IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 August 2015   (all times are UTC)

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05:32work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
05:32
<alkisg>
Good morning
05:33* vagrantc waves
05:34* vagrantc is about to test the overlay patches for the kernel
05:35* vagrantc also submitted updated patches for loopback support for initramfs-tools
05:36
<alkisg>
Phantomas and I are fixing a few things in Epoptes, to prepare for the new release...
05:36
<vagrantc>
nice
05:37
any uploads i do to debian this week probably need to only go to experimental :(
05:37
major gcc transition is... annoyingly timed
05:38
<alkisg>
There's no hurry, the debian import freeze for 16.04 is months away...
05:39
!alkisg-todo
05:39
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) replace "kernel memtest86+.bin" with "linux memtest86+.bin", see r1516, or (#3) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#4) Support UEFI, or (#5) make KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES override user-defined RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, or (#6) add forcepae, or (#7) overlayfs with workdir: (1 more message)
05:39
<alkisg>
!more
05:39
<ltsp>
https://lists.linuxcontainers.org/pipermail/lxc-devel/2014-October/010686.html
05:40
<vagrantc>
forcepae?
05:41
instead of xnbd phantomas was looking into bcache, if i remember the name correctly?
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05:44
<alkisg>
forcepae is needed for some celeron m clients, they don't advertise pae but they support it
05:44
Yes bcache and dmcache, it'd be very nice to support those
05:45
Basically it would make it possible to run 10-20 fat clients on 100 mbps network
05:46
I think others here have tried it as well, but haven't submitted any code upstream
05:50
<vagrantc>
is dmcache part of device-mapper?
05:50
<alkisg>
I think so
05:51* vagrantc doesn't see it in the current package
05:54
<alkisg>
# modinfo dm-cache
05:54
filename: /lib/modules/3.16.0-45-generic/kernel/drivers/md/dm-cache.ko
05:54
<vagrantc>
ah, kernel module
05:58* alkisg also wanted to check DRBD for this
05:58
<alkisg>
"Writes to the primary node are transferred to the lower-level block device and simultaneously propagated to the secondary node. The secondary node then transfers data to its corresponding lower-level block device. All read I/O is performed locally."
06:06alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
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06:19
<vagrantc>
so, testing the overlay patch, i'm getting bizarre results where i can't "echo foo > /etc/hostname" until after "touch /etc/hostname"
06:20
hrmpf
06:24* vagrantc fires up strace
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06:40
<vagrantc>
ahhh... i needed to pull in the previous patch as well ... compiles... hopefully tests ok
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08:17
<vagrantc>
still having problems, but patches apply cleaner
08:17
work_alkisg: any progress with epoptes?
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09:15work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
09:16
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I went on a long bike ride, I'm ready to tackle the epoptes bug reports now :)
09:17
So, first of all, wily couldn't shutdown properly... let me see...
09:19
!cups
09:19
<ltsp>
cups: Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set 'ServerAlias server' in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or 'CUPS_SERVER="$SERVER"' in lts.conf so that it's accessed by its ip
09:19
<vagrantc>
wily sounds too excitable
09:19
<alkisg>
I think it's a mess, it's using 3 init systems... :D
09:19
<vagrantc>
concurrently?
09:20
or you take your pick?
09:20
<alkisg>
Concurrently, although some of them in "compatibility mode"
09:20
ps aux lists both systemd and upstart
09:20
upstart mainly manages user sessions, systemd mainly the system services... I hope they'll remove upstart for 16.04
09:20
<vagrantc>
which one is PID 1 ?
09:21
<alkisg>
systemd
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09:27* alkisg also tries ltsp-daily...
09:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the daily builds are at least building again?
09:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yup! thanks
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10:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: have you tried systemd + nbd, if shutdown there works or loops?
10:06
(if you tried in debian; in wily it loops)
10:06
<vagrantc>
works for me
10:06
<alkisg>
with nbd?
10:06
<vagrantc>
yes
10:07* alkisg really wonders why he's still on ubuntu... :)
10:07
<vagrantc>
at the moment, i can only test NBD in debian stretch, still working out NFS+overlayfs issues
10:07
alkisg: old habits die hard... :)
10:08
<alkisg>
I think mate is a good chance to move to debian
10:08
I'll deploy it first in some schools near me, so that I can support them more easily, and if all work fine, I'll do the move...
