IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 April 2007   (all times are UTC)

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06:49
<jkommeri>
Is there any easy way to decrease the size of the thin client nfsroot
06:50
because it is now more than 400 MBytes
06:52
<artista_frustrad>
jkommeri, you could try stripping the binary files
06:57
<jkommeri>
I don't really know what is needed and what is not
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07:01
<jkommeri>
I guess that there is much that is not really required
07:02
if it is the result of debootstrap
07:03
<ogra>
it is more than just a debootstrap
07:03
X plus everything thats needed for autodetection ...
07:04
<jkommeri>
ok
07:04
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
07:04
<ogra>
your kernel and initramfs take space
07:04
ltspfs and all needed deps if you use local devices
07:04
some sound daemon (pulse in case of ubuntu, esd for the rest)
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07:05
<ogra>
what you surely can do is rm -rf /usr/share/doc/* in the client chroot
07:05
<mhterres>
hello :-D
07:05
<jkommeri>
that is not much
07:06
<ogra>
why is that so important to you ?
07:06
400M isnt much nowadays
07:06
diskspace is cheap ...
07:06
<jkommeri>
well I have made the ltsp-server into a virtual machine
07:07
and planning to move the virtual machine as one package
07:07
but that is one big package
07:08
<ogra>
well the ubuntu feisty chroot is tar bzipped 139MB big ...
07:08
<jkommeri>
biggest part is the nfsroot
07:09
I tried to build feisty nfsroot but it failed for me
07:09
<ogra>
ogra@edubuntu:~$ du -hcs /opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386/
07:09
376M /opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386/
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07:10
<ogra>
how did it fail for you ? did you file a bug ?
07:10
<jkommeri>
The problem was with tls
07:10
<ogra>
tls ?
07:10
<jkommeri>
xen problem
07:10
<ogra>
hmm
07:11
<jkommeri>
I managed work around that problem using debian
07:11
<ogra>
would be nice to have a bug about that wiht soem data for the ubuntu kernel team ...
07:12
so we can fix that
07:12
<jkommeri>
ok
07:13
maybe next time :)
07:13
I have had so many difficulties with xen
07:14
<ogra>
and debians ltsp behaved differently ? thats very strange since the code is nearly identical (just a bit older in debian)
07:18
<jkommeri>
atleast the libc6 is different
07:18
<ogra>
indeed, on a package level in the chroot they are completely different ...
07:18
<jkommeri>
edgy that I used first has 2.4-1ubuntu12
07:18
<ogra>
right, 12 ubuntu patches
07:18
<jkommeri>
and etch 2.3.6.ds1-13
07:19
<ogra>
wow, thats old
07:19
feisty has 2.5-0ubuntu14 already
07:20
<jkommeri>
ok
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07:21
<ogra>
there are 17M in /usr/include in my chroot ...
07:22
check if /var/cache/apt/archive is empty in the debian chroot ...
07:22
*archives
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07:26
<jkommeri>
there is 13M
07:26
<ogra>
wipe it ...
07:26
<jkommeri>
so that with docs is 30M
07:26
<ogra>
likely .deb packages
07:27
a bare debootstap is already around 200M btw ...
07:28
debian might be a tad smaller than ubuntu ... be it 180M ...
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07:34
<cyberorg>
hi
07:34
<cliebow_>
ho
07:36
<cyberorg>
just briefly visiting, saying hello, hoping to work on getting ltsp on suse
07:36
<jammcq>
cliebow_: we have to be careful with that word, now that Imus got fired
07:38
<cliebow_>
heh!
07:39
i guess hi ho wont make it either
07:39
<cyberorg>
hio is fine
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07:40
<cliebow_>
hr was far more obnoxious years ago when his show was called feminine foreplay..
07:43
<Blinny>
I would like some pointers for how to debug an xserver crash on a client - It does a full-stop lockup, back to vt1 with a 'press enter to restart' but no keyboard support. This occurs on a dell gx110 (using both vesa and i810 xserver). I can't get at the logs on the terminal because of the lock.. are the actual errors logged anywhere else?
07:44
<cyberorg>
Blinny: you can configure clients to do logging on the server
07:45
<Blinny>
I was just typing that.
07:45
"Could configuring my ltsp server as a log server help in this instance?"
07:45
<cyberorg>
you'll have to pipe xserver logs to the server too, i think syslogs are the ones that gets logged there
07:46
<Blinny>
Right on. Where (in the scripts) are the xserver logs instantiated on the client?
07:47
Or do you know of a wiki/howto that you can point me to so I can stop bothering the channel? (;
07:47
<jammcq>
Blinny: what are you doing, when it crashes?
07:48
<cyberorg>
they are usually in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
07:48
<Blinny>
jammcq: This is my boss so his terms are a little loose. It seems to be usually when running firefox.i386 (this is an x86_64 installation), and my gut says it has to do with flash9
07:49
cyberorg: I think that's just the actual server's X log
07:49
<jammcq>
as soon as he fires up firefox? or after he's been using it for a while
07:49
<Blinny>
jammcq: After awhile.
07:49
<jammcq>
how much ram in the thin client?
07:50
<Blinny>
jammcq: 384.
07:50
<jammcq>
can you make it crash by visiting a certain site? or is it more random
07:50
<Blinny>
jammcq: It's using the embedded i810 vid card
07:50
Unfortunately more random.
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07:51
<jammcq>
in my experience, I've seen that the more you observe the problem, the less random it becomes
07:51
<Blinny>
Of course.
07:52
I'm always called after the fact though, when it's full locked. Unfortunately I can't trade boxes with him, as he's floppy-booting to get back to windows occasionally.
07:52
Of note is that we have one other i810 user who has not experienced this crash.
07:53
She is at a more rudimentary level though.
07:53
(runs at most two programs at a time)
07:54
I'm hesitant to say that it's not a problem specific to his box though, such as bad ram or shared video ram bios settings
07:55
So, I was looking for info on how to go about debugging this.. can I really pipe the clients' xorg logs to my server?
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08:14
<Guaraldo>
Good morning...
08:16
<cliebow_>
g morning
08:20
<cyberorg>
ciao see you all later
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08:21
<Guaraldo>
C U, cyberorg...
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09:35
<spacey>
people here use ltsp5/
09:35
?
09:36
<vagrantc>
sure do
09:36
<spacey>
it seems to work but when faced with ldm it doesn't accept keyboard input
09:36
just beeps
09:36
<vagrantc>
i mean, not everbody
09:36
<ogra>
beeps ?
09:36
wow
09:36
<spacey>
yeah when you press the keyboard ;)
09:36
<ogra>
who implemented sound in ldm ? :=
09:36
:)
09:36
<spacey>
:p
09:36
<vagrantc>
spacey: grep ^SCREEN /opt/ltsp/*/etc/lts.conf
09:36
<ogra>
spacey, feisty ?
09:37
<spacey>
nah, dapper with the ltsp5 tarball from ltsp.org
09:37
<ogra>
lol
09:37
unlikely that will work :)
09:37
<spacey>
we like exciting things
09:37
why would it not?
09:38
<ogra>
well, it will boot the client and attepmt to connect ... but you wont have any extra features ...
09:38
no lang/session selector in the login manager, no sound, no local devices
09:38
<spacey>
bah
09:38
well basicly we used ltsp4.2 in this setup
09:38
but since an x update, rdesktop from the thinclients broke
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09:39
<spacey>
quite silly
09:39
<ogra>
i would have backported edgys ltsp5 to dapper already if that would work *anyhow*
09:39
thats just being fixed
09:39
<spacey>
ogra: the bug with rdesktop?
09:39
<ogra>
a security fix in xlibs exploited bug in rdesktop
09:39
*a bug
09:39
<spacey>
fixed in security update or rdesktop?
