IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 February 2016   (all times are UTC)

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09:46
<sebd>
Hello, I am trying to switch my Debian LTSP installation from NFS to NBD. I support both thin and fat clients, i386 and amd64. Therefore ltsp-update-image --config-nbd created 4 images ; I specified kernel boot option root=/dev/nbd0 ; but how do I tell the client to mount the "fat-amd64" image, instead of "amd64" ? What is the NBD equivalent of the "nfsroot" option ?
09:48
let's try nbdroot=fat-amd64
09:49
<alkisg>
sebd: first advice, use only one image for thin, fat, i386 and amd64
09:49
A fat i386.img image can serve all of those
09:49
i386 pae kernels can handle up to 64 GB RAM, so it's not a problem if you use them in amd64 clients
09:50
And of course fat images can serve thin clients as well
09:50
<sebd>
alkisg: ok
09:50
<alkisg>
So, only keep the fat i386 image and move the other 3 aside
09:50
mkdir /opt/ltsp.bak
09:50
mv /opt/ltsp/<otherdirs> /opt/ltsp.bak/
09:51
etc, move them outside of the /opt/ltsp/ directory
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09:54
<sebd>
I will prefer to keep using amd64 and i386. Two fat images that I'll maintain in parallel.
09:55
<alkisg>
sebd: ok, then use nbdroot= to clarify the path
09:55
Or use DHCP rootpath to clarify it
09:55
How do you make the clients select between i386 or amd64? from dhcp.conf or from pxelinux configuration?
09:56
<sebd>
Should I put the full path of /opt/ltsp/images/*.img as the NBD name ? The file name alone does not work. Let's try the full path.
09:57
<alkisg>
The nbd name is the one that is in the header of /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/*.conf
09:57
Usually it's something like /opt/ltsp/i386
09:57
<sebd>
ah ok
09:57
<alkisg>
(11:55:59 πμ) alkisg: How do you make the clients select between i386 or amd64? from dhcp.conf or from pxelinux configuration?
10:00
<sebd>
alkisg: I wrote an ipxe script that detects the arch
10:02
<alkisg>
sebd: if you're using ipxe then you have access to the rootpath, so you can do either
10:02
Either set the rootpath variable, or change the kernel command line
10:02
Setting rootpath sounds a bit better
10:02
<sebd>
thank you, nbdroot=/opt/ltsp/fat-amd64 worked, it will do for now - later I'll get rid of 2 out of 4 chroots so to use the fat chroots for the thin clients as well
10:02
<alkisg>
(it results in the same code whether you're using nfs or nbd)
10:03
Out of curiosity, why will you keep using amd64 _and_ i386?
10:03
Math-intensive software?
10:05
<sebd>
alkisg: I like to use the full power of the available arch. And yes, my users use such apps as QGis.
10:06
<alkisg>
Some benchmarks state that in many cases i386 apps are faster on amd64 hardware
10:06
Due to less memory transfers, more memory available etc
10:06
<sebd>
when you use i386 kernel on amd64 it is an emulation, no ?
10:06
<alkisg>
No
10:07
<sebd>
alkisg: I didn't know about these benchmark, and I agree that using twice as big pointers does not help with memory use, but i that really significant ?
10:07
<alkisg>
If an i386 chroot is faster on your amd64 hardware for the apps you run, there's no point in having more administrative overhead
10:08
If the amd64 chroot is noticeably faster, then sure by all means you should do it
10:08
In 1000 installations here we don't do it
10:09
<sebd>
I should be on this chan more often
10:09
<highvoltage>
more available ram = more space for local nfs cache = better performance
10:11
<sebd>
highvoltage: I am not satisfied with NFS on fat clients, I feel I did not set it up correctly, users complain that it takes up to 30 seconds to start iceweasel or LibreOffice.
10:12
<alkisg>
highvoltage also means NBD cache as well
10:12
NBD is about 5 times faster than NFS due to less overhead and compression
10:13
And in newest debian/ubuntu releases, nfs is broken due to the kernel overlayfs implementation, so the point is moot :)
10:13
<sebd>
alkisg: ah, that's interesting
10:13
<highvoltage>
alkisg, sebd: yes, I meant whatever-filesystem-you're-using-cache :)
10:14
<sebd>
that would explain performances were better in debian 7
10:15
I noticed NFS mounts where NFSv3, not v4.
10:15
<alkisg>
initramfs-tools don't support v4
10:16
dracut does, but debian doesn't really support dracut
10:16
<sebd>
Ok, I'm happy with NBD now. It is clearly faster.
