IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

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10:09
<cib0>
hello
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10:13
<cib0>
does anyone here have an idea how to install the Thin Client Manager distributed with edubuntu from source?
10:15
<johnny>
why would you want to do that?
10:15
<MJS>
johnny: we want to install a Debian Server
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10:17
<johnny>
well.. what do you want thin client manager for?
10:17
italc does more
10:18
<cib0>
according to MJS italc wasn't that great
10:19
<johnny>
all thin client manager can do
10:19
is send messages and blank screens
10:19
italc can do alot more than that
10:19
the rest of thin client manager is broken
10:19
and the software in general is unmaintained
10:19
<cib0>
i see
10:19
<MJS>
well but I wasn't able to use italc
10:20
<johnny>
you won't be able to use thin client manager
10:20
unless you plan on maintaining it :)
10:20
there are folks in here who are very familiar with italc
10:20
i personally don't use ltsp in an educational environment
10:21
so i don't know much about it personally
10:21
<cib0>
well, maintaining it indeed would be an option, although it lacks any documentation as far as i have seen
10:21
<johnny>
yes
10:22
italc is the best option as far as i know
10:22
stgraber would be the person who would know stuff
10:23
<cib0>
ok, thanks alot for the info
10:23
<johnny>
i'd suggest coming back tomorrow
10:23
during the weekday
10:24
this channel is not very active during the weekend
10:24
it is most active during daylight hours of usa/europe..
10:25
<MJS>
johnny: how can I start x11vnc?
10:25
<cib0>
hm, we currently lack knowledge of how exactly ltsp works..
10:25
<johnny>
MJS, with thin client manager?
10:26
that support is the broken part
10:26
<MJS>
no
10:26
I want to start it by typing "x11vnc"
10:26
<johnny>
well i know it doesn't work via thin client manager
10:26
not sure how it work it any other way
10:26
<MJS>
then it says: BadAcess (attempt to access private resource denied)
10:26
<johnny>
cib0, well you can always read the documentation and ask questions
10:26
!docs
10:26
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:27
<MJS>
is it right, that LTSP is sth like SSH?
10:27
<johnny>
sth?
10:27
<cib0>
in a documentation i read it said you had to install it on the thin client itself, MJS thinks it's enough to install it on the server and call it via ssh, but i guess there is the problem
10:27
<MJS>
something
10:27
<johnny>
you must install xv11vnc on the thin client chroot
10:27
<MJS>
AH!
10:27
ok thanks
10:27
<johnny>
ltsp uses ssh
10:27
<MJS>
ok
10:28
<johnny>
by default in ubuntu/debian it tunnels X over ssh
10:28
if you set LDM_DIRECTX=True then it will only auth over ssh
10:30
<cib0>
does that make any difference other than the security of the connection?
10:30
<johnny>
it is faster without the tunneling :)
10:30
speed and security are the difference
10:31
on older hardware, LDM_DIRECTX is nearly a must
10:32
<alkisg>
italc works out of the box without setting up x11vnc or anything in the chroot...
10:32
<cib0>
i see.. now, what i don't really get is, that you need to install a program on the client so the server can see what's on the screen.. i thought the screen output would be generated on the server anyway, so why can't you just get the output directly from there?
10:33
<MJS>
alkisg, but how does it work? when I start it says something about missing keypairs
10:33
<johnny>
alkisg, i get the same thing too
10:33
i tried it once .. just to see
10:33
i saw the same key errors
10:34
<alkisg>
MJS, which distro?
10:34
<MJS>
Debian
10:34
(lenny)
10:34
<johnny>
ubuntu here
10:35
<alkisg>
Ehm.... never used lenny, let's see about the error johnny saw
10:35
<johnny>
MJS, he meant that it works out of the box
10:35
on ubuntu
10:35
or is supposed to
10:35
<MJS>
hmm ok
10:35
<alkisg>
(I think that's also true for lenny, but can't say for sure)
10:35
You just have to add the clients
10:35
<johnny>
well.. how about trying to generate the key then :)
10:36
alkisg, i get the same key error he is talking about
10:36
<MJS>
afk - time to eat sth
10:36
<alkisg>
The key is autogenerated
10:36
<johnny>
didn't autogenerate for me
10:36
<alkisg>
But if you have to, you may create another one
10:36
<johnny>
i'm not there to test tho
10:36
<cib0>
what exactly do you need the key for?
