IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 November 2013   (all times are UTC)

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02:05
<bennabiy>
I am not sure if BTS is still going on, but I really wish we would not leave thin clients in the dust... It is what made us use LTSP. Please save the thin client!
02:06
I read through the different comments made, and I know that fat clients are more appealing for those with heavier hitting hardware, but please don't leave the rest of us behind! :)
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04:39
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: definitely not going to abandon thin clients
04:39
bennabiy: but may switch the default behavior
04:43
bennabiy: although, there are many facotrs beyond the control of ltsp developers that may make thin clients impractical in the not too distant future
04:44
much software isn't written with thin clients in mind, alternatives to X, more apps requiring 3-D graphics...
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12:24
<sd34>
hello
12:27
<Hyperbyte>
Hi!
12:29
<sd34>
I see alksg is there, may I talk to you sir? :)
12:30
I have an issue with LTSP-live edition on Edubuntu
12:30
and was advised to refer to you by Hyperbyte
12:32
<Hyperbyte>
!alkisg
12:32
<ltsp`>
alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
12:32
<Hyperbyte>
:-D
12:32
<sd34>
the problem is the automatic configuration gets stuck in a loop and doesn't end or give an error whatsoever
12:33
ahahah :D
12:33
<Hyperbyte>
Did you try the live DVD of the stable release?
12:33
Out of curiousity.
12:33
<sd34>
yes, same issue but gets stuck at a different moment
12:33
<Hyperbyte>
What moment?
12:34
<sd34>
the one right before it when it tries to restart a system that is called something like openbs*** can't remember the exact name
12:34
I can test it now to tell you
12:36
I'm booting the latest stable release for Edubuntu (i.e. 12.04)
12:38
taking longer than expected, sorry
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12:40
<sd34>
loading up Edubuntu 12.04
12:41
openbsd-inetd
12:42
that's when it gets stuck on Edubuntu 12.04
12:42
"restarting openbsd-inetd"
12:43
still in a loop...
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12:46
<sd34>
what I find odd is that this happens on different machines with different network cards..
12:46
none of them is older than 3 years
12:47
<highvoltage>
sd34: that's very odd. I've personally tested that quite a bit on Edubuntu 12.04 on different hardware. have you checked that the disc's checksum is correct? (maybe a bad download/burn?)
12:47* highvoltage bbl
12:47
<sd34>
I'm trying on both USB and DVD
12:48
same isos anyway...
12:48
I may have a disc check..
12:48
I'm always trying on Live OS, never installed
12:49
because that's what I should do, use it over a preconfigured Windows IT laboratory in a school without making permanent changes
12:50
I need LTSP-live to work for this :\
12:53
I'm installing with YUMI, might that be to blame for strange behaviours?
12:54
<Hyperbyte>
"Massage salon Yu & Mi"
12:54* alkisg waves and reads the backlog...
12:54
<Hyperbyte>
Second result while Googling for that. :P
12:54
<sd34>
on Edubuntu 13.10 LTSP-live gets stuck at "Configuring LTSP"
12:54
Hyperbyte: LOL
12:54
<alkisg>
sd34: I haven't tried ltsp-live, sorry
12:54
<sd34>
that's an enhanced version of Universal USB Installer
12:55
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, I still don't see why you can't just install one PC with LTSP. Will be much easier.
12:55
<sd34>
alkisg, thank you. What's your take on this though?
12:55
<alkisg>
sd34: it's very easy to setup ltsp in a usb stick and demonstrate with that
12:55
(or in an external usb disk)
12:55
<Hyperbyte>
Sure you'll have to put in a spare harddisk for the installation if you want to keep the existing OS intact, but that's not such an issue is it?
12:55
<sd34>
alkisg you mean actually installing on an USB not launching an ISO right?
