IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 March 2014   (all times are UTC)

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06:03
<FrozenZia>
||cw: workingcats: alkisg: Thanks for the tips - pretty sure Alkis got it with the SSE issue, but will verify shortly. MAIN purpose for these terminals at first is running CodeClub training.
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07:58
<khildin>
Can anyone direct me on documentation where LTSP X session is explained. I would like to know how LTSP sessions are protected against a MITM (man-in-the-middle) attack...
07:58
<work_alkisg>
!docs
07:58
<ltsp>
docs: For the latest community documentation, see the LTSP wiki at http://wiki.ltsp.org/ For a PDF with official documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
07:59
<work_alkisg>
It's protected because it's inside an ssh tunnel
07:59
So you may as well read the ssh docs
07:59
<khildin>
thnx... that's what I wanted to hear,... :)
08:00
<work_alkisg>
Of course that's only the default, if you change it using LDM_DIRECTX, it's no longer encrypted
08:00
!directx
08:00
<ltsp>
directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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09:29
<FrozenZia>
work_alkisg: Ok, yeah, definitely have the SSE problem on that one client. You sent a link to a pkg already. If I'm running ltsp-pnp can I still install that to the i386 chroot (and how exactly? I know enuf to guess that dpkg command will be involved)
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09:47work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
09:48elias_a_ is now known as elias_a
09:48
<alkisg>
FrozenZia: install it to your server and run ltsp-update-image -c /, don't worry it doesn't affect your server
09:48
Nor your other clients
09:48
Clicking on the link should launch software-center, no need for dpkg...
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09:49
<FrozenZia>
alkisg: Ok, great!!
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10:09
<FrozenZia>
Had another issue but had to leave my workshop to go to class. Can't provide a *lot* of information but: I had created 8 students using newusers. So far had just been testing w/student001, but now I got a more modern client set up, tried student002. Student002 *seems* to get authenticated ok, but gets spit back out to login screen. =o(
10:10
Haven't tried to just login from the server (e.g.) as student002 to see if THAT works.
10:11
From looking at auth.log it would seem that the client sendsa disconnect request.
10:11
<alkisg>
Try selecting the xterm session from the ldm preferences menu
10:14
<FrozenZia>
I'm also getting lots of black screens w/text about plymouth failure before actually getting nice-looking GUIs, but I've just presumed this is "normal".
10:14
alkisg: tx, will try as soon as I can get back to the shop.
10:15
<alkisg>
Do you have 12.04 with the greek schools ppa?
10:16
<FrozenZia>
yes.
10:18
<alkisg>
Do you have proprietary graphics drivers installed on your server? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 3 VGA
10:20
<FrozenZia>
I don't *believe* so, but I'll have to verify later. At least I have at no point gone to additional drivers to activate any.
10:20
<alkisg>
They're automatically installed by the ubuntu desktop cd
10:21
<FrozenZia>
Ah.
10:21
And they... should be removed in this case?
10:21
<alkisg>
Right
10:22* alkisg wishes the ubuntu installer had a checkbox to notify users about that, and enable them to avoid it...
10:22
<alkisg>
But we'll probably try switch to debian, many ubuntu innovations are bad for schools, ltsp etc
10:24
<FrozenZia>
Is the removal just basically an apt-get remove for some number of pkgs?
10:25
<alkisg>
open a terminal and run `jockey-gtk`
10:25
I don't remember the menu it's in
10:25
It's the dialog for adding/removing proprietary drivers
10:25* FrozenZia has to get off the train... =o(
10:25
<FrozenZia>
Tx for ur help again, alkis!
10:25
<alkisg>
np
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10:44
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, switching to Debian?
10:44
<alkisg>
Well, most of the ubuntu innovations are for kids that like the effects... we don't need those in schools :)
10:45
On each release it's getting harder and harder to ...undo those innovations
10:46
E.g. they create unity, it doesn't work with ltsp, ok, we go for gnome-fallback, but the new panel indicator only works for unity...
10:46
<Hyperbyte>
I believe Warren had the same problem with Fedora.
10:46
<alkisg>
...so we don't have the old one that works, and the ubuntu devs don't care about fallback so they won't fix the new one
10:46
<Hyperbyte>
Fedora is even more bleeding edge technology than Ubuntu.
10:46
Ever considered going CentOS?
10:47
<alkisg>
They're upstream for many stuff, the problem with ubuntu is that they have a lot of patches for too many packages
10:47
More than they can maintain properly
10:47
I haven't really tried any rpm-based distros
10:48
Debian should be fine, after we spend a few weeks around some rough edges...
10:48
<Hyperbyte>
CentOS might be more suitable for you though, I think. They're really, really behind... but it's rock solid & stable...
10:48
And they release security updates for years to come.
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10:49
<alkisg>
Why would it be better than debian? Isn't that stable too?
