IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 July 2011   (all times are UTC)

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01:47
<Gnoze5>
yellow
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08:49
<rickogden>
with fat clients and localapps, will they automatically override the server apps at startup if they're installed on the server too?
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09:06
<alkisg>
rickogden: fat clients OR localapps?
09:10
<rickogden>
ah, maybe I'm getting my wires crossed, I thought fat clients contained localapps?
09:10
<alkisg>
Fat clients == ALL the apps are in the chroot
09:10
Localapps == some are in the chroot, some on the server
09:12
<rickogden>
ahh
09:14
so any app on the server under fat clients are run using the local hardware?
09:14
<alkisg>
Any app in the chroot on the server
09:15
Not on the server itself
09:15
<rickogden>
oh right
09:15
<alkisg>
So e.g. you might not even have X installed on the server, but have a complete desktop in /opt/ltsp/i386
09:26
<rickogden>
alkisg: so I need to install all packages
09:26
on the client?
09:27
<alkisg>
rickogden: are you planning on using fat clients or localapps? And, on which distro/version?
09:28
<rickogden>
fat clients on 10.04
09:28
Ubuntu
09:29
but also have the ability for connection with NX
09:29
<alkisg>
Did you read the wiki page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
09:30
<rickogden>
yep
09:30
<alkisg>
After doing those steps, you'll have a complete desktop in your /opt/ltsp/i386
09:30
If you want more apps, sure, put them there
09:30
For NX, it's not LTSP related. You just install freenx or neatx on the server, as simple as that.
09:31
<rickogden>
yeah, which I've got already working
09:31
and moving from thin clients to fat clients
09:31
it's just making sure that both the client and the server have the same apps installed
09:32
<alkisg>
If you want to have fat/thin/nx access, yes, you need to keep the applications in sync
09:32
It's like maintaining 2 different installations, one=the server, two=the chroot
09:32
<rickogden>
yeah, that should be ok
09:32
and should reduce the load on the server
09:33
<alkisg>
Fat clients don't require any server load at all. Just disk/network bandwidth
09:33
Btw you don't need multiple chroots, just move your thin one somewhere as a backup, and start with the fat one from scratch
09:33
<rickogden>
that's what I've done
09:33
<alkisg>
Then thin clients can be booted from the fat chroot too
09:33
<rickogden>
does the fat client use nbd?
09:33
<alkisg>
Yes
09:34
<rickogden>
I'll implement that hack that you came up with last year to solve that problem again :)
09:34
<alkisg>
Which problem was it? With ipappend?
09:34
<rickogden>
the computers were too fast for the connection
09:35
<alkisg>
Ah. Now it's easier, you just download the new file, I've fixed that upstream
09:35
<rickogden>
so I added a `sleep 5` into the ltsp_nbd script after bringing the connection up
09:35
oh right, where can I get the new file from?
09:36
<alkisg>
Btw you might also want to disable nbd proxy (it sometimes hangs the clients) and re-enable compression, to make nbd access 2.5 times faster
09:36
<rickogden>
or is it in the repos?
09:36
<alkisg>
!disable-nbd-proxy
09:36
<ltsp>
alkisg: disable-nbd-proxy: To disable nbd-proxy on Ubuntu Lucid (10.04) and Maverick (10.10), follow the instructions in comment #13 in this link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034.
09:36
<alkisg>
On that comment above, the file you'll get fixes the "fast clients" problem too
09:36
There are full instructions there on how to apply the file
09:36
<rickogden>
just a patch file?
09:37
<alkisg>
A new file, that overwrites the old one. And some commands. Just follow the steps there.
09:37
<rickogden>
excellent thanks
09:37
<alkisg>
np, bbl
09:40
<rickogden>
haha, my blog post about this issue is in the launchpad thread
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09:58
<rickogden>
bah, after applying that fix I get: drm:drm_fb_helper_panic
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10:25
<rhce7320>
I have just done an upgrade of an Edubuntu LTSP system ^ have broken the PXE boot stage. I wireshark, I see tftpd return the error "...TFTP Error Code, Code: Access violation, Message: Forbidden directory\000"
10:28
The PXE stack gets a successful DCHP config before this.
