IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 September 2007   (all times are UTC)

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11:29
<ace_suares>
!seen ogra
11:29
<ltspbot`>
ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 20 hours, 43 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <ogra> thanks :)
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13:21
<lns>
If someone made a song about LTSP, what genre would it fall under?
13:24
<vagrantc>
depends on the song
13:31
<lns>
but if you made a song and you wanted it to be all about ltsp, what do you think the song's genre should be?
13:32* vagrantc doesn't find the question meaningful
13:32* lns was just curious =p
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13:49
<cliebow>
Reggae!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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14:03
<lns>
cliebow, hahaha that would be cool
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16:50
<jammcq>
laprag: hey
16:51
<laprag>
hey Jim
16:51
<jammcq>
how's it going?
16:51
<laprag>
Good good
16:51
<jammcq>
cool. you still traveling alot?
16:51
<laprag>
been a while. yep, still travelling
16:51
got a well founded project in florida now
16:52
<jammcq>
yeah. any chance you'll be around boston the week of Oct 28th?
16:52
<laprag>
even an office in tampa :)
16:52
<jammcq>
wow
16:52
apartment too?
16:52
<laprag>
heh, not me, but my colleague does
16:53
i still stay in a hotel when i am there
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17:17
<joebob777as7>
hey is there a way to copy the xorg from my client to server?
17:18
what is the scp command?
17:23
sbalneav, you here?
17:23
<jammcq>
man scp
17:23
<joebob777as7>
i'm trying to scp to server but getting "host key verification failed"
17:24
<jammcq>
hmm, it should work
17:24
what are you typing?
17:24
<joebob777as7>
tha'ts what i thought "scp file server:/home/file"
17:25
<jammcq>
what version of ltsp ?
17:25
<joebob777as7>
newest running gutsy
17:25
it's an upgrade from feisty
17:25
ogra, you on?
17:26
<jammcq>
have you done: ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
17:26
on the server
17:26
<joebob777as7>
nope
17:26
<jammcq>
try that on the server, and then try the scp again
17:26
<joebob777as7>
still no worky
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17:28
<joebob777as7>
i also tried scp file user@server:/home/file
17:28
it doesn't even ask for a pass...
17:28
<jammcq>
try it with an IP address
17:28
instead of a server name
17:29
<joebob777as7>
permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
17:30
<jammcq>
ok, getting somewhere now.
17:30
<joebob777as7>
lol
17:30
<jammcq>
was that with 'user@'
17:31
otherwise, it'll use 'root', and you prolly don't have a root password setup on the server
17:31
<joebob777as7>
same either way
17:32
<jammcq>
hmm, is it asking for the password ?
17:32
<joebob777as7>
no
17:32
<jammcq>
odd
17:32
what user are you using?
17:32
<joebob777as7>
the user i set up the server with
17:32
<jammcq>
hmm
17:33
and you are using the IP address of the server, correct?
17:33
<joebob777as7>
yes 10.0.0.1 and i put in echo $SERVER and that's the ip it outputs.
17:35
btw how do i stop a command in console ctrl C isn't working i stupidly pinged server
17:35
<jammcq>
umm
17:39
<joebob777as7>
should i just reboot?
17:39
<jammcq>
well, that would do it
17:39
<joebob777as7>
i've tried all kinds of key combos...
17:40
rebooting
17:41
ok so back to scp do i need to rebuild image after doing ltsp-update sshkeys?
17:41
<jammcq>
umm, I really don't know. possibly
17:48
<joebob777as7>
this is so gay why can't something just work!
18:00
jammcq, rebuild image didn't work
18:00
still same error
18:00
permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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18:04
<joebob777as7>
jammcq, can i copy to smb?
18:14
jammcq, know how to mount smb?
18:15
ok can't mount smb in ltsp
18:16
can someone help me getting scp working?!?
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18:34
<joebob777as7>
cliebow, i'm having an ssh (scp) issue can you give me a hand?
18:34
permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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18:48
<joebob777as7>
jammcq, should i remove ssh and reinstall?
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19:03
<sbalneav>
joebob777as7: What command are you using exactly?
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19:04
<joebob777as7_>
can anyone give me a hand with my scp (ssh) issue?
19:04
sbalneav, ? you on?
19:06
<sbalneav>
yes
19:06
<joebob777as7_>
awesome! did you see my ssh issue?
