IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 October 2018   (all times are UTC)

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08:11* alkisg guesses vagrantc is abroad again :D
08:26
<vagrantc>
no, just a little reckless
08:26* vagrantc waves
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16:48
<spaced0ut>
anyone around?
16:48
<mwalters>
!ask
16:48
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
16:49
<spaced0ut>
I'm trying to get a startup script running for a thin client. The docs are referring to adding RCFILE_01 = /somedir/startupscript.sh to the lts.conf file
16:50
i'm not having any luck with that. tried with a static user and the ldm_autologin user.
16:51
are there any gotchas or simple alternatives?
16:52
<mwalters>
can you pastebin your existing lts.conf?
16:53
and an idea of what you're trying to do with the script
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16:55
<mwalters>
Commands to be executed from /etc/rc.local when the client boots.
16:55
From the manpage referencing RCFILE_#
16:55
I don't think it does what you think it does
16:56
<spaced0ut>
http://termbin.com/gho7
16:56
theres a few commented out things in there from guess/check testing
16:56
<mwalters>
sure
16:56
<spaced0ut>
i did expect RCFILE_05="/etc/startchrome.sh" to execute though. gave up on the kiosk options a while ago
16:57
<mwalters>
you have the file in the chroot?
16:57
e.g., /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/rc.local ?
16:57
<spaced0ut>
yes
16:57
well
16:58
/etc/init.d/rc.local
16:59
when i edit that rc.local file i can see it propogated to /etc/rc2-5.d/ once the thing client boots up. but theyre never run. put some very simple things in there to check and nothing has worked
16:59
<vagrantc>
trying to start GUI applications from RCFILE* isn't going to work
16:59
<spaced0ut>
too early in the process?
16:59
<vagrantc>
way too early
16:59
<spaced0ut>
that makes sense
17:00
<vagrantc>
there's not any GUI available, and even if there was, it would have no ability to connect to it
17:00
<spaced0ut>
there are at least 5 guides on setting up a kiosk style client that reference doing this
17:00
<mwalters>
I think if the guide is not on ltsp.org, it's probably way out of date
17:00
<spaced0ut>
any advice on where you would try to launch something? preferably from a thin client
17:01
<mwalters>
couldn't you use "startup applications" when logged in as the user?
17:01
<spaced0ut>
i'm sorry. not thin client. from a user dynamically created by %hostname
17:01
<mwalters>
probably not then ;)
17:01
<vagrantc>
there's at least one major bug with the kiosk plugin, but otherwise that's the place to do it
17:02
but it's a pretty ugly bug that affects most modern video cards
17:02
you could do it from ldm rc.d hooks
17:02
<spaced0ut>
right. spent a few days working on that with no luck. i have very little experience working with anything graphical related.
17:02
<vagrantc>
but there are some issues with that
17:03
e.g. starting up an application before the desktop environment has started, mainly
17:05
<mwalters>
does the user get a homedir?
17:06
<spaced0ut>
yes once the thin client boots up everything works pretty well other than chrome being a royal pain to configure without signing in, ignoring my bookmark configs when i use ldm, and not launching at startup
17:06
<vagrantc>
yeah, you can get that ... but there may be environment variables not set
17:06
<mwalters>
could you just drop ".desktop" files into the user's ~/.config/autostart dir? I'm not sure this method still works, or would work in your situation
17:06
<vagrantc>
oh, you want an automatically created user? that requires more work
17:07
yeah, the autostart directory seems the right approach
17:07
<spaced0ut>
ill give that a shot right now mwalters
17:07
i don't require dynamically created users at all. have been trying everything i could with both
17:07
<mwalters>
that sounds like the easiest solution to me.... if it works ;)
17:08
<vagrantc>
there's also a global autostart dir, if you can use the same command for all users
17:08
<spaced0ut>
any idea why changes to /etc/skel have no effect?
17:09
<vagrantc>
probably because /etc/skel is only used when creating a new user, it isn't used to update existing users
17:09
use /etc/xdg/autostart/FOO.desktop
17:10
<spaced0ut>
ah okay im updating the image now to try it on the static user
17:10
will try that in a few minutes. thank you
17:10
<mwalters>
in either case (fat or thin), the user's homedir should be on the server, though, right?
17:11
fat clients mount it from the server, and thin clients just work via rdesktop or whatever
17:11* vagrantc wouldn't recommend the homedir, as the individual user may change it, delete it, etc.
17:11
<mwalters>
I guess I was more implying that the image shouldn't need to be updated
17:11
<spaced0ut>
yes for my static user (prod) it's on the server. in the chroot AND on the server actually. something i did to get around a login issue i was having
17:12
but either way changes made from the client are not persistent
17:12
<vagrantc>
this workaround might be causing you pain...
17:12
<spaced0ut>
interesting
17:12
<vagrantc>
homedirs definitely should not be in the chroot or ltsp image
17:15
<spaced0ut>
i was hoping to not need it in there. even though its bare.
