IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 November 2006   (all times are UTC)

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02:36
<kenguru>
morning.
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02:39
<kenguru>
i'm newbie with ltsp and i have problem with it in pxe boot. client (d3v compaq) c800, 100 pro vm nic, reboots itself after starting "uncompressing linux.. " i tried to get data from console but it seems that isn't supported with that kernel. (2.6.16.1-2)
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03:04
<kenguru>
hi.
03:05
Legenda, hello.
03:08
<Legenda>
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07:19
<psycodad>
hmmm...lately all graphics cards i try to use with ltsp tend to start with 1280x960 or similar strange resolutions. The ATI mach64 seems to be unable to deal with higher resolutions due to their 2MB Ram, however I have a nvidia geforce with 64MB and it also starts only with 1280x960 . Does anybody have any pointers for me, where I can read more about making my own modlines for these ?
07:20
<sep>
psycodad, what happen if you try to force a resolution in lts.conf for the given client ?
07:25
<psycodad>
sep: i have currently 1280x1024 but it just starts with 1280x960 and looks terrible at 60HZ
07:25
<sep>
psycodad,and it's not becouse your monitor dont like that resolution at that frequency ?
07:26
<psycodad>
its a quite new 19" flat and it worked with 1280x1024...clients with i810 chipset work beautiful with 1280x1024 on that screen
07:26
<sep>
i have X_MODE_0=1280x1024 X_HORZSYNC ="60-70"
07:27
<psycodad>
sep, let me try specifying the refresh rates for that client
07:31
ok, i have now X_VERTREFRESH="56-75" and X_HORZSYNC="82" lets see..
07:34
great, monitor reports "out of range" but i have those values from the manual...
07:36
<sep>
psycodad, does it realy only support 82 horz ?
07:36
not a range ?
07:36
<psycodad>
http://www.videoseven.com/mediadata/images/content/displays/produkte/displays/19_zoll/l19m/datenblatt/V7%20L19M.PDF
07:37
i have now tested with 82 and 60 and now the xserver doesnt start anymore
07:43
now with just X_VERTREFRESH = "56-75" it again starts with 1280x960@60Hz
07:47
i still believe that the supplied modlines do not work and i need to specify my own for this combo of graphic card and monitor but I have no clue where to read more indeep about that
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08:11
<psycodad>
i have other lcds from v7 and i've looked up the l19em and that one specifies 30-82 for hsync...with these values i got 1280x1024@75...thx for the helping hand anyway ;-)
08:15
btw...
08:15
the modeline calculator is at http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
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08:48
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:48
<pscheie>
morning scotty
08:48
<sbalneav>
Morning pscheie
08:51
<pscheie>
Minnesota just released school testing scores yesterday. Tests were harder so scores dropped significantly.
08:51
Seems like a real opportunity to go to struggling schools and propose an LTSP server in each classroom, w/donated client machines.
08:52
<Gadi>
Scotty!!!!!
08:52
:)
08:52
<sbalneav>
Hey Gadi!!!
08:52
pscheie: Sounds like a plan.
08:52
<Gadi>
so, I brought a coffee grinder into work today and some Colombian Supremo
08:52
mmm........
08:53
it IS a good morning
08:53
<sbalneav>
Coffee == Good
08:53
<pscheie>
Now I just have to figure out how to make a living at it without tainting the message.
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08:53
<pscheie>
Gadi: Do you work with a lot of schools or mostly businesses?
08:53
<Gadi>
yes ;)
08:54
<pscheie>
Are the schools doing LTSP in labs mostly or are they actually putting the clients in the classrooms?
08:54
<Gadi>
in fact, if there are any Citrix gurus in the channel today, could they pm me?
08:56
the most successful schools that we have seen....
08:57
have dedicated labs for specific purposes (multimedia, web research, ...) and use the appropriate technology in each
08:57
using LTSP for most
08:57
but MACs, too where appropriate
08:57
in the classrooms, you really need teacher enthusiasts to make LTSP work well
08:58
or, OSS in general for that matter
08:58
as, usually the teacher is the king/queen of her classroom kingdom
08:59
<pscheie>
It seems to me that LTSP clients in the classroom should be the default config, with labs of fat clients,
08:59
be they Macs or Win or Linux, for specialized uses like video editing, etc.
09:00
From what the guys in Atlanta have said, in the classroom, the use is mostly reading and writing,
09:00
<Gadi>
right
09:00
<pscheie>
which is what the kids should be doing anyway.
09:00
<Gadi>
well, were saying a lot of the same thing
09:00
where it fails is...
09:00
when the teachers expect to use every machine in the school for the same things
09:00
and plan lessons on that assumption
09:02
<pscheie>
Right. The irony is that the kids don't have access to those Mac/Win apps now--they only get 35 minutes/week on the PC
09:04
I asked Steve Hargadon to interview some teachers & principals who are using LTSP in the classroom, not the lab,
09:04
so there is a record of how it works well given the right approach
09:06
<Gadi>
yeah, really it only works well if the teachers get into it
09:07
teachers dont really care what the technology is as long as they know how to use it to teach
09:07
and know that they can rely on it
09:07
*most* teachers are fine with the basics
09:08
but, some want to incorporate things like Google Earth into their classroom lessons
09:08
and when they plan on it and the thin clients just cant deliver it, it gets frustrating
09:09
so, there just has to be a good understanding of how to plan
09:09
and that goes for anyone - not only teachers
09:09
users will adapt
09:09
they just get frustrated by surprises
09:09
<pscheie>
Is Google Earth to network intensive on thin clients?
