IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 November 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<johnny>
whenever i read kernel hacker/video driver hacker blogs.. i am amazed..
00:00
crazy .. they are
00:00
in a good way
00:02
<sbalneav>
Nice, just got most of the ldm parameters moved out of the LTSPManual.xml, and moved into lts.conf.xml
00:03
Gonna push up my changes and a new .html and pdf and head to bed.
00:08
<johnny>
thanks for yoru work scott
00:08
pretty amazing stuff
00:08
don't let the haters get you down :)
00:11
<sbalneav>
Done.
00:11
I'm heading to bed
00:11
To sleep, perchance to dream.
00:11
See you all tomorrow.
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07:20
<lyxan>
I'm rather new to ltsp, but I have a debian box running ltsp, and when I boot my PXE Client, everything seems to boot fine, but if I boot into X, my keyboard doesnt work, I presume this is an lts.conf issue, but googling has yet to get me any decent results.. anyone have the know how on this?
07:24
<Appiah>
hmm
07:24
heard about problems with the mouse
07:24
but not keyboard
07:25
dunno if setting XKBMODEL XKBLAYOUT and such in lts.conf will help
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07:30
<lyxan>
it's strange, cause if boot into shell mode, login, and do startx.. everything works :-\
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07:56
<lyxan>
alright
07:56
figured that out
07:56
just re-installed gdm
07:56
and all works fine now
07:56
cept now.. I can't login with anything
07:56
even though there is an /etc/passwd entry
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08:48
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:48
lyxan: You might want to check out the docs:
08:48
!doco
08:48
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
08:48
<sbalneav>
there's a debian section for installation
08:53
<lyxan>
sbalneav, Thanks
08:53
sbalneav, yeah.. I was following that
08:53
@ debian install guide
08:53
but it was very quick, and ..not very detailed
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08:54
<sbalneav>
lyxan: care to help improve it? :)
08:58
<lyxan>
not sure if I'm really the best canidate
08:58
I'm actually more of a gentoo person, debian was just what I had sitting on a dl 320 downstairs, so it's what I used.
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09:00
<jammcq>
Good morning #ltsp
09:00
<lyxan>
good morning
09:00
sbalneav, I wouldn't mind helping though
09:03
<sbalneav>
Morning jammcq!!
09:04
lyxan: If you'd like to help, we use launchpad to host our upstream stuff, you can check out a copy of the docs with bzr get lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
09:05
you could either send me patches, or post a branch on launchpad I could merge from.
09:05
either way's fine.
09:05
<lyxan>
cool :)
09:10
<jammcq>
sbalneav: those docs are looking very nice
09:11
<sbalneav>
Well, the big thing I'm doing now is rationalizing between the LTSPManual.xml, and lts.conf.xml
09:11
<jammcq>
rationalizing or reconciling ?
09:11
<sbalneav>
We've got stuff documented in both places, so now that I've modified the toolchain so I can do includes...
09:11
<ogra>
jammcq, once its done we should publish a book ... then we could pay scotties UDS attendance next time :)
09:12
<jammcq>
did you figure out the A4 issue?
09:12
ogra: sure, i'm all for that
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09:12
<sbalneav>
I'm moving all the docs concerning lts.conf into the lts.conf.xml file, and then they get <xi:include ..>'d into LTSPManual.
09:13
<ogra>
hmm, no vagrantc yet
09:13
<alkisg>
Hi all, does anyone know of an Virtual-Console-Memory-to-HTML-Converter? Like this (http://www.nu2.nu/scr2htm/) but for Linux? (Ok, this has nothing to do with LTSP except it's for writing an LTSP manual... :D)
09:13* ogra would like some advice for ltsp on ARMs
09:13
<Q-FUNK>
evidently vagrancy is to blame ;)
09:13
<jammcq>
sbalneav: hey, anybody from the canadian govt call you about your passport yet?
09:13
<sbalneav>
jammcq: I think so, I added some options to the dblatex build. It still SAYS a4 when you go into evinces document info, but it's definitely on letter now.
09:13
no :)
09:13* jammcq is just wondering if he's poked the right people to make things happen
09:13
<Q-FUNK>
sbalneav: what's with the passport? delayed?
09:14* jammcq might just need to go higher up in the food chain in ottawa
09:14
<jammcq>
Q-FUNK: just a timing issue on an expired passport
09:15
<Q-FUNK>
ah
09:15
<sbalneav>
There was a faint hope I might be able to come down to the uds, but I'm pretty much resigned to sitting this one out. Between waiting for the passport, and the amount of work around here to do... it's not good timing
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09:15
<jammcq>
sbalneav: you need a passport to FLY into the US. but driving is a whole different set of rules. no passport requirement until June 2009
09:16
want me to swing by and pick you up?