09:40
<ogra>
in a security update for rdesktop indeed
09:40
<spacey>
ok :)
09:40
good to hear
09:40
<ogra>
just wait a bit
09:40
<spacey>
it was a really wierd probably
09:40
bit hard to track down
09:40
:)
09:40
<ogra>
and use feisty :P
09:40
<spacey>
mja this is server :)
09:40
and edgy was hell on server
09:41
ldap broke horribly for example and many other fun
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09:41
<ogra>
the thing with dapper is that most of the essential packages we use in ltsp are not in main
09:41
so i cant just backport it an dyou have to do amual setup and compile stuff
09:41
<spacey>
yeah but we like the LTS aspect :)
09:42
<ogra>
same goes for feisty backports to edgy ... pulseaudio was simply not in edgy
09:42
<spacey>
hehe :)
09:42
<vagrantc>
you can use --extra-mirror and such to add universe
09:43
<ogra>
sure
09:43
but the ltspfs packages in dapper are a joke :)
09:43
<vagrantc>
sure
09:43
<ogra>
you need the ones from edgy
09:43
<vagrantc>
so, backport ltspfs too
09:43
<ogra>
yep
09:43
<spacey>
ok we'll just wait for rdesktop fix :)
09:43
<ogra>
i probably should care for that some day
09:43
<spacey>
quite fun playing with ltsp again
09:43
was a while (it just works normally)
09:44
<ogra>
you should really try edubuntu feisty once ;)
09:44
<spacey>
is it sweet?: )
09:44
<ogra>
sure it is
09:44
sound via alsa is so awesome :)
09:44
<spacey>
i didn't follow it lately
09:44
oe :)
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09:45
<spacey>
sounds cool
09:45
<ogra>
well biggest addition were the new thin client manager (former student-control-panel) with desktop sharing function and vnc monitor of the client sdesktops ... and pulseaudio with alsa emulation
09:46
<spacey>
good work :)
09:46
<ogra>
most other developemtn was speedup related or bugfixing ...
09:46
gutsy should see a new ldm ... and finally a working ltsp-manager
09:47
<spacey>
your still the sole mr edubuntu or are more people working on the core stuff?
09:47
<ogra>
and real hal devices for ltspfs
09:47
<spacey>
i really hope gutsy well have more server love
09:47
<ogra>
i'm waiting for a second pair of hands to be hired soon
09:47
<vagrantc>
ogra: will the hal devices stuff still work from the commandline ?
09:47
<ogra>
no
09:47
<vagrantc>
gah.
09:47
<cliebow_>
meme me
09:48
<ogra>
nt without hal
09:48
*not
09:48
at least
09:48
<vagrantc>
?
09:48
<ogra>
gnome-mount is a part of hal ... it does the actual mounting
09:48
we need a commandline equivalent ;)
09:48
<vagrantc>
hrm.
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09:48
<spacey>
ogra: i got to go, good to hear from you and good to know it goes well. :)
09:49
<ogra>
the mount will still be accessible from the commandline as before
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09:49
<vagrantc>
does kde include hal integration?
09:49
<ogra>
yes
09:49
but not gnomevfs
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09:49
<ogra>
thats why i want to attack it a layer below
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09:49
<ogra>
xfce has also hal integration
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09:49
<vagrantc>
ogra: so, you're suggesting adding a hal layer to the existing mount, rather than replacing the mount with hal ?
09:50
<ogra>
no, i'm suggesting to cheat hal instead of cheating gnomevfs :)
09:50
one layer down
09:51
we can keep the old implementation as compile/build option
09:51
but i want a more elegant solution than having two hidden mounts
09:51
<vagrantc>
gah.
09:51
<fxrsliberty>
orgra: is there any rpm work on what you have done with LTSP5 and ubuntu that you can point me to?
09:52
<ogra>
nope, there is no rpm work afaik
09:52
<vagrantc>
there's recent talk, though
09:52
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-education-list/
09:52
<ogra>
nobody from the redhat devs conatcted any of the ltsp devs yet since eharrison dropped the ball
09:52
<fxrsliberty>
could you e-mail me the current src?
09:52
<vagrantc>
!integration
09:52
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
09:52
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+branch/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
09:53
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: try that
09:53
<fxrsliberty>
ogra:TY
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09:55
<ogra>
vagrantc, oh, we both had our releases ... time to merge code :)
09:55* ogra cant leave his fingers from virtualbox ...
09:55
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, i was just checking your mainline branch
09:55
virtualbox?
09:55
<ogra>
i'm playing wiht virtual thin clients all the day :)
09:56
<fxrsliberty>
we may have some thing that will interest you at http://en.opensuse.org/KIWI maybe usable for creating the chroot image?
09:57
<ogra>
vagrantc, a virtual maichine .. very much like vmware but 100% GPLed
09:57
http://www.virtualbox.org/download/1.3.8/
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09:57
<vagrantc>
ogra: cool.
09:57
<ogra>
fxrsliberty, well, you need any kind of bootstrap mechanism to create the initial image
09:58
that thing looks like its making snapshots of existing images
09:58
<vagrantc>
ogra: how's it compare to qemu + kqemu ?
09:58
<ogra>
i discovered it for iso testing for feisty
09:58
very very fast :)
09:58
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: it compiles an image based on a description file and the distribution source
09:59
ogra: check out the "netboot" process
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09:59
<ogra>
ah, so it actually provides a bootstrap mechanism ... then thats what you need
10:00
<fxrsliberty>
think you could help us merge it and get it running in opensuse?
10:01
<ogra>
well, all you will need is to add a plugin dir for OpenSuse in the server source ... then you add your stuff as plugins to it ...
10:01
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: ltsp5 that is
10:01
<ogra>
the plugins are simple scripts ...
10:02
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: have you read the integration URL ?
10:02
<ogra>
if we need to make any changes to the existing source to make it work dont hassle to ask here or file bugs
10:02
<vagrantc>
start with that, and then ask question
10:02
s
10:02
<fxrsliberty>
yes, and tried the tarball install too
10:03
<ogra>
the integration doc is so complicated ...
10:03
<vagrantc>
it's an order of magnitude better than what we had before :P
10:03
<ogra>
instructionas should be: integrate your distros bootstrap method into ltsp-build-client, create two initscripts in the chroot ...
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10:04
<ogra>
thats actually all thats needed ...
10:04
all fine tuning is up to the distro
10:05
<vagrantc>
yeah, i'm sure we wouldn't get any more questions with those instructions :P
10:05
<fxrsliberty>
i can think of a few now LOL ;)
10:06
<ogra>
well, it really requires you to know how your distro does the things ...
10:06
beyond that three points above all should be dont by distro tools ...
10:07
s/dont/done/
10:07
<vagrantc>
well, we need to explain how to integrate the bootstrap method into ltsp-build-client.
10:07
so we need to explain the plugins a little.
10:07
<fxrsliberty>
yea
10:07
<ogra>
i.e. X detection and configuration from the -setup initscript for SuSE will be donne by SuSE tools
10:08
well, indeed, but we have a very good doc for that
10:08
i mean the complicated stuff at the top ...
10:08
<vagrantc>
ok.
10:09
<ogra>
i wouldnt really understad it if i wouldnt already work on ltsp i guess
10:09
<fxrsliberty>
i definatly don't
10:10
<ogra>
i dint see how it helps integrating if someone is capable to build an nfs root by hand ...
10:11* ogra puts up a note on his whiteboard to think about better text there before sevilla ...
10:11* vagrantc doesn't understand which of the steps is too complicated
10:11
<ogra>
we should put the plugin stuff at the top with a good introduction before ...
10:12
and then go thrugh the workwise of the existing plugins ... so others see how they work ...
10:12
<vagrantc>
the first 4 points (other than the list of software to install) seems like a good overview of the process without getting into the gory details
10:12
<ogra>
basic configuration, bootstrap and early/late packages at least
10:13
well its says what to do to get it manually ...
10:13
but it doesnt say how to integrate it in the existing code
10:13
we should give code examples and explain the work wise of the existing code
10:13
<vagrantc>
well, it doesn't seem like a bad way to go to explain the general process, and then proceed to get more specific ...
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10:14
<vagrantc>
sure.
10:14
but i don't see how that's calling it "too complicated"
10:14
<ogra>
its not clear to me why i do 1.4
10:14
1-4
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10:15
<vagrantc>
"here's roughly what you need to do" is essentially followed by "and here's how to do it"
10:15vanya is now known as vanya_away
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10:16
<ogra>
hmm
10:16
<vagrantc>
the "here's how you do it" part could use improvement ... but the overall concept doesn't seem broken to me.
