IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:32
<johnny>
dberkholz, atm it seems that ldm needs at least one patch for gentoo
00:32
it can be worked around by using LDM_SESSION in lts.conf tho
00:33
<AzMoo>
Hey, how much bandwidth does LTSP generally use?
00:33
<johnny>
bandwidth hasn't been the problem for me so far.. so i haven't checked :)
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00:35
<AzMoo>
I was hoping for WAN usage, but I just tested it with one of our guys interstate and it was incredibly slow and maxing out their 512kbps connection :
00:35
I'm just wondering how far we'd have to upgrade them.
00:36
<johnny>
at that point..you should do more webapp stuff..
00:36
freenx is an alternative
00:36
would be cool to have that in ltsp.
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00:37
<dberkholz>
pretty sure it has been used in ltsp
00:37
<AzMoo>
Is freenx another network boot thing?
00:38
nm, found the web page ;)
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01:02
<johnny>
dberkholz, i am confused
01:02
i can run startx in the chroot and have no config file
01:03
but when configure-x.sh does Xorg -configure -novtswitch :1 it fails hard
01:04
i'm trying to investigate using a real machine, but my laptop fails to find the pxe default config
01:04
while the vm fines it quite easily
01:04
finds*
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04:18
<laga>
johnny: then create a bootable pen drive which contains the kernel + initrd for your laptop
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04:19
<johnny>
laga, i suppose i could, but i would like to get it working the way it is supposed to :(
04:20
right now i'm trying to debug ldm
04:21
<laga>
yeah, but debugging five problems simultaneously must be a bit annoying :)
04:21
<johnny>
well i'm just working on the vm
04:21
i'll get back to that some other time
04:22
the default x config works nicely.. that's the odd thing
04:23
<laga>
are you on a debian-ish box?
04:25
<johnny>
no
04:26
<laga>
ah, too bad. i was going to suggest you could also use dexconf and xdebconfigurator.. but of course, that's not LTSP standard
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06:36
<muh2000>
damn xorg-vide-geode package came, but still no x working :(
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07:16
<gvy>
halo
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07:30
<johnny>
hi
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07:36
<muh2000>
lo
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09:49
<cliebow>
warrne: any of you get together yesterday? If so any notes?
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09:52
<warren>
cliebow: no big changes so I didn't post an agenda
09:52
cliebow: we talked a little bit
09:52
cliebow: petre said he would work on ltsp-server-initialize
09:52* warren doubts he will
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09:56
<cliebow>
warren:i am still poking through the bzr trying to get a handle omn it,...
09:58
<Q-FUNK>
ogra_cmpc: geode is in debian now. we just need to sync 2.8.0-3 in
09:59
Gadi: and this needs to be tested ASAP. one thing I already noticed is that the drvier doesn't successfully detect when it is launched as "amd" instead of "geode" and we have to figure this out ASAP.
10:09
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: geode is in but seems not to work:(
10:09
2.8.0-3 the version of the driver?
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10:17
<debayan>
cyberorg.. you there??
10:17
<warren>
muh2000: with or without xorg.conf?
10:17
Q-FUNK: does debian provide the amd_drv.so compat symlink?
10:17
<debayan>
cyberorg: i am having the problems with kiwi-ltsp
10:17
cyberorg: not enpugh memory for /mnt
10:18
cyberorg: the changes you asked me to make the other day
10:18
cyberorg: cplease tell me again
10:19
<muh2000>
warren: Xorg -configure; (edited the config to driver = geode) X -config xorg.conf.new
10:19
also without the Xorg stuff...
10:19
logs said something about mtrr
10:19
<Q-FUNK>
warren: not yet, but i tried it here and it doesn't work
10:19
<muh2000>
system lacks support for changing mtrrs
10:19
<warren>
Q-FUNK: odd, it works here.
10:20
<Q-FUNK>
warren: at least, with an xorg.conf, calling amd failed
10:20
but as soon as I edited xorg.conf to call "geode" it suddenly worked
10:21
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: damn why did that not work here?