10:09
I think Ubuntu also wants to move to snappy packaging, which I'm guessing will prove that it's not working after 5 years or so... :)
10:09
<vagrantc>
i was having good luck with gnome-flashback, too
10:09
<alkisg>
My main issues with gnome-flashback is the keyboard indicator+layout swithing, and the menu panels that crash 2 out of 100 times
10:11
<vagrantc>
no idea on the layout switching, and haven't deployed it long-term anywhere yet
10:12
but was preparing to deploy it at the school i'm working on
10:13
<alkisg>
We're on gnome-flashback currently (1000+ schools), we haven't upgraded to 14.04 mainly because of that issue, and the sshfs keyring issue which fills the whole disk in a few seconds
10:13
both of those issues are OK in 12.04...
10:13* vagrantc hopes they're fine in jessie
10:13
<alkisg>
I think in debian, there's no keyboard indicator at all in gnome-flashback
10:14
<vagrantc>
well, we're doing tmpfs homedirs, so the keyring on sshfs shouldn't be an issue
10:14
<alkisg>
For 16.04 I'm thinking mate + nfs home dirs
10:14
sshfs proved to cause too many issues, security isn't worth it if things break so badly
10:19
Haha it's fun when we think we're fixing ltsp but in reality we're just filing bug reports in so many other packages..
10:20
wily terminal: ls: αδυναμία Ď€ĎĎŚĎβαĎης του asdf: Δεν υπάĎχει τέτοιο αĎχείο ή κατάλογος
10:20
<vagrantc>
calling that a bug might be a bit harsh...
10:25
<alkisg>
The console is using ISO-8859-15 encoding instead of UTF-8, after 15 years after we switched all distros to utf-8... what should i call that? :)
10:26
The problem is in /etc/default/console-setup, it has CHARMAP="ISO-8859-15" instead of CHARMAP="UTF-8"...
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10:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: could you please check this in debian? $ grep CHARMAP /etc/default/console-setup
10:48
Is it UTF-8?
10:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: in jessie
10:49
<alkisg>
Hrm, I can't find the commit that broke it
10:50* vagrantc checks in stretch
10:51
<alkisg>
Thanks!
10:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: stretch too
10:53
<alkisg>
UTF-8?
10:53
<vagrantc>
alkisg: UTF-8 in all
10:53
<alkisg>
Yet another ubuntu-specific bug, then... :-/
10:53
Thanks
10:54
Heh, wily has console-setup 1.108, while jessie had 1.123...
10:55* vagrantc wows
10:55
<vagrantc>
so much for ubuntu always being more current than debian
10:56
<alkisg>
In some packages the .diff now is so big that they're having difficulties merging
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11:13
<bojan>
What are the things to do immediately if all my clients are working slow??
11:13
MEans slow performance
11:18
<alkisg>
!directx
11:18
<ltsp>
directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
11:18
<alkisg>
!fatclients
11:18
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
11:18
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
11:18
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
11:18
<alkisg>
See those ^
11:18
fats are better, see also e.g. flash:
11:18
!flash
11:18
<ltsp>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
11:20
<bojan>
alkisg:i am having thin clients and it is all working good so far...Suddenly it is showing slow performance
11:20
and once i restarted my server it is working good
11:20
just want to know the reason for the slow performance
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11:21
<bojan>
IS there any log file to analyse??
11:25
<alkisg>
bojan: when you have slow performance, at that point it's good to analyze it
11:25
E.g. if at that point you have 100% cpu usage, you should check which process etc
11:26
After you reboot, you can't check which process used much cpu before the reboot...
11:26
I've seen gnome-keyring, zenity and a few others causing 100% cpu due to bugs they have
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12:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, how's your progress? i've mostly been fighting with overlayfs today
12:22
and kernel building issues related to that...
12:22
made some progress
12:22
<alkisg>
The console-setup bug is in debian as well, but the debian build-iso process doesn't expose it
12:22
<vagrantc>
i think the next thing i'd like to try is getting the loopback support for initramfs-tools to work with nfs
12:22
<alkisg>
So I'm filing a bug report against console-setup in ubuntu, I don't know if they want to fix it there or in the iso build process...
12:23
<vagrantc>
get a chance to try the daily builds?
12:23
<alkisg>
It generates a different /etc/default/console-setup based on LANG, if it's C or C.UTF-8 at postinst time
12:23
I booted a client and then saw that ^ issue and have been debugging it ever since... :)
12:23
<vagrantc>
that's sad.