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10:35
<rhce7320>
The tftp request from the pxe stack is (in wireshark) "TFTP Read Request, File: /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0\000, Transfer type: octet\000, tsize\000=0\000"
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11:56
<alkisg>
rickogden: that new udhcp script should be completely unrelated to drm problems
11:57
<rickogden>
alkisg: yeah, I've been digging into it, it's before that script even happens
11:57
hmm... why was it working on the old thin client script, but not the new one?
11:58
<alkisg>
What does this give you? head -n 1 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
11:59
<rickogden>
#!/bin/sh
12:00
change it to bash?
12:00
<alkisg>
No no
12:00
It's just that some people erroneously download the html version of the page
12:00
Is it executable? ls -lha /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
12:00
<rickogden>
I didn't download something for udhcp
12:00
<alkisg>
Ah sorry
12:00
<rickogden>
it was ltsp_nbd
12:00
<alkisg>
Yes I forgot, ltsp_nbd
12:01
So let's do it again: head -n 1 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp_nbd
12:01
<rickogden>
and it's the script not the html page (although I did that the first time)
12:01
<alkisg>
# NBD filesystem mounting -*- shell-script -*-
12:02
<rickogden>
yup
12:02
<alkisg>
It says that on top, and it's executable?
12:02
<rickogden>
ooh, not checked it's executability
12:02
ahah!
12:02
<alkisg>
No no forget it
12:02
It doesn't need to be, only udhcp needs to be executable
12:03
ltsp_nbd is sourced instead
12:03
<rickogden>
oh right
12:03
changed anyway ;)
12:03
<alkisg>
No leave it with the defaults
12:03
You don't want to cause other problems while trying to solve one
12:03
sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
12:03
Remove quiet splash from there
12:03
Reboot the client and type here the last 3-4 lines
12:03
<rickogden>
yeah, that's what I did
12:04
<alkisg>
And what do those lines say? They help to know at which point the client broke.
12:04
<rickogden>
it just hung before, so I removed that, and this is how I got the error
12:04
<alkisg>
So don't just write the last one, write the last 3-4 ones
12:05
Or better yet get a screenshot, if you have a mobile phone or camera.
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12:06
<rickogden>
do_group_exit, sys_exit_group, syscall_call, [drm:drm_fb_helper_panic] ERROR panic occurred, switching back to text console
12:06
that I can do, one sec
12:06
<alkisg>
All that's part of the kernel panic
12:06
The text above the kernel panic would tell us how far the client gets
12:07
Also if you have a client with a different graphics card, try if that one boots
12:07
bbiab
12:07
<rickogden>
it is the init-premount, eth0: link not ready
12:07
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init
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12:14
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, before you gave me some hints to get UDF formatted CD-ROMs working with LTSP local devices
12:14
You told me to compile the latest version of ltspfsd
12:15
I should do this in the client chroot, correct?
12:37
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: afaik you could compile it in any system with that architecture
12:37
Maybe you could even use the binary from fedora :D
12:37
!learn adding-modules as https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
12:37
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:38
<alkisg>
!forget adding-modules
12:38
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:39
<alkisg>
!learn adding-modules as If your clients won't boot with messages like "eth0: link not ready", maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
12:39
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:39
<alkisg>
!adding-modules | echo rickogden:
12:39
<ltsp>
rickogden: adding-modules: If your clients won't boot with messages like eth0: link not ready , maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules.
12:39
<rickogden>
thanks!
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13:01
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, this source compile business is failing badly.
13:01
At least inside the thin client chroot it is.
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13:15
<rickogden>
weird, it's exactly the same as the thin client
13:15
which works
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13:19
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, on the server itself I had more luck... I've just ran debuild -b -tc without errors
13:19
Now what? :)
13:20
Wait, no, I didn't run debuild... nuts.
13:20* Hyperbyte isn't feeling too good today. :\
13:20
<dead_inside>
lol its ok, its friday
13:21
<Hyperbyte>
debuild -b -tc fails with file doesn't exist debian/tmp/usr/bin/ltspfs
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13:24
<rickogden>
alkisg: sorted now, thanks!
