IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 February 2009   (all times are UTC)

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03:36
<DarKnesS_WolF>
i have a question, now let us say i do have some server which running a LTSP over ubuntu . and i have lots of other diskless or with disk to connect to this ltsp, in this case all the procissing will be done on the server side. what if i want each machine that connects to the ltsp over PXE boot to run the prossising on it is own CPU ... do u think this is can be done ? like a fat-client using ltsp ?
03:43
<nubae2>
yes DarKnesS_WolF
03:43
it quite a common practice these days:
03:43
!fatclient
03:43
<ltspbot>
nubae2: Error: "fatclient" is not a valid command.
03:44
<nubae2>
hmmm... second...
03:44
@g search nubae.com/fatclient
03:44
<ltsplogbot>
582 Results | Re: Using nubae fatclient [was Re: whi @ http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04981.html | Re: Using nubae fatclient [was Re: whi @ http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04978.html | running nubae's fatclient in a lab...: @ http://osdir.com/ml/edubuntu-users/2009-02/msg00019.html | Nabble - edubuntu-users - running nubae @
03:44
http://www.nabble.com/running-nubae's-fatclient-in-a-lab...-td21825947.html
03:44
<nubae2>
/nick nubae
03:44
duh
03:50
anyway try out the plugin, works quite well
03:58
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: so the ltsp has the fatclient plugin ?
03:59
nubae2: but that will used normaly with ltsp ?
04:16
nubae2: nice work !.. what i did not understand u wrote " Download here " and it is a shell script but i don't udnerstand what this script doing ? building the LTSP-FatClient Image ?
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04:26
<nubae2>
correct
04:26
DarKnesS_WolF: How much do u understand of the concept of thin clients?
04:26
try and describe it to me
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04:42
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: sorry bad connection what i understand about thin clients that u do have one powerfull machine and many diskless machines
04:42
on the powerful machine u run terminal server and the diskless nodes just connects via pxeboot and fetch the image
04:43
but all the running prociess and memory are grabed from the powerful machine resources not from the thin client.
04:44
so if u have a P III machine and a server whiche is Xeon acting like TS , then the PIII takes the power from the Xeon.. the running OS / the memory the prossors and everything ..
04:44
nubae2: is that correct ?
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04:50
<knipwim>
any gentoo people around?
04:51
what's the way to go for the ltsp installation
04:51
follow the dberkholz setup at http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ltsp/setup.txt?
04:52
or install ltsp-server from git and do ltsp-build-client?
04:53
<nubae2>
DarKnesS_WolF: exactly
04:53
sorry was on phone
04:53
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: okay perfect now the fat-client should be same concept
04:53
but
04:54
the proccising and the memroy and so on will be done on the client not on the server
04:54
right ?
04:54
<nubae2>
so what fatclient does is build a whole fat nbd image for you and distribute it to your more powerful machines
04:54
yes
04:54
<DarKnesS_WolF>
in this case all i need the powerful server for is just the dhcp tftp server and the image right ?
04:55
<nubae2>
so things like centralised management of apps and users are still on the server
04:55
<DarKnesS_WolF>
yes that what i am looking for ..
04:55
i'll have lap like 20 pcs
04:55
i dont' want to apt-get blabla on 20 ;-)
04:55
<nubae2>
but the clients use their own ram and power mostly so that u can run flash, bandwidth intensive stuff blender
04:55
etc
04:55
<DarKnesS_WolF>
perfect
04:55
ok i didn't get this plugin :)
04:56
<nubae2>
yeah u dont need much for a server really... except remember it still has to build the image
04:56
so the better the machine, the faster the image is built
04:56
<DarKnesS_WolF>
i did read ur howto it is like installing any ltsp but u do just add -fatclient applications .. so what the download here shell script is for ?
04:56
<nubae2>
it creates the entire fat environment
04:56
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: ok the server actually is a monster machine ;-) and the clients even are xeon machines acctually but i want the centrlized mangment .
04:57
okay will use it on 64bit image
04:57
<nubae2>
so.... enables sound, printer, local apps of choice,
04:57
<DarKnesS_WolF>
because right now i already have ltsp running the classic way .