09:16
<sbalneav>
lol
09:16
<jammcq>
we did 2000 miles easily enough. UDS would be more like 6,000 roundtrip
09:16
<Q-FUNK>
it gets worse all the time. last time I needed to renew my passport, it almost didn't go thru, because I lacked some birthproof from the population registry of QC.
09:17
<sbalneav>
Nah, really, I've still got hardy upgrades here to do, and a laptop project that's way behind schedule. I'll join you guys via irc.
09:17
<jammcq>
well, if you aren't going, neither am i
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09:17
<sbalneav>
I thought you and marlon were going to go anyway?
09:18
<jammcq>
not without our favorite canadian
09:18
<sbalneav>
phht
09:18
<jammcq>
ok, 2nd favorite (right behind celine dion)
09:18
<Q-FUNK>
in the end, my dad had to zip by their office. once he got there, the guy hesitated and then said
09:18
"what the heck, he DOES seem to be your son. there you go. btw, starting next month, I wouldn't have been able to give it to anyone but the individual himself." -"nice to know. what if he lives abroad and has cut all ties to .CA?" -" then he would be fucked."
09:19
<sbalneav>
brb, workping...
09:19
<lyxan>
mm
09:21
<Q-FUNK>
I basically came this close to never be able to get another passport ever again. if my dad had bropped by their office just 2 weeks later, I would have had to request a temporary passport, paid a fortune to fly myself into montreal and do all the paperwork on-site in person.
09:23
and even then, it wasn't exactly clear whether I could have gotten a temporary one, given how I no longer have any valid piece of .CA ID with me
09:27
the whole thing seems to be rigged to force people to retain ties with the country at all costs.
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09:33
<rjune_>
Q-FUNK: where you at now?
09:37
<Q-FUNK>
.fi
09:37
.fi.eu
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09:42
<Q-FUNK>
I've been here for almost 11 years
09:43
<ogra>
in #ltsp ?
09:43
:)
09:43
<jammcq>
longer than me
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09:44
<ogra>
heh
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09:48
<Q-FUNK>
heh
09:50
terminal wars - episode 5 - the bazar strikes back
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09:55
<rjune_>
jammcq: you're a slacker apparantly
09:55
ogra: sent off cv
09:56
<ogra>
ah, finally :)
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09:58
<rjune_>
A guy I work with did as well
09:59
He's probably more suited for the position then I am
09:59
<Q-FUNK>
which position?
09:59
some ubuntu position at canonical?
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10:05
<rjune_>
Q-FUNK: mobile developer
10:05
ogra: ^^ probably missed that
10:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
anyone in here familiar with kiwi? cyberorg's out atm :(
10:12
<ogra>
kiwi is cryptic
10:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
indeed :(
10:19
there used to be a one-click install on the kiwi web site that worked like a charm
10:19
unfortunately, it's now broken
10:19
<ogra>
and doesnt really help if you have to rconfigure anything
10:19
*re
10:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
yeah, well it doesn't work at all now
10:24
bawww I got it to boot, but no suse screens come up now
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10:52
<Gadi>
!opensuse
10:52
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "opensuse" is http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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10:52
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: ^^
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11:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
wat :)
11:15
it appears to be a video driver issue with the 1442.
11:15
using a thincan, it worked fine out-of-the-box
11:15
err 1422
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11:40
<LaserJock>
sbalneav: get my email?
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11:59
<sbalneav>
LaserJock: I'll check
11:59
I've done a lot of work.
11:59
toolchain's a bit different
12:07
<LaserJock>
sbalneav: I know :-)
12:08
sbalneav: the -debian branch should give you a decent package
12:08
<vagrantc>
i keep meaning to check out ltsp-docs-trunk ... there seem to be a few cut-and-paste mistakes that i've been meaning to fix
12:09
<LaserJock>
one thing I'm not positive on is the pdf and HTML files are put in /usr/share/doc/ltsp
12:09
normally we'd put them in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-docs as that's the name of the package
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12:09
<LaserJock>
vagrantc: you happen to know any Policy constraint on ^^ ?
12:09
<PCCB>
hi all
12:10
I am using LTSP 5 from Debian Etch and I made a small change on a Xorg conf so the terminal can start two screens
12:10
<vagrantc>
LaserJock: not off the top of my head ...
12:10
<PCCB>
I set the X_CONF to point out to this file and rebooted the terminal
12:11
<ogra>
vagrantc, does recent ltsp build on armel in debian
12:11
<PCCB>
it don't loaded the file
12:11
how I can start Xorg/LDM manually to test out my config file;;;
12:11
<vagrantc>
ogra: i haven't seen any buildd builds of it, but i think i've built it with qemu-system-arm
12:11
<ogra>
weird
12:12
<vagrantc>
ogra: experimental is a bit spotty with the buildd's
12:12* ogra wonders what makes it show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/jaunty_probs.html
12:12
<ogra>
but i guess i'll have to dig into it
12:12* ogra was hoping to get the magic reciepe from vagrantc :)
12:13
<vagrantc>
ogra: our debian dirs are very much forked at this point :(
12:13
<ogra>
s/forked/ubuntized/ :)
12:14
<vagrantc>
i dare say forked
12:14
<LaserJock>
ogra: that makes it sound like a fungus or something ;-)
12:16
<nubae>
vagrantc: my mistakes I take it :D But I read sbalneav has done a whole bunch of fixing and tweaking to the docs recently...