10:37
<alkisg>
johnny: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
10:37
<cib0>
is italc even a thin client manager?
10:37
<johnny>
alkisg, i didn't really look.. because my fellow workers think it is a privacy invasion
10:37
<alkisg>
To create new keys, ica --create-key-pair
10:37
johnny: ok, I guess it's more helpful in schools...
10:37
<johnny>
yeah
10:38
so far the concensus of the collective is that we shouldn't go this route
10:38
<alkisg>
cib0: the keys are used for security
10:38
<johnny>
i just tried to see it in action once
10:38
<alkisg>
in the communication between clients & server
10:38
<johnny>
and gave up when it didn't work right away, since i didn't actually need it
10:38
<cib0>
alkisg: though in this case, clients and server are the very same machine?
10:39
<alkisg>
cib0, yeap, it's all done through ssh tunnels
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10:39
<alkisg>
The recommented setup is to actually install italc in the chroot, so that it runs on the clients
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10:40
<cib0>
i don't get it..
10:40
<alkisg>
Read the page I posted above, it has some explanations
10:42
The recommented setup is the second one, "Installation in the client chroot"
10:42
<MJS>
re
10:43
<cib0>
why would you need control over the base system running on the thin client?
10:44
<MJS>
when I run "ica -createkeypair"
10:44
the info box with the missing keypair still appears
10:44
<alkisg>
cib0: to shut it down... but it's not about control, it's about saving CPU on the server
10:45
<cib0>
hm, i see
10:45
<alkisg>
MJS, I'm not sure about lenny... I think you have to logoff for ica to run
10:45
<MJS>
ok
10:45
then wait a minute
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10:48
<MJS>
re
10:48
hm...
10:49
didn't work
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10:51
<alkisg>
Still complains about the keys?
10:51
<MJS>
yes
10:51
<alkisg>
ps aux | grep ica?
10:52
<cib0>
wait, this is getting confusing.. so you can install the italc master on the server, on the teacher's user.. you can install the italc client on the server, on the thin client's user.. and you can install it on the thin client itself?
10:52
<MJS>
ica is running on the server
10:52
I can't start it on the clients
10:53
"Port 5800 is already used"
10:53
<alkisg>
MJS, ica should automatically run for the clients when the users log on
10:53
<MJS>
so i have to relogin?
10:53
<alkisg>
A client? Yes
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10:54
<alkisg>
cib0: the thin clients are supposed to be diskless, you can't install anything on them
10:54
<MJS>
its running on the client
10:54
but with the user logged on on the server
10:54
<alkisg>
OK, so you can start italc on the server
10:54
and add the client so that you can see his screen
10:55
<cib0>
alkisg: yeah, "install on the server and run it on the thin client itself" to be exact, which makes things even more complicated
10:56
<alkisg>
cib0: all programs run like this: either on the chroot <=> on the client, or on the server
10:56
<MJS>
now italc says that it cant find .user/globalconfig.xml
10:56
<alkisg>
E.g. the X server is on the chroot, so it runs on the client, but firefox is on the server and runs on the server
10:56
<MJS>
AND that the keypairs are missing
10:57
<alkisg>
MJS, put "ps aux|grep ica" in pastebin...
10:58
!pastebot
10:58
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
11:00
<MJS>
http://pastebin.com/m3ea32216
11:03
<cib0>
so.. what connection does italc make now for which it needs keypairs?
11:04
<MJS>
hmmmmm
11:04
how can I use vncviewer
11:04
?
11:05
when I start x11vnc on a client
11:05
it won't work
11:06
when i start it on the server
11:06
<alkisg>
cib0: ssh
11:06
MJS: about ica, you don't run it manually, it automatically runs when you logong
11:06
And the keypairs should be created as "teacher"
11:06
<MJS>
yes
11:07
I startet ica on the server
11:07
<cib0>
ssh between the actual thin client machines and the server machine?
