LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 October 2019   (all times are UTC)

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06:12
<alkisg>
ubuntu-mate-19.10-desktop-amd64.iso => boots perfectly in ltsp mode, yey :)
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12:03
<Nexion22>
Hi all
12:04
My real fat machines does not arrive on the IPXE menu and I can't solve that :(
12:05
On Proxmox everything worked
12:06
Any ideas ?
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12:12
<Nexion22>
dnsmask logs just says :
12:12
Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: error 0 TFTP Aborted received from 192.168.10.156Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: Unable to send /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: sent /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156
12:12
<meo>
uhh I dealt with it the other day
12:13
IIRC my problem was that the ltsp server changed IPs since the installation, so I ran ltsp dnsmasq to overwrite the dnsmasq config
12:14
<Nexion22>
yes it's true I changed server IP
12:14
but I done ltsp --overwrite dnsmasq
12:15
<meo>
yeah iirc you need to also restart dnsmasq and I think I regenerated the initrd as well
12:15
<Nexion22>
I think I did
12:16
I try again
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12:19
<Nexion22>
meo I restarted everything and regenerated but same error in log
12:20
I use an external DHCP server I do not know if it can help
12:22
It is on pfsense and I think I have configured everything like with LTSP5
12:28
My fat client get an IP and ... stop
12:38
<meo>
Nexion22: on pfsense you need to configure the next server and image name
12:39
also double check netmasks on pfsense and ltsp server interfaces
12:39
also bear in mind if your fat clients are old, you may need to update their BIOS because built in PXE clients are often crap
12:39
especially on e.g. lenovo thinkcentres
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12:42
<Nexion22>
meo I put ltsp/ltsp.ipxe for Default BIOS file name
12:42
<meo>
IIRC this is how it is configured yes
12:43
<Nexion22>
Ok ltsp IP for TFTP Server and Next Server
12:44
<meo>
in my config it was only for next server, I didnt specify tftp server ip
12:45
<Nexion22>
Ok. you also use pfsense for DHCP ?
12:45
<meo>
yep
12:46
<Nexion22>
What is in you /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-dnsmasq.conf ?
12:47
Specialy for DHCP-range and DHCP-option
12:47
I did not understand very well
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13:02
<meo>
the server isn't here so I can't look it up
13:02
but I never actually edited anything there
13:03
it's all generated by ltsp dnsmasq
13:09
<Nexion22>
Ok
13:10
Do you know what is undionly.kpxe ?
13:12
<meo>
yeah, that's for broken/crappy cards that can't handle modern pxe iirc
13:12
you can try booting from that
13:13
however if that works then you have another problem: dhcpd on pfsense can't hand out different settings to different clients based on their types (the UI doesnt support it) so you need to hack around it in order to substitute the dhcp configuration file
13:15
<Nexion22>
I tried a lot of options and a client suddenly started
13:16
I think after putting undionly.kpxe
13:16
<meo>
then first thing to do would be try and update the clients bios to latest revision
13:16
<Nexion22>
But I restarted it and again it does not start anymore
13:16
<meo>
also are you *very sure* there's only one dhcp on that subnet?
13:16
<Nexion22>
It's a Latitude E4310 just for testing
13:18
Mmmm only one pfSense here but multiple subnet configured
13:18
<meo>
on different interfaces/vlans i hope?
13:18
<Nexion22>
yes interfaces
13:18
<meo>
the latest bios version for this laptop is a15
13:19
https://www.dell.com/support/home/bg/en/bgbsdt1/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=wyxp3
13:19
<Nexion22>
oops A05 here
13:19
but with virtualbox it's the same problem
13:20
<meo>
vith virtualbox you may want to change the emulated network adapter
13:21
you may also want to look carefully at PXE screen and dnsmasq output to see that all the mentioned IPs are correct (ie not wrong subnet)
13:23
<Nexion22>
My LTSP is on 192.168.11.0 and clients on 192.168.10.0
13:24
maybe that's part of the problem?
13:26
<mwalters>
what netmask/CIDR are you giving to clients via DHCP?
13:27
<Nexion22>
Subnet mask255.255.255.0
13:27
like with LTSP5
13:27
<mwalters>
Is there a route on the gateway allowing 192.168.10.0/24 to communicate to 192.168.11.0 and vise versa?