04:57
<nubae2>
users etc
04:57
etc
04:57
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: ok i have another idea but not sure if i can do it..
04:58
<nubae2>
well, I advise it.... Sameer Verma in San Francisco is currently running it in a production lab for 32 clients and qutie happy
04:58
and I believe in SA they are running in many schools too
04:58
<DarKnesS_WolF>
or it can be done. i was thinking of having like one server running virual images of many OS like XEN / openvz / vmware any solution like that .
04:58
<nubae2>
I have tested extensively on intrepid.... but someone recently sent me a fix for hardy too, so think it will work there also
04:59
<DarKnesS_WolF>
and then the clients will run a very minimal OS whihc can grap any image of the server and runn it local .
04:59
<nubae2>
right
04:59
so vm per app or what?
04:59
why the vm I mean to ask really
04:59
<DarKnesS_WolF>
not like that may be for OS like i'll have ubuntu / suse / windows anything i wanna test.
05:00
<nubae2>
ahah, yes
05:00
well that can be done 2 ways
05:00
virtual players locally on the fatclients
05:00
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: i wished i was able to do it via PXE boot but not sure how yet.
05:00
<nubae2>
or other connections like rdp or whatever
05:00
<DarKnesS_WolF>
okay that is a one which is common i think...
05:01
yes but in both cases u need actually an OS running :)
05:02
i am thinking of libvirt on a minimal debian or something
05:02
very powerful tool seems to be.
05:02
but no vmware support it do qemu / xen / kvm / openvz even
05:04
<nubae2>
hmmm...
05:04
libvirt running where now?
05:04
well... u need just One OS image running
05:05
it could be put into a shared nfs folder
05:05
fat or thin, the idea there is the same really
05:06
<DarKnesS_WolF>
yes libvirt will be running on a minimal debian or something
05:06
and via it connects to the xen server or so
05:06
<nubae2>
if u can get it to work nice... I have had problems with it recently
05:06
well it can do xen or qemu
05:07
<DarKnesS_WolF>
openVZ by the way sounds very great
05:07
even my VPS using it
05:07
<nubae2>
I do not know it
05:08
<DarKnesS_WolF>
it is OS virluziation level like a countainer
05:08
brb reboots for xen kernel be back i nfew
05:08
<nubae2>
I've used virtualbox, kvm, and vmware, but not this one
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05:23
<alkisg>
DarKnesS_WolF: it seems to me that you don't want ltsp at all, just plain AoE... :)
05:23
<nubae2>
AoE? wassat?
05:23
greetings btw
05:23
<alkisg>
Ata Over Ethernet... we have this in ltsp too :)
05:23
Greetings!
05:24
<nubae2>
stilll unsure what ata over ethernet uis
05:24
is
05:24
<alkisg>
A remote hard disk, served by the server
05:25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_over_Ethernet
05:25
So he could have 1 disk for linux, 1 for windows, 1 for whatever...
05:25
...and server them to the clients
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05:57
<sepski>
if one is using ATA across ethernet why not just use iscsi ?
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06:22
<DarKnesS_WolF>
nubae2: sorry took so long.. thx for the advice will test ur plugin tomorrow at work :) should i say which application included in the fat image ? or if i did not say anything it will generate pretty much all teh installed applications ?
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06:43
<nubae2>
look in the script
06:43
there is a list of packages
06:43
which u can adapt
06:43
by using the flag --highfat u install a pretty full desktop (about 1 gig of stuff)
06:44
alkisg: whats the advantage of ATA over doing virtual images then?
06:45
<alkisg>
The advantage is that you can e.g. boot native Windows. No remote X, no rdp, just remote disk.
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07:13
<nubae2>
oh ok
07:14
what would cause my firefox page to refresh really really slow
07:15
Im using proprietary ati drivers
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11:26
<schregge>
hi
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11:27
<schregge>
i am running an amd64 system with i386 clients. i want to install additionial packages for the thinclients. how do i specify the architecture in the chroot environment
11:27
?
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11:50
<johnny>
schregge, exactly what packages are you referring to?
11:52
<schregge>
iperf, sane...
11:52
but i thin i have it. setarch i386 chroot.....