13:25
<alkisg>
You're welcome
13:25
Hyperbyte: try those:
13:25
cd /tmp
13:25
mkdir ltspfs
13:25
cd ltspfs
13:25
apt-get source ltspfs
13:25
cd ltspfs-0.6
13:25
apt-get build-dep ltspfs
13:25
debuild -b -tc
13:26
<Hyperbyte>
0.7 actually
13:26
Not sure if that changes things
13:26
<alkisg>
Once you get the stock package to compile, THEN go on with getting the newer source
13:27
<Hyperbyte>
I think you mean apt-get build-dep ltspfsd?
13:27
<rickogden>
can I install new things to the chroot by doing a chroot and using apt-get?
13:27
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, no... you told me ltspfsd before. :)
13:27
Either way those are installed.
13:27
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: it's the same source package, it doesn't matter
13:28
<Hyperbyte>
:)
13:28
<alkisg>
You compile the source package and get 2-3 debs from there (not sure exactly, I don't use ltspfsd)
13:29
<Hyperbyte>
gpg: /tmp/debsign.VD02cudQ/ltspfs_0.7-2_amd64.changes: clearsign failed: secret key not available
13:30
<alkisg>
OK, other than that it produced some .debs?
13:30
(also, I remember some problems with ltspfsd and amd64, not sure what it was)
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
No, the gpg error is reason for it to abort.
13:31
Wait, yeah... the server host is amd64, client is i386
13:31
This isn't gonna work anyways.
13:32
<alkisg>
Which of the two needed the update?
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
i386
13:33
<alkisg>
No, I mean, ltspfs or ltspfsd?
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
There's difference?
13:33
According to you, ltspfs
13:33
<alkisg> bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk
13:33
<alkisg> sudo apt-get build-dep ltspfsd
13:34
<alkisg> debuild -b -tc
13:34
<alkisg> Those should get you an ltspfsd.deb to install
13:34
Or ltspfsd?
13:34
<alkisg>
OK you need cdpinger, which is contained in ltspfsd
13:34
So yes you want an i386 executable
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
I'm gonna retry this in the chroot
13:37
First error with apt-get build-dep.... Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)
13:37
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: which ubuntu version?
13:37
<Hyperbyte>
I did bind mount /dev though
13:37
Natty
13:40
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/cdpinger
13:40
Backup your existing one first
13:41
/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/cdpinger
13:42
<Hyperbyte>
How does that fit into all this?
13:43
<alkisg>
I compiled it for you, and I'm giving you the result :)
13:43
You only care about updating that single executable
13:43
<Hyperbyte>
Wait
13:43
I'm done now?
13:43
<alkisg>
Yeah, no need to compile anything if it works
13:43
<Hyperbyte>
Local dev will work with UDF CD's?
13:43
Oh cool
13:44
<alkisg>
That's what the commit says
13:44
<Hyperbyte>
By the way - compile goes wrong I think because the client has locale problems.
13:44
Remember we spent a whole lot of time trying to get LDM in any language besides English?
13:44
<alkisg>
You probably still have some conf file wrong...
13:44
<Hyperbyte>
root@terminalserver:~# export LC_ALL="en_US"
13:44
bash: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_US)
13:45* Hyperbyte shrugs.
13:45
<Hyperbyte>
If this works, I owe you a beer.
13:45
<alkisg>
Remember to put .UTF-8 in the end
13:45
You also need ltsp-update-image
13:46
(for cdpinger)
13:46
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah
13:47
root@terminalserver:~# export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
13:47
bash: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_US.UTF-8): No such file or directory
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13:48* Hyperbyte updates image
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14:14
<rickogden>
is the entire fat-client downloaded on boot?
14:15
<alkisg>
No
14:15
Only needed "sectors" are read each time
14:16
<rickogden>
excellent :)
14:16
as it's getting to be many GBs
14:17
<Hyperbyte>
How can I find out again what partition type a CD is?
14:17
Does it show in dmesg?
14:17
<alkisg>
Does blkid show it? Or fdisk -l ?