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12:23
<vagrantc>
ah, looks like sbalneav took care of the issues i was looking at
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12:35
<cdealer__>
hey
12:35
<PCCB>
how I can start LDM manually from a shell ?
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12:36
<vagrantc>
PCCB: this road leads to pain and suffering, but it is possible.
12:37
<PCCB>
in lenny, it works fine
12:38
but in etch, it don't read me conf file
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12:44
<cdealer__>
My clients cant login, the loginscreen appear but can access, have already done a ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-image, but nothing helps, Im using ltsp5 with ubuntu 7.10 ... If I remember right I had to put "-X" option in some ltsp file so the ssh could connect... anyone can help me on this ?
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12:44
<johnny>
cdealer__, just look in the /var/logs/ldm.log ..
12:46
<cdealer__>
johnny: its necessary to be on a client shell ?
12:48
<nubae>
hi johnny
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12:48
<vagrantc>
PCCB: what conf file?
12:48
<PCCB>
Xorg Conf
12:48
Debian (Etch) use XF86CONFIG_FILE and not X_CONF
12:49
as in Lenny
12:49
<vagrantc>
PCCB: so i'm a little unclear as to what the problem is?
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12:50
<cdealer__>
johnny: I remember that this version had a missing -X switch on some file used by ltsp to make the client ssh connection ... and if I remember was something inside udev but this Im just guessing
12:50
<PCCB>
Debian (etch) used the option XF86CONFIG_FILE to set Xorg Config file in lts.conf
12:51
Debian (Lenny) use the option X_CONF to set Xorg Config file in lts.conf
12:51
<vagrantc>
PCCB: what is the problem?
12:52
<PCCB>
the problem was that I was thinking that all Debian versions was using the same config options
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12:53
<cdealer__>
....
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12:54
<vagrantc>
PCCB: and do you understand now?
12:55
<ogra>
actually lenny uses both ;)
12:55
<vagrantc>
ogra: ssssh.
12:55
<ogra>
heh
12:55
<PCCB>
yes (I was reading ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup) scripts to discover this
12:58
<cdealer__>
please, a quick help on this... my cli]ents cant pass from the login scree
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13:04
<cdealer__>
okay
13:04
solved
13:04
port configuration on sshd_config, johnny: ldm.log helped =) thaks
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13:07
<jammcq>
hello all
13:08
<Lns>
hi jammcq
13:08
hi all
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13:49* _UsUrPeR_ shakes his fist at openSUSE
13:50
<ogra>
heh
13:50* ogra gave up with that when his wrist got sore
13:50* laga snort
13:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
yeah, I'm getting tired of wanking the suse gecko myself as well...
13:51* nubae coughs
13:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
oh wait... I mean... tired of using the mouse
13:51
....to enter commands
13:51* _UsUrPeR_ jumps out the window
13:52
<ogra>
heh
13:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
anyway, this is killing me. I do things in terminal, and they are immediately over-written
13:53
and I can't find out where I actually make permanent changes because the menu system was made by the Russian dude who made Tetris
13:53
If I wanted puzzles, I'd be playing sudoku :(
13:53* ogra recommends rosetta ... russian->english
13:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
:)
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14:27* Lns scoffs at GUI config overriding terminal config...isn't that bass-ackwards?
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14:33
<sbalneav>
Gentlemen
14:33
This is a momentus occasion.
14:33
<Lns>
sbalneav: Dianne... (obligitory family guy quote)
14:34
<sbalneav>
LTSP has, for the first time...
14:34
a full fledged ltsp.conf.5 manpage
14:34
<Lns>
sbalneav: !!! *applauds*
14:34
<sbalneav>
Check the doco page.
14:34
<vagrantc>
oh noe!
14:34
<sbalneav>
PLUS!
14:34
<vagrantc>
it's called lts.conf!
14:34
<Lns>
lol
14:34
<sbalneav>
sorry, lts.conf
14:34
<vagrantc>
:)
14:34* vagrantc figured
14:35
<sbalneav>
plus, all the sections in the xml source file are included by reference into the LTSPManual.xml file
14:35
<Lns>
very nice!
14:36
<sbalneav>
so, if we add or remove a variable, all we need to do is update lts.conf.xml, and the LTSPManual gets updated automatically.
14:36
<Lns>
sbalneav: that was quick work!
14:36
<sbalneav>
I've spent 3 *&&^% days on this one thing alone.
14:36
<Eghie>
!doco
14:36
<sbalneav>
but it's finally done.