13:28
<Nexion22>
yes
13:28
<mwalters>
It needs to be both directions
13:29
and you have proxydhcp or whatever set up to allow DHCP broadcasts between the two subnets?
13:29
(I'm not fully sure how that works)
13:30
<Nexion22>
on pfsense each interface has is own dhcp
13:31
<mwalters>
ah ok, so dhcp is coming from 192.168.10.whatever
13:31
boot up a thick client in .11.0 and see if the server on .10.0 is reachable and vice versa
13:32
by thick client... I mean a real computer ;)
13:32
live CD or something like that
13:32
start at the beginning and make sure the network config in general works
13:32
<Nexion22>
Unfortunately I can't 11.0 is only for my proxmox server. Only VM there
13:33
<mwalters>
I think the correct course of action is to get a client in the 11.0/24 subnet and make sure the routing to 10.0/24 and back works
13:33
s/client/machine
13:34
<Nexion22>
VM configured as fat_client on Proxmox work well
13:34
<mwalters>
just something in that subnet to test communication between the two
13:35
<Nexion22>
my computer is on 10.0 and I can connect to 11.0
13:35
<mwalters>
can 11.0/24 communicate back to your computer?
13:35
<Nexion22>
yes
13:35
<mwalters>
(probably... considering it'd need to in order to let you know otherwise)
13:35
OK, so networking works... that's a good first step :)
13:36
<Nexion22>
yes :)
13:37
<mwalters>
That dnsmasq error you posted above... is that from pfsense or ltsp server?
13:37
<Nexion22>
ltsp server
13:38
<mwalters>
so client is connecting to ltsp server and looking for file. good.
13:38
<Nexion22>
yes but just looking .. :(
13:39
<mwalters>
you've confirmed that file exists at /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe ?
13:39
(on the ltsp server)
13:39
<Nexion22>
yes
13:39
sure
13:40
ltsp.img ltsp.ipxe memtest.0 memtest.efi snponly.efi undionly.kpxe x86_64
13:42
<mwalters>
and the client never loads ipxe? you just see something like "no bootable device" or similar?
13:42
Looks like sending the ipxe rom succeeds right after the initial failure
13:42
<Nexion22>
they get an ip and directly stop with no error
13:43
<mwalters>
oh... latitude e series, right? What CPU?
13:44
pretty sure these were available with 32bit CPUs...
13:44
(series and model # of the cpu please)
13:44
<Nexion22>
i5 M560
13:45
<mwalters>
that's 64bit... so shouldn't be a problem
13:45
<Nexion22>
as I said, I got the same problem with virtualbox
13:45
<mwalters>
oh, I missed that
13:46
<Nexion22>
LTSP5 worked fine with virtualbox
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13:46
<mwalters>
I think i've seen reports of the ipxe rom used by Vbox being broken... but I haven't goofed with it personally... so who knows there
13:46
<Nexion22>
same network configuration but not IPXE
13:48
<mwalters>
Sorry, I'm not really sure at this point... it appears as though the client is being sent the file, but just not booting it
13:48
(regarding that dnsmasq-tftp log)
13:48
<Nexion22>
how I can be sure that it receive the file ?
13:48
<mwalters>
[2911]: sent /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156
13:49
it looks like failure, then immediate success is sometimes "normal" with dnsmasq... at least according to the internet
13:49
<Nexion22>
but before he said Oct 18 09:53:28 dnsmasq-tftp[1900]: impossible d'envoyer /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe à 192.168.10.156
13:49
<mwalters>
yeah, I'm seeing reports where that happens, but still works
13:49
because software is great ;)
13:49
<Nexion22>
VM in proxmox doens't have this error
13:50
<mwalters>
I'm going to tap out on this one, I'm not super certain. If you hang out long enough, I'm sure alkisg may have some ideas
13:50
<Nexion22>
Oct 18 11:46:59 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:01 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/x86_64/vmlinuz à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:02 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.img à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:07 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/x86_64/initrd.img à
13:50
192.168.12.167
13:50
VM log that success
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13:51
<Nexion22>
on different subnet. I placed a real machine on that subnet and no work
13:52
I'm lost
13:55
<meo>
you probably want the tftp server on the same subnet
13:56
<Nexion22>
with LTSP5 all was on the same VM
13:56
on 11.0 subnet
13:57
<mwalters>
tftp should work across subnets no problem (as long as routing is configured correctly)
13:57
<Nexion22>
I can connect to tftp from my computer
13:57
just to verity that it was reachable
13:57
same for NFS share
13:58
<mwalters>
it definitely sounds like an issue with your dnsmasq config... I'm just not exactly sure what
13:58
<Nexion22>
I tried many option and now just restore it with --overwrite
13:58
<mwalters>
I also haven't used ltsp19 yet... so I'm generalizing all the pieces
13:59
<Nexion22>
with the latitude at a time it worked then I restarted the machine and nothing
13:59
<mwalters>
Again, if you hang out long enough, someone with more knowledge will show up eventually... a lot of folks are probably into their weekend right now, though... so may be until Monday
14:00
Hah, that's so frustrating... I ran into that trying to get LTSP5 working w/ UEFI clients
14:00
<Nexion22>
yes it make me crazy :D
14:02
Yes I will come back on monday
14:02
<mwalters>
:) have a good weekend
14:03
<Nexion22>
thanks for your help mwalters and meo
14:03
have a good weekend too
14:10
<meo>
you are welcome
14:38
<Nexion22>
Bye all see you on monday for more funny headaches
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15:11
<ogra>
alkisg, just a FYI followp from yesterday (our discussion actually made me check and actually left me surprised ...)
