IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 April 2016   (all times are UTC)

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01:15
<borogoves>
holy cow there are a lot of people in here
01:21
I'm trying to get a feel for how active and large the LTSP community is before I dig in too deep
01:28
<maldridge>
borogoves: reasonably large, but somewhat quiet
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01:29
<borogoves>
Fair enough
01:29
and shrinking lol
01:30
<maldridge>
not necessarily
01:31
I would say that more sites are standing up ltsp than are tearing it down
01:31
<borogoves>
was refering to gbaman's timely exit
01:31
<maldridge>
ah, I have smartfilter on so I dont see joins and parts
01:32
<borogoves>
I've been kicking it around. We have a startup with a few desktops mixed windows/Xubuntu I'm just tired of dealing with rolling out new systems
01:33
<maldridge>
cool, if I had to guess its a software based startup?
01:33
<borogoves>
E-commerce
01:33
Needs are pretty simple
01:33
Software is a big deal yes
01:34
Physical aspect is running the packing/shipping room
01:34
<maldridge>
ah, ltsp is pretty great if you don't need a lot of compute horsepower on the endpoints, but I don't know that I'd use it for things like heavy CAD/CAM software
01:34
<borogoves>
Our application requirements are pretty simple. We use BASE and every thing else is web based with the exception of one excel spread sheet with macros we are married to
01:35
We may run in to some light video editing of 20 second product demos. That is my only concern.
01:36
<maldridge>
well it would be rendered on the server which should be fine
01:36
<borogoves>
Lots of web browsing, email and BASE as a SQL front end. Seems ideal. I've kicked it around for a while. I said we would do it when we hit 5 work stations and we are at 4
01:37
<maldridge>
the CAD issue I reference was based on an experience with trying to run a 60 seat lab on a pair of terminal servers
01:37
<borogoves>
There is no way that sounds liek a good idea.
01:38
<maldridge>
we eventually got it working with 6 very expensive nvidia GPUs to take the graphics load in the server
01:38
<borogoves>
ow
01:38
What do we look at for redundancy? Say I run dual machines in case of total failure of one server.. what's the basic scenario there?
01:39
<maldridge>
you could run an LTSP cluster, but that's probably overkill
01:39
probably way easier to have everyone's home folder on a NAS and then mount that into an LTSP server
01:40
<borogoves>
Our #1 concern is down time. For us downing the fulfillment room is very costly. And we have nearly unlimited supply of 3-4 year old server and networking equipment
01:40
<maldridge>
oh, then in that case by all means keep a hot spare
01:40
the cluster is just an insane amount of work for what sounds like very few machines
01:41
<borogoves>
Yeah I'm not looking for an insane amount of work... We will be looking at only about 20 terminals over the next 2 years
01:42
<maldridge>
yeah, one server is plenty to handle that much
01:42
if you're concerned about standing up another server quickly look into some kind of orchestration technology such as ansible, salt, puppet, or chef
01:43
<borogoves>
Just a hot spare with a NAS behind it then. seems simple.
01:43
<maldridge>
then pair it with a preseed or kickstart file for a fully touchfree install
01:43
<borogoves>
salt sounds familiar to me.
01:43
<maldridge>
I've done that and recovered from a complete failure in under 30 minutes
01:46
<borogoves>
installing on a VM right now... gonna check it out...
01:46
<sbalneav>
Evening all
01:46
<borogoves>
howdy
01:49
<maldridge>
borogoves: beware the network setup if you're doing this with a VM, the VM needs to be able to see the DHCP server
01:49
<borogoves>
I have it bridged which I think is what I'm looking for... let me check
01:50
<maldridge>
that should do it
01:50
<borogoves>
yeap looks good
01:57
well this thing is going to run updates forever. I'll mess with it in the morning.
01:57
thanks for the help
01:57
ttfn
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04:56
<trusty1404>
Can someone tell me what this means? I am prevented from installing skype 4.3
04:56
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-0ubuntu6.5) ... N: Ignoring file 'trillian.list.2' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension N: Ignoring file 'trillian.list.1' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension N: Ignoring file 'trillian.list.2' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension N: Ignoring file 'trillian.list.1'
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08:52
<BuddyButterfly>
hi
08:53
alkisg: unfortunately the setting ldm_password_hash did not work for sudo rights of the clients.
08:53
any other idea?
08:53
sry, LDM_PASSWORDHASH=yes.
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11:16
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: first, please ask in the channel, not specifically me; I'm not the only person around giving support etc :)
11:16
Second, take a look at the man page, you're spelling it wrong
11:17
!lts.conf
11:17
<ltsp`>
lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
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11:24
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok, sry. just responed as you have given me the setting in the last conversation. yep, I looked for the setting but did not find it.