11:07
<MJS>
and created the keypairs as "teacher"
11:07
<alkisg>
This one shouldn't exist: manuel 25396 0.0 0.9 46648 10124 pts/0 Sl+ 17:51 0:00 ica
11:07
It should be something like: ica -noshm -isdport 5800 -ivsport 5900
11:08
(unless it works differently in lenny)
11:08
You shouldn't run ica on the server manually
11:08
<MJS>
so well... lets start from the beginning
11:08
what should I do?
11:08
first
11:10
<alkisg>
I'd go for complete uninstallation (along with the settings / keys) and reinstallation...
11:10
I still think that the correct keypairs are created as part of the installation
11:11
(with role=teacher)
11:12
<johnny>
alkisg, i had just installed italc-master and no keys werecreated
11:12
<alkisg>
johnny: in intrepid?
11:12
<johnny>
yes
11:12
i got the same key errors
11:13
<alkisg>
I'm not sure if you have to logoff from the server or restart the server or anything, but I never had to manually create keys
11:13
johnny: did it run ica?
11:13
(right after the installation, I mean)
11:13
<johnny>
i don't know
11:14
<alkisg>
ps aux|grep ica...
11:14
<johnny>
just mentioning
11:14
i already removedit
11:14
as i said. privacy violation issues
11:14
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
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11:14
<MJS>
well i'd like to first use vncviewer
11:14
just for seeing that it works
11:14
<alkisg>
But maybe it *did* create the keys, and you just had to logoff...
11:14
<johnny>
the machine had already been restarted
11:14
by the time i came back
11:14
<MJS>
but even this doesn't work
11:14
<johnny>
and tried again
11:15
<MJS>
I added this line: "x11vnc -display :6 -forever -loop &" to my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.local
11:15
restartet the client
11:15
what must i type then on the server?
11:16
<johnny>
i can only imagine that you connect to the clients ip
11:16
via that may or may not work
11:16
i don't know
11:16
i use ltsp for internet cafe type stuff.. so i don't use such things
11:17
<MJS>
vncviewer 192.168.0.100
11:17
says: connection refused
11:17
<johnny>
as i mentioned.. bad time for real help in such environments
11:17
seems like all the experts have real jobs :)
11:17
<cib0>
i guess
11:17
<MJS>
hm I just can't imagine that this CAN work
11:17
<johnny>
and they only come in here during those job times
11:17
i know that italc works
11:18
people use it all the time
11:18
<MJS>
I see the thin clients as "screens" of my server
11:18
<johnny>
few people ask for help with anything else
11:18
<MJS>
and how could i connect to a screen?
11:18
<johnny>
it's almost like that..
11:18
x doesn't have "screen" support
11:18
<cib0>
i really would like to understand how all this stuff works exactly, is there any documentation that goes through each aspect in detail?
11:18
<johnny>
did you read the docs?
11:18
if you have questions, the documentation maintainer would love to hear em
11:19
<MJS>
when I start on my server "xinit -- :1"
11:19
this is a new "screen" for me
11:19
if I then start x11vnc on this
11:19
I can't see it with vncviewer localhost:!
11:19
*localhost:1
11:20
<cib0>
ah, i mixed the edubuntu docs with the ltsp docs.. ok, the ltsp docs are just what i need right now i guess
11:20
<johnny>
it is rather complicated
11:20
ltsp is just a glue on top of standard unix tools to make what we want work
11:20
<MJS>
vncviewer localhost:1
11:20
vncviewer: ConnectToTcpAddr: connect: Connection refused
11:20
Unable to connect to VNC server
11:20
<johnny>
and it gets funny when you try to make local devices work and whatnot
11:21
and then when you want to run some apps remote
11:21
and some local
11:21
etc
11:21
<MJS>
how can I manage this?
11:21
<johnny>
sounds like nobody currently here knows.