19:06
<sbalneav>
no
19:07
<joebob777as7>
i tried scp file user@server:/home/file
19:07
permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
19:07
<sbalneav>
Server may not be defined
19:07
Use the ip address
19:07
<joebob777as7>
i also tried using the ip same message
19:08
and i typed echo $SERVER and got that ip i tried
19:08
i tried ltsp-update-sshkeys and no change
19:08
<sbalneav>
What's the server's ip address?
19:09
<joebob777as7>
10.0.0.1 or 192.168.0.2 both work
19:09
but echo $SERVER shows 10.0.0.1
19:09
<sbalneav>
what happens if you type ssh -l user 10.0.0.1
19:09
<joebob777as7>
think this could be an issue from updating to gutsy from feisty?
19:09
<sbalneav>
what happens if you type ssh -l user 10.0.0.1
19:10
<joebob777as7>
same error
19:10
<sbalneav>
It doesn't ask you for a password?
19:10
<joebob777as7>
no
19:10
<sbalneav>
Have you modified your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file on the server?
19:11
<joebob777as7>
no
19:11
<sbalneav>
on the server:
19:11
ps -ef | grep sshd
19:11
What do you get?
19:12
<joebob777as7>
root 5067 1 0 Sep13 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/sshd
19:12
root 9336 5067 0 15:54 ? 00:00:00 sshd: mary [priv]
19:12
mary 9344 9336 0 15:54 ? 00:00:00 sshd: mary@pts/1
19:12
richard 11033 12603 0 17:08 pts/3 00:00:00 grep sshd
19:12
<sbalneav>
Please paste the contents of your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file on the server to the pastebot
19:13
!pastebot
19:13
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
19:13
<joebob777as7>
http://pastebin.ca/699051
19:15
sbalneav, i can log in from another machine on the network just fine and it asks me to accept key and then for a password...
19:17
<sbalneav>
What is the ip address of the client?
19:17
<joebob777as7>
10.0.0.246
19:19
<sbalneav>
I know you can't paste it, but what's in the /etc/ssh/ssh_config on the thin client?
19:19
shouldnt be much
19:20
Host *
19:20
SendEnv LANG LC_*
19:20
HashKnownHosts yes
19:20
GSSAPIAuthentication yes
19:20
GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no
19:20
Rest should be commented out
19:21
<joebob777as7>
yup
19:22
should i remove ssh_known_hosts?
19:22
then try?
19:22
<sbalneav>
no
19:23
Try restarting the sshd on the server
19:23
invoke-rc.d openssh-server restart
19:24
<joebob777as7>
openssh-server not found
19:24
ssh is there though restart that?
19:25
<sbalneav>
yeah
19:25
sorry, so many different linuxs call things different names.
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19:25
<joebob777as7>
it's fine still same error
19:27
<sbalneav>
I'll try on mine
19:27
<joebob777as7>
ok
19:29
<sbalneav>
ok, works on mine.
19:29
do an ssh -v -l user 10.0.0.1
19:29
That should give us some clues
19:30
<joebob777as7>
holy crap want me to type all that?
19:31
i can't even see all of it
19:31
net authentication method: publickey
19:31
trying private key: /root/.ssh/identity
19:32
next authentication method: password
19:32
<sbalneav>
What after that?
19:32
<joebob777as7>
read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: no such device or address
19:32
<sbalneav>
ok, that's a problem
19:32
<joebob777as7>
authentications that can continue: publickey,password Permission denied, please try again
19:33
<sbalneav>
You logged in on SCREEN_02=shell?
19:33
<joebob777as7>
lol i'm using the same monitor for both computers...
19:33
yes i am
19:33
<sbalneav>
ok. Well, that's a bug then.
19:33
I'll have to look into that.
19:34
Here's what we'll do, short term
19:34
on the server:
19:34
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
19:34
passwd
19:34
(enter a password twice)
19:34
exit
19:34
then, an ltsp-update-image
19:34
that will allow root to log in on ctl-alt-F1
19:35
then you should be able to scp from that.
19:36
<joebob777as7>
ok i'll let you know
19:43
sbalneav, woohoo! it worked! ok also how do i stop something that has started in screen 2? ctrl c doesn't work
19:43
i noticed it did in 1 though
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19:48
<sbalneav>
Contro c should work, if not, we've got a problem with tty handling.
19:49
I'll have to look into it.