11:25
<alkisg>
It's there on that page
11:25
Use your browser's "find in page" option
11:25
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok, then you just remembered it wrong. tnx, will try.
11:25
<alkisg>
I remembered what wrong?
11:26
<BuddyButterfly>
(13:15:09) alkisg: If you use LDM_PASSWORDHASH=yes, then they're able to;
11:26
from 20th of April ;-)
11:26
but tnx anyway.
11:27* alkisg is sure he's linked to the manpage there :)
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11:29
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: works! tnx a lot!
11:29
<alkisg>
You're welcome
11:31
<BuddyButterfly>
ok, copy and paste now works also fine.
11:31
from host system to ltsp kvm client and vice versa.
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13:10
<JulienF>
Hello again!
13:11
I don't know if you'll remember me, I had an issue in setting up LTSP on ubuntu 16.04 that you helped me fix
13:12
I could get a very good working environment
13:12
and I decided to take things a step further by connecting the LTSP server to a freeIPA server
13:13
I have everything working fine when I access the LTSP server directly (I can login with users from my LDAP directory)
13:13
but when I try to login from an LTSP client I can't login anymore
13:14
at each login the login screen refreshes itself
13:14
I've went to login using console and I have no HOME directory message
13:15
I guess that's the reason why the LDM login page refreshes but I have no idea why I'm getting this error now. I also am unable to login with a local user account.
13:16
on LDM same refresh behavior, on console it tells me that the login/password are incorrect
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15:44
<julienfayad>
Hello
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15:45
<FJulien>
I’ve been disconnected and wasn’t receiving any message
15:46
I don’t know if anyone suggested some help so let me present my problem again
15:46
I’ve had an LTSP-PSP setup running great thanks to the help of alkisg and vagrantc
15:47
the ltsp server is an ubuntu mate 16.04 64 bits
15:47
I wanted to go further and use a freeIPA server for user management
15:48
so I installed freeipa-client packages and could successfully connect to the freeIPA server. I know it’s successful because I can login to the ubuntu machine with users from the freeIPA server
15:48
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Good news. I a) fixed your root login issue, and b) have the newest iteration of libpam-sshauth going. Logs in, spawns ssh socket... very nice.
15:49
<FJulien>
so I rebuilt the image thinking that it would work on the ltsp client
15:49
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: rockin!
15:49
sbalneav: although, now that i think about it, i'm way more into jazz and blues ... but the sentiment is no different!
15:50
<FJulien>
but it didn’t, instead when I try to login on ldm the login window refresh, if I login on console it logs me in but can’t find the home folder and finally if I try to login with a local user it doesn’t recognize the logins (as if the user didn’t exist)
15:50
anyone with a solution ?
15:50
<sbalneav>
I've done a preliminary push, however, there's some bugs with "Keyboard Interactive" auth, which I'm working at solving.
15:51
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: do you think it would be hard to backport the fix for the root login issue to 0.3.x ?
15:51
<sbalneav>
No.
15:51
I'll point you to the line...
15:51
<vagrantc>
nice. will want to get a security update for that into jessie.
15:52
<sbalneav>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/libpam-sshauth/view/head:/src/pam_sshauth.c
15:52
line 112
15:52* vagrantc should have prevented libpam-sshauthfrom getting into jessie in the first place
15:52
<vagrantc>
i was so hopeful we would start using it at the time
15:52
<sbalneav>
it returns PAM_SUCCESS, should be PAM_AUTH_ERR
15:53
<vagrantc>
minor detail.
15:53
:)
15:53
<sbalneav>
"Oh, you're root? Sure, you authenticated, no passwd necessary" :D
15:53
I must have had a brain fart or something.
15:54
<vagrantc>
well, glad you found it, and glad you fixed it :)
15:54
<sbalneav>
In this version, I can actually either log in local or sshauth users.
15:55
auth [success=3 default=ignore] pam_unix.so nullok_secure
15:55
auth required pam_sshauth.so debug host=server try_first_pass userenv
15:55
auth [success=1] pam_exec.so debug expose_authtok /usr/share/ltsp-pam/ltsp-session
15:55
authrequisitepam_deny.so
15:55
<vagrantc>
like, you give a provision for falling back to the rest of the pam stack?
15:55
<sbalneav>
authrequiredpam_permit.so
15:55
right.
15:55
<vagrantc>
very cool.