15:11
$ du -hcs /usr/lib/chromium-browser
15:11
230M /usr/lib/chromium-browser
15:11
vs:
15:11
$ ls -lh /var/lib/snapd/snaps/chromium_881.snap
15:11
-rw------- 1 root root 156M Okt 11 03:00 /var/lib/snapd/snaps/chromium_881.snap
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15:19
<mwalters>
so the snap is smaller than the deb
15:19
is what I'm learning from this?
15:20
<quinox>
yup
15:20
that's nice
15:20
<ogra>
right
15:21
<mwalters>
oh... trying to get all my clients to show on a single epoptes server (4 servers at different locations)... alkisg sent me a termbin of something to do, which has long since expired now that I'm looking at it again ;)
15:22
0.0.3 is the local one, I want to see all clients on... with ltsp/epoptes server on 2.0.3, 3.0.3, and 4.0.3
15:22
haven't been able to find anything regarding this on the epoptes website
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16:48
<alkisg>
ogra: aren't you comparing compressed snap vs extracted folder there?
16:50
mwalters: if you're trying to have one epoptes-client connect to multiple servers, that isn't easily possible
16:51
<mwalters>
ah OK, I thought you had implied there was some sort of redirection or proxying possible
16:51
<alkisg>
You can connect your epoptes servers to a master epoptes server , if you want
16:52
<mwalters>
which would allow me to view/control all the clients via the master, right?
16:53
I think that's what we were talking about... you had said to put something in /etc/default/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/*... but the termbin you posted is long gone now ;)
16:53
(this is all referencing ltsp5, for clarity)
16:53
<alkisg>
https://termbin.com/2j0r
16:53
epoptes isn't related to ltsp version
16:53
You can do that with any, or without, ltsp
16:54
<mwalters>
I figured, but wanted to mention just in case... so this would go in the clients' /etc/default/Net...etc?
16:54
<alkisg>
No, in the epoptes servers' /etc...
16:54
<mwalters>
cool, thanks!
16:54
<alkisg>
And the ip would be the one of the master epoptes server
16:54
<mwalters>
yes
16:55
<alkisg>
With appropriate port forwardings
16:55
(on the master server)
16:55
<mwalters>
have ipsec between all servers, so no issues there :)
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17:13
<ogra>
alkisg, snaps are never uncompressed and i was comparing deb to snap
17:15
(snaps just get mounted ... squashfs ;) ... )
17:16
<vagrantc>
well, comparing the size to the .deb which is compressed rather than the unpacked directory would be more fair
17:16
<ogra>
wh ?
17:16
*why
17:17
i'm comparing runtime data on disk
17:17
<vagrantc>
fair enough
17:17
<mwalters>
is there any cpu overhead with the snap mount?
17:17
<ogra>
not with the mount
17:17* vagrantc is curious how the compressed size compares, though
17:17
<mwalters>
(any meaningful... anyways... it's probably moot when we're mounting / over nfs anyways ;) )
17:17
<ogra>
there is indeed non-zero overhead for the confinement
17:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: regarding Rules-Requires-Root ... i *thought* old versions would just ignore it or at worst complain about it
17:18
<ogra>
i.e. on launch ...