14:36
<ltspbot>
Eghie: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
14:36
<vagrantc>
rockin,
14:36
.
14:36* Lns gets sbalneav a beer
14:37
<Eghie>
that is very cool indeed
14:39
<Lns>
sbalneav: is it fair to assume that this new lts.conf manpage has every possible variable, and not just a subset (like in earlier revisions of the manual/other sources) ?
14:40* vagrantc will make sure to add new secret options
14:40
<vagrantc>
i just added a round of LOCALDEV options, for example
14:42
<ogra>
DONT YOU TELL US !
14:42
now they are not really secret anymore
14:42
<vagrantc>
oh, right.
14:42
<ogra>
and the channel is logged
14:42* vagrantc adds a layer of misdirection
14:43
<vagrantc>
those we're the *real* secret options, you see.
14:43
<_UsUrPeR_>
anyone have a quick bash command that will output ONLY the ip address of eth0?
14:44
<sbalneav>
Lns: No, it's not fair to assume anything at this point.
14:44
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i wonder if we can have some sort of "introduced in version" sort of flag with the manual ...
14:44
<sbalneav>
What I'd do is ask ALL LTSP DEVELOPERS to have a look, and if anything's missing, invalid, or wrong, PLEASE TELL ME.
14:44
<Lns>
vagrantc: was just wondering about that
14:44
<vagrantc>
i.e. SOME_OPTION_FOO introduced in ldm 2.0.12
14:45
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: bzr checkout ldm-docs-trunk, and start addin 'em :)
14:45
<Lns>
It'd be nice if some options are specific to certain versions..of course i guess the manpage would reflect whatever is installed on the system, right?
14:45
<sbalneav>
Lns: no
14:45
it's one man page.
14:45
<Lns>
ok
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14:45
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: well, i don't know where it should be added, if it should always be included in the generated output, etc.
14:46
and do we document only released versions?
14:46
or have ldm-trunk revision #
14:46
<Lns>
sbalneav: "This file gets parsed when ltsp-server starts up." This might be a bit misleading.. can it be reworded to "This file gets parsed when ltsp clients start up." ?
14:47
<sbalneav>
Lns: dude, send patches
14:47* Lns needs to learn how to :(
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14:49
<Lns>
sbalneav: besides, you told us to tell you. ;) Of course i'm not a dev...heh
14:49
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, /sbin/ip -o -f inet addr show | grep eth0 |sed -e 's,.* \(.*\)/.*,\1,'
14:49
(in case you didnt get one yet)
14:49
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: ifconfig eth0|grep 'inet addr'|sed -e 's/^.*inet addr:\([0-9.]*\) .*$/\1/'
14:49
lol
14:49
<ogra>
first !
14:49
:)
14:49
<Gadi>
:P
14:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
:D
14:51
thank you both
14:52DonSilver has quit IRC
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15:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, so I am executing a command that uses the client's own IP address, but in order to use ifconfig, you have to be root
15:02
how do I bypass this? It's for a single command :(
15:02randra has joined #ltsp
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15:03
<ogra>
huh ?
15:03
why do you need to be root to run ifconfig ?
15:04
did you try my line above ?
15:04
it doesnt use ifconfig
15:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
not yet :)
15:05* _UsUrPeR_ had tried his own thing using ifconfig and cut. It, indeed, does not work :(
15:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
I'm using yours now :)
15:07
<sbalneav>
Lns: ok, I see it, I'll fix it.
15:08
<Lns>
sbalneav: ok...I'm trying to wrap my non-coder head around patches, too. Any noobie patch howto URLs welcome =)
15:09
Does anyone know the status on the LDM numlock enable thing? I saw in the irc logs a big conversation the other day about it..just wanted to update one of my curious techs.
15:13
nm, think i found the patch.
15:15alkisg has quit IRC
15:17
<sbalneav>
Lns: pushed
15:18
If people could email me a lit of things so I can fix them, that'd be great
15:25spectra has quit IRC
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15:38
<vagrantc>
Gadi: ok, so we got LOCALDEV_DENY in ltspfs-trunk ... still want gphotofs, cdfs ... anything else?
15:42
<Gadi>
yeah- to make a call to local ltspfsmounter when present
15:42
which is a mod to udev script and cdpinger
15:42
<vagrantc>
hm.
15:43
<Gadi>
and a mod to ltspfsmounter
15:43
;)
15:44
<ogra>
huh ? why ltspfsmounter ?
15:44* vagrantc suspects Gadi's crazy mount ltspfs locally and export to rdesktop
15:44
<ogra>
shudder
15:44
<Gadi>
and local apps
15:44
so we dont go over the network twice
15:45* Gadi feels like he has had this conversation a zillion times :)
15:45Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:45
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: code works great. thanks again
15:46
<vagrantc>
Gadi: seems like cdfs doesn't build with 2.6.26 kernels ...