17:16
<vagrantc>
in fact, if the homedir is present, LTSP will not mount the server's homedir if i'm remembering correctly
17:16
so yeah, that's exactly what would cause everything to be reset on reboot
17:17
<spaced0ut>
wow i need to go back a few steps. thank you so much
17:18
to be clear, you're saying that the ~/.config/autostart/ that matters is on the server and NOT in the chroot. then once I login as the user on the thin client it will mount the user on the server's home directory?
17:18
<mwalters>
for thin clients, it works 100% off the server (remote X session), only boots enough on the client to get there is my understanding
17:19
fat clients will mount home from the server
17:19
<vagrantc>
(thin clients typically also mount the homedir of the server, to support localapps)
17:19
<spaced0ut>
what I'm shooting for is a fat client here
17:19
too many of these thin clients to do all the work on the server
17:19
<mwalters>
vaasdf
17:20
sorry, laggy ssh ;)
17:20
that makes sense, vagrantc
17:20
but yeah, in either case, use the user's homedir on the server
17:21
<spaced0ut>
this is a really cool project btw. thank you for your work on it and helping me out here. i really appreciate it.
17:21
<mwalters>
chrome seems to run like garbage unless you use ltsp-localapps on thin clients, as well... just a heads up ;)
17:21
<vagrantc>
spaced0ut: if you're doing fat clients, you might want to consider the chrootless approach, where you just build the image out of the server ... then you don't have to understand when to modify the chroot and when to modify the server, as they're basically the same
17:22
!chroot
17:22
<ltsp>
Error: "chroot" is not a valid command.
17:22
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-pnp
17:22
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp used to stand for "maintaing LTSP without a chroot, using dnsmasq in ProxyDHCP mode". Now LTSP recommends dnsmasq by default anyway, so "ltsp-pnp" is now called "chrootless LTSP". See !install for an installation tutorial.
17:22
<vagrantc>
!install | echo spaced0ut
17:22
<ltsp>
spaced0ut install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
17:23
<mwalters>
are there any caveats to "chrootless" mode, other than the architecture limitation?
17:23
<alkisg>
chrootless is just one of the chroots
17:23
<spaced0ut>
so inside of the chroot i installed chrome. seems to run great. i havent touched any of the "localapps" configs in the lts.conf file. is a "localapp" local to the fat client or local to the server?
17:23
<alkisg>
you can add more if you want other architectures
17:24
<mwalters>
localapp launches the application on the thin client hardware (the app must be in the chroot/image)
17:24
<alkisg>
spaced0ut: the best way to make a kiosk is to create a /usr/share/xsession/kiosk.desktop file that executes whatever you want after the user logs in (or autologins)
17:24
<mwalters>
maybe it works better in newer versions of ltsp, it runs awful on 14.04 ;)
17:24
<spaced0ut>
that must be enabled by default then right? i definitely don't have chrome installed on the server
17:25
<alkisg>
What runs awful on 14.04?
17:25
<mwalters>
chrome on thinclients
17:25
<spaced0ut>
alkisg, with that method would the kiosk.desktop run for ANY user that logs in?
17:25
<mwalters>
something about how chrome draws... causes lots of updates
17:25
<alkisg>
spaced0ut: sure, whatever you want
17:25
<spaced0ut>
including the ldm_autologin user?
17:25
<alkisg>
All users, one user, one template user, one user per client...
17:25
<spaced0ut>
ah nice!
17:25
that may be exactly what i'm looking for
17:26
<alkisg>
mwalters: chrome on the server (thin) or on the client (localapp)?
17:26
<mwalters>
on the server (thin)... it ran just fine on the client (localapp) until one day it started randomly crashing without warning
17:26
It's working fine in my 18.04 fat test environment, though
17:26
<alkisg>
Remote xorg has started sucking 10 years ago
17:27
That's why thins are pretty much deprecated
17:27
<spaced0ut>
alkisg, for that method do i have to be using the kiosk plugin? i've been having really bad luck with that.
17:27
<mwalters>
planning to upgrade our 4 servers and move to thin clients next month
17:27
<alkisg>
Localapps should be the same as fat clients
17:27
mwalters: sounds like a bad choice :)
17:27
<mwalters>
eer
17:27
move to fat clients!
17:27
<alkisg>
That's better :D
17:27
<mwalters>
I had potato soup for lunch, I'm in a coma ;)
17:28
<alkisg>
spaced0ut: no, that method isn't related to the ltsp kiosk plugin
17:28
<spaced0ut>
could it be bad that i have in /usr/share/xsession/
17:28
mate.desktop and gnome.desktop
17:28
okay great
17:28
<alkisg>
imho the ltsp kiosk plugin isn't very well designed so it's fragile
17:29
<vagrantc>
we should just remove the kiosk plugin
17:29
<alkisg>
I mean, it was designed before fat clients and all, it shows its age
17:29
<vagrantc>
it worked fine back in the day, and then graphics drivers got updated and broke it
17:29
<alkisg>
While a kiosk session would be easier and would work for both thin and fat client setups
17:29
<mwalters>
what are the requirements for a "kiosk" plugin? autologin, autorun, and restrict running anything else?