15:55
<sbalneav>
Yeah, it's almost like it's turning into a real pam module :D
15:57* FJulien looking for help :-(
15:57
<vagrantc>
!ask | echo FJulien
15:57
<ltsp`>
FJulien ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
15:58
<sbalneav>
FJulien: I don't know anything about freeIPA
15:58
<FJulien>
got the rule (quite new to IRC)
15:58
well i feel that it’s not freeIPA specific
15:59
<vagrantc>
FJulien: can you log in via ssh?
15:59
<sbalneav>
Well, according to your problem: Things were working, you introduced freeIPA, now it doesn't work.
15:59
<vagrantc>
FJulien: e.g. log in to the server via ssh using the freeipa credentials
16:00
<sbalneav>
So, not sure why you'd feel the freeIPA isn't an issue :D
16:00
<FJulien>
well I can login on clients with the tty1 window
16:00
with freeipa credentials
16:00
but it can’t find home folders
16:00
<vagrantc>
FJulien: can you ssh to the server using freeipa credentials?
16:01
FJulien: the default LTSP configuration uses ssh to authenticate to the server.
16:01
<FJulien>
ECDSA host key for 10.0.1.31 has changed and you have requested strict checking.
16:02
that’s what I’m getting from my own computer when trying to ssh
16:03
<vagrantc>
FJulien: try "ssh server"
16:03
FJulien: from a client
16:04
<FJulien>
just needed to refresh the host keys
16:04
so short answer is yes I can ssh to the server with a freeIPA user
16:04
<vagrantc>
using "ltsp-update-sshkeys"
16:04
?
16:04
<FJulien>
euhh nop it’s on my workstation I just removed the host key for the server
16:05
so the new one get added
16:05
(that was an error I was getting on my own workstation)
16:05
<vagrantc>
FJulien: please log in on the tty, and type "ssh server" and try logging in as a user with the freeipa credentials.
16:05
FJulien: from a thin client.
16:06
<FJulien>
well on tty it directly prompts for a username
16:07
<vagrantc>
FJulien: what did you mean by: "< FJulien> well I can login on clients with the tty1 window" ?
16:08
<FJulien>
when it promtps to the username I put the login of a freeIPA user
16:08
and then enters its password and it logs me in
16:08
difference is
16:09
when I ssh into the ltsp server from another workstation and login with a FreeIPA server
16:09
I get into the home directory of this user
16:09
but on the thin client
16:09
I get a warning saying that there’s no home directory and throws me on the /
16:09
<vagrantc>
ok, if you want help, please help me by giving me answers to the questions i'm asking, not answers to other questions.
16:10
<FJulien>
hmm then I guess I’m not getting the question
16:10
to recap
16:10
<vagrantc>
FJulien: please don't recap ...
16:11
FJulien: please log in on the tty of the client, don't worry about the home directory issue. from the client, type "ssh server". does it allow you to log in via ssh?
16:12
<FJulien>
ok
16:13
so I logged in to a client with a freeipa user
16:13
then run ssh server
16:13
I’m getting the following warning:
16:14
could not create directory ‘/home/julien/.ssh’ (I logged in with the user julienf though and julien is the main local account on the ltsp server)
16:14
then it fails with
16:14
Failed to add the host to the list of kown hosts
16:14
ohh wait I overlooked something
16:15
it was asking for the local’s account password
16:15
I typed it
16:15
and it said permission denied. please try again
16:16
well I keep on doing scilly mistakes… it actually was asking for the FreeIPA credentials
16:16
I typed it
16:16
and it succeeds
16:16
so final conclusion ssh server worked with warnings
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16:19
<vagrantc>
ok.
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16:19* FJulien got disconnected and back again
16:20* vagrantc noticed
16:20
<FJulien>
vagrantc I suggest to tackle the first issue, being I can’t login with my local user anymore
16:21
<vagrantc>
local to the thin client?
16:21
<FJulien>
well I’m ltsp-pnp ing
16:21
<vagrantc>
FJulien: did you attempt to log in via ssh with teh same user you tried to login with using LDM?
16:21
FJulien: local users are deleted.
16:21
purged, whatever.
16:22
there are no local users on the thin client
16:22
<FJulien>
it’s a local user on the ltsp-server
16:22
and I could login with it on the thin client
16:22
but not anymore
16:24
and to answer your question, yes I used the same user
16:25
<vagrantc>
FJulien: i'm sorry, i can't follow what you're doing well enough to actually help you.