15:46
<ogra>
Gadi, i dont doubt that, but i dont see a reason to poke code into three areas
15:46alekibango has quit IRC
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15:46
<Gadi>
poke code?
15:46
<ogra>
if udev doesnt fire why does ltspfsmounter need ot be touched
15:47
just make sure the udev rules dont fire
15:47
<Gadi>
?
15:47
I am so confused
15:47
<ogra>
you want to prevent certain devices from mounting, right ?
15:47
<Gadi>
no - we did that already
15:47
that was LOCALDEV_DENY
15:47
<ogra>
what is LOCALDEV_DENY then ?
15:48
<Gadi>
that was it
15:48
its implemented
15:48
done
15:48
<ogra>
and why the heck do you need to tweak that in ltspfsmounter ?
15:48
<Gadi>
the local ltspfsmounter was for rdesktop and local apps
15:48
<ogra>
still
15:48
<Gadi>
so we have a local automounter
15:48
<ogra>
still
15:49
there is only one script that needs a tweak ... why do you touch the backend *and* the frontend
15:49
<Gadi>
just want to tweak it so it doesnt put everything in /media/root/<device>
15:49
<ogra>
it wont
15:49
else teher is a bug in ltspfs
15:49
<Gadi>
ltspfsmounter mounts in /media/$USER/<device>
15:50
<ogra>
no, it doesnt if the udev script doesnt tell it to
15:50
<Gadi>
unless I am wrong, we run ldm as root
15:51* ogra desnt really get the reason to deny something in ltspfsmounter
15:52DonSilver is now known as K_O-Gnom
15:52
<Gadi>
we're not denying anything there
15:52
<ogra>
??
15:52
<Gadi>
two separate issues
15:52
<ogra>
Gadi: ok, so we got LOCALDEV_DENY in ltspfs-trunk ... still want gphotofs, cdfs ... anything else?
15:52
<Gadi> yeah- to make a call to local ltspfsmounter when present
15:52
<Gadi>
right - we are listing features
15:52
not implementations
15:52
gphotofs doesnt deny anything either ;)
15:53
<ogra>
so LOCALDEV_DENY is only a tweak to the udev scripts ?
15:53
<Gadi>
yes
15:53
<ogra>
aaah!
15:53
<Gadi>
and it is pushed already
15:53
:)
15:53
<ogra>
then i totally misunderstood
15:53* Gadi nods
15:53
<ogra>
sorry :)
15:53
<Gadi>
np
15:53* Gadi passes ogra a beer and a remote
15:53
<ogra>
got both already
15:54
15h armel build failure fixes today for me
15:54
but beagleboard.org thin clients at the horizon make it worth the work :)
15:55* Gadi shovel coal into the engine of the Ogra ARM Express
15:55
<ogra>
heh
15:56* Gadi can't wait for ogra to find out why he didn't want lts.conf in .../i386...
15:56
<Gadi>
:D
15:56
<ogra>
:P
15:56bobby_C has quit IRC
15:56
<ogra>
yeah, probably time to develop a fix :)
15:57
i'll get to that once i have a working arm client :)
15:57
<Gadi>
*sigh* - If only Woody Woodpecker would have gone to the police.... none of this would have ever happened....
15:57
<ogra>
0.2W are so cool :)
15:57six2one has quit IRC
15:57
<ogra>
1080p DVI displays as well :)
15:58
<Gadi>
:)
15:58
can't wait
15:58
makes a nice Symbio thin client
15:58
<ogra>
these devices are so far beyond every x86
15:58
well http://beagleboard.org/
15:59
<Gadi>
yeah - its sad when your Wii starts looking like the best computer you ever owned
15:59
<ogra>
heh
15:59
wait for the netbooks to come :)
15:59
<Gadi>
dude - I am so happy with my eeepc
15:59
I cant wait for more
15:59
:)
15:59
<dberkholz>
i just ordered a 10" eee
16:00
it's showing up tomorrow
16:00
<Gadi>
especially with the eeepc kernel
16:00
<ogra>
how long does it last with one battery charde ?
16:00
<Gadi>
its nice
16:00
<ogra>
*charge
16:00
<Gadi>
spec is 8hours on my 901
16:00
<ogra>
haha
16:00
<Gadi>
prolly about 6 with normal usage
16:00
<ogra>
imagine 8 days
16:00
<Gadi>
yeah
16:00
<ogra>
with more speed
16:00
<Gadi>
awesome
16:00
<ogra>
and cheaper
16:01
<Gadi>
cant imagine Vista compiled for the ARM
16:01
<ogra>
wont happen
16:01* Gadi wonders if the manu can get enough business with Linux
16:01
<ogra>
if MS gets it they might do Win7
16:01
but you wont see vista
16:01
<Gadi>
right
16:02
which means it may be a while before you see good availability of product
16:02
<ogra>
not necessarily
16:02
there is an initiative for dual arch laptops at many manufacturers
16:03
yu can switch between x86 and arm
16:03
on the fly
16:03
<Gadi>
sounds bizarre
16:03
<ogra>
it is (a bit) ...
