IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 April 2012   (all times are UTC)

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03:02
<alkisg>
Gadi: ?!!!!!
03:02
Helloooooow there!
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04:47
<dhana013>
Guys suggest any open source LTSP manager available, please guide me. I already tried with http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/bzr/ it's not working, shows some ltsp-manager:9511): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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08:05
<Hyperbyte>
Gooooood morning everyone!
08:05
knipwim, happy queensday. :P
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08:17
<markit>
hi, time ago alkisg told me a command to see what files are opened by a program when run, and I used it to find what config files firefox was reading at startup. I don't remember that command! any clue?
08:18
<muppis>
lsof
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08:22
<Hyperbyte>
Spurgeon!
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08:24
<markit>
muppis: lsof shows used file but I need those open during startup
08:25
once ff has started, lsof is of no help
08:25
except if there is some flat to specify the program to run and "monitor"
08:26
<muppis>
-c c This option selects the listing of files for processes executing the command that begins with the characters of c.
08:26
Option of lsof
08:27
Which doesn't work.
08:28
strace is other one I've used to see what happens.
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08:29
<JensenDan>
what port does ltsp listen on? i want to connect a client program to the server, from the internet. so i need to open the port.
08:31
<sep>
JensenDan, ltsp ? is a system for remote booting thinclients. if you want to connect a internet client to the server use x2go, or freenx, or vnc, or x+ssh, or xrdp or something similar.
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08:31
<JensenDan>
sep . yeah, but i can still connect to the terminal server part without PXE booting, and using a client, right??
08:32
what port does it listen on?
08:32
<sep>
atleast x2go, freenx, x+ssh are all ssh based so that would be port 22, xrdp would be 3389, vnc... is 590n (where n is session number) iirc
08:36
<JensenDan>
hmm-
08:37
<sep>
JensenDan, i normally just use X with ssh forwarding.(i have linux on all ends) and fast networks, you may want to use a light cipher ;; if you have a windows client look at xrdp and just use remote desktop on the windows client.
08:37
i also like x2go. but i would not bother with that for just a single client
08:38
<JensenDan>
iam a bit confused now.. do you agree with me if i say that port 3389 is the one i need to open out to the wan, if iam running out of box ltsp, and want a simple software client to connect from the internet?
08:38
<sep>
JensenDan, no. you are confused about what ltsp is.
08:39
JensenDan, out of the box the ltsp server have X11 and ssh. ; so you need a X11 client and ssh to speak to it remotely (port 22)
08:39
<JensenDan>
oh.
08:39
<sep>
ie any linux machine :)
08:40
<JensenDan>
yep.
08:40
<sep>
or if you use windows you can use xming+putty.
08:40
<JensenDan>
and, what about windows ? :D
08:40
thanks.
08:40
<sep>
but it is not the fastest for slow internet links.
08:41
so you can apt-get install xrdp on the server. and use remote desktop (then you use 3389)
08:41
that have absolutly nothing to do with ltsp btw :) you can do that on any linux machine
08:42
or you can use x2go server and client software installation required
08:42
<JensenDan>
does the windows clients and the linux clients share settings?
08:42
then
08:42
<sep>
what kind of settings ?
08:43
<JensenDan>
if i log in to "user" from pxe boot, will it be the same "user" if i login from windows client?
08:43
<knipwim>
Hyperbyte: yeah, you too
08:43
<sep>
http://blog.nth-design.com/2010/05/19/x11-putty-xming/
08:44
JensenDan, yes it will be the same user
08:44
<JensenDan>
super. is it hard to set up?
08:44
please name a x11 client, so i can try :P
08:45
<sep>
xming. but i think it's not what you what
08:45
since I belive you want to run the full desktop
08:45
<JensenDan>
i need to run it as i client.
08:46
<sep>
JensenDan, in X world the program drawing is the client; the program dispaying, is the server :)
08:46
if you want just one client i'd use xrdp
08:47
<JensenDan>
I want many clients, thin clients local, and "home workstations" from the internet.. :) get me now ? :)
08:47
<sep>
if i wanted a real remote desktop i'd use nomachines web client, and freenx. clients just browse to desktop.domain.com in any browser with java. enter username and password, and get their desktop
08:47
or x2go with a program installed
08:48
been a while since i used this, but if x2go have a webclient i'd use thatone now :)
08:48
<JensenDan>
so, there is actually no way to connect to this linux terminal server. from wan? as it is right now?
08:48
<markit>
muppis: was strace, thanks a lot (<alkisg> markit: strace -e trace=file firefox 2>&1 | grep -i <part of the filename>)
08:48
<muppis>
markit, no prob.
08:48
<sep>
JensenDan, sure there is. every machine on the planet have ssh. (except windows)
08:48
<JensenDan>
iam used to Win terminal server. wich you probaly can hear.
08:49
<sep>
there you need xming and putty :)
08:49* markit needs a "personal google search engine" for his notes
08:49
<muppis>
Heh.
08:49
<JensenDan>
no apt-get on xming?
