IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 November 2013   (all times are UTC)

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02:43
<bennabiy>
Has anyone issued a xen or kvm kernel as a fat client for the sake of a semi cloudlike VM farm?
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03:36
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: what exactly do you mean?
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04:22* alkisg waves
04:23
<alkisg>
vagrantc: are we going to have the ltsp day this week?
04:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i probably don't have time
04:26
<alkisg>
Ouch :(
04:26* vagrantc pouts
04:27
<alkisg>
vagrantc: We were talking with sbalneav yesterday and I was thinking that I prefer for libpam_sshauth to land later on in ltsp, so that we have a chance to progressively prepare the code base for it
04:27
I.e. to first do the "user-owned ssh socket" change, then replace xatomwait with either an ssh communication or with xprop -spy,
04:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it seems like it can be introduced in parallel, which would make it easier to integrate slowly
04:27
<alkisg>
then implement user-started pulse etc
04:28
Sure, I just don't feel ready to ditch ldm just yet, it would make ltsp unusable for a very long time, and hard to work on
04:28
<vagrantc>
so far I haven't seen anything that requires changing anything upstream, other than a few more hooks at runtime
04:28
<alkisg>
So, is it OK if we start making such ^ changes right now in trunk?
04:29* alkisg has tried user-started pulseaudio, it just needs transferring a cookie via ssh
04:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'd like to get one more upload in before, but i can always fork the branch or something.
04:30
alkisg: although if you think these changes won't be too disruptive, maybe it's worth waiting a bit
04:30
<alkisg>
They'll need testing, so it's probably better that you upload first
04:30
<vagrantc>
i might be able to get an upload in friday or saturday or monday
04:32
<alkisg>
So my initial roadmap would be: (2) always create the local user, (2) make the ssh socket user-owned, (3) drop xatomwait, (4) user pulse, (5) drop cdpinger etc and try udisks for automounting instead
04:32
s/2/1/
04:32
If you don't mind me doing those in trunk after you upload, that is...
04:33
And then (5) select thin or fat on login, not on boot
04:33
*6
04:34
Ditching LDM would be much easier after all those...
04:34
So maybe we could have e.g. ltsp 5.5 for jessie, and ditch ldm later on in ltsp 6
04:35
Ah, and (7) the ltspd configuration daemon
04:36
Those will need months of work, and I'd feel more confortable if ltsp continued to be production ready at every change, and not wait until all those are implemented...
04:36
vagrantc: agreed?
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04:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think those are great next steps, but i'm not wanting to commit jessie to 5.5 only :P
04:50
i still have this fantasy of making ltsp6 ready enough to be the default by freeze time a year from now.
04:50
and at least making it an option side-by-side with ldm 6 months from now.
04:50
ready by freeze time, at least for me, meaans ready for a few months beforehand
04:50
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't want to limit where ltsp is until jessie, I just want to concentrate on a specific roadmap, and starting with ditching ldm feels wrong, while that ^ sounds more progressive...
04:50
<vagrantc>
alkisg: agreed.
04:51
<alkisg>
I.e. I don't want to start with a clean tree and pull stuff over from ltsp 5 like sbalneav prefers
04:51
<vagrantc>
ah.
04:51
<alkisg>
I think that would make ltsp unusable for months - that's what I'm trying to get a concensus on, to start with those ^ changes first
05:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: those sound like good next steps to me.
05:00
<alkisg>
Cool, thank you :)
05:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and could probably target jessie with those changes sooner than later to get them more widely explored
05:01
<alkisg>
You could re-upload after any of those changes are committed, sure
05:16* alkisg wonders if all that mess in X01-localapps could be replaced with an `getent group $(id -G)`...
05:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think it was tried, but broke in some LDAP/active directory based setups
05:18
alkisg: we tried so many permutations, though, maybe you've hit upon one that might work
05:18
alkisg: i think it needed to support groups with spaces in them
05:18
<alkisg>
I saw 2 comments there, one for getent group not returning groups from pam_group, and one for spaces,
05:19
but we can't create groups with spaces anyway, so I wonder what we're doing there...