09:10
to=too
09:11
<Gadi>
The bottlenecks to graphic-intense applications in a thin client environment can be in a few places - not just the network
09:11
but the network could be one
09:11
another is the video chipset in the client
09:11
Google Earth on my PIII/1GHz laptop with an old i810 video chip is not so fun
09:11
;)
09:12
not terrible
09:12
but, if my laptop were a thin client, Im sure it wouldnt help
09:12
:)
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09:14
<pscheie>
I haven't tried GE; is it any worse than, say, flash video? (which works but has scaling problems)
09:16
<Gadi>
pscheie: aside from hardware limitations, the other thing screwing up LTSP video is that our sound subsystem (esd) is fundamentally broken
09:17
many apps try to sync sound to video, and screw up video in the process due to the broken sound
09:17
once we fix sound, video of all kinds in the apps will get a boost
09:17
and then, the only remaining issues should be ones of hardware bottlenecks
09:21
<pscheie>
Aye, we've talked about sound problems. But can 'we' fix the problems, or does that really fall on the app devs,
09:21
<Gadi>
no, we can fix
09:21
<pscheie>
to use gstreamer or pulse, or to at least not use /dev/dsp?
09:21
<Gadi>
and we will - with pulseaudio
09:22
most apps are no longer writing to /dev/dsp, since ALSA is default for 2.6 kernel
09:22
and those that are, are switching
09:22
<pscheie>
except java, right?
09:22
<Gadi>
once we redirect ALSA calls to pulse and use pulse on the thin client, we should be good to go
09:23
and pulse will correctly report feedback to the apps that they need that esd currently does not
09:23
in terms of latency and such
09:23
<pscheie>
so, what's the work that actually needs to be done to implement pulse on the client?
09:23
Is that working in ltsp5?
09:26
<sbalneav>
pscheie: We're beginning work on it now.
09:26
<Gadi>
LTSP5 will be "released" in the spring, most likely
09:26
patience
09:29
<pscheie>
oh, I'm patient--I'm curious about the details of implementing it, not because I'm trying to rush anyone, but because I want to understand the issues in solving the problem(s)
09:35
<Gadi>
heh, jk :)
09:42
<sbalneav>
pscheie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyPlusOneThinclientSound
09:42
<pscheie>
jammcq mentioned that ltsp5 is running on Edgy now; I've got Edgy downloaded but not installed yet
09:42
sbalneav:tx
09:43
<Gadi>
LTSP5 is not 100% feature complete with LTSP 4.2 as of yet
09:43
so, some of us don't consider it "released" yet
09:43
but 95% of LTSP5 is in edgy
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11:21
<joebaker>
Thanks for the discussion of Pulse Audio. I just read the above link. It is exciting to see the prospect of being able to control the mixer settings of the thin client and to be able to use the Microphone. The ability to deal with latency issues is very interesting as well.
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11:35
<pani_alex>
cuestion
11:36
does the client's save the conf i make when i turn off?
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11:38
<vagrantc>
pani_alex: what conf?
11:38
<joebaker>
pani_alex: I think so. The user's desktop preferences are likely saved in their home directory prefs for KDE or GNOME.
11:42
<pani_alex>
i put a ltsp client, thats all, don't know what config it is
11:42
k12ltsp(fedora5 with ltsp 4.2)
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12:01
<winter>
Hi!
12:01
<joebaker>
Hello winter.
12:01
<winter>
somebody can resolv this trouble? or comunicate to webmaster of wiki?
12:02
I try to enter the wiki to 1 last month aprox. and they tell me:
12:02
Attention
12:02
Error
12:02
Your IP address 201.231.48.6 is black listed at the TWiki web site due to excessive access or suspicious activities. Please contact site administrator jam@ltsp.org if you got on the list by mistake.
12:02
Hello joebaker!
12:03
and for my es very important enter to the wiki from my job, because I do not internet access in my house!
12:04
and send emails to Jim (adminstrator)and nothing... no one answer...
12:04
thanks...
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12:26
<joebaker>
winter. Is the ip address 201.231.48.6 a static IP address from your office?
12:27
<winter>
no!
12:27
its a dynamic address!!
12:27
let me ask to the administrator
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12:29
<winter>
yesss it is a cablemodem conction...
12:29
but I do not understand why I have blocked.
12:29
<joebaker>
http://www.ioncannon.net/dnsbl/ Winter... I looked it up at this site. It appears to be from within a dynamic IP pool. Maybe the administrator of the WiKI needs to consider relaxing the dynamic IP pool restriction.
12:29
<winter>
I send mails to Jim but no one answer!
12:30
<joebaker>
I'm sure he will in time.
12:30
Maybe you could use some sort of proxy service so that your requests come from another IP address.
12:31
winter ... You were able to make some changes, then it stopped letting you do so?
12:31
<sbalneav>
If someone's hacking the wiki from that pool, I'd be against relaxing it.
12:31
<winter>
maybe... but... if I can not enter to the wiki I do not have aknoweldge base!!