19:49
shell's usually just used for debugging, so it's not an issue, normally.
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20:02
<joebob777as7_>
sbalneav, can you jump into #compiz-fusion-dev please real quick they are telling me that this definately isn't a compiz-fusion bug...
20:03
sbalneav, i need you to back me up on this you understand ltsp better than i
20:10
*do
20:29
<sbalneav>
So, The guy who doesn't know anything is telling you he knows it's definitely not a compiz bug? :)
20:30
<joebob777as7_>
yea lol
20:31
well eventually i'll get someone that know's something.........
20:31
<sbalneav>
Yeah. Good luck with that.
20:32
<joebob777as7_>
thanks :(
20:39
i guess i'm just stuck with no answer... it is probably unlikely that this would ever get resolved without my pestering....
20:40
<sbalneav>
I'd bet 70/30 odds it won't get fixed even with your pestering.
20:41
<joebob777as7_>
looks like i've got 69/31 with pestering...
20:41
lol
20:41
i wish i knew who to talk to to get this resolved...
20:41
<sbalneav>
Ultimately, the compiz devs will likely say: running compiz on a remote display causes problems, don't do it.
20:42
Your boss.
20:42
"Currently, compiz doesn't work with a remote display. What do you want more, eye candy or cost savings?"
20:42
<joebob777as7_>
that's the answer i don't want... as it is compiz causes problems without fixing it to get it to work so i don't see how this is too much different...
20:42
neither. we want functionality that we don't have.
20:43
<sbalneav>
If she says eyecandy, then put in 5 full fledged workstations. If cost savings, then go with what works.
20:44
<joebob777as7_>
negative, desktop zoom, window transparency and more...
20:44
<sbalneav>
You still have NOT explained to me WHAT compiz gives you that a regular window manager doesn't.
20:45
Maybe I'm missing something, but every time someone shows me compiz, they never show me anything that I can't do with the regular window manager, other than the fact that it LOOKS fancier.
20:46
<joebob777as7_>
well for a start those three things. can you do window transparency on the fly make certain windows negative on the fly do print screens with mouse selection box in any program and zoom out of your desktops and see live views of all of them at once?
20:47
<sbalneav>
Ok, lets start with window transparency.
20:47
What does that do?
20:47
it lets you see another window through a window.
20:48
What's that buying you, as opposed to, say, putting the two windows side by side, or just switching them with alt tab?
20:48
<joebob777as7_>
allows me to type a document or an email and copy or read or watch something behind it...
20:49
<sbalneav>
as opposed to, say, putting the two windows side by side?
20:49
<joebob777as7_>
yes because you can't see as much when you do that and we will not have dual monitor setups
20:50
<sbalneav>
Sorry, I don't buy it.
20:50
trying to read something through something else is just going to lead to screw ups.
20:50
besides, how many things can you reasonably do at once?
20:50
But, whatever
20:51
I'm getting sucked into this again, and I said I wouldn't
20:51
<joebob777as7_>
not if we wanted to say watch the news or enter into our database program while we are reading an email from a client...
20:51
what aobut the live preview of multiple desktops
20:52
<sbalneav>
ctl-alt-left arrow, switch the desktop
20:52
<joebob777as7_>
or the print screen of your mouse selection?
20:52
<sbalneav>
switch back
20:52
meh
20:52
enough
20:52
<joebob777as7_>
lol
20:52
<jammcq>
joebob777as7_: LTSP isn't for everybody. Apparently what you need isn't something you can get with LTSP
20:53
<joebob777as7_>
jammcq, i can in feisty with old compiz
20:53
<jammcq>
ok, so use feisty and old compiz then
20:54
<joebob777as7_>
old compiz sucks and gutsy is better
20:54
<jammcq>
better? but it doesn't work for you
20:54
<joebob777as7_>
lol
20:54
<jammcq>
gutzy is not even beta yet
20:55
<sbalneav>
jammcq: it's up to him, let him persue it.
20:55
It's either an xorg bug or a compiz bug.
20:55
it's not a ltsp bug, so I don't care.
20:56
<joebob777as7_>
:)
20:56
thanks for the support sbalneav. i'll get back to you when i get further.
20:56
<jammcq>
my guess is we'll sit down with the compiz and xorg guys at UDS and see if something can be done. but that won't be for gutsy, it'll be for the next one
20:57
<sbalneav>
joebob777as7_: Hey, I got enough bugs to handle with the stuff I *AM* responsible for. I can't save the whole world. 'Specially as an unpaid volunteer.