08:49
<sep>
JensenDan, xrdp tries to emulate the wind terminal server thingy just apt-get install xrdp then try with a windows client to connect with remote desktop to the server
08:49
would be the fastest test, and you can test inside your lan if it's acceptable for you
08:50
JensenDan, xming is a windows Xserver
08:50
<JensenDan>
oh :D
08:50
first of all, with the xming i was talking about a linux client to the linux server :)
08:50
<sep>
JensenDan, xming and putty are things you need to install on windows to get basic ssh and X features that all nix based os's normaly have by default.
08:52
but basic X and ssh is difficult for people that don't want to read or learn something new (old).
08:52
so xrdp on the server and remote desktop on the client is probably easier to get people to use.
08:52
x2go or freenx + a webclient is the easiest for people. but also the hardest for the admin :)
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08:55
<dhana013>
Guys suggest any open source LTSP manager available, please guide me. I already tried with http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/bzr/ it's not working, shows some ltsp-manager:9511): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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08:56
<JensenDan>
sep . works like a charm, exept the protocol thing, it disconnects me beacuse of a protocol, right now iam doing win client to linux srv
08:56
<markit>
dhana013: what do you mean with "manager"? epoptes let you control a ltsp class
08:57
dhana013: http://www.epoptes.org/
08:57
<ogra_>
dhana013, thats a dead project (feel free to pick it up and finish it ;) )
08:59
<sep>
JensenDan, protocol thing.. what protocol? ; win client... what win client ; ?
09:00
<JensenDan>
The build in windows terminal client.. and i have done apt-get xrdp. it shows me the login screen, but disconnects me beacuse of protocol failure, no matter what protocol i choise.
09:02
<sep>
JensenDan, i noraly just go with the default and i get a login window
09:03
JensenDan, also xrdp normaly pull in one of these ; vnc4server | tightvncserver | vnc-server
09:03
if that did not happen you might have to install one of them manually
09:03
<JensenDan>
everything is default, but no matter what protocol is disconnects me beacuse of "error in protocol" if i use a linux client, it works like a charm. can see after the apt-get it did install some vnc server
09:04
<sep>
JensenDan, sorry not experinced that.
09:05
also it's not ltsp related anymore, ask in #distro i guess debian or ubuntu :)
09:06
<JensenDan>
all right :)
09:14
sep to let you know, it is because it is win 7, and the apt-get gives me ver 0,4 i need 0,5 to connect with all windows
09:15
<sep>
JensenDan, still on lenny ?
09:16
<JensenDan>
10 somthing
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09:25
<dhana013>
markit, Not like this broadcasting
09:25
<JensenDan>
lynx iam on.
09:26
<dhana013>
markit, my idea is give permission in access usb printer sound like this
09:35
<markit>
dhana013: maybe printer permission can be set through cups? never done myself
09:36
<dhana013>
markit, you check this http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ i want like this, it's not work
09:37
<ogra_>
dhana013, see what i said above, the project is abandoned
09:37
<dhana013>
markit, show some warring (ltsp-manager:4882): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
09:37
<ogra_>
(and was never fully finished)
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09:37
<ogra_>
i just didnt delete it yet in case some dev wants to pick it up and finish or rewrite it
09:37
<markit>
dhana013: you should wait for Alkisg, I think he has something like that for his greek schools, maybe he is going to internationalize like did with epoptes
09:39
<dhana013>
ogra_, how to solve this issue (ltsp-manager:4882): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
09:39
<ogra_>
you need to rewrite the app for the newer pythin-gnome implementation
09:40
it wont run or be usable as is, it was written for a very old release of the libs
09:40
and never fully finished
09:40
(read: if you dont plan to rewrite it, just ignore it)
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09:41
<dhana013>
ogra_, Any other project is there, something you written like this
09:42
<ogra_>
not from me, as markit suggested, wait for alkis
09:44
<dhana013>
ogra_, I am new to ltsp. what is alkis?
09:45
<ogra_>
he is a developer and supporter who usually hangs around in this channel
09:45
his nickname is alkisg ... just wait for him to appear
09:45
hey Gadi !
09:50
<dhana013>
ogra_, I try with your project , Your python script write custom lts.conf selected particular user. file correct
09:52
<ogra_>
you wont get anywhere with ltsp-manager it is not finished and even if it would start it does nothing
09:52
the screenshots are mostly mockups, there are no backends in the code that would actually deal with the configs
09:52
do not use it unless you want to write a lot of code for it to finish it
09:53
<dhana013>
ogra_, ok
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15:07
<markit>
hi alkisg :) Long time ago I took note about how you organize LTSP users in schools, and now I need such an aproach for a school but can't find the notes (so far). Could you please briefly recall me?
15:07
as you know, I create an user for each child, but in that school they will have 2 children for each computer
15:08
and probably 2 schools, primary and secondary, sharing the same lab
15:09
<||cw>
as in, they are side by side sharing the kb?
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15:18
<markit>
||cw: I suppose so, sad situation but no money = no pc
15:19
||cw: also short minded teachers think is a "good thing" so students can help each other
15:19
what I've seen so far is that the one that is able to use the pc does, the other talks around
15:19
increasing noise and confusion
15:19
<||cw>
yeah
15:19
been there as a kid, it was "fun time"
15:20
so, not many options as a solution to that
15:21
do they have any saved files, or is it pretty much just research/web work?