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10:17
<ogra>
well, it could probably just need some better intro, not sure ... i find it confusing ... and i know the code ...
10:18
<vagrantc>
i guess i wrote the bulk of the explanation for plugins ...
10:18
<ogra>
it happens every time to me i read it ... i usually look at it only every X months ...
10:18
if i look the second time it doesnt seem that weird anymore ... but i suspect thats because i know the code ...
10:19
<vagrantc>
and i guess otavio and i wrote the plugin system ...
10:19
<ogra>
yep
10:19
<vagrantc>
i tried to document it describing some of the things you would do in each phase ...
10:19
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: i don't have time to learn the bazaar system..could i be a pest and ask for a tarball of all the currant code?
10:20
<ogra>
the best would be to really walk someone through it and document the process along the way
10:20
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah.
10:20
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: i'll volunteer
10:20
<ogra>
but that requires an amount of time *i* currently dont have
10:20
<fxrsliberty>
;((
10:20
:(
10:20
<ogra>
i can give a hand but surely not 24/7
10:21
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: if you're not willing to take the time to learn a couple bzr commands, i certainly wouldn't want to spend time teaching you the ltsp system.
10:21
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: i have access to others that will help me
10:21
<vagrantc>
really, about all you need to know to get started is "bzr get URL"
10:21
<ogra>
fxrsliberty, yes sbalneav and vagrantc will be easily able to help too ...
10:21
<fxrsliberty>
vagrantc: this sounds silly but I've never used an svn before
10:22
<ogra>
the thing is to have a good doucumentation of this process only one person should do it ...
10:22
we'll surely get you ltsp in your distro in a team effort :) thats not the prob :)
10:23efra has quit IRC
10:23
<ogra>
a good doc would require someone who can tae te time to sit down and note every step you did and every step he needed to explain ...
10:23
*take
10:23
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: well, there's not a whole lot to learn, at least, not for checking out the code ...
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10:23
<efra>
join #php-es
10:24
<fxrsliberty>
ok, i'll do that today
10:24
first find bazaar installer
10:24
<efra>
Sorry,I miss the "7"
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10:24
<efra>
gosh
10:24
<ogra>
heh :)
10:24
<efra>
What's up with this keyboard
10:24
?
10:25
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: it's not available as a package in your distro?
10:25
<fxrsliberty>
don;t know yet
10:25
<ogra>
vagrantc, btw, if you have any ideas for UDS specs feel free to file them in LP ...
10:26
<vagrantc>
ogra: i signed up for the ldm spec
10:26
<ogra>
(that could also be something like "make LP not suck for DDs" ;) )
10:26
<vagrantc>
akldjglksdfg
10:26
<fxrsliberty>
is there a way to disable LDM can't understand it's necessity on a secure network
10:26
<ogra>
yes, i mean you are free to register your own if you want :)
10:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: it took me about 30-60 minutes of looking to find the ldm spec ... that seems ... unproductive.
10:27
<ogra>
fxrsliberty, every done a tcpdump of an XDMCP connection ?
10:27
*ever
10:27
fxrsliberty, you can assemble screenshots and keyboard logs from the data
10:28
<fxrsliberty>
no... but in an elementary school who is gonna hack me and what would they gain
10:28
<ogra>
XDMCP is the worst you can use from a security POV
10:28J45p3r_ has joined #ltsp
10:28
<vagrantc>
fxrsliberty: well, the answer is yes, you can use XDMCP.
10:28
<ogra>
nothing ... you still can use XDMCP if you like to
10:28
but we as upstrem, ubuntu and debian developers agreed on using ssh by default
10:29
<vagrantc>
did upstream really agree?
10:29
<fxrsliberty>
and a wise choice that is for commercial installs
10:29
<ogra>
if you want to implement it differently thats up to you :)
10:29
<vagrantc>
i thought we just did it :)
10:29
<ogra>
vagrantc, did scott complain ?
10:29
i think he uses it at legalaid
10:30
<vagrantc>
i remember there being a lot of discussion of disabling the encryption on ssh for performance reasons
10:30
<cliebow_>
legopland?
10:30tsurc has quit IRC
10:30
<ogra>
yeah, indeed thats still ongoing ...
10:31* vagrantc wonders how much documentation is lost due to not being able to remember the credentials for wiki.ltsp.org
10:32
<ogra>
heh, just create a new account then :)
10:32
jammcq should also be able to send you the data
10:32
<vagrantc>
it's easier to just complain on irc
10:32
<ogra>
true :)
10:33
<vagrantc>
oh yeah.
10:33
i wanted launchpad to integrate openid.
10:33
<ogra>
good one
10:34
<vagrantc>
but it's not really something i have any know-how. it's just a feature request
10:34
surely someone has already suggested it
10:34
<ogra>
well, then probably nothing you want to spec :)
10:34
<vagrantc>
i'll just try to file a bug in launchpad
10:36* vagrantc notes that it is already filed in both english and french
10:38sbalneav has joined #ltsp
10:38
<sbalneav>
Morning all
10:38
<ogra>
!s
10:38
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: mornin
10:38
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:39
<ogra>
sbalneav, every tried virtualbox ?
10:39* ogra is a walking advert today :)
10:39
<sbalneav>
Hello all
10:39
ogra: No, what's virtualbox?
10:39
BTW, ogra, see my msg in #edu
10:39
And apparently we've won an award :)
10:40
<ogra>
oh?
10:40
where ?
10:40mistik1 has joined #ltsp
10:40
<ogra>
how?
10:40
when?
10:40
why?
10:40
<sbalneav>
Didn't you see LaserJocks' planet post?
10:41* ogra looks
10:41
<mistik1>
woohoo!!
10:41
<ogra>
ah, the glde pony ...
10:42
*golden
10:42
\o/
10:42
hooray
10:42* ogra hugs sbalneav extatically
10:42
<sbalneav>
:D\-<
10:42
:D|-<
10:42
:D/-<
10:42
Doin' the wave
10:43
<ogra>
http://www.virtualbox.org/download/1.3.8/
10:43
its like vmware but opensourced
10:43
i'm having the whole desktop cluttered with vitrual thin clients *g*
10:44
<mhterres>
hello sbalneav
10:44
<sbalneav>
Morning
10:44
Oh, forgot to join -br
10:46
<mhterres>
hehehe
10:47
<ogra>
sbalneav, any spec ideas for sevilla ? i'm just starting to collect stuff and register specs
10:47
<sbalneav>
YES!
10:47
Lots
10:47
Ummm, let me send you an email.
10:48
<ogra>
tell me ... so we dont do duplicates
10:48
yeah
10:48
i have registered two already
10:48
<sbalneav>
gimme 5 minutes.
10:48
<ogra>
and two on the list
10:48
ldm-improvements and ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices are registered
10:48rjune has quit IRC
10:48
<ogra>
one i planned was ltsp-seed-profiling
10:49
*speed
10:49
aiming for a slimline kernel and a wa to speed up ltsp-client-setup and find general slowdowns
10:49
*way
10:50
and one for a thin-client-server-cd ... but that will likely get dissed by mdz
10:50sepski has joined #ltsp
10:50
<ogra>
(he doesnt like the idea)
10:52
<vagrantc>
a livecd server?
10:52
<ogra>
nah
10:52
a thin client dedicated ubuntu CD
10:52
with different flavours you can install
10:52
<vagrantc>
what would that really add?
10:53
<ogra>
a thin client, webkiosk, fat client or callcenter server out of the box
10:53
<sbalneav>
ogra: sent
10:53
<vagrantc>
ah
10:53
<sbalneav>
Oooh, yeah
10:53
ekiga as localapp.
10:53
Well, localapps as general
10:53
add that to the list
10:53
<ogra>
depending on network auth :/
10:53
like fat clients
10:54
that really needs to get in this time
10:54
<sbalneav>
yeah
10:54
<ogra>
and we have it specced already, dont we ?