10:22
<debayan>
cyberorg: you there???
10:23
<warren>
muh2000: could be other hardware specific problems
10:24
<debayan>
anyone here familiar with kiwi-ltsp???
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12:12
<warren>
ogra_cmpc: around?
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12:27
<generalsnus>
i could need some input here.. we currently have about 30 skolelinux thin clients and 2 ltsp server and a ldap server.. we where thinking about moving over to edubuntu soon, but we also want some workstations that could authtenticate together with the thin clients.. we have the choice to use a w2k3 server or a ldap server(needs usr/pass sync from AD)
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12:39
<klausade>
generalsnus: why move from Skolelinux? why consider using ldap if you already have a AD (that you must sync from)?
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12:45
<generalsnus>
atm, we have seperate usr/passon thin clients than our domain .. and the reason for moving to edubuntu..seems there is a lot more devloping there, and a lot more support.. and we also wanna add edubuntu thick klients in the mix.. we are just unsure how we shoul get em all to authenticate
12:45
passon=password
12:45
damn typos :P
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12:55
<klausade>
generalsnus: on what do you need input?I just got home from Spain doing debian-edu/skolelinux development, lots of stuff going on. maybe irc channel #ldap is better for the ldap stuff.
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14:07
<muh2000>
why wont my selfbaked kernel not boot on my box but it does in a virtual machine? :/
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14:10
<muh2000>
when i watch traffic with iptraf there are also lots of packages.
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15:21
<hotdog003>
Hey, I have a thin client that won't boot up. It gets to the "ubuntu" usplash, but then doesn't do anything. Wireshark reveals that the only packets that got through are for the TFTP kernel transfer. What's more, the light on my network card goes out so it thinks the cable's disconnected, but it's not. Any ideas?
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15:21
<johnny>
hotdog003, disable the splash screen and see what happens?
15:22
remove it from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
15:22
splash and quiet
15:22
<hotdog003>
Ok
15:22
<johnny>
don't forget to put it back tho
15:24
<hotdog003>
Oh. It didn't detect the ethernet card. "eth0: SIOCGIFINDEX: No such device" and then ipconfig says "no devices to configure". Snaps and dangs. I guess I need to copy the module over, huh?
15:24
<johnny>
that's odd
15:24
rarely is that a problem with distro kernels
15:24
<hotdog003>
It starts just fine with an ubuntu hardy beta CD. I'll see what make and model the card is.
15:27
<laga>
maybe the module for the network card isn't in the initrd
15:28
<hotdog003>
Yeah, that would explain it. Let's see.
15:28
Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88E8050 PCI-E ASF Gigabit Ethernet Controller.
15:28
D'oh.
15:29
Apparently, it'd controlled by the "sky2" module.
15:33
Ok, added to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules, then I'm doing an update-initramfs, then all I need to do is a sudo ltsp-update-kernels... Thanks, guys!
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15:34
<laga>
hotdog003: you need to add it to /opt/ltsp/i386//etc/initramfs-tools/modules
15:34
just sayin'
15:34
<hotdog003>
Yeah, that's what I meant...
15:34
...oh...
15:34
No wonder it doesn't work.
15:35
HOw'd you guess? >_<
15:36
<laga>
it's not that obvious :)
15:37
hotdog003: you best sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
15:37
then update-initramfs will work as well
15:37
<hotdog003>
Ok
15:37
Thank you! It boots right up.
15:37
<laga>
great!
15:37
<hotdog003>
I appreciate all your help. Would you suggest filing a bug?
15:38
This was a strange problem, but I'm not sure if I was the only one who experienced it.
15:38
<laga>
hotdog003: i'd file a bug. i think initramfs-tools would be the correct candidate
15:38
hotdog003: you might want to file it against ltsp as well, just to be sure :)
15:39
<hotdog003>
Ok.
15:39
Will do! Thanks again.