12:32
<joebaker>
winter, are you saying that you cannot even read the pages?
12:33
sbalneav: I'd agree.
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12:34
<sbalneav>
hey ogra!
12:34
How's allhands?
12:35
<winter>
no one!!!!
12:35
<sbalneav>
winter: when did you send the email?
12:35
<joebaker>
winter: what part of the world is .ar from (Argentina?)
12:36
<winter>
when I try to enter to the index of the wiki.. this fired me!!!
12:36
yes.. I am AArgentinian
12:36
I send 2 o 3 mails to the wiki admin 2 or 3 weeks ago...
12:37
sorry for my baad englich!
12:37
<joebaker>
Cool. My daughter is doing a report at school about Argentina. (We're in the US - Wisconsin)
12:37
<winter>
hey! good!
12:38
<pscheie>
joebaker: Where in WI?
12:38
<winter>
I tell you that I have working to the goverment in education and we are implement LTSP in kinder andprimary schools
12:39
<joebaker>
Sometimes spam type restriction systems use calculations which put certian countries at a disadvantage. I doubt AR is one of those.
12:39
pscheie: Burlington, Wisconsin http://www.burlingtonlinux.org
12:39
<sbalneav>
winter: We've been dealing with the latest version of LTSP for the last couple of weeks, and have all been away. I'd suggest sending another email, and see what happens. However, if there's been hack attempts from that IP range, I'd find it unlikely that we'd be willing to relax the restictrictions that much. Best would be to speak to your provider, and have them crack down on whoever's causing the trouble, and get your address range off the blo
12:39
ck list.
12:40
<_rodrigo_>
sbalneav:
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12:41
<ogra>
sbalneav, busy ...
12:41
<sbalneav>
_rodrigo_: Yes?
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12:41
<_rodrigo_>
remeber that serial module error?
12:41
<sbalneav>
yes.
12:41
<_rodrigo_>
that I bother jammcq and you much time?
12:42
well, I looked at the other working terminal and it has the same error, but it loads
12:42
<winter>
thaks a lot!
12:42
<_rodrigo_>
I tryied vesa instead of auto in the xorg driver in lts.conf and the damn machine got up!
12:43
I think it was the first thing I should have tried, but well I thought it was that
12:43
<pscheie>
joebaker: Not that I like to tell people what they should do, but you should :-) plan on coming to Minneapolis next June for our LTSP conference.
12:43
We had a couple of people this past year from the Milwaukee area.
12:44
One guy left his sick wife at 2am to come.
12:44
drove all night
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12:47
<_rodrigo_>
I thought it was the serial driver because of that error (FATAL: Coudn't load serial module) and in the wiki it says if it doesn't get the mouse X won't load
12:48
but it was a stupid thing after all
12:48
the autodetection made the X crash
12:48
or don't load
12:48
and hang up the machine
12:49
well, I wanted you to know because you spent time on it, and thanks again for your time (and jammcq's)
12:49
<sbalneav>
No problem
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12:51
<joebaker>
pscheie: You can bet that I'll be there. I drove up for WineConf (2004 I think) which was also in Minneapolis.
12:52
pscheie: Do you recall who came up from Milwaukee? Gary Nutbeam? Or maybe Scott DeVoss?
12:57
Question: We are deploying a brand new LTSP box. Ubuntu ( or maybe Edubuntu ) will be the distribution. We like the LTS option of Ubuntu, but will that hold us back from using the latest developments like those in Edgy? It is confusing also on the LTS terms when they say 3 years for desktop 5 years for server. LTSP deployments are a rich combination of both Desktop and Server components. I'm thinking about support issues should
12:58
We already have 4.1 and 4.2 deployed on a Mandriva 2006.0 system.
12:59
<pscheie>
joebaker: David Markovich and Joe Wiederman. They're both admins at schools.
13:00
We had two days: Day 1 was all K12LTSP; we sent invites to every school in MN.
13:01
<joebaker>
pscheie: Excellent! I'll have to get in contact with them. do they have handles here on freenode?
13:01
<pscheie>
Day2 was LTSP general; sbalneav and jammcq spoke, as did Chris Hertel of Samba
13:01
<winter>
joebaker!
13:02
<joebaker>
yes winter
13:02
<winter>
I have insert LTSP 4.2.2U2 in Ubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long Term Support)
13:02
and works very well!
13:02
<joebaker>
I like my name with an exclamation point by it :)
13:03
<pscheie>
I don't think Joe or David are on here. David sometimes shows up on either the ltsp or k12ltsp mailing list.
13:03
<winter>
but now I hav works on LTSP 4.1.1 in this distros
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13:05
<pscheie>
I found them both via the frappr map at k12ltsp.com.
13:05
But it's got so much flashy junk on it, and the performance, which was never very good, sucks so bad, that I rarely look at it anymore.
13:06
Pity. It was cool to begin with.
13:06
joebaker: see www.nclinux.net for a look at what we did this past summer.
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13:16
<joebaker>
It looks really cool! Thanks for making such a nice web site about it all.
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13:18
<pscheie>
The credit goes to Jim Kronebusch, as his company provided the hosting and he did much of the setup. I just put in the content.
13:18
<cliebow_>
sbalneav:I'll say hi
13:18
<sbalneav>
Hey cliebow
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13:22
<bricode>
Has anyone come across a use case for dual head thin clients?