10:55Avatara has quit IRC
10:55
<vagrantc>
can we re-add a discussion of network auth?
10:55gentgeen__ has quit IRC
10:55
<vagrantc>
or is it just an implementation issue?
10:55greg_g has quit IRC
10:56
<ogra>
there are already soem scheduled i think
10:57
*some
10:57
<sbalneav>
yeah, we'll revive the old spec
10:57
<ogra>
well, if it is approved you dont need to revive it
10:57
we can just implement it ...
10:57
i.e. i'll work on ltsp-manager but on the existing spec
10:58
so it wont show up on the UDS schedule
10:58freet15_ has quit IRC
11:00
<ogra>
sbalneav, fixing the swapserver shouldnt be a spec ... its a bug that it doesnt time out on its own ... lets just fix it
11:00
ssh/xdmcp merge is cool :)
11:01* ogra hugs sbalneav for the 6th point
11:01irule has joined #ltsp
11:02* vagrantc wonders if sbalneav's list can make it to the pastebot
11:02
<sbalneav>
ummm
11:02
sure... hold on...
11:03
<ogra>
8 has an approved spec ... no need to spec it again ...
11:03
(and a working implementation on my disk ;) )
11:03
<ltsppbot>
"sbalneav" pasted "Specs to work on" (12 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/105
11:04
<ogra>
so seems ltspfs will see some nice new stuff this time :)
11:04gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
11:04
<ogra>
we should extend 5 to "attaching weird devices" or something
11:04
someone wanted to have a bluetooth headset working here recently
11:05
<vagrantc>
ltspfs/gphotofs integration ? :)
11:05
<ogra>
ubuntu has all the mechanisms ... we should have a ltsp-extra-input metapackage that cares for puling them in
11:06
gphoto integration sounds very cool
11:06
<vagrantc>
again, more a feature request than any real know-how on my part
11:06
<ogra>
but thats something you can spec i guess ... you know the environment :)
11:07
ltspfs isnt so tricky ...
11:07
only some python scripts udev rules and the ingenous ltspfs tunnel ...
11:08
i was thinking about sshfs mounted homedirs in ldm :)
11:08
that could help with ocalapps
11:08
*localapps
11:09
and wouldnt add extra nfs exports or insecure data transfers
11:10
<vagrantc>
ogra: that's an excellent idea!
11:11
<ogra>
lets put it on the list then :)
11:12
<vagrantc>
wouldn't that just be an implementation detail of localapps ?
11:12
<cliebow_>
LDAP sounds good
11:12
<Gadi>
have you thought about temporarily populating /etc/passwd and /etc/group on login with: ssh server getent passwd > /etc/passwd ?
11:12* vagrantc wonders if debian-edu's LDAP auth infrastructure would be adaptable
11:12
<ogra>
vagrantc, only if we do it specifically for localapps...
11:13
<Gadi>
that would make use of the *server*'s auth setup
11:13
<joebaker>
Easy Fat Client.... How will they get around the gconfd issues?
11:13
<ogra>
vagrantc, yes, i looked at it already
11:14
<joebaker>
cliebow_ Yes, We use LDAP here, but not locally on the thin client yet.... that will be nice for local apps. Almost a must for us.
11:14
<vagrantc>
Gadi: and if the server's /etc/passwd and /etc/group aren't used for authentication? :P
11:14
<ogra>
Gadi, well, then we could have as well a ltsp-passwd script that copies /etc/passwd to the chroot
11:14
<vagrantc>
that's ok for gid/uid stuff, but not the actual password hashes
11:14
<Gadi>
vagrantc - still works
11:14
I used "getent"
11:15
getent pulls in from all dbs
11:15
<vagrantc>
oooh.
11:15
tricky.
11:15
<Gadi>
:)
11:15
<cliebow_>
Gadi:true...i true
11:15
<Gadi>
then, you dont worry about auth on the client at all
11:15
<ogra>
hmm
11:15
<Gadi>
and you dont copy any files over the network
11:15
<ogra>
right
11:16
<Gadi>
:D
11:16
<ogra>
that plus mounting home via sshfs would gain us all we need
11:16
<Gadi>
plus, you already have ssh plumbed
11:16
<ogra>
and no extra open ports or anything
11:16
<joebaker>
I hope PAM will be part of the authentication on the thin client to support LDAP.
11:16
<Gadi>
correcto
11:16
<vagrantc>
though ...
11:16gonzaloaf_work has joined #ltsp
11:16
<ogra>
joebaker, we use whatever ssh or gdm use
11:16
<vagrantc>
if a malicious user was given write access to /etc/passwd on the terminal ... they could do bad things
11:17
<ogra>
there is nothing using pam on the client itself ... for fat clients you would use gdm which uses whatever is configured in pam ... for localapps ssh ... same thing ...
11:17
<joebaker>
ssh can be configured to not use PAM. I think I've seen problems with SSH using PAM. Let me check /etc/ssh/sshd.conf for a PAM option.
11:18
<Gadi>
vagrantc: only the ldm user would have access
11:18
presumably root
11:18
<ogra>
joebaker, in ubuntu ssh uses pam by default
11:18
<Gadi>
which is locked
11:19
<vagrantc>
isn't the locking done by effectively editing /etc/passwd ?
11:19
using "passwd -l"
11:19
<joebaker>
sshd_config:
11:19
UsePAM yes
11:19
# Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with
11:19
# some PAM modules and threads)
11:19
ChallengeResponseAuthentication no
11:19
<ogra>
yeah, pam mount is a candidate
11:19
<Gadi>
vagrantc: so, we dont copy getent shadow
11:19
only getent passwd
11:19
<ogra>
tahst why i want t do the mounting from ldm ;)
11:19
<Gadi>
that way, no passwords, and all is locked
11:20
<vagrantc>
but ...
11:20
<Gadi>
we just need the uid/gid translation
11:20* vagrantc suspects there's something amiss
11:20
<Gadi>
we dont need the passwds
11:20
<joebaker>
gadi: instead of copying shadow or passwd use a caching daemon nscd I think it's called.
11:21
I'll check.
11:21
<Gadi>
why?
11:21
just getent on login through ldm
11:21
<vagrantc>
if you add a password hash in /etc/password, even with shadow passwords enabled, doesn't it allow the password?
11:21
we're trusting the user-run getent ...
11:22
which could produce a totally different /etc/passwd
11:22McDutchie has joined #ltsp
11:22
<joebaker>
nscd is the name of the daemon. It's great to have running in case the LDAP server can't resolve a query for a uid or gid that you've already requested recently. This will greatly reduce the load on the LDAP server too if you have hundreds of clients out there.
11:22
<vagrantc>
say "vagrant:x:0:0:/root:/bin/bash"
11:23
<ogra>
uh
11:23
root ?
11:23
/root i mean
11:23
<vagrantc>
yeah.
11:23
or whatever you wanted.
11:24
i think by trusting the user's gentent output, we're opening a security hole to gain root on the thin client
11:24
<Gadi>
only if a user can manipulate the auth dbs
11:24
<ogra>
add some pattern matching then
11:24
<joebaker>
nscd isn't running on our LTSP server that was setup for LDAP authentication against a remote LDAP server. I need to add this... Of course the one drawback is that changes may take time to propogate as everybody who has cached data will keep it for 5-15 minutes.
11:24
<Gadi>
which would be the hole
11:25
<ogra>
yeah, but you can also easlily catech uid 0
11:25
<vagrantc>
Gadi: ~/bin/getent that does a little sed action when calling getent
11:25
<ogra>
*catch
11:25
<Gadi>
vagrantc: *ldm* runs getent in my scenario
11:25
<vagrantc>
i guess you can call getent with a full path ... maybe that would be sufficient
11:25
<Gadi>
not the user
11:25
<vagrantc>
Gadi: runs it as the user through the ssh tunnel
11:25
<Gadi>
no
11:26
<ogra>
it has to
11:26
<Gadi>
ldm runs as root on the client
11:26
<vagrantc>
ah...
11:26
root can use the ssh tunnel ...
11:26
<ogra>
yeah, but how does ldm authenticate against the server ?