16:26
<FJulien>
hmmm maybe if I use actual username it would help
16:26
I have a user julien on the ltsp server (it’s the one I login with on the machine)
16:27
and yesterday I could login on a thin client with this user
16:28
test as messages are not being sent
16:28FJulien has left IRC (FJulien!~julienf@194.126.137.123)
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16:29
<FJulien>
vagrantc I’m having connection issues, sorry for that
16:29
I was saying that maybe using actual username can help
16:29
I have a local user (on the ltsp server) it’s login is julien
16:29
<vagrantc>
yes, i saw all that
16:30
<FJulien>
yesterday I could login to a thin client with the julien user
16:30
but today, after I setup freeipa-client-install
16:30
I can’t anymore
16:30
<vagrantc>
what did "setup freeipa-client-install" involve?
16:31
and this seems to be increasingly not LTSP related.
16:31
here's the deal
16:31
<FJulien>
well I don’t know all the details, but I know one of the steps is to change how logins are being fetched so they can also be loaded from the freeIPA directory
16:31
I know it seems very FreeIPA related
16:31
but if you take thin clients out of the equation, everything works well
16:32
meaning that if I login to the machine (the LTSP server) using any username (local or freeIPA)
16:32
it will work and open the session with no problem
16:32
<vagrantc>
bascially, you need to be able to ssh into the server as a user from a thin client... which basically means you can configure the server's ssh pam stack however you want. (e.g. local users, freeipa, mysql backend, whatever)
16:32
<FJulien>
I’m only encountering issue from thin clients
16:33
well if what you mean is “ssh server” from a session on a thin client
16:33
yes I can do that
16:34
yet I don’t know how to configure the pam stack (which file to edit etc…)
16:34
one detail that could be of importance also
16:34
<vagrantc>
i don't know what freeipa does, but it probably configures the pam stack for you, and might do something that's breaking your install.
16:35
<FJulien>
I also guess so
16:35
but how do I change review/change it ? as it seems the thin client isn’t loading all its configurations from the server
16:36
<vagrantc>
but i honestly can't track what you're saying well enough to know for sure you're even doing what i'm asking, and responding in ways where i'm confident in the answer, so it's too much effort to help you and the fun of volunteering is dead.
16:38
<FJulien>
I see
16:38
you gave a hint though, may I ask how to check the pam stack on the thin client ?
16:39
<sbalneav>
look in /etc/pam.d
16:40
<vagrantc>
but most likely /etc/pam.d on the server ... *unless* you're not using LDM at all but lightdm or gdm or kdm or something
16:40
but the typical LTSP-PNP setup uses LDM.
16:41
<FJulien>
I didn’t change that so it should be the one by default
16:41
<vagrantc>
my default pam stack includes absoletely no freeipa hooks.
16:42
<FJulien>
that’s quite new to me but inside my /etc/pam.d I have many files
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16:43
<vagrantc>
FJulien: check /etc/pam.d/sshd and /etc/pam.d/common-*
16:45
<FJulien>
ok in sshd there are many directives
16:45
anyone in particular I should be looking at ?
16:46
<vagrantc>
probably look for lines that freeipa might have configured
16:46
i rarely mess with pam, so don't have much to offer there
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16:47
<vagrantc>
there is the PAM manpage, pam.d manpage, and other things that will swiftly overwhelm most people :)
16:48
<FJulien>
well I can’t see anything that is either FreeIPA or LDAP related
16:49
in the sshd file
16:49
I also checked the common-auth
16:49
<alkisg>
FJulien: do you have epoptes installed?
16:49
<FJulien>
yes I do
16:49
<alkisg>
!vnc-edide
16:49
<ltsp`>
vnc-edide: To share your screen with me, open Epoptes → Help menu → Remote support → Host: srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr, and click the Connect button
16:50
<alkisg>
have a thin client booted to test with
16:50
<FJulien>
ok
16:51
which method ?
16:51
graphic or console ?
16:51
<alkisg>
vnc, the default
16:51
graphic
16:51
<FJulien>
iit’s connected
16:53
<alkisg>
FJulien: your pam is ok, the ssh keys are wrong
16:54
<FJulien>
hmmm
16:54
<alkisg>
The authenticity of host 'server (<no hostip for proxy command>)' can't be established.
16:54
What's that part? proxy?
16:54
<FJulien>
I honestly have no idea
16:59
<alkisg>
FJulien: did you change the hostname?
16:59
from remoteclientserver to office?
17:00
<FJulien>
ohh well that’s probably the freeIPA client install script
17:00
because office is the first part of the freeIPA server kerberos REALM
17:00
<alkisg>
Note that "office" doesn't even exist in /etc/hosts
17:00
Put the correct hostname in /etc/hosts and run ltsp-update-image again
17:00* alkisg closes vnc...
17:01
<FJulien>
you mean as 127.0.0.1 office ?