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16:18
<muh2000>
wow after 1/2 an hour or something the system boots ^^
16:20
and stops at a _ screen
16:20
(instead of x)
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17:44
<moellerdk>
Hello everyone... I'm trying to get LTSP to work with an NFS-mounted root. I've followed this guide; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS (section named: Reverting to NFS if you want to).
17:45
What I need is to mount my root as read-write and not just read-only. How do I do that?
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18:11
<johnny>
why?
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18:19
<moellerdk>
johnny: Because I have a diskless client needing to run off of my ltsp-server.
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18:25
<chup>
please excuse the flod
18:25
flood
18:26
It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I report the
18:26
> passing of Geoffrey (Monkey) Bennett who collapsed last night
18:26
> while jogging and couldn't be revived. Geoffrey is survived
18:26
> by his wife Jennifer and daughter Ruth.
18:26
>
18:26
> His funeral will be held in Austin, Texas later this week.
18:26
> Details will be provided when available for anyone wishing to attend.
18:26
>
18:26
> Please let the rest of the security community know.
18:26
>
18:26
> He was a good friend and will be missed.
18:26
>
18:26
he was a ltsp guy too
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18:32
<chup>
jim did you see that?
18:33
<jammcq>
ummm, see what?
18:33
hmm
18:33
<chup>
It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I report the
18:33
> passing of Geoffrey (Monkey) Bennett who collapsed last night
18:33
> while jogging and couldn't be revived. Geoffrey is survived
18:33
> by his wife Jennifer and daughter Ruth.
18:33
>
18:33
> His funeral will be held in Austin, Texas later this week.
18:33
> Details will be provided when available for anyone wishing to attend.
18:33
>
18:33
<jammcq>
just saw your email
18:33
<chup>
> Please let the rest of the security community know.
18:33
>
18:33
> He was a good friend and will be missed.
18:33
>
18:33
ahh
18:33
<jammcq>
is that the guy who worked in DC ?
18:34
<chup>
yup
18:34
<jammcq>
no shit
18:34
young guy
18:34
<chup>
ya
18:34
<jammcq>
that does it, I'm NOT going jogging
18:34
sorry
18:34
<chup>
heheheh
18:34
<jammcq>
bad timing
18:34
wow
18:34
that's tragic
18:34
<chup>
he was totally fit.
18:34
<jammcq>
yeah
18:34
shocking surprise
18:36
<chup>
the austin linux community is freaking
18:37
you know any other projects ot channels that might know him?
18:38
<jammcq>
hmm
18:38
<muh2000>
now i have the geode 2.8 driver but still, when X tries to load -> black screen :(
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18:42
<agliodbs>
ltsp at FISL?
18:42
<jammcq>
agliodbs: hey
18:42
I'll be there
18:42
you going?
18:42
<vagrantc>
warren: i've been traveling the past two days... i've got some comments regarding the Xsession stuff ...
18:42
<warren>
vagrantc: good
18:42
<vagrantc>
warren: but i'll need a bit to catch up with everything.
18:43* vagrantc waves from nyc
18:43
<agliodbs>
jammcq: yep
18:43
<jammcq>
vagrantc: still in NYC, eh?
18:43
agliodbs: cool. well, I'll be going, if my visa arrives
18:43
<vagrantc>
jammcq: for the last 4 hours or so, yeah.
18:43* jammcq waits nervously
18:43
<agliodbs>
jammcq: yeah, don't that make you nervous
18:43
when did you send it in?
18:44
<jammcq>
agliodbs: last week. I sent it to a visa service to also get my passport renewed
18:44
turns out if you pay them enough money, they'll make sure it all works out
18:44
<agliodbs>
gah
18:44
that has to be expensive
18:44
I had to get extra passport pages rush for China
18:44
cost me $400
18:44
<jammcq>
the total will run about $600
18:44
<agliodbs>
yeah
18:45
mind you, the brazil visa is $180 of that
18:45
<jammcq>
I could have gotten more pages, but it expires in 2 yrs anyway, and it takes the same amount of time to either renew it, or get more pages. so...