11:26
<vagrantc>
well no
11:26
<Gadi>
oh, i see you mean the ssh tunnel's getent
11:26
sorry
11:26
<vagrantc>
it's still using the user's ssh tunnel which runs as the user
11:26
<Gadi>
doing too much at once
11:26
so, explicitly run /usr/bin/getent
11:26
<ogra>
its always the user
11:27
btw we should add an ldm user ...
11:27
<vagrantc>
hm... still could be some ugly things.
11:27
<ogra>
to deroot it
11:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: could that fall under the ldm improvements spec ?
11:27
<ogra>
iÄD also like an initscript to run it standalone
11:27
yep
11:27
<vagrantc>
yes.
11:28
<ogra>
thats what it is about
11:29
(initscript -> doesnt mean i want to take it out of ltsp-client ... only for usage outside of chroots)
11:29* vagrantc wants it out of ltsp-client
11:29
<Gadi>
vagrantc: actually, you just need: ssh server /usr/bin/getent passwd <user> >> /etc/passwd
11:30
<vagrantc>
Gadi: would that catch all the group permissions ?
11:30
<Gadi>
and add it to the existing
11:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, why ?
11:30
it will only slow down ...
11:30
<vagrantc>
ogra: why implement it in two places?
11:30
<joebaker>
I'm very much against having a copy of /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow just put into the chroot environment. No modern program should be based upon /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow. Rather they treat the output of a command such as
11:30
getent shadow
11:30
as if it was /etc/shadow.
11:30
<Gadi>
vagrantc: well, do all groups, but only the user's passwd
11:30
<ogra>
joebaker, they would only reside in the thin clients ram ....
11:30
not in any actual file in the chroot
11:31
<vagrantc>
the idea is a beautiful hack :)
11:31
<ogra>
yeah
11:31
<vagrantc>
with both the positive and negative repercussions, possible.
11:31
<joebaker>
Thin clients could stay up for days/ months with old UID/GID information that was copied there from the time it was booted. Use a mechanism which authenticates quickly against the LDAP server.
11:32
<ogra>
no
11:32
<vagrantc>
joebaker: it's copied on login
11:32
<joebaker>
Or whatever authenitcation service exists. Getent and PAM will do this for you.
11:32
<ogra>
the line would be removed on logout
11:32pscheie has joined #ltsp
11:32
<ogra>
dont worry about the client side ... the server side is the evil one ...
11:33
<vagrantc>
it still would be better to do LDAP
11:33
<Gadi>
i think we can secure it
11:33
<pscheie>
morning all
11:33
<ogra>
were users put ~/bin/getent in place ;)
11:33
<vagrantc>
or one of the SQL login implementations
11:33
<Gadi>
and it would put a lot of weight off the client
11:33
<ogra>
yeah
11:33
<Gadi>
and once somebody gets auth working on the server, the client's auth works for free
11:34
<ogra>
finding a more proper solution but *just like that* would be cool
11:34
<Gadi>
regardless of LDAP/winbind/novell, etc
11:34
<vagrantc>
it's worth playing with
11:35
<ogra>
you could sshfs mount /etc/passwd as well and let ldm do a bind mount btw
11:35
<Gadi>
just because something makes C system calls, doesnt make it proper ;)
11:35
<joebaker>
The client has NFS access to shares on the server. In order for UID/GID schemas to work, we need to ensure that somehow periodic updates will occur to the Thin Client's or they will be allowed to write to things they shouldn't be able to. maybe your getent passwd|group|shadow trick would work as long as you set it up as a cronjob that occurred ever hour or so.
11:35
<ogra>
or a move mount
11:35
<Gadi>
joebaker: it would run on *login*
11:36
no need to cache
11:36
every time you login, it would get the auth info needed for the client side to work
11:36
<vagrantc>
if we switched to ldm user, we would want to reserve a specific uid/gid for that ...
11:36
<Gadi>
if you change credentials while logged in, already you'll break you're session in most cases
11:37
<vagrantc>
otherwise you could get weird results
11:37
<ogra>
yep
11:37
indeed
11:37
the debian maintainer scripts have hooks for that iirc
11:37
dh_something ...
11:38
<vagrantc>
in debian, we'd have to get approved for a specific uid/gid ...
11:38klaragen has joined #ltsp
11:38
<vagrantc>
the problem is maintaining the same numbers on both the server(s) and the ltsp client environment
11:38
<Lumiere>
can't you share the gdm number?
11:38
<ogra>
i dont think i need that n ubuntu
11:38
<Lumiere>
or the xdm number?
11:39
<ogra>
vagrantc, well if you standardize on a specific one that sholdnt be hard
11:40
in ubuntu user accunts all are above 1000 ...
11:40
i just have to pick something free below ...
11:40
<vagrantc>
gdm uses 103 on my system
11:40
<ogra>
106 here
11:40
<vagrantc>
ogra: i think in debian policy there's a range of pre-assigned numbers, and a range of random numbers for stuff like that
11:41
s,random,arbitrary,
11:41
<joebaker>
I have to say, I'm very happy to see authentication being addressed. I remember when a shell prompt on an LTSP terminal meant root access on the terminal. And UID 0 on nfs trusting networks is a pretty scary thing. Now shells in MueKow have login prompts.
11:41
<ogra>
well, i'll get the right ubuntu people to atted to help out there in the BOF ;)
11:41
<vagrantc>
ok
11:42
<ogra>
joebaker, not if oyu use them the old way :)
11:42
SCREEN_01=shell still gives you a prompt ...
11:43
because we assume thats what you want if you manually override stuff in lts.conf :)
11:43
<vagrantc>
well, it will give you a heinous shell prompt and login screen simultaneosly
11:43
<joebaker>
ogra: No, that's what I have, and I have a login prompt. Maybe it's because I set a password for root and a user of joebaker into /etc/passwd.
11:43
<ogra>
i have a password for root as well for debugging .... but i get a straight propmt ...
11:43
<vagrantc>
and LDM won't start without additional SCREEN entries
11:44
<ogra>
and looking at the code it cat be a login
11:44
<joebaker>
ogra. Interesting... I don't know what would be different.
11:44
<ogra>
vagrantc, right, having a SCREEN_XX entry overrides the default
11:45* vagrantc struggles with selecting flight info
11:45
<ogra>
ah got mail ?
11:46
<vagrantc>
yeah
11:46* ogra booked today
11:46
<ogra>
arriving May 2nd 16:30 (CEST)
11:47
<joebaker>
ogra: I have SCREEN_01=startx And that never worked to start X windows for some reason. 07 always tried to start LDM. I had to change the LDM script to the startx script cuz I like XDMCP rather than tunneling everything through SSH.
11:47
<vagrantc>
joebaker: try SCREEN_07=startx
11:47
<joebaker>
Sorry for the confusion.
11:48
<fxrsliberty>
vagrantc: 1 hour later and I still don't have a ready bzr for SLED 10 , which is partially why I asked for a tarball
11:48
<ogra>
yeah SCREEN_07 would have been right
11:48
fxrsliberty, if your chages are not in bzr we cant merge them ... thats why we insint on bzr :)
11:48
*insist
11:49
<joebaker>
vagrantec: A reasonable suggestion. I'll try it in the future. At the time I was shocked by the idea of having the display on F7 like the distros did it.
11:49
<ogra>
sbalneav, is the 4.2 ltsp kernel kit your work or jims ?
11:49
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: i'm sure the guys in development on the opensuse team would be able to do that but I'm on the Enterprise version called SLED
11:50
<vagrantc>
joebaker: putting in on _01 is likely to cause you headaches.
11:50spectra has quit IRC
11:50
<ogra>
yeah
11:50
01 is usually the system console
11:50
there is a reason why distros use tty7 for X ;)
11:50
and not tty1 :)
11:51
<cliebow_>
ogra:the kernel kit is i think mostly Jims
11:51
<ogra>
ah, k
11:52
i'D like to know how much info we could pull out of it for a -ltsp kernel package ...
11:52
<cliebow_>
al ot of that is tacking the initramfs on...