10:20
<highvoltage>
sebd: yeah you need to have authentication infrastructure in place for nfsv4
10:20
I still need to try btrfs with nbd but just haven't gotten so far yet
10:20
<sebd>
highvoltage: I do have a single LDAP and my chroots use it
10:21
<highvoltage>
sebd: cool. I believe you'll have to add kerberos to that mix too then you should be able to use nfsv4
10:22
<sebd>
highvoltage: ok, but now NBD seems better. And I am happy with fuse.sshfs for homes and shared folders.
10:23
<highvoltage>
sebd: yeah nbd performance will be better than nfs4 as well
10:24
<sebd>
I did have issues with sshfs disconnections under debian 7, but not yet in debian 8.
10:25
<alkisg>
highvoltage: btrfs nbd is about 2 times slower than squashfs'ed nbd, in my quick tests
10:25
Which is still pretty good
10:26
<highvoltage>
alkisg: ah that was what I was wondering about. I'd expect it to be slower, just had no idea by how much.
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10:26
<highvoltage>
alkisg: do you have compression enabled in btrfs?
10:26
<alkisg>
Yup, of course
10:27
!precise-i386
10:27
<ltsp>
precise-i386: Ubuntu 12.04 compressed btrfs chroot to boot really old clients (non-pae, >=64MB RAM): http://ts.sch.gr/repo/livecd/images. You can find the image, a screenshot and a README there.
10:27
<highvoltage>
cool
10:27
<alkisg>
I have 2 btrfs images there if you want to test
10:27
A precise and a stretch one
10:27
<markit>
but why use btrfs?
10:27
<alkisg>
It's editable
10:27
squashfs isn't
10:27
<markit>
ah, I see, cool
10:27
<alkisg>
(and, unlike ext4, it's compressed)
10:28
So for example you can mount it and chroot to it and never have to run ltsp-update-image again
10:28
<highvoltage>
I see reiser4 is properly making it into Debian as well
10:28
<alkisg>
That one supports compression as well?
10:28
<highvoltage>
and it supports transparent compression too and should be a lot faster than btrfs
10:28
<alkisg>
Cool
10:29
squashfs has a lot of optimizations in its compression scheme
10:29
I don't think any writeable filesystems will match it
10:29
It would be nice to have support for squashfs base and some other .diff on top of that, similar to how virtualbox handles snapshots
10:30
So that it's editable, mergeable, discardable etc,
10:30
while the client would only see a single image...
10:32
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yeah I think being read-only is the biggest reason why it's so fast. nothing ever moves around and once you have fs metadata in ram you don't have to go fetch it again because you can rely on it staying the same
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11:21
<sebd>
In kernel options, is ip=dhcp required ? Seems not.
11:21
<alkisg>
It's the default
11:22
<sebd>
ok. Can't find the reference doc about kernel parameters, only http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Configuration#Kernel_Parameters
11:24
<alkisg>
kernel parameters are in the kernel: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
11:25
<sebd>
no ip=
11:27
<alkisg>
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/nfs/nfsroot.txt
11:27
<sebd>
thank you alkisg
11:30
ls -ltr
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16:34
<gavfranc>
Hi, I am deploying a ltsp server in a school and all clients need to access a windows share. I would be delighted if someone new how to mount at login. I am pulling my hair out at the moment.
16:38alkisg_away is now known as alkisg
16:38
<alkisg>
gavfranc: this isn't ltsp-related, you can ask in your distribution channel
16:41
<gavfranc>
How is setting up an ltsp server and clients not be ltsp related
16:42
<alkisg>
gavfranc: it's not specific to the ltsp code base
16:42
We don't have any knowledge about it
16:42
E.g. an ltsp server has a monitor. We don't know how to repair monitors here...
16:42
<gavfranc>
I think it is as it is in lts.conf
16:42
<alkisg>
If you ask in #ubuntu, you may find people using samba there
16:43
<gavfranc>
that is not the problem
16:43
<alkisg>
No, lts.conf can't help you there, it will have to be server-side
16:43
LDM is using ssh, not pam
16:43
sshd on the server is part of the pam stack though, so you can configure your server to do automounts
16:43
It's the same as in non-ltsp servers though
16:43
E.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
16:43
<gavfranc>
In lts.conf you can create custom /etc/fstab
16:43
<alkisg>
That's per boot, not per login
16:44
You said "mount at login"
16:44
<gavfranc>
yes boot and login. Login is a natural progression from booting.
16:44
<alkisg>
ltsp can configure boot parameter, e.g. /etc/fstab
16:45
login parameters like getting the password from pam and passing it to a samba server are done in the pam stack
16:45
ltsp client don't use the pam stack, you would need to do that on the server
16:45
Hence, not ltsp specific
16:45
Let's put it in another way
16:45
<gavfranc>
Yes I am aware thanks but does it only work with nfs or samba too.
16:45
<alkisg>
I'll ask you: how would you do it in a machine without ltsp?