18:46
<agliodbs>
yeah
18:46
I was annoyed with the service that they didn't tell me a renewal was the same cost
18:47
although mine doesn't expire for 3 years
18:49* vagrantc thinks "set -e" would be a good simple start for autogen.sh
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19:22
<johnny>
hi
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19:26
<johnny>
hmm.. something odd happens with Xorg -configure -novtswitch :1
19:26
it tries switching vts anywas
19:27
and never comes back
19:28
<vagrantc>
yeah, i've seen that.
19:29
<johnny>
i just get left with a black screen
19:29
and since vbox doesn't have hostkey + ctrl + alt yet
19:29
:(
19:29
<vagrantc>
?
19:30
<johnny>
or whatever the sequence will be to do ctrl + alt +f1 inside a vbox
19:30
it's coming in the next release
19:30
<vagrantc>
hostkey-F# is equivalent to ctrl-alt-F#
19:30
<johnny>
oh?
19:30
<vagrantc>
since 1.5.x
19:31
i think i started with 1.5.5 ...
19:31
<johnny>
aha
19:32
<vagrantc>
so, i've got some nice patches for ltspfs i worked on the plane ...
19:32
runs cdpinger and ltspfsd from add_fstab_entry, and needs no changes to the udev rules.
19:33
seems to work well ... but need to support LOCALDEV booleans...
19:35
needs to work even if ltsp-client* isn't installed... i guess we could have a LOCALDEV variable and if boolean_is_true isn't available, just check against "True" ...
19:35
<johnny>
uggh.
19:35
doesn't matter.. the screen is dead :(
19:36
host-F# works before i run Xorg -configure -novtswitch :1
19:36
but not after
19:36
<vagrantc>
yeah, i've encountered that as well ...
19:36
<johnny>
and? :)
19:37
<vagrantc>
set CONFIGURE_X=false
19:37
<johnny>
lol
19:37
<vagrantc>
rm /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf
19:37
ta-da.
19:37
<johnny>
but it'll still add all the xorg opts?
19:37
X_COLOR_DEPTH , etc
19:37
<vagrantc>
?
19:37
no, it won't respect those.
19:38
<johnny>
oh :(
19:38
<vagrantc>
have you gotten ldm booting at all yet?
19:38
<johnny>
almost
19:38
i get some assertion errors
19:38
i get X cursor
19:38
but nothing else
19:38
i've been trying to gdb it , almost got somewhere last night before i passed out
19:38
<vagrantc>
well, that's a start.
19:38
<johnny>
running a manual startx is fine
19:38
btw
19:39
<vagrantc>
i would put off X configuration for getting ldm working first.
19:39
<johnny>
oh.. i remember what happened
19:39
i couldn't figure out why it couldn't find $SERVER
19:39
even though i see it in # env
19:39
oh.. there's a tiny patch needed for gentoo support
19:39
luckily i'm able to manually override it
19:40
LDM_SESSION=/etc/X11/Sessions/Xsession
19:40
that's what it is for gentoo
19:40
<vagrantc>
yeah.
19:40
seems like nearly every distro is different.
19:40
<johnny>
what's the /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf or whatever
19:40
err up with*
19:41
<vagrantc>
johnny: you see the thread on ltsp-developer regarding the Xsession locations?
19:41
<johnny>
i see that failing when i tried to run the screen_session "07" manually
19:41
oh.. i haven't subbed to that yet
19:41
<vagrantc>
/var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf is where we should move our configuration scripts to use.
19:41
if it's present, the screen scripts will use that.
19:41
<johnny>
it's too bad you can't tell X where to save the -configure
19:42
Xorg -configure -config /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
19:42
or something
19:42
<vagrantc>
this allows for autodetection, but if configuration values that require generating an xorg.conf file are present, it can generate it
19:42
<johnny>
so.. does that mean we won't use /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
19:42
or won't use xorg.conf.new ?
19:43
<vagrantc>
yes and no
19:43
if you prefer to use /etc/X11/xorg.conf, then it's typically the default place X.org looks for a configuration file, so it will get used.
19:43
if you generate /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf, it will get used by the screen scripts.