17:01
<alkisg>
Yup that sounds ok
17:02* FJulien updating the image
17:04
<alkisg>
Also note that "thin client" is green icon in epoptes, while yours is blue, i.e. "fat client"
17:04
That information, fat vs thin, makes a lot of difference when you request support...
17:05
<FJulien>
well we learn everyday
17:05
I’ll keep that in mind for the future! Thanks a lot for your help guys
17:05
the image is still being updated
17:06
do you think this will also solve the ‘no home directory found’ error (when logging with freeIPA users) ?
17:06
<alkisg>
You're not supposed to log in to vt1 in thin/fat clients
17:06
It's a bug that freeipa allows you to
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17:07
<FJulien>
vt1 ? what is that ?
17:09
<alkisg>
The console, when you press alt+ctrl+f1 on the client
17:09
<FJulien>
ohhh ok
17:10
<alkisg>
!screen_02
17:10
<ltsp`>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
17:10
<FJulien>
by the way quick question
17:10
<alkisg>
If you ever want something from the console, you do that ^ above to get a root login
17:10* alkisg has answered quick questions in more than 2 hours in some cases... :)
17:10
<FJulien>
hahaha
17:10
well this one might not be that quick
17:11
now that the fat client booted
17:11
I cd into the home directory to see which directories are there
17:11
and I can only see one
17:11
I don’t see the ones of the other users, is that normal ?
17:12* FJulien updating the image is done I’m testing with the local user now
17:12
<alkisg>
It's normal for fat clients when you use the default sshfs, to mount /home/username, yes
17:14
<FJulien>
so it’s mounting the /home/username at login… does it require the username to be local on the ltsp server to work ?
17:14
to come back to the intial issue, after a reboot, the error is back again
17:14
verifying username and passowrd sticks for a few second then the login screen shows again
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17:15
<||cw>
depends on how you define "local"
17:15
<alkisg>
Then the wrong hostname is saved to the ssh keys and they need to be updated
17:15
<||cw>
there does need to be a fodler for that user in the server's /home
17:16
and you do need to be able to login local, via ssh, and via sftp/scp
17:16
<FJulien>
alkisg what if I simply ssh-keygen -R hostname ?
17:17
licw I do have a folder for that user on the server’s home (I created it manually so I could actually login to the server with that username e.g r.honein)
17:19* ||cw is suspicious of a dot in a username
17:19
<FJulien>
hmmm so you suggest I rename the home folder and change the home folder configuration for that user ?
17:19
<||cw>
dot has special meaning in some systems, certain email servers is one
17:20
i avoid anything but alphanum in usernames
17:20
I have no idea if it's a problem here, it probably isn't, but it can be a problem in the greater scheme of things
17:21
<FJulien>
I’ll try that right after I fix the regular user login (regular as for a user that is declared on the ltsp server machine itself and not on FreeIPA)
17:22
<maldridge>
||cw: both kerberos and ldap can handle the . with no issues
17:22
<alkisg>
FJulien: put this in lts.conf: RCFILE_SSH="ssh-keyscan server >/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts 2>/dev/null &"
17:23
This will work around the ssh keys issue so that you are able to login, so that it gets your mind off of other possible issues
17:23
<FJulien>
thanks alkisg
17:23
<alkisg>
I'm not sure if the issue is with the changed hostname or some proxycommand that freeipa puts to sshd_config, but it's freeipa related
17:23
and since we already tried and were able to login, it's surely a matter of the ssh keys
17:26* FJulien rebooting with the new configuration in lts.conf
17:28
<FJulien>
alkisg after editing the lts.conf my understanding is that I don’t need to rebuild the image
17:28
correct ?
17:28
<alkisg>
Correct
17:28
<FJulien>
well then the workaround wasn’t enough
17:29
I’ve edited the lts.conf and added the line you suggested
17:29
<alkisg>
It probably was not applied correctly
17:29
<FJulien>
rebooted the client
17:29
<alkisg>
!vnc-edide
17:29
<ltsp`>
vnc-edide: To share your screen with me, open Epoptes → Help menu → Remote support → Host: srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr, and click the Connect button
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17:33
<alkisg>
FJulien: ok, the problem is that freeipa destroyed your global /etc/ssh/ssh_config,
17:33
mentioning there that another ssh_known_hosts file be used instead of the usual one
17:34
You can undo that edit dynamically from an lts.conf line, but I think that's where I'll draw the line and say that it's completely out of the free support of ltsp installations :)
17:34
You'll also need to remove the proxy command from there
17:35
Btw you should be able to login now, until you reboot the client
17:36
<FJulien>
I understand, but if I do what you suggest won’t I actually lose the ability to login from the ldap directory ? and indeed I can now login
17:36
<alkisg>
No, as ltsp clients only login to the server via ssh, and then the server logs in to whatever it wants (ldap/freeipa etc)
17:36
You're not supposed to use freeipa in the clients, so you can just delete those 2 lines that mess up ldm
17:36
You'll still be able to login with ldap
17:37
(user accounts)
17:39
<FJulien>
ok I see
17:40
well now, I clicked switch acount to test something, it locked my session, asks for the password but it doesn’t accept it :-(
17:42
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
17:42
<ltsp`>
lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
17:42
<alkisg>
Check for LDM_PASSWORD_HASH there
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17:43
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: ooooooooh this is gettin' good.