17:18
<mwalters>
neat
17:20
<ogra>
vagrantc,
17:20
ogra@anubis:~$ ls -lh /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-*.deb
17:20
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 60M Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-browser_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_amd64.deb
17:20
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2,9M Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-browser-l10n_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_all.deb
17:20
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 781K Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-codecs-ffmpeg_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_amd64.deb
17:20
deb obviously compresses better :)
17:21
<vagrantc>
what compression do snaps use by default?
17:21
<ogra>
xz i think
17:21
<vagrantc>
same as .deb, typically
17:21
<ogra>
on highest level
17:22
<vagrantc>
i've been really happy with lz4 for a tradeoff between speed and compression
17:22
<ogra>
i think the foundaitions team resaerched that lately for initrd
17:22
<vagrantc>
e.g. whenever i'm testing ltsp, it goes *so* much faster to build hte images
17:22
<ogra>
(but i'm not much involved in distro stuff anymore so not sure what the outcome was)
17:23
<vagrantc>
it's maybe 10-20% bigger images for LTSP fat clients than the squashfs default of gzip
17:23
<ogra>
nice
17:23
<vagrantc>
but maybe 3-5 times faster to compress, and a little faster at decompress
17:24
speaking of ltsp images ...
17:24
alkisg: i actually tested ltsp19 for the first time yesterday!
17:24
alkisg: nice work!
17:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: thank you!
17:27
(08:18:34 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: regarding Rules-Requires-Root ... i *thought* old versions would just ignore it or at worst complain about it => I think I had trouble building epoptes on xenial
17:27
If you want push it as it is; and I'll revert it if I verify that it fails to build
17:28
<ogra>
i thought you use github now ...
17:28
just add a travis job that runs a test build pre-merge ;)
17:28
<alkisg>
ogra, https://packages.ubuntu.com/disco/chromium-browser => 56 MB
17:28
<vagrantc>
it is *possible* that epoptes fails to properly support it ... though i doubt that
17:28
<ogra>
alkisg, and ? thats not whats on disk :)
17:29
<alkisg>
Right, you're comparing uncompressed to compressed
17:29
So it's apples with oranges
17:29
<ogra>
alkisg, no, i'm comparing runtime to runtime on disk
17:29
<alkisg>
Compressed needs CPU time that uncompressed doesn't
17:29
And RAM, etc
17:29
You can't really just care about disk at that point
17:29
<ogra>
snaps get mounted, not compressed on disk
17:29
<alkisg>
Otherwise just use stacker from dos :)
17:30
<ogra>
and as i said above, it has impact on launch time
17:30
but definitely reduces disk usage
17:31
s/compressed/uncompressed/ indeed :)
17:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: still find it a little weird that there are binaries downloaded at runtime with "ltsp ipxe" ... i assume there was a reason that the packages weren't used
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17:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: some of the things the ltsp service sets up seem a bit intrusive or surprising, even if they're helpful
17:37
but *wow* so much easier to set up.
17:40
alkisg: what do you think about an "ltsp do-all-the-default-things" subcommand that does "apt-get install dnsmasq nfs-kernel-server ... && ltsp dnsmasq && ltsp image / && ltsp ipxe && ltsp nfs && ltsp initrd"
17:41
it's a lot to type
17:41
"ltsp default-install" maybe
17:42
i had to switch back and forth between the browser and commandline several times and found that a minor annoyance
17:42
<alkisg>
(me is a bit afk, will be here in 10 mins or so)
17:42
<vagrantc>
or maybe an "ltsp quickstart" which outputs the above lines that you could cut-and-paste
17:42
and ajust for your taste
17:43
adjust
17:48
alkisg: i don't seem to have push rights or the ability to accept pull requests, even though i'm a member
17:50
<alkisg>
Back
17:51
(08:34:39 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: still find it a little weird that there are binaries downloaded at runtime with "ltsp ipxe" ... i assume there was a reason that the packages weren't used => there are no debian packages that ship those
17:51
If we file a bug and they get available via debian, of course we can use those
17:51
<vagrantc>
ah, that would be much better
17:51
<alkisg>
(08:37:16 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: some of the things the ltsp service sets up seem a bit intrusive or surprising, even if they're helpful => you mean nat on the server?