19:44
but if you prefer to generate /etc/X11/xorg.conf, that'll work as long as you don't also generate /var/run/ltsp-xorg.cocnf
19:45
xorg.conf.new isn't used, per se ... it's just a temporary file name. could be any random file name.
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20:49
<jamesjames>
anyone wanna chat about dhcp?
20:50
<vagrantc>
!question
20:50
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
20:55
<warren>
vagrantc: you prefer /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf over /var/run/ltsp/xorg.conf?
20:55* warren is fine with either
20:57
<sutula>
jamesjames: There's also a #dns listed on this server
20:58
<jamesjames>
yea it's not a dns prob.. it's dhcp. I'm typing up the question now ;)
20:59
We already have a dhcp server on our network. We use the class b range so our address are like 172.16.16.50 with a subnetmask of 255.255.240.0
20:59
We want to setup a k12ltsp box running version 5-EL but only have one nic and have it be apart of our regular network. Not doing nat between a lab and the rest of the network.
20:59
So we need k12ltsp to play nice with the other dhcp server. I read the wiki page on using alternate dhcp port 1067, but it didn't see to work. Also the instructions don't seem to match whats on the box. ie "Edit your /etc/dhcpd.conf" but i think i'm suppose to edit my /etc/dhcp-ltsp.conf file.
21:00
So i guess my question is does this work? Do i need to carve out a range of addresses in my regular dhcp server? Does the k12ltsp box hand out 192.168 addresses? Or do i need to go in and change all that to the 172.16.x.x to get the clients to work on my network.
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21:05
<AzMoo>
I'm having issues figuring out how to use FreeNX with LTSP. I'm not sure if I've figured out the process. I'm thinking I need to install a Free
21:06
NX client into the chroot environment and FreeNX server in the normal environment?
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21:09
<johnny>
jamesjames, you don't need to run a dns server on the same machine at all
21:09
ie: not on your k12ltsp box
21:09
err dhcp
21:09
AzMoo, correct
21:09
vagrantc, so how long are you going to be about?
21:10
<jamesjames>
so all the dhcp stuff can be done on my regular dhcp server?
21:11
the reason i wanted to do this was because i still need to netboot macintosh clients.. but i don't want them to get picked up by the k12ltsp server.
21:12
<AzMoo>
johnny: How do I then get the nx client to initialize instead of the ssh client?
21:12
<johnny>
i have no idea
21:13
i have't played with it yet
21:13
<AzMoo>
heh, alright mate, ta.
21:13
<johnny>
just saying that is what you do :)
21:13
to start
21:13
jamesjames, with the proper statements yes
21:13
<AzMoo>
yeah, that's cool, it's what most people have said, just nobody mentions *how* ;)
21:13
<johnny>
well you can be the trail blazer
21:13
somebody has to :)
21:14
<AzMoo>
It looks like it's been done plenty of times, I just can't find anybody who gives directions. I might start a blog once I've finished ;)
21:15
<jamesjames>
thanks for the info.. i'll play with it some more and see what i can get going.
21:15
<vagrantc>
warren: in general, i think we should move towards sub-directories, and the sooner we do the better.
21:18
johnny: not sure... i'm pretty tired, but i'll be half-here for a while.
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21:55
<johnny>
that wasn't that long :(
21:59
<dberkholz>
johnny: if you're using Xorg -configure without changing anything, you shouldn't need an xorg.conf at all
22:00
johnny: that would actually be the best, if it works
22:01
assuming ltsp doesn't need to tweak the xorg.conf around at all
22:01
<johnny>
it does
22:01
there are very many good reasons to do so
22:02
X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 for example
22:02
<dberkholz>
why would you ever want to use that?
22:02
<johnny>
that's the only way the optiplexes i have running ltsp work
22:02
<dberkholz>
sounds like a driver bug
22:02
<johnny>
perhaps
22:02
<dberkholz>
get it fixed instead of hacking around it
22:02
<johnny>
but there are also other lts parameters
22:03
like forcing the video driver ..
