IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 December 2010   (all times are UTC)

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04:36
<nelson_>
hi all, i have a problem setting up italc client in al ltsp environment
04:36
ltsp works well, but i can't figure out how to start ica on clients
04:37
<alkisg>
distro/version?
04:38
<nelson_>
ubuntu lucid
04:39
ltsp5 - italc 1.0.12
04:39
<alkisg>
How did you install italc?
04:39
<nelson_>
i install italc on the server
04:39
<alkisg>
OK, did you logoff both on the server and the clients?
04:40
The teacher needs to be in the "admin" group to be able to control the clients. And both teacher + students need to logoff after installing italc-master
04:41
<nelson_>
the teacher is in admin group
04:42
<alkisg>
(12:41:00 PM) alkisg: OK, did you logoff both on the server and the clients?
04:43
<nelson_>
ehm, now i do it
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05:21
<nelson_>
i notice that i receive this segfault in ica (italc client connection daemon) kernel: [ 382.357379] ica[6218]: segfault at 18 ip 00007f1f47607cec sp 00007ffffefbb670 error 4 in libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.2000.1[7f1f4754a000+417000]
05:27
<alkisg>
italc has many stability problems
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05:27
<alkisg>
In some of my labs it was working, in others it was crashing after a few minutes, in others it couldn't even start
05:27
So I stopped using it :)
05:28
<nelson_>
:)
05:28
and do you use some other software as a substitute, alkisg ?
05:29
<alkisg>
I developed one of my own, but it's too suited to our local needs, not ready for broad use
05:29
<nelson_>
:)
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06:29
<muppis>
This is just freak.. I booted my workstation as ltsp client to vm server.
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09:34
<arvin_>
Hi guys, I chrooted into /opt/ltsp/<arch>/ and created a new user, but I can't seem to be able to log on to tty on the clients. How can I enter a tty?
09:35
<alkisg>
Don't create users on the chroot, they're not needed
09:35
To get a user tty, try this:
09:35
!localxterm
09:35
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
09:35
<alkisg>
To get a root tty, this:
09:35
!SCREEN_02
09:35
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "SCREEN_02" :: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
09:36
<arvin_>
That's exactly what I need. :)
09:36
Thanks alkisg!
09:38
No wonder I couldn't find any information regarding user creation in LTSP...
09:39
So the soundcard was installed.
09:40
Now to see why rdesktop doesn't play sounds...
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10:15
<alkisg>
How does this GUI look for configuring the clients, with something like a new lts.conf? http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=130256
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10:17
<muppis>
alkisg, looks suitable.
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10:17
<alkisg>
Good, I'll send a mail to the devs list
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13:04
<alkisg>
stgraber: ping?
13:04
Got a few minutes?
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15:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: pong
15:14
<alkisg>
Hey man
15:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: I'm kind of around, still at the office but not really working anymore :)
15:14
alkisg: hey, how are things going ?
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15:15
<alkisg>
Nice... I had some free time on holidays so I came up with that bash/inetd daemon ;)
15:15
stgraber: so I was thinking... why not allow http requests from your server?
15:15
This way the client could get its config with a simple wget, even from the initramfs
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15:18
<stgraber>
it's certainly possible to make a plugin like the socket plugin to have the daemon listen on regular http as well, thought modifying the socket plugin might be a better solution as then you won't even need to use wget, nc should be enough
15:18
<alkisg>
Both are available with busybox so any of those would do
15:19
So this way, even if the client xmlrpc python daemon is not available/enabled, getltscfg could be substituted with a simple nc/wget
15:19
<stgraber>
right and the processing would be done server side instead of client side
15:20
<alkisg>
Right, and that's a good think imho because (a) the server knows more, (b) keeps the client simpler (no getltscfg executable in the initramfs), and (c) the server might not want to send the LDM_PASSWORD or other sensitive data to another client
15:20
<stgraber>
the current ltscfg plugin is basically a plugin for ltsp-agent which runs on the thin client itself and gets a new "source" lts.conf every 30s, parse it and then generate a .sh script on-disk that can be sourced instead of using getltscfg.
15:21
<alkisg>
That can be done on the server, saving the client from processing it itself. And the server can do better caching as it knows better when things have changed...
15:21
So I think the ltscfg plugin should move to the server
15:22
And later maybe a new plugin could be written that would allow the sysadmin to send vars based on simple rules
15:22
<stgraber>
well, for ltsp-cluster it'll still make sense of having the logic on the thin client as we want to support multiple sources for lts.conf (with inheriting) and stuff like overidding with a lts.conf on a usb stick, but we can clearly make the logic common and have it on both side
15:22
still making sure the code fallbacks properly if the agent isn't there
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15:22
<alkisg>
Why not override with simple shell scripts instead of lts.conf?
15:23
They also can do inheritance and can reside on usb sticks...