13:26
<joebaker>
bricode: Most of our laptop users are getting spoiled with dual headed displays now. I think we will need some dual headed LTSP clients in the next year.
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13:37
<bricode>
What are people's general costs and lot sizes for thin clients? We're looking at forming a buyers group to reduce costs...
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13:42
<sbalneav>
bricode: Buyers group where? Based in a city, province, or a country wide thing?
13:43
<bricode>
sbalneav: North America, but could potentially be expanded to a global entity. Currently based in Canada (where the market is obviously smaller).
13:47
<sbalneav>
I built my own thin clients from Via EPIA 5000 mobos and small cases for about $300 CDN each.
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13:58
<pscheie>
sbalneav: did you build your own just for the fun of it, as opposed to buying them from, say, ntavo.com?
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14:00
<sbalneav>
pscheie: I'm in Canada, as you know, and work for a government agency, so ordering things from the states that can be got locally is much tougher. Via boards I can buy in town, so they're the better option for us. Plus, no exchange rate.
14:02
<bricode>
We're working with a supplier in the US that does manufacturing in Hong Kong. Our goal is to have low cost, low power consumption, yet support multimedia and audio applications.
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14:04
<pscheie>
bricode: Some folks in Atlanta got 60 clients @$99 a piece from ntavo.com which I think is in Pennsylvania. List price is $150.
14:04
Haven't tried one myself.
14:05
I like the look of the norhtec (sp?) TC shown on Linux Devices
14:09
<cliebow_>
pscheie:im still waiting for one toshow up
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14:13
<cliebow_>
dtrask:Hey!
14:14
<dtrask>
dude!
14:14
<cliebow_>
how did you fond Mt View?
14:14
<dtrask>
cliebow_: You asked about Mtn View....read all about it here http://dtrask.wordpress.com
14:15
awesome, but long...we had a good time though
14:15
I was tired when I got home
14:15
cliebow_: smbldap_installer is now the basis for the new Edubuntu Authentication server
14:16
<cliebow_>
i was..and i was only gone 4 days..course i only got one nights sleep
14:16
cool!
14:16
<dtrask>
cliebow_: can't wait to see what becomes of it....should be really cool with a nice GUI
14:16
cliebow_: how was your flight home?
14:17
cliebow_: our sucked....red eye with screaming baby
14:17
<cliebow_>
if it has easy buttons for pws..adding users/groups.it would be awesome
14:17
heh..it was only 22 hours all told
14:18
<dtrask>
cliebow_: nice thing is that now that it's part of Ubuntu...only way to go is up from here
14:18
cliebow_: wow
14:18
<cliebow_>
my gut was bothering me..just made it to the airport
14:18
<dtrask>
cliebow_: we had 4.5 hours to Washington Dulles...and then 1 hour to Manchester
14:19
<cliebow_>
jammcq spelled milton mliton on the ticket..wouldnt let me thru security in Minneapolis
14:19
<dtrask>
cliebow_: All that good food will do that....
14:19
cliebow_: how'd you eventually get through?
14:20
<cliebow_>
went back to the ticket counter..they sent me thru the pioots security line
14:21
<dtrask>
phew
14:21
long walk from Minneapolis ;-)
14:21
<cliebow_>
i was wide awake when i got home..but slep in inadvertently the next morning
14:22
<dtrask>
cliebow_: Ubuntu guys must be pretty busy....haven't seen Ogra for a while on here ;-)
14:23
<cliebow_>
he is around..was a little bit ago
14:23
<dtrask>
cliebow_: I actually got back on schedule quickly due to having stayed up for 24+ hours....surprised I was able to drive home :-)
14:24
<cliebow_>
you get jeff elkner to help you for nels washington/
14:25ogra has joined #ltsp
14:25
<dtrask>
cliebow_: Hope so....he's getting a copy of the planning emails and has been instrumental in getting it going....still very early though
14:26
OLI!
14:26
ogra: Hey!
14:26
<ogra>
hey dtrask !
14:26
<dtrask>
ogra: where are you now? Still in SF?
14:26
<cliebow_>
Hey Hey Hey
14:26
<ogra>
yeps
14:26
on the company meeting
14:27
we're hearing talks all day and are not allowed to open the laptops so i'm kind of on/off all the time
14:28
<dtrask>
ogra: ouch
14:28
<bricode>
ogra: no laptops? That's an interesting phenomenon.
14:29
<ogra>
well we're brought up to speed where canonical stands and what the activities of the different teams are ... since we all work from home its kind of essential to pay attention :)
14:29
we dont come together that often ;)
14:31
<dtrask>
ogra: hope the talks are interesting....still eating well?
14:34
<ogra>
not as well as with you guys ;)
14:34
but yes, the talks are intresting ... :)
14:35
its exciting to see where the company is going ...
14:40
<sbalneav>
Excellent!!!
14:40
And, what's most important...
14:41
you met KEN THOMPSON!!!
14:41* sbalneav is still totally geeked about that.
14:41
<ogra>
richard held a nice talk about where the education programme is going in the next 6 months :)
14:41
<cliebow_>
and KEN THOMPSON is? pardon me ignorance
14:41
<dtrask>
KEN THOMPSON! We met him!