17:51
Many of those are client-side only
17:51
I think the server parts are only nat and flow control
17:52
And they do need explicit things from the sysadmin
17:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah ... it's not immediately clear what gets enabled and disabled by default (or if it's even possible to opt-out(
17:52
)
17:52
<alkisg>
(08:40:35 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: what do you think about an "ltsp do-all-the-default-things" subcommand that does "apt-get install dnsmasq nfs-kernel-server ... && ltsp dnsmasq && ltsp image / && ltsp ipxe && ltsp nfs && ltsp initrd" ==> I'm not so sure about installing packages from the ltsp code; but for the other parts, sure
17:53
We can surely provide an ltsp-server metapackage if you think those defaults are fine
17:54
<vagrantc>
so it comes down to weather to take over the ltsp-server package or not ... then there's the upgrade path issue
17:56
<alkisg>
(08:48:15 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: i don't seem to have push rights or the ability to accept pull requests, even though i'm a member => as a quick remedy, I appointed you as a "maintainer" in the ltsp repository, which says gives you the ability to push, do pull requests, and manage some repository settings
17:56
I'll read more about members, teams etc in the future
17:56
<vagrantc>
yay
17:56
and pushed
17:58
alkisg: the debhelper maintainer said rules-requires-root should just issue a warning, so hopefully that doesn't cause you too much trouble. if it does, just revert it like you said
17:59
<alkisg>
Great, will do
17:59
I think I'll implement an "ltsp session" hook
17:59
When enabled, it would change all /usr/share/xsessions, so that they have "ltsp session -- mate-session whatever"
17:59
So that people can more easily cleanup home directories, implement xfreerdp or whatever
17:59
And then upload 19.10
18:00
(or if you already have uploaded 19.10, then 19.10.1)
18:00
<vagrantc>
haven't touched yet
18:01
alkisg: what about the other merge request?
18:01
alkisg: it's cleaner in the code, only downside is it leaves an extra copy of the same ltsp.service file in /usr/share
18:02
alkisg: could remove the /usr/share copy and symlink to the systemd one if you really couldn't stand two copies of the same file :)
18:02
<alkisg>
That doesn't bother me; but I think that older debhelpers didn't do anything with .service files, so I "installed" them by hand
18:02
<vagrantc>
ah.
18:02
<alkisg>
Do push it, and again I'll apply a workaround if needed
18:02
I think that if jessie adds the bionic repository, it works; so that just leaves xenial, which I think handles .service files
18:02
<vagrantc>
it would have to be earlier than debhelper 9, since you set the compat level, unless there's a bug in debhelper
18:02
<alkisg>
So go ahead and push things, and I'll adjust whatever needed, if needed
18:04
<vagrantc>
ok
18:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: for the more fun stuff, try booting ubuntu-live.iso or debian-live.iso in ltsp mode; so that it automatically finds and uses filesystem.squashfs from the .iso, but still gives pam/sshfs or nfs from the server :D
18:06
Testing ltsp was never easier!
18:06
<vagrantc>
yes, that's amazing work! :)
18:07
so you do ltsp image debian-live.iso ?
18:07
<alkisg>
move or bind-mount debian-live.iso to /srv/ltsp/images/name.img
18:07
Then ltsp kernel name.img, and ltsp -o ipxe
18:07
No need for ltsp image, so it only needs 2 secs
18:08
Btw if noone objects, I'll make -o the default
18:08
So overwrite will be the default, with the possibility to opt out
18:09
As we expect /etc/ltsp/dnsmasq.conf or ltsp.ipxe to NOT have user contributed data
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18:11
<vagrantc>
seems reasonable
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21:58
<Leolo_2>
so I'm setting up LTSP fat clients on CentOS 6 (I know, I know)
21:58
LDM is working, ldm login works, launches xfce4. but the user's home dir isn't mounted
21:59
I was under the impression that it should be mounted with sshfs
22:00
<vagrantc>
would be really interesting to see ltsp19 on another distro
22:02
<Leolo_2>
I will admit to also using an old version of ltsp
22:02
5.4 it seems
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22:04
<Leolo_2>
where is the user's home dir supposed to be mounted?
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22:07
<Leolo_2>
I see X10-delayed-mounter but that doesn't seem to be for HOME
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22:25
<Leolo_2>
looks like it should be happening in X01-localapps
22:35
aha, I found the problem : stat -c %m doesn't work on centos 6 :-)
22:59
woot, now it works
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