16:46
When you have that answer, I'll then tell you if it's different in ltsp
16:46
<gavfranc>
mount the share on /etc/fstab
16:46
<alkisg>
You can't put per-user passwords in /etc/fstab
16:46
Or that share is not password protected?
16:46
Are the users going to connect as guests there?
16:47
<gavfranc>
no just users on the server
16:47
<alkisg>
I'm user X1 with password Y1
16:47
There's another user X2 with password Y2
16:47
Are we both going to connect to the same share with the same password?
16:47
E.g. share S with password P?
16:48
Or will we use our own usernames and passwords there?
16:48
<gavfranc>
all users sit down at a client machine, login and then need to see a windows share in the file view
16:48
<alkisg>
The same share for everyone?
16:49
<gavfranc>
yes, they are students
16:49
<alkisg>
Can guest users see the share?
16:49
<gavfranc>
there is no guests.
16:49
<alkisg>
There are anonymous (guest) shares and user (password protected) shares in windows
16:50
I'm trying to understand if you have an anonymous share or if it needs a username and password to access it
16:50
OK so anyway
16:50
Do you know the line to put in fstab?
16:50
<gavfranc>
yes I have used the following
16:50
<alkisg>
(I now assume you don't need per-login share connections, but per-boot connections)
16:50
<gavfranc>
yes that will be fine.
16:51
<alkisg>
So, the LTSP part there is that you put that line in FSTAB_0 in lts.conf
16:51
Instead of putting it to some file
16:52
<gavfranc>
FSTAB_1="server:/storage /storage cifs username=xxxx,password=xxxxx defaults 0 0"
16:52
<alkisg>
Yup, sounds fine
16:52
The page I linked says: "//gurnee/projects /home/jcrow/GurneeServer cifs rw,_netdev,user=DOMAIN/user,password=password,uid=1000,gid=100 0 0"
16:53
...but I'm guessing the fstab syntax isn't the issue, that part is not specific to ltsp, you can easily troubleshoot that
16:53
<gavfranc>
I have used this but it does not mount the folder
16:53
<alkisg>
Does it mount the folder if you use it in a pc without ltsp?
16:53
<gavfranc>
no the syntax is fine. if you get syntax wrong and error message comes up during boot
16:54
yes I can mount it from the client but only by using the connect to server option in nautilus
16:54
<alkisg>
No, not from an ltsp client
16:54
I'm asking if it works if you put it in another pc that is not an ltsp client
16:54
I.e. if you put it to /etc/fstab there
16:54
<gavfranc>
yes I can mount it from anywhere on netework
16:54
network
16:54
<alkisg>
From /etc/fstab, not from the command line, right?
16:55
<gavfranc>
yes, I have a debian server that mounts it fine
16:55
<alkisg>
When you boot an ltsp client, does the /etc/fstab appear correctly there?
16:55
Is it the same as in the debian server?
16:56
(because if you have special characters, ltsp might have issues)
16:56
<gavfranc>
the /etc/fstab in the chroot is blank.
16:56
<alkisg>
...like " or ` or $ in the password or other special characters
16:56
Not in the chroot, but in the booted client
16:56
!screen_02
16:56
<ltsp>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
16:56
<alkisg>
By the way, are you using ltsp thin clients or ltsp fat clients?
16:56
<gavfranc>
good idea, I have not browsed to /etc/fstab in the client
16:57
I am using thin clients with local_apps
16:57
<alkisg>
There's a possibility to do that mount server-side, and use LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS to get it to the client via sshfs
16:58
<gavfranc>
They are running ubuntu ltsp with gnome environment.
16:58
so just add that command to lts.conf?7
16:58
<alkisg>
For example, if you have it mounted on the server at /media/samba-share,
16:59
<gavfranc>
ok
16:59
<alkisg>
then you'd use LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS=/media/samba-share, yes, in lts.conf
16:59
(and not use fstab_1 at all)
16:59
<gavfranc>
ok thanks, I will try that. I have mounted it on the server so if it works happy days.
17:00
I will post any success back to community.
17:00
<alkisg>
gavfranc: it's LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS
17:01
I posted it wrong before
17:01
What community? The ltsp-discuss mailing list?
17:01
<gavfranc>
ok thanks. Anywhere where it will be useful to others. I am sure I am not the only person to want to mount a windows share.
17:02
especially in an educational environment
17:02
<alkisg>
Well, if you put it on the server /etc/fstab, it's not ltsp-specific :)
17:03
Good luck, if you don't make it that way come again
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17:03
<gavfranc>
okay cheers
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18:17
<Muneera>
Hello, I am running Ubuntu on my windows, I have a large files can ltsp help me on that? to upload all the files on server
18:24
<vagrantc>
LTSP is for network booting computers without hard disks, not sure if that meets your needs or not.