10:50
<Hyperbyte>
You should look into it. :-) I'm using CentOS as host OS for all my virtual servers... Ubuntu 12.04 as terminal server OS though, because I really don't want to lag that far behind on my desktop. :)
10:50
<alkisg>
(and we've already packaged many many greek educatinal apps as .debs, made repositories etc, so it'll be hard to redo all this work for rpm)
10:50
<Hyperbyte>
Ah. :)
10:51
<alkisg>
Centos doesn't even support ltsp, does it?
10:51
<Hyperbyte>
Didn't Enslaver make it so it does? :)
10:52
<alkisg>
I don't see him around :)
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
There's LTSP-server packages in CentOS 6.4 repository. 5.4.5
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10:55
<alkisg>
No arm support... ok that's not too bad...
10:56
Supported for 10 years, haha, nice (joke)! :D
10:58
The following architectures are not supported by CentOS (as of version 6): x86 without Physical Address Extension (PAE) (as of CentOS 6)
10:58
...one blocker there...
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13:06
<Hyperbyte>
!ltsp-pnp
13:06
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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14:10
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, installation instructions are to install dnsmasq - do I need that?
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14:20
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: install it and disable its dhcp functionality if you don't want it
14:20
It also serves as a tftp and dns server
14:20
Of course you can also go with tftpd-hpa and isc-dhcpd...
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15:46
<FrozenZia>
Hmmm... back at the playground -- "< alkisg> Try selecting the xterm session from the ldm preferences menu"
15:47
...not a very good option -- I don't seem to have a choice.
15:48
My options are select backend, restart, shutdown. (If I'm understanding what alkis means by ldm pref. menu)
15:49
On my graphics issue, server says no proprietary drivers used.
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16:15
<alkisg_web>
FrozenZia: select session
16:16
<FrozenZia>
alkisg_web: U mean on the client, right?
16:16
<alkisg_web>
Yup
16:16
Above the "select backend" menu
16:18
<FrozenZia>
Nothing there. There was the first time I logged on to a client - I picked language and lubuntu or something...
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16:19
<FrozenZia>
lower left corner says "settings", clik that to get the backend question, etc...
16:20
On the positive side, I now also have Epoptes installed and it seems to look good!
16:20
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg_web, does ltsp-pnp do mkswap nowadays by default? My client hangs for a minute or so at startup with some mkswap stuff...
16:21
<alkisg_web>
swap is automatically enabled for clients with < 800 ram for thin, or 2 gb ram for fat
16:23
<Hyperbyte>
Ah...
16:24
Okay, I'll leave that.
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16:29
<mench>
I am a 100% newb, though I have spent about a day now reading docs an examples. I am going to set up a new LTSP cluster using Ubuntu. I would like to do Active Directory authentication. My question is this: Do I need to install likewise-open to the root server, or the application servers?
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16:30
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg_web, hrm, even with NBD_SWAP disabled fat client boot takes around 2 minutes or so. Any idea what could cause this? It's not outputting text, not even when quiet splash is disabled
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16:31
<alkisg_web>
Hyperbyte: check dns and /etc/fstab
16:33
<Hyperbyte>
Also, it's not displaying plymouth. Any idea why? :)
16:34
Hrm, plymouthd error in vt7... assertion terminal something failed....
16:34
<alkisg_web>
It's because I removed plymouth=force_splash for 14.04, and I couldn't leave it for 12.04 on the ppa
16:35
That assertion was always there, ignore it
16:39
<Hyperbyte>
Can I enable plymouth?
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16:40
<Hyperbyte>
DNS is fine by the way, so is fstab. Weirdness....
16:43
A-ha... it says "Waiting for network configuration". Could this be because I excluded /etc/network/interfaces file from image?
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17:03
<FrozenZia>
alkisg_web: Ah, had LDM_FORCE_SESSION in lts.conf
17:04
...And now I switched to xterm I was able to log in student002.
17:04
...now if only I understood why, but I expect someone will tell me...
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17:47
<smurillo>
Hi!
17:48
I'm a begginer in this LTSP thing and I need somebody to give me a first guide or a light where I can search for detailed information
17:49
where can I get trustful information about the hardware compatible with LTSP and Ubuntu...
17:49
specifically HP t410 AiO
17:49
thanks!
17:57
<FrozenZia>
Welcome, smurillo! Sure you've already been here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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18:00
<FrozenZia>
At least following ahardware-related link there got me to the HP k410 AiO, but holy moley do you really need to spend that kind of money (Starting at: $ 449.00)?
18:02
<mench>
I am a 100% newb, though I have spent about a day now reading docs an examples. I am going to set up a new LTSP cluster using Ubuntu. I would like to do Active Directory authentication. My question is this: Do I need to install likewise-open to the root server, or the application servers?
18:02
<smurillo>
Hi Frozenzia
18:02
I Have a local provider that can get me a special price
18:03
also what I want to do is a small lab with 5 or 6 terminals using edubuntu and canonical landscape
18:04
(did you mean K410 or was it a typo?)