05:20
<vagrantc>
we need to find a better method for group handling than libnss-extrausers, as it doesn't handle groups lower than gid 500 :(
05:20
namely, fuse...
05:20
but any other system-based group, too.
05:20
<alkisg>
getent group $(id -G) | while IFS=: read gname x gid junk; do echo "$gname,$gid"; done => this should work with groups with spaces
05:21
Anyone here that can run that ^ in a samba/AD system?
05:29
bbl..
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06:58
<alkisg>
Is someone using LDAP or AD, and has groups with spaces in their names? If so, could you please try if this command works? It's supposed to list all your groups along with their GIDs:
06:58
getent group $(id -G) | cut -d: -f1,3
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09:55
<school_ger>
Hello, is there any change connecting to an LTSP Server without PXE?
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13:38
<claude_>
Hi I've got a strange bug with epoptes
13:39
I'm able to connect control clients login logoff shutdown but...
13:40
But screen sharing is blocked from me to logged users
13:40
Any idea how to fix /debug that ?
13:42
<alkisg>
claude_: are you using ltsp?
13:42
<claude_>
Yes of course ;=)
13:44
<alkisg>
claude_: to resolve this faster, can we use vnc for screen sharing? x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
13:48
<claude_>
Doubt on possibilities our bandwith is too small
13:48
Any log I can find ?
13:51
?
13:53
<alkisg>
launch both epoptes and epoptes-client from a terminal
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14:01
<claude_>
alkisg: Yes I've got that http://pastebin.com/588RgFKg
14:01
when i try to share my screen
14:03
<alkisg>
You don't have x11vnc installed?
14:03
...in the chroot?
14:03
or in the server?
14:05
<claude_>
alkisg: Yes, indeed
14:09
@ install done and it's working now :-)
14:15
alkisg: Thanks a lot. I'm asking our dev to add that to the build
14:16
<alkisg>
dev? which distro?
14:18
<claude_>
alkisg: http://eole.orion.education.fr/index.php/eclair
14:19
<alkisg>
Nice, if you guys need anything from us (epoptes devs), just ping :)
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14:21
<claude_>
alkisg: That perfect for me. I'm sure that the core team is already in touch. Cheers. Thanks, Bye
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14:21
<alkisg>
bb
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14:59
<SilentStorm>
Hello all!
14:59
I've searching a howto or document about using NX with LTSP 5.4.x can anybody have an idea?
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21:13
<markit>
hi alkisg, Phantomas
21:13
alkisg: this evening epoptes had 17 strings changed that needed translation for italian, now there is just 1, was the translation support in launchpad fooled?
21:16
<alkisg>
Hi markit, wait for Phantomas to answer that one :)
21:18
<markit>
alkisg: I've a question for you then, clients have "server" as epoptes server. Can the teacher (belonging to epoptes group) run epoptes from wherever he wants? I mean, can he use a client or has to run it from the server?
21:19
<alkisg>
From thin client => directly, from fat client => http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/fat-clients
21:20
markit: Phantomas is preparing a new release that will have the speedup committed (x11vnc -threads) ;)
21:21
<markit>
alkisg: oh, documentation, so good :)
21:21
ah, I thought was already committed, my bad
21:21
I'm using greek repos...
21:22
btw, I do hope to be able to deploy ltsp in one more school where has begun studying my older child
21:23
but anything different from the M$ path is saw as evil... except if iEvil
21:23
so I'm just crossing my fingers and wait (I've sent my proposal)
21:23
alkisg: btw, I've found a german shop that sells second hand hardware
21:24
I've found some "bulk" offers like 9 monitors of 19" for 200 euros or something like that
21:24
have you ever evaluated this option for "poor" schools (in italy almost all schools are "poor")
21:27* alkisg has personally installed ltsp in more than 20 schools in the last two months...