15:23
This way the client can be really simple
15:25
<stgraber>
it's possible to do it this way, though we very likely will stick with the daemon on the thin clients as it'll be there anyway for ltsp-cluster but will be optional for non-cluster deployments. The caching and asyncronous update + having the processing done on the thin client is things we need to keep the load down on the servers
15:25
<markit>
alkisg: hi, how are you? (I'm going to bed in some minutes time)
15:26
<alkisg>
Hi markit
15:26
<stgraber>
but I agree having the parsing done server-side for regular LTSP is probably a good idea and we should make sure we have the common parts in a separate module that both implementation use, so we reduce code duplicaton and make it easier to change logic upstream
15:27
<alkisg>
Right. If you like, and if others agree, I'd suggest making my idea the "base ltsp-fallback" one, and yours the additional bit that -cluster needs...
15:27
<vagrantc>
processing should be done wherever the admin wants it to be done
15:28
<stgraber>
vagrantc: having it done on the thin client will be a simple matter of having ltsp-agent start at boot time, so it should be good enough for everyone
15:28
<alkisg>
Processing = 0.001 msec for simple script sourcing... I don't think it matters for CPU, and chroot/ltsp_config.d will still be there...
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15:31
<alkisg>
But right now, the admin *can't* choose to do the processing on the server
15:32
<vagrantc>
sure they can
15:32
ltsp_config.d
15:32
<alkisg>
?
15:32
That's on the chroot
15:32
<vagrantc>
and in the chroot they can put something that queries the server
15:32
<alkisg>
And then write a daemon
15:32
That's not a sysadmin task :)
15:33
<vagrantc>
they can still choose to do it :P
15:33
<alkisg>
What are the downsides of providing a bash/inetd daemon for lts.conf?
15:33
<vagrantc>
a service running server-side that needs to do input validation
15:34
it may cause load on the server, depending on what sorts of hooks are used, which may be an issue for an overloaded server
15:35
<alkisg>
So if the sysadmin writes his own daemon and makes bad hooks, it's ok, but if he writes bad hooks on a daemon that we offer to him, it isn't ok?
15:36
<vagrantc>
it's just a consideration, not an end-all-be-all
15:36
<alkisg>
I think in 99% of the cases the sysadmin will use simple rules
15:37
In the 1% of the cases where the sysadmin wants to do something fancy, he should be able to do something fancy and not break everything... :)
15:37
If that's considered a problem, we can prevent scripts and only allow rules
15:37
They'll still be much more powerful than the current mac/ip maching...
15:38
But many programs allow script hooks, even udhcpc...
15:39
<vagrantc>
don't get all worked up over it :)
15:39
<alkisg>
OK :)
15:39
Just trying to see if you guys want it because now I have some free time to finish it
15:40
<knipwim>
i can see how administrators with a large number of client could benefit from it
15:40
<vagrantc>
my bigger concern is securely handling the input, since that's a common security issue
15:41
<alkisg>
Security from reading /etc? Didn't you say that's not LTSP's problem?
15:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no, from the input passed via inetd
15:41
the client's input
15:41
<alkisg>
That's only var=values
15:41
<knipwim>
alkisg: don't the clients send their specs in the lts.conf requesT?
15:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that's the theory, but i suspect there may be ways to exploit it
15:42
<alkisg>
We can either (a) sign it with the server ssh key or something, or (b) not eval it, just parse it and export it
15:42
knipwim: right
15:42
How much harm can env vars do? They get those currently with lts.conf...
15:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if a client sends ;/bin/sh for a variable setting
15:43
<alkisg>
IFS='='
15:43
while read var value; do
15:43
<vagrantc>
ok, a client sends =/bin/sh
15:43
<alkisg>
$var="$value"
15:43
That can't execute anything...
15:44
No matter what the client sends, if eval is not used, no execution happens
15:44
(or the server)
15:47
And the server only accepts specific vars in a case statement, so the client can't send arbitrary vars like PATH..
15:48
case mac) mac="$value"
15:48
<vagrantc>
sounds reasonably safe
15:48
still makes me nervous
15:49
<alkisg>
:)
15:49
Well, if the sysadmin does "eval something=$mac", then that can be exploited
15:50
But we can even check for specific patterns in each accepted var so that idiot sysadmin that uses eval can still use it safely...
15:51
<knipwim>
there should be more generic checks against idiotic sysadmins :)
15:51
<alkisg>
Or we can disallow bash scripts and only allow rules + vars setting
15:52
<vagrantc>
not sure to what great lengths we should go to prevent people from shooting themselves in the foot
15:52
just as long as we're not handing them something stupid
15:53* alkisg will check each var we get from the client for a specific pattern, e.g. "arch"=[letter|digit]*, "ram"=[digit]*, etc
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15:55
<alkisg>
Well the question remains, if we want that as the base ltsp configuration system, and stgraber can add the python daemon for ltsp-cluster setups
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