20:58
<joebob777as7_>
very true sbalneav. need a donation?
20:58
;)
20:58
<sbalneav>
nope
20:59
<joebob777as7_>
well you can't say i didn't try
20:59
lol
21:04
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, need a udev rule that will select ANY cdrom.
21:07
ah
21:07
<joebob777as7_>
oh have you seen grouping and tabbing windows sbalneav ? that is a sweet feature
21:08
<sbalneav>
KERNEL=="sr[0-9]*|hd[a-z]|pcd[0-9]*"
21:08
<jammcq>
what's a pcd[0-9] ?
21:08
<joebob777as7_>
I wish i knew how to code. what languages do i need to learn to be of use?
21:09
<jammcq>
all of them
21:09
<joebob777as7_>
php?
21:10
<jammcq>
that's prolly the least useful to a distro
21:10
<joebob777as7_>
being facetious
21:15
sbalneav, what languages do you know?
21:19
<sbalneav>
joebob777as7_: C, python mainly
21:20
And, of course, shell scripting
21:20
<jammcq>
and sh and regex and Makefiles
21:20
<joebob777as7_>
ok in my spare time i'll definately do that
21:20
<sbalneav>
In the past, I've studied: perl, prolog, lisp, forth, java, javascript, php
21:21
My main language of choice for complicated things is C
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21:24
<joebob777as7_>
sbalneav, which one should i learn first to help me with the rest?
21:27
<sbalneav>
Depends on what you want to accomplish
21:27
If you want to write smaller apps quickly, Perl or Python are good choices.
21:27
If you want to get low down into the guts of things, C
21:28
or C++
21:28
ANY programming language you learn will make learning others easier.
21:29
<joebob777as7_>
ok thanks a bunch! last question. should i learn perl or python first? which is best?
21:30
<sbalneav>
heh
21:31
Either's fine.
21:31
Different people will tell you one or the other's better. I know python, jammcq's a perl junkie.
21:32
There's probably a little more example code out there for perl than python. Latrger development community.
21:32
<jammcq>
but... if you wanna get into object oriented stuff, Python would be better
21:33
<sbalneav>
Python has a cleaner style
21:33
<jammcq>
Perl does OOP, but python enforces it
21:33
with perl, you gotta really WANT to do OOP
21:33
<sbalneav>
bottom line: given task X, solution Y is implementable in either.
21:34
<joebob777as7_>
ok thanks
21:46
<sbalneav>
jammcq: So, I've translated jetpipe from python into C. And I had come up with an idea, and I've tested it, and it works, and I wanted to see what you thought.
21:46
<jammcq>
ok, so far I like it
21:46
<sbalneav>
I'm launching jetpipe from udev
21:46
<jammcq>
ok
21:46
that's the idea?
21:46
<sbalneav>
so, if you've got a // port enabled, or you've got a usb lp, they just launch a jetpipe
21:46
yeah, that's part of it.
21:47
<jammcq>
that's fantastic
21:47
<sbalneav>
here's the problem.
21:47
<jammcq>
so you could hot-plug a printer?
21:47
<sbalneav>
and here's how I solved it.
21:47
yes.
21:47
<jammcq>
I love it
21:47
<sbalneav>
hot plug, and it starts a jetpipe.
21:47
but.
21:47
<jammcq>
but... ?
21:47
the rest is just details :)
21:47
<sbalneav>
BOTH // ports and usb ports are lp0
21:48
<jammcq>
what is '//' ?
21:48
<sbalneav>
and what I'm doing is calculating the port num from a base plus offset
21:48
parallel
21:48
<jammcq>
ah
21:48
usb ports are /dev/lpX ?
21:48
<sbalneav>
/dev/usb/lpx
21:48
<jammcq>
ok
21:48
<sbalneav>
with a link of /dev/usblpx
21:48
<jammcq>
so what's the problem?
21:49
<sbalneav>
so, what I do is detect if it's a usb device. Base for regular // port is 9100
21:49
base for usb ports is 9150
21:49
so, first usb printer is 9150
21:49
second 9151, etc
21:49
first // is 9100
21:49
second 9101, etc
21:49
<jammcq>
heh, for the last couple years, "USB" IS regular
21:50
<sbalneav>
well, we can switch which is which
21:50
<jammcq>
I don't understand why you need a different base ?