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22:01
<stumped>
Is there currently anything going on with tftpd-hpa? I've built about six ltsp servers in the debian/ubuntu world and on this latest one I just cannot get tftpd-hpa to deliver the client's environment. Logs say nothing. thanks so much.
22:02alkisg_away is now known as alkisg
22:02
<alkisg>
stumped: it happens with debian too? I thought the issue was upstart-specific...
22:02
Edit /etc/default/tftpd-hpa and put --verbose there beside --secure
22:02
This will give you some logs
22:02
<stumped>
alksig - This is with Jessie. A new install.
22:03
<alkisg>
Many of us have switched to dnsmasq though
22:03
Is tftpd up and running?
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22:04
<alkisg>
And, what is the error that the client displays?
22:05
<stumped>
service tftpd-hpa status says fail mode but I was having the same issue when it was running. I just re-installed ltsp-server-standalone.
22:05
let me boot the client
22:05
<alkisg>
Start the service first, then boot the client
22:06
<stumped>
Looks like "Forbidden access..." but it disappears quickly.
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22:06
<stumped>
I have seen 'connection refused' and 'read: timeout' as well. Been monkeying a lot.
22:07
<maldridge>
stumped: I have not been able to get tftpd-hpa running in standalone mode, it works quite well with xinetd though
22:07
<stumped>
that's why I just purged it and re-installed
22:08
We used to use xinetd and I installed that but can't see anything for it in either /etc/default or etc/init.d
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22:08
<stumped>
I've struggled with tftpd-hpa in the past and we usually just gave up and installed atftpd. Thst worked but not this time either.
22:09
got to be perms kind of thing.
22:09
<alkisg>
stumped: I don't have much time currently, do you want to share your screen with me so that we troubleshoot this faster?
22:09
!vnc-dide
22:09
<ltsp>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
22:09
<maldridge>
on the lastest ubuntu I have the inetd config in /etc/inetd.conf (I misspoke earlier, my site is in fact running inetd)
22:10
<stumped>
Thanks for the clarity maldridge
22:11
<maldridge>
np
22:11
<stumped>
let me try --verbose, the obi-wan prob won't like the sharing business. :)
22:12
thanks much for the inputs
22:13
<alkisg>
np
22:14
dnsmasq appears to be more stable, we really should make it the default :D
22:14
<maldridge>
I thought it was the default, or do you mean a stronger default than being a dependency
22:15
<alkisg>
When someone runs apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone, it installs isc-dhcp-server and tftpd-hpa instead of dnsmasq
22:16
The change would be to install and configure dnsmasq instead
22:16
And of course both cases will always be supported if someone specifies what he wants in the `apt-get install` command line
22:17
E.g. now he can run `apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone dnsmasq` to avoid pulling tftpd-hpa and isc-dhcp-server
22:17
<maldridge>
makes sense. I'm hesitant to install a configured dnsmasq, that could make site specific stuff harder to manage
22:18
<alkisg>
It would happen on `ltsp-config dnsmasq`, not on postinst
22:18
<maldridge>
ah, that makes much more sense
22:20
<stumped>
FYI: I saw on the client PXE3(5?) tftp timeout error. Then it bail to Non-system disk or disk error... tftp giving up
22:20* alkisg waves, 'night all
22:20alkisg is now known as alkisg_away
22:20
<maldridge>
'later alkisg_away
22:21
stumped: you are certain your dhcp server is providing the right filename?
22:21
and is allowed through your firewall?
22:25
<stumped>
There is no firewall being crossed.
22:25
<maldridge>
the server doesn't even have a local firewall?
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22:25
<stumped>
I'll check the file name, but I did look at it earlier
22:26
This is a *very* closed test bed. We'll move it later and adjust. thanks for asking.
22:26
<maldridge>
my next step would be to run tftpd in the foreground and see if it even sees the connection attempt
22:27
ok, test server clears that up, my eyebrows had raised quite a bit at that one
22:27
<stumped>
=8^O
22:28
I've installed the tftp client. I'll see if it will deliver to /tmp for me.
22:30
tftp 192.168.7.45 -v -m binary -c get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
22:30
Connected to 192.168.7.45 (192.168.7.45), port 69
22:30
getting from 192.168.7.45:/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 to pxelinux.0 [octet]
22:30
<maldridge>
pastebin please!
22:31
<stumped>
Error code 2: Forbidden directory
22:31
I'll remember that... sorry
22:32
<maldridge>
'-s' option is in your tftpd options?
22:33
<stumped>
--secure is.
22:35
<maldridge>
hmm, I'm really not sure what the issue could be then. I have no sites running debian 7 yet, or anything systemd for that matter
22:35
all of my invocations of daemons would be different from yours
22:36
<stumped>
so'kay.
22:36
Timeclock says I have to go. thanks.
22:36
I'm out
22:36
<maldridge>
'later
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