12:55
<alkisg>
Right
12:56
<sd34>
Hyperbyte: unfortunately the laboratory I have to work with has very very old computers and I'm almost certain they won't boot from USB
12:56
<alkisg>
Then you press e.g. f12 to invoke the boot menu on any PC, select "boot from usb", and you can demonstrate
12:56
Of course that PC will be the ltsp server, so it needs to be relatively new, e.g. 5 years old
12:56
<sd34>
alkisg that's what I hope I can do, I'm having a teacher tell me if USB boot is enabled on the server computer
12:57
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, open case, take out harddisk... put in temporary harddisk, install LTSP... mess around with it... when done, replace original harddisk.
12:57
<sd34>
it is from 2004 if I recall, so.. lol
12:57
Hyperbyte: yep, not something they can regularly do though :S
12:57
<alkisg>
You won't have a decent performance then. Better take a laptop with you to demonstrate
12:57
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, wait, you are doing a DEMO aren't you?
12:57
So you don't have to do it regularly... just for the demo.
12:58
<alkisg>
300€ for a laptop/ltsp server, and 60 for a switch with a 1 gigabit port => total 360€ for each school to "upgrade" to ltsp
12:58
<sd34>
Hyperbyte: I already showed teachers how powerful Edubuntu can be and they'd like to use it
12:58
<alkisg>
markit is also doing ltsp installations in italy, you might want to talk with him as well
12:58
(in schools)
12:59
<sd34>
alkisg, thanks for the input
13:00
they can't afford buying a laptop, their IT laboratory is made up of dismissed office desktops from lates 90s and early 00s
13:00
just to give you an insight of what the budget is like
13:00
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, you're constantly thinking within confines of the tools you're given. Start thinking outside the box.
13:00
<markit>
:)
13:01
hi sd34
13:01
<sd34>
hi markit :)
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13:01
<sd34>
Hyperbyte: I'll think of something
13:01
markit: do you install Edubuntu in Italian schools? :)
13:01
<markit>
sd34: I've put online the doc, in italian, I've created, I give you the url privately
13:01
<alkisg>
sd34: without a server, don't even think about ltsp
13:02
Just put lubuntu locally on the clients and call it a day
13:02
<markit>
sd34: I use kubuntu
13:02
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, I bet you 5000 euros that I could acquire a second hand computer or server in Italy decent enough for running LTSP for absolutely no money at all.
13:03
<markit>
sd34: I've limited time now since I'm at work, you can email me or hope to find me online next days after dinner. In any case alkisg is a ltsp guru, I'm not
13:03
<sd34>
markit thank you :)
13:03
Hyperbyte: suggestions are more than welcome
13:04
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, but this all -has- to start with you getting rid of the "no can do" mentality. :)
13:05
<sd34>
well, I understand. I just have to do everything on my own and I'm not sooo much techsavvy
13:06
so I kind of fear of making mistakes since it's not my stuff you know
13:06
but ok, I'll follow your suggestion :)
13:06
Indiegogo would be a nice start
13:07
<Hyperbyte>
You could contact some semi-big local companies, see if they have some old hardware you could use?
13:07
<sd34>
that's how the laboratory was built :D
13:07
<Hyperbyte>
Sell it as a community project, mail some IT companies if they could help
13:08
sd34, start by testing at home and not the school. LTSP can work anywhere. Do YOU have a spare computer or harddisk?
13:08
<sd34>
yes, I'm trying different computers on my LAN
13:08
<Hyperbyte>
So do an installation on one of those PC's
13:08
<sd34>
now I will try installing on a USB drive from distro's installation wizard itself
13:09
<Hyperbyte>
Live media is fun for doing a quick demo or showcase. Apart from that, it shouldn't be used.
13:09
<sd34>
Hyperbyte: ok, I will install it on a USB to see if things start working correctly
13:09
<Hyperbyte>
sd34, do yourself a favor and unplug the harddisk while you do that. I've had Ubuntu installing bootloader in the wrong place many times...