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13:47
<phytax>
Hi! Has anybody experience with wine in an LTSP environment? Setting up applications for a lot of users?
13:47
<ball>
phytax: sounds like something that would want a powerful machine.
13:48
<phytax>
ball:its a hp proliant with 16 GB ram and 2 x xeon quad core
13:52
<Ahmuck>
phytax: it can be done, yes
13:52
there are peeps that do it and have done it. if you get it figured out by asking etc, please write a doc on it
13:54
<ball>
phytax: sounds appropriate.
13:54
<phytax>
Here i am asking ;-)
13:55
The installation will serv 26 clients in a school
13:55
<alkisg>
phytax: what kind of application? Can it run on windows without installation (as a portable app)?
13:55
<phytax>
No, sorry. The most wanted app is Delphi3 IDE
13:57
<alkisg>
...and I suppose you don't want to have multiple installations, one for each user, eh?
13:57
<phytax>
It works for a single user. But installing for 900+ users is not ok
13:58
<alkisg>
Then you'll probably have to do something with permissions, to make all of them use the same "drive_c" in wine
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14:01
<phytax>
alkisg:Yes, that's my approach, too. I hoped i would find somebody here who has done it before.
14:02
<alkisg>
phytax: I've done it but only for applications requiring no installation - I've even made .debs out of them
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14:04
<alkisg>
phytax: the best way would be to install in one user, and then put a unionfs on top of it for other users - but someone has to do it and write a good tutorial first :)
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14:06
<phytax>
alkisg: sounds interesting.
14:11
<nubae2>
stupid xorg.... my fglrx driver suddenly stopped working since yesterday
14:11
<alkisg>
phytax: just wondering, any specific reason for not using Lazarus instead of delphi 3?
14:11
<nubae2>
so I guess ATI is a bad choice now too... since there are no open source drivers for my card
14:12
and in the mean time I'm running in VESA
14:12
hi alkisg :-)
14:12
<alkisg>
Heeeellloooooo nubae2... throw it away and buy an intel one :)
14:13* nubae2 always comes in with a routine bitching about something, and then a greeting
14:13
<nubae2>
heh
14:13
/nick Nubae
14:13
<ball>
I've got one box where I can't seem to run an Xserver, period.
14:14
<nubae2>
thats quite dumb... one can t do /server commands directly in the haze part of empathy
14:15
guess I'll foi file a bug report
14:15
<phytax>
alkisg : The teachers are new to linux and they need time for acclimatization
14:15
<nubae2>
if only the sayying a bug report a day keeps the technician away were true :p
14:16
hmmm but that does make for an interesting email tag line
14:16
<alkisg>
phytax: I think it'll be a bigger problem for them running delphi under wine, along with the applications they develop. Anyway, their call...
14:16
<nubae2>
well, delphi has kilix running under it
14:16
<alkisg>
In wine? nah...
14:16
<nubae2>
but Ive had delphi apps running under crossover before
14:17
no of course not, natively... killix = delphi
14:17
<alkisg>
Kylix is a linux version of delphi, but it was made really long ago, I doubt it would be easier to install now than the wine-based version
14:18
<phytax>
yes, but kylix does not install under x86_64 ...
14:18
<alkisg>
(Delphi was my main programming environment for the last dozen years)
14:19
<phytax>
alkisg: and what is your opinion about lazarus?
14:19
<nubae2>
alkisg: funny, my lead dev in my first software company too
14:19
we wrote a pretty elaborate real estate piece of software called q property
14:19
wonder if its still floating around some place
14:19
<alkisg>
phytax: if it runs on gtk2 now (I haven't look at their latest progress) it'll be easier for the teachers than using delphi 3.
14:20
<nubae2>
using delphi though, is a little like using a glow worm for light
14:20
a very ancient and traditional approach to problem with more modern solutions :-)
14:21
<alkisg>
Delphi and Pascal is really nice... a shame that it doesn't have a big community or big companies behind it
14:21
<phytax>
hehe, ok. But in this school the teachers use it.
14:22
<ball>
I miss Pascal a lot.