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16:11* vagrantc wonders what ogra thinks is truely bizarre if dual-architecture on-the-fly switching is only "a bit"
16:11
<jammcq>
dual-arch isn't exactly new
16:12
<vagrantc>
arm/x86 hybrids?
16:12
<jammcq>
there's a card for the old Apples that lets you run x86 code on a motorola mac
16:12
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i'm not in a good position to test gphotofs, as i don't have a gphotofs camera ...
16:12
<jammcq>
and back in the 80's, there was a 370 card for ibm pc's that let them run mainframe code
16:12
<vagrantc>
Gadi: and cdfs is borked in debian lenny
16:13
<Gadi>
ok, so nix cdfs
16:13
lets look for something better
16:13
<vagrantc>
jammcq: sure... but this sounds to be implemented differently
16:14
<jammcq>
but at this point, they're just talking about it, so who knows how it's gonna be implemented
16:14
<vagrantc>
indeed
16:14
<jammcq>
or even IF it's gonna be implemented
16:16
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i'll upgrade the bug on cdfs-src so that it'll either get removed from lenny or fixed
16:17
<ogra>
vagrantc, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2560585344.html
16:17Q-FUNK has quit IRC
16:18* Gadi likes the name
16:18
<Gadi>
finally, a dell model name that makes sense
16:18* Gadi thinks they are learning
16:18
<Gadi>
ogra: does that ARM board have BIOS?
16:19
<ogra>
i havet seen one yet, no idea
16:19
<Gadi>
oh
16:19
I thought you had begun playing
16:19* Gadi doesnt think ARM boards have BIOS
16:19* Gadi wonders if they implement PXE
16:19
<jammcq>
so it's not really switching on the fly. It's really 2 computers in one
16:19
<ogra>
they use the uboot :)
16:20
which sbalneav will love :)
16:20
uboot has netbooting capabilities ...
16:21
usually in arm you have the kernel sitting in a tiny flash in the HW anyway
16:21
that makes i.e. wlan clients very easy :)
16:21
you also rarely have HW that changes which gets us a lot of monolithic stuff back into the kernel
16:22
<Gadi>
heh - cant wait to see "wlan" "client" and "easy" merged into a sentence
16:22
<ogra>
since you need to compile one image per supported board
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16:22
<ogra>
so you can as well compile in all drivers needed
16:22
since the board wont change HW
16:22
which indeed includes the wlan driver
16:23
all you need is the wlan setup/tools in intramfs
16:23
makes it quite easy
16:25
<jammcq>
sounds very nice
16:25
<sbalneav>
Okiedoke people. I'll be on later tonight, doing more doc cleanup, but dont expect to see me active during the day for the next 2 days; I've basically spent all my time at work since Monday getting the manual rationalized, and I'm like, waaaaay behind.
16:26
I'll still be there in the evenings, tho'
16:26
<jammcq>
cool
16:26
<sbalneav>
See you all later tonight.
16:30selffik has quit IRC
16:31
<Lns>
bye sbalneav thank you again =)
16:33
ogra: holy crap, 0.2W ?? Are those boards capable of running as TCs with a full gnome UI and apps?
16:34
<ogra>
more :)
16:34
a 600MHz ARM is about equivalent to a 1.5GHz x86
16:35
the beagelboard is limited to 128M though
16:35
<Lns>
heh, so what! That's awesome!
16:35
What are they, pico-itx?
16:35
<ogra>
but not long and you will see devices with more ram for the same price
16:36
<Lns>
You could have a hamster in a wheel providing power to a fully loaded ltsp lab (minus server of course) =)
16:36
<ogra>
yeah
16:36
the awesome piece is the graphics HW
16:37
<Lns>
I see that - that's incredible spec. for such a small machine
16:37
<ogra>
full HD 1080p, DVI/HDMI ...
16:37
yep
16:37
<Lns>
man...i might need to order one of these just to show it off =p
16:38
<ogra>
they are nice desktop PCs if you run them with SDHC card and xfce
16:38
and you could drive it by solar power :)
16:40johnny has left #ltsp
16:40
<Lns>
this sounds like something that SolarNetOne might want to take a look at for their ltsp/solar project
16:40
<ogra>
yeah
16:40
though you still need extra power for the display
16:41
<Lns>
yeah, that's true. I was about to say, these things would probably be the easiest little things to embed into an LCD
16:49
I guess now that we have powerful, .2W computers, is to lower the power consumption of LCDs.
16:49
<jammcq>
well, at least OLPC has produced some good there
16:50
they've created some very low power screens
16:50
hopefully some of that technology will move to real screens
16:50
<ogra>
yeah, lets see if they end up in future netbooks
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18:02
<cliebow>
anyone playing with dell inspiron mini9?