12:24
C.UTF-8 is a relatively new innovation
12:24
<alkisg>
(an ltsp client build with daily builds)
12:24
<vagrantc>
ah
12:24
<alkisg>
Any .UTF-8, e.g. en_US.UTF-8 also produce the correct file
12:24
<vagrantc>
right
12:24
so it's frequently buried pretty deep?
12:24
<alkisg>
It affects all ubuntu CDs and installations after 14.10
12:39
<vagrantc>
no wonder i've never seen it :)
12:42
alkisg: how do i specify the image file to build with: ltsp-build-client --cleanup / ??
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12:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think we automatically name it after the arch
12:43
If it was in some path, it would use the file name
12:44
E.g. mount --rbind / /some-path, and then ltsp-update-image -c /some-path, will probably name it some-path.img
12:48
<vagrantc>
heh
12:48* vagrantc would like to add a --filename option or some such
12:49
<vagrantc>
it's a good default, but a little complicated to override :)
12:52
<alkisg>
$ ltsp-chroot --help
12:52
-a, --arch[=ARCH] Sets the architecture of the target chroot. Defaults vary by distribution.
12:52
That's not actually the architecture, it's the name...
12:53
There was some talk about it a few years ago, to call it "name" vs "arch", and I think "arch" was selected to match ltsp-build-client
12:54
<vagrantc>
right
12:54
<alkisg>
But `ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 --arch thin-chroot` isn't really intuitive
12:54* vagrantc wonders about ltsp-update-image
12:55
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-image --help doesn't claim to support --arch
12:55
<alkisg>
I was talking about (03:48:57 μμ) ***vagrantc would like to add a --filename option or some such
12:55
<vagrantc>
but yes, --name could work, and we could set up an alias for --name == --arch
12:55
<alkisg>
--filename is the --arch option
12:56
(which isn't supported by ltsp-update-image now)
12:56
So, `ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 --name thin-chroot`? Is that intuitive?
12:56
For me, ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 is enough, it creates /opt/ltsp/i386.img
12:57
And `ltsp-update-image /path/to/wheezy.vdi` creates /opt/ltsp/images/wheezy.img
12:57
The name only makes sense in the pnp case
12:57
So maybe that automatic name should be pnp.img? :D
12:57
<vagrantc>
sure, the defaults make a lot of sense
12:58
i just want to overide it in the unusual case where i have both an NFS chroot and an image named the same thing.
12:58
<alkisg>
Why don't you change the NFS name?
12:58
<vagrantc>
alternately, if we had ltsp-update-kernels generate different tftp dirs for the chroots and the images...
12:59
because i wanted to change the image name, but yes, that'd be easy enough.
12:59
<alkisg>
It's easier to remember it, pnp==the arch, everything else ==> already has a name, so don't use the pnp one
12:59
<vagrantc>
i ended up manually renaming the image, which worked well enough
12:59
<alkisg>
Anyway I don't mind at all if you want a --name option
12:59
It makes it harder to update it
12:59
And to use the --revert option
13:00
(the manual rename)
13:01
Hehe... the last year I think I've started trying to minimize the sentences that I write in IRC, and as a result I think it's much harder for people to make sense of what I'm trying to say...
13:01
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure there would be much of a need outside of development
13:02
<alkisg>
I did have a problem with older chroots named i386, and pnp also named i386, where the TFTP dir then came from the chroot, not from pnp
13:02
So in that case I just deleted the chroots
13:03
Phantomas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1484101
13:03
That's what caused the silly output in the VT in your wily installation
13:03
So you can check "affects me too" :)
13:04
OK, moving on to the NBD shutdown issue...
13:05
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, that's the exact sort of scenario where putting the tftp files in different dirs based on their source would help ... would make booting a bit more complicated
13:05
ok, i've got a patch that adds loopback support for NFS! yay.
13:06
<Phantomas>
alkisg: nice, did it
13:06
<alkisg>
Well, ltspd can solve all that, and serve /boot directly from the chroot or the image :D
13:06
<vagrantc>
which would obsolete ltsploop in our hooks.
13:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: nice!!!
13:06
<vagrantc>
now if i can just get them to apply them...
13:06
so NFSIMG support should work nicely...
13:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: that was about not requiring /sbin/init in the nfs export?
13:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, doing it in init-bottom required there being /sbin/init in the nfs export, but late in the jessie release cycle they actually used "chroot $rootmnt test -x $init", so it actually required a shell and test and aaaarg.
13:11
<alkisg>
:)
13:11
<vagrantc>
(the chroot call was done for systemd, because /sbin/init is a symlink that doesn't resolve outside the chroot)
13:11
so instead, i updated the loopback patch submitted in ~2008, refactored slightly, and added nfs support.