15:22
biggest issues I see, if you give them a shared login, and you need to split up the "team", it'll take some manual work to separate out the files
15:23
if one is supposed to work a bit, then they switch, you could setup logins on 2 screens so they can hot-key switch between them without logging off
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15:24
<alkisg>
(06:19:04 μμ) markit: ||cw: also short minded teachers think is a "good thing" so students can help each other => there's a whole theory behind this, don't think of them as short sighted
15:24
<markit>
||cw: I suppose they will assign tasks for the "team"
15:25
alkisg: ups :)
15:25
<alkisg>
Some of them might not be able to utilize this, but some others might
15:25
<markit>
s/"short minded"/"except alkisg"
15:25
<alkisg>
markit: I suppose you haven't read any paedagogical theories, did you?
15:25
<markit>
alkisg: yes, I was a "bit" to harsh
15:25
<alkisg>
Please don't judge teachers before you do :)
15:25
<markit>
alkisg: no, but I observe what I see ;P
15:26
<alkisg>
As for the accounts, some teachers here use your model,
15:26
and some others use the "one account per PC per class" model
15:26
E.g. user01a1
15:26
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, meeting many of them have made me think the worse I could about the category, but of course every generalization has his limits
15:26
alkisg: and also my teachers are very different from yours
15:26
<alkisg>
where a1 is one class, others may be a2, b1, b2, c1 ,c2 etc
15:27
<markit>
alkisg: mm but if me and my friend are user01a1
15:27
and them next year we move to second class
15:27
we loose our files and the new user01a1 will find our files in his account?
15:28
ah, ok
15:28
<alkisg>
A script that handles end of year is necessary in all cases
15:28
Even with per user accounts, you still need group management
15:28
<markit>
true
15:29
but what about a "neutral" account aproach?
15:29
<alkisg>
That's why we're developing a user management tool
15:29
<markit>
accounts like "abcd" not related to class
15:29
<alkisg>
Are they student accounts?
15:29
<markit>
Bob and Peter will have abc01
15:30
during all they work in the school
15:30
<alkisg>
Are Bob and Peter students, or teachers, or something else?
15:30
<markit>
whatever class they are, they will find their files
15:30
students, teachers will have their personal accounts
15:30
<alkisg>
Don't you have split classes, where Bob and Peter won't be in the same class for some hours?
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15:31
<alkisg>
E.g. here class A1 splits into to, "A1a" and "A1b", depending on their english language level, advanced or not
15:31
Also, you again have the end of year problem
15:32
What if Bob fails the class?
15:32
Or what if they fight, and they want to change seats for the rest of the year?
15:33
<markit>
with user01a1 is the same proble, isn't?
15:33
<alkisg>
Yes
15:33
<markit>
and in addition next year I HAVE to change in user01a2
15:33
<alkisg>
That's why with all methods, a user management tool is needed
15:33
<markit>
sure, I want to minimize efforts
15:33
<alkisg>
End of year is a big change for all
15:33
<markit>
and re-use what I've already done for single accounts
15:33
<alkisg>
You probably need clean accounts anyway
15:34
<markit>
probably, thanks for the tips
15:34
<alkisg>
np
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18:12
<highvoltage>
alkisg: where do I find the ltsp release notes again?
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18:14
<highvoltage>
(ah found them on the lists)
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19:51
<mnevans>
Quick question for a fresh ubuntu 12.04 LTS with LTSP (5.3?): there is no /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server -- is the ltsp dhcp server somewhere else now?
19:52
...Or just point me to updated documentation pages - I was having trouble finding any. TIA.
20:14
<||cw>
I think it's all migrating to the launchpad site
20:15
IIRC there was some talk of dnsmasq, I don't know if that's been switch to default or not
20:16
for something simple (dhcp/dns wise) like a test ltsp deployment, dnsmasq is so much easier than nsc's
20:16
isc^^
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21:42
<mnevans>
Is there ltsp documentation for version 5.3/Ubuntu 12.04 LTS?
21:48
<||cw>
other than https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP ?
21:52
<mnevans>
Right - that is current as of 8.04, or perhaps 10.04...
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21:59
<mnevans>
Specifically, with ubuntu 10.10/LTSP 5 install, I don't recall/have notes to have installed dhcp3-server separately; but it looks like I might need to now, as it doesn't install as a dependency under ubuntu 12.04 LTS and install of ltsp-server-standalone, openssh-server.
22:01
<||cw>
is it a recommends? I know they changed a lot of that
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22:05
<mnevans>
@ ||cw, I don't know. Under 'ubuntu software center' (I miss synaptic), and ltsp-server, it lists 'isc-dhcp-server' as an 'add-in', and this is checked, whatever that means (I have some studying of 12.04 to do...)
22:08
from the documentation: "...isc-dhcp-server is the dummy transitional package from v3 dhcp packages to the "new style" dhcp packages."
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23:01
<fuzai>
Has anyone tried to do a fresh install of ubuntu 12.04 lts ltsp server and been successful?
23:01
I've tried to install it twice, and I think the nbd-server is failing to start
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