18:05
I also was looking for logic suply and lucida tech, but the shipping is expensive from china :S
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18:10
<FrozenZia>
Typo. I'm on a different keyboard than I normally use. Unfort. I'm still pretty new at all this as well, but I'd guess you could outfit your entire lab with reused hw for $450. Something to consider. Not sure all your requirements, but Epoptes may handle your landscape stuff for you...
18:17
<smurillo>
epoptes, as far as I know, works locally, I need to control remotely my servers... and I can't use reused or refurbished equipment because is a goverment project :(
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18:29
<vagrantc>
smurillo: as long as the hardware can PXE boot, and can run the distro you want to run, it should work fine with LTSP
18:31
smurillo: the hp t410 appears to be arm based ... which i'd be very interested in as a thin client, but i wouldn't recommend for someone new to LTSP...
18:31
smurillo: you really would want an x86 based thin client
18:32
smurillo: unless you're willing to experiment, and possibly have the experiment not work out.
18:32* vagrantc would be interested in seeing how the hp t410 work for ltsp
18:33
<vagrantc>
smurillo: but HP's zero-client stuff is desgined to work without LTSP... basically as an alternative to LTSP
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18:33
<vagrantc>
i.e. the whole OS is on flash on the client
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18:40
<smurillo>
jummm I see...
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18:42
<smurillo>
T410 has PXE boot, so I'm going to talk to my distributor to get a demo and make some tests, trusting in what you said...
18:43
I still have a couple months to make tests and show results to my company...
18:45
<vagrantc>
smurillo: an ARM based option will be an ordeal with LTSP ...
18:45
so i would only suggest that if you really wanted a difficult project
18:46* vagrantc forgets that some arm systems claim PXE support, although often it's not *really* PXE, just some form of network booting
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19:00
<smurillo>
I've been looking for prices, but those thinclients are a little xpensive... this has de advantage to be an AiO... but, as said, I can borrow a couple of them and make some tests. I promise I'll put my results and or questions here!
19:00
thanks for the help!
19:10
<vagrantc>
AiO ?
19:11
what's "an AiO" ?
19:11
<smurillo>
all in one
19:11
<vagrantc>
ah
19:11
<smurillo>
is a monitor with an embedded thinclient
19:11
<vagrantc>
right
19:12
<smurillo>
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/thin-client-solutions/t410.html#tab-graphics-specs
19:18
<FrozenZia>
Totally dissatisfying remedy to my student login problem: Login once from safe mode xterm, immediately afterward from lubuntu session (from same client), and after that login seems to work from anywhere w/no more problems. WHY? =oO
19:19
Didn't get a chance to test it much, just got all my 8 students logged in in all the right modes..
19:21* FrozenZia ready for a relaxing evening.....
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20:16
<FrozenZia>
alkisg: welcome back -- got my students to login finally, just don't have a clue why. I just posted this explanation here before you came back - my apologies to the channel for repeating this:
20:16* alkisg can read the irclogs.. :)
20:16
<FrozenZia>
remedy to my student login problem: Login once from safe mode xterm, immediately afterward from lubuntu session (from same client), and after that login seems to work from anywhere w/no more problems.
20:17* FrozenZia missed not pasting that text by *that* much!
20:17
<alkisg>
cat .dmrc for one of those users
20:18
<FrozenZia>
I'm back at home, now, of course, but will do tomorrow.
20:19
<alkisg>
It sounds like it's selecting the wrong session at first login, did you specify LDM_SESSION?
20:21
<FrozenZia>
Hmmm - I had LDM_FORCE_SESSION before, which explained why I wasn't seeing a menu to let me select sessions.
20:21
Not sure about LDM_SESSION.
20:22
<vagrantc>
i think LDM_FORCE_SESSION effectively behaves the same as LDM_SESSION, except it also hides the menu
20:22
<alkisg>
And what was its value?
20:23
<FrozenZia>
/usr/bin/startlubuntu
20:23
<alkisg>
It should be "lubuntu", afaik
20:24
ls /usr/share/xsessions on a lubuntu machine, to make sure
20:24* vagrantc grumbles about breaking backwards compatibility with LDM_SESSION ages ago
20:26
<FrozenZia>
alkisg: will do.
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22:49
<Leolo_3>
ha! ACPI shutdown is failing
22:50
it does a shutdown -h now, which does a "normal" shutdown, which does service network stop, which of course then prevents NFS from doing anything useful
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22:52
<Leolo_3>
(CentOS btw)
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23:06
<Leolo_3>
and even if I fix that... when service rpcbind stop gets run, things then stop again
23:09
<Hyperbyte>
Leolo_3, why bother going through the motions?
23:10
Just poweroff the thing... :)
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23:46
<Leolo_3>
I don't know
23:46
is that what other distros do?