14:41
<ogra>
cliebow_, the author of unix ;)
14:42
<cliebow_>
k
14:42
<dtrask>
cliebow_: He's da' man! The reason we all have jobs!
14:42* cliebow_ he says meekly
14:42
<sbalneav>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson
14:42
<cliebow_>
dtrask: you used xcode2/
14:42
<dtrask>
I have pics of all of us on my blog dtrask.wordpress.com
14:42
<cliebow_>
?
14:42
<dtrask>
???
14:42
<sbalneav>
?????
14:42
<dtrask>
??????
14:42
LOL
14:43
<sbalneav>
Whoops, you fail
14:43
<cliebow_>
bloody mac app apparently where they hide gccc
14:43
<dtrask>
oh that
14:43
<sbalneav>
Should have been ???????
14:43
<dtrask>
nah
14:43
<cliebow_>
trying to compile ktouch
14:43
<dtrask>
not much...just a few things to do packages
14:43
don't bother....just use Darwinports
14:43
easy way
14:43
<cliebow_>
but my pos mac has no dvd drive
14:43
i am using darwin ports
14:44
there IS no darwinport yet
14:44
<dtrask>
for ktouch? I used it....it's in the kdeedu2 apps
14:44
<cliebow_>
why the christ do they have to obfuscate everything
14:44
i am directed to kdeedu4
14:44
i am directed to kdeedu3 i mean
14:45
<dtrask>
maybe I got the number wrong ;-)
14:45
<cliebow_>
not for tigger
14:45
<dtrask>
Daryl Hawes and I presented on the kde apps at the McAuliffe conference a year or so ago
14:45
oh?
14:45
hmmm
14:45
cliebow_: you guys do NWEA?
14:46
<cliebow_>
yep..twelve schools
14:46
<dtrask>
going great here...using thin-clients and Win Term Server
14:47
also using laptops
14:48Skarmeth has joined #ltsp
14:49
<bricode>
Yeah, that was a neat trick. Maddog just calling up Ken Thompson for dinner.
14:49
<dtrask>
cliebow_: that is...thin-clients using K12LSTP connecting via rdesktop
14:49
<cliebow_>
yeah..i gathered
14:50
i got a laptop running ubuntu-ltsp..pretty sweet
14:50
<dtrask>
Maddog is an awesome guy....he full of so many stories....luckily I get a chance to see him a lot
14:50
<bricode>
dtrask: did you guys figure out a timeline for implementing local apps?
14:50
<dtrask>
Fiesty is going to be awesome
14:50
bricode: sbalnaeves is the better person to ask on that one
14:51
<bricode>
dtrask: He told me a story about how in a release of Ultrix they put the whole X server in the kernel for better performance.
14:51* dberkholz points dtrask at irc nick tab completion =P
14:51
<dtrask>
bricode: thought I did....did I type it in by accident? habit?
14:51
<ogra>
dtrask, s/fiesty/feisty/ btw ;)
14:52
<dtrask>
ogra: and the funny part is I'm a teacher ;-)
14:52
Feisty Fawn (there....I think I got it right that time) ;-)
14:53
<bricode>
Well, I'd like to test the local apps stuff when it comes up.
14:53
<ogra>
heh, yes :)
14:53
<dtrask>
how about Pheisty Phawn?
14:53
<bricode>
Play around with more multimedia and voip.
14:53
<dtrask>
LOL
14:53
<ogra>
*g*
14:53
<dtrask>
bricode: Fat clients will be cool too
14:53_rodrigo_ has quit IRC
14:54
<bricode>
dtrask: Indeed. Although I wonder how fat a client you really need...
14:54
dtrask: I'm a minimalist at heart.
14:54bjohnson has joined #ltsp
14:54
<ogra>
1ghz/256M should be fine for a phat client ... probably even smaller
14:55
we'll need to test that for speccing the minimal reqs ...
14:55
<bricode>
ogra: I've been having good success with just a 500MHz doing video.
14:55bjohnson has quit IRC
14:55
<bricode>
ogra: better if you're using XFce though.
14:56
<ogra>
well, no option for me in a default edubuntu :)
14:56
but i'm sure with xfce you would probably even be able to use 96-128M
14:58
i'll add an option to the ltsp-build-client fat client plugin that enables you to override the default desktop though ...
14:59
i.e. ltsp-build-client --workstation <gnome/xfce/kde>
14:59
its trivial ...
14:59
<dberkholz>
--desktop-environment would be nicer
15:00
<ogra>
why ? you install a diskless workstation (and i'm not a fan of such long options)
15:01
i'd even call it --fat ... abut that seems not completely appropriate :)
15:02
if you dont give an option the default desktop of your distro gets installed ... if you add a keyword it will override that
15:03
<bricode>
ogra: Sounds like a great idea.
15:04
<ogra>
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPFatClients <-- its roughly already there, just needs some extra lines for the desktop selection
15:07
hmpf ... the pulseaudio package isnt as straightforward as i thought ...
15:09
<dtrask>
ogra: You should know by now that it's never as easy as it looks :-)
15:09muh2000 has quit IRC
15:11
<dtrask>
ogra: whereabouts in SF are you guys? Anywhere near where we were more than a week ago or a different part of the city?
15:11
<ogra>
yeah, but i thought it would already be useable as is in debian ...