17:30
<alkisg>
autologin is managed by ldm anyway
17:30
autorun is the .desktop file itself
17:30
restrictions => a user task :)
17:30
So... no requirements :P
17:30
<mwalters>
so the session itself just needs to be locked down
17:30
yeah ;)
17:30
<alkisg>
You can clean on login
17:30
So you don't really need lock down, just reset on login
17:30
<mwalters>
also that, "It's broken" "restart it", "It's fixed now" ;)
17:31
<alkisg>
Yeah, it's a great setup when you can say that :D
17:31
<mwalters>
The benefits of working with adults ;)
17:31
<spaced0ut>
its pretty easy to lock these clients down in other ways at a network level as well. the built in restriction to a single application would just be a cherry on top
17:31
<vagrantc>
we could ship an example ltsp-kiosk.desktop with ltsp that does some of the common tasks...
17:31
<alkisg>
Great idea
17:32
<spaced0ut>
are any of you using your fat clients to run only chrome in a browser?
17:32
<vagrantc>
and kill off the kiosk plugin
17:32
or i guess the kiosk SCREEN_SCRIPT
17:32
<mwalters>
There has to be a lightweight DE that wouldn't let you run anything except autostart
17:33
<vagrantc>
mwalters: that's an interesting idea!
17:33
<mwalters>
I can't imagine this is the first time someone has wanted to make a linux kiosk
17:33
<vagrantc>
yeah, but how many times does it take people doing it badly before someone does it elegantly
17:33
<mwalters>
hah!
17:33
Takes someone getting sufficiently annoyed at the existing solutions
17:33
<vagrantc>
and does the elegant solution actually get enough traction to not be drowned in all the bad implementations
17:34
<spaced0ut>
^
17:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc is our chinese wise old man
17:34
Oh wait he's younger than me :P
17:34
And not really chinese
17:34
<mwalters>
lol
17:34
<vagrantc>
ni hao!
17:34
<mwalters>
We all strive to be old wise chinese men at heart
17:35
Xie Xie, vagrantc
17:35
That's the extent of my chinese ;)
17:36
<spaced0ut>
adding kiosk.desktop to the /usr/share/xsession/ didnt change anything at login for the ldm_autologin user
17:36
do i need to reference that in the lts.conf
17:36
<mwalters>
I went on the internet, and found this: http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
17:36
<vagrantc>
spaced0ut: you'll need to tell it to use that desktop file
17:37
<mwalters>
It has a terrible name, but might do what you're looking
17:38* vagrantc would be surprised if ratpoison supports autostart
17:38
<spaced0ut>
vagrantc, great! by putting LDM_SESSION="kiosk.desktop" in the lts.conf?
17:38
<vagrantc>
spaced0ut: maybe just kiosk ?
17:39
it's been a while since i've done anything other than rudimentary ltsp testing before uploading to debian
17:39
<mwalters>
Last version was 2017, so who knows. I suspect you could accomplish most of it by simply removing all the panels from the user's mate session too, though ;)
17:39
<vagrantc>
i3 supports autostart, and is similarlly minimal
17:39
<mwalters>
obscure enough to deter most people from goofing with it
17:40
that'd be a good one too
17:40
<vagrantc>
true
17:40* vagrantc switched to i3 a couple years ago after a couple year fling with gnome
17:41
<mwalters>
Hell, I've read the manual and still have a hard time getting around in i3 ;)
17:41
<vagrantc>
not that i'd recommend it for general use
17:41
<spaced0ut>
vagrantc, that worked!!! thanks so much. now to figure out how to get chrome to stop asking for a sign in and set some default bookmarks...
17:41
do you guys have a btc donation address?
17:41
<vagrantc>
but it fits my paradigms well enough
17:41
<mwalters>
I have a friend who swears by it... but he's a golang developer who considers tmux and vim an IDE ;)
17:41
<vagrantc>
spaced0ut: i could get you one, for sure!
17:42
<spaced0ut>
dont expect anything crazy haha. but i'm more than happy to buy you all a beer or so
17:44
<vagrantc>
ltsp could use some real funding to get it back out of crufty maintenance mode
17:45
well, it really needs sustained funding
17:46
<spaced0ut>
its really not that far off at all. in my experience over the last week the only real problems were good things being drown out by old things. and configuration needed in more directories than anything else ive ever used before
17:47
<vagrantc>
it needs a lot of work to bring it into the modern day
17:47
<spaced0ut>
get me that address
17:47
<vagrantc>
heh
17:49* vagrantc rummages around for one
17:51
<spaced0ut>
check your sock drawer
17:51
<vagrantc>
exactly
17:59
<mwalters>
blockchain? Are people still using that silly thing? ;)
18:01
<spaced0ut>
nah. only money launders, drug dealers, and child pornographers
18:01
s/launders/launderers
18:02
<vagrantc>
and free software developers
18:02
<spaced0ut>
same thing
18:03
in china free software is more of a threat to the govt than anything so...
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