14:17
Or cat /proc/mounts ...
14:20
<Hyperbyte>
Seems to show in dmesg as well as soon as I insert a CD
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14:28
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, seems to work now
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14:28
<Hyperbyte>
I have two UDF disks I tested with, one was problematic.... but even on Windows it was terribly slow, and I saw some read errors coming from it in dmesg
14:29
Collegue has 20 disks or so he needs to work though, so gave him all disks back told him to retry... we'll see if they all work except that one
14:41
<alkisg>
Nice
14:53
<Hyperbyte>
:)
14:54
Thanks a bunch, making life a little easier on a friday. :)
14:54
!alkisg
14:54
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail..
14:54
<dead_inside>
amen, all hail the emperor
14:56
<alkisg>
Omg. Dear loyal subjects. Cut the cr** :D
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15:11
<Hyperbyte>
:-D
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17:31
<Roasted>
hello hello!
17:35
<Hyperbyte>
Hi.
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17:47
<Roasted>
hello hello
17:47
I assume there's an active PPA/repo for LTSP? I'm redoing my LTSP box and I'm going from 10.10 which was a test drive back to 10.04 to use an LTS.
17:47
I just want to make sure I have *the* most updated LTSP, etc...
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18:01
<Hyperbyte>
I don't think there are more recent Ubuntu packages than the ones that come with it
18:01
!ltsp-upstream
18:01
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: Error: "ltsp-upstream" is not a valid command.
18:02
<Hyperbyte>
:\
18:02
!source
18:02
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: My source is at http://supybot.com/
18:02
<Hyperbyte>
Not yours. :\
18:03
<Roasted>
how "old" is the LTSP on 10.04 vs 11.04?
18:03
<Hyperbyte>
Not a clue.
18:03
<Roasted>
I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything, ya know.
18:03
<Hyperbyte>
Just curious, why do you use Ubuntu 10.04 instead of 11.04?
18:03
<Roasted>
And I do know there was that bug I ran into that was supposedly published upstream. I hate to miss out on that fix.
18:03
well
18:03
I wanted to use 11.04
18:03
but since 10.04 was an LTS I just thought, eh, maybe I should?
18:03
10.10 has ran beautifully, though. so I really have no reason to switch to begin with.
18:04
it's just summer vacation so I'm updating stuff and I got a new server to toy with
18:04
since we're expanding it I wasn't sure if LTS was the best route to go or if 11.04 would do me fine, whcih I'm sur eit would, but just saying...
18:05
<Hyperbyte>
What do you mean 'LTS'?
18:05
<Roasted>
long term support
18:05
<Hyperbyte>
Ohh
18:05
Well I'm running LTSP on Edubuntu 11.04 and I'm very satisfied with it
18:05
<Roasted>
how many clients are you using?
18:05
and are you using Unity?
18:05
<Hyperbyte>
I've ran into some slight problems, but nothing this channel hasn't been able to help me overcome. =)
18:06
No, I don't use Unity.
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18:06
<Hyperbyte>
And I'm running about 9 clients or so.
18:06
<Roasted>
do you use gnome classic?
18:06
nice
18:06
<Hyperbyte>
Not very much...
18:06
<Roasted>
I'm looking to put about 70 on
18:06
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, use classic Gnome.
18:06
<Roasted>
I wonder if one server can handle 70....
18:06
it's a beefy server...
18:06
two six core processors, 48gb of RAM, 4x gigabit NIC...
18:07
<Hyperbyte>
I think the 4x gigabit NIC could be your bottleneck
18:07
<Roasted>
I'm doubtful, to be honest.
18:07
My current server only has 1x gigabit NIC
18:07
and it serves 30 systems just fine
18:08
<Hyperbyte>
Really?
18:08
<Roasted>
so if I double the clients, yet quadruple the NICs...
18:08
yep
18:08
<Hyperbyte>
That's cool.
18:08
<Roasted>
my current server is a dual proc/dual core HP G5
18:08
2.66 intel xeon
18:08
4 cores total, 12gb of RAM, 1x gigabit nic
18:08
I'm going to look into binding the NICs
18:08
perhaps 2 per lab
18:08
<Hyperbyte>
What do your users do?