21:50
why not the first printer plugged in is 9100, second is 9101....
21:50
<sbalneav>
Well, I'd have to calculate that somehow externally
21:50
<jammcq>
calculate what?
21:51
<sbalneav>
remember: i get a separate invocation for each lp
21:51
<jammcq>
so, somwhere you need to keep track of allocated printers
21:51
<sbalneav>
so, I get called once for /dev/lp1
21:51
right.
21:51
<jammcq>
err, allocated port numbers
21:51
but..... here's the trick:
21:52
<sbalneav>
if I separate them, with usb in one range, and // in another, then I don't have to.
21:52
<jammcq>
let's say you already have a printer plugged in and configured. it's lp0 and uses 9100
21:52
<sbalneav>
I just take base + device offset = port
21:52
yup
21:52
<jammcq>
then, you add a second printer, the new printer is lp1 and is port 9101. you configure cups, and everybody is happy
21:52
then, you reboot the client. the 2nd printer gets detected first.
21:52
blammo!!!!
21:52
cups ain't so happy anymore
21:53
<sbalneav>
well, you have that problem now, really
21:53
<jammcq>
yeah, but we dn't support hotplugging, so it's not that big of a problem right now
21:53
<sbalneav>
if you have two usb printers, you've got no guarentee which is usblp0 vs usblp1
21:54
<jammcq>
but, you can be assured that everytime you turn the workstation on, as long as both printers are powered up, they'll get detected in the same order
21:54
<sbalneav>
unless you coded a special udev rule to force one to a fixed offset.
21:54
The way I have it now, if you have 1 usb, or 1 //, it's fine.
21:54
<jammcq>
the problem comes when the first printer is not powered on
21:54
<sbalneav>
if you have 1 of each, it's also fine.
21:55
if you have 2 // printers, THATS fine, becuase it's settable in bios.
21:55
the only issue is 2 usb printers, and that's the same problem as what we've got now.
21:55
<jammcq>
well, it's an issue, but I don't think it's a show stopper
21:56
ulitimately what we need is auto-detection of printers all the way up the line
21:56
<sbalneav>
I guess the question is: do you mind the separation? or is it important to you to have the concurrentness?
21:56
<jammcq>
so cups doesn't have to be manually configured
21:56
<sbalneav>
right.
21:56
that'd be the next step
21:56
<jammcq>
well, I'd prefer 9100, 9101, 9102... but i'm not hung up on that
21:57
<sbalneav>
Lets put that one on the table for boston, knock it around.
21:57
<jammcq>
sure
21:57
just keep in mind, if you pick 9150, and you document it, it's hard to ever go back
21:57
<sbalneav>
Well, it'll be overridable
21:57
<jammcq>
is this going into gutsy?
21:58
<sbalneav>
No, I don't think so.
21:58
too many unanswered questions.
21:58
I want to hash it around first. But it'll be a good feature for the LTS release.
21:59
<jammcq>
yes indeed
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23:20
<sbalneav>
Woot
23:20
cdpinger translated into C
23:20
launched from udev
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23:20
<sbalneav>
That's one less program started on bootup, and it's a big one, since before it was in Pythin
23:21
err, python.
23:48
<mistik1>
sbalneav: how goes it?
23:48
<sbalneav>
Well, good, I think
23:49
Gutsy's going to be the best release of ltsp yet, I beleive
23:49
<mistik1>
good to hear
23:49
<sbalneav>
You?
23:49
<mistik1>
I'm hanging in there
23:49
Coding java of late
23:50
<sbalneav>
Cool, for work?
23:50
<mistik1>
yea
23:50
<joebob777as7>
sbalneav, is there a good way to install some wine apps and make them work for all future users?
23:51
<sbalneav>
eurgh. Not impossible, but difficult.
23:52
Best is to set up a secondary "drive" in wine, install the apps there.
23:52
<mistik1>
I wish I had some ltsp related work on my horizon so I could work on some integration, but its hard to find time between trying to eat
23:52
<joebob777as7>
ok well i'll give it a try tomorrow. my wife's making me get off the computer... good night and thanks for your help!
23:53
<sbalneav>
mistik1: yeah, eating's good.
23:57
<mistik1>
sbalneav: You know you and jammcq have been riding me for years about me saying i'm no programmer but go figure, It seems i've been thinking like one for a long time ;-)