15:11
<joebaker>
XFCE, that's what Xubuntu uses right? So one could chroot into the LTSP environment and apt-get install xubuntu-desktop. Or you are thinking of something much more elegant I presume. Then the user's .dmrc file would have
15:11
[Desktop]
15:11
Session=04xfce4
15:11
... or something like that.
15:11
<ogra>
near the marriot ... (one block down the baystreet)
15:12
<dtrask>
ogra: cool...you already know the area! Stay away from the bar with the crappy beer ;-)
15:12
ogra: and the bad singers
15:12
LOL
15:12
<ogra>
joebaker, the plan is to not run ltsp-client (and thus Session= at all) it will start a gdm login locally
15:12
dtrask, i will :)
15:13
joebaker, you will have a complete workstation install so there is no need to run any of the screen scripts ...
15:14* dtrask needs a "nuke" all button on my LTSP server....
15:14* dtrask thinks he'll write a script
15:15* dtrask needs clever name for script
15:15
<ogra>
what exactly do you want to nuke ?
15:15
<dtrask>
ogra: everyone
15:15
ogra: all users
15:16
<ogra>
ah, so its not really ltsp related :) i thought you wanted to nue something in the thin client install
15:16
*nuke even
15:16
<dtrask>
ogra: teachertool is too slow....I want something on the CLI where I can log everyone off NOW
15:17
<ogra>
th efront/backend split of SCP should provied such a feature ;)
15:17* dtrask has a script, but needs to modify it to make it meaner
15:17
<dtrask>
ogra: yeah! Good idea!
15:18
ogra: how about "die! users die!" or is that too sadistic
15:18* ogra gets called for lunch ... bbl
15:18
<dtrask>
ogra: have a good time....I gotta' get going too...almost suppertime over here
15:18
LOL
15:18
<bricode>
dtrask: supper at 4:17?
15:19
<dtrask>
bricode: I said "almost"...Ok...so it's a couple hours off...LOL
15:19aaron|feldman has joined #ltsp
15:19
<aaron|feldman>
hellloo
15:19
<joebaker>
ogra, sometime I'd like to discuss something with you regarding the local-apps. I think I see differently what you mean by local-apps. Rather than a mix of running some apps on the server and some apps on the client, it seems now that you are trying to run all apps on the client. I had brought up some difficulties that I'd seen in trying to run a mixture of gnome related applications to the same user's desktop (without ssh tunneling
15:20
from multiple sources....
15:20
<dtrask>
bricode: actually I have basketball practice (I'm the coach) at 5:15 until 6:30....then supper
15:20
joebaker: no....local apps is selective....some apps....fat clients is "all"
15:21
joebaker: diskless fat clients
15:21
<joebaker>
Good....
15:21
<bricode>
joebaker: from what I understand, running all apps on client is the first step. Second step is to decide which apps are run on client or server side, and if run on server side, which server.
15:21
<dtrask>
yeah....fat clients is easier than local apps
15:22
<joebaker>
I think there is much efficiency to be gained by being able to centralize specific applications to specific servers. It has to do with high effencies of hitting CPU level 2 cache more often.
15:22
<dtrask>
fat clients will be similar to Apple's netboot in some ways
15:22
joebaker: true
15:23
joebaker: that should be possible...
15:23
joebaker: technically it is now....just not secure or easy
15:23
joebaker: building an app server is not hard...and running just one app on it....many folks I know have OpenOffice servers
15:26
one thing I'd like to see is a better way of loading apps. In the business world you don't see it as much, but in education you do...a class comes into a lab...teacher says "Let's open Open Office"....then watch your server spike
15:27
In most cases folks load more randomly thus spreading the load but in education it goes in cycles....coinciding with the start or finish of a class(es)
15:28spacey has quit IRC
15:29
<bricode>
dtrask: I agree. There should be some unique flash loading tech akin to bittorrent.
15:29
dtrask: there would have to be a fair amount of magic for that though.
15:31
<joebaker>
dtrask - I've tried this with applications being loaded from a seperate server than the LTSP server. SSH seems to help alieviate some problems with gconfd, but I was going for efficiency so I came up with a way to spawn an application using an ssh call with -x (disable X11 forwarding) and then set the display target to the thin
15:31
client.
15:32
I worked pretty well, although there needs to be agreement on where temporary files are stored and such across all the machines.
15:32
I was mixing LTSP 4.2 thin client on a Mandriva 2006.0 box, with a Gentoo box for creating the latest applications.
15:33
<dtrask>
well....ogra and sbalnaeves both graduated from Hogwarts so the "magic" shouldn't be a problem
15:33
<joebaker>
The Orbit & Gconf stuff seemed to be the most challenging to get working.
15:33
<dtrask>
;-)
15:34
<joebaker>
Orbit has some way to enable IP sockets instead of Unix sockets. That would solve a great deal of the problem (maybe all of it).
15:34
But I havn't been able to find any documentation on the subject (Although I never looked at the source code).
15:36
Dave Richards (The Admin from Largo Florida) showed me the efficiencies of running one major application per server. They ran Wordperfect on one box, not much else. Hundreds of users ran the Word perfect application.
15:37
I suppose we might call this "Fat-Server-Client" or something to indicate the servers are also bootable clients of the LTSP server.
15:37ogra has quit IRC
15:37
<joebaker>
Now we can talk about ogra...