13:12
https://bugs.debian.org/468114
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13:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, now that we've spent all our time seeing what's currently broken, will we have time for our crazy new future plans? :)
13:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'm not sure :-/
13:19
I think fixing the things that are broken should be first, and when we're done with it, if we have time, sure let's look at new things
13:20
:(
13:20
<vagrantc>
i guess it'll be hot enough still when i get home that i can pretend to live in another timezone for a while
13:20
become a creature of the night
13:20
<alkisg>
Hehe
13:21
Maybe we can close the issues now and arrange another hackfest later on... maybe at LTSP BTS...
13:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: as long as it's the mediterranean :)
13:24
alkisg: a bit tired of the atlantic
13:25
<alkisg>
If others are coming, I'll be happy to arrange that
13:25* vagrantc wonders if there are any others
13:26
<alkisg>
I do think that something like flexible-boot would re-trigger interest...
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13:37
<dido>
hi
13:37* vagrantc waves
13:37
<dido>
some one speak spanish
13:37
<vagrantc>
solo un poco
13:38
<dido>
necesito ayuda con fat client
13:38
<vagrantc>
cual distro?
13:38
<dido>
estoy haciendo rdp contra un windows
13:38
tengo un debian con ltsp
13:38
y hago rdp contra un win
13:39
ok?
13:39
<vagrantc>
ok
13:39
<dido>
quiero que el cliente soporte los usb
13:40
cosa que el cliente en windows no puedo
13:40
y los de debian si
13:40
estoy usando freerdp para hacer la coneccion
13:41
y lo unico que encontre es traer los recursos del server debian
13:41
pero no me sirve
13:41
ok?
13:42
alguna idea con respecto a eso
13:43
<vagrantc>
usas freerdp con SCREEN_07=freerdp en lts.conf ?
13:43
<dido>
|si
13:44
<vagrantc>
yo no uso freerdp
13:44
<dido>
:/
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13:45
<dido>
ok gracias igual
13:45
<vagrantc>
pienso que es possible...
13:50* ogra_ notes he is seeing an amreican sitting in germany talkin spanish
13:50
<vagrantc>
naturlich
13:54
<alkisg>
systemd invokes a getty only when the vt is actually switched. Saves memory, nice!
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13:57
<vagrantc>
yes
13:58
so disabling the extra gettys isn't really needed anymore
13:58
although maybe disabling them so someone bashing on the keyboard doesn't get them
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14:08
<alkisg>
So, systemd brings down networking
14:08
on poweroff
14:08
That makes it hard to shutdown when the root file system is in nbd...
14:09
vagrantc, did you say that you tried testing + nbd + systemd, and the ltsp clients there shut down properly?
14:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes
14:09
<alkisg>
Hrm
14:10* vagrantc really hopes the loopback patches get accepted into initramfs-tools
14:21
<alkisg>
Manually running nbd-disconnect works fine, so the script is probably not called at all
14:24
stgraber: what is the plan for the ltsp-client-core.conf upstart job?
14:24
Will we keep that for 15.10? Will we replace it with a systemd one?
14:25
vagrantc: what about debian, will you keep the sysvinit job, or provide a systemd one too?
14:25* vagrantc would be interested in a systemd service or whatever
14:25
<alkisg>
Nice
14:26
<vagrantc>
i don't want to completely drop support for sysvinit, so it might be a common set of scripts/functions/etc
14:26
<alkisg>
I think that the main script shouldn't be distro-specific, the only thing distro-specific should be the hook that calls it
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14:26
<alkisg>
So, one script for start up, one for shut down, and sysvinit + systemd hooks
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14:44
<dido>
hola
14:44
<alkisg>
Γεια χαρά
14:44
<dido>
hi
14:44
<alkisg>
hello
14:45
<dido>
how can use my drive and usb
14:45
with debian 7.6 ltsp
14:45
in lts.conf
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14:45
<vagrantc>
dido: pienso que installar ltspfs en el cliente chroot
14:46
pero, debian 8 es mehor
14:49
<dido>
y para habilitar los discos y usb en el cliente de debian
14:49
en lts.conf
14:49
con localdev=true no me funciona
14:52
alguna idea
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14:57
<vagrantc>
dido: puede usar el pastebin: http://paste.debian.net
14:57
dido: uso "ltsp-info" i copiar a paste.debian.net
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15:02
<alkisg>
RUNLEVEL is empty now with systemd + upstart compatibility
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