22:03
<dberkholz>
shouldn't be necessary either, if things are set up properly
22:04
<johnny>
obviously, but we can't personally fix everything
22:04
or at least i know i can't
22:04
<dberkholz>
sure we can =)
22:04
we can use the latest possible X versions and report issues upstream
22:05
<johnny>
take a look at the lts-parameters.txt file in the tree
22:05
<dberkholz>
with gentoo, we don't have any requirement to support crazy old stuff, so we can rely on the autodetection and whatnot in the newest X versions
22:06
<johnny>
serial mouse
22:06
x can't detect that
22:06
<dberkholz>
serial can be emulated as ps2 nowadays
22:06
<johnny>
take a look at lts-parameters :)
22:06
<dberkholz>
i'm looking at it now
22:07
xkb setup could be handled by the desktop environment, the rest should be taken care of
22:07
<johnny>
except xfs ?
22:07
not that i personally care.
22:07
i've never used it
22:07
<dberkholz>
let people set up a custom xorg.conf if they need it, and use that X_CONF setting for it
22:08
<johnny>
ok.. i was under the impression that we wanted to support whatever we could
22:09
hmm.. are you familiar with portage internals dberkholz?
22:09
<dberkholz>
depends how internal
22:09
<johnny>
is there a reason env-update has to write files in /etc ?
22:09
<dberkholz>
yes
22:09
<johnny>
why?
22:10
<dberkholz>
it generates the environment setup from /etc/env.d/ so that the rest of the system can use it
22:10
ld.so.conf and profile.env, maybe others
22:10
<johnny>
well ld.so.conf can be turned off by --no-ldconfig
22:10
<dberkholz>
on the other hand, i don't see why env-update should ever need to run on a client system
22:11
just when you're updating the client root from the server
22:11
<johnny>
i wanted the lts.conf parameters to be in profile.env for some experiments i was doing
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22:13
<johnny>
so i wanted to bind mount profile.env and /etc/env.d/00ltsp , but instead i just bind mounted profile.env and then pushed the contents of getltscfg -a to profile.env directly
22:14
<dberkholz>
i'll be back in a few
22:21
<johnny>
lemme know when you're back
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22:30
<dberkholz>
johnny: back
22:35
<johnny>
i'm attempting to track down an ldm issue
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22:57
<AzMoo>
argh, kernel panic on my client hardware :\
22:58
Is the output for dmesg logged anywhere?
23:11
<johnny>
aha.. g_spawn_async_with_pipes(
23:12
or hmm..
23:12
i see
23:13
read: bad file descriptor
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23:25
<johnny>
huh..
23:25
i had to manually set LDM_THEME
23:25
ldm actually shows up now..
23:34
<AzMoo>
So when I log into the terminal on my client, what is it actually authenticating off? Does it make an ssh connection into the server?
23:38
<johnny>
yes
23:39
<AzMoo>
OK, so that means that I need to ensure that the keys are created and included in the image before I boot, yes?
23:40
<johnny>
it happens when you create the image
23:40
at least in most distros?
23:40
<AzMoo>
I'm using Ubuntu
23:41
<johnny>
yes, it does it when you run ltsp-build-client
23:41
<AzMoo>
OK, then why the f^#$ can't I log in with my user? :\
23:42
<johnny>
check your ldm log
23:42
<AzMoo>
Where's that?
23:44
If I ssh from this box I can get in fine with my normal username and password.
23:45
But if I try and login from the client it tells me that my login is incorrect. Note this is on the terminal, not any kind of X login.
23:49
And I can log in from the chroot.
23:49
Which means it's got nothing to do with ssh keys.
23:49* AzMoo curses.
23:56
<sutula>
AzMoo: If you've made any changes, I think there's an update-image step
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23:57
<AzMoo>
sutula: Yep. If I create a local user inside the chroot I can log in.
23:58
<sutula>
AzMoo: When I look at your previous comments, I'm not sure what you're asking, or trying to do. What's the real problem?
23:59* sutula can't promise that he'd be able to help, but will try