17:43* alkisg waits for the next pam-ssh release to test with!
17:43
<sbalneav>
Got graphical login workin. try_first_pass works wether you have password or challenge/response
17:43
alkisg: I'm hackin' furiously now.
17:44
It's almost like a real pam module :D
17:44
<alkisg>
Tell me the address and what to order, coffee or beer or lobsters! :)
17:44
<sbalneav>
heh
17:44
Just promise to come to maine this year so I can buy YOU the beer :D
17:45
<alkisg>
Ouch, the economic crisis made this very hard without sponsorship... :-/
17:45
<sbalneav>
yeah, I know :(
17:45
You guys got it rough over there.
17:46
<alkisg>
I'll see if I can arrange some LTSP BAGS though, By A Greek Sea :)
17:46* vagrantc hopes hopes hopes to rendezvous in cape town
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17:46
<alkisg>
And you're all invited there!
17:46
I hope so too!
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17:49* vagrantc wonders what on earth freeipa is doing editing ssh_config
17:50
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: these sound like exciting times! maybe the future is nearly here!
17:51
<sbalneav>
Yeah, no way that could ever go wrong and render a system un-log-innable.
17:51
;)
17:51
<alkisg>
vagrantc, sbalneav, there was interest from one small company to maybe do some part of sponsoring ltsp 6, and they were asking if there are other possible donors
17:51
Do you think I should send some mail asking if there are any?
17:52
Or some kickstarter or other project?
17:52
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: So I'm logging in with lightdm/lightm-webkit2-greeter and libpam-sshauth plus your scripts package (modified)
17:52
hhhh
17:52
m
17:52
kickstarter.....
17:52
THAT would be kind of interesting!
17:56
<FJulien>
I don’t know if you would need this kind of help, but I can help put up a crowdfunding campaign
17:57
<alkisg>
FJulien: do you have experience in that?
17:57
<FJulien>
ohh by the way as you suggested it alkisg I can login with freeIPA users
17:58
well I work with a team who have experience in that
17:59
<alkisg>
I think ltsp would greatly benefit from that, so yup, could you see if you can indeed help us, so that we then get that conversation started between the ltsp devs that are interested?
18:00
<FJulien>
sure
18:02
tomorrow and monday are holidays here, so I’ll be able to get back to you on this on tuesday
18:02
<alkisg>
np, no hurry, and thanks
18:05
<FJulien>
hmmm I’m testing stuff as we speak, users not being able to change their password is normal ? what is the regular workflow for that (if I don’t want to shadow the account locally with the LDM_PASSWORD_HASH parameter) ?
18:06
<alkisg>
It's normal, you'd need to run ltsp-remoteapps passwd (or some passwd-gui)
18:06
That's what the kickstarter campaign would be about (one of many things)
18:06
I.e. a proper pam module and a proper display manager
18:07
<FJulien>
ok, well can you tell me what’s the roadmap for ltsp 6 so I have a better visibility of what needs to be sponsored ?
18:08
as for ltsp-remoteapps where should I run this command
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18:15
<alkisg>
One part is this: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
18:15
Another one is that: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Ltspd
18:15
And lots of glue to bind them to the existing ltsp code base
18:16
<vagrantc>
reverse sshfs to replace ltspfs?