15:38
Just kidding.
15:39
<vagrantc>
joebaker: by "Fat-Server-Client" ... do you mean a "thin-client" that runs a single application for other thin-clients ?
15:40Skarmeth has quit IRC
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15:40
<BilboFett>
server won't finish boot process... I think this is the same problem I had before
15:41
haven't done yum update in quite awhile and I think it doens't like the present kernel
15:41
how do I force it to load the previous kernel?
15:44g333k has joined #ltsp
15:44
<BilboFett>
help!
15:44
please
15:46
<Gadi>
BilboFett: hit escape while it boots, so you get the grub menu
15:46
<BilboFett>
ok..
15:46
<Gadi>
then choose a differentkernel
15:46
<BilboFett>
oh?
15:46
are they listed in order by date... or....
15:46
<joebaker>
vagrantc: yes... Of course It could also run an X Server and support an XDMCP session for a desktop session.
15:46
<Gadi>
they are listed with numbers
15:46
er, version numbers
15:47
<BilboFett>
so is hitting the escape button kinda like a step-by-step confirmation of each item loaded?
15:47
ok
15:47
<Gadi>
no
15:47
<joebaker>
vagrantc: The idea really needs a better name.
15:47
<Gadi>
the grub menu loads right after the machine POSTs
15:47
<BilboFett>
I think my server is running that one kernel before last that gave alot of people problems
15:47
<Gadi>
hit esc so you can get the menu
15:47
<BilboFett>
Gadi, you are such a great help all the time
15:48
currently my entire school staff is down because all I did was reboot :(
15:48
<aaron|feldman>
jobaker, killer app for that would be an asterisk server
15:48
<BilboFett>
they're in a staff meeting.. maybe I can get it up before they even know it happened!
15:48
<Gadi>
heh, thats why they call it "surviving the reboot"
15:48dtrask has quit IRC
15:48
<joebaker>
aaron|feldman - Absolutely. (without the X server thought)
15:48
<aaron|feldman>
yes
15:49
<BilboFett>
2.17.-1.2187
15:49
dammit
15:49
here come all the teachers :(
15:49
<aaron|feldman>
last time I googled someone had done a ltsp call center, but with the softphones being local apps
15:49
<bricode>
aaron|feldman: that would be the best approach.
15:50
<BilboFett>
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:50
<bricode>
aaron|feldman: I contend that time sensitive apps (multimedia) are best run local.
15:50
<BilboFett>
WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:50* BilboFett rolls around the floor with glee, almost to the point of being banned.. but not quite there :)
15:50
<BilboFett>
KICK ASS
15:50
<Gadi>
heh
15:50
<aaron|feldman>
yes
15:50
<BilboFett>
man
15:50
shall I yum it to the latest kernel?
15:51
I haven't run yum updates in months because of this
15:51
<Gadi>
you may want to change the default kernel in /boot/grub/grub.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst
15:51
so, it automatically chooses the non-broken one
15:51
<BilboFett>
well
15:51winter has quit IRC
15:52
<BilboFett>
if I yum to the new kernel now, it'll kill this "much older" one that works, and only leave me 2 choices, kernel I just rebooted to that didn't work, and the latest kernel, right?
15:55
<Gadi>
you can set how many kernels to keep
15:56
(I think in the grub file) (?)
16:01
<aaron|feldman>
does anyone know how to make the ltsp sound system "share" the sound server
16:01
mine seems to lock onto the application that is running
16:01
and all else remains silent
16:01
<sbalneav>
That's what pulse will solve.
16:02sbalneav has quit IRC
16:07
<aaron|feldman>
pulse?
16:07
<vagrantc>
pulseaudio
16:07
<aaron|feldman>
great
16:08
yum pulseaudio
16:08
<BilboFett>
what is pulseaudio
16:08
<aaron|feldman>
thanks vagrantc
16:08
<BilboFett>
<- ignant
16:11
<Gadi>
aaron|feldman: I can stream sounds on esd from more than one app at a time
16:12
is that what you mean?
16:12
<aaron|feldman>
well yes
16:12
but I installed the ALSA patch
16:12
and then it doesn't work anymore
16:12
<Gadi>
you mean the esd-alsa package?
16:12
<aaron|feldman>
exactly
16:13slipttees has joined #ltsp
16:13
<Gadi>
that shouldnt break it
16:13* Gadi scratches head vigorously
16:13
<aaron|feldman>
oh
16:13
<Gadi>
hmm....
16:13
<aaron|feldman>
I found the pulse audio server
16:13
I
16:13
will install it and see
16:14
I might have broken it fooling around with SELinux
16:14
I made the mistake of turning it off instead of setting it to permissive
16:14
and it relabeled everything
16:15
and now I get funny boot up selinux complaintlets
16:16muh2000 has joined #ltsp
16:16
<BilboFett>
Gadi, forgive me, is your sound package aka pulseaudio?
16:21
<aaron|feldman>
BilboFett: http://pulseaudio.org/
16:21
its supposed to be a drop in replacement for esd
16:22
installed the rpm, still have the same prob
16:23
one symptom is that if I download a sound file off of the internet I can play it only once
16:23
after that totem says something else is using the sound device
16:23J45p3r has joined #ltsp
16:23
<aaron|feldman>
and spits out an error
16:26
<BilboFett>
I used to get that when I was anyone but root because those users didn't have rights to access the sound devices
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16:40
<aaron|feldman>
ty BilboFett, I'll check the permissions on what is it, /dev/dsp ?