21:28
<alkisg>
But no, we don't usually buy second hand hardware, only ram for the existing clients + a brand new server
21:28
<bennabiy>
alkisg: is there any support for persistent home directories? (like flash media)?
21:28
<alkisg>
Plus a switch, so a school upgrades to LTSP with at most 500€
21:28
bennabiy: you mean local home directories?
21:29
<bennabiy>
I mean carrying around a home directory on a flash drive for travelling between labs
21:29
<alkisg>
So that /home/username is local, for fat clients, instead of using sshfs to connect to the server?
21:29
<bennabiy>
with DE configs and such
21:29
<alkisg>
You can put FSTAB_1='...mount the stick in /home' for that
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21:30
<bennabiy>
for thin client would it work?
21:30
<markit>
alkisg: wondering what you can buy with 500 euros... 180 is for the 24port gbit netgear switch, then you can have a "server" with the 320 euros left?
21:31
<alkisg>
markit: cheapest server = 300€ laptop, cheapest switch = 60€ with 16 fast ethernet ports + 1 gigabit, and DDR RAM for olderfat clients = 18€ per gigabyte
21:31
<markit>
sure I've the problem that kde requides double bandwidth to boot than gnome-fallback, but I've one cheap server and does not work that well (dual core, 4GB ram, ssd disk)
21:32
<alkisg>
bennabiy: there's no automatic way to mount the local usb stick in /home/username on the server
21:32
<markit>
mmmm good shot regarding the switch, is just that I'm very optimistic and hope gbit clients will be available sooner or later ;P
21:33
<bennabiy>
Unless it was mounted over the servers /home/username by plugging directly into the server, right?
21:33
by the lab admin ahead of time
21:33
<alkisg>
...yup
21:33
<bennabiy>
hmm, that might work :)
21:34
<markit>
but 100Mbs -> 10MB -> 1/5 of a local disk, sounds slow like hell starting libreoffice for instance
21:34
<alkisg>
markit: for 10+ clients it doesn't make much difference if the switch has 1 gigabit port or many. I'm waiting for switches with a 10 gigabit port ;)
21:35
markit: it's not like that
21:35
10 MB/sec, sure, but squashfs'ed, so that amounds to 25 MB/sec,
21:35
and, with zero seek time, so it's a bit like an SSD disk
21:35
<markit>
alkisg: why? compression does not work very well with binary files, no?
21:36
zero seek time for the second client you mean (since has been cached?)
21:36
<alkisg>
/opt/ltsp/i386 => 1 Gb, /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img => 400 MB
21:36
<markit>
btw, have you tried with a swappiness much lower than default?
21:36
<alkisg>
Yes, for the second +
21:36
Nope, have you noticed any difference with it?
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21:36
<markit>
maybe is because I seldom use windows, so my speed expectatino are too high ;P
21:37
<alkisg>
Fat clients here boot much faster than local installations
21:37
<markit>
alkisg: no, not tested yet, I will do some test then, I've to re-start the ltsp stuff if that new school accepts
21:38
alkisg: also in the past you told me about performances I was never able to meet, or at least I did not perceived to be fast enough
21:38
<alkisg>
markit: there's also a very easy way to put the i386.img image on the local disks, and tell ltsp to use that, if your disks are much faster than your network
21:39
<markit>
sure if KDE moves the 2X amount of data at startup than gnome fallback, the perception is of a much slower system
21:39
<alkisg>
!local-boot
21:39
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
21:39
<markit>
alkisg: I'm always fascinated my your deep knowledge
21:40
wow, C:\ LOL
21:41
<alkisg>
Usually if they have a local disk, it has windows in it :)
21:41
<markit>
that's my case with new school :)
21:42
only problem is that you must put our of the boot order, otherwise if they turn clients on before server they go back to hell ;P
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22:51
<WindowsFreeOneDa>
Does ltsp offer any type of application publishing like Citrix or only a full terminal desktop?
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23:12
<WindowsFreeOneDa>
Hmm, ok no bites, I am guessing I will have to look more at 2x or Ericom or back at Citrix to publish applications. Thanks anyways!
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