11:52
<ogra>
even though i'm not sure its a good idea to not use the standard kernel ... just for 15sec boottime ...
11:52
ah, k
11:52
thats not out prob ...
11:53
<cliebow_>
yes
11:53
<vagrantc>
yeah, a second kernel is not a burden we're likely to embark on for debian
11:53
<ogra>
well, lowmem optimization would surely help a lot
11:53
<vagrantc>
as that's an additional kernel for 11+ arches
11:53
<ogra>
and slimming down the list of modules you probe on boot as well
11:53
<vagrantc>
i guess we could just do a custom kernel for a couple of the more popular arches
11:54
<ogra>
well, in ubuntu its just another .config file and an entry in debian/control
11:54
<cliebow_>
vagrantc: you guys continuing ppc support/
11:54general has quit IRC
11:54
<ogra>
cliebow, sure they do
11:54
<cliebow_>
ahh k
11:55
<vagrantc>
cliebow_: i'd be surprised if it would be dropped ... it's the 2nd or 3rd most popular architecture, i think
11:55
<ogra>
well it *will* drop at some point
11:55
<vagrantc>
it drops if people don't keep it working
11:55
<cliebow_>
i'm just hip deep in ibooks here
11:55
<ogra>
since its not produced anymore in any popular systems
11:55
<vagrantc>
like m68k
11:56
<ogra>
i was totally against ubuntu dropping ppc ...
11:56
<cliebow_>
sure..m68k is Stone Age..
11:56
<ogra>
but nobody listened to me ...
11:56
<Gadi>
btw, just another plug for the getent hack: it would ensure that the uid/gid is consistent with the server to which you mount sshfs (thinking, of course, about LDM_SERVER != SERVER)
11:56
<ogra>
now we have at least a community maintained ps3 release with feisty :)
11:56
<cliebow_>
Gadi: you have me convinced..come on over and well talk it over during lunch
11:56
<vagrantc>
Gadi: well, whatever server you ssh to will be the one where you grab getent
11:57
<ogra>
yeah
11:57
<Gadi>
zactly
11:57
<vagrantc>
which would be proper ... sort of.
11:57
if you have multi-distro environments you'll likely get some weirdness
11:57
that's a corner case
11:58* vagrantc practices the art of pondering rare corner cases
11:58
<Gadi>
well, of course local apps will have certain prereqs ;)
11:59* vagrantc waffles
12:04
<Gadi>
well, i guess just the prereq of getent being in a particular place and installed on the ssh server
12:05
<ogra>
yeah, you should use a hardcoded path here
12:05
<Gadi>
the bigger qu is: how does one launch the local app from the server
12:05
<ogra>
ssh server on the client ....
12:05
attach to localhost:0 and just run it ...
12:05
<Gadi>
maybe: or maybe we redirect a port on the server through the tunnel
12:06
then, you wouldn't need to exchange ssh keys on an NFS mount
12:07
er, actually it would be an sshfs mount
12:07
nm
12:07
<ogra>
heh
12:08
<Gadi>
looking nice and secure all around
12:08
no passwords necessary on the client at all
12:08
:)
12:09
just have every user put a symlink: authorized_keys -> id_dsa.pub
12:09
in the .ssh
12:09
<joebaker>
IPTABLES even has a way to authenticate based on the UID of the owning program.
12:09
<Gadi>
lol
12:10
<ogra>
yep we used it in willowng for the local transaparent proxy ...
12:10
you can do funny things with it
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12:48
<Gadi>
ogra: do you know of any bugs in feisty wrt gnome hanging on login and then ctrl-alt-backspace and login again and desktop comes up?
12:49
<ogra>
Gadi, on an ltsp server ?
12:49
<Gadi>
on console login
12:49
from a regular computer
12:49
Ive seen it a few times now on separate hardware from fresh feisty install
12:50
<ogra>
no ltsp involved at all ?
12:50
<Gadi>
no ltsp
12:50
<ogra>
phew :)
12:50
<Gadi>
just standard install
12:50
heh
12:50
<ogra>
not my bug :)
12:50
<Gadi>
ok - but you havent heard of it?
12:50
<ogra>
well, feisty runs updatedb directly after boot iirc
12:50
<Blinny>
haaahhaa
12:50
<Gadi>
its not like a prevalent issue
12:51
<ogra>
could just be a heavy IO lag due to disk activity
12:51
<Gadi>
but not upon login, i hope?
12:51
<ogra>
i think its started by an at command ... or anacron
12:51
<Gadi>
nah - when it happens the hard drive light blinks once every 5 secs
12:51
not like a constant blinking
12:51
<ogra>
a bit delayed after first boot
12:52
no, i havent heard of that
12:53
<Gadi>
hmm...
12:53
<ogra>
i have a similar sounding bug with gnome-session in ltsp
12:53
<Gadi>
ok
12:53
I also need to find some way to expedite the Adaptec raid controller bug - still in feisty (and has been since dapper) :(
12:54
ogra: hmmm - may be a gnome-session bug and not an ltsp bug
12:54
<ogra>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/105709
12:54
it is both ...
12:54
ltsp not cleaning up properly and gnome-session dying on non existing sound devices
12:55
the gnome-session part *could* be related ... who knows ...
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13:46
<moquist>
ogra: you in here?
13:47
ogra, all: Any easy way to get flash sound working in Edubuntu Feisty? I was hoping that with the new pulseaudio magic it was all Just Going To Work, but it isn't so far...
13:54
<Gadi>
moquist: do other sounds work?
13:54
<moquist>
Gadi: yep. it's just flash (that I've noticed so far)
13:54RiXtEr has quit IRC
13:54* moquist tries 'FIREFOX_DSP=padsp firefox' with no success
13:55
<moquist>
...not that I read any documentation, or anything. Maybe padsp isn't what I assumed it was...
13:58
<Gadi>
moquist: are you using the Adobe flash plugin or theopen source one?
13:59
<moquist>
Gadi: whichever one Feisty installs when you say "Install missing plugins"
13:59* moquist is trying to pretend to be a normal user person
13:59* Gadi shrugs
13:59
<moquist>
np
13:59
<Gadi>
I would install the Adobe one system-wide
13:59rjent has joined #ltsp
13:59
<moquist>
I was just seeing if there was an easy answer I just didn't know about before I took off investigating this.
13:59
<Gadi>
and make moquist pretend to be the admin ;)
13:59
<moquist>
I guess I should check the wiki...
14:00
<rjent>
greetings, could someone assist me with equipment needed to make pxe roms?
14:00
<Gadi>
rjent: are you going into the business?
14:01
not much of a market out there
14:01
<jammcq>
heh
14:01
we've prolly sold 3 bootroms in the past 6 months
14:01
<Gadi>
rjent: buy jammcq's bootroms
14:01
he's starving
14:01* Gadi sends picture
14:01
<jammcq>
withering away to nothing
14:02
<rjent>
Gadi: well either getting in or need a reasonable place to buy them
14:02
<Gadi>
ah, well, I dont know if I would call jammcq reasonable
14:02
jammcq?
14:02
are you reasonable?
14:02
<jammcq>
depends on the day
14:03
<rjent>
jammcq: got a url or more info?
14:03
<jammcq>
http://www.DisklessWorkstations.com
14:03
what are you looking for?
14:03
<Gadi>
rjent: before you go out buying burners and blank roms, I would suggest making jammcq an offer he cant refuse
14:04
<rjent>
Well I was getting them for $12.00 a card but I am having communication trouble with that vendor in that they keep sending me etherboot and not pxe enabled.
14:05
<jammcq>
ah, we only have Etherboot, not pxe
14:05
why not use Etherboot ?
14:06
<rjent>
I need the menu that pxe can provide
14:06
<jammcq>
ok
14:09
<Gadi>
jammcq: do you have a service by which you will burn a customer-provided image to rom?
14:09kaminski-ltsp-br has joined #ltsp
14:09
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
ha all
14:09
hi
14:09
<jammcq>
Gadi: nothing official
14:09
we've done it a few times tho
14:09
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
jammcq: hey
14:09
<rjent>
I was sort of under the impression from rom-o-matic that etherboot could have pxe included. It that correct?