13:09
<sd34>
I can try right now
13:10
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: many teachers here teach to 3-4 schools, so they do it with their own external usb disk (to avoid having to maintain 4 ltsp installations in schools that are not their own)
13:10
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, clever! :)
13:10
<sd34>
I will pay attention to details
13:10
alkisg that would be wonderful for me
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13:10
<alkisg>
And some of them use their personal laptops, when the school doesn't have an appropriate server...
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13:20
<sd34>
I will install it on my desktop, I have a spare partion for linux
13:20
partition*
13:21
will update you if it works :)
13:22
see you!
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13:31
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: That is encouraging. Thank you for the reassurance.
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15:39
<Zaphoid>
I'm having an issue updating the kernel of a LTSP guest running on an Ubuntu 12.04 host. Guest is stuck at Kernel version 3.2, where host has moved onto 3.8. I think this may be negatively affecting other things on the guests.
15:39
The issue is simply that it doesn't see the kernel update.
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15:43
<cliebow>
you ve rebuilt the kernel??vagrantc just popped in erhaps he can help
15:45
<Zaphoid>
Not really rebuilding, just trying to use apt-get to do what it is supposed to do.
15:48
<alkisg>
Zaphoid: 12.04 is still on the 3.2 kernel, unless you installed from the 12.04.03 CD
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15:48
<alkisg>
Kernel upgrades aren't automatic between the various lts* kernels
15:49
(lts-quantal, lts-raring etc)
15:49
So you have the precise kernel in the chroot, and the raring kernel outside of it
15:49
<Zaphoid>
Gotchya
15:49
<alkisg>
If you want the 3.8 kernel in the chroot, you'll have to install that manually
15:49
<Zaphoid>
I'd rather not.
15:49
<alkisg>
apt-get install linux-image-generic-lts-raring etc
15:49
<Zaphoid>
I installed from 12.04.3 LTS, thought that was, well, the right one.
15:50
<alkisg>
It was, it shouldn't matter if your clients get a different kernel than your server
15:50
<Zaphoid>
Ok. I guess my cinnamon issues are unrelated, then.
15:50
Have to bug them for help.
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16:07
<vagrantc>
i don't get the impression cinnamon works as a thin client
16:07
<ogra_>
it heavily relies on compositing
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16:11
<jammcq>
good morning friends !
16:11* vagrantc waves
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16:11
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey, gadi get you to the proper place yesterday?
16:11
<vagrantc>
yup!
16:12
<jammcq>
fantastic
16:12
I love it when a plan comes together
16:13
<cliebow>
very nicely engineered gentlemen
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16:13
<vagrantc>
google was off by abou a quarter mile or so, so we had to use our brains
16:14* vagrantc wonders if ltsp-localapps --wait is used by anyone
16:15
<vagrantc>
also, wonder if we could run ltsp-localappsd as the user on ltsp5
16:16
needed to run it as a user for ltsp6 testing
16:17
<jammcq>
cliebow: hey chuck
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16:17
<jammcq>
Is that your USB mem stick that Aaron put the photos on?
16:19
<cliebow>
yeas.. dont remember what else is on it..
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16:19
<cliebow>
you got pics ok?
16:19
bunch of archival stuyff...all my passwords..that kind of tyhing
16:20
8~)
16:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: was it decided if in ltsp6, there will always be a local user with the same uid/gid as the server user, even if localapps aren't used? (in order to simplify the code...)
16:21
<jammcq>
yep, I got the picks. I have to go to the post office today and mail back the room key for the seawall motel. I can drop your mem stick in an envelope, if you give me your address
16:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: didn't decide that, no
16:22
alkisg: but the code definitely implements that so far :)
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16:22
<alkisg>
If the ssh channel is always owned by the user, then that makes a lot of things easier
16:23
We don't even need to use xprops anymore, we can use the channel
16:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: looks like it's briefly owned by root, and then chowned to the user
16:24
alkisg: the ssh tuneel is only one-direction, though... no?