16:42
<BilboFett>
I think there's 3
16:42
dsp, dsp1, mixer
16:42
maybe something else
16:42
actually opt/ltsp/i386/dev/
16:42
anything in there
16:43
<aaron|feldman>
ty
16:44slipttees has quit IRC
16:46
<aaron|feldman>
so should change "world" to read permission I gather
16:48
did that
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16:57
<Edwin_Quijada>
i have installed ltsp in debian disttro but when i try to up m clent i get the error from tftp
16:57
file not found
16:57
vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp
16:58
i check in /tftpboot but that file is there
16:59
the errror is ./TFTP error 1 file not found
16:59
any clues?
17:00muh2000 has joined #ltsp
17:01
<cliebow>
edwin:can you check inetd.conf and see what -s param is?
17:06edw has joined #ltsp
17:07
<edw>
what is ./TFTP error 1 (file not found)
17:07
i get this error when i try to up my client
17:07
<cliebow>
there is something wrong with your path
17:08muh2000 has quit IRC
17:08
<cliebow>
can yuo show ius the filename statement in dhcpd.conf
17:09
<edw>
ok
17:09
<ogra>
either that or the parameter for the tftpd entry in inetd.conf ...
17:10
one of them is wrong
17:10
<cliebow>
yeah..tftp often assumes part of the path based on the -s arg
17:10
<edw>
filename "/tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2"
17:10
i am using etherboot for booting
17:11
<cliebow>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/TFTP
17:12
if u have -s /tftpboot in inet .conf you are telling it to look in /tftpboot/tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz
17:12
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/TFTP
17:12
<edw>
thks, cliebow
17:12
let me see
17:12
<cliebow>
mon plaisir
17:12
<edw>
where can i see this?
17:13
<ogra>
grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
17:13
<cliebow>
it depends what tftp server you use
17:13
<ogra>
that will return the tftp line
17:14
<BilboFett>
anyone know if kernel 2.6.17-1.2187 is the bad one that gave many people problems?
17:14
<cliebow>
read that wiki page
17:14
BilboFett: no you
17:14
BilboFett: no you 8~)
17:14
<edw>
#<off># tftp dgram udp wait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /srv/tftp
17:15
this is the lne
17:15
<BilboFett>
cliebow, I thought I remember Eric saying something in the list about it giving people problems
17:15
?
17:15
<cliebow>
cant remember..i went ubuntu last Nov..
17:15
<BilboFett>
heh
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17:20
<cliebow>
rangerpb:howdy
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17:34
<rangerpb>
hi cliebow
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21:05
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:08
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
21:08
sbalneav: hey, do you know a good id3 tag editor/viewer for mp3 files?
21:09
<rjune_>
jammcq: KDE is a good one
21:09
you want a gui one or a command line one?
21:09
<jammcq>
kde seems like overkill
21:09
i'd take anything at this point
21:09
<rjune_>
right-click->properties may do it for you
21:09
id3 is a command line one IIRC
21:10
<sbalneav>
Hey jammcq
21:10
Umm, I've been using a command line one. More scriptable... hold on...
21:10
<rjune_>
Banshee has one
21:11
<jammcq>
i'm using banshee now, and it's showing some garbage in front of each tag
21:11
<rjune_>
as does amarok, but you're more likely to be using banshee
21:11
right click in banshee and select edit tags or something
21:11
<jammcq>
yeah, it's crap. I wanna try a different program, to rule out a problem with banshee
21:12
<rjune_>
LOL, I've not had any problem with it
21:12
<sbalneav>
I use id3v2
21:14
<jammcq>
hmm, interesting
21:14
jam@biglap:~/Music/Adrian Legg/Waiting for a Dancer$ id3v2 -l *.mp3
21:14
01 - Ragged Nail.mp3: No ID3 tag
21:14
<sbalneav>
hmm
21:14
I also used vorbiscomment from vorbis-tools
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21:15
<jammcq>
i'm gonna be real upset if I have to rip all these friggen cds again
21:17
<rjune_>
grip not fill all that in for you?
21:17
<jammcq>
well, I thought it did (or should)
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22:02
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: this is my little casita: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36196530@N00/297643087/
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22:08
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Cool!
22:08
Wow!
22:09
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: and a purty picture near where we live: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36196530@N00/297643100/
22:10
<sbalneav>
Is Spiral your partner?
22:10
<vagrantc>
yeah
22:11
<sbalneav>
Cool! Looks like an awesome place to live! The little fireplace is great!!!
22:11
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: did you catch the skeleton?
22:12
<sbalneav>
Yeah! The whole place looks awesome! It's like out of "Harrowsmiths"
22:13
<vagrantc>
all i need now is a keyboard, mouse and monitor to plug into this little diskless terminal, and i can rock out some LTSP code. :)
22:13
oh, and some decent speakers, to really rock out.
22:15
<sbalneav>
Party on, Wayne!
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<jammcq>
sbalneav: you still around?
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22:53
<str4nd>
hmm, ddos to freenode (lag is very huge)?
22:56
<dberkholz>
no, network issues
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