14:09
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
sbalneav: hi
14:09
<jammcq>
kaminski-ltsp-br: hello there friend
14:10
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
jammcq: ;)
14:10
<jammcq>
rjent: yep, a mostly-sort-of-pxe compliant rom image can be made
14:10
<Gadi>
cmon guys, /me wants to see some haggling
14:10
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
I'm getting a dhcpcd fail with a via rhine... with a thin client... can it be the kernel?
14:10
<jammcq>
Gadi: yeah, you would
14:10
<moquist>
Gadi: FWIW, padsp `echo $PULSE_SERVER | awk -F: '{print "-m "$1" -s "$2}'` -d firefox http://www.jibjab.com/originals/originals/jibjab/movieid/71 tells me "PULSEAUDIO: Unable to create stream"
14:11
time to go home.
14:11
<Gadi>
lol
14:14
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
I'm getting a dhcpcd fail with a via rhine... with a thin client... can it be the kernel?
14:17
<sbalneav>
Hello kaminski-ltsp-br
14:17J45p3r_ has quit IRC
14:17
<sepski>
kaminski-ltsp-br, might be that the initrd dont have kernel module for the card ? do you see earlier in the log of the nic is detected ?
14:18plamengr has left #ltsp
14:20
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
it was detected
14:20
the module was up
14:20
:(
14:22
<jammcq>
!s
14:22
<ltspbot>
jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:22
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
!j
14:22
<ltspbot>
kaminski-ltsp-br: "j" is (#1) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#2) jstraw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#3) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:22
<jammcq>
:)
14:22
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
:P
14:24
<rjent>
jammcq: may I ask why you do not use the image that is compliant for etherboot + pxe?
14:25
<jammcq>
because for every image we sell, we put it through a testing process, and that takes time. we get so few requests for bootroms, we just can't afford the time to do all the testing
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14:52
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Hi... Can I ask you a favor?
14:53
jammcq: The channel #ltsp-br is registered to a user not connected for more than 2 years... How can we get the registration with us?
14:54aburton has joined #ltsp
14:54
<cliebow_>
Guaraldo, who??
14:54
<Guaraldo>
sbalneav: Hi...
14:55
<sbalneav>
Hey Luiz!
14:55
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
;)
14:55
<Guaraldo>
cliebow_: (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Channel: #ltsp-br
14:55
(16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Contact: Marcelo_, last seen: 2 years 39 weeks (7h 51m 51s) ago
14:55
(16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Registered: 2 years 39 weeks (7h 51m 51s) ago
14:55
(16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Topic: -=- Projeto LTSP-BR -=- http://www.ltsp-br.org -=- Vejam as fotos do FISL
14:55
(16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Mode Lock: -s
14:56
<kaminski-ltsp-br>
2 years ago o.O
14:56
<cliebow_>
i guess it IS a job for jammcq:
14:56
<Guaraldo>
If the registration could be with me, it would the wanderfull...
14:57
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: umm, no clue
14:57
<Guaraldo>
ops... :%s/would the/would be
14:58* kaminski-ltsp-br is away: week end
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15:19
<Gadi>
ogra: ide cdrom drives in a thin client should work in feisty, right?
15:27
<sbalneav>
Gadi: Yepperoonie
15:28
<Gadi>
hmm... Im trying to help someone through a fresh install but no local dev
15:28
and it appears to be enabled in lts.conf by default
15:32
<jammcq>
hmm, Yepperoonie, rhymes with Pepperoonie, which makes me think of Pizza. Mmmmmm, Pizza
15:32
<Guaraldo>
Gadi: Does this person used MODULE_XX = ide-cdrom (XX is a number) ?
15:32
<Gadi>
no - is that required?
15:33
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Don't tell me about Pizza... I didn't lunch yet!
15:33
<Gadi>
what happened to udev automagic?
15:33
<Guaraldo>
Gadi: Well to usb-storage devices it is needed...
15:34
<Gadi>
really?
15:34
thats messed up
15:34
sbalneav: say it aint so
15:34
<Guaraldo>
Gadi: not ide-cdrom, but usb-storage
15:34
<Gadi>
no way you have to load usb-storage manually
15:34
<Guaraldo>
LTSP 4.2, Gadi...
15:35
<Gadi>
ah, im talking LTSP-5ish
15:36
plus, you shouldnt need that on 4.2, either
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16:48
<Guaraldo>
Ok, dude... I'm going now!
16:48
See Yah!
16:48Guaraldo has left #ltsp
16:48
<sutula>
I have the Debian/Ubuntu packaging of ltsp-server running.
16:48
Apparently, it always sets up it's connection over ssh.
16:49
I have no need of the encryption on my network (private) and would rather not waste the CPU (old machines).
16:49
Someone suggested removing the Debian version and using the upstream tarball, so that I would have control over how it's set up.
16:49
But I'm resisting bringing in non-Debian-packaged software.
16:49
Does anyone here know whether I can tweak the Debian version (say through config options) to avoid the ssh layer?
16:49
Other advice?
17:06nicoAMG has quit IRC
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17:26* sutula tries to raise ogra's attention to the above query, seeing he is one of the Debian/Ubuntu maintainers
17:28jammcq has quit IRC
17:30
<cliebow>
sutula:perhaaps the debian version supports screen_07=sttartx which will in ububntu use xdmcp instead..
17:31
<sutula>
cliebow: I can look...would that be a config option?
17:31
<cliebow>
yes in lts.conf
17:31
add an lts.conf
17:32* sutula pokes around
17:32
<cliebow>
just what ive heard implied here over many weeks
17:33
see the way it works...i say something.then someone that knows tromps on it
17:33
8~)
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17:33
<sutula>
cliebow: Anyway, I can at least figure out what's reading the .conf files, and see what options there really are
17:34
...it's an involved process to figure out what's happening when during the client boot process
17:34
<cliebow>
there is a a man page (in ubuntu anyway..)which desrcbes thte lts.conf options..
17:34
in like /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/docs//
17:35
cant remember exaxtly
17:35
ill turn my ibook on..
17:36Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
17:42
<J45p3r>
cliebow: still no raid support :(
17:43
<cliebow>
damn
17:43
sutuls: in mine /opt/ltsp/powerpc/usr/share/doc/examplse/lts-parameters.txt
17:43IRCzito_home has joined #ltsp
17:43
<cliebow>
sutula: in mine /opt/ltsp/powerpc/usr/share/doc/examplse/lts-parameters.txt
17:44
<J45p3r>
I'm sure there is a way to hack it, but I need to do a more complete backup before I try to go that deep
17:46
<sutula>
cliebow: I found an example lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples
17:46
cliebow: I'll mess with that...thanks for the ideas
17:46* sutula has to go make dinner, but will check back later in case others chime in
17:51cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
17:57
<cliebow>
maybe you can catch ogra's ear this weekend...or Burgwork in #edubuntut
18:09Burgwork has joined #ltsp
18:09
<Burgwork>
who runs the website?
18:14jammcq has joined #ltsp
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18:20
<jarhed>
hello
18:21
Has anyone tried out LTSPv5
18:21
<cliebow_>
yeah
18:22
<jarhed>
cliebow: Thanks for the help last time. I downloaded feisty and have the server up and running.
18:23
<cliebow_>
Cool!!!
18:23
<jarhed>
but the client keeps "kernel panic"
18:24
<cliebow_>
ohhh. so the kernel loads and iniytramfs loads..but at switchroot it screws up
18:24
<jarhed>
i'm gonna have to take your word on that...:)
18:24
sounds right though...it bombs after downloading from the tftp
18:24
<cliebow_>
d o you see a ton of messages.. maybe not
18:24
<jarhed>
yes
18:25
<cliebow_>
you can comment out quiet spash in...err
18:25
<jarhed>
although I don't know if I should have done the etherboot steps provided on the ubuntu community site?
