at man ltsp.conf? Are you missing something specific that I should work on first?
19:05
Currently I just implemented autologins in lightdm/gdm3/sddm; I'm polishing the docs about them and pushing...
19:05
Then I think I'll work on livecd booting, to be able to easily try out any distro/version/desktop environment
19:06
<enaut>
alkisg: I didn't really proofread... I just skimmed and looked for the information. I did not find the image-local.excludes files which is why I asked here and looked at the sourcecode
19:06
<alkisg>
True I didn't document that one
19:08
<enaut>
I may be able to look at the texts tomorrow with a clearer head
19:08
<alkisg>
enaut: you're now an official contributor to ltsp! https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/graphs/contributors
19:09
github is fun :)
19:09
<enaut>
yeay and ltsp doubled its contributors in just 3 days - very healthy project ;)
19:09
<alkisg>
Hehe
19:11
Btw for some reason debian doesn't show a user list in lightdm. I'm thinking to unconditionally enable that; is there a reason not to show a user list? The manual list will also be displayed
19:12
greeter-hide-users=false instead of the debian default true
19:12
...all other DMs show the list anyway
19:15
<enaut>
alkisg: you should make it optional. gdm is very strange if the list grows beyond the screen. Besides my students don't need to know there are other users. So I'd opt for showing no userlist in all environments
19:16
So I prefer to 1. enter username 2. enter password
19:16
<alkisg>
Hmm, here's it's the opposite, in primary schools it's nice to see only the "a07 b07 c07" users in the pc07 client, so that they just click and log in without typing anything,
19:16
<enaut>
yep
19:16
<alkisg>
the "enter username/password" of course is there,
19:17
I'll need to see if I can hide the user list in gdm and sddm, as the default is to show it
19:18
<enaut>
would be great if ltsp would do it for me, as that was the next thing I wanted to do.
19:18
<alkisg>
enaut: maybe you can prepare the gdm3 pull request while I prepare sddm ;)
19:19
Ah I'll need to push first; which will be tomorrow morning
19:22
Currently I allow passing extra DM configuration with these parameters: LIGHTDM_CONF="greeter-hide-users=true"
19:22
So one would just put GDM3_CONF=... in ltsp.conf, to disable the list
19:22
Maybe that's enough...
19:28
<enaut>
I don't know if I can find the time to do it as new dad I can't schedule anything :(
19:28
<alkisg>
Oooh, sure, enjoy your baby! It's what matters most
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