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20:05
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, use /sbin/ifconfig, /sbin is not in user's path
20:06
and which config gets overwritten by GUI, if it does there is a bug
20:09
<sbalneav>
warren: ok, any thing more than "broken" you can give me?
20:10
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, and the GUI was designed by a German GSOC student :)
20:12
<warren>
sbalneav: https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12linux-devel-list/2008-November/msg00053.html
20:13
I have never actually used jetpipe before
20:17
<sbalneav>
Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything more than "broken"
20:18
So, at this point, not much I can do.
20:18
<warren>
sbalneav: isn't the only change to jetpipe recently the serial printer tihng?
20:18
<sbalneav>
That's right.
20:19
But Gadi's running it, and it's working for him.
20:19
I guess see if he can do some of the standard debugging, i.e. is it running, can he telnet to it, etc etc.
20:20
I can have a look at it again, Gadi made some changes after I helped him with it.
20:20
Really, it needs a proper restructuring.
20:21
actually, what it really needs is a C translation so it's nice and small and can be started nicely from udev
20:21
<warren>
from udev?
20:21
what would trigger iT?
20:21
<sbalneav>
presence of a printer port.
20:22
/dev/lp0 /dev/usb/lp0, etc.
20:22
serial it could be started manually
20:23
HAd a look at the manuals?
20:23
We've now got a (mostly) complete and correct manpage for lts.conf
20:23
<johnny>
replacing lts-parameters.txt?
20:24
<sbalneav>
Well, I'd like to see it do that eventually. I think most admins would be used to doing a "man lts.conf"
20:24
Most of the information should be synced up with l-p.txt
20:25
It's on the doco page
20:25
!doco
20:25
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
20:25
<johnny>
pick one.. drop the other :)
20:25
replace it with text that tells them to use man
20:25
<sbalneav>
Have a look, see what you think
20:26
the cool thing is, I've managed to coalesce all the lts.conf parameters into lts.conf.xml in the doc tree, and I simply <xi:include /> the relevent sections into LTSPManual as needed.
20:27
so, if we add a new variable to lts.conf.xml, the manual gets automatically updated as well.
20:27
It's grouped into rough sections: general, scripts, X, ldm, keyboard, mouse
20:28
within those sections, it's a jumble. I'm at two minds to either organize alphabetically or in oder of importance.
20:28
<johnny>
both?
20:29
<sbalneav>
Well, currently it's "random"
20:29
<johnny>
hehe
20:29
<sbalneav>
so anything's better
20:29
<johnny>
alpabetically by category
20:29
<sbalneav>
But for the LDM section, LDM_DIRECTX wouldn't come at the top, even though it's arguably the most important
20:30brendan0powers has joined #ltsp
20:30* sbalneav shrugs
20:30
<sbalneav>
I can analyse this to death I support
20:30
suppose
20:30
alphabetical within section's prolly the most sensible
20:31
Anywho, I'm sitting in a cafe at the moment waiting for my kid to come out of his music lesson, so I'll have to go soon.
20:31
But I'll be on again as soon as I get home.
20:31
<johnny>
sbalneav, well. you can always put a lil js in the html version to sort it in a different way :)
20:31
<sbalneav>
9:30 localtime or so.
20:32
Oh, jimminy. That's a bit beyond me.
20:32
I'm happy that I'm getting close to reasonably complete docs.
20:32
Oops kids here
20:32
I'm off
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21:13
<stgraber>
sbalneav: hey, I'm currently working on preparing the migration for everyone in our office to Intrepid and one of the things I was testing today was ldm and the session/language picking part. I remember we were discussing using .gdmrc a back ago, was there any progress on that ?
21:13
s/gdmrc/dmrc/
21:18
<johnny>
not that i heard of..
21:22
<sbalneav>
Back
21:22
<johnny>
this man would know :)
21:22
<stgraber>
sbalneav: ^
21:23
<sbalneav>
stgraber: No, I've not looked at it, but theoretically, all we'd need to do would be to write an rc script that greps the .dmrc, and sets LDM_SESSION accordingly
21:23
Hm
21:23
No, that wouldn't quite work
21:24
since setting an environment var in the rc.d wouldn't get propagated up to the parent env.
21:24
<stgraber>
sbalneav: except if we make the session open a rc.d script
21:25
sbalneav: so we source each of them, we could then change the environment in the rc.d scripts
21:27
<sbalneav>
Yeah, maybe
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23:00
<Ryan52>
sbalneav, stgraber: what are you talking about? the .dmrc is done on a per user basis...so it would have to happen after the user enters their password. so, how would the rc.d script be sourced from a c program? or am I missing something?
23:01* Ryan52 is probably just confused.