18:16
<alkisg>
Sure, or even ssh running on the clients, but those can also be worked on after the initial ltsp 6 release
18:17* vagrantc wonders if lightdm-webkit2-greeter might be a reasonable default, since we've got an in with upstream
18:17
<alkisg>
I think pam + ltspd are the base for ltsp 6, and depending on the sponsorship we'll get, we can implement a lot of the rest we want
18:18
And some of the bugs there, that are postponed for ltsp 6: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/
18:18
<vagrantc>
yeah, pam and ltspd sound like a good foundation, although you had many additional plans to shunt into ltspd above and beyond that (tftp and/or http boot being one, i recall)
18:20
<alkisg>
lpxelinux isn't yet stable enough for production, at least on top of ipxe
18:20
<vagrantc>
there was also writing up a replacement for ltsp-init
18:20
consolidating what happens in init-ltsp and ltsp-config.d would e really good ... so that we're not halfway implementing both
18:24
<FJulien>
well as a technical person I can undertand what this means, but this will need some vulgarization if the objective is to launch a kickstarter campaign and it should be less feature centric and more oriented towards the benefits
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18:27
<vagrantc>
FJulien: proper support for PAM will allow to use (at least in theory) arbitrary display managers such as gdm, lightdm and kdm, and whatever themes they support.
18:28
FJulien: proper support for PAM will also allow arbitrary pam backends, such as LDAP, *SQL, etc.
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18:29
<vagrantc>
rewriting the configuration to be more modular and consistant will be easier to maintain while being more flexible.
18:29
regarding LTSPD
18:30
and i actually think we could support local console logins with PAM support, which should be easier for troubleshooting.
18:42
<FJulien>
this seems to be mainly benefiting SysAdmins
18:43
am I wrong ?
18:44
<vagrantc>
i daresay, if the sysadmins are better able to maintain the systems, their users will be happier
18:48
<quinox>
we had to fix PAM already for our fat clients,screensavers won't be able to unlock otherwise
18:53
<vagrantc>
yeah, exactly, that sort of thing, password changing, etc. would go away if we implemented pam properly for ltsp
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19:36
<alkisg>
FJulien: if your answer is that yes, you can help us run a crowdfunding campaign, I'm sure we'll be able to write our goals and user benefits a lot more clearly than just a few lines in IRC
19:37
<sbalneav>
"gibe monie plox" ;)
19:40* vagrantc nudges sbalneav back into the C corner
19:45
<FJulien>
I’m ready to personnally help, I think It’ll be more powerfull if I can get other people in my company to pitch in and volounteer their time
19:46
I’ll keep you posted on tuesday
19:46
<sbalneav>
Nudging me softly...
19:47
vagrantc: fixin' bugs fixin' bugs...
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20:27
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: well, i extracted the two lines to fix that libpam-sshatuh security issue, and they apply to both 0.3.x and 0.4.x in debian, so i'll do some security uploads in the coming days while you master your 1.x release :)
20:27
sbalneav: although i haven't yet tested if it works or not... heh.
20:28
sbalneav: but very much looking forward to the latest and greatest libpam-sshauth the world has ever seen!
20:31
<sbalneav>
I'm just about to do some more pushes.
20:31
Logging in and out works perfectly, unlocking a mate-desktop screen works good, all sockets and sshfs mounts go away cleanly.
20:32* vagrantc wonders if sbalneav would conspire to use launchpad's git support for libpam-sshauth
20:32
<sbalneav>
It's almost like I know what I'm doing.
20:32
Sure, what do I have to do?
20:33
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i'm not sure yet, i haven't tried it ... but i've been using git-remote-bzr to maintain all my bzr branches ... but it can't do tags.
20:33
sbalneav: i could figure out how to push that and then we can experiment with libpam-sshauth with the glories of native git.
20:33
i haven't tried launchpad's git support largely because i haven't had a good test project, but this seems like it might be a good candidate
20:34
<sbalneav>
Allow me to ask the completely heretical question....
20:34
For a clean LTSP6 break.... might moving to github be.. oh, I dunno... bad?
20:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg and i have talked about it a bit ... i think the main concern for alkisg was translations and maybe forums or something like that
20:36
admittedly, even though it took a while, launchpad has been an open platform for many years now, and github is closed-source, as i understand it.
20:36
<sbalneav>
I guess the $50 question is: if we do LTSP6 right, there's no translations.
20:36
<vagrantc>
there is that
20:36
<sbalneav>
Because it'll all just be shell scripts doing plumbing, and a pam module.
20:37
I don't care either way.
20:37
<vagrantc>
i've got to head out soon, but i figured i'd explore the idea of at least trying out launchpad's git support as a middle-road approach.
20:37
<sbalneav>
I'll let you and alkisg decide.
20:37
I'm cool with it, if someone can tell me how.
20:37
Hell, I'll do anything.
20:37
<ogra_>
so canadian of you :)
20:37
<vagrantc>
i'll give it a whirl and check in
20:38* ogra_ hugs everyone
20:38
<sbalneav>
Hey ogra_
20:38
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: yeah, i mean, we've evidence of your dancing in order to make a point
20:38* vagrantc waves to ogra_
20:38
<sbalneav>
Shakin' what my momma gave me
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20:41
<ogra_>
no more images and chroots in ltsp6 ?