18:08
<Roasted>
high school students.
18:08
mostly libre office, firefox, etc.
18:09
<Hyperbyte>
Ahh... well that's not too bad.
18:09
<Roasted>
general purpose, research, etc
18:09
the occasional flash user but nothing substantial
18:09
certainly no CADD or blender style stuff
18:09
<Hyperbyte>
Well you've done the maths it seems. :)
18:10
<Roasted>
well we ran into a snag last year
18:10
3 miserable failures of "windows based thin clients"
18:10
we didn't have much choice :P
18:10
<Hyperbyte>
I have no experience with that many users on one server, I deployed it at the company I work for, which is just a small business... I mainly chose LTSP because I wanted opensource and also wanted centralised management
18:10
<Roasted>
it was such a hit, the teachers want to see more
18:10
I have 3 installations of LTSP
18:10
all 10.10
18:10
8, 9, and 30
18:11
the 8 and 9 are ran by typical desktop computers... Dual Core AMD 1.8ghz, 4gb DDR2 ram, 1gb NIC
18:11
then the 30 by the G5
18:11
I'm dumping the G5, adding 30 more clients, and maybe 10 stragglers, all onto the two 6 core system
18:11
30, 30, (two labs) + potentially 10 random boxes = 70 on one server. praying it works...
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18:12
<Hyperbyte>
Stick around a bit, I'm sure there's people who can tell you more than I can. :)
18:12
<Roasted>
well when you break down the numbers, in theory, it should work
18:12
keyword, theory
18:12
if 1gb NIC serves 30 clients in my environment, why can't 4 serve 70?
18:12
certainly the processing power should be ample, and the RAM
18:13
I was just curious about the 10.04 LTS vs 11.04 thing
18:13
that's all
18:13
<Hyperbyte>
:)
18:15
<Roasted>
so do you not use unity based on personal preference?
18:15
or did you not want any 3d oriented DE's running via thin clients?
18:20
<Hyperbyte>
I've never ever used Unity, I switched from Fedora
18:21
So didn't see the need, other than that my thin client hardware didn't support it, LTSP said
18:21
<Roasted>
I see
18:21
Fedora doesn't even use Unity
18:21
they're on Gnome Shell
18:21
<Hyperbyte>
Technically it should be able to though, I think, but since I don't actually want Unity, I didn't investigate.
18:21
<Roasted>
which is what I prefer, but I think I'll use XFCE on my thin clients.
18:22
I don't need to give HS students any 3d eye candy. They'll get distracted. :P
18:22
<Hyperbyte>
Hehehe
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18:50
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, out of curiousity. What's the maximum amount of clients you know can log in on one server?
18:51
(depending on hardware specs of course, but I'm curious what the record is)
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19:16
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: no idea, each school here only has 1-2 labs, with about a dozen PCs each. So better ask in the channel, many people here have large installations.
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19:38
<Hyperbyte>
I did ask in the channel. ;-) I guess the question is in general then. :)
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19:41
<alkisg>
Yeah wrong wording there, what I meant was that it would be better if you directed your question to all the channel members instead of prefixing it with "alkisg:" :)
19:43
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, I got ya. :-)
19:43
So in general... what's the record for thin clients on a single server? :)
19:43
<alkisg>
Anyone tried xpra? Does it have any overhead when one has it installed, but isn't currently using it?
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19:52
<alkisg>
Hmmm not bad at all, xpra is way faster than vnc
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21:54
<alkisg_web>
vagrantc: a bit help, please? I'm trying to get this sid package to my wheezy: http://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-glx-legacy-96xx
21:54
echo -e 'Package: *\nPin: release a=sid\nPin-Priority: 400' > /etc/apt/preferences.d/sid
21:54
Does this look ok? ^
21:55
<vagrantc>
release n=sid
21:55
or release a=unstable
21:55
<alkisg_web>
ty :)
21:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: of course :)
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22:05
<alkisg_web>
Hmmm this doesn't look good... http://paste.debian.net/121637/
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