14:23
<nubae2>
pascal is more like using a 80s style mobile phone to ring from the ocean :p
14:24
<phytax>
It seems to be a good way to teach children programming, anyway
14:25
<ball>
Logo's a good way to teach children programming.
14:25
<alkisg>
Logo sucks. Scratch is a lot better
14:25
The logo syntax is a mess
14:25
<ball>
Pascal's a good way to write maintainable code.
14:29
<phytax>
alkisg: thank you for your time. I will think about unionfs and wine. bye
14:29
<alkisg>
bye... there are some tutorials on the net using different approaches, google is your friend. :)
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14:32
<knipwim>
any gentoo people around?
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18:26
<nothingman>
does anyone have a link to information on nbd usage?
18:26
I have trouble having multiple users on one server
18:27
ugh, slow brain today
18:28
nbd bandwidth usage, I mean
18:34
<vagrantc>
you could use iptraf and look for traffic on port 2000 (the default used with NBD on ubuntu and debian)
18:34
<stgraber>
nothingman: My biggest server currently has 3500 connections on it and works well
18:35
<nothingman>
scott: specs?
18:36
<stgraber>
2xXeon 3.2Ghz, gigabit link and 3GB of RAM
18:37
but that's because it's the smallest configuration I could find available as blade for that customer :)
18:37
<nothingman>
and for clients?
18:37
<stgraber>
clients are mainly Wyse thin clients (via based) and some webdt (geode based with 90MB of ram ...(
18:44
<nothingman>
hm, I have an older 100Mb hub and 256MB laptops acting as clients to a 2GHz laptop with 1GB
18:44
any suggestions what my bottleneck might be?
18:48
<vagrantc>
nothingman: a hub or a switch?
18:48
<nothingman>
oh, a hub I think
18:48
yeah
18:49
<vagrantc>
nothingman: you could try connecting it with a crossover cable directly to the other laptop
18:50
<stgraber>
you can't expect to do any ltsp work with a hub
18:50
you need switches
18:50
otherwise one client's traffic will kill your whole network
18:53
<nothingman>
yeah
18:53
it's pretty good once they're all booted
18:58
<stgraber>
Ryan52: is it possible to display a multi-line message with ldm-dialog ?
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19:24
<Ryan52>
stgraber, dunno.
19:24
hmm. one sec.
19:30
stgraber: $ ./ldm-dialog --message "a
19:30
b"
19:31
that works fine for me.
19:34
<stgraber>
Ryan52: cool, and is there a way to make the window bigger ?
19:35
Ryan52: What I need for ltsp-cluster is to show a message at the first boot of the thin client with it's IP address, mac address and URL of the control center
19:35
so the tech doing the install can just connect to the web UI and configure the thin client
19:36
So basically a "This thin client hasn't been configured yet. Here is the system informations:" and then IP, MAC, URL to the control center and possibly more things (CPU, RAM and video)
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19:44
<Ryan52>
why do you need it bigger?
19:44
is the stuff too wide?
19:45
<stgraber>
yeah
19:45
<Ryan52>
if you need it wider, tweak ldm-dialog.c, there are some things defined at the top. :P
19:46
alternatively I can just add a --width option easily.
19:46* Ryan52 is gonna redo it so that it's smart enough to figure out the width itself ... eventually.
19:46
<stgraber>
that or a --fit-content option that'd disable the forced width
19:46
(usually gtk is good at that)
19:47
<Ryan52>
I think I have some form of evil that I used that makes that not work.
19:47
<stgraber>
oh
19:47
<Ryan52>
I'll look at it when I get home and have a window manager that will actually let me see the width ... this window manager forcibly stretches everything.
19:48
<stgraber>
hehe :)
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21:44
<stgraber>
Ryan52: another thing about ldm-dialog, for the translation of the buttons you're currently using gettext. Was there any reason not to use gtk's stock buttons ? I believe these are translated as part of gtk and automatically gets the right icon
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22:41
<dberkholz>
knipwim: hi, much of my howto is outdated now. you want the ltsp overlay (available in layman)
22:47
<Ryan52>
stgraber, ya, I'll look at that too.
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23:54
<head_>
hello
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23:59
<ball>
hello head_