16:24
<alkisg>
No
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16:24
<alkisg>
You would need some listener, sure,
16:24
<vagrantc>
ah, yes
16:24
<alkisg>
but bidirectional communication is surely possible
16:24
<vagrantc>
listener server-side
16:25
the client can initiate commands on the server as is
16:26
<alkisg>
For example, from the client, ssh -M socket server ltsp-read-next-command
16:26
<vagrantc>
what's ltsp-read-next-command do?
16:27
<alkisg>
Then by writing to some socket etc you could send commands to the client, for shutdown, logoff, stats, whatever
16:27
<vagrantc>
could even queue commands up sequentially
16:27
<alkisg>
The usual buffering done by sockets, yeah
16:27
<vagrantc>
sounds good
16:27
goodbye xatomwait!
16:28
<alkisg>
So we're wayland-ready :P
16:28
(or, console-ready)
16:29
<cliebow>
jammcq: box 298 southwest harbor me 04679
16:29
jammcq, thank you..i ll get you a Lowenbrau next5 time we cross paths
16:38
<jammcq>
heh
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16:42
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Morning
16:42
jammcq: Hey jey
16:42
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: heya
16:42
sbalneav: did you see my new branch?
16:42
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:42
<sbalneav>
No! Lemme see!
16:42
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: added sshfs homedir mounting and localapps
16:43
<sbalneav>
Url?
16:43
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: bzr pull http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrantc/ltsp-pam-examples
16:45
required one patch for ltsp-localappsd that i was working on figuring out how to patch so it works with ltsp5 or ltsp6
16:45
since ltsp-localapsd just rns as the user in ltsp6
16:46* vagrantc should go to breakfast first
16:52
<sbalneav>
Hmmm not a branch.
16:52
<vagrantc>
hm
16:52
sbalneav: bzr pull http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/ltsp-pam-examples
16:53
oops
16:53
vagrant vs. vagrantc
16:53
i should just merge it into my launchpad branch soon
16:54
just put it there as a quick prevention against machne failure
16:55
if i can figure out the ssh urls for launchpad...
17:01
sbalneav: should be psuhed to launchpad now
17:02
oh, i ned to update the patch that hardcodes mate-session
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17:11
<cliebow>
hey vagrantc:installing debian i m never prompted to set root pw..or stting the clock..debian server stable
17:12
<vagrantc>
cliebow: using the default install?
17:12
<cliebow>
yeah...
17:12
<vagrantc>
huh. always asks me
17:13
<cliebow>
i ll reinstall for the hell of it..
17:13
<vagrantc>
whre'd you install image come from?
17:13
it's possible to preseed those questions out, for sure
17:13
<cliebow>
debian stable 7.02 i386
17:14
im going to 64 bit anyway
17:14
<vagrantc>
i mostly do pxe installs
17:14
<cliebow>
just doing a virtual machine on a macbook..
17:14
<vagrantc>
would be worth reporting a bug if the CD images were broken
17:15
<cliebow>
i ll double check this
17:15
<vagrantc>
sure
17:15* vagrantc continues to fail at breakfast
17:15* jammcq always succeeds at breakfast
17:16
<cliebow>
heheh
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17:18
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: should we make a shared ltsp-pam-examples branch in ~ltsp-upstream?
17:20
<cliebow>
vagrantc, my bad..not paying attention
17:22
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-pam-examples/+merge/193820
17:23
sbalneav: probably need to add sme modular hooks into the xsesion script so we can drop code into scripts and such
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22:58
<q2dg>
Hello. I would like to know if you know there are any plans to support LTSP in Fedora
22:58
I know k12linux.org, but it seems dead. Only in mailing list there are some activity, but they use a unknown version of Ltsp which isn't linked anywhere...
22:59
It's really a pitty Ltsp isn't available in Fedora, when in Ubuntu is so easy to implement...I don't know why it is
22:59
Thanks
23:10
Well, I see you in http://irclogs.ltsp.org./
23:10
Thanks
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