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20:46
<alkisg>
ogra_: I'd prefer it if ltsp 6 used ltsp-pnp (i.e. one image generated out of the server's /) by default, but also supported ltsp-update-image from any source, chroots, .vdi or .vmdk files, whatever.
20:46
I don't really care about ltsp-build-client though, I wouldn't mind if it completely went away...
20:47
vagrantc: between git+launchpad, and github, which one would you prefer?
20:47
<ogra_>
i was just wondering about the "no translations" ... that kind of implies you also dont need any tools anymore :)
20:47
<alkisg>
Well, sysadmin translations aren't very important, so ltsp-update-image etc can be untranslated without making a big deal of it
20:48
It's user translations that are important, e.g. ldm...
20:48
<ogra_>
ah, yeah
20:48
funny that that is still alive
20:48* alkisg would prefer it if it was still in python :D
20:49* ogra_ still remembers the 20 or so linnes of python this started as ...
20:49
<ogra_>
got a complex beast over time ...
20:49
<alkisg>
Yeah especially the plugins architecture was an overkill
20:50* vagrantc remembers when SDM was few lines of shell
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20:50* ogra_ notes that the github issue tracker really sucks for bug management
20:51
<alkisg>
I love that it supports markup though :)
20:51
<ogra_>
for snappy we picked github for code but keep bug tracking in LP
20:51
<alkisg>
ogra_: why github for snappy? To make it easier for people outside ubuntu to cooperate?
20:51
<ogra_>
(the LP guys werent thrilled that we dont pick LP+git ... )
20:52
alkisg, that was the intention i think ...
20:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not much of a fan of either launchpad or github, but given we're already using launchpad, and i would like (but don't strictly need) git, i'd like to try launchpad's git support as the least changes to get what i want :)
20:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc: cool, let's switch to that when we (1) don't need translations, or (2) launchpad supports git translation branches
20:53
<ogra_>
the good thing about LP++git is that you can always nag cjwatson about it easily to get something fixed ;)
20:53
<alkisg>
Let's start ltsp 6 in git + launchpad :P)
20:53
<vagrantc>
alkisg: do you think libpam-sshauth makes sense as a project to try it with?
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20:54
<alkisg>
Sure, it's a very good start
20:54
<vagrantc>
then we can see how well it works with things like PPAs for testing...
20:55
<alkisg>
Once you get that latest version out, I'll try it in Ubuntu with PPAs and everything
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20:55
<alkisg>
And the more I think of it, the more I like sbalneav's idea of starting ltsp 6 with a clean tree, and only importing the bits we need
20:55
Even if that means losing part of the history
20:56
<vagrantc>
i'm cool with that.
20:56
<ogra_>
*sniff*
20:56
<vagrantc>
can always refer to it in the README
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21:05
<||cw>
can always keep the old tree in a release branch
21:06
<alkisg>
It just makes it harder to see "when did that line get committed and with what comment? in the new or in the old tree?"
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21:37
<||cw>
can history be imported per file?
21:37
git can do some pretty amazing things...
21:43
<ogra_>
if you migrate from bzr on lp to git on lp you can probably even import stuff ...
21:44
i'c contact cjwatson and ask if there is some way to just carry over the history (i know he is a history fanatic, would be surprised if there wasnt a way)
21:44
*I'd
21:45* alkisg doesn't mind to get rid of some of the history... there are scripts that were completely rewritten from scratch 5-6 times, yet they still have some authors mentioned in the headers that have no contribution whatsoever to the new form of the script
21:46
<ogra_>
just rip them out then :)
21:46
but thats not a history thing :)
21:46
(only a historic one :) )
21:46
<alkisg>
:)
21:47
<stgraber>
I'd strongly recommend against loosing the history, for legal reasons. Since as you pointed out, we've not done a great job to track copyright holders in file headers, the repository history is the main legal record, wiping it would be problematic.
21:47
<alkisg>
It's problematic to list persons as contributors when they aren't, too
21:48
<ogra_>
stgraber, do you know if you can carry over the bzr history into lp-git ?
21:48
<alkisg>
We can just commit code that me, vagrantc and sbalneav have personally written
21:48
<stgraber>
ogra_: yeah, you can do fastexport + fastimport or similar to convert from bzr to git
21:48
<ogra_>
ah, cool
21:48
so there you go :)
21:53* alkisg notes that ltsp 6 will probably not contain any line of code from ldm, ltsp-build-client, getltscfg, ltsp-cluster, nbd-proxy, ltspfs etc etc
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