18:27
<cliebow_>
heck.. in powerpc it is in /var/lib/tftpbbot/ltsp/powerpc/yaboot.conf
18:28
so in i386 it must be /var/lib/ftpboot.ltsp/i386/
18:28
something
18:29
<jarhed>
yes
18:31
<cliebow_>
anyway if you can grep for quiet or splash on that directory you should see more messages
18:32
<jarhed>
if I am using etherboot CD which image should the client use? pxelinux or vmlinuz?
18:32
<cliebow_>
vmlinoz
18:32
heh
18:33
<jarhed>
thats where I am confused... i followed the instructions for etherboot clients on the ubuntu site and ended up with a vmlinuz.etherboot image
18:33
much bigger....
18:33
<cliebow_>
pxelinux is just a loader..
18:33
it has to be piccolo
18:33
it points to a kernel
18:34
<jarhed>
what does?
18:34
<cliebow_>
pxelinux,cfg
18:34
<jarhed>
nope its a dir
18:34
<cliebow_>
but in the dir is..
18:34
<jarhed>
yes
18:35
it points to vmlinuz
18:35
should it point to vmlinuz.etherboot?
18:36
sorry for all the questions, I'm getting confused with all the documentation for 4
18:36
<cliebow_>
ummm. i need to get the i386 laptop..
18:42
ok..if using pxe vmlinuz is the kernel..if using etherboot nbi,img is the kernel
18:43
<jarhed>
nbi.img ?
18:43
ok
18:45
i took out the quiet but got no more info
18:46
using nbi.img ...still got a kernel panic
18:46
<cliebow_>
you can have my dhcpd.conf if you like..169.244.3.137/dhcpd.conf
18:46
<jammcq>
jarhed: what does the panic say?
18:47
<jarhed>
not synching: Attempted to kill the idle task
18:47irule has quit IRC
18:47
<jammcq>
before that
18:48irule has joined #ltsp
18:48
<jarhed>
EIP: <numbers> dqeue_task <more numbers>
18:48
<jammcq>
before that
18:48
<jarhed>
there is a long string of hex code before that
18:48
<jammcq>
before that
18:48
<jarhed>
unkown boot option
18:49
<jammcq>
c'mon, there's something causing the panic, and it's telling you
18:49
there ya go!!!!!
18:49
<jarhed>
start_kernel
18:49
<jammcq>
unknown boot option. what are you passing on the kernel command line?
18:51
<jarhed>
sorry ... where am i looking?
18:51
<jammcq>
how are you booting, Etherboot or PXE ?
18:52
<jarhed>
etherboot
18:52
CD
18:52
<jammcq>
what distro ?
18:52
<jarhed>
ubuntu 7
18:52
<jammcq>
7 ?
18:52
you mean 7.4 ?
18:52
<jarhed>
yeah
18:52
feisty
18:53
<cliebow_>
so for etherboot and options passed would be in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
18:53
<jammcq>
ok, possibly
18:53
can you you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebot ?
18:53
!pastebot
18:53
<ltspbot>
jammcq: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
18:54
<ltsppbot>
"jarhed" pasted "dhcp.conf" (16 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/106
18:54
<jarhed>
done
18:55
<cliebow_>
looks pretty much completely default
18:55Burgwork has quit IRC
18:55
<jammcq>
yeah
18:56efra has quit IRC
18:57
<cliebow_>
jarhed:so your server Is 192.168.1.254 perhaps?
18:57
<jarhed>
.70
18:57
<cliebow_>
k
18:58
<jarhed>
the last error was unknown_bootoption+0x0/0x260 -if that helps any
18:58
<cliebow_>
jarhed:i defer to jammcq..cause he is responsbile for creating it..
18:59
<jarhed>
hey thanks for all the help...couple of years in the Marines and I've lost some linux skillz
18:59
<cliebow_>
sure...
19:01
so if you look in the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 directory you see nbi.img..a simlink
19:02
<jarhed>
yes
19:02
to nbi.img-2.6.20.-15-386
19:02
<cliebow_>
to 2.6.20-9 or something
19:02
ahhh
19:03
and it might be over 5 meg..
19:03
near 6
19:03
<jarhed>
5.7
19:03
<cliebow_>
seems appropriate
19:04
jammcq: could this be a motherboard issue/
19:04
<jarhed>
it is an old compaq presario p1
19:04
<jammcq>
cliebow_: seems unlikely
19:05
<cliebow_>
that is a laptop?
19:05
<jammcq>
that bootoption sure looks odd tho
19:05
<cliebow_>
nooo
19:05
<jarhed>
negative
19:05
<cliebow_>
got anything else for a client to try/
19:05
<jarhed>
not yet
19:05
i could boot up a vmware instance
19:06
<cliebow_>
jammcq knows better about that..
19:07
how long between post and the error/
19:07
?
19:07
<jarhed>
couple of seconds
19:08
<cliebow_>
in secinds 8~)
19:08
<jarhed>
maybe 10
19:08
<cliebow_>
grrr
19:09
<jammcq>
can you try a different network card?
19:09
<cliebow_>
i dont think the kernel ever boots...i "could" find a nother kernel to try.
19:09
<jarhed>
only have intel cards
19:09
<jammcq>
oh? intel cards usually have PXE onboard
19:10
<jarhed>
well the machine would not boot from the card
19:10
cuz thats what i wanted to do initially
19:10
<cliebow_>
early compaqs are challenged..some will boot an etherboot enabled card..soe wont
19:11
for instance
19:11
<jammcq>
maybe there's a bios update available
19:12
<jarhed>
i am going to look into that...i'm using a CD to boot for now
19:12
<cliebow_>
i had 10 flat identical looking presarios...five wouldd pick up a crad immediatley..the other five with different bios number Would not
19:15
<jarhed>
well these are pretty rusty ...
19:15
the machines NOT the nics
19:16
<cliebow_>
heh
19:16
they prob have a 3com onboard nic?
19:21
<jarhed>
no nics
19:21
all came with modems
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19:40
<jarhed>
well whatever my problem is .. it's hardware related.
19:41
although slow , I am booting up on another system using the same type NIC
19:42
<cliebow_>
jarhed:i am sure that is right...
19:42
<jarhed>
s l o w
19:42
<cliebow_>
it would be possible prob to go back to 4.2..
19:42
alonsdie your ltsp5
19:43
<jarhed>
sorry what was that? alonsdie?
19:43
<cliebow_>
alongside
19:43
next to
19:43
<jarhed>
oh
19:43
gotcha
19:43
well ... the system died when trying to start x
19:43
<cliebow_>
intel chipset for video?
19:44
or nv/
19:44
<jarhed>
couldn't tell you
19:44
not nv
19:44
old acer aspire
19:44
<cliebow_>
Most chipsets are autodetected,,but not al
19:45
<jarhed>
actually it's still running, but lost the monitor signal completely
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19:46
<cliebow_>
tomorrow if you like i can tar up an /opt/ltsp/i386-4.2 and a 4.2 kernel
19:47
<jarhed>
sure thank you...
19:48
last one: ctrl+bksp kills the X, I can see the prompt; but then X starts up again; how do I set the minimal X settings?
19:50
<cliebow_>
if you make an lts.conf you can set xserver=auto or nv or ati etc for that client..
19:50
<jarhed>
i was about to ask about lts.conf
19:50
thanks...i have some reading to do
19:56
<cliebow_>
the chroot will be at http://169.244.3.137/ltsp4.2.tar
19:56
8% now
20:02
<jarhed>
thanks
20:03
<cliebow_>
33...should have don e the kernel first ..see if that much worked
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20:24
<cliebow_>
and vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2.gz
20:25
hm
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20:38
<youngin>
having a problem with localised soound will someone help
20:42
<vagrantc>
youngin: which linux distro?
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20:48
<youngin>
fedora
20:49
k12
20:49
i can't seem to get any other distro to work
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20:51
<vagrantc>
you've tried all of them? :)\
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21:52
<youngin>
can someone help me with local sound issuses
22:03
ok so much for getting help here i will keep digging
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23:37
<jarhed>
cliebow_: jammcq: Just wanted to let u guys know that I booted a thin client vmware instance and the display came up / although I can;t login
23:37
least I know it's those OLD machines
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23:53
<freemind>
someone can help with qemu or vmware???
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