11:21
i suggest trying back tomorrow
11:22
i don't really have time to investigate. working on xmpp stuff atm
11:23
<MJS>
ok
11:23
thanks anyway
11:24
<klausade>
MJS: that used to work fine before, but after the bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=469462 was fixed, I belive that vnc like you try to use it stopped working.
11:24
<MJS>
hm ok
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12:48
<elisboa>
where can I read about how does LTSP deal with remote mountable devics?
12:48
*devices
12:52
<rjune_>
I think the wiki
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13:09
<juliannojungle>
im trying to connect an usb webcam to a thin client in a ltsp enviroment, but im facing a problem that i think is with v4l. When i run a terminal as localapp in the client and type dmesg, the webcam is there, registered at /dev/video0, but neither amsn or skype can find it. someone know if im doing something wrong?
13:11
[ 9.899439] Linux video capture interface: v2.00
13:11
[ 9.917482] zc0301: V4L2 driver for ZC0301[P] Image Processor and Control Chip v1:1.10
13:11
[ 9.917527] usb 1-1: ZC0301[P] Image Processor and Control Chip detected (vid/pid 0x0AC8:0x303B)
13:11
[ 10.005836] usb 1-1: PB-0330 image sensor detected
13:11
[ 10.081030] ata4: SATA link down 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
13:11
[ 10.427802] usb 1-1: Initialization succeeded
13:11
[ 10.427991] usb 1-1: V4L2 device registered as /dev/video0
13:11
[ 10.428018] usbcore: registered new interface driver zc0301
13:12
lsusb output --> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0ac8:303b Z-Star Microelectronics Corp. ZC0303 WebCam
13:14
someone?
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13:16
<juliannojungle>
someone, plz? :(
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13:17
<juliannojungle>
anyone with working webcam at clients or who know how to put it to work can help me?
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13:19
<juliannojungle>
nobody? Oo
13:20
from 73 guys connected??? OO
13:20
ok...
13:20
c ya
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14:08
<usuario>
hola a todos
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17:06
<cib0>
"If you change the IP data after you have done the initial setup and run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server." what in god's name does this sentence mean in English? i can't even find a main clause there
17:10
<Ryan52>
heh. nice.
17:10
I think they mean "then" instead of "and" :)
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18:05
<aqr8t>
hello everyone
18:08
how can i setup lirc with a ltsp5 client? i installed the modules and the lirc deamon into the client image. but how does this work in a x session app?
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21:18
<twb>
Where can I find information on testing PXE booting using qemu?
21:19
I actually have the server as a qemu VM, too, because the VM machine is an order of magnitude better than the random crap that I'm given for testing.
21:20
(The LTSP server, of course.)
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21:23
<rjune_>
twb: I forget who was doing it
21:24
<Ryan52>
twb: warren uses his laptop as the server and a qemu vm as the client when developing...he has some scripts in upstream bzr. you might want to look at them...
21:24
<twb>
Looks like I can say -net nic,vlan=0 on both qemus
21:25* cyberorg uses virtualbox
21:25
<Ryan52>
cyberorg: it stopped working for me! :(
21:25
<twb>
I avoid virtualbox because it has an "enterprise edition"
21:25
Which automatically makes me wonder if they're really committed to FOSS, or are just interested in making $$$
21:26
<stgraber>
Ryan52: I had a look to your change to ldm for the textbox behavior when the user is waiting for the session to open
21:27
Ryan52: it looks like you're marking it disabled after its content is cleared, can you at least leave the stars so the user sees it's his password and not just a disabled text entry ?
21:27
<cyberorg>
twb, it also can mean that enterprise demands would make the devs add features and more polish to the product :)
21:27
<Ryan52>
stgraber, ah, yes, will do.
21:27
<twb>
cyberorg: IME "enterprise" means "add an extra zero to the invoice" :P
21:28
<alkisg>
...and the latest version of virtualbox has host interface emulation without tap devices etc... Very easy to use for ltsp testing
21:28
<twb>
And "oh, you wanted it to work, too? Next you will want a source code license, you filthy customer"
21:28
<stgraber>
Ryan52: thanks
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