23:03johnny has quit IRC
23:03
<stgraber>
Ryan52: we are talking ldm rc.d
23:05
Ryan52: so in an ideal world (from my point of view), the user enters his login and password, then the SSH link is established and the ldm rc.d scripts are sourced one after the other. One of the first ones woul be to either load the .dmrc or save the user choice to the .dmrc, then executes some more rc scripts (localapps, ...) and finally the last rc script would be the session itself
23:06
so the script that reads/writes the .dmrc can change LC_ALL for all the following including the session that's started at the end
23:06
<Ryan52>
ya, ok.
23:06
<stgraber>
the current problem is that we can do a rc.d script that reads the .dmrc in the user directory but this one can't change the parent environment so it's just useless
23:07
or we need to put that in ldm itself (I'd prefer not to get and parse a .dmrc from the server in ldm itself :))
23:07
<Ryan52>
so, are the ldm rc.d scripts ran on the server or the thin client?
23:07
<sbalneav>
the thin client.
23:08
Ryan52: BTW, we have an lts.conf man page now.
23:08
<stgraber>
Ryan52: thin client but you can run anything you want on the server as you have the ssh socket
23:08
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: wrt to man page, in the documentation branch? or in ldm-trunk?
23:09
ok, I see.
23:09
<sbalneav>
in the documentation branch
23:09
lts.conf.xml
23:12
<Ryan52>
stgraber: why does it have to be a rc.d script? it could just be some script installed with ldm that outputs "LANGUAGE=blah\nSESSION=other_blah\n", then ldm could just look at that...I guess it's not the best, but...
23:13
<warren>
Ryan52: you can only read the user's .dmrc after login
23:14
<Ryan52>
warren: yes, I realize that, so?
23:14
I mean, ldm could run the script, and look at it's output.
23:14
or, just do all of it in c :p
23:16
<warren>
i might be missing something
23:17
I'm totally in favor of that.
23:19
<stgraber>
Ryan52: well, it'd need changing quite a few things to ldm to first authenticate, doing the LTSPROCKS thing, then if that worked, run another command getting or updating the .dmrc, then starting the session with the right parameters. Sounds easier to just move the session part to a rc.d script
23:19hanthana_ has quit IRC
23:20
<stgraber>
you can then do some other funny things like using ldm for login but not actually starting a X session, only a local xterm instead but with sshfs mounted and the ssh socket ready. I don't really have any use case for that yet but it may be useful :)
23:20hanthana has joined #ltsp
23:22
<stgraber>
anyway, it's late here, see you guys tomorrow
23:24
<sbalneav>
Night
23:27
!doco
23:28
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
23:29
<alkisg>
sbalneav, good job! :) Is it possible to also upload a formatted man page? Like e.g. http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?ssh+1
23:30
!lts.conf
23:30
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
23:30
<sbalneav>
alkisg: right click lts.conf.5, click "save link as..."
23:31
sudo cp lts.conf.5 /usr/share/man/man5
23:31
man lts.conf
23:31
formatted copy!!!
23:31
<alkisg>
sbalneav, not for personal use, to give users asking about lts.conf parameters something to read
23:31
<sbalneav>
No plans at the moment.
23:31
<alkisg>
Because http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf is a little outdated...
23:31
ok, ty!
23:32
<sbalneav>
but all the same params are in LTSPManual.pdf
23:32
in fact, I simply <xi:include> sections from lts.conf.xml into LTSPManual.xml
23:33
so if they look in the manual, it's the same as the manpage.
23:33
<alkisg>
OK... So I'll just point them to the .pdf then
23:33
<sbalneav>
yep.
23:33
or
23:33
tell them right click sudo cp etc :)
23:34
<alkisg>
Heh! It's great, I've been waiting for this "man lts.conf"!!! :D
23:35
I hope it's included in the next version of ltsp-server
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23:35
<sbalneav>
It'll probably end up as a standalone package.
23:36
ltsp-docs, or the like.
23:36
since I can't separate the LTSPManual and lts.conf xml files, since they depend on each other.
23:37
I also want to pull together a bunch of disparate notes, docs, protocol specs, etc. and create an
23:37
LTSPDeveloper.xml file
23:37
for new (and old) developers.
23:37
coding styles, bzr workflow, etc.
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23:38
<alkisg>
sbalneav, that would be great
23:39
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: that reminds me. do you still have the documentation for the new protocol of the Qt branch? I only got it through a pastie link, and now I lost that. if so, can you forward it to me?
23:43
<sbalneav>
I don't have it either
23:43
I never got it from chrisinajar :(
23:43
THATS one of the things I want to put in there.
23:45
<Ryan52>
okay, grepping through irc logs I found the pastebin of it...though I think we changed it a bit...the only change I remember is adding a guest command for teh client to send instead of "user @GUEST@". pastebin.com/f3dccbb76
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<sbalneav>
ok, snagged it.
23:48
Guys, i'm bushed.
23:49
I've done 3 solid days of doco.
23:49
going to bed.
23:49
night